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Star Trek Online: Addressing Some Complaints

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  • WorfWorf Member Posts: 264

    My MAIN complaints are very closely related:


    1. They didn't give a LONG enough DEMO timeframe!

    They should have had at least a 90 day Beta Period.


    2. Open Beta keys required to play the beta RAN OUT too damn quickly.

    I missed getting a key by an hour or so. I work full time and didn't have the time to check it every day.


    Open Betas SHOULD be OPEN TO ALL and not require a freaking KEY to play in them... as well as they should NOT be tied to one part of the world ONLY.


    ---


    Therefore, this long time Computer Programmer and long time Computer Gamer is very frustrated with STO! (To me it is Star Trek OFFLINE... DOH!)


    Would have liked to at least seen the content and play test the game to see if it is something worthy of paying to play.


    I have seen a very alarming trend in the last 5 years or so... PAY to buy the game BEFORE you can PLAY TEST IT! Play testing has shown me many games that would have been a waste of money to buy and other games that most likely would not have been purchased were purchased because the game play and the interface were very well done!


    >:(

  • artemisentr4artemisentr4 Member UncommonPosts: 1,431

    Originally posted by danfromoh


    Been playing STO about a month and MMOs about three years.


     


    1.  Star Trek feel.   Frankly you can't make everyone happy all the time.  I do cut STO some slack here because it is not easy matching someones mental picture of a game with coding and game play reality.  Of course if you don't make your customers happy they mitgrate to some other game.................. 


     


    2. To make this more like an MMO.  A).  Improve grouping ability.  Go look at DDO (yes and I know how Atrai and Turbine get along lol) and see how they made finding a group a very easy thing.  B) Spend some cash and get a build in speech system like teamspeak or like the ones DDO, Xbox etc.  (it is so simple to use).    Coordinating effords even a fast paced enviroment is fun when you are speaking to the team.   


     


    3.  The store.   Meaningless unless you have to buy things to level or compete with other toons.   


     


     A built in speech system should have been in this game. That could have made a big difference. But the number one problem is content.


     


    They launched with about 80 hours of content. That is about the same as an SPG. The problem was the type of content they had. The exploration is the same few quests over and over with different skins. The patrol missions are just simple standard quests. Defend missions are just pew pew and fleet actions are just a zerg fest. The only missions that are worth the time are the story missions. They did a good job with many of these, they are fun and have a good storyline.


     


    The foundation is there for a fun game. Most players like the space combat. The problem is the amount of develoment time. If you go with their season terminalogy. The game launched as a pilot of a TV show. The first season is just about ready to be launched with the second season this summer. Maybe after 4 or 5 seasons. The game will be where it should have been at launch?

    “How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them?”
    R.A.Salvatore

  • DameonkDameonk Member UncommonPosts: 1,914

    Originally posted by nekollx

    Originally posted by Malickie


    Originally posted by AOCtester


    Its totally out of order for Cryptic to feel offended when ppl point out the lack of Star Trek feeling for the game.  Where are the "On screen" msgs that dominate the entire Star trek series ?  Why on earth did they not implement a real Bridge feeling for the game?  I never knew that the bridge on Enterprise was there just for "decoration" purposes.....


    Seriously...  The game lacks alot of what Star Trek stands for.  I puked when I saw the mission logs coming on the screen in space view.  Thats just Blasphemy in my book. 


    Im not commenting on C-store... since just knowing its there will be just another reason I will never buy StarTrek Online.


    Why? Because they only gave themselves two years to create the game. That's hardly enough time to create a compelling leveling process let alone added hours of entertainment through menial tasks. Every problem this game suffers from is a direct result of the time frame they created it in. It's essentially nothing more than a mod of CO with star trek themes and an overhead map you can move around in.


    In two years it's obvious their one and only focus was creating an interesting combat engine, for the flight portions of the game. Everything else they just threw in as an attempt to seem as though they created an actual MMO.


    Two years is hardly enough time to create a deep single player RPG, let alone a full fledged MMORPG.


     


    it can be done, if you have skilled people...


    but that's the catch isn't it...


     


    I'd like to point out that it has never been done.  No successful MMORPG game has been developed in less than 3 years.  Probably more like 4-6 years is the average at this point.


    I think EverQuest was probably the shortest at around 3 years.


    Unless you're from the future! image


    It should come as no surprise to anyone that STO is a shallow, boring, uninspired game.  Even if Cryptic wasn't one of the worst development teams out there 2 years is not enough time to make a good MMO game.

    "There is as yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer."

  • inleinle Member UncommonPosts: 62

    Originally posted by Anubisan


    I'm so sorry Cryptic for offending you...


    I should have considered your feelings when considering your game.


    Give me a break! People would not be saying the things they are saying about STO if they weren't genuinely upset by the direction this game has taken. It is the responsibility of the developers to deliver the community a game that is fun, compelling, and true to the Star Trek lore. It is not our fault that the game fails miserably on those levels.


    If Cryptic was serious about delivering a true Star Trek experience, they should have started by NOT re-skinning Champions Online with Star Trek graphics. They should have known from the beginning that Star Trek fans don't want just another MMO that plays exactly like every other MMO. They should have known that instancing absolutely everything in the game would kill immersion. They should have known from the very start that the game design they were pursuing wouldn't cut it. They have no one to blame but themselves and I don't give a crap if they are offended.


    bravo bravo


    couldn't of put it better my self


    much deserved kudos

  • championsFanchampionsFan Member Posts: 419


    Here is an interesting new podcast from Jack Emmert.  He says that STO has over 100k subs (for now).    He seems genuinely hurt, humbled, and embarassd by the bad reception of these recent games.   But even though he says he is offended that people called Cryptic greedy, later he says things that show his greedy way of thinking ("number one, I always think of the company, the people come first", etc).   He specifically says that Cryptic will be doing a lot of soul searching, and it is my pleasure to announce to you all the good news (for most), straight from Jack Emmert in the podcast I linked:


     


    Official:  Original games coming next from Cryptic, not licensed IPs.

    Cryptic is trying a Customer Development approach to MMO creation.

  • gary0515gary0515 Member Posts: 36


    What i find amazing is that no one has yet mentioned that STO has the same basic combat system as the old star fleet battles game wasn't that about a decade ago?


    I played the beta, it has a lot of potential, of course i say that a lot about MMO games. But my statement about paying full price for an unfinished game still stands. Obviously the suits think we must be easy prey, because we buy game after game that is unfinished, cryptic is not the only one out there that does this, remember vanguard? or AION, or AOC? Maybe what we need is a way to rate a game according to how finished it is, I realize this is subjective, but it is doable.


    Another thing that gets me about developers is they ALWAYS say they ran out of funding and therefore had to publish early. I know a programmer isnt a financier, but come on! 

  • ArcAngel3ArcAngel3 Member Posts: 2,931

    Originally posted by FreeJack2000


        With all of the complaints of items given in the C-Store, Im wondering why no one makes a big deal of SOE, giving the same type of cosmetic  items out when purchasing  Card Packs in Galaxies, EQ and EQ2.  There are many items that folks that play these games would like made by players and yet they are not availble.  


     


     If you think people haven't made a big deal out of the loot lottery in Galaxies or the addition of cash shops in EQ (after Smed said he was against this), you need to look at the forums for those games.  Well, they tend to delete negative p.r. lol, so you might have to look on the forums on this site or other game sites that aren't controlled by the publisher.

  • ArcAngel3ArcAngel3 Member Posts: 2,931

    Originally posted by Christopher8


    The STO producer in recent interviews seems to be getting agitated towards the playerbase.


     I'm surprised that they're surprised when people say they're greedy.  Subscription based game that makes some of the starting races only available in the C-store = greedy.  Maybe greed makes you stupid /shrug.

  • inleinle Member UncommonPosts: 62

    Originally posted by FreeJack2000


        With all of the complaints of items given in the C-Store, Im wondering why no one makes a big deal of SOE, giving the same type of cosmetic  items out when purchasing  Card Packs in Galaxies, EQ and EQ2.  There are many items that folks that play these games would like made by players and yet they are not availble.  


     


    im not doubting what your saying hear but i got to ask


    when did swg start doing that BS as a crafter that would realy piss me off


    they didnt do that when i was playing. then again i stopped playing 6 months after the game went to hell with the NGE


    man hearing that you just stopped me from looking back at the game  when iv bean thinking about if for about a month now lol

  • gadunkgadunk Member UncommonPosts: 164


    Cryptic would probably rock if all they did was F2P Korean knock-offs..

  • KhalathwyrKhalathwyr Member UncommonPosts: 3,133

    Originally posted by championsFan


    Here is an interesting new podcast from Jack Emmert.  He says that STO has over 100k subs (for now).    He seems genuinely hurt, humbled, and embarassd by the bad reception of these recent games.   But even though he says he is offended that people called Cryptic greedy, later he says things that show his greedy way of thinking ("number one, I always think of the company, the people come first", etc).   He specifically says that Cryptic will be doing a lot of soul searching, and it is my pleasure to announce to you all the good news (for most), straight from Jack Emmert in the podcast I linked:


     


    Official:  Original games coming next from Cryptic, not licensed IPs.


    Thank the gods this means they aren't getting to do a Dungeons & Dragons IP game if it is indeed true. Fight on Hasbro, fight the good fight!

    "Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."

    Chavez y Chavez

  • IAmMMOIAmMMO Member UncommonPosts: 1,462


    The only way STO will have any form of success now is if it becomes F2P with the C-store. So the dev team took offence to players calling STO CO with a STO skin over it? Well dev team that is the truth, anybody that's played CO and STO can see the CO mechanics that's had STO put over them, the engine is for fast paced action gaming. What a pity Cryptic got this IP. STO is a MMO that should still be in developed for until 2011/2012 release in full dx11 glory, what did we get? A MMO clearly designed to go on the consoles in the future, not a Pc exclusive using the full potential of Pc hardware.

  • DinendaeDinendae Member Posts: 1,264

    Originally posted by Muppetier


    One question I would have liked to have seen asked.


    I wonder how much the developers were surprised at the negative reaction the game received.


    From their internal testing did they know that basic areas of the game such as ground combat and crafting would not be popular..


    If they did know then was it lack of time, or a limitation of the tools they were working with that meant they had to go with what they had got.

     


     According to the latest Jack Emmert interview, the reviewers (who gave low scores) aren't credible because they didn't say ahead of time how many players AoC and WAR were going to lose. Crafting wasn't even testable until near the end of beta, like many other sections of the game. They were told by those of us beta testing that ground combat needed a major overhaul pretty much from the start of closed beta, and they admitted early on that they knew there was a problem and were trying to figure out how to handle it. The main problem was that they went around beating the short development time drum to anyone who would listen, Atari did listen and bought them up (and also drew up a business plan to make MMOs every 18-24 months), and then they found out the hard way with both CO and STO that they couldn't deliver with such a short time limit.

    "Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan

  • heartlessheartless Member UncommonPosts: 4,993

    Originally posted by championsFan


    Official:  Original games coming next from Cryptic, not licensed IPs.


    Not surprising as with their track record, Cryptic won't be able to find anyone dumb enough to license an IP out to them.


    I just hope that it's the truth and not more Cryptic lies as I would be really dissapointed if Cryptic released a NWN MMO.

    image

  • DinendaeDinendae Member Posts: 1,264

    Originally posted by prototypo


    I have learned a valuable lesson from this company & that is NEVER PRE-ORDER an MMO. Glad i didn't pre this, but CO on the other hand uh yeah, guess the bright side is that the game is so trash that the box sales will be so low as CO that i can just get those rather spend $14.95, probably spend $3. What's happening to our great generation of mmo's (GW2 please bring us out of the darkness)


     Actually there's nothing wrong with pre-ordering, and it can even save you money as most pre-orders will let you into the beta to take a look at the game and decide if you like it; the problem is with buying a multi-month or lifetime subscriptions before the game has even launched. It was rather clever of Cryptic and Atari to make the lifetime subscriptions for CO only available for one month before beta ended, and making people think that the lifetime offer for STO was the same way.

    "Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan

  • phoboxphobox Member UncommonPosts: 18

    Originally posted by prototypo


    I have learned a valuable lesson from this company & that is NEVER PRE-ORDER an MMO. Glad i didn't pre this, but CO on the other hand uh yeah, guess the bright side is that the game is so trash that the box sales will be so low as CO that i can just get those rather spend $14.95, probably spend $3. What's happening to our great generation of mmo's (GW2 please bring us out of the darkness)


    As did I . I too will never pre-order an MMO unless I beta test it for free. No matter the hype.




    The saddest and most pathetic part about the "sad" developers with hurt feelings is they feel they have the right to express themselves, when we aren't even aloud to express ourselves on their forums, by having our threads deleted. Thanks Cryptic.


    Only way to save this game - re write it from scratch - then re-release it.


     


    This MMO is dead.





    The only way I can possibly imagine you saving STO - is by whole-heartedly embracing Star Trek canon, by adding ALL aspects of STTNG - If you can't even add that content. Then stop making mmo's and go make another Street Fighter clone.


     


     


    Pre-Ordered - Ugh ~_~


    LifeTime Subscription  - Ugh ~_~   Maybe a waste?


    Phobox

    I seek to find the Perfect MMO, do you have what I seek?

  • harvest151harvest151 Member UncommonPosts: 217


    To little to late.


    How do these guys still have jobs?  It boggles the mind.  That answer in cstore items was one of the dumbest most obscure things I have read from cryptic.


    I asked how the company justifies their C-Store and was told by Zinkievich that "if we didn't have that revenue from the C-Store, items in the C-Store wouldn't get made" and that the store allows items to be completed and made available to players more quickly.

  • phoboxphobox Member UncommonPosts: 18

    Originally posted by harvest151


    To little to late.


    How do these guys still have jobs?  It boggles the mind.  That answer in cstore items was one of the dumbest most obscure things I have read from cryptic.


    I asked how the company justifies their C-Store and was told by Zinkievich that "if we didn't have that revenue from the C-Store, items in the C-Store wouldn't get made" and that the store allows items to be completed and made available to players more quickly.


    All the items in this game are practically the same >.<


    Ugh. What a greedy company.

    I seek to find the Perfect MMO, do you have what I seek?

  • DinendaeDinendae Member Posts: 1,264

    Originally posted by Diener


    Why dose no one adress the mountain of spelling and grammer mistakes? No matter how you cut it, when you go a WHOLE day without encountering a single paragraph that looks like it was typed by an adult thats just shotty work.


     Actually Jack Emmert did in the new podcast interview; the reason he gave was I believe that the teams are too busy making new stuff to go back and fix a lot of things such as spelling mistakes.

    "Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan

  • DinendaeDinendae Member Posts: 1,264

    Originally posted by gary0515


    What i find amazing is that no one has yet mentioned that STO has the same basic combat system as the old star fleet battles game wasn't that about a decade ago?


    I played the beta, it has a lot of potential, of course i say that a lot about MMO games. But my statement about paying full price for an unfinished game still stands. Obviously the suits think we must be easy prey, because we buy game after game that is unfinished, cryptic is not the only one out there that does this, remember vanguard? or AION, or AOC? Maybe what we need is a way to rate a game according to how finished it is, I realize this is subjective, but it is doable.


    Another thing that gets me about developers is they ALWAYS say they ran out of funding and therefore had to publish early. I know a programmer isnt a financier, but come on! 


     Actually, some of the people that worked on the Starfleet Command game series commented on that in the STO during open beta. I have also mentioned it in other threads as well, but STO is in fact a dumbed down version of the SFC games; while you  can go up or down (a little), you had far more options available to you as a standard in the SFC ships than you do in STO.

    "Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan

  • dreldrel Member Posts: 918


    Having now played STO and EvE, I find EvE the better of the two games. STO ended up as just a "shooter" game.  EvE, has a much more immersive world. Both games suffer from the inabilites to explore planets and to walk around inside your ship as well as control your ship from the bridge.

  • BsheezyBsheezy Member UncommonPosts: 88

    Originally posted by heartless

    Originally posted by championsFan


    Official:  Original games coming next from Cryptic, not licensed IPs.


    Not surprising as with their track record, Cryptic won't be able to find anyone dumb enough to license an IP out to them.


    I just hope that it's the truth and not more Cryptic lies as I would be really dissapointed if Cryptic released a NWN MMO.


    i feel dumb for playing CO for my free month.  correction, 2 weeks of my first month. 


  • Sorry to say this, but this game is already lost on me. Core features make it a very shallow game in my opinion. The heavy instancing, the boring ground combat, the storyline (which should be one of Star Trek's strong points) that gets totally boring with quests like kill this, collect this, repeat...


    Add shady business methods (like lifetime subscriptions and the store) and I will never touch this game again. Too bad, the potential of the IP could have been great and space combat can be pretty fun (maybe the only thing I enjoyed while beta testing). Conclusion: Cryptic games? No, thanks.

  • SuniojSunioj Member Posts: 261


    "Star Trek is, is different and that everyone has their own take on it so that pleasing everyone is an almost gargantuan and impossibly task."  With that being said, the developers should have skipped working on a game like this.  There is many years of lore and different resources to obtain material from.  It's always easy to make excuses after a game is out and they have gotten money in their pockets.

    Momo sucks, I have proof.

  • depaindepain Member Posts: 263


    Although I absolutely despise microtransactions, I can learn to deal with mere cosmetic outfits. However, when Cryptic started to add in Federation Klingon's, one of which mimics one of the most iconic players in The New Generation, that's where I draw the line. This is like Star Wars charging extra to play as a Wookie - it's just not right.


    Moreover, another thing they did was add in a lil' bonus for the lifetime subscription (playable Borg) - 240 bucks. I really liked the Borg and wanted to play as one during launch. However, I became angry when I found out that the only way to do this was to purchase their $240.00 lifetime subscription.


     


    Cryptic can say whatever they want. They clearly know the passion of the Star Trek fan / collector. They know that Star Trek / Star Wars collectors are beyond the normal capacity. That clearly took advantage over hardcore fans.


     


    I personally will not touch a Cryptic game again.

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