i know i have bashed DF in some of my last post but a few days ago i tried it again. messed arround with my video settings, key binds, rerolled a different race, started questing, got a horse , got my horse stollen , got one other horse and now i'm actually liking this game.
i have no problem with higher levels trashing me wile i'm questing or skilling up. in the last 2 days it's only happened twice. it's what i was expecting and you just have to be prepared to loose all that you carry at any given time. the more you carry the more suspense you experience. it's very hardcore, but more importantly THAT is what makes it fun. you'r always looking over your shoulder and trying to not get caught with your pants down. and even then sometimes it just happens.
on the other hand you do have the choice to go gather naked and mostly do it afk as long as you dont mind the chance of getting killed and looted.
you really can't expect to pick up a game like this and have a fair chance at killing every player you encounter right off the bat. on the contrary you should be expecting to get your ass handed to you for at least the first month if not more. just travel light, play smart, stay out of the way, don't wear your best stuff unless you are in a friendly group, ask nearby players if they want to team up for safety, etc. there are already way too many care bear mmos out there were dieing means nothing. not in DF. you die and you loose.....everything you have.
I think the people who say this game in not for casual players are just crazy. I am very casual and so are most of my friends. We have been playing this game for less then a month and we are having a blast. Sure we don't stand a chance against the characters that have been developed for a year but I wouldn't want to. They have put in the time and they should be awesome, it's what inspires me to keep working at it.
Even still we have been seeing our characters growing and getting more capable everyday. Once and a while we even take part in a large Alliance event and we actually make a difference. Even though 90% of the people in the raid could kill us in a few hits and have been playing for 6 months to a year, there is nothing that holds us back from joining them in end game raids or sieges. From Day one we have been able to jump right into everything this game has to offer.
From an MMO players perspective that is undeniably fantastic.
My friends and I all tore Darkfall apart when we first heard of it. We were even ready to mock it when we first decided to play the trial, now we have all Subscribed for 6 months because we can't get enough of it.
Darkfall caters to casuals just fine..it does not however cater to casuals who think they can play casually and then be pvp ready within their first week.
The grind in Darkfall is simplistic, use your skills and they go up, its no real difference than grinding up exp to get to the next level in nameyourgenericmmohere. There are plenty of quests in the game that will send you to various mob spawns at the appropriate times, and if you are still on goblins after a month, then you are doing something horribly wrong.
Back on the grind subject, its fairly easy to level your skills, as long as you concentrate on specific ones and dont try to level everything at once. Some people try to level several weapon types and once as well as several magic types at once with archery thrown in and wonder why it is taking them so long. You should focus on leveling the skills that are best served by what you are fighting. If you are fighting kobolds and goblins, train archery and weapon skills. If you are fighting trolls and akathars, train magery as they always drop regs.
And as for the pvp aspect, what game of this style has ever given a new character a fighting chance against a vet? Thats basically like saying a level 1 in wow should be able to fight a lvl 80...it just doesnt make sense and if a new player could hold his own against a vet in pvp, there would be no real reason to level up your skills.
I can not be happier that they put out the 7 day trial. I would have never of known what I was missing. I subbed as soon as my trial ended and wont look back. Most entertaining game I have played in the past 3 years.
I can not be happier that they put out the 7 day trial. I would have never of known what I was missing. I subbed as soon as my trial ended and wont look back. Most entertaining game I have played in the past 3 years.
the game got released half assed done, but im happy that you find it entertaining , but its also been out for close to a year now so i guess it is about time that the game is somewhat playable.
Yet another whine thread about the grind being to hard for a casual player. DFO is not for casual players. How many times must this be stated before people get the hint. /move along
don't troll the guy though, he was giving his honest review of the game
I can not be happier that they put out the 7 day trial. I would have never of known what I was missing. I subbed as soon as my trial ended and wont look back. Most entertaining game I have played in the past 3 years.
the game got released half assed done, but im happy that you find it entertaining , but its also been out for close to a year now so i guess it is about time that the game is somewhat playable.
Yes it has been out for a year and it is exactly where is should be now. Have you given it another try since it came out? I ask because your response sounds a little bitter.
The game is far beyond "somewhat playable" now, It's freakin' amazing!
With all you wrote I know nothing about you. I don't know what you rolled, how long you played, if you grouped, or really any detail at all. I'm just reading this as a rant by a person making his/her first post for that purpose. Your experience runs contrary to the majority of what others are finding. I also don't believe you had "high hopes", because I see zero effort and if any thing, just a disgruntled newbie who was killed a lot.
With the plethora of other games, I'm sure you'll find one that works for you.
-CC
"Lately it occurs to me, what a long, strange trip it's been". -Hunter
I can not be happier that they put out the 7 day trial. I would have never of known what I was missing. I subbed as soon as my trial ended and wont look back. Most entertaining game I have played in the past 3 years.
the game got released half assed done, but im happy that you find it entertaining , but its also been out for close to a year now so i guess it is about time that the game is somewhat playable.
Yes it has been out for a year and it is exactly where is should be now. Have you given it another try since it came out? I ask because your response sounds a little bitter.
The game is far beyond "somewhat playable" now, It's freakin' amazing!
Actually no i havent given it another look, but most of my old clan mates are still playing DF as the clan Oromea , but from what they tell me on voice comms is that people are getting tired of building up the clan and city again all the time because its fluxuating so much.
And besides im a old 2003 Eve Online player , so thats what im using my time on now / still.
But i won't say im bitter since i have no lust to play the game at all, wasn't what i expected of the game at all and i was waiting for DarkFall for like what 5 years.
With all you wrote I know nothing about you. I don't know what you rolled, how long you played, if you grouped, or really any detail at all. I'm just reading this as a rant by a person making his/her first post for that purpose. Your experience runs contrary to the majority of what others are finding. I also don't believe you had "high hopes", because I see zero effort and if any thing, just a disgruntled newbie who was killed a lot.
With the plethora of other games, I'm sure you'll find one that works for you.
-CC
I rolled a Human, played for about 40 hours over the week trial, I joined the NEW clan and grouped with them when I could. Sorry this is my first post, I've never really felt the need to post on anything else, but as you can see I've been around for awhile. As for my hopes for the game, I had the impression that it would be a player skill based game where anyone could be competative even if their lower level gave them a disadvantage. You certainly got it right about the disgruntled noob getting killed alot though. A total of 5 times within a half hour of losing my noob protection, 3 of those times while at the bank in the NEW city while surrounded by clan mates. Being unimpressed with the gameplay doesn't make my opinion any less valid however.
As for being useful in PvP at a low level, why shouldn't you be? The whole game is based on PvP so why should you only get to do it in a zerg swarm or at a high level? I'm not saying you should be the best or even close to it, however since anyone can attack you at any time it seems pointless to have low level players be absolutely helpless against griefers. Look at the PvP in a game like WAR, clearly they are completely different games, but you can jump right in at any level and be useful which makes sense in a PvP game. I'm not saying that DF adopt any of WAR's gameplay, but being somewhat useful in PvP at any level is nice.
I like the idea behind DF, however certain parts of its most basic gameplay, such as the HP gap, just make it too difficult for low level players to get into especially when some vet players are running around with no other purpose than to gank noobs. Complain about my not being "hardcore" enough, but I love the idea of full loot, full PvP, and the danger of being ambushed at anytime. I have a problem with having the same armor and weapons as someone trying to gank me and still be absolutely defenseless because they've played for a month more than I which ironicly I would accept in a casual non-PvP centric game, but not one where I am open to attack at anytime.
Alright then, I also play EVE and love it. I still play it too and have for a long time, for me Darkfall is my EVE version of a Fantasy MMO. It is my Hardcore, full loot, time spent MMO and I might just have to play them both forever
I'm in the exact same boat as you, and with these two games I'm set till the servers get shut down. I think some folks are coming across as bitter because they simply followed the development of the game far too closely and for far too long. Imagine if you had been intimately following the progress of James Cameron's Avatar for the last 12 years. Clearly you'd be at serious risk of setting yourself up for disappointment. I've seen this kind of behaviour on this site for years, it's not healthy. They are just games.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
As for being useful in PvP at a low level, why shouldn't you be? The whole game is based on PvP so why should you only get to do it in a zerg swarm or at a high level? I'm not saying you should be the best or even close to it, however since anyone can attack you at any time it seems pointless to have low level players be absolutely helpless against griefers. Look at the PvP in a game like WAR, clearly they are completely different games, but you can jump right in at any level and be useful which makes sense in a PvP game. I'm not saying that DF adopt any of WAR's gameplay, but being somewhat useful in PvP at any level is nice.
This seems funny to me, you are another theme park gamer. You think that you are not useful in PvP early on and you use WAR as an example.
Maybe if I explain it to you this way. Think of darkfall as if it were a Scenario in WAR, where a new player is a level 1, veterans are level 9 and people who have played are the level 11's who leveled up in their last T1 scenario. as a level one just entering the game what chance would you have if you took on a Veteran level 9 player who just got access to their first full set of armor and a pile of new abilities? solo. Now if that wasn't bad enough try to kill a level 11. Now I did say this was a scenario which means just because you are a level 1 and the other team has a level 9 or 11 doesn't mean that you lose by default, this is a team game and you will have level 9s and 11s and they will have level 1s. Do you see my point?
The difference here is that Darkfall is not just a PVP game, it is also a PvE game and a heavy crafting game. The cool thing about it is that you can do all at the same time, working in three very different directions and still grow in all areas. You can be that same level one and join those level 11s when fighting a fire dragon (which is an end game PvE monster) and although you wont top the damage charts you can surely share the fun and experience and by the time you are done you will have incredible skill improvements.
In both PvP and PvE you can still be effective at the beginning as well, you can still contribute in many ways. People die all the time and you don't have to be skilled to do it, you can still work on your aim with range from the back line, you can still heal and you can still scout and gather loot from dead corpses.
Also not everyone is amazing and maxed out, sure there are a few jerks who are but most are not. There are tons of people in the same position you are all over the world.
I know you have made your opinions on this game but I hope this helps you see it from another point of view at least so you can move on.
What class could you play and still top the charts and still be a huge
Well, I just hope people finally learn their lesson and/or answered their question as why there was never a UO remake. Simply put, skill based (not level based) games encourage griefing much, much more than your level based MMORPGs. On top of it all, sprinkle open FFA PvP then you got yourself a griefer's paradise. Please don't expect the commercial (aka the ones that actual gain a profit from it) to head back into that realm anytime in the near future.
Next, no EVE is nothing like Darkfall when it comes to game mechanics. EVE's skills are based on a timed function which is actually the safest and best bet (so far) way of eliminating griefing in the character advancement. Not to mention, it actually allows you to compete and also live a life outside your computer, how about that for game design? EVE slightly innovated the way we play MMORPGs, Darkfall went back in time and did UO wrong.
Last but not least, this game is very medicore and faces the same consequences with the graphics pipeline that Vanguard did and still does. Sieges are a complete and utter lagfest with 10FPS, ask anyone in the game.. those that don't, have the magical one system that works with Darkfall. Don't expect any performance to change anytime soon, these guys are well below amateurs.
Conclusions:
- Population is incredibly low -
* I hardly ever see anyone else in the area besides the starter towns - and that is still low!
- Grind is terrible-
* try some of those title quests - 200 iron, 300 stone, 300 timber, 200 fish - oh yeah, try not to get ganked while doing it.
- Combat is not good -
* You can not consecutively swing your 1 hand sword and then block, you must wait three seconds or more in between, when you could've hit them for 3 more times - completely useless.
* Switching between your weapons and staff is a complete pain because of the way you switch from your attack and gui mode, it requires a certain number of clicks for each key to pull off. I don't even think there are macros for this either.
* No need for strategy in your combat, and resting afterwards is dead boring even with food and healing spell. I would compare this combat to SWG NGE.
- Lag -
* After killing a goblin, you can see his body slide across the ground because of the server lag (I have below 100 ping).
* The graphics engine sucks, it cannot handle all computer systems for the life of it (really good systems get shit for FPS while shitty systems are actually coming out on top, reminds me of Vanguard).
*You cannot enable shadows and keep a steady FPS.
*You cannot walk through the chunks of the land and not hit lag spikes even if you have over 100 FPS after the shadows are completely turned off.
*Sieges are complete 10FPS lag fest.. even if you go into it with a solid 100FPS (which shadows off ofcourse).
- Crafting -
* Complete and utter grind with nothing fun to craft in between. Atleast World Of Warcraft had a crafting system that rewards the player plentiful with useful and different objects that actually added a benefit to one's strategy.
* No such thing as unique ore, except for the ones that your city inhabits.
* No such thing as rare recipes.
* You cannot use the gemstones you gain for anything within the game.
* All resource gathering is set up to be to be macro friendly. It is encouraged, given that you don't get ganked while doing so.
- Sieges -
* Cannot breakdown houses, only their doors.
* No building destruction.
- Logout Mechanics -
* Being disconnected with a mount will make your mount disapear (these mounts are expensive for new players and are very rare to get the steedgrass to make one.. also a grind)
* Being disconnected while swimming underwater will kill you and cause you to lose all of your gear and items.
- Community -
* The community is bad and good at different times. However, I have encountered more epeen growing twelve year olds spamming the RA chat with things I could not imagine.
* Clans are not encouraged for new players because of the war declarations immediately placed on them.
I think that sums up this terrible game...
P.S : oh yeah, did you see what the game looks like with all of the shadows off? I have seriously crafted and rendered better landscapes than that with free software (and I'm not a graphics programmer by any means).
I really wanted to believe that Darkfall would be an awesome PvP game, one that relied on twitch based skills as much as player progression, one that allowed you to jump right into the action and defend yourself from or attack any interlopers who crossed you. God how wrong I was. First off, the grind, good god the grind. Skilling up is the most important thing in the game and to achieve skills comperable to those of the average pvper or even of those that run around ganking noobs, you have to go through a ridiculous grind. Now I have no problem with skill progression, but since the whole idea of the game is open, FFA PvP you would think that the playing field would be a bit more even to give lower level players a fighting chance against vets. No such luck. Higher level players will not only have way more offensive and defensive power, which makes sense and would be acceptable, but they can have over twice as much HP as you which when combined with their attack and defense powers means you stand NO chance when you get ganked by some high level griefer which is just great, being completely helpless in a FFA PvP game. It's like spawning into a match of Battlefield 2 with nothing but a spork and a hockey helmet. So your only hope in the lower levels is to scurry off to the middle of nowhere and either afk macro your way up or sit there smacking goblins for a month straight, which in itself is impossible to do without being found since all mobs spawn in nice little predefined areas of which there are very few compared to the world's size. And the griefers most certianly know where these areas are. If you do manage to make it back to a town, or your clan's town should you be in one, to visit the bank you'll have to watch your back the entire time as griefers will also target you in the middle of town. In fact at lower levels you will be targeted by them pretty much everywhere, there are whole clans dedicated to ganking noobs. Now thats not to say everyone hates new players, most high level players will intervene on your behalf should someone try to gank you, but they can't be around all the time and its really just an inconvience for them to have to come save you. The game was touted as a skill based PvP centric MMO, and it delivered. Unforetunetly instead of actual player skill which usually comes into account in FPS games, its stat based, fully and completely, and it focuses so much on PvP that doing anything else is nearly impossible and quite frankly just not enjoyable. Now neither of these are a surprise really, but from the way the game was marketed you would have expected your skill at twitch gaming to be just as important as your player skills and for there to be a few more sandbox elements to compliment the PvP, this is not the case though. Housing, crafting, skill progression, PvP are all seemingly designed to put players off of this game. It's combat is interesting, its world is beautiful, if empty, and the openess and freedom of the game is great, but they don't make up for the failing of the basic gameplay and the staff's uninterested attitude towards the communities demands (check the official forums for countless threads on how unsatisfied it's customers are with the current product). Hopefully Darkfall gets itself sorted out, but as it stands it would need a major overhaul of nearly everyone of its aspects to even resemble a balanced and fun sandbox PvP game.
Seems like you may be one of the people that brought on the NGE in SWG. For me atleast, the same type of stuff was happening when trying to acquire a jedi with a bounty on your head that led to massive xp loss. You have to learn to run and adapt. Once you can skill up more it will get much easier to defend yourself.
I've stuck it out about a month and my character is very strong. It's all about how much time you want to invest and how much you care about being a solo beast in pvp.
We know this, and that`s why we fight against it. Darkfall is a full-loot PVE mmo at the moment, and the best pvpers are the ones that kill most NPC. That`s the flaw in Darkfall, and the reason we have low populated servers. If a player kills 50000 goblins, he is "hardcore" enough to call himself a great pvper. And yes, goblins can do the job just as good as a cairn giant. It`s all about dedication, hard work, time and not about players skill. You all say the same, kill enough NPCs and you will do great in pvp.
And the grind is awful. You can can confirme this by all the "how to maximize you char fast" and "Xiphers hardcore NPC killer guide to get a low level pvp char in two months" posts. Invested time in killing NPC and afk harvest is the core of Darkfall, and it needs to stop while we still have a game.
And all those "team up to fight goblins" og "get two dedicated healer/buffers when you train melee" posts makes me cry blood. The grind is so bad they want you to team up to kill easy, boring mobs. Macroing is by far the fastest way to skill up any skill, no matter what anyone say. AV need to make the pvp skills/stats easy to get, and they can keep the crafting part slow for the level guys.
But the NPC grinders got one point right. Darkfall is a niche game and not for anyone. Darkfall not for casual players, crafters(everyone and his mother got all crafting skills) or pvpers. It is a niche mmo for hardcore PVE players.
I've been playing WoW for 3 years and I must say DFO is the only MMO that keeps me interested right now and it appears it will keep me interested for many months. I'll try to play both (DFO as my secondary MMO). The game is total crack for me - I fell in love with it since day one, just as it happened with WoW. The atmosphere, combat and the immense world of Agon (totally non-instanced) are three enough reasons to play this game. Play at night with your headphones, go into some remote area and just listen to the surrounding area - mind blowned!
I'm a passionate WoW player and I love DFO, so go figure.
Oh, and about the grind and the alleged boredom in DFO - well, I don't know, I've been playing the trial for 6 days now and my mind is literally overwhelmed with the activities in the game. FYI, I've finished over 50 quests and I'm still at the Troll/Kobold phase of the game.
Well, I just hope people finally learn their lesson and/or answered their question as why there was never a UO remake. Simply put, skill based (not level based) games encourage griefing much, much more than your level based MMORPGs. On top of it all, sprinkle open FFA PvP then you got yourself a griefer's paradise. Please don't expect the commercial (aka the ones that actual gain a profit from it) to head back into that realm anytime in the near future.......
I do agree that a lot of the individual game mechanics are junk, but as a whole the game is not that bad. I still found it entertaining, and I think the game has a decent base to work with.
Here's the deal: you don't wanna play, don't. I'm tired of listening to the complaining about grind. Never once have I felt a grind. Guess you can say I don't have an ADD attention span where I need something shiny and cool looking to turn my head every different time I play. I quite like the afk harvesting, since it allows me time to invest in the real world and do things like study or email people I need to. I like the nice break from pve. Also, I have a goal in mind, but I don't burn myself out doing it. I also play with a great bunch of people. Quit you're bitching already, this is why media scholars say the information age is full of short minded, attention less people. Take your time and enjoy it. Also, I killed goblins fine by myself. So you're assertion about not being able to kill them is wrong and I'm a mirdain (elf) who are very flimsy. So I'd kindly like you to back up your words with proof or I'm going to troll everyone of your posts and ask for it. Right now we only have your EXPERIENCE which means shit in the face of reality.
Haha I log everyday, and I promise I will stop complaining if DF2010 doesn`t fix things. If it`s still a low populated PVE mmo after DF2010 I`ll quit the game . But I will have my forumwar until that time. You know the DF devs are listening to the players, and if all they hear is "there is no grind", "we have enough players", "we need more quest", "we need more PVE", "there is enough pvp" we pvpers will lose.
I can quote Krewel, "I'm a passionate WoW player and I love DFO, so go figure."
There is nothing to figure about. DF is a full-loot pve mmo, and the grind will make you former wow players fit in just perfect.
You Xanphia could however tell us why darkfall isn`t a huge grind. Right now we only have your EXPERIENCE witch means shit in the face of reality.
I've stuck it out about a month and my character is very strong. It's all about how much time you want to invest and how much you care about being a solo beast in pvp.
We know this, and that`s why we fight against it. Darkfall is a full-loot PVE mmo at the moment, and the best pvpers are the ones that kill most NPC. That`s the flaw in Darkfall, and the reason we have low populated servers. If a player kills 50000 goblins, he is "hardcore" enough to call himself a great pvper. And yes, goblins can do the job just as good as a cairn giant. It`s all about dedication, hard work, time and not about players skill. You all say the same, kill enough NPCs and you will do great in pvp.
And the grind is awful. You can can confirme this by all the "how to maximize you char fast" and "Xiphers hardcore NPC killer guide to get a low level pvp char in two months" posts. Invested time in killing NPC and afk harvest is the core of Darkfall, and it needs to stop while we still have a game.
And all those "team up to fight goblins" og "get two dedicated healer/buffers when you train melee" posts makes me cry blood. The grind is so bad they want you to team up to kill easy, boring mobs. Macroing is by far the fastest way to skill up any skill, no matter what anyone say. AV need to make the pvp skills/stats easy to get, and they can keep the crafting part slow for the level guys.
But the NPC grinders got one point right. Darkfall is a niche game and not for anyone. Darkfall not for casual players, crafters(everyone and his mother got all crafting skills) or pvpers. It is a niche mmo for hardcore PVE players.
PvE is and always will be a means to PvP, thats what makes the game dynamic. What you are basically complaing about are the aspects of the game that make it an RPG. You are also wrong about crafting. Most people have maybe 1 craft skill maxed, and thats usually talioring becuase its cheap. The true crafters of the game, those who actually like crafting, have multiple crafts up and are generally in a hardcore PvP clan. Why?, it makes getting things for PvP easier. I only make my own bone armor, Indica Sin makes everything else I need. Thats how the game works and will always work.
I've stuck it out about a month and my character is very strong. It's all about how much time you want to invest and how much you care about being a solo beast in pvp.
We know this, and that`s why we fight against it. Darkfall is a full-loot PVE mmo at the moment, and the best pvpers are the ones that kill most NPC. That`s the flaw in Darkfall, and the reason we have low populated servers. If a player kills 50000 goblins, he is "hardcore" enough to call himself a great pvper. And yes, goblins can do the job just as good as a cairn giant. It`s all about dedication, hard work, time and not about players skill. You all say the same, kill enough NPCs and you will do great in pvp.
And the grind is awful. You can can confirme this by all the "how to maximize you char fast" and "Xiphers hardcore NPC killer guide to get a low level pvp char in two months" posts. Invested time in killing NPC and afk harvest is the core of Darkfall, and it needs to stop while we still have a game.
And all those "team up to fight goblins" og "get two dedicated healer/buffers when you train melee" posts makes me cry blood. The grind is so bad they want you to team up to kill easy, boring mobs. Macroing is by far the fastest way to skill up any skill, no matter what anyone say. AV need to make the pvp skills/stats easy to get, and they can keep the crafting part slow for the level guys.
But the NPC grinders got one point right. Darkfall is a niche game and not for anyone. Darkfall not for casual players, crafters(everyone and his mother got all crafting skills) or pvpers. It is a niche mmo for hardcore PVE players.
I think with more advertising it can become more than a niche game though, because it is unique.
Compared to other MMORPGs, Darkfall is the most pvp-intensive by far. If you want to never do PVE or really progress in skills over time through training and want to be competative from the gate, you should play an FPS, because they are all of those things you want.
Personally, I like RPGs and their trademark "leveling up", i.e. getting stronger over time through training. What better way to show that you've really gotten stronger than owning face on anyone that just started the game?
Vets that tell people like you to "go back to WoW" have it wrong. They should be saying, "Go back to Unreal Tournament."
Haha I log everyday, and I promise I will stop complaining if DF2010 doesn`t fix things. If it`s still a low populated PVE mmo after DF2010 I`ll quit the game . But I will have my forumwar until that time. You know the DF devs are listening to the players, and if all they hear is "there is no grind", "we have enough players", "we need more quest", "we need more PVE", "there is enough pvp" we pvpers will lose.
I can quote Krewel, "I'm a passionate WoW player and I love DFO, so go figure."
There is nothing to figure about. DF is a full-loot pve mmo, and the grind will make you former wow players fit in just perfect.
You Xanphia could however tell us why darkfall isn`t a huge grind. Right now we only have your EXPERIENCE witch means shit in the face of reality.
It's only a grind if you make it into one, as I've said 100 times here. I've even given examples on several ways to advance your character without grinding, but it seems people just WANT to cry.
Personally, I find the population on NA to be fine. More players would be cool, I guess, but the area I live in is nicely populated and gets kinda crowded at times.
No...we do NOT need more PVE. There's plenty of mobs, and a nice variety of them.
But people bitched about players and clans holing up inside their cities bloodwalling and macroing, so AV gave people incentive to come out and fight. They gave a good alternative to bloodwalling in the form of skill gains VS PVE mobs, and gave them decent drops, so there would be something to fight over.
But it's STILL not enough. Still the crying goes on. People will not be satisfied until Darkfall is stripped down to an FPS with no character advancement at all.
I wish the people who don't like the game would simply go play something else, and leave the fucking game alone for those of us who DO like it.
I sure as Hell never have a problem finding a PVP fight, I dunno what the fuck people are on about.
I've stuck it out about a month and my character is very strong. It's all about how much time you want to invest and how much you care about being a solo beast in pvp.
We know this, and that`s why we fight against it. Darkfall is a full-loot PVE mmo at the moment, and the best pvpers are the ones that kill most NPC. That`s the flaw in Darkfall, and the reason we have low populated servers. If a player kills 50000 goblins, he is "hardcore" enough to call himself a great pvper. And yes, goblins can do the job just as good as a cairn giant. It`s all about dedication, hard work, time and not about players skill. You all say the same, kill enough NPCs and you will do great in pvp.
And the grind is awful. You can can confirme this by all the "how to maximize you char fast" and "Xiphers hardcore NPC killer guide to get a low level pvp char in two months" posts. Invested time in killing NPC and afk harvest is the core of Darkfall, and it needs to stop while we still have a game.
And all those "team up to fight goblins" og "get two dedicated healer/buffers when you train melee" posts makes me cry blood. The grind is so bad they want you to team up to kill easy, boring mobs. Macroing is by far the fastest way to skill up any skill, no matter what anyone say. AV need to make the pvp skills/stats easy to get, and they can keep the crafting part slow for the level guys.
But the NPC grinders got one point right. Darkfall is a niche game and not for anyone. Darkfall not for casual players, crafters(everyone and his mother got all crafting skills) or pvpers. It is a niche mmo for hardcore PVE players.
PvE is and always will be a means to PvP, thats what makes the game dynamic. What you are basically complaing about are the aspects of the game that make it an RPG. You are also wrong about crafting. Most people have maybe 1 craft skill maxed, and thats usually talioring becuase its cheap. The true crafters of the game, those who actually like crafting, have multiple crafts up and are generally in a hardcore PvP clan. Why?, it makes getting things for PvP easier. I only make my own bone armor, Indica Sin makes everything else I need. Thats how the game works and will always work.
[Mod Edit]
At least you agree there is a huge grind. I think thats all anyone is trying to say here.
Comments
i know i have bashed DF in some of my last post but a few days ago i tried it again. messed arround with my video settings, key binds, rerolled a different race, started questing, got a horse
, got my horse stollen 
, got one other horse and now i'm actually liking this game.
i have no problem with higher levels trashing me wile i'm questing or skilling up. in the last 2 days it's only happened twice. it's what i was expecting and you just have to be prepared to loose all that you carry at any given time. the more you carry the more suspense you experience. it's very hardcore, but more importantly THAT is what makes it fun. you'r always looking over your shoulder and trying to not get caught with your pants down. and even then sometimes it just happens.
on the other hand you do have the choice to go gather naked and mostly do it afk as long as you dont mind the chance of getting killed and looted.
you really can't expect to pick up a game like this and have a fair chance at killing every player you encounter right off the bat. on the contrary you should be expecting to get your ass handed to you for at least the first month if not more. just travel light, play smart, stay out of the way, don't wear your best stuff unless you are in a friendly group, ask nearby players if they want to team up for safety, etc. there are already way too many care bear mmos out there were dieing means nothing. not in DF. you die and you loose.....everything you have.
I think the people who say this game in not for casual players are just crazy. I am very casual and so are most of my friends. We have been playing this game for less then a month and we are having a blast. Sure we don't stand a chance against the characters that have been developed for a year but I wouldn't want to. They have put in the time and they should be awesome, it's what inspires me to keep working at it.
Even still we have been seeing our characters growing and getting more capable everyday. Once and a while we even take part in a large Alliance event and we actually make a difference. Even though 90% of the people in the raid could kill us in a few hits and have been playing for 6 months to a year, there is nothing that holds us back from joining them in end game raids or sieges. From Day one we have been able to jump right into everything this game has to offer.
From an MMO players perspective that is undeniably fantastic.
My friends and I all tore Darkfall apart when we first heard of it. We were even ready to mock it when we first decided to play the trial, now we have all Subscribed for 6 months because we can't get enough of it.
Darkfall caters to casuals just fine..it does not however cater to casuals who think they can play casually and then be pvp ready within their first week.
The grind in Darkfall is simplistic, use your skills and they go up, its no real difference than grinding up exp to get to the next level in nameyourgenericmmohere. There are plenty of quests in the game that will send you to various mob spawns at the appropriate times, and if you are still on goblins after a month, then you are doing something horribly wrong.
Back on the grind subject, its fairly easy to level your skills, as long as you concentrate on specific ones and dont try to level everything at once. Some people try to level several weapon types and once as well as several magic types at once with archery thrown in and wonder why it is taking them so long. You should focus on leveling the skills that are best served by what you are fighting. If you are fighting kobolds and goblins, train archery and weapon skills. If you are fighting trolls and akathars, train magery as they always drop regs.
And as for the pvp aspect, what game of this style has ever given a new character a fighting chance against a vet? Thats basically like saying a level 1 in wow should be able to fight a lvl 80...it just doesnt make sense and if a new player could hold his own against a vet in pvp, there would be no real reason to level up your skills.
My Guild Wars 2 Vids
I can not be happier that they put out the 7 day trial. I would have never of known what I was missing. I subbed as soon as my trial ended and wont look back. Most entertaining game I have played in the past 3 years.
the game got released half assed done, but im happy that you find it entertaining , but its also been out for close to a year now so i guess it is about time that the game is somewhat playable.
List of SOE lies
don't troll the guy though, he was giving his honest review of the game
List of SOE lies
the game got released half assed done, but im happy that you find it entertaining , but its also been out for close to a year now so i guess it is about time that the game is somewhat playable.
Yes it has been out for a year and it is exactly where is should be now. Have you given it another try since it came out? I ask because your response sounds a little bitter.
The game is far beyond "somewhat playable" now, It's freakin' amazing!
With all you wrote I know nothing about you. I don't know what you rolled, how long you played, if you grouped, or really any detail at all. I'm just reading this as a rant by a person making his/her first post for that purpose. Your experience runs contrary to the majority of what others are finding. I also don't believe you had "high hopes", because I see zero effort and if any thing, just a disgruntled newbie who was killed a lot.
With the plethora of other games, I'm sure you'll find one that works for you.
-CC
"Lately it occurs to me,
what a long, strange trip it's been". -Hunter
the game got released half assed done, but im happy that you find it entertaining , but its also been out for close to a year now so i guess it is about time that the game is somewhat playable.
Yes it has been out for a year and it is exactly where is should be now. Have you given it another try since it came out? I ask because your response sounds a little bitter.
The game is far beyond "somewhat playable" now, It's freakin' amazing!
Actually no i havent given it another look, but most of my old clan mates are still playing DF as the clan Oromea , but from what they tell me on voice comms is that people are getting tired of building up the clan and city again all the time because its fluxuating so much.
And besides im a old 2003 Eve Online player , so thats what im using my time on now / still.
But i won't say im bitter since i have no lust to play the game at all, wasn't what i expected of the game at all and i was waiting for DarkFall for like what 5 years.
List of SOE lies
Alright then, I also play EVE and love it. I still play it too and have for a long time, for me Darkfall is my EVE version of a Fantasy MMO.
It is my Hardcore, full loot, time spent MMO and I might just have to play them both forever
If you are fighting goblins after week 2 (unless you are doing title quest) you are playing the game wrong.
If you think you need arch mage and 350 to just stand a chance/compete then you don't know how the game works.
Games:
Currently playing:Nothing
Will play: Darkfall: Unholy Wars
Past games:
Guild Wars 2 - Xpiher Duminous
Xpiher's GW2
GW 1 - Xpiher Duminous
Darkfall - Xpiher Duminous (NA) retired
AoC - Xpiher (Tyranny) retired
Warhammer - Xpiher
I must admit though, I love going back to goblins now and again. It's cool to see how much progress you have made.
With all you wrote I know nothing about you. I don't know what you rolled, how long you played, if you grouped, or really any detail at all. I'm just reading this as a rant by a person making his/her first post for that purpose. Your experience runs contrary to the majority of what others are finding. I also don't believe you had "high hopes", because I see zero effort and if any thing, just a disgruntled newbie who was killed a lot.
With the plethora of other games, I'm sure you'll find one that works for you.
-CC
I rolled a Human, played for about 40 hours over the week trial, I joined the NEW clan and grouped with them when I could. Sorry this is my first post, I've never really felt the need to post on anything else, but as you can see I've been around for awhile. As for my hopes for the game, I had the impression that it would be a player skill based game where anyone could be competative even if their lower level gave them a disadvantage. You certainly got it right about the disgruntled noob getting killed alot though. A total of 5 times within a half hour of losing my noob protection, 3 of those times while at the bank in the NEW city while surrounded by clan mates. Being unimpressed with the gameplay doesn't make my opinion any less valid however.
As for being useful in PvP at a low level, why shouldn't you be? The whole game is based on PvP so why should you only get to do it in a zerg swarm or at a high level? I'm not saying you should be the best or even close to it, however since anyone can attack you at any time it seems pointless to have low level players be absolutely helpless against griefers. Look at the PvP in a game like WAR, clearly they are completely different games, but you can jump right in at any level and be useful which makes sense in a PvP game. I'm not saying that DF adopt any of WAR's gameplay, but being somewhat useful in PvP at any level is nice.
I like the idea behind DF, however certain parts of its most basic gameplay, such as the HP gap, just make it too difficult for low level players to get into especially when some vet players are running around with no other purpose than to gank noobs. Complain about my not being "hardcore" enough, but I love the idea of full loot, full PvP, and the danger of being ambushed at anytime. I have a problem with having the same armor and weapons as someone trying to gank me and still be absolutely defenseless because they've played for a month more than I which ironicly I would accept in a casual non-PvP centric game, but not one where I am open to attack at anytime.
I'm in the exact same boat as you, and with these two games I'm set till the servers get shut down. I think some folks are coming across as bitter because they simply followed the development of the game far too closely and for far too long. Imagine if you had been intimately following the progress of James Cameron's Avatar for the last 12 years. Clearly you'd be at serious risk of setting yourself up for disappointment. I've seen this kind of behaviour on this site for years, it's not healthy. They are just games.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
This seems funny to me, you are another theme park gamer. You think that you are not useful in PvP early on and you use WAR as an example.
Maybe if I explain it to you this way. Think of darkfall as if it were a Scenario in WAR, where a new player is a level 1, veterans are level 9 and people who have played are the level 11's who leveled up in their last T1 scenario. as a level one just entering the game what chance would you have if you took on a Veteran level 9 player who just got access to their first full set of armor and a pile of new abilities? solo. Now if that wasn't bad enough try to kill a level 11. Now I did say this was a scenario which means just because you are a level 1 and the other team has a level 9 or 11 doesn't mean that you lose by default, this is a team game and you will have level 9s and 11s and they will have level 1s. Do you see my point?
The difference here is that Darkfall is not just a PVP game, it is also a PvE game and a heavy crafting game. The cool thing about it is that you can do all at the same time, working in three very different directions and still grow in all areas. You can be that same level one and join those level 11s when fighting a fire dragon (which is an end game PvE monster) and although you wont top the damage charts you can surely share the fun and experience and by the time you are done you will have incredible skill improvements.
In both PvP and PvE you can still be effective at the beginning as well, you can still contribute in many ways. People die all the time and you don't have to be skilled to do it, you can still work on your aim with range from the back line, you can still heal and you can still scout and gather loot from dead corpses.
Also not everyone is amazing and maxed out, sure there are a few jerks who are but most are not. There are tons of people in the same position you are all over the world.
I know you have made your opinions on this game but I hope this helps you see it from another point of view at least so you can move on.
What class could you play and still top the charts and still be a huge
Well, I just hope people finally learn their lesson and/or answered their question as why there was never a UO remake. Simply put, skill based (not level based) games encourage griefing much, much more than your level based MMORPGs. On top of it all, sprinkle open FFA PvP then you got yourself a griefer's paradise. Please don't expect the commercial (aka the ones that actual gain a profit from it) to head back into that realm anytime in the near future.
Next, no EVE is nothing like Darkfall when it comes to game mechanics. EVE's skills are based on a timed function which is actually the safest and best bet (so far) way of eliminating griefing in the character advancement. Not to mention, it actually allows you to compete and also live a life outside your computer, how about that for game design? EVE slightly innovated the way we play MMORPGs, Darkfall went back in time and did UO wrong.
Last but not least, this game is very medicore and faces the same consequences with the graphics pipeline that Vanguard did and still does. Sieges are a complete and utter lagfest with 10FPS, ask anyone in the game.. those that don't, have the magical one system that works with Darkfall. Don't expect any performance to change anytime soon, these guys are well below amateurs.
Conclusions:
- Population is incredibly low -
* I hardly ever see anyone else in the area besides the starter towns - and that is still low!
- Grind is terrible-
* try some of those title quests - 200 iron, 300 stone, 300 timber, 200 fish - oh yeah, try not to get ganked while doing it.
- Combat is not good -
* You can not consecutively swing your 1 hand sword and then block, you must wait three seconds or more in between, when you could've hit them for 3 more times - completely useless.
* Switching between your weapons and staff is a complete pain because of the way you switch from your attack and gui mode, it requires a certain number of clicks for each key to pull off. I don't even think there are macros for this either.
* No need for strategy in your combat, and resting afterwards is dead boring even with food and healing spell. I would compare this combat to SWG NGE.
- Lag -
* After killing a goblin, you can see his body slide across the ground because of the server lag (I have below 100 ping).
* The graphics engine sucks, it cannot handle all computer systems for the life of it (really good systems get shit for FPS while shitty systems are actually coming out on top, reminds me of Vanguard).
*You cannot enable shadows and keep a steady FPS.
*You cannot walk through the chunks of the land and not hit lag spikes even if you have over 100 FPS after the shadows are completely turned off.
*Sieges are complete 10FPS lag fest.. even if you go into it with a solid 100FPS (which shadows off ofcourse).
- Crafting -
* Complete and utter grind with nothing fun to craft in between. Atleast World Of Warcraft had a crafting system that rewards the player plentiful with useful and different objects that actually added a benefit to one's strategy.
* No such thing as unique ore, except for the ones that your city inhabits.
* No such thing as rare recipes.
* You cannot use the gemstones you gain for anything within the game.
* All resource gathering is set up to be to be macro friendly. It is encouraged, given that you don't get ganked while doing so.
- Sieges -
* Cannot breakdown houses, only their doors.
* No building destruction.
- Logout Mechanics -
* Being disconnected with a mount will make your mount disapear (these mounts are expensive for new players and are very rare to get the steedgrass to make one.. also a grind)
* Being disconnected while swimming underwater will kill you and cause you to lose all of your gear and items.
- Community -
* The community is bad and good at different times. However, I have encountered more epeen growing twelve year olds spamming the RA chat with things I could not imagine.
* Clans are not encouraged for new players because of the war declarations immediately placed on them.
I think that sums up this terrible game...
P.S : oh yeah, did you see what the game looks like with all of the shadows off? I have seriously crafted and rendered better landscapes than that with free software (and I'm not a graphics programmer by any means).
Seems like you may be one of the people that brought on the NGE in SWG. For me atleast, the same type of stuff was happening when trying to acquire a jedi with a bounty on your head that led to massive xp loss. You have to learn to run and adapt. Once you can skill up more it will get much easier to defend yourself.
We know this, and that`s why we fight against it. Darkfall is a full-loot PVE mmo at the moment, and the best pvpers are the ones that kill most NPC. That`s the flaw in Darkfall, and the reason we have low populated servers. If a player kills 50000 goblins, he is "hardcore" enough to call himself a great pvper. And yes, goblins can do the job just as good as a cairn giant. It`s all about dedication, hard work, time and not about players skill. You all say the same, kill enough NPCs and you will do great in pvp.
And the grind is awful. You can can confirme this by all the "how to maximize you char fast" and "Xiphers hardcore NPC killer guide to get a low level pvp char in two months" posts. Invested time in killing NPC and afk harvest is the core of Darkfall, and it needs to stop while we still have a game.
And all those "team up to fight goblins" og "get two dedicated healer/buffers when you train melee" posts makes me cry blood. The grind is so bad they want you to team up to kill easy, boring mobs. Macroing is by far the fastest way to skill up any skill, no matter what anyone say. AV need to make the pvp skills/stats easy to get, and they can keep the crafting part slow for the level guys.
But the NPC grinders got one point right. Darkfall is a niche game and not for anyone. Darkfall not for casual players, crafters(everyone and his mother got all crafting skills) or pvpers. It is a niche mmo for hardcore PVE players.
I've been playing WoW for 3 years and I must say DFO is the only MMO that keeps me interested right now and it appears it will keep me interested for many months. I'll try to play both (DFO as my secondary MMO). The game is total crack for me - I fell in love with it since day one, just as it happened with WoW. The atmosphere, combat and the immense world of Agon (totally non-instanced) are three enough reasons to play this game. Play at night with your headphones, go into some remote area and just listen to the surrounding area - mind blowned!
I'm a passionate WoW player and I love DFO, so go figure.
Oh, and about the grind and the alleged boredom in DFO - well, I don't know, I've been playing the trial for 6 days now and my mind is literally overwhelmed with the activities in the game. FYI, I've finished over 50 quests and I'm still at the Troll/Kobold phase of the game.
I do agree that a lot of the individual game mechanics are junk, but as a whole the game is not that bad. I still found it entertaining, and I think the game has a decent base to work with.
Haha I log everyday, and I promise I will stop complaining if DF2010 doesn`t fix things. If it`s still a low populated PVE mmo after DF2010 I`ll quit the game
. But I will have my forumwar until that time. You know the DF devs are listening to the players, and if all they hear is "there is no grind", "we have enough players", "we need more quest", "we need more PVE", "there is enough pvp" we pvpers will lose.
I can quote Krewel, "I'm a passionate WoW player and I love DFO, so go figure."
There is nothing to figure about. DF is a full-loot pve mmo, and the grind will make you former wow players fit in just perfect.
You Xanphia could however tell us why darkfall isn`t a huge grind. Right now we only have your EXPERIENCE witch means shit in the face of reality.
We know this, and that`s why we fight against it. Darkfall is a full-loot PVE mmo at the moment, and the best pvpers are the ones that kill most NPC. That`s the flaw in Darkfall, and the reason we have low populated servers. If a player kills 50000 goblins, he is "hardcore" enough to call himself a great pvper. And yes, goblins can do the job just as good as a cairn giant. It`s all about dedication, hard work, time and not about players skill. You all say the same, kill enough NPCs and you will do great in pvp.
And the grind is awful. You can can confirme this by all the "how to maximize you char fast" and "Xiphers hardcore NPC killer guide to get a low level pvp char in two months" posts. Invested time in killing NPC and afk harvest is the core of Darkfall, and it needs to stop while we still have a game.
And all those "team up to fight goblins" og "get two dedicated healer/buffers when you train melee" posts makes me cry blood. The grind is so bad they want you to team up to kill easy, boring mobs. Macroing is by far the fastest way to skill up any skill, no matter what anyone say. AV need to make the pvp skills/stats easy to get, and they can keep the crafting part slow for the level guys.
But the NPC grinders got one point right. Darkfall is a niche game and not for anyone. Darkfall not for casual players, crafters(everyone and his mother got all crafting skills) or pvpers. It is a niche mmo for hardcore PVE players.
PvE is and always will be a means to PvP, thats what makes the game dynamic. What you are basically complaing about are the aspects of the game that make it an RPG. You are also wrong about crafting. Most people have maybe 1 craft skill maxed, and thats usually talioring becuase its cheap. The true crafters of the game, those who actually like crafting, have multiple crafts up and are generally in a hardcore PvP clan. Why?, it makes getting things for PvP easier. I only make my own bone armor, Indica Sin makes everything else I need. Thats how the game works and will always work.
[Mod Edit]
Games:
Currently playing:Nothing
Will play: Darkfall: Unholy Wars
Past games:
Guild Wars 2 - Xpiher Duminous
Xpiher's GW2
GW 1 - Xpiher Duminous
Darkfall - Xpiher Duminous (NA) retired
AoC - Xpiher (Tyranny) retired
Warhammer - Xpiher
We know this, and that`s why we fight against it. Darkfall is a full-loot PVE mmo at the moment, and the best pvpers are the ones that kill most NPC. That`s the flaw in Darkfall, and the reason we have low populated servers. If a player kills 50000 goblins, he is "hardcore" enough to call himself a great pvper. And yes, goblins can do the job just as good as a cairn giant. It`s all about dedication, hard work, time and not about players skill. You all say the same, kill enough NPCs and you will do great in pvp.
And the grind is awful. You can can confirme this by all the "how to maximize you char fast" and "Xiphers hardcore NPC killer guide to get a low level pvp char in two months" posts. Invested time in killing NPC and afk harvest is the core of Darkfall, and it needs to stop while we still have a game.
And all those "team up to fight goblins" og "get two dedicated healer/buffers when you train melee" posts makes me cry blood. The grind is so bad they want you to team up to kill easy, boring mobs. Macroing is by far the fastest way to skill up any skill, no matter what anyone say. AV need to make the pvp skills/stats easy to get, and they can keep the crafting part slow for the level guys.
But the NPC grinders got one point right. Darkfall is a niche game and not for anyone. Darkfall not for casual players, crafters(everyone and his mother got all crafting skills) or pvpers. It is a niche mmo for hardcore PVE players.
I think with more advertising it can become more than a niche game though, because it is unique.
Compared to other MMORPGs, Darkfall is the most pvp-intensive by far. If you want to never do PVE or really progress in skills over time through training and want to be competative from the gate, you should play an FPS, because they are all of those things you want.
Personally, I like RPGs and their trademark "leveling up", i.e. getting stronger over time through training. What better way to show that you've really gotten stronger than owning face on anyone that just started the game?
Vets that tell people like you to "go back to WoW" have it wrong. They should be saying, "Go back to Unreal Tournament."
It's only a grind if you make it into one, as I've said 100 times here. I've even given examples on several ways to advance your character without grinding, but it seems people just WANT to cry.
Personally, I find the population on NA to be fine. More players would be cool, I guess, but the area I live in is nicely populated and gets kinda crowded at times.
No...we do NOT need more PVE. There's plenty of mobs, and a nice variety of them.
But people bitched about players and clans holing up inside their cities bloodwalling and macroing, so AV gave people incentive to come out and fight. They gave a good alternative to bloodwalling in the form of skill gains VS PVE mobs, and gave them decent drops, so there would be something to fight over.
But it's STILL not enough. Still the crying goes on. People will not be satisfied until Darkfall is stripped down to an FPS with no character advancement at all.
I wish the people who don't like the game would simply go play something else, and leave the fucking game alone for those of us who DO like it.
I sure as Hell never have a problem finding a PVP fight, I dunno what the fuck people are on about.
We know this, and that`s why we fight against it. Darkfall is a full-loot PVE mmo at the moment, and the best pvpers are the ones that kill most NPC. That`s the flaw in Darkfall, and the reason we have low populated servers. If a player kills 50000 goblins, he is "hardcore" enough to call himself a great pvper. And yes, goblins can do the job just as good as a cairn giant. It`s all about dedication, hard work, time and not about players skill. You all say the same, kill enough NPCs and you will do great in pvp.
And the grind is awful. You can can confirme this by all the "how to maximize you char fast" and "Xiphers hardcore NPC killer guide to get a low level pvp char in two months" posts. Invested time in killing NPC and afk harvest is the core of Darkfall, and it needs to stop while we still have a game.
And all those "team up to fight goblins" og "get two dedicated healer/buffers when you train melee" posts makes me cry blood. The grind is so bad they want you to team up to kill easy, boring mobs. Macroing is by far the fastest way to skill up any skill, no matter what anyone say. AV need to make the pvp skills/stats easy to get, and they can keep the crafting part slow for the level guys.
But the NPC grinders got one point right. Darkfall is a niche game and not for anyone. Darkfall not for casual players, crafters(everyone and his mother got all crafting skills) or pvpers. It is a niche mmo for hardcore PVE players.
PvE is and always will be a means to PvP, thats what makes the game dynamic. What you are basically complaing about are the aspects of the game that make it an RPG. You are also wrong about crafting. Most people have maybe 1 craft skill maxed, and thats usually talioring becuase its cheap. The true crafters of the game, those who actually like crafting, have multiple crafts up and are generally in a hardcore PvP clan. Why?, it makes getting things for PvP easier. I only make my own bone armor, Indica Sin makes everything else I need. Thats how the game works and will always work.
[Mod Edit]
At least you agree there is a huge grind. I think thats all anyone is trying to say here.