You know people saying you will not be a dedicated healer as a JC or SI? I remember being a shaman in WAR, hybrid dps/healer... guess what, for grouping/raiding I had to be a healer. All of the WAR classes were envisioned as being hybrid to some extent and all of them feel into dps/tank/healer/support when push came to shove.
I'd think two hybrids in War could take the place of a healer (but I don't really know how it was balanced or if there were scaling issues or what).
Anyhow, TOR is a game designed around breaking the Holy Trinity mold. They Devs have stated they don't want that. So unlike War, which wasn't designed to avoid that, TOR will be different. For one, there aren't going to be ANY classes in TOR that can spam heals. That just can't happen. Hence the combat will be balanced around fewer heals and so it should work out just fine.
Does it 'feel' like star wars. The feeling has to be there.. that includes visuals, skills, sound.. but it does not have to be exactly like in the movies or comic books. Movie cannon would get changed in the blink of an eye if the camera couldn't show it properly. The same goes for game systems... as long as it does not distract (ie: halo's and fairy wings in SWG.. god help me...) and as long as the game remains 'on-theme'... I am not overly concerned about Bioware's ability to create the right SW feeling. The trailer still gives me a thrill.
Is it fun to play. I don't care about every little detail.. who uses what sabre style.. so long as the styles/choices are fun to play. If two hard-coded factions can be made fun to play, then thats fine with me. In the end I am not concerned about how many factions or hilt choices I have or don't have.. so long as when I log in.. start my adventure... I can find something exciting to do and participate in the fun with the tools I got.
If every IP game has to live hard & fast by every technical aspect of some made-up, conglomeration of abilties.. then I would bet the very narrow playerbase who 'enjoys' that would not generate enough funds to program even a fraction of the system costs it would take to make it in the first place.
So long as there are no EXTREMES.... force pulling down ISDs... godmoding... silly stuff that is simply not necessary for the game enjoyment... then I can enjoy the game.
You are not a columist, you are a theorists. Your words hold no wieght in my mind, only your status on MMORPG gives your words some meaning. To those that know no better or are too young to see this lore junkies follies don't even waste your time reading this.
ps. Who gives a rats balls about lore as long as the story works and is good? I don't care who can wield a double bladed saber or pull a destroyer down from the sky, if it works great.
pss. Let go of SWG dude it has been 5 years since that game died.
You are not a columist, you are a theorists. Your words hold no wieght in my mind, only your status on MMORPG gives your words some meaning. To those that know no better or are too young to see this lore junkies follies don't even waste your time reading this. 50% speculation + 30% Lore Junky + 20% cry baby = garbage ps. Who gives a rats balls about lore as long as the story works and is good? I don't care who can wield a double bladed saber or pull a destroyer down from the sky, if it works great.
pss. Let go of SWG dude it has been 5 years since that game died.
Don't bother posting anything negative. I did and it was deleted without a word, as well as other posts that were not mine.
Not to mention, mine wasn't nearly as brash so he'll delete this one too.
If you take a universe as fleshed-out as Star Wars (or Star Trek, LoTR, etc) out of the media format it was initially developed in, then some things will, without exception, be lost in the translation for the sake of accessibility, design and straight-up proft. For example, the Sith Warrior seems to be able to tank/DPS, and thus his armour might have been changed to reflect that; rather than flowing, fluid robes which might signal a "slicker" class, such as single-target DPS (for assassin roles). Still, I agree with you in that respect, Sith Warriors should have robes, if only for the sake of sheer badassery.
Regarding double-bladed lightsabers, I think that they don't fit from a design perspective either. Why does the Inquisitor (who seems to be a Mage, to draw a vague parallel) have a powerful, heavy-hitting weapon? Shouldn't the Warrior classes have access to them instead? Just my opinion there, we'll see how it affects gameplay at launch.
To be honest, we can't really apply much Lucas-created lore here, as any lore from the Old Republic era would be based on KOTOR (since lore from the period was sparse at the time); meaning that BioWare are largely working off their own lore here. I'd rather they did their own thing (but kept it reconisable as Star Wars) and wove a compelling story rather than sticking rigidly to all the lore and putting out a wooden storyline on par with most of the generic trash in MMOs. Don't get me wrong, I like MMOs, just think that the stories need serious work, and if BioWare can do it, then lore be damned.
"Smacking kids doesn't hurt them, kinetic energy does!"- Doctor Tobia
FIrst off, on the whole dual wielding thing. This is something the whiners in SWG have asked for and for a long time. Bioware did this just because they knew it would attract those players immediately. This should give you an idea as to the real market for this game as well.
Why so much Jedi? If you have to ask then you must be dumb and blind. Jedi or Sith are the two classes the general public is interested in. Lets face it, the name of the game here is money short term. That is all the current staff at LA are looking for atm. IMHO. Bioware is not going to argue in times like these.
The game will be as flat and early released at STO. IE, it will need another year of development to complete, at a minimum.
Also must take note that design decisions are going to theme part type layouts because it is much more adaptable to the game consoles and the mind set of those players.
The Force Unleashed was a technology deomonstration and a marketing approach that will begin to dominate MMOs. IE, if the game does not have the capability to transistion to the console market, it will not be of interest to investors.
You are not a columist, you are a theorists. Your words hold no wieght in my mind, only your status on MMORPG gives your words some meaning. To those that know no better or are too young to see this lore junkies follies don't even waste your time reading this. 50% speculation + 30% Lore Junky + 20% cry baby = garbage ps. Who gives a rats balls about lore as long as the story works and is good? I don't care who can wield a double bladed saber or pull a destroyer down from the sky, if it works great.
pss. Let go of SWG dude it has been 5 years since that game died.
I totally agree with you Pink.
MMOs is a balance trick for companies and their owners to make things work, appeal to as much as possible and make wads of cash.
Did I have fun in force unleashed? YES! it served the purpose of what it was for.
What my concern is with the "geeks" and "star wars fan boys" is that they think they know better than anyone else. What their problem is, is that Mr Lucas didnt create SW for them but for everyone and Mr Lucas didnt make them apostles or Champions of his Story. Do you know, who Lucas trusts? the ones that will assure him to get a piece of the Pie from the earnings. So who cares if the consular wields the double bladed and the sith warrior seems to emulate vader. Is not your "take on star Wars", if you are so bent on getting your dreams crushed by Bioware, get your own freaking team of editors. animators, copy writers, producers, concept artists, etc and oh yeah and someone to financially support you and believe your BS, until then, you are no different than the rest of us here waiting on SWTOR with your "concerns".
Just Believe in Bioware or GTFO.
GAUCHO MMO experience: -SWG 3 years -WoW 4 years Currently playing: -Runes of Magic -Warhammer Online -Mabinogi
You are not a columist, you are a theorists. Your words hold no wieght in my mind, only your status on MMORPG gives your words some meaning. To those that know no better or are too young to see this lore junkies follies don't even waste your time reading this. 50% speculation + 30% Lore Junky + 20% cry baby = garbage ps. Who gives a rats balls about lore as long as the story works and is good? I don't care who can wield a double bladed saber or pull a destroyer down from the sky, if it works great.
pss. Let go of SWG dude it has been 5 years since that game died.
I totally agree with you Pink.
MMOs is a balance trick for companies and their owners to make things work, appeal to as much as possible and make wads of cash.
Did I have fun in force unleashed? YES! it served the purpose of what it was for.
What my concern is with the "geeks" and "star wars fan boys" is that they think they know better than anyone else. What their problem is, is that Mr Lucas didnt create SW for them but for everyone and Mr Lucas didnt make them apostles or Champions of his Story. Do you know, who Lucas trusts? the ones that will assure him to get a piece of the Pie from the earnings. So who cares if the consular wields the double bladed and the sith warrior seems to emulate vader. Is not your "take on star Wars", if you are so bent on getting your dreams crushed by Bioware, get your own freaking team of editors. animators, copy writers, producers, concept artists, etc and oh yeah and someone to financially support you and believe your BS, until then, you are no different than the rest of us here waiting on SWTOR with your "concerns".
Just Believe in Bioware or GTFO.
Whoah. Mate, calm down, I think that Mr. Bitton was just expressing his personal concerns about TOR, and why it might not be the game for him, as a Star Wars nerd. I agree, George Lucas probably isn't all that bothered with keeping every single shred of the lore intact, as long as it remains more or less connected with the universe and the IP will sell. Still, try and avoid dismissing the opinions of lore geeks, some of it is genuinely fascinating, and if someone fundementally alters a story that you love it can be very, very annoying.
I also had a lot of fun in The Force Unleashed, and I'd like another game based around "kicking ass with the Force", purely because I think that there's a hell of a lot of potential for an awesome telekinetic-power-driven fighting game. Obviously, Mr. Bitton doesn't agree, and we should respect that. The column is his own opinion, he's not trying expressly to stop us, as consumers, from buying TOR when it launches. Personally, I like what I've seen so far, and if they put up a limited lifetime sub, then I'd be one of the first in line for one.
Concerning double-bladed sabers, I agree with the article, but from a gameplay point of view rather than lore. Just saying, after seeing Darth Maul wield a dual-bladed lightsaber, I think that a weapon that powerful should go to a class under the Tank/DPS archetype rather than the Mage. Just saying. I mean, I wouldn't want to see an overpowered force-user, but on the other hand it would suck to see double-bladed sabers get nerfed because the Mage class is using them.
But still, as I said before, we can't really complain about the lore here, as all of the fundemental aspects of SW seem to be in place, and, to be honest, there isn't all that much official, Lucas-produced information on this period. Most of the info on the Old Republic era was actually created by BioWare for KOTOR. I think I saw an interview with a member of Bioware who stated that they actually enjoyed working on KOTOR because they could create so much of the lore themselves, and it let them shape a better story around the lore. So this is essentially BW working off their own backstory. They've shown us that they can create some of the best emotionally-driven experiences out there, and now they're returning to a universe which they essentially defined. It's already been stated by BW that there'll be enough content in TOR for another five KOTOR games.
And, let's be fair, BioWare have never, ever created a bad game. Fine, ME2 has divided the fanbase a bit, but it's not a bad game by any stretch of the imagination. I, for one, think that we should put our concerns aside and just focuse on being very, very excited. I know I am.
"Smacking kids doesn't hurt them, kinetic energy does!"- Doctor Tobia
You are not a columist, you are a theorists. Your words hold no wieght in my mind, only your status on MMORPG gives your words some meaning. To those that know no better or are too young to see this lore junkies follies don't even waste your time reading this. 50% speculation + 30% Lore Junky + 20% cry baby = garbage ps. Who gives a rats balls about lore as long as the story works and is good? I don't care who can wield a double bladed saber or pull a destroyer down from the sky, if it works great.
pss. Let go of SWG dude it has been 5 years since that game died.
Don't bother posting anything negative. I did and it was deleted without a word, as well as other posts that were not mine.
Not to mention, mine wasn't nearly as brash so he'll delete this one too.
Step back a second. Use that thing on your head before you make a fool out of yourselves. If you think about it, far too many of these MMO's get way over lauded all the time. Sure we know the Star Wars IP is sacrosanct with you. That does not mean that Bioware is going to do any better than any of these other developers with the game.
Bioware has zero experience producing a MMO, while they do produce excellent rpg games, that is not enough reason to give them a blank cheque.
The critique by the author express his doubts about the game from the information we have seen about it so far. It looks to most of us like a scripted linear MMO with a good story line, but with very little flexibility in doing your own thing in the game. Maybe you are lazy and want the game to guide you through the levels. Many of us like challenge. This game as it appears now from the information provided seems to have very little of that.
Hey, if you like that type of game, have at it, but you will have to expect criticism from those of us who actually like challenge in a MMO.
You're right there, and that worries me a bit. Story-driven is all good, until you realise that everything you do is meaningless within the context of the game. Having said that, this seems to be aiming for the WoW-esque market, and there's plenty of room for story improvements there. To be honest, the only MMOs in which player interaction matters seem to be the ones that store all their players on one server. Think about it; EVE and Face of Mankind are both examples of games that are shaped by player interaction, and every big decision made by faction leaders and members affects the entire player base; thus players actually wield power. Face of Mankind, I believe, is a particularly good example of this, as it still has a small enough player base to allow friendly communities to exist within the factions. For example, EVE's mega-corporations are normally massive affairs where it takes weeks to contact your CEO or address a problem, in FoM I can talk to my faction leader daily, and we all work together (I'm in the military faction) as a co-ordinated outfit, partly because we all know each other.
TOR seems to be aiming for linear, story-focused gameplay, and that's something that BioWare do well. If they step out of their comfort zone so much as to add features like capturable, faction-controlled planets, faction decisions being driven by players, and hundreds of thousands of players per server, they'll either become RPG gods, or fail spectacularly. And some things are too ambitious for even BioWare to tackle at once. Let's not forget that this is their first MMO project, and that they don't do free-form games. Their stories are awesome, and they feature quite a large element of player choice, but you're basically trying to get from point A to point B.
So far, we haven't managed to take the concept of player freedom and sandbox gameplay and put a meaningful story into the mix, and I get the feeling it'll be a long time before that's possible, if it ever is. So if BioWare are pushing for an ultimately linear (albeit choice-filled), story-driven MMO, then so be it. You want sandbox, sorry mate, play EVE. Now that is one tough son of a bitch.
Mortal Online also looks good. Or we could just wait for the inevitable Elder Scrolls RPG.
"Smacking kids doesn't hurt them, kinetic energy does!"- Doctor Tobia
ToR is not going to be the SWG replacement everyone is hoping for. It will be DA with blasters. That's not a bad thing but it is a far cry from what many are looking for in an MMO. The heavy reliance of Jedi only demostrates LA's opinion that everything should revolve around that character type. The old days of the original trilogy and its non-reliance on "Jedi" is long gone.
The sad truth is SWG will remain one of the leading "sandbox" style games despite it's "setbacks".
Or you can stick with WAR or AoC or STO or any of the other themepark trainwrecks out there today.
Mr. Bitton hit the nail on the head with his comment about the lack of a third, neutral smuggler/crime faction. I heartily agree with this. A third faction that could go either way was one of the critical elements that made DAoC a fantastic RvR and PvP game. A third faction provides a whole additional layer of complexity to the meta game. Two factions gets predictable and boring (as evidenced by Warhammer online) and can lead to massive population imbalances.
The problem with all these critiques, is that most of the fellas here are bringing out examples of certain features other games that were released already and published, yet swtor is not out, and people are saying, swtor should be like this game and have this from this game, etc, etc. Most of the fanboys here are eyaculating way to early with their misconceptions.
You know very little about the game or as much as everyone else.
As far as bioware not having any experience with MMOs. That is the most absurd observation I have read yet. If you consider yourself a serious person, I would retract that.
So if Bioware, a large brand in games, makes huge mistake in the process of making the game, you think they gonna say: OH sorry, this is our first time. That would sound at best too Tiger Woods like. First of all, the list for successful MMO out there, is at best very short, extremely short. Second, the companies that made it there, did not have huge amount of experience in MMO design and they made their game better over a large period of time acquiring that experience.
Don't come here and say Bioware has no experience making mmo because they have rather a solid and successful foundation of making a mmo, which is designing RPGs, which is what mmo's are in a large scale, thus the name of this website.
Obviously whoever said that did not stop to think really what Bioware has under their belt. Your minute amount of knowledge of Bioware is comparable to what you know of swtor.
GAUCHO MMO experience: -SWG 3 years -WoW 4 years Currently playing: -Runes of Magic -Warhammer Online -Mabinogi
I enjoyed the article and appreciate some of the points raised, but as far as I have seen with IPs that have followings such as Star Wars does- regardless of what errors Bioware may make with the canon players will ruin the experience far more than the game itself will. It seems more and more since WoW was released that the majority of people playing MMORPGs just don't care about staying true to the role they play. Eventually RP-preferred servers wind up flooded with "lols" and "pwning;" completely ruining any immersion that could have been found. I doubt Bioware will have any dynamics in game to dissuade people from this attitude.
I enjoyed the article and appreciate some of the points raised, but as far as I have seen with IPs that have followings such as Star Wars does- regardless of what errors Bioware may make with the canon players will ruin the experience far more than the game itself will. It seems more and more since WoW was released that the majority of people playing MMORPGs just don't care about staying true to the role they play. Eventually RP-preferred servers wind up flooded with "lols" and "pwning;" completely ruining any immersion that could have been found. I doubt Bioware will have any dynamics in game to dissuade people from this attitude.
You can't disuade people from saying "lol" on the internet. All you can do is replace it to automatically /emote laugh, instead. Which is fine with me. But... I doubht thats going to happen in Most any MMO, let alone TOR.
But as far as controlling player appearances to make them look more appropirate to the IP enviroment that they're within... Bioware has 100% control over that and are failing at it.
SWTOR's character models are a joke, their outfits are the most gawdy and odd looking ever to hit a Star Wars game and the animations in the game look absolutely wretched. Dragon Age wretched.
TOR will have a good story, the rest about it will be a serious snooze. THATS Bioware games.
hmm, it's a good article and well written, and wasn't too bad to read..
however, i'm afraid i don't share any of these concerns or views.
pretty much all of what you said was basically lore and continuity stuff, something Bioware isn't known for keeping completely in line for.. it's what makes them a vastly original company. i for one, am pleased by this approach.
i mean you have to remember, Starwars may have started of "just a movie" but it has developed into an entire THEME now.. and that's what this game's theme is going to be.
it's not going to be a complete retelling of stories, a rehash of old games, adventures from the books or scenes from the movies.. it's going to be something completely new and original, set under a known theme. I think Bioware are making the right move.
To give some perspective, i'm increasingly becoming disappointed with Lord of the Rings Online because it just feels like Tolkien Enterprises are completely hamstringing them and disallowing any original thought. PvP, mount system, raid system and class system (and other stuff) suffer as a result and everything is becoming a little stale in that game now.
This isn't to say I'm hoping to see the disaster that was SWG (post NGE) but I think games/companies entirely dedicated to continuity and lore really hamstring themselves and am pleased Bioware is looking to reinvent the wheel as it were on all levels.
TThe heavy reliance of Jedi only demostrates LA's opinion that everything should revolve around that character type. The old days of the original trilogy and its non-reliance on "Jedi" is long gone.
Comments
I'd think two hybrids in War could take the place of a healer (but I don't really know how it was balanced or if there were scaling issues or what).
Anyhow, TOR is a game designed around breaking the Holy Trinity mold. They Devs have stated they don't want that. So unlike War, which wasn't designed to avoid that, TOR will be different. For one, there aren't going to be ANY classes in TOR that can spam heals. That just can't happen. Hence the combat will be balanced around fewer heals and so it should work out just fine.
There is only two rules I will judge SW-TOR by...
If every IP game has to live hard & fast by every technical aspect of some made-up, conglomeration of abilties.. then I would bet the very narrow playerbase who 'enjoys' that would not generate enough funds to program even a fraction of the system costs it would take to make it in the first place.
So long as there are no EXTREMES.... force pulling down ISDs... godmoding... silly stuff that is simply not necessary for the game enjoyment... then I can enjoy the game.
SWG/STO/(SWTOR)
I love listen to/ reading from fans that are even geekier than I am as they pick out the little details
/nods to above comments
All I can to do is be clear of expectations and hope for the best.
You are not a columist, you are a theorists. Your words hold no wieght in my mind, only your status on MMORPG gives your words some meaning. To those that know no better or are too young to see this lore junkies follies don't even waste your time reading this.
50% speculation + 30% Lore Junky + 20% cry baby = garbage
ps. Who gives a rats balls about lore as long as the story works and is good? I don't care who can wield a double bladed saber or pull a destroyer down from the sky, if it works great.
pss. Let go of SWG dude it has been 5 years since that game died.
-----------------------
...I'm in your panties
Don't bother posting anything negative. I did and it was deleted without a word, as well as other posts that were not mine.
Not to mention, mine wasn't nearly as brash so he'll delete this one too.
If you take a universe as fleshed-out as Star Wars (or Star Trek, LoTR, etc) out of the media format it was initially developed in, then some things will, without exception, be lost in the translation for the sake of accessibility, design and straight-up proft. For example, the Sith Warrior seems to be able to tank/DPS, and thus his armour might have been changed to reflect that; rather than flowing, fluid robes which might signal a "slicker" class, such as single-target DPS (for assassin roles). Still, I agree with you in that respect, Sith Warriors should have robes, if only for the sake of sheer badassery.
Regarding double-bladed lightsabers, I think that they don't fit from a design perspective either. Why does the Inquisitor (who seems to be a Mage, to draw a vague parallel) have a powerful, heavy-hitting weapon? Shouldn't the Warrior classes have access to them instead? Just my opinion there, we'll see how it affects gameplay at launch.
To be honest, we can't really apply much Lucas-created lore here, as any lore from the Old Republic era would be based on KOTOR (since lore from the period was sparse at the time); meaning that BioWare are largely working off their own lore here. I'd rather they did their own thing (but kept it reconisable as Star Wars) and wove a compelling story rather than sticking rigidly to all the lore and putting out a wooden storyline on par with most of the generic trash in MMOs. Don't get me wrong, I like MMOs, just think that the stories need serious work, and if BioWare can do it, then lore be damned.
"Smacking kids doesn't hurt them, kinetic energy does!"- Doctor Tobia
FIrst off, on the whole dual wielding thing. This is something the whiners in SWG have asked for and for a long time. Bioware did this just because they knew it would attract those players immediately. This should give you an idea as to the real market for this game as well.
Why so much Jedi? If you have to ask then you must be dumb and blind. Jedi or Sith are the two classes the general public is interested in. Lets face it, the name of the game here is money short term. That is all the current staff at LA are looking for atm. IMHO. Bioware is not going to argue in times like these.
The game will be as flat and early released at STO. IE, it will need another year of development to complete, at a minimum.
Also must take note that design decisions are going to theme part type layouts because it is much more adaptable to the game consoles and the mind set of those players.
The Force Unleashed was a technology deomonstration and a marketing approach that will begin to dominate MMOs. IE, if the game does not have the capability to transistion to the console market, it will not be of interest to investors.
I totally agree with you Pink.
MMOs is a balance trick for companies and their owners to make things work, appeal to as much as possible and make wads of cash.
Did I have fun in force unleashed? YES! it served the purpose of what it was for.
What my concern is with the "geeks" and "star wars fan boys" is that they think they know better than anyone else. What their problem is, is that Mr Lucas didnt create SW for them but for everyone and Mr Lucas didnt make them apostles or Champions of his Story. Do you know, who Lucas trusts? the ones that will assure him to get a piece of the Pie from the earnings. So who cares if the consular wields the double bladed and the sith warrior seems to emulate vader. Is not your "take on star Wars", if you are so bent on getting your dreams crushed by Bioware, get your own freaking team of editors. animators, copy writers, producers, concept artists, etc and oh yeah and someone to financially support you and believe your BS, until then, you are no different than the rest of us here waiting on SWTOR with your "concerns".
Just Believe in Bioware or GTFO.
GAUCHO
MMO experience:
-SWG 3 years
-WoW 4 years
Currently playing:
-Runes of Magic
-Warhammer Online
-Mabinogi
I totally agree with you Pink.
MMOs is a balance trick for companies and their owners to make things work, appeal to as much as possible and make wads of cash.
Did I have fun in force unleashed? YES! it served the purpose of what it was for.
What my concern is with the "geeks" and "star wars fan boys" is that they think they know better than anyone else. What their problem is, is that Mr Lucas didnt create SW for them but for everyone and Mr Lucas didnt make them apostles or Champions of his Story. Do you know, who Lucas trusts? the ones that will assure him to get a piece of the Pie from the earnings. So who cares if the consular wields the double bladed and the sith warrior seems to emulate vader. Is not your "take on star Wars", if you are so bent on getting your dreams crushed by Bioware, get your own freaking team of editors. animators, copy writers, producers, concept artists, etc and oh yeah and someone to financially support you and believe your BS, until then, you are no different than the rest of us here waiting on SWTOR with your "concerns".
Just Believe in Bioware or GTFO.
Whoah. Mate, calm down, I think that Mr. Bitton was just expressing his personal concerns about TOR, and why it might not be the game for him, as a Star Wars nerd. I agree, George Lucas probably isn't all that bothered with keeping every single shred of the lore intact, as long as it remains more or less connected with the universe and the IP will sell. Still, try and avoid dismissing the opinions of lore geeks, some of it is genuinely fascinating, and if someone fundementally alters a story that you love it can be very, very annoying.
I also had a lot of fun in The Force Unleashed, and I'd like another game based around "kicking ass with the Force", purely because I think that there's a hell of a lot of potential for an awesome telekinetic-power-driven fighting game. Obviously, Mr. Bitton doesn't agree, and we should respect that. The column is his own opinion, he's not trying expressly to stop us, as consumers, from buying TOR when it launches. Personally, I like what I've seen so far, and if they put up a limited lifetime sub, then I'd be one of the first in line for one.
Concerning double-bladed sabers, I agree with the article, but from a gameplay point of view rather than lore. Just saying, after seeing Darth Maul wield a dual-bladed lightsaber, I think that a weapon that powerful should go to a class under the Tank/DPS archetype rather than the Mage. Just saying. I mean, I wouldn't want to see an overpowered force-user, but on the other hand it would suck to see double-bladed sabers get nerfed because the Mage class is using them.
But still, as I said before, we can't really complain about the lore here, as all of the fundemental aspects of SW seem to be in place, and, to be honest, there isn't all that much official, Lucas-produced information on this period. Most of the info on the Old Republic era was actually created by BioWare for KOTOR. I think I saw an interview with a member of Bioware who stated that they actually enjoyed working on KOTOR because they could create so much of the lore themselves, and it let them shape a better story around the lore. So this is essentially BW working off their own backstory. They've shown us that they can create some of the best emotionally-driven experiences out there, and now they're returning to a universe which they essentially defined. It's already been stated by BW that there'll be enough content in TOR for another five KOTOR games.
And, let's be fair, BioWare have never, ever created a bad game. Fine, ME2 has divided the fanbase a bit, but it's not a bad game by any stretch of the imagination. I, for one, think that we should put our concerns aside and just focuse on being very, very excited. I know I am.
"Smacking kids doesn't hurt them, kinetic energy does!"- Doctor Tobia
Don't bother posting anything negative. I did and it was deleted without a word, as well as other posts that were not mine.
Not to mention, mine wasn't nearly as brash so he'll delete this one too.
Step back a second. Use that thing on your head before you make a fool out of yourselves. If you think about it, far too many of these MMO's get way over lauded all the time. Sure we know the Star Wars IP is sacrosanct with you. That does not mean that Bioware is going to do any better than any of these other developers with the game.
Bioware has zero experience producing a MMO, while they do produce excellent rpg games, that is not enough reason to give them a blank cheque.
The critique by the author express his doubts about the game from the information we have seen about it so far. It looks to most of us like a scripted linear MMO with a good story line, but with very little flexibility in doing your own thing in the game. Maybe you are lazy and want the game to guide you through the levels. Many of us like challenge. This game as it appears now from the information provided seems to have very little of that.
Hey, if you like that type of game, have at it, but you will have to expect criticism from those of us who actually like challenge in a MMO.
You're right there, and that worries me a bit. Story-driven is all good, until you realise that everything you do is meaningless within the context of the game. Having said that, this seems to be aiming for the WoW-esque market, and there's plenty of room for story improvements there. To be honest, the only MMOs in which player interaction matters seem to be the ones that store all their players on one server. Think about it; EVE and Face of Mankind are both examples of games that are shaped by player interaction, and every big decision made by faction leaders and members affects the entire player base; thus players actually wield power. Face of Mankind, I believe, is a particularly good example of this, as it still has a small enough player base to allow friendly communities to exist within the factions. For example, EVE's mega-corporations are normally massive affairs where it takes weeks to contact your CEO or address a problem, in FoM I can talk to my faction leader daily, and we all work together (I'm in the military faction) as a co-ordinated outfit, partly because we all know each other.
TOR seems to be aiming for linear, story-focused gameplay, and that's something that BioWare do well. If they step out of their comfort zone so much as to add features like capturable, faction-controlled planets, faction decisions being driven by players, and hundreds of thousands of players per server, they'll either become RPG gods, or fail spectacularly. And some things are too ambitious for even BioWare to tackle at once. Let's not forget that this is their first MMO project, and that they don't do free-form games. Their stories are awesome, and they feature quite a large element of player choice, but you're basically trying to get from point A to point B.
So far, we haven't managed to take the concept of player freedom and sandbox gameplay and put a meaningful story into the mix, and I get the feeling it'll be a long time before that's possible, if it ever is. So if BioWare are pushing for an ultimately linear (albeit choice-filled), story-driven MMO, then so be it. You want sandbox, sorry mate, play EVE. Now that is one tough son of a bitch.
Mortal Online also looks good. Or we could just wait for the inevitable Elder Scrolls RPG.
"Smacking kids doesn't hurt them, kinetic energy does!"- Doctor Tobia
ToR is not going to be the SWG replacement everyone is hoping for. It will be DA with blasters. That's not a bad thing but it is a far cry from what many are looking for in an MMO. The heavy reliance of Jedi only demostrates LA's opinion that everything should revolve around that character type. The old days of the original trilogy and its non-reliance on "Jedi" is long gone.
The sad truth is SWG will remain one of the leading "sandbox" style games despite it's "setbacks".
Or you can stick with WAR or AoC or STO or any of the other themepark trainwrecks out there today.
Mr. Bitton hit the nail on the head with his comment about the lack of a third, neutral smuggler/crime faction. I heartily agree with this. A third faction that could go either way was one of the critical elements that made DAoC a fantastic RvR and PvP game. A third faction provides a whole additional layer of complexity to the meta game. Two factions gets predictable and boring (as evidenced by Warhammer online) and can lead to massive population imbalances.
The problem with all these critiques, is that most of the fellas here are bringing out examples of certain features other games that were released already and published, yet swtor is not out, and people are saying, swtor should be like this game and have this from this game, etc, etc. Most of the fanboys here are eyaculating way to early with their misconceptions.
You know very little about the game or as much as everyone else.
As far as bioware not having any experience with MMOs. That is the most absurd observation I have read yet. If you consider yourself a serious person, I would retract that.
So if Bioware, a large brand in games, makes huge mistake in the process of making the game, you think they gonna say: OH sorry, this is our first time. That would sound at best too Tiger Woods like. First of all, the list for successful MMO out there, is at best very short, extremely short. Second, the companies that made it there, did not have huge amount of experience in MMO design and they made their game better over a large period of time acquiring that experience.
Don't come here and say Bioware has no experience making mmo because they have rather a solid and successful foundation of making a mmo, which is designing RPGs, which is what mmo's are in a large scale, thus the name of this website.
Obviously whoever said that did not stop to think really what Bioware has under their belt. Your minute amount of knowledge of Bioware is comparable to what you know of swtor.
GAUCHO
MMO experience:
-SWG 3 years
-WoW 4 years
Currently playing:
-Runes of Magic
-Warhammer Online
-Mabinogi
I enjoyed the article and appreciate some of the points raised, but as far as I have seen with IPs that have followings such as Star Wars does- regardless of what errors Bioware may make with the canon players will ruin the experience far more than the game itself will. It seems more and more since WoW was released that the majority of people playing MMORPGs just don't care about staying true to the role they play. Eventually RP-preferred servers wind up flooded with "lols" and "pwning;" completely ruining any immersion that could have been found. I doubt Bioware will have any dynamics in game to dissuade people from this attitude.
You can't disuade people from saying "lol" on the internet. All you can do is replace it to automatically /emote laugh, instead. Which is fine with me. But... I doubht thats going to happen in Most any MMO, let alone TOR.
But as far as controlling player appearances to make them look more appropirate to the IP enviroment that they're within... Bioware has 100% control over that and are failing at it.
SWTOR's character models are a joke, their outfits are the most gawdy and odd looking ever to hit a Star Wars game and the animations in the game look absolutely wretched. Dragon Age wretched.
TOR will have a good story, the rest about it will be a serious snooze. THATS Bioware games.
hmm, it's a good article and well written, and wasn't too bad to read..
however, i'm afraid i don't share any of these concerns or views.
pretty much all of what you said was basically lore and continuity stuff, something Bioware isn't known for keeping completely in line for.. it's what makes them a vastly original company. i for one, am pleased by this approach.
i mean you have to remember, Starwars may have started of "just a movie" but it has developed into an entire THEME now.. and that's what this game's theme is going to be.
it's not going to be a complete retelling of stories, a rehash of old games, adventures from the books or scenes from the movies.. it's going to be something completely new and original, set under a known theme. I think Bioware are making the right move.
To give some perspective, i'm increasingly becoming disappointed with Lord of the Rings Online because it just feels like Tolkien Enterprises are completely hamstringing them and disallowing any original thought. PvP, mount system, raid system and class system (and other stuff) suffer as a result and everything is becoming a little stale in that game now.
This isn't to say I'm hoping to see the disaster that was SWG (post NGE) but I think games/companies entirely dedicated to continuity and lore really hamstring themselves and am pleased Bioware is looking to reinvent the wheel as it were on all levels.
Sadly QFT.