The main reason people "hate" WoW in chat channels - usually new players in a new MMO - is because they think that it will somehow establish their reputation with all and sundry as being an MMO player of long standing who has been around the MMO block a few times. They're basically bullshitting. They might never have played WoW in their lives, or maybe they HAVE played it and actually had good times, but they NEVER admit to it because that's "uncool". Every game I have ever tried in the last several years, no matter what the genre, always has these dickheads wasting everyone's time by having a 10-minute "let's slag WoW off and impress everyone" sessions, and it gets real old, real fast. You see it in Fallen Earth, STO, Guild Wars, Eve Online, Warhammer, DDO, LoTR - you name it. Give it a rest - you aren't impressing anyone.
Actually....the REASON for this is that a very GENEROUS number of ex-WoW (or soon to be ex-WoW) players come TO these games and proceed to immediately WHINE in chat channels about assorted idiotic things:
"WTF? There's no auto attack? You mean I have to TARGET the mobs and follow them around?"
"Why can't I auto target with this rifle? I have to keep pulling the trigger?"
"Where are the portals to other zones?"
And a myriad of other EQUALLY ridiculous questions and statements that completely fly in the face of what would be logical for THE GAME THEY ARE PLAYING at that moment.
Paying players of those games get SICK to fucking death of listening to that crap. And THAT IS WHEN the WoW bashing usually begins.
So the fault of some of the "Wow hating" as you call it....can be directly linked to WoW players, both ex and present, who think EVERY game should BE LIKE WoW. If you want to play a game like WoW.....go play WoW? Logic, ya know?
Actually....the REASON for this is that a very GENEROUS number of ex-WoW (or soon to be ex-WoW) players come TO these games and proceed to immediately WHINE in chat channels about assorted idiotic things:
"WTF? There's no auto attack? You mean I have to TARGET the mobs and follow them around?"
"Why can't I auto target with this rifle? I have to keep pulling the trigger?"
"Where are the portals to other zones?"
And a myriad of other EQUALLY ridiculous questions and statements that completely fly in the face of what would be logical for THE GAME THEY ARE PLAYING at that moment.
Paying players of those games get SICK to fucking death of listening to that crap. And THAT IS WHEN the WoW bashing usually begins.
So the fault of some of the "Wow hating" as you call it....can be directly linked to WoW players, both ex and present, who think EVERY game should BE LIKE WoW. If you want to play a game like WoW.....go play WoW? Logic, ya know?
Well every game should be dumbed down so that the world of gaming caters to WoW players and the rest of us who actually want better,fun and more innovative games to play suffer right ? Girlgeek is just spot on in her comments. I bet you more than half of the WoW player base has no clue about other Blizzard games even exist.
Well every game should be dumbed down so that the world of gaming caters to WoW players and the rest of us who actually want better,fun and more innovative games to play suffer right ? Girlgeek is just spot on in her comments. I bet you more than half of the WoW player base has no clue about other Blizzard games even exist.
"Bet lost on this site..."
The 800K that played AoC and WAR knew WOW very well (as well as you do).
-
With every answer - every one of them - it simply demonstrates my theory.
"It can't be good because it is in WOW". So WOW hate hampers the evolution.
WOW players don't break games, it's the WOW haters that don't seem to know why WOW is that succesful.
So designers are blocked: the moment they want to use a very well designed mechanism (cross server pvp) they are blocked by WOW haters: you can't do that because that's so WOW. Implement the old RvR from a game already long gone (DAOC...)
Problem is ... Blizzard already implemented the more sussesful play mechanics.
There is only the niche market ... the main room has been taken by the 1200 lbs gorilla.
No one wants full loot kill end game things. No one (not when on the receiving end of things).
So indeed the WOW haters kill the industry. They can't analyse and have no clue what makes a succesful game ...
Like I said the Rob Pardos of this world are very very rare. And Saint Viktor and Mr Nice Girl are certainly not in that rare league of extreme good game developpers.
Want a real mmorpg? Play WOW with experience turned off mode and be Pve_Pvp King at any level without a rat race.
Wait a second... I'm not allowed to say "I think it's a bad idea to implement this or that because it was in WoW!"? What if I think "this and that" feature really sucked? It's a personal opinion and I'm entitled to have one, don't I?
You see the problem now I hope, it's not about WoW haters or WoW fanboys or whatever, it's about gamers not beeing able to respect a different opinion and think they know exactly how the mmo world should look like.
You are a fine example of that specimen my good sir. Let's do a little theorycraft here as well... So you say cross server pvp is more successful than Daoc style open RvR. And you base this on the fact that there's more ppl playing WoW than DaoC right?
I hope you see the flaw in this theory right away, because millions of WoW players didnt come to WoW because of cross server PvP, but because of all the other crappy stuff in WoW.
Where as in DaoC ppl actually started playing the game because of this simple single feature of open RvR (and suprisingly for you they still do!)
Just try to imagine, Blizzard would have made a working and fun open RvR system instead of an instanced PvP... dont you think you would write the same ignorant stuff about open RvR like you do now about cross server pvp?
Oh and about evolution of games... It's very logical to copy features from another game just because it was successful ... (see warhammer)... Evolution doesn't work that way.
Btw, I tried WoW back in the days, wasn't my cup of tea so I quit after a couple of weeks. Came back 3 years later to test it again, still didnt like it. So what? It's a good game with some nice features but I didnt like it. If studios start making games WoW-like there's a big chance I wont like them either... (see warhammer AGAIN) And I'm by far (and by that I mean it's not only a niche market) not the only one! What now?
In conclusion: people are different and ,thank god, that also counts for game developers!
I think it's ok for wow and any other game to take ideas from other games and even better if they improve upon them. this is where I see some of the misplaced anger. For some reason, game players have adopted (well some of them) this idea that playing one game defines them and that if one is a fan of another then they are in some completely different camp. I don't recall anyone hating on players of space invaders when they were in the Centipede camp of video games. There is this thing that some players feel/think that the games they play reflect upon and seem to fortify their self worth. But where the misplaced feelings come in is when a group of unsatisfied or disenfranchised players just wait to jump on every little thing that wow does, waiting for it to make that "one" mistake so that it will topple as quickly as it rose to it's current position. Every mmo dev that I have spoken to (whether it be at pax or gencon) feels that wow has done a good thing for brining in more players to the fold. The issue is when game companies feel that they have to be WoW (see Alganon) in order to be successful. Because of this players think that other types of games might not be made or that innovation is gone. however, as I've pointed out a number of times, mmo's are following other types of media. For instance, I don't see any listeners up in arms that new songs are in the same old keys such as G major or C major. And that they are usually in 4/4 and most if not all have the EXACT same form as songs from years and years ago. PoP games are here to stay. More experimental games are going to be like Jazz or Blues or 12 tone music. They will have a die hard following and people will figure out how to create them but I doubt that they will capture the same robust audiences that their followers hope.
Sovrath, you type sense. Highlighted my favourite bit in red.
I don't get all the WoW hate, as much as I don't understand all the WoW rules! stuff either. I'm a proponent of each to his/her own when it comes to gaming. Nothing irks me more than someone haranguing me about not enjoying a game, or enjoying a game that they don't like. It's all personal taste. Play what you like and be happy.
That said, one of the guarantees in MMO gaming is that WoW (as the behemoth) is brought up as a comparison in betas and close to launch on a constant basis. I think the comparison is made as so many players have played WoW, it's a point of reference more easily understood by a majority than AC or UO or EQ. The fanbois of the new game will froth at the mouth and do the whole "go back to WoW!!111!!eleventy" routine without looking to see what the original poster's point was.
In this thread we have people talking about WAR copying WoW's UI, well, the WoW UI has hotbars, a map, a keyring, bagslots, hp/mp/rage bars, quest tracker....and so do many single player RPGs....so did many early MMOs. You put the stuff the player needs access to on the screen. There are not too many ways that can be varied. In fact varying the UI formula would cause more strife than anything else ("Where's my bag?", "Why can't I track quests?", "Where's the Map?!" etc.). Bashing the WAR UI for being a copy of the WoW UI is just silly. It's the standard MMO UI. It works and you don't fix what ain't broke.
Yeah, there will be players coming to other games from WoW who are confused about things that are different, in FE it's "How do I unsummon my horse?", but I don't mind that, an explanation is easy to give.
I think one of the real issues is not so much WoW itself, but the prevalence of things like Quest Helper that lead players by the nose through the game, funneling them to endgame without a chance to stop and experience the leveling so that (despite QH being an add-on) you have players landing in other games and being confused that there's no trail of crumbs popping up to lead them everywhere. A complaint I often hear is "This is hard"...um well so was WoW when there were no exclamation marks or glowy things and you had to go to Alla's to figure out some of the quests (or at least I did, especially in Southshore getting that damn book from the beach). I liked WoW when it was like that (even though it wasn't "hard" just not handing me everything on a plate), but I'm probably a minority.
The other constant obsession is with X game being a "WoW killer". The phrase is vastly over-used and bandied about indiscriminately whenever a new AAA title is on the horizon. Why should people want WoW to be "killed"? It keeps bringing new players into the genre (as Sovrath pointed out) and it's made the geekery of MMO-ing almost mainstream (or is that the problem?). I'd lay money that WoW will only ever "die" of natural causes, and not anytime soon. It's that kind of mindset that probably prompted the OP's many posts on "WoW hate". But it's worth noting that not every ex-WoW player hates the game and wants it to die. I'd worry if I ever loathed a piece of software to that extent ; )
Are there any other MMORPG other than WoW, where the fanbase isnt majority WoW haters?
To be honest you probably won't find any games that don't have WoW haters. People that have 'hate' for any video game obviously aren't very level-headed or down to earth... I mean its just video games. If someones hatred for a game is so strong they have to express it on forums they should probably take a step back and rethink about what they are actually complaining about.
WoW is one of the best games ever. Even I have to admit it. However, no small game should be compared to WoW if it is to develop anything original. If people wanted to play a WoW-esque game, and are smart, they would have played WoW which is a very complete and mature project.
Most niche gamers are looking for something very different. Thats why they DO NOT allow you to mention WoW or make references to it in the channels. They want their game to develop at a different path.
Obviously, there are some "WoW-Haters" who actively slag WoW just because it's popular, but most of the time why people tell people comparing a niche game to WoW to shut the hell up, is because they have experienced such comparisons KILL originality and innovation.
SF
Originally posted by nethaniah
Seriously Farmville? Yeah I think it's great. In a World where half our population is dying of hunger the more fortunate half is spending their time harvesting food that doesn't exist.
WoW is one of the best games ever. Even I have to admit it. However, no small game should be compared to WoW if it is to develop anything original. If people wanted to play a WoW-esque game, and are smart, they would have played WoW which is a very complete and mature project. Most niche gamers are looking for something very different. Thats why they DO NOT allow you to mention WoW or make references to it in the channels. They want their game to develop at a different path. Obviously, there are some "WoW-Haters" who actively slag WoW just because it's popular, but most of the time why people tell people comparing a niche game to WoW to shut the hell up, is because they have experienced such comparisons KILL originality and innovation.
SF
Yes...this. Except that I don't agree by any means that WoW is the best game ever. That is YOUR opinion, NOT a fact for every person. Also the fact that it gets just as tiring to hear all the Blizzard/WoW dong slurping as it does for those players to hear the slurs against it. It will never end because there are people on both sides that don't want to even consider the others points of view and/or opinions and have a mature conversation about it, one side or the other wears blinders and/or the famous Rose-tinted glasses, or if any valid points are brought up, people resort to slander and personal attacks.
As I have personally said before, I didn't hate WoW (The game) itself (Well, vanilla WoW anyways. Before it went paint by numbers and strayed away from being an actual MMO IMO). It has many features I'd like to see included in an MMO with more challenge. It was the community that made me leave the game, and it continues to be it's rabid fan base that makes me not able to forget it because every 10 seconds there is a new thread about it...which even for me makes it hard to ignore at some point, and I am a very patient person...I was married at one point ;P.
There is a very obvious set of people who frequent these forums who are rabid WoW advocates through and through and seem to take pleasure in stirring up trouble on a constant basis. They also seem to disregard any actual logic invoked or twist stuff to fit there personal Pro-WoW agenda. Similarly, the same can be said for some anti-WoW forum members. It gets out of hand and a civil conversation is hard to come by because apparently people aren't allowed to have opinions about a game they like. Ironically, for me, these forums have de-evolved just as the game has..through community. And just as the game, these forums had it's asshats before WoW I'm sure, but I'm betting the number has increased drastically since it's fast growing popularity.
Well every game should be dumbed down so that the world of gaming caters to WoW players and the rest of us who actually want better,fun and more innovative games to play suffer right ? Girlgeek is just spot on in her comments. I bet you more than half of the WoW player base has no clue about other Blizzard games even exist.
"Bet lost on this site..."
Bet WON on the fact that only the most trivial percentage of the entirety of WoW's population even have the vaguest idea what this site IS, much less participate here.
You're surely not suggesting that the tiny fraction of WoW players that are active on these forums are even remotely representative of the 12 million member WoW subscriber base as a whole, are you? lol
The 800K that played AoC and WAR knew WOW very well (as well as you do).
And these people are all represented here on MMORPG? They all have accounts here too? Wow, now THAT is amazing.
With every answer - every one of them - it simply demonstrates my theory.
"It can't be good because it is in WOW". So WOW hate hampers the evolution.
WOW players don't break games, it's the WOW haters that don't seem to know why WOW is that succesful.
Most "WoW haters" (as YOU call them) played WoW. MOST of them will admit to having enjoyed it at one time. Most of them also resent Blizzard for turning it into what it became....something a 5 year old (literally) could (and sometimes DO) play. If you weren't around for vanilla WoW....you really have no clue why some people are pissed.
Also...you're basically saying everyone who dislikes something about WoW or sees areas where it's NOT AS GOOD as another game...are "WoW haters." I don't hate WoW. Hating a GAME is really pretty ridiculous. But I'm also not going to pretend it's the Messiah either.
So designers are blocked: the moment they want to use a very well designed mechanism (cross server pvp) they are blocked by WOW haters: you can't do that because that's so WOW. Implement the old RvR from a game already long gone (DAOC...)
Problem is ... Blizzard already implemented the more sussesful play mechanics.
There is only the niche market ... the main room has been taken by the 1200 lbs gorilla.
You are so arrogant to think that the niche market is unimportant. You know...I hate to inform you of this (no, not really), but YOUR taste in games is not the SAME as every other individuals'. Everyone is entitled to have a DIFFERENCE of opinion on what they enjoy playing. Your opinion is not RIGHT. It's just an opinion. Just like everyone else's, mine included. I don't HAVE to like the games you like.
NEWS FLASH:
I'm a totally different person from you. (It amazes me I have to continually remind people of this...wtf?)
Why is that SO hard for fanbois (of ANY game) to grasp??
No one wants full loot kill end game things. No one (not when on the receiving end of things).
I would say that the EXISTENCE of Ultima Online, Shadowbane, Darkfall, and other games....proves you utterly wrong. Or have you figured out some way to twist the facts or in your chosen delusion pretend those games do not exist? Yes, they are niche games. And people are playing them. So to say "no one wants"....is inaccurate.
So indeed the WOW haters kill the industry. They can't analyse and have no clue what makes a succesful game ...
Like I said the Rob Pardos of this world are very very rare. And Saint Viktor and Mr Nice Girl are certainly not in that rare league of extreme good game developpers.
Mr. Nice Girl? Is that a reference to me? First of all, I'm not a "Mr.," and secondly....I'm sure you're being sarcastic about the "nice" part, since I don't "love" the game that gets you all hot and bothered. Either way....cute. I like it. I think I'll make a sock account named "MrNiceGirl" and start posting how awesome I think WoW is. lmao
WoW is one of the best games ever. Even I have to admit it. However, no small game should be compared to WoW if it is to develop anything original. If people wanted to play a WoW-esque game, and are smart, they would have played WoW which is a very complete and mature project. Most niche gamers are looking for something very different. Thats why they DO NOT allow you to mention WoW or make references to it in the channels. They want their game to develop at a different path. Obviously, there are some "WoW-Haters" who actively slag WoW just because it's popular, but most of the time why people tell people comparing a niche game to WoW to shut the hell up, is because they have experienced such comparisons KILL originality and innovation.
SF
One of the best games ever? Hardly. It wasn't even innovative or new when it came out. That's like calling Halo 2 the best game ever. Drew in massive amounts of people by... doing nothing really, just being simple and pretty.
The vast majority of people that you call "WoW haters" don't slag it because its popular, the have well thought out reasons why they dislike WoW, but the vast majority of "WoW protectors" only love WoW because its popular, or because its the only game they know.
And no, not all "WoW haters" want something "completely different", they just want something that isn't aimed at 3 year olds.
In all respects, WoW is just like EverQuest. I liked EverQuest a lot, I HATE WoW. Why? Because EQ had almost all the same mechanics, but the focus was on a living virtual world, had better world design, no instances, and a social atmosphere.
Granted, I liked DAoC a lot better, because it didn't focus on the stupid gear grind that WoW loves so much. There is a LARGE market for people who don't like WoW, look at Vanguard, sold 200,000 copies its first day in 2007, that is not a bad number at all. Calling that a "niche" market is insulting.
When the genre changes again (if it doesn't outright die) and WoW style games are no longer made, and you cry and whine for the old days, we'll be here laughing at you.
This thread insued most Lulz in my life this morning. I believe internet is a big troll itself, and it's simply impossible to get a conversation with people on a forum without : Insult, Flaming, Trolling wich demonstrate all the IQ of the internet in general (im not pointing anyone).
The guy is asking a question, giving an opinion, and people just insult him and attack his credibility with some sort of obscurs insults. Childish? Yes.
I am really sad about this but on the other hand i find it funny ( i always see the glass half-full!)
Now you have my official and high permission to : Flame me, Insult me, Attack my credibility, Attack the poor quality of my english because it's not my main language OR just agree with what i am saying.
In all the option above it's gonna just give me : More Lulz!
This thread insued most Lulz in my life this morning. I believe internet is a big troll itself, and it's simply impossible to get a conversation with people on a forum without : Insult, Flaming, Trolling wich demonstrate all the IQ of the internet in general (im not pointing anyone).
The guy is asking a question, giving an opinion, and people just insult him and attack his credibility with some sort of obscurs insults. Childish? Yes.
I am really sad about this but on the other hand i find it funny ( i always see the glass half-full!)
Now you have my official and high permission to : Flame me, Insult me, Attack my credibility, Attack the poor quality of my english because it's not my main language OR just agree with what i am saying.
In all the option above it's gonna just give me : More Lulz!
Actually....your post was easier to read and understand than a lot of the posters on here that DO claim English as their first language. So I'm sorry....I cannot presently find any reason to flame you, insult you, attack your credibility or attack the "poor quality" of your English, nor can I agree with what you're saying, because that...well...the path of least resistance just doesn't show much forum spirit, now does it?
I don't see alot of WOW hate in DAOC but mainly because no one talks about it nor cares really we are happy playing our game. If someone mentions WOW the community really doesn't get agressive or anything toward that person. Sure there will be a few lol's and what not but not anything WOW specific just a general response as if someone said they where going to go play Hot potato or Hop scotch or any other kid game.
I don't see alot of WOW hate in DAOC but mainly because no one talks about it nor cares really we are happy playing our game. If someone mentions WOW the community really doesn't get agressive or anything toward that person. Sure there will be a few lol's and what not but not anything WOW specific just a general response as if someone said they where going to go play Hot potato or Hop scotch or any other kid game.
Feedback comes from forums.
Forums is were most of the hatred is shown. And since its a forum,
those post of hatred never go away. This influces the Developers to avoid things in WoW.
As I pointed out in the OP,
remember when people people from the GW forum complained about Long Travel times in WoW, and feared this would happen in GW2 Persistant world if they got rid of Map Jumping?,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Well guess what,,,,,,,,
Now GW2 wont have a large world. Only Load Screen Zones, and instant travel between zones with Asura Portals. So no Large Open world is going to be in the game, because WoW haters complained. Same thing happen for Warhammer.
Fanboys wanted a Anti-WoW over a good game. And in the end, it failed. I remember threads were a fanboy on the forum, made a thread called "No World AV"
And here's yet another thread about why WoW is a great MMO or why it is a bad MMO, and the gazillion reasons why we should believe that and nothing else...
Why the f**k care? Who cares whether the average age of the WoW players is lower than that of other MMO's? Or that WoW drew in hordes of people who had no experience with MMO's before? And who cares if WoW will have millions of subs over a few years or if they've lost most of those to other games? And who cares if there are people who intensely love WoW or have a thorough hatred against it? Neither of these two groups is the majority of the MMO playerbase, let alone the forumvisitors.
Sure, WoW set a standard for themepark MMO's as being successful. But their success also showed the world that there's a growing, profitable market for MMO's. And even if it is so that many companies have to 'sell' their product to investors as their MMO having elements that made WoW successful, next to the many WoW copycats there are enough other MMO's that are just doing their thing, creating their own, different MMO.
WoW isn't the evil Empire a la Starwars, nor is it he best invention since toasted bread, not even is it the be all and end all of MMO's. The MMO genre is still evolving, and I'm sure that in the years to come there will be other MMO's who can be as successful as WoW was or find their niche and deliver a fun, smooth product to a specific taste.
Until then let's enjoy the fact that just like gaming in general, that MMO's are enough out of the closet that we're swarmed with hordes of new MMO's and expansions of all kinds, where in the days of Ultima Online and Everquest you only had a few.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Does anyone really hate WoW? Is there not a bit of exaggeration here? The OP’s ideas were well thought out and WoW has had more effect on the MMO genre than any other game. But the industries and players response to WoW may be down to the huge effect it has had, not because anyone hates the game.
WoW is one of the best games ever. Even I have to admit it. However, no small game should be compared to WoW if it is to develop anything original. If people wanted to play a WoW-esque game, and are smart, they would have played WoW which is a very complete and mature project. Most niche gamers are looking for something very different. Thats why they DO NOT allow you to mention WoW or make references to it in the channels. They want their game to develop at a different path. Obviously, there are some "WoW-Haters" who actively slag WoW just because it's popular, but most of the time why people tell people comparing a niche game to WoW to shut the hell up, is because they have experienced such comparisons KILL originality and innovation.
SF
Yes...this. Except that I don't agree by any means that WoW is the best game ever. That is YOUR opinion, NOT a fact for every person. Also the fact that it gets just as tiring to hear all the Blizzard/WoW dong slurping as it does for those players to hear the slurs against it. It will never end because there are people on both sides that don't want to even consider the others points of view and/or opinions and have a mature conversation about it, one side or the other wears blinders and/or the famous Rose-tinted glasses, or if any valid points are brought up, people resort to slander and personal attacks.
As I have personally said before, I didn't hate WoW (The game) itself (Well, vanilla WoW anyways. Before it went paint by numbers and strayed away from being an actual MMO IMO). It has many features I'd like to see included in an MMO with more challenge. It was the community that made me leave the game, and it continues to be it's rabid fan base that makes me not able to forget it because every 10 seconds there is a new thread about it...which even for me makes it hard to ignore at some point, and I am a very patient person...I was married at one point ;P.
There is a very obvious set of people who frequent these forums who are rabid WoW advocates through and through and seem to take pleasure in stirring up trouble on a constant basis. They also seem to disregard any actual logic invoked or twist stuff to fit there personal Pro-WoW agenda. Similarly, the same can be said for some anti-WoW forum members. It gets out of hand and a civil conversation is hard to come by because apparently people aren't allowed to have opinions about a game they like. Ironically, for me, these forums have de-evolved just as the game has..through community. And just as the game, these forums had it's asshats before WoW I'm sure, but I'm betting the number has increased drastically since it's fast growing popularity.
Give it a rest.
But should people really hate a idea just because its in WoW? That the big question.
Just look at some of the WoW haters in this thread. They try to change my words and tell me I said WoW invented something, just so they can have a argument.
but back to the point.
Should people hate ideas just because its in WoW? Yes or no?
Cause like I shown in the OP, many people have done so, and it cost the game greatly, when the forum fanbase feedback goes against things just because its in WoW.
WoW takes great ideas from other games. So if you hate that same idea just for the reason its in WoW, then you are preventing those ideas from being in future games.
Example: Open world, no load screen zones. Should this be removed because so WoW haters hated the long flight paths in WoW?
What about older games? Didnt they also have Open world? So why arent the Vet MMO people calling these WoW haters out for flaming such a idea just because its in WoW?
Again go back a page or so, and you will see poster who claim to be vet EQ fans, yet they rather flame WoW then call out the people who are against open world zones like WoW, in future games.
WoW is more mainstream than any other MMO ever, that is a fact. More subscribers and has had more impact on society. I played WoW since beta and I don't mean open beta either. I played the game for a couple years even stopped playing and went back to it a few times too and moved on since. Basically WoW does a lot of things right and you cannot blame a game for the community it has.
The big issue is stopping stupid and you just can't stop stupid. Stupid people and @$$holes are every where move to a new game and guess what the faces and names just change.
Ignoring it is the only real answer, don't try to understand just ignore it.
Ok, here is the reason, are you ready? WoW is more mainstream than any other MMO ever, that is a fact. More subscribers and has had more impact on society. I played WoW since beta and I don't mean open beta either. I played the game for a couple years even stopped playing and went back to it a few times too and moved on since. Basically WoW does a lot of things right and you cannot blame a game for the community it has. The big issue is stopping stupid and you just can't stop stupid. Stupid people and @$$holes are every where move to a new game and guess what the faces and names just change. Ignoring it is the only real answer, don't try to understand just ignore it.
So are you and the poster above, fans of no load screen zones?
I seriously think that most of the 'WoW Hate' is generated by posts such as the OP. I mean Tro might not be aiming to generate WoW hate, but when people read these posts its like throwing fuel on a fire.
Most people dont 'Hate' WoW. They just tend to be bored of the game for many reasons (difficulty or lack of, content repetition and gating, or just plain burned out on the game.)
What a lot of people hate is when WoW is brought up in discussion of other games. Take something like a discussion on say Fallen Earth. Normally the discussion starts out fine, but then someone has to drag WoW in, be it with something like calling the game a WoW clone or asking what the game has in common with WoW. Next thing you know the discussion turns into Pro/Anti WoW drivvel.
Its become something like the whole Goodwins Law, where if someone mentions 'Nazi' the thread is over. In gaming forums its pretty much once WoW is mentioned, the thread loses its substance and dies. Because any chance at decent discussion is lost.
Threads like this, on the other hand, are really pretty much made to help keep this 'WoW Hate' burning.
There are 3 types of people in the world. 1.) Those who make things happen 2.) Those who watch things happen 3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
Ok, here is the reason, are you ready? WoW is more mainstream than any other MMO ever, that is a fact. More subscribers and has had more impact on society. I played WoW since beta and I don't mean open beta either. I played the game for a couple years even stopped playing and went back to it a few times too and moved on since. Basically WoW does a lot of things right and you cannot blame a game for the community it has. The big issue is stopping stupid and you just can't stop stupid. Stupid people and @$$holes are every where move to a new game and guess what the faces and names just change. Ignoring it is the only real answer, don't try to understand just ignore it.
So are you and the poster above, fans of no load screen zones?
Large Scale PvE?
What was the intent of your question? Why don't you just ask me if i like ice cream or getting laid.
I seriously think that most of the 'WoW Hate' is generated by posts such as the OP. I mean Tro might not be aiming to generate WoW hate, but when people read these posts its like throwing fuel on a fire. Most people dont 'Hate' WoW. They just tend to be bored of the game for many reasons (difficulty or lack of, content repetition and gating, or just plain burned out on the game.) What a lot of people hate is when WoW is brought up in discussion of other games. Take something like a discussion on say Fallen Earth. Normally the discussion starts out fine, but then someone has to drag WoW in, be it with something like calling the game a WoW clone or asking what the game has in common with WoW. Next thing you know the discussion turns into Pro/Anti WoW drivvel. Its become something like the whole Goodwins Law, where if someone mentions 'Nazi' the thread is over. In gaming forums its pretty much once WoW is mentioned, the thread loses its substance and dies. Because any chance at decent discussion is lost. Threads like this, on the other hand, are really pretty much made to help keep this 'WoW Hate' burning.
Well if we stay silent on the matter, then games will continue to go down hill, as explained in the OP.
But from your point,
if WoW was replaced with , lets say EQ, in those same situations you pointed out, would there be the same outcome?
Comments
Actually....the REASON for this is that a very GENEROUS number of ex-WoW (or soon to be ex-WoW) players come TO these games and proceed to immediately WHINE in chat channels about assorted idiotic things:
"WTF? There's no auto attack? You mean I have to TARGET the mobs and follow them around?"
"Why can't I auto target with this rifle? I have to keep pulling the trigger?"
"Where are the portals to other zones?"
And a myriad of other EQUALLY ridiculous questions and statements that completely fly in the face of what would be logical for THE GAME THEY ARE PLAYING at that moment.
Paying players of those games get SICK to fucking death of listening to that crap. And THAT IS WHEN the WoW bashing usually begins.
So the fault of some of the "Wow hating" as you call it....can be directly linked to WoW players, both ex and present, who think EVERY game should BE LIKE WoW. If you want to play a game like WoW.....go play WoW? Logic, ya know?
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
Actually....the REASON for this is that a very GENEROUS number of ex-WoW (or soon to be ex-WoW) players come TO these games and proceed to immediately WHINE in chat channels about assorted idiotic things:
"WTF? There's no auto attack? You mean I have to TARGET the mobs and follow them around?"
"Why can't I auto target with this rifle? I have to keep pulling the trigger?"
"Where are the portals to other zones?"
And a myriad of other EQUALLY ridiculous questions and statements that completely fly in the face of what would be logical for THE GAME THEY ARE PLAYING at that moment.
Paying players of those games get SICK to fucking death of listening to that crap. And THAT IS WHEN the WoW bashing usually begins.
So the fault of some of the "Wow hating" as you call it....can be directly linked to WoW players, both ex and present, who think EVERY game should BE LIKE WoW. If you want to play a game like WoW.....go play WoW? Logic, ya know?
Bravo girlgeek, Bravo.
Well every game should be dumbed down so that the world of gaming caters to WoW players and the rest of us who actually want better,fun and more innovative games to play suffer right ? Girlgeek is just spot on in her comments. I bet you more than half of the WoW player base has no clue about other Blizzard games even exist.
"Bet lost on this site..."
The 800K that played AoC and WAR knew WOW very well (as well as you do).
-
With every answer - every one of them - it simply demonstrates my theory.
"It can't be good because it is in WOW". So WOW hate hampers the evolution.
WOW players don't break games, it's the WOW haters that don't seem to know why WOW is that succesful.
So designers are blocked: the moment they want to use a very well designed mechanism (cross server pvp) they are blocked by WOW haters: you can't do that because that's so WOW. Implement the old RvR from a game already long gone (DAOC...)
Problem is ... Blizzard already implemented the more sussesful play mechanics.
There is only the niche market ... the main room has been taken by the 1200 lbs gorilla.
No one wants full loot kill end game things. No one (not when on the receiving end of things).
So indeed the WOW haters kill the industry. They can't analyse and have no clue what makes a succesful game ...
Like I said the Rob Pardos of this world are very very rare. And Saint Viktor and Mr Nice Girl are certainly not in that rare league of extreme good game developpers.
Want a real mmorpg? Play WOW with experience turned off mode and be Pve_Pvp King at any level without a rat race.
Wait a second... I'm not allowed to say "I think it's a bad idea to implement this or that because it was in WoW!"? What if I think "this and that" feature really sucked? It's a personal opinion and I'm entitled to have one, don't I?
You see the problem now I hope, it's not about WoW haters or WoW fanboys or whatever, it's about gamers not beeing able to respect a different opinion and think they know exactly how the mmo world should look like.
You are a fine example of that specimen my good sir. Let's do a little theorycraft here as well... So you say cross server pvp is more successful than Daoc style open RvR. And you base this on the fact that there's more ppl playing WoW than DaoC right?
I hope you see the flaw in this theory right away, because millions of WoW players didnt come to WoW because of cross server PvP, but because of all the other crappy stuff in WoW.
Where as in DaoC ppl actually started playing the game because of this simple single feature of open RvR (and suprisingly for you they still do!)
Just try to imagine, Blizzard would have made a working and fun open RvR system instead of an instanced PvP... dont you think you would write the same ignorant stuff about open RvR like you do now about cross server pvp?
Oh and about evolution of games... It's very logical to copy features from another game just because it was successful ... (see warhammer)... Evolution doesn't work that way.
Btw, I tried WoW back in the days, wasn't my cup of tea so I quit after a couple of weeks. Came back 3 years later to test it again, still didnt like it. So what? It's a good game with some nice features but I didnt like it. If studios start making games WoW-like there's a big chance I wont like them either... (see warhammer AGAIN) And I'm by far (and by that I mean it's not only a niche market) not the only one! What now?
In conclusion: people are different and ,thank god, that also counts for game developers!
Sovrath, you type sense. Highlighted my favourite bit in red.
I don't get all the WoW hate, as much as I don't understand all the WoW rules! stuff either. I'm a proponent of each to his/her own when it comes to gaming. Nothing irks me more than someone haranguing me about not enjoying a game, or enjoying a game that they don't like. It's all personal taste. Play what you like and be happy.
That said, one of the guarantees in MMO gaming is that WoW (as the behemoth) is brought up as a comparison in betas and close to launch on a constant basis. I think the comparison is made as so many players have played WoW, it's a point of reference more easily understood by a majority than AC or UO or EQ. The fanbois of the new game will froth at the mouth and do the whole "go back to WoW!!111!!eleventy" routine without looking to see what the original poster's point was.
In this thread we have people talking about WAR copying WoW's UI, well, the WoW UI has hotbars, a map, a keyring, bagslots, hp/mp/rage bars, quest tracker....and so do many single player RPGs....so did many early MMOs. You put the stuff the player needs access to on the screen. There are not too many ways that can be varied. In fact varying the UI formula would cause more strife than anything else ("Where's my bag?", "Why can't I track quests?", "Where's the Map?!" etc.). Bashing the WAR UI for being a copy of the WoW UI is just silly. It's the standard MMO UI. It works and you don't fix what ain't broke.
Yeah, there will be players coming to other games from WoW who are confused about things that are different, in FE it's "How do I unsummon my horse?", but I don't mind that, an explanation is easy to give.
I think one of the real issues is not so much WoW itself, but the prevalence of things like Quest Helper that lead players by the nose through the game, funneling them to endgame without a chance to stop and experience the leveling so that (despite QH being an add-on) you have players landing in other games and being confused that there's no trail of crumbs popping up to lead them everywhere. A complaint I often hear is "This is hard"...um well so was WoW when there were no exclamation marks or glowy things and you had to go to Alla's to figure out some of the quests (or at least I did, especially in Southshore getting that damn book from the beach). I liked WoW when it was like that (even though it wasn't "hard" just not handing me everything on a plate), but I'm probably a minority.
The other constant obsession is with X game being a "WoW killer". The phrase is vastly over-used and bandied about indiscriminately whenever a new AAA title is on the horizon. Why should people want WoW to be "killed"? It keeps bringing new players into the genre (as Sovrath pointed out) and it's made the geekery of MMO-ing almost mainstream (or is that the problem?). I'd lay money that WoW will only ever "die" of natural causes, and not anytime soon. It's that kind of mindset that probably prompted the OP's many posts on "WoW hate". But it's worth noting that not every ex-WoW player hates the game and wants it to die. I'd worry if I ever loathed a piece of software to that extent ; )
To be honest you probably won't find any games that don't have WoW haters. People that have 'hate' for any video game obviously aren't very level-headed or down to earth... I mean its just video games. If someones hatred for a game is so strong they have to express it on forums they should probably take a step back and rethink about what they are actually complaining about.
Come on guys, really? (:
This discussion is stupid.
WoW is one of the best games ever. Even I have to admit it. However, no small game should be compared to WoW if it is to develop anything original. If people wanted to play a WoW-esque game, and are smart, they would have played WoW which is a very complete and mature project.
Most niche gamers are looking for something very different. Thats why they DO NOT allow you to mention WoW or make references to it in the channels. They want their game to develop at a different path.
Obviously, there are some "WoW-Haters" who actively slag WoW just because it's popular, but most of the time why people tell people comparing a niche game to WoW to shut the hell up, is because they have experienced such comparisons KILL originality and innovation.
SF
Yes...this. Except that I don't agree by any means that WoW is the best game ever. That is YOUR opinion, NOT a fact for every person. Also the fact that it gets just as tiring to hear all the Blizzard/WoW dong slurping as it does for those players to hear the slurs against it. It will never end because there are people on both sides that don't want to even consider the others points of view and/or opinions and have a mature conversation about it, one side or the other wears blinders and/or the famous Rose-tinted glasses, or if any valid points are brought up, people resort to slander and personal attacks.
As I have personally said before, I didn't hate WoW (The game) itself (Well, vanilla WoW anyways. Before it went paint by numbers and strayed away from being an actual MMO IMO). It has many features I'd like to see included in an MMO with more challenge. It was the community that made me leave the game, and it continues to be it's rabid fan base that makes me not able to forget it because every 10 seconds there is a new thread about it...which even for me makes it hard to ignore at some point, and I am a very patient person...I was married at one point ;P.
There is a very obvious set of people who frequent these forums who are rabid WoW advocates through and through and seem to take pleasure in stirring up trouble on a constant basis. They also seem to disregard any actual logic invoked or twist stuff to fit there personal Pro-WoW agenda. Similarly, the same can be said for some anti-WoW forum members. It gets out of hand and a civil conversation is hard to come by because apparently people aren't allowed to have opinions about a game they like. Ironically, for me, these forums have de-evolved just as the game has..through community. And just as the game, these forums had it's asshats before WoW I'm sure, but I'm betting the number has increased drastically since it's fast growing popularity.
Give it a rest.
"Bet lost on this site..."
Bet WON on the fact that only the most trivial percentage of the entirety of WoW's population even have the vaguest idea what this site IS, much less participate here.
You're surely not suggesting that the tiny fraction of WoW players that are active on these forums are even remotely representative of the 12 million member WoW subscriber base as a whole, are you? lol
The 800K that played AoC and WAR knew WOW very well (as well as you do).
And these people are all represented here on MMORPG? They all have accounts here too? Wow, now THAT is amazing.
With every answer - every one of them - it simply demonstrates my theory.
"It can't be good because it is in WOW". So WOW hate hampers the evolution.
WOW players don't break games, it's the WOW haters that don't seem to know why WOW is that succesful.
Most "WoW haters" (as YOU call them) played WoW. MOST of them will admit to having enjoyed it at one time. Most of them also resent Blizzard for turning it into what it became....something a 5 year old (literally) could (and sometimes DO) play. If you weren't around for vanilla WoW....you really have no clue why some people are pissed.
Also...you're basically saying everyone who dislikes something about WoW or sees areas where it's NOT AS GOOD as another game...are "WoW haters." I don't hate WoW. Hating a GAME is really pretty ridiculous. But I'm also not going to pretend it's the Messiah either.
So designers are blocked: the moment they want to use a very well designed mechanism (cross server pvp) they are blocked by WOW haters: you can't do that because that's so WOW. Implement the old RvR from a game already long gone (DAOC...)
Problem is ... Blizzard already implemented the more sussesful play mechanics.
There is only the niche market ... the main room has been taken by the 1200 lbs gorilla.
You are so arrogant to think that the niche market is unimportant. You know...I hate to inform you of this (no, not really), but YOUR taste in games is not the SAME as every other individuals'. Everyone is entitled to have a DIFFERENCE of opinion on what they enjoy playing. Your opinion is not RIGHT. It's just an opinion. Just like everyone else's, mine included. I don't HAVE to like the games you like.
NEWS FLASH:
I'm a totally different person from you. (It amazes me I have to continually remind people of this...wtf?)
Why is that SO hard for fanbois (of ANY game) to grasp??
No one wants full loot kill end game things. No one (not when on the receiving end of things).
I would say that the EXISTENCE of Ultima Online, Shadowbane, Darkfall, and other games....proves you utterly wrong. Or have you figured out some way to twist the facts or in your chosen delusion pretend those games do not exist? Yes, they are niche games. And people are playing them. So to say "no one wants"....is inaccurate.
So indeed the WOW haters kill the industry. They can't analyse and have no clue what makes a succesful game ...
Like I said the Rob Pardos of this world are very very rare. And Saint Viktor and Mr Nice Girl are certainly not in that rare league of extreme good game developpers.
Mr. Nice Girl? Is that a reference to me? First of all, I'm not a "Mr.," and secondly....I'm sure you're being sarcastic about the "nice" part, since I don't "love" the game that gets you all hot and bothered. Either way....cute. I like it. I think I'll make a sock account named "MrNiceGirl" and start posting how awesome I think WoW is. lmao
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
One of the best games ever? Hardly. It wasn't even innovative or new when it came out. That's like calling Halo 2 the best game ever. Drew in massive amounts of people by... doing nothing really, just being simple and pretty.
The vast majority of people that you call "WoW haters" don't slag it because its popular, the have well thought out reasons why they dislike WoW, but the vast majority of "WoW protectors" only love WoW because its popular, or because its the only game they know.
And no, not all "WoW haters" want something "completely different", they just want something that isn't aimed at 3 year olds.
In all respects, WoW is just like EverQuest. I liked EverQuest a lot, I HATE WoW. Why? Because EQ had almost all the same mechanics, but the focus was on a living virtual world, had better world design, no instances, and a social atmosphere.
Granted, I liked DAoC a lot better, because it didn't focus on the stupid gear grind that WoW loves so much. There is a LARGE market for people who don't like WoW, look at Vanguard, sold 200,000 copies its first day in 2007, that is not a bad number at all. Calling that a "niche" market is insulting.
When the genre changes again (if it doesn't outright die) and WoW style games are no longer made, and you cry and whine for the old days, we'll be here laughing at you.
This thread insued most Lulz in my life this morning. I believe internet is a big troll itself, and it's simply impossible to get a conversation with people on a forum without : Insult, Flaming, Trolling wich demonstrate all the IQ of the internet in general (im not pointing anyone).
The guy is asking a question, giving an opinion, and people just insult him and attack his credibility with some sort of obscurs insults. Childish? Yes.
I am really sad about this but on the other hand i find it funny ( i always see the glass half-full!)
Now you have my official and high permission to : Flame me, Insult me, Attack my credibility, Attack the poor quality of my english because it's not my main language OR just agree with what i am saying.
In all the option above it's gonna just give me : More Lulz!
Lets keep it civil guys, please refrain from personal attacks on other users.
Actually....your post was easier to read and understand than a lot of the posters on here that DO claim English as their first language. So I'm sorry....I cannot presently find any reason to flame you, insult you, attack your credibility or attack the "poor quality" of your English, nor can I agree with what you're saying, because that...well...the path of least resistance just doesn't show much forum spirit, now does it?
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
I don't see alot of WOW hate in DAOC but mainly because no one talks about it nor cares really we are happy playing our game. If someone mentions WOW the community really doesn't get agressive or anything toward that person. Sure there will be a few lol's and what not but not anything WOW specific just a general response as if someone said they where going to go play Hot potato or Hop scotch or any other kid game.
Feedback comes from forums.
Forums is were most of the hatred is shown. And since its a forum,
those post of hatred never go away. This influces the Developers to avoid things in WoW.
As I pointed out in the OP,
remember when people people from the GW forum complained about Long Travel times in WoW, and feared this would happen in GW2 Persistant world if they got rid of Map Jumping?,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Well guess what,,,,,,,,
Now GW2 wont have a large world. Only Load Screen Zones, and instant travel between zones with Asura Portals. So no Large Open world is going to be in the game, because WoW haters complained. Same thing happen for Warhammer.
Fanboys wanted a Anti-WoW over a good game. And in the end, it failed. I remember threads were a fanboy on the forum, made a thread called "No World AV"
Well what does he/she mean by No World AV?
And here's yet another thread about why WoW is a great MMO or why it is a bad MMO, and the gazillion reasons why we should believe that and nothing else...
Why the f**k care? Who cares whether the average age of the WoW players is lower than that of other MMO's? Or that WoW drew in hordes of people who had no experience with MMO's before? And who cares if WoW will have millions of subs over a few years or if they've lost most of those to other games? And who cares if there are people who intensely love WoW or have a thorough hatred against it? Neither of these two groups is the majority of the MMO playerbase, let alone the forumvisitors.
Sure, WoW set a standard for themepark MMO's as being successful. But their success also showed the world that there's a growing, profitable market for MMO's. And even if it is so that many companies have to 'sell' their product to investors as their MMO having elements that made WoW successful, next to the many WoW copycats there are enough other MMO's that are just doing their thing, creating their own, different MMO.
WoW isn't the evil Empire a la Starwars, nor is it he best invention since toasted bread, not even is it the be all and end all of MMO's. The MMO genre is still evolving, and I'm sure that in the years to come there will be other MMO's who can be as successful as WoW was or find their niche and deliver a fun, smooth product to a specific taste.
Until then let's enjoy the fact that just like gaming in general, that MMO's are enough out of the closet that we're swarmed with hordes of new MMO's and expansions of all kinds, where in the days of Ultima Online and Everquest you only had a few.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Does anyone really hate WoW? Is there not a bit of exaggeration here? The OP’s ideas were well thought out and WoW has had more effect on the MMO genre than any other game. But the industries and players response to WoW may be down to the huge effect it has had, not because anyone hates the game.
Yes...this. Except that I don't agree by any means that WoW is the best game ever. That is YOUR opinion, NOT a fact for every person. Also the fact that it gets just as tiring to hear all the Blizzard/WoW dong slurping as it does for those players to hear the slurs against it. It will never end because there are people on both sides that don't want to even consider the others points of view and/or opinions and have a mature conversation about it, one side or the other wears blinders and/or the famous Rose-tinted glasses, or if any valid points are brought up, people resort to slander and personal attacks.
As I have personally said before, I didn't hate WoW (The game) itself (Well, vanilla WoW anyways. Before it went paint by numbers and strayed away from being an actual MMO IMO). It has many features I'd like to see included in an MMO with more challenge. It was the community that made me leave the game, and it continues to be it's rabid fan base that makes me not able to forget it because every 10 seconds there is a new thread about it...which even for me makes it hard to ignore at some point, and I am a very patient person...I was married at one point ;P.
There is a very obvious set of people who frequent these forums who are rabid WoW advocates through and through and seem to take pleasure in stirring up trouble on a constant basis. They also seem to disregard any actual logic invoked or twist stuff to fit there personal Pro-WoW agenda. Similarly, the same can be said for some anti-WoW forum members. It gets out of hand and a civil conversation is hard to come by because apparently people aren't allowed to have opinions about a game they like. Ironically, for me, these forums have de-evolved just as the game has..through community. And just as the game, these forums had it's asshats before WoW I'm sure, but I'm betting the number has increased drastically since it's fast growing popularity.
Give it a rest.
But should people really hate a idea just because its in WoW? That the big question.
Just look at some of the WoW haters in this thread. They try to change my words and tell me I said WoW invented something, just so they can have a argument.
but back to the point.
Should people hate ideas just because its in WoW? Yes or no?
Cause like I shown in the OP, many people have done so, and it cost the game greatly, when the forum fanbase feedback goes against things just because its in WoW.
WoW takes great ideas from other games. So if you hate that same idea just for the reason its in WoW, then you are preventing those ideas from being in future games.
Example: Open world, no load screen zones. Should this be removed because so WoW haters hated the long flight paths in WoW?
What about older games? Didnt they also have Open world? So why arent the Vet MMO people calling these WoW haters out for flaming such a idea just because its in WoW?
Again go back a page or so, and you will see poster who claim to be vet EQ fans, yet they rather flame WoW then call out the people who are against open world zones like WoW, in future games.
I seriously am just over spelling it out in CRAYON. Here is the point. You just don't get it.
Ok, here is the reason, are you ready?
WoW is more mainstream than any other MMO ever, that is a fact. More subscribers and has had more impact on society. I played WoW since beta and I don't mean open beta either. I played the game for a couple years even stopped playing and went back to it a few times too and moved on since. Basically WoW does a lot of things right and you cannot blame a game for the community it has.
The big issue is stopping stupid and you just can't stop stupid. Stupid people and @$$holes are every where move to a new game and guess what the faces and names just change.
Ignoring it is the only real answer, don't try to understand just ignore it.
So are you and the poster above, fans of no load screen zones?
Large Scale PvE?
I seriously think that most of the 'WoW Hate' is generated by posts such as the OP. I mean Tro might not be aiming to generate WoW hate, but when people read these posts its like throwing fuel on a fire.
Most people dont 'Hate' WoW. They just tend to be bored of the game for many reasons (difficulty or lack of, content repetition and gating, or just plain burned out on the game.)
What a lot of people hate is when WoW is brought up in discussion of other games. Take something like a discussion on say Fallen Earth. Normally the discussion starts out fine, but then someone has to drag WoW in, be it with something like calling the game a WoW clone or asking what the game has in common with WoW. Next thing you know the discussion turns into Pro/Anti WoW drivvel.
Its become something like the whole Goodwins Law, where if someone mentions 'Nazi' the thread is over. In gaming forums its pretty much once WoW is mentioned, the thread loses its substance and dies. Because any chance at decent discussion is lost.
Threads like this, on the other hand, are really pretty much made to help keep this 'WoW Hate' burning.
There are 3 types of people in the world.
1.) Those who make things happen
2.) Those who watch things happen
3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
So are you and the poster above, fans of no load screen zones?
Large Scale PvE?
What was the intent of your question? Why don't you just ask me if i like ice cream or getting laid.
Well if we stay silent on the matter, then games will continue to go down hill, as explained in the OP.
But from your point,
if WoW was replaced with , lets say EQ, in those same situations you pointed out, would there be the same outcome?
What about UO? DF? AoC? list goes on.
Whould it be the same reaction?