I seriously think that most of the 'WoW Hate' is generated by posts such as the OP. I mean Tro might not be aiming to generate WoW hate, but when people read these posts its like throwing fuel on a fire. Most people dont 'Hate' WoW. They just tend to be bored of the game for many reasons (difficulty or lack of, content repetition and gating, or just plain burned out on the game.) What a lot of people hate is when WoW is brought up in discussion of other games. Take something like a discussion on say Fallen Earth. Normally the discussion starts out fine, but then someone has to drag WoW in, be it with something like calling the game a WoW clone or asking what the game has in common with WoW. Next thing you know the discussion turns into Pro/Anti WoW drivvel. Its become something like the whole Goodwins Law, where if someone mentions 'Nazi' the thread is over. In gaming forums its pretty much once WoW is mentioned, the thread loses its substance and dies. Because any chance at decent discussion is lost. Threads like this, on the other hand, are really pretty much made to help keep this 'WoW Hate' burning.
Well if we stay silent on the matter, then games will continue to go down hill, as explained in the OP.
But from your point,
if WoW was replaced with , lets say EQ, in those same situations you pointed out, would there be the same outcome?
What about UO? DF? AoC? list goes on.
Whould it be the same reaction?
Thing is EQ was used in those situations before WoW existed, just to a lesser extent because people were either wanting a new game or sticking to thier old one. Today however people have to bring up WoW in discussions that really have nothing to do with it. I have seen threads where people compared Mass Effect to WoW.
Problem is a lot of people seem to think that WoW created the genre. Thats mostly due to the fact that a majority of the people in the genre started with WoW, sorta like how my nephew thinks the Xbox was first console system ever released.
The point of my post is that the dwelling on the whole 'WoW Hate' thing isnt really helping the industry or the players. Comparing WoW to other games or other games to WoW doesnt really help game development either. If people hate the game, thats thier choice/opinion.
Talking about "Are there any other MMORPG other than WoW, where the fanbase isnt majority WoW haters?" isnt really aimed at 'saving games from going downhill'. If you want to stop companies from exploiting customers, dont purchase thier products. The title of this thread is aimed at continuing the whole 'WoW Hate' debate and nothing more.
There are 3 types of people in the world. 1.) Those who make things happen 2.) Those who watch things happen 3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
Actually....the REASON for this is that a very GENEROUS number of ex-WoW (or soon to be ex-WoW) players come TO these games and proceed to immediately WHINE in chat channels about assorted idiotic things:
"WTF? There's no auto attack? You mean I have to TARGET the mobs and follow them around?"
"Why can't I auto target with this rifle? I have to keep pulling the trigger?"
"Where are the portals to other zones?"
And a myriad of other EQUALLY ridiculous questions and statements that completely fly in the face of what would be logical for THE GAME THEY ARE PLAYING at that moment.
Paying players of those games get SICK to fucking death of listening to that crap. And THAT IS WHEN the WoW bashing usually begins.
So the fault of some of the "Wow hating" as you call it....can be directly linked to WoW players, both ex and present, who think EVERY game should BE LIKE WoW. If you want to play a game like WoW.....go play WoW? Logic, ya know?
Bravo girlgeek, Bravo.
Oh please, it has gotten so out of hand how quickly people jump to blame wow for anything that happens in another game.
To many changes made to a new mmo? Blame wow players for whining.
Half finished busted new mmo release fails when hundreds of thousands of people leave? Blame wow players for not wanting anything but wow.
Another mmo adds a feature found in wow? Blame wow players for wanting every game to be like wow.
Someone runs their mouth in general chat in another mmo? Must be a wow player.
Someone makes a valid argument about something bad in a game? Tell that person to go back to wow. It doesn't matter if they have actually played wow or not.
Even contradictions like
Wow has done nothing new or innovative and is 100% made up of mechanics from other mmos
Everyone is copying wow and the genre sucks bad now, because of it. Old mmos were awesome.
It is so out of hand that it doesn't even matter is someone has played wow or not. It is just an easy excuse to most situations now. Something gone wrong? Blame wow. Someone does something you don't like, must be a wow player who has never played another mmo or something.
Lets face some facts. Prior to wow, there were plenty of foul mouthed assholes ruining chat channels and entire mmos. There were plenty of toxic forum communities. Plenty of whining players trying to change game mechanics and certainly plenty of mmos failing.
I'm not sure what the genetic difference is that some people think exists before and after Nov 2004. Looks like the same people to me, just more of them.
Actually....the REASON for this is that a very GENEROUS number of ex-WoW (or soon to be ex-WoW) players come TO these games and proceed to immediately WHINE in chat channels about assorted idiotic things:
"WTF? There's no auto attack? You mean I have to TARGET the mobs and follow them around?"
"Why can't I auto target with this rifle? I have to keep pulling the trigger?"
"Where are the portals to other zones?"
And a myriad of other EQUALLY ridiculous questions and statements that completely fly in the face of what would be logical for THE GAME THEY ARE PLAYING at that moment.
Paying players of those games get SICK to fucking death of listening to that crap. And THAT IS WHEN the WoW bashing usually begins.
So the fault of some of the "Wow hating" as you call it....can be directly linked to WoW players, both ex and present, who think EVERY game should BE LIKE WoW. If you want to play a game like WoW.....go play WoW? Logic, ya know?
Bravo girlgeek, Bravo.
Oh please, it has gotten so out of hand how quickly people jump to blame wow for anything that happens in another game.
To many changes made to a new mmo? Blame wow players for whining.
Half finished busted new mmo release fails when hundreds of thousands of people leave? Blame wow players for not wanting anything but wow.
Another mmo adds a feature found in wow? Blame wow players for wanting every game to be like wow.
Someone runs their mouth in general chat in another mmo? Must be a wow player.
Someone makes a valid argument about something bad in a game? Tell that person to go back to wow. It doesn't matter if they have actually played wow or not.
Even contradictions like
Wow has done nothing new or innovative and is 100% made up of mechanics from other mmos
Everyone is copying wow and the genre sucks bad now, because of it. Old mmos were awesome.
It is so out of hand that it doesn't even matter is someone has played wow or not. It is just an easy excuse to most situations now. Something gone wrong? Blame wow. Someone does something you don't like, must be a wow player who has never played another mmo or something.
Lets face some facts. Prior to wow, there were plenty of foul mouthed assholes ruining chat channels and entire mmos. There were plenty of toxic forum communities. Plenty of whining players trying to change game mechanics and certainly plenty of mmos failing.
I'm not sure what the genetic difference is that some people think exists before and after Nov 2004. Looks like the same people to me, just more of them.
Damn you right on it!!
Again my point. But it gets deeper, when these haters start triping just because some idea is in WoW.
WoW developer's take ideas from other games, improves them and adds them to WoW.
again, what this means is, WOW DEVELOPERS TAKE POPULAR/GREAT IDEAS FROM OTHER GAMES!!!
So as long as hater complain to the new MMO's Developers on the forum fanbase, then new game will continue the pop out a mess. Cause now Developers are being forced to Start from scratch, rather then build up. All innovations build up off of something, no matter what it may be.
And MMORPGs arent any different.
As I talked about in the OP. How much different can a new game be from older root without crossing sub genres? Iav seen people complain about silly things such as Orc races in new mmos, climing it trying to be WoW. So when has WoW invented Orcs? LOL
We can change the names of races but how much different is the race? really.
Thats just another basic example of, how WoW hater get made at anything that WoW does, even if its in older games. (DnD in this case)
Oh yay. And yet another thread continues on where no one agrees on anything and no one thinks anyone has a right to an opinion that differs from theirs, nor is anyone willing to accept that we may all just have DIFFERENT experiences in whatever games are the current controversy.
Blah blah blah.
I don't think ANY honest person "hates WoW." And I have never disliked anything that was in any other game just because "gee wow....it's also in WoW." Where did THAT statement even come from? I don't think anyone disliking any of WoW's mechanics ever has said or thought, "I HATE that, because that's how WoW does it."
No. Rather people TRY to explain reasons why they do not LIKE certain game mechanics. I wouldn't care if they were being used in WoW or Hello Fookin' Kitty Online or EVE, for that matter. There are SOME game mechanics that I, personally, just do not LIKE. There are also some communitites that I don't care for, and if a community is "like that," whether it's in WoW or AION or what....I'm not going to like it regardless of WHERE I find it.
I wonder how many of these senseless threads will be made before everyone just realizes.....some of us like WoW and the gameplay in WoW and some of us.... do NOT. It's not like rocket science.
I don't hate wow by any stretch of the imagination. I just don't want to play it anymore or ever again. Most of the people in other mmo's I have played who keep coming out with the "Go back to Wow" crap are either children or in the other case bitter forum trolls on this and other websites, who think that it's responsible for all the worlds evils. In either case why take there opinion seriously? Don't let it bother you.
I don't hate wow by any stretch of the imagination. I just don't want to play it anymore or ever again. Most of the people in other mmo's I have played who keep coming out with the "Go back to Wow" crap are either children or in the other case bitter forum trolls on this and other websites, who think that it's responsible for all the worlds evils. In either case why take there opinion seriously? Don't let it bother you.
i don't hate wow, but I'm not a fan of players that only know wow(you know who you are). WoW itself is a good game but the only real contribution wow made to the gaming industry is making MMOs mainstream. Other than that they really haven't really contributed anything innovative to the gaming industry which is pretty sad considering they obviously do have the money, resources, and manpower to do just about anything they imagined.
Zzzzzzzz..... Oh yay. And yet another thread continues on where no one agrees on anything and no one thinks anyone has a right to an opinion that differs from theirs, nor is anyone willing to accept that we may all just have DIFFERENT experiences in whatever games are the current controversy.
Blah blah blah.
I don't think ANY honest person "hates WoW." And I have never disliked anything that was in any other game just because "gee wow....it's also in WoW." Where did THAT statement even come from? I don't think anyone disliking any of WoW's mechanics ever has said or thought, "I HATE that, because that's how WoW does it."
No. Rather people TRY to explain reasons why they do not LIKE certain game mechanics. I wouldn't care if they were being used in WoW or Hello Fookin' Kitty Online or EVE, for that matter. There are SOME game mechanics that I, personally, just do not LIKE. There are also some communitites that I don't care for, and if a community is "like that," whether it's in WoW or AION or what....I'm not going to like it regardless of WHERE I find it.
I wonder how many of these senseless threads will be made before everyone just realizes.....some of us like WoW and the gameplay in WoW and some of us.... do NOT. It's not like rocket science.
ok, just cause you doesnt do it, as you say, doesnt mean the majority of the forum base doesnt do it. Warhammeralliance was a clear example of this.
When from their own hands they bring up WoW, then clearly they are refering to "WoW"
Go Back to WoW, is a common known prase used by these haters. And like zorn said, when a idea is shared with the community to address a issue, but the forum base wants to reject the idea because its in WoW (which stated by them), then that problem will still be there, forcing the developers to come up with unique ways of solving issues without doing things WoW has done.
When a developer is forced to avoid ideas that are in WoW, they basically limits themself.
I don't hate wow by any stretch of the imagination. I just don't want to play it anymore or ever again. Most of the people in other mmo's I have played who keep coming out with the "Go back to Wow" crap are either children or in the other case bitter forum trolls on this and other websites, who think that it's responsible for all the worlds evils. In either case why take there opinion seriously? Don't let it bother you.
Well they take up the forum base, and influece the development into taking the Anit-WoW approuc, and in the end, it flops.
Untill developer relise that "Anti-WoW!= Good successful MMORPG
we will contiinue to see more and more flops.
WoW haters are going to hate. Avoiding ideas, just because its in WoW, is just plain silly.
And untill that lesson is learned, developers are going to continue down that wrong path, back into the niche group.
When a developer is forced to avoid ideas that are in WoW, they basically limits themself.
Or it forces them to come up with new idears. Lets face it somebody should.
New ideas from scratch?
What succesful MMORPG has done that and not take thiings from older sources?
Thats not what I am saying though is it? What I am saying is that some fresh idears are needed in this genre and you know it. Yeah of course you take stuff from older sources but that doesn't mean you have to do everything the same. All I see is the same games being released over and over again. How many times have you seen an advert for a new mmo advertising fresh idears or inovations only to see that its exactly the same or worse than everything elses out there? If this industry is going to grow developers need to get creative and take a few chances. One game as an expample is Eve. There is nothing else out there like that at the moment. It drew on older sources like the game Elite. Niche game...definatly, Succesful game....yes.
Actually....the REASON for this is that a very GENEROUS number of ex-WoW (or soon to be ex-WoW) players come TO these games and proceed to immediately WHINE in chat channels about assorted idiotic things:
"WTF? There's no auto attack? You mean I have to TARGET the mobs and follow them around?" "Why can't I auto target with this rifle? I have to keep pulling the trigger?" "Where are the portals to other zones?"
And a myriad of other EQUALLY ridiculous questions and statements that completely fly in the face of what would be logical for THE GAME THEY ARE PLAYING at that moment. Paying players of those games get SICK to fucking death of listening to that crap. And THAT IS WHEN the WoW bashing usually begins.
So the fault of some of the "Wow hating" as you call it....can be directly linked to WoW players, both ex and present, who think EVERY game should BE LIKE WoW. If you want to play a game like WoW.....go play WoW? Logic, ya know?
I have to agree, though in some ways it might make sense.
If one's first game was wow then there is the easy assumption that many games work the same way. Especially for people who weren't big gamers in the first place and how don't check forums or research other games.
but it does start getting tiring seeing everything compared to wow. Part of this is a numbers game. After all, wow did bring in quite a few people to the mmo genre so it makes sense that there will be a LOT of people asking "is it like the hunter in wow?"
In my opinion it might take a bit of patience on both sides. After all, if wow was not the blockbuster game it is then the aforementioned question would't really be a big deal. Its' when you get it millions of times over that players start getting wow fatiqued.
To that end, wow players might be a bit more proactive and realize that not every game is going to desire to be like wow or have wow's game mechanics.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
When a developer is forced to avoid ideas that are in WoW, they basically limits themself.
Or it forces them to come up with new idears. Lets face it somebody should.
New ideas from scratch?
What succesful MMORPG has done that and not take thiings from older sources?
Thats not what I am saying though is it? What I am saying is that some fresh idears are needed in this genre and you know it. Yeah of course you take stuff from older sources but that doesn't mean you have to do everything the same. All I see is the same games being released over and over again. How many times have you seen an advert for a new mmo advertising fresh idears or inovations only to see that its exactly the same or worse than everything elses out there? If this industry is going to grow developers need to get creative and take a few chances. One game as an expample is Eve. There is nothing else out there like that at the moment. It drew on older sources like the game Elite. Niche game...definatly, Succesful game....yes.
Thats why I said, you BUILD off of the ideas.
WoW's developers have done this, and it caused them major success. Why make a MMORPG 99.99999% different from the King of MMORPG (Everquest), when basically you could just build off the ideas that made them successful?
untill developers realize this, the new games are going to contiinue to flop.
Making you game theme park style isnt enough. You have to completly build off of the old. And inovate old ideas in your own unique way. Blizzard has done this well, which is why they have the most success.
Warhammer (yes War again) failed to do this, because they were being fueled by this Anti-WoW mindset that many of the fans had early on. The drove the developers to do a bunch of 180s.
I explained in the OP, how the effect iof these rabit WoW haters will doom any new MMORPG from the success it could have reached. Blizzard team, I know sit back and laughs at this shit.
Remember back in Early War launch,,,,,, BLIZZARD EVEN CAME OUT AND POINTED OUT THE CROSS-SERVER BG issues in War. Even they agreed that the developers of War should have known better, from WoW alone.
Again, you Build on Ideas, not try to take downgrades backwards.
Actually....the REASON for this is that a very GENEROUS number of ex-WoW (or soon to be ex-WoW) players come TO these games and proceed to immediately WHINE in chat channels about assorted idiotic things:
"WTF? There's no auto attack? You mean I have to TARGET the mobs and follow them around?" "Why can't I auto target with this rifle? I have to keep pulling the trigger?" "Where are the portals to other zones?"
And a myriad of other EQUALLY ridiculous questions and statements that completely fly in the face of what would be logical for THE GAME THEY ARE PLAYING at that moment. Paying players of those games get SICK to fucking death of listening to that crap. And THAT IS WHEN the WoW bashing usually begins.
So the fault of some of the "Wow hating" as you call it....can be directly linked to WoW players, both ex and present, who think EVERY game should BE LIKE WoW. If you want to play a game like WoW.....go play WoW? Logic, ya know?
I have to agree, though in some ways it might make sense.
If one's first game was wow then there is the easy assumption that many games work the same way. Especially for people who weren't big gamers in the first place and how don't check forums or research other games.
but it does start getting tiring seeing everything compared to wow. Part of this is a numbers game. After all, wow did bring in quite a few people to the mmo genre so it makes sense that there will be a LOT of people asking "is it like the hunter in wow?"
In my opinion it might take a bit of patience on both sides. After all, if wow was not the blockbuster game it is then the aforementioned question would't really be a big deal. Its' when you get it millions of times over that players start getting wow fatiqued.
To that end, wow players might be a bit more proactive and realize that not every game is going to desire to be like wow or have wow's game mechanics.
People are going to compare things to stuff they are fimiluar with. Explain how thats a reason to hate.
If I say something like "Is a F16 as fast as a Bullet?"
are you now going to hate on the bullet because I compared it to something? they both fast, so they both fit the comparson
In my Lord of the Rings kinship we refer to it jokingly as the game we don't mention . Most of us are ex-wow players that got disallussioned with the changes Blizzard made to the game over the past 3 years or so . I would'nt say people are out and out WoW haters but often in global chat you see tounge in cheek comments about it . Other games I've played are full of out and out WoW haters . A couple I know that play Lotro still have children that play WoW and love it . I think if i was still in in my mid teens and liked the endless grind of raid content that seams to be the focus of the game( since the cross server looking for a group system )I would enjoy it too. But being in my late 20s I find the community to be awful these days . It certainly was'nt always like that . In its initial years WoW generally speaking had a good community unfortunatly it has'nt maintained it . I think the problem is that its very easy to level a new character these days compared to what it was two years ago and players given they level mostly through cross server PUG raiding ( because its the easiest and fastest way to do it ) don't form the type of friendships they once did in the game . Nor do they the same investment in a character . I'm like a lot of people that play other mmos these days I have fond memories of what Warcraft once was but i have no interest in it anymore .
Actually....the REASON for this is that a very GENEROUS number of ex-WoW (or soon to be ex-WoW) players come TO these games and proceed to immediately WHINE in chat channels about assorted idiotic things:
"WTF? There's no auto attack? You mean I have to TARGET the mobs and follow them around?"
"Why can't I auto target with this rifle? I have to keep pulling the trigger?"
"Where are the portals to other zones?"
And a myriad of other EQUALLY ridiculous questions and statements that completely fly in the face of what would be logical for THE GAME THEY ARE PLAYING at that moment.
Paying players of those games get SICK to fucking death of listening to that crap. And THAT IS WHEN the WoW bashing usually begins.
So the fault of some of the "Wow hating" as you call it....can be directly linked to WoW players, both ex and present, who think EVERY game should BE LIKE WoW. If you want to play a game like WoW.....go play WoW? Logic, ya know?
I have to agree, though in some ways it might make sense.
If one's first game was wow then there is the easy assumption that many games work the same way. Especially for people who weren't big gamers in the first place and how don't check forums or research other games.
but it does start getting tiring seeing everything compared to wow. Part of this is a numbers game. After all, wow did bring in quite a few people to the mmo genre so it makes sense that there will be a LOT of people asking "is it like the hunter in wow?"
In my opinion it might take a bit of patience on both sides. After all, if wow was not the blockbuster game it is then the aforementioned question would't really be a big deal. Its' when you get it millions of times over that players start getting wow fatiqued.
To that end, wow players might be a bit more proactive and realize that not every game is going to desire to be like wow or have wow's game mechanics.
People are going to compare things to stuff they are fimiluar with. Explain how thats a reason to hate.
If I say something like "Is a F16 as fast as a Bullet?"
are you now going to hate on the bullet because I compared it to something? they both fast, so they both fit the comparson
Yes I agree. but you are not reading what I'm saying. Or I'm not saying it well.
The issue is not that people are asking about everything in relation to wow. The issue is that there are millions of people asking about things relating to wow.
and what that does is cause a fatigue that get's people a bit "snippy".
It's like if you watch tv and for some reason they keep showing a commercial over and over again. In the larger scheme of things you are probably indifferent to that commercial. But as it keeps going on and on there might be a chance that it actually annoys you.
Now, couple that with wow players asking for games to actually be more like wow when it comes to things like leveling or auction house or how the world is laid out or how the skills are done and suddenly it becomes less of a comparison and more about just making another wow but one that is a bit different because these players want something different.
Now if you are asking me if people should be insulting others for this "no" I don't believe that at all.
but if you are asking "why" people are annoyed then there it is.
It's more about "wow fatigue" than wow hating. Now add that many games are trying to emulate wow and that every discussion ends up having wow in it and people are going to be people and tune out quickly.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Yes I agree. but you are not reading what I'm saying. Or I'm not saying it well.
The issue is not that people are asking about everything in relation to wow. The issue is that there are millions of people asking about things relating to wow.
and what that does is cause a fatigue that get's people a bit "snippy".
It's like if you watch tv and for some reason they keep showing a commercial over and over again. In the larger scheme of things you are probably indifferent to that commercial. But as it keeps going on and on there might be a chance that it actually annoys you.
Now, couple that with wow players asking for games to actually be more like wow when it comes to things like leveling or auction house or how the world is laid out or how the skills are done and suddenly it becomes less of a comparison and more about just making another wow but one that is a bit different because these players want something different.
Now if you are asking me if people should be insulting others for this "no" I don't believe that at all.
but if you are asking "why" people are annoyed then there it is.
It's more about "wow fatigue" than wow hating. Now add that many games are trying to emulate wow and that every discussion ends up having wow in it and people are going to be people and tune out quickly.
Very well said Sovrath. I truly think you just broke down the "WOW hate" to it's core. It's basic human Psychology.
Oh ya, and to be completely honest, there's more than one commercial on TV that is currently "annoying" me. Maybe I should spend more time in my games than posting on forums. That way I wouldn't be exposed to the incessant repetitiveness of the commercials aired during my better half's TV shows that are constantly running in the background.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
In my opinion it might take a bit of patience on both sides. After all, if wow was not the blockbuster game it is then the aforementioned question would't really be a big deal. Its' when you get it millions of times over that players start getting wow fatiqued.
To that end, wow players might be a bit more proactive and realize that not every game is going to desire to be like wow or have wow's game mechanics.
You're right, you know....and I, admittedly, am notoriously impatient with anyone over the age of 13 or so....that I *think* should "know better," on some issues.
People are going to compare things to stuff they are fimiluar with. Explain how thats a reason to hate.
If I say something like "Is a F16 as fast as a Bullet?"
are you now going to hate on the bullet because I compared it to something? they both fast, so they both fit the comparson
I'm not sure what the definition of "hate" is to you, but when I hear the word "hate"....I think of Matthew Shepard being beaten to death in a field and left to die because he was gay....or Hitler systematically exterminating 6 million Jews.
This "hate" word is thrown around on these boards here SO much...it's completely MEANINGLESS. No one, in reality, HATES a game. To say so...is hyperbole at best, and really disrespectful to people who have suffered real hate in the world.
The things you say about people "hating" WoW are utterly ridiculous. You seem to perceive something as "hatred" when it simply is in opposition to what you PERSONALLY think, and frankly....you're going to feel very hated all throughout your life if you persist with that world view, my friend. Best for you to learn right here and now, that people are going to disagree with you as long as you are breathing. This is part of life, not just video games.
I'm not sure what the definition of "hate" is to you, but when I hear the word "hate"....I think of Matthew Shepard being beaten to death in a field and left to die because he was gay....or Hitler systematically exterminating 6 million Jews.
This "hate" word is thrown around on these boards here SO much...it's completely MEANINGLESS. No one, in reality, HATES a game. To say so...is hyperbole at best, and really disrespectful to people who have suffered real hate in the world.
The things you say about people "hating" WoW are utterly ridiculous. You seem to perceive something as "hatred" when it simply is in opposition to what you PERSONALLY think, and frankly....you're going to feel very hated all throughout your life if you persist with that world view, my friend. Best for you to learn right here and now, that people are going to disagree with you as long as you are breathing. This is part of life, not just video games.
You make a very good point. Words like "hate" should not be thown about so easily. It's one thing to beat to death words like "epic" or "fail", that's just being unoriginal, however it's another thing entirely to diminish the meaning of a word like "hate".
People need to choose their words more carefully.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
I'm not sure what the definition of "hate" is to you, but when I hear the word "hate"....I think of Matthew Shepard being beaten to death in a field and left to die because he was gay....or Hitler systematically exterminating 6 million Jews.
This "hate" word is thrown around on these boards here SO much...it's completely MEANINGLESS. No one, in reality, HATES a game. To say so...is hyperbole at best, and really disrespectful to people who have suffered real hate in the world.
The things you say about people "hating" WoW are utterly ridiculous. You seem to perceive something as "hatred" when it simply is in opposition to what you PERSONALLY think, and frankly....you're going to feel very hated all throughout your life if you persist with that world view, my friend. Best for you to learn right here and now, that people are going to disagree with you as long as you are breathing. This is part of life, not just video games.
You make a very good point. Words like "hate" should not be thown about so easily. It's one thing to beat to death words like "epic" or "fail", that's just being unoriginal, however it's another thing entirely to diminish the meaning of a word like "hate".
People need to choose their words more carefully.
. In some cases though people do actualy seem to hate Wow......thats just silly. There are far greater things in the world deserving such a strong emotion than a computer game.
Actually....the REASON for this is that a very GENEROUS number of ex-WoW (or soon to be ex-WoW) players come TO these games and proceed to immediately WHINE in chat channels about assorted idiotic things:
"WTF? There's no auto attack? You mean I have to TARGET the mobs and follow them around?"
"Why can't I auto target with this rifle? I have to keep pulling the trigger?"
"Where are the portals to other zones?"
And a myriad of other EQUALLY ridiculous questions and statements that completely fly in the face of what would be logical for THE GAME THEY ARE PLAYING at that moment.
Paying players of those games get SICK to fucking death of listening to that crap. And THAT IS WHEN the WoW bashing usually begins.
So the fault of some of the "Wow hating" as you call it....can be directly linked to WoW players, both ex and present, who think EVERY game should BE LIKE WoW. If you want to play a game like WoW.....go play WoW? Logic, ya know?
I have to agree, though in some ways it might make sense.
If one's first game was wow then there is the easy assumption that many games work the same way. Especially for people who weren't big gamers in the first place and how don't check forums or research other games.
but it does start getting tiring seeing everything compared to wow. Part of this is a numbers game. After all, wow did bring in quite a few people to the mmo genre so it makes sense that there will be a LOT of people asking "is it like the hunter in wow?"
In my opinion it might take a bit of patience on both sides. After all, if wow was not the blockbuster game it is then the aforementioned question would't really be a big deal. Its' when you get it millions of times over that players start getting wow fatiqued.
To that end, wow players might be a bit more proactive and realize that not every game is going to desire to be like wow or have wow's game mechanics.
People are going to compare things to stuff they are fimiluar with. Explain how thats a reason to hate.
If I say something like "Is a F16 as fast as a Bullet?"
are you now going to hate on the bullet because I compared it to something? they both fast, so they both fit the comparson
Yes I agree. but you are not reading what I'm saying. Or I'm not saying it well.
The issue is not that people are asking about everything in relation to wow. The issue is that there are millions of people asking about things relating to wow.
and what that does is cause a fatigue that get's people a bit "snippy".
It's like if you watch tv and for some reason they keep showing a commercial over and over again. In the larger scheme of things you are probably indifferent to that commercial. But as it keeps going on and on there might be a chance that it actually annoys you.
Now, couple that with wow players asking for games to actually be more like wow when it comes to things like leveling or auction house or how the world is laid out or how the skills are done and suddenly it becomes less of a comparison and more about just making another wow but one that is a bit different because these players want something different.
Now if you are asking me if people should be insulting others for this "no" I don't believe that at all.
but if you are asking "why" people are annoyed then there it is.
It's more about "wow fatigue" than wow hating. Now add that many games are trying to emulate wow and that every discussion ends up having wow in it and people are going to be people and tune out quickly.
Perhaps it is more about generalizations than it really is about having a point to justify complaining about wow.
Millions of new players this, people who have never done that, blah blah. Gamers are the same today as they were years ago and little has changed.
There are plenty of people doing the same danm thing for games to be more like EQ and the good old days or any other example you can think of. It is all over these forums, but somehow that isn't taboo or catchy to say "go back to eq" or whatever.
Deep down I really do get it. I think I do see why people get so upset, burned out or whatever it is in the individual cases. The genre is a mess and that is the only reason one game is dominating so much. Every new release is like a new dissapointment and just reinforces where we are at. People get tired of the failures or whatever and here we are.
Your friends calling it "the game that can't be mentioned" makes a great point. My wow guild has threads and talks about other games all the time. Go to another game like eq2 and mention wow and see what happens. I'll just leave it at that.
Perhaps it is more about generalizations than it really is about having a point to justify complaining about wow.
Millions of new players this, people who have never done that, blah blah. Gamers are the same today as they were years ago and little has changed.
There are plenty of people doing the same danm thing for games to be more like EQ and the good old days or any other example you can think of. It is all over these forums, but somehow that isn't taboo or catchy to say "go back to eq" or whatever.
Deep down I really do get it. I think I do see why people get so upset, burned out or whatever it is in the individual cases. The genre is a mess and that is the only reason one game is dominating so much. Every new release is like a new dissapointment and just reinforces where we are at. People get tired of the failures or whatever and here we are.
Your friends calling it "the game that can't be mentioned" makes a great point. My wow guild has threads and talks about other games all the time. Go to another game like eq2 and mention wow and see what happens. I'll just leave it at that.
That's because EQ was never as popular or as mainstream as wow. Not even the slightest bit.
At the time the only reason I knew of eq was because of all those alarmist news stories about people spending all their time in these games and families suffering and people losing their jobs over eq, etc.
online games were considered exceptionally geeky. and what really were eq's numbers in their heyday? 200k? 300k? I'm sure someone has them.
But wow opens up the genre and now millions of people play the game. And millons of people are asking "is it like the hunter in wow?" (I have repeated that becuaes I can't telll you how many times I've heard/seen that question over the months when people were asking about other games) and it causes a fatigue.
I'm a fairly level head person and lately every time I see "is it like x in wow?" I can feel my energy being sapped.
Now, I am not the type of person who would say "go back to wow" but I do get a bit annoyed when a game is differerent and some die hard wow players want it to be like wow. Incorporating some good idea is fine but making the game as easy and accessible as wow might not be what every mmo player wants.
WoW's good ideas as far as in game tools or polish might be a great way to emulate wow but wow's leveling or complete questing or art style or "whatever" might not be what other players want.
That's ok. But when wow players inadvertently keep askign the same questions over a millon times after a while people are going to become tired of it.
and those who are less patient are going to start acting out. I'm not condoning it but Tro asks "why" and I believe that is the "why".
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Actually....the REASON for this is that a very GENEROUS number of ex-WoW (or soon to be ex-WoW) players come TO these games and proceed to immediately WHINE in chat channels about assorted idiotic things:
"WTF? There's no auto attack? You mean I have to TARGET the mobs and follow them around?"
"Why can't I auto target with this rifle? I have to keep pulling the trigger?"
"Where are the portals to other zones?"
And a myriad of other EQUALLY ridiculous questions and statements that completely fly in the face of what would be logical for THE GAME THEY ARE PLAYING at that moment.
Paying players of those games get SICK to fucking death of listening to that crap. And THAT IS WHEN the WoW bashing usually begins.
So the fault of some of the "Wow hating" as you call it....can be directly linked to WoW players, both ex and present, who think EVERY game should BE LIKE WoW. If you want to play a game like WoW.....go play WoW? Logic, ya know?
I have to agree, though in some ways it might make sense.
If one's first game was wow then there is the easy assumption that many games work the same way. Especially for people who weren't big gamers in the first place and how don't check forums or research other games.
but it does start getting tiring seeing everything compared to wow. Part of this is a numbers game. After all, wow did bring in quite a few people to the mmo genre so it makes sense that there will be a LOT of people asking "is it like the hunter in wow?"
In my opinion it might take a bit of patience on both sides. After all, if wow was not the blockbuster game it is then the aforementioned question would't really be a big deal. Its' when you get it millions of times over that players start getting wow fatiqued.
To that end, wow players might be a bit more proactive and realize that not every game is going to desire to be like wow or have wow's game mechanics.
People are going to compare things to stuff they are fimiluar with. Explain how thats a reason to hate.
If I say something like "Is a F16 as fast as a Bullet?"
are you now going to hate on the bullet because I compared it to something? they both fast, so they both fit the comparson
Yes I agree. but you are not reading what I'm saying. Or I'm not saying it well.
The issue is not that people are asking about everything in relation to wow. The issue is that there are millions of people asking about things relating to wow.
and what that does is cause a fatigue that get's people a bit "snippy".
It's like if you watch tv and for some reason they keep showing a commercial over and over again. In the larger scheme of things you are probably indifferent to that commercial. But as it keeps going on and on there might be a chance that it actually annoys you.
Now, couple that with wow players asking for games to actually be more like wow when it comes to things like leveling or auction house or how the world is laid out or how the skills are done and suddenly it becomes less of a comparison and more about just making another wow but one that is a bit different because these players want something different.
Now if you are asking me if people should be insulting others for this "no" I don't believe that at all.
but if you are asking "why" people are annoyed then there it is.
It's more about "wow fatigue" than wow hating. Now add that many games are trying to emulate wow and that every discussion ends up having wow in it and people are going to be people and tune out quickly.
Perhaps it is more about generalizations than it really is about having a point to justify complaining about wow.
Millions of new players this, people who have never done that, blah blah. Gamers are the same today as they were years ago and little has changed.
There are plenty of people doing the same danm thing for games to be more like EQ and the good old days or any other example you can think of. It is all over these forums, but somehow that isn't taboo or catchy to say "go back to eq" or whatever.
Deep down I really do get it. I think I do see why people get so upset, burned out or whatever it is in the individual cases. The genre is a mess and that is the only reason one game is dominating so much. Every new release is like a new dissapointment and just reinforces where we are at. People get tired of the failures or whatever and here we are.
Your friends calling it "the game that can't be mentioned" makes a great point. My wow guild has threads and talks about other games all the time. Go to another game like eq2 and mention wow and see what happens. I'll just leave it at that.
I agree.
The WoW hatred is there. Its clear to those who dont try to pretend it isnt there.
Comments
Well if we stay silent on the matter, then games will continue to go down hill, as explained in the OP.
But from your point,
if WoW was replaced with , lets say EQ, in those same situations you pointed out, would there be the same outcome?
What about UO? DF? AoC? list goes on.
Whould it be the same reaction?
Thing is EQ was used in those situations before WoW existed, just to a lesser extent because people were either wanting a new game or sticking to thier old one. Today however people have to bring up WoW in discussions that really have nothing to do with it. I have seen threads where people compared Mass Effect to WoW.
Problem is a lot of people seem to think that WoW created the genre. Thats mostly due to the fact that a majority of the people in the genre started with WoW, sorta like how my nephew thinks the Xbox was first console system ever released.
The point of my post is that the dwelling on the whole 'WoW Hate' thing isnt really helping the industry or the players. Comparing WoW to other games or other games to WoW doesnt really help game development either. If people hate the game, thats thier choice/opinion.
Talking about "Are there any other MMORPG other than WoW, where the fanbase isnt majority WoW haters?" isnt really aimed at 'saving games from going downhill'. If you want to stop companies from exploiting customers, dont purchase thier products. The title of this thread is aimed at continuing the whole 'WoW Hate' debate and nothing more.
There are 3 types of people in the world.
1.) Those who make things happen
2.) Those who watch things happen
3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
Actually....the REASON for this is that a very GENEROUS number of ex-WoW (or soon to be ex-WoW) players come TO these games and proceed to immediately WHINE in chat channels about assorted idiotic things:
"WTF? There's no auto attack? You mean I have to TARGET the mobs and follow them around?"
"Why can't I auto target with this rifle? I have to keep pulling the trigger?"
"Where are the portals to other zones?"
And a myriad of other EQUALLY ridiculous questions and statements that completely fly in the face of what would be logical for THE GAME THEY ARE PLAYING at that moment.
Paying players of those games get SICK to fucking death of listening to that crap. And THAT IS WHEN the WoW bashing usually begins.
So the fault of some of the "Wow hating" as you call it....can be directly linked to WoW players, both ex and present, who think EVERY game should BE LIKE WoW. If you want to play a game like WoW.....go play WoW? Logic, ya know?
Bravo girlgeek, Bravo.
Oh please, it has gotten so out of hand how quickly people jump to blame wow for anything that happens in another game.
Even contradictions like
It is so out of hand that it doesn't even matter is someone has played wow or not. It is just an easy excuse to most situations now. Something gone wrong? Blame wow. Someone does something you don't like, must be a wow player who has never played another mmo or something.
Lets face some facts. Prior to wow, there were plenty of foul mouthed assholes ruining chat channels and entire mmos. There were plenty of toxic forum communities. Plenty of whining players trying to change game mechanics and certainly plenty of mmos failing.
I'm not sure what the genetic difference is that some people think exists before and after Nov 2004. Looks like the same people to me, just more of them.
Actually....the REASON for this is that a very GENEROUS number of ex-WoW (or soon to be ex-WoW) players come TO these games and proceed to immediately WHINE in chat channels about assorted idiotic things:
"WTF? There's no auto attack? You mean I have to TARGET the mobs and follow them around?"
"Why can't I auto target with this rifle? I have to keep pulling the trigger?"
"Where are the portals to other zones?"
And a myriad of other EQUALLY ridiculous questions and statements that completely fly in the face of what would be logical for THE GAME THEY ARE PLAYING at that moment.
Paying players of those games get SICK to fucking death of listening to that crap. And THAT IS WHEN the WoW bashing usually begins.
So the fault of some of the "Wow hating" as you call it....can be directly linked to WoW players, both ex and present, who think EVERY game should BE LIKE WoW. If you want to play a game like WoW.....go play WoW? Logic, ya know?
Bravo girlgeek, Bravo.
Oh please, it has gotten so out of hand how quickly people jump to blame wow for anything that happens in another game.
Even contradictions like
It is so out of hand that it doesn't even matter is someone has played wow or not. It is just an easy excuse to most situations now. Something gone wrong? Blame wow. Someone does something you don't like, must be a wow player who has never played another mmo or something.
Lets face some facts. Prior to wow, there were plenty of foul mouthed assholes ruining chat channels and entire mmos. There were plenty of toxic forum communities. Plenty of whining players trying to change game mechanics and certainly plenty of mmos failing.
I'm not sure what the genetic difference is that some people think exists before and after Nov 2004. Looks like the same people to me, just more of them.
Damn you right on it!!
Again my point. But it gets deeper, when these haters start triping just because some idea is in WoW.
WoW developer's take ideas from other games, improves them and adds them to WoW.
again, what this means is, WOW DEVELOPERS TAKE POPULAR/GREAT IDEAS FROM OTHER GAMES!!!
So as long as hater complain to the new MMO's Developers on the forum fanbase, then new game will continue the pop out a mess. Cause now Developers are being forced to Start from scratch, rather then build up. All innovations build up off of something, no matter what it may be.
And MMORPGs arent any different.
As I talked about in the OP. How much different can a new game be from older root without crossing sub genres? Iav seen people complain about silly things such as Orc races in new mmos, climing it trying to be WoW. So when has WoW invented Orcs? LOL
We can change the names of races but how much different is the race? really.
Thats just another basic example of, how WoW hater get made at anything that WoW does, even if its in older games. (DnD in this case)
Zzzzzzzz.....
Oh yay. And yet another thread continues on where no one agrees on anything and no one thinks anyone has a right to an opinion that differs from theirs, nor is anyone willing to accept that we may all just have DIFFERENT experiences in whatever games are the current controversy.
Blah blah blah.
I don't think ANY honest person "hates WoW." And I have never disliked anything that was in any other game just because "gee wow....it's also in WoW." Where did THAT statement even come from? I don't think anyone disliking any of WoW's mechanics ever has said or thought, "I HATE that, because that's how WoW does it."
No. Rather people TRY to explain reasons why they do not LIKE certain game mechanics. I wouldn't care if they were being used in WoW or Hello Fookin' Kitty Online or EVE, for that matter. There are SOME game mechanics that I, personally, just do not LIKE. There are also some communitites that I don't care for, and if a community is "like that," whether it's in WoW or AION or what....I'm not going to like it regardless of WHERE I find it.
I wonder how many of these senseless threads will be made before everyone just realizes.....some of us like WoW and the gameplay in WoW and some of us.... do NOT. It's not like rocket science.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
I used to think I hate wow. It was just the players I hate, just as some of you said.
I don't hate wow by any stretch of the imagination. I just don't want to play it anymore or ever again. Most of the people in other mmo's I have played who keep coming out with the "Go back to Wow" crap are either children or in the other case bitter forum trolls on this and other websites, who think that it's responsible for all the worlds evils. In either case why take there opinion seriously? Don't let it bother you.
You nailed them perfectly man.
i don't hate wow, but I'm not a fan of players that only know wow(you know who you are). WoW itself is a good game but the only real contribution wow made to the gaming industry is making MMOs mainstream. Other than that they really haven't really contributed anything innovative to the gaming industry which is pretty sad considering they obviously do have the money, resources, and manpower to do just about anything they imagined.
ok, just cause you doesnt do it, as you say, doesnt mean the majority of the forum base doesnt do it. Warhammeralliance was a clear example of this.
When from their own hands they bring up WoW, then clearly they are refering to "WoW"
Go Back to WoW, is a common known prase used by these haters. And like zorn said, when a idea is shared with the community to address a issue, but the forum base wants to reject the idea because its in WoW (which stated by them), then that problem will still be there, forcing the developers to come up with unique ways of solving issues without doing things WoW has done.
When a developer is forced to avoid ideas that are in WoW, they basically limits themself.
When a developer is forced to avoid ideas that are in WoW, they basically limits themself.
Or it forces them to come up with new idears. Lets face it somebody should.
Well they take up the forum base, and influece the development into taking the Anit-WoW approuc, and in the end, it flops.
Untill developer relise that "Anti-WoW!= Good successful MMORPG
we will contiinue to see more and more flops.
WoW haters are going to hate. Avoiding ideas, just because its in WoW, is just plain silly.
And untill that lesson is learned, developers are going to continue down that wrong path, back into the niche group.
When a developer is forced to avoid ideas that are in WoW, they basically limits themself.
Or it forces them to come up with new idears. Lets face it somebody should.
New ideas from scratch?
What succesful MMORPG has done that and not take thiings from older sources?
When a developer is forced to avoid ideas that are in WoW, they basically limits themself.
Or it forces them to come up with new idears. Lets face it somebody should.
New ideas from scratch?
What succesful MMORPG has done that and not take thiings from older sources?
Thats not what I am saying though is it? What I am saying is that some fresh idears are needed in this genre and you know it. Yeah of course you take stuff from older sources but that doesn't mean you have to do everything the same. All I see is the same games being released over and over again. How many times have you seen an advert for a new mmo advertising fresh idears or inovations only to see that its exactly the same or worse than everything elses out there? If this industry is going to grow developers need to get creative and take a few chances. One game as an expample is Eve. There is nothing else out there like that at the moment. It drew on older sources like the game Elite. Niche game...definatly, Succesful game....yes.
I have to agree, though in some ways it might make sense.
If one's first game was wow then there is the easy assumption that many games work the same way. Especially for people who weren't big gamers in the first place and how don't check forums or research other games.
but it does start getting tiring seeing everything compared to wow. Part of this is a numbers game. After all, wow did bring in quite a few people to the mmo genre so it makes sense that there will be a LOT of people asking "is it like the hunter in wow?"
In my opinion it might take a bit of patience on both sides. After all, if wow was not the blockbuster game it is then the aforementioned question would't really be a big deal. Its' when you get it millions of times over that players start getting wow fatiqued.
To that end, wow players might be a bit more proactive and realize that not every game is going to desire to be like wow or have wow's game mechanics.
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When a developer is forced to avoid ideas that are in WoW, they basically limits themself.
Or it forces them to come up with new idears. Lets face it somebody should.
New ideas from scratch?
What succesful MMORPG has done that and not take thiings from older sources?
Thats not what I am saying though is it? What I am saying is that some fresh idears are needed in this genre and you know it. Yeah of course you take stuff from older sources but that doesn't mean you have to do everything the same. All I see is the same games being released over and over again. How many times have you seen an advert for a new mmo advertising fresh idears or inovations only to see that its exactly the same or worse than everything elses out there? If this industry is going to grow developers need to get creative and take a few chances. One game as an expample is Eve. There is nothing else out there like that at the moment. It drew on older sources like the game Elite. Niche game...definatly, Succesful game....yes.
Thats why I said, you BUILD off of the ideas.
WoW's developers have done this, and it caused them major success. Why make a MMORPG 99.99999% different from the King of MMORPG (Everquest), when basically you could just build off the ideas that made them successful?
untill developers realize this, the new games are going to contiinue to flop.
Making you game theme park style isnt enough. You have to completly build off of the old. And inovate old ideas in your own unique way. Blizzard has done this well, which is why they have the most success.
Warhammer (yes War again) failed to do this, because they were being fueled by this Anti-WoW mindset that many of the fans had early on. The drove the developers to do a bunch of 180s.
I explained in the OP, how the effect iof these rabit WoW haters will doom any new MMORPG from the success it could have reached. Blizzard team, I know sit back and laughs at this shit.
Remember back in Early War launch,,,,,, BLIZZARD EVEN CAME OUT AND POINTED OUT THE CROSS-SERVER BG issues in War. Even they agreed that the developers of War should have known better, from WoW alone.
Again, you Build on Ideas, not try to take downgrades backwards.
I have to agree, though in some ways it might make sense.
If one's first game was wow then there is the easy assumption that many games work the same way. Especially for people who weren't big gamers in the first place and how don't check forums or research other games.
but it does start getting tiring seeing everything compared to wow. Part of this is a numbers game. After all, wow did bring in quite a few people to the mmo genre so it makes sense that there will be a LOT of people asking "is it like the hunter in wow?"
In my opinion it might take a bit of patience on both sides. After all, if wow was not the blockbuster game it is then the aforementioned question would't really be a big deal. Its' when you get it millions of times over that players start getting wow fatiqued.
To that end, wow players might be a bit more proactive and realize that not every game is going to desire to be like wow or have wow's game mechanics.
People are going to compare things to stuff they are fimiluar with. Explain how thats a reason to hate.
If I say something like "Is a F16 as fast as a Bullet?"
are you now going to hate on the bullet because I compared it to something? they both fast, so they both fit the comparson
In my Lord of the Rings kinship we refer to it jokingly as the game we don't mention . Most of us are ex-wow players that got disallussioned with the changes Blizzard made to the game over the past 3 years or so . I would'nt say people are out and out WoW haters but often in global chat you see tounge in cheek comments about it . Other games I've played are full of out and out WoW haters . A couple I know that play Lotro still have children that play WoW and love it . I think if i was still in in my mid teens and liked the endless grind of raid content that seams to be the focus of the game( since the cross server looking for a group system )I would enjoy it too. But being in my late 20s I find the community to be awful these days . It certainly was'nt always like that . In its initial years WoW generally speaking had a good community unfortunatly it has'nt maintained it . I think the problem is that its very easy to level a new character these days compared to what it was two years ago and players given they level mostly through cross server PUG raiding ( because its the easiest and fastest way to do it ) don't form the type of friendships they once did in the game . Nor do they the same investment in a character . I'm like a lot of people that play other mmos these days I have fond memories of what Warcraft once was but i have no interest in it anymore .
Yes I agree. but you are not reading what I'm saying. Or I'm not saying it well.
The issue is not that people are asking about everything in relation to wow. The issue is that there are millions of people asking about things relating to wow.
and what that does is cause a fatigue that get's people a bit "snippy".
It's like if you watch tv and for some reason they keep showing a commercial over and over again. In the larger scheme of things you are probably indifferent to that commercial. But as it keeps going on and on there might be a chance that it actually annoys you.
Now, couple that with wow players asking for games to actually be more like wow when it comes to things like leveling or auction house or how the world is laid out or how the skills are done and suddenly it becomes less of a comparison and more about just making another wow but one that is a bit different because these players want something different.
Now if you are asking me if people should be insulting others for this "no" I don't believe that at all.
but if you are asking "why" people are annoyed then there it is.
It's more about "wow fatigue" than wow hating. Now add that many games are trying to emulate wow and that every discussion ends up having wow in it and people are going to be people and tune out quickly.
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Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Very well said Sovrath. I truly think you just broke down the "WOW hate" to it's core. It's basic human Psychology.
Oh ya, and to be completely honest, there's more than one commercial on TV that is currently "annoying" me. Maybe I should spend more time in my games than posting on forums. That way I wouldn't be exposed to the incessant repetitiveness of the commercials aired during my better half's TV shows that are constantly running in the background.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
I'm not sure what the definition of "hate" is to you, but when I hear the word "hate"....I think of Matthew Shepard being beaten to death in a field and left to die because he was gay....or Hitler systematically exterminating 6 million Jews.
This "hate" word is thrown around on these boards here SO much...it's completely MEANINGLESS. No one, in reality, HATES a game. To say so...is hyperbole at best, and really disrespectful to people who have suffered real hate in the world.
The things you say about people "hating" WoW are utterly ridiculous. You seem to perceive something as "hatred" when it simply is in opposition to what you PERSONALLY think, and frankly....you're going to feel very hated all throughout your life if you persist with that world view, my friend. Best for you to learn right here and now, that people are going to disagree with you as long as you are breathing. This is part of life, not just video games.
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You make a very good point. Words like "hate" should not be thown about so easily. It's one thing to beat to death words like "epic" or "fail", that's just being unoriginal, however it's another thing entirely to diminish the meaning of a word like "hate".
People need to choose their words more carefully.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
Perhaps it is more about generalizations than it really is about having a point to justify complaining about wow.
Millions of new players this, people who have never done that, blah blah. Gamers are the same today as they were years ago and little has changed.
There are plenty of people doing the same danm thing for games to be more like EQ and the good old days or any other example you can think of. It is all over these forums, but somehow that isn't taboo or catchy to say "go back to eq" or whatever.
Deep down I really do get it. I think I do see why people get so upset, burned out or whatever it is in the individual cases. The genre is a mess and that is the only reason one game is dominating so much. Every new release is like a new dissapointment and just reinforces where we are at. People get tired of the failures or whatever and here we are.
Your friends calling it "the game that can't be mentioned" makes a great point. My wow guild has threads and talks about other games all the time. Go to another game like eq2 and mention wow and see what happens. I'll just leave it at that.
That's because EQ was never as popular or as mainstream as wow. Not even the slightest bit.
At the time the only reason I knew of eq was because of all those alarmist news stories about people spending all their time in these games and families suffering and people losing their jobs over eq, etc.
online games were considered exceptionally geeky. and what really were eq's numbers in their heyday? 200k? 300k? I'm sure someone has them.
But wow opens up the genre and now millions of people play the game. And millons of people are asking "is it like the hunter in wow?" (I have repeated that becuaes I can't telll you how many times I've heard/seen that question over the months when people were asking about other games) and it causes a fatigue.
I'm a fairly level head person and lately every time I see "is it like x in wow?" I can feel my energy being sapped.
Now, I am not the type of person who would say "go back to wow" but I do get a bit annoyed when a game is differerent and some die hard wow players want it to be like wow. Incorporating some good idea is fine but making the game as easy and accessible as wow might not be what every mmo player wants.
WoW's good ideas as far as in game tools or polish might be a great way to emulate wow but wow's leveling or complete questing or art style or "whatever" might not be what other players want.
That's ok. But when wow players inadvertently keep askign the same questions over a millon times after a while people are going to become tired of it.
and those who are less patient are going to start acting out. I'm not condoning it but Tro asks "why" and I believe that is the "why".
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I agree.
The WoW hatred is there. Its clear to those who dont try to pretend it isnt there.
Warhammer had tons of this. So did Guild Wars. http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Feedback:User/Viktor/Dont_make_a_WoW_2