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'Tight' control of you toon; most underrated part from the developers?
chrisel
Member UncommonPosts: 990
After posting a bit here recently, I have even managed to ignite flames when I have brought up how 'tight' the control of my toon is in one certain MMO. I will not debate that certain MMO, but I have started to think about this in a wider perspective though.
Do the control of our avatars have bigger impact on our general feeling towards the MMO's we play than we maybe realizes? I have been an MMO nomad for a long time now, after quitting that certain MMO over a year ago. Since then I have tried only a few different MMO's, which is very unlike my earlier behavior during the beginning of the 2000's when I bought about every new release.
What I end up disliking in every single one of them MMO's I try to substitute, is the lack of 'tight' control; the feeling of actually being in 'full' control of my avatar. In the worst end, some MMO's have given me the feeling more of sailing a boat, than driving a sports car as my favored MMO does. It is either casting time on spells that takes ages (and is utterly boring), or there is some sort of 'lag', or even a stupid jump where when you land, I completely stop. In some MMO's I have little or no ability to break my current castings too, which is frustrating.
So, is this actually a field that is too neglected by the gaming developers, a field underrated how important it is to us gamers? I can only speak for myself here obviously, but I am now more 'aware' that this is actually/maybe that part that drives me back to my favored MMO time after time.
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I can give you an example:
Some years ago, I introduced a friend of mine to WoW, even though he begged me not to, cause he was sure that he would be addicted. (Shame on me, cause he did). After he got addicted to WoW, he became very reluctant to try out new/other MMO's. I finally managed to get him to try Anarchy Online. This was my very first MMO, and I still love it, so I thought I would introduce him to what I saw as the first modern MMO. Nostalgic feelings were kicking in.... 
Well. We started out on newbie island, both playing here at my home. (This AO session would prolly be too short if I did not have him by my side due to the complexity of the game). Newbie Island! I was actually truly amazed to see how much he struggled with his toon. His face was just some weird grim expressions while biting his teeth together when he tried to have control over his toon. He failed. Utterly. His toon was spinning, he could not even get into the sit/stand keys. Needless to say, this session was over in 1 hr. He went back to World of Warcraft.
In many ways, I can not blame him. His first gaming skills comes from Counter Strike and other FPS like games. If you start with them, it is quite easy to get into the WoW way of controlling your toons. I do even myself find controlling my toons in Anarchy Online very hard from time to time.
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I am personally quite surprised that there can be released real good games which fails to deliver on the control of toon part. If the feeling of 'toon-control' fails to deliver, I really have started to wonder if the whole game can be a fail. Just because of that little part.
If we look upon cars, and take that as comparison, even though comparing cars to MMO's is wrong, I would say that no matter how much extra HP, acceries, color, tires & rim you pack on the car, in the end it is the feeling you get when you drive it.
Wouldn't that be the same for MMO's? What matter in the end, is how you feel your toon works, how much you are in control of it, that matters?
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Discuss.
Make us care MORE about our faction & world pvp!
Comments
a great comparison actually.
Not much more to add.
I too believe this is a VERY importnt aspect of the mmo, and you're right, developers probably overlook it, and most definately marketing.
It's not a feature you can list on the box, "intuitive controls" has far too many interpretations. And I think a lot of people get so caught up in what you can do in some games that the way your character is controlled is often times not really paid attention to.
The funny part is that it has a large influence on how the game is enjoyed. The game could have all the features I would want, but if controlling my character was frustrating and caused me to jump through hoops, I think I'd be more inclined to return to my old mmo.
So I think I'll bring up another question in relation to this. PC vs. console control for an MMO player. Of course PC is mainstream for MMO, but so many people have different keyboard setups and gaming pads, that there is no real homogenization. Would Console's be a better place for MMOs if gameplay and control was built around the player using a controller? What is more comfortable to you?
MMOs played: Horizons, Auto Assault, Ryzom, EVE, WAR, WoW, EQ2, LotRO, GW, DAoC, Aion, Requiem, Atlantica, DDO, Allods, Earth Eternal, Fallen Earth, Rift
Willing to try anything new
I keep waiting for an mmo to introduce the type of control I had playing Street Fighter so many years ago.
In SF, I could hit an adversary high, low, midsection. I could jump up and kick high or footsweep. But in mmos, I just get a button for some ability that does the same thing with the same animation each time. Bah.
10 years ago I understood because peoploe were on dial up and the computer technology was much more limited. But why now can't I decide to poke the monster in the tummy or try to chop at its feet? Maybe some games have that now but most still don't.
P.S. Coolness points awarded to SacredFool for the Blue Oyster Cult forum avatar.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
I feel it too.
I like the tight controls over other games.
I've always been annoyed at games that force a movement stop when you jump. I understand that its basically a bandaid to fix exploitable mechanics (bunny hopping) in some games. Others it is just pointless. I also hate getting locked into unbreakable actions where a misclick can cause HUGE problems because I cant stop the action.
I totally agree that tight control is a big aspect of enjoying a game that seems like its not always a priority.
I'm having this problem with Allods right now.
I've been a WoW fanboy for a long long time, and when jumping in Allods i just cringe.. Jumping feels so much better in WoW, i dont know how to explain.
Besides that I'm loving Allods though, It's great.
About the casting times, they are OK or even wished for when there are some thought out mechanics involved such as interrupting. Casting time also strikes some depth into spells, an additional attribute, if you will. Interrupting spells brings a new and welcome dynamic to the combat. Casting times are purely a design choice.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
Wow has probably the best control of your characters of any game, the moving, running, walking,flying etc etc anything is smooth as hell, this is why other mmo's just fail they forget to add the level of detail blizzard adds into the games. Combat responsivness is amazing, moving, standing anything related to player controls and repsonivness in wow second to none. Slag blizzard of for some things, but never ever slag them of for the detail they put into the repsovnss of all thier games, this is why their games are played by millions. On the other had look at warhammer its player resposivness and controls are bloody piss poor.
The control of my character is what gets me into allods the most, haha. Although I haven't tried jumping much...
Its also why LOTRO never worked for me, the movement was above average but combat felt so unresponsive. Other, recent, AAA mmo's also haven't gotten the movement or the combat response down 'perfectly' and that simply stops me from playing.
Responsiveness and great control are the cornerstone of a good action/adventure game. No matter how good the graphics, story or concepts are, if the character doesn't control and feel "right", I can't play the game. But to be honest, I've never played a game that was amazing yet controlled like crap. If the control is lousy, it all falls apart and its pretty obvious the developer doesn't have the greatest handle on other features.
I'll agree with this.
The Turbine Engine is especially suspect when it comes to having a flighty character that doesn't feel like he is grounded in their environment.
WAR featured avatar movement that was jerky and tiresome.
Unless you are, for whatever reason, going for a ultra realistic MMO where plate mail slows you down, WoW's controls need to be seen as the industry standard, because if you can't achieve that level of polish in basic movement, it doesn't really say much for your ability to handle the tough stuff.
Some say it was the worst, I say it was the best. I am talking about the controls in FFXI when you had it on "laptop/compact" setting, it took about 1 weeks to get into, but once you had it, it was like having a third arm. Perfect control. I long for another MMO to use those controls
(Crosses fingers for FFXIV)
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Excellent post because it takes balls to talk about WoW here.
WoW has that "it" feeling. It is hard to describe. When your sword hits the other player or mob, the sound, animation and control all hit at the same time and you feel it. You can stop on a dime and make fluid motions without any delays. You feel like you are walking on a ground and not floating.
I totally agree.
This is it. I cant put my finger on it, but tis exactly the way u describe, it like when i hit something with my sword I can just feel it right with my character, same with moving or doing anything. Same thing with casting spells, for example I play a shaman and casting any healing spell just feels, smooth soft and somewhat hypnotic lol. Its even the same thing with BS, when ur at the Anvil, the sound and the hitting of the hammer is just so smooth, just feels natural.
I know what you mean about control. One of the reason's I can never stay in eve for longer than a month is it lacks that sense of control. I always feel detached from my ship. I never got the above posters feeling for combat in wow but movement always felt right in it. AoC's combat control of selecting which direction to attack from was one of the few things I loved about the game too bad the model movements always looked wrong to me.
Odd that you'd say this, as FF11 would be my example of the worst controls ever in a MMORPG. I gave up 30 mins after trying it because the controls were so abyssmal. Even terrible F2P MMOs I've tried haven't forced me to quit that rapidly.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
To be "in control" of your toon does not have anything to do with what the OP perceives it to mean.Being in control means you are TRULY playing a ROLE PLAYING game,that means you set the standards by witch your role playing is done,i cannot think of any game that does this well and ONLY EQ2 has some actual good RPG elements.
IF the game FORCES you into a one dimensional mode of chasing after every single quest for the sole purpose of leveling a number ,that is about a weak a game design as you could possibly make and is actually the furthest thing from being in control.This type of design puts the game in control of your player ,NOT the other way around.
Think about it this way,WHY are you trying to gain a new level?There is ONLY one reason, to gain new spells and abilities,it is NOT so you can chase some new NPC around to get another quest.What do you put into your hotbar?Quest items/icons?NO you put combat icons buffs/enfeebs/abilities/spells this is why you play the game.A game should try it's best to let you play the game in a role playing mode that fits the character you have created.Do NOT blame the game if it does not cater to you,that is selfish, nobody is going to make a game for each individual,it is THEIR game,if you do not like any of the RPG elements then find a game that suits you.
This has been what bothers me about players opinions on games,they are not really telling the truth,they are just conveying an image that JUSTIFIES why they play the game,but in reality the reasons are 99% superficial,weak re sons and actually 100% opposite of being in control of their player.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Wizardry, I get what you are saying but he is talking about movement control, at least I think he is. In the game he champions, WoW, the movements are very fluid, very responsive, like an fps game. That is what he is talking about. I agree with him about the movement but I do like added elements in an mmorpg such as collision detection that wow doesn't have. While it would limit the freedom of movement somewhat I prefer that for more tactical play as a tradeoff.
You missed the point of the thread completely. CONTROL is your hands doing things and your character doing what your hands are telling him to do. Its not about STATS or what you can do. Its HOW you do it. You press a button and something happens. You look at the screen and whatever is happening makes sense. WOW does that better than any other MMO and that was the whole point.
Sorry, in real world land, control means UI and pressing buttons. You're talking about role playing=)
I agree and I would go so far to say that if you have bad controls you have a bad game. I cannot get past bad controls, the rest of your game may be brilliant but if the controls are not there it is basically unplayable.
And it is little things too, like your character reacting a half second after you pressed the button. Having to stop and completely playout an animation before you can do something else. Inaccurate movement etc. It grates on you.
Don't you worry little buddy. You're dealing with a man of honor. However, honor requires a higher percentage of profit
I also like FFXI controls because they were different. I always felt like I was in control of my character. Ive played a lot of mmo's and I think WoW ,LOTRO, Allods, WAR all feel the exact same to me. But apparently ton of people say WoW is the most responsive. So I don't know whats up.
Exactly he missed the whole point of the thread. We are talking about actual physical control. Response time from you moving the mouse with your wrist, etc, etc.
When my toon gets out of line I beat him with a pixelated crowbar.....end of problem.
It's better to lurk in forums and be thought a fool...than to endlessly "Quote" and remove all doubts.
Interesting that you use AO as an example where controls can turn people off from the game. Next to WoW, it's probably the MMO where I've felt the most in control of my character. Mostly because you have so much freedom in positioning the camera. The camera controls are not intuitive, though, and I can see that someone who has mostly played wow and fps games would struggle with them. Hell, if I tried playing AO again now after a 3 year break, it would probably take me an hour or two to get used to the controls.
I do agree that wow is the best MMO on the market when it comes to fluid and responsive controls. It's a bit too fluid for my tastes, but that's a design choice, and Blizzard never strived to make WoW realistic. If a developer started out with something as responsive and fluid as WoW and added realistic physics, I'd probably consider the feel of the controls perfect.
Balance.
New generation MMORPGs have core fundations on Balance.
Thats why "tight" control is enforced.
Its all about having a panoptic model of control, like a prison described by Foucalt in the last centuries.
MMORPGs nowadays are surrounded by panoptism. What that means? It means that everything the ressembles player freedom, is under a leash, under the pan view of the developer. There is nowhere to run or hide, they know everything you are doing, everything you can do.
Thats how they can control the "human factor".
Search for "human factor" and "panoptism". Then search for "UO School of Design Decisions/Philosophy" and "Everquest School of Design Decision".
The games were changed not so a 5 years old could play.
The game were changed not so people with a life could enjoy it.
The games were changed to prevent one player or group of players to destroy the whole system.
Thats why we are treated like criminals by MMORPG companies.
If you give them too much freedom over your toon, they soon discover some kind of exploit that gives them an unfair advantage in combat, and soon everyone becomes hostage of that exploit, then a group of "Leet" players give a "cool" name like
"K-Style" and you know what happens next... If you dont get it, dont repply.
Interesting, you too seem to have missed the entire point of the thread (perhaps partial fault of the OP for using "control" when he meant "controls".)
Panoptism isn't a terribly accurate concept for MMORPG design, even if it's a Player vs. Dev Control issue (which panoptism is related to, but doesn't quite hit full on.)
But the key point that you perhaps miss is that these are not singleplayer games where Player vs. Dev Control can be an interesting discussion. These are MMOs. "Player control" isn't some golden land where you have total control, but rather a shared experience where hundreds/thousands of instinct-driven anonymous lugheads share control over your gameplay experience (which means you actually don't have a whole lot of control overall.) So your game experience is either going to be constructed by a skilled game designer, or by the lugheads.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver