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A question about skills
JoeVertigo
Member UncommonPosts: 37
in Darkfall
I'm potentially interested in trying out DFO, but there's one thing I keep wondering about. Somewhere between the lines I read that to be competitive in PvP you have to be jack of all trades. That'd be a really big turnoff for me, as I value diversity in "classes". That's what bored me in FE eventually - "open" skill system that eventually leads to 3+1 "classes" with some minor modifications and that's less then your average theme park MMO. So is that the case in DFO or not? Could I effectively work on a specialized character and still have the edge in PvP?
Comments
Well you can learn all skills however the time it would take makes this unviable for anyone. So you have to focus, every character should (in my opinion) focus on getting a two handed melee weapon to mastery and Archery to sharpshooter. If you're going to go into magic (and everyone does to some extent) then in my opinion you should pick one elemental school and concentrate on that.
It's just not possible to have everything and even if it were you can only use one weapon at a time in battle so you may as concentrate your efforts on one in each class and learn to fight with that. Different melee weapons have different pros and cons as do different magic schools. Each player can be very different in the style they fight and all these things are factors.
I personally find it very exciting when going into PvP not knowing how or with what they enemy is going to engage me. Armour also comes into this and weapons with elementtal damage. So in my opinion there is great diversity as opposed to your standard MMORPG where you can tell on sight what level/class he is and therefore what his build will be and his abilities and wether you should fight or flee, in DFO you just can't tell.
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
Well you can learn all skills however the time it would take makes this unviable for anyone. So you have to focus, every character should (in my opinion) focus on getting a two handed melee weapon to mastery and Archery to sharpshooter. If you're going to go into magic (and everyone does to some extent) then in my opinion you should pick one elemental school and concentrate on that.
It's just not possible to have everything and even if it were you can only use one weapon at a time in battle so you may as concentrate your efforts on one in each class and learn to fight with that. Different melee weapons have different pros and cons as do different magic schools. Each player can be very different in the style they fight and all these things are factors.
I personally find it very exciting when going into PvP not knowing how or with what they enemy is going to engage me. Armour also comes into this and weapons with elementtal damage. So in my opinion there is great diversity as opposed to your standard MMORPG where you can tell on sight what level/class he is and therefore what his build will be and his abilities and wether you should fight or flee, in DFO you just can't tell.
My only issue with this (I don't play anymore...I did for several months but became frustrated) is the fact that veterans ARE jacks of all trades. You can focus on only one "class" or set of skills (or even two), but unless those are a 2H Weapon Mastery and Magic, you're going to get steamrolled every fight. Sure, you can focus on archery and be an "archer" in large battles, but you won't stand a chance against a "jack of all trades".
"Going Against The Grain Should Be A Way Of Life"
Well "Jack of all Trades" really doesn't apply in Darkfall (at least not in the traditional sense) since you can max every skill/spell in the game. While that is hard max all your skills its not nearly as hard as some people would lead you to believe and it's fairly easy to become "good" in all the different skills (especially not since they upped skill gains).
In my opinion if you really want to be competitive at the high end you need to get a 2H mastery, Witches Brew (self heal) and then a ranged skill (either archery or 1 "advanced" spell line) to max.
Of course it depends a great deal on player skill and what pvp environment you're in at the time. If you're in a large group you can get away with having less/lower skill level than if you were alone or in a small group.
In any situation if you only have melee or one ranged you're going to be in trouble or no help.
I'm getting a mixed message here. On one hand I can specialize in whatever I want, but on the other hand I should get this and that to actually stand a chance in PvP? Is it really that unbalanced? So there's total freedom when it comes to choices on your character build but in reality there's only one good choice? No offense, but that doesn't sound all that great to me...
Well like I said it depends on what all you're going to be doing an what pvp environments you will be in. Specialized characters have more leeway on how useful and strong they are depending on how many people they're with and what activities they're doing.
Someone who only uses melee is going to be at a serious disadvantage against someone who used ranged and melee. The entire time that you, melee, are trying to close the gap on someone using ranged you're going to be taking damage and they're not. Then when and if you finally do catch them they can go toe to toe melee just as well as you can and you're already beat up.
On the other hand if all you use is ranged you will be shooting someone as they're shooting you but as soon as they close the gap to melee they're going to go melee and they're going to have a serious advantage.
Now it used to be that Magic was by far the most powerful way to go but they nerfed AE spells, AE damage, and added some "specializations" which improve your melee or archery at the cost of your magical abilities. This has balanced out the damage types more and made specializing in just 1 skill more viable but you're still going to be at a disadvantage against people who have mastered several skills.
Remember this game has no speed buffs/snares, no auto targeting or anything like that... Also remember that you take extra damage from the back which makes kiting or running away a very dangerous thing.
I take it you've never been hit for 90 points of damage with a bow, then?? I know some BAD ASS archers.
Here's the thing...you can go with the popular mentality of the "jack of all trades" route.....but if you ever meet someone who has really focused their character development, you're going to get smeared.
I know an entire clan who focuses on archery and mounted combat. These guys wipe the floor with "jack of all trades" types...two of them can wipe a group of 7 "vets" without much effort.
OP: Darkfall is what you make it. Don't let people try to tell you that you "need" to do anything.
AV has said they will be adding more specializations in the future.
Its a lot like EvE execpt more people are freighters instead of small ships.
Gear + choosen play style = build. Once the specialization system is flushed out it will be different.
Games:
Currently playing:Nothing
Will play: Darkfall: Unholy Wars
Past games:
Guild Wars 2 - Xpiher Duminous
Xpiher's GW2
GW 1 - Xpiher Duminous
Darkfall - Xpiher Duminous (NA) retired
AoC - Xpiher (Tyranny) retired
Warhammer - Xpiher
Ok, starts to look much better judging after few more posts now. I don't mind the game being hard, but I just don't feel like being ran over by other people in PvP simply because they've played 24/7 for a year. Some of you are saying this is not the issue, so it is a bit of relief for me.
What are the specializations you're speaking of by the way?
Well, the thing is, this is an MMORPG. Character development thus has an impact on how difficult your opponants will be in PVP.
You'll win some, you'll lose some. If you think you're going to take a guy who has played for a year 1 on 1, you're gonna get looted. BUT.....bring some friends, and take him down.
A lot of people with the min/max attitude get caught up on the fact that they can't beat everyone in the game 1 on 1. They spend all their time racing to catch up...this is the wrong attitude, and will only cause frustration. You're not supposed to be able to beat everyone 1 on 1. Heading out into the world looking for solo PVP as a new player will only get you killed....bring friends or join a clan. The game is more fun when played with others anyway....it is, after all, an MMO.
No matter how good you get....there is always a bigger fish.
Now, as far as the specializations.....these are advantages that you can purchase that also carry a "trade off" penalty.
For example, as a melee / archery / heavy armor type player, you may purchase specializations that give you nice bonuses to resist magic, provide you with health bonuses, allow you to double-tap a momevent key to dodge, or "double jump" in mid-air, or give you huge damage bonuses VS casters....however these bonuses come with a cost, such as diminishing your total mana pool, completely locking you out of any elementel / higher magic schools, etc.
Not to mention that heavy armors really hinder your ability to cast magic anyway.
These are not permenant....you can switch at any time (although it is kind of expensive, in gold). This means you are not locked into a "class" forever, but can decide to go a different way with your character as you see fit.
This is just an example...there are all kinds of specializations available for casters, archers, etc.
More will be added this year as AV continues to refine the system even further, leading to even more diversity in character development.
I would say, with my limited experience in the game (about 2 months), that there is an advantage of magic over arcehry. Most people seem to agree that magic rules all in a 1v1 type senario. The big advantages I noticed are is is ranged, it is the ONLY aoe in the game therefore you have to be MUCH less accurate depending on the spell, you can also trap/slowdown/knowckback preventing a melee from getting to you.
I haven't been able to find to many even matches. Someone has either been playing the game A LOT longer then me to the point I can't really hurt them much or I tend to beat them up pretty good.
For even matches it has been my experience, other then on a few occasion, that whom ever gets the jump wins.
I haven't been in any large scale battle, so I can't speak on the end of the game.
As others have mentioned a good group can take down a vet from what I have seen.
But a vet can definately take down a lot of people solo. So, it would need to be a good group.
I can't really comment on focusing on one areas as I haven't been playing the game for that long.
I think you really need about 6 months to get full feel for this game.