I have a 6 month sub to the game still running... I've just lost my driving desire to play soley because of the GAP there is from new to vet players. I'd say my character is middle of the road slightly leaning on vet... however my point is no one ever really plays the game just to play the game. Everyone is doing the exact same things because it causes skills to raise the fastest or base stats. Logging in to find everyone just trying to grind out shit just got extremely boring... and honestly I ended up realizing I get the same rush killing people in a basic FPS WITHOUT the grind. The problem with DF is that without the grind there is little to do... without pvp there is little to do. I love pvp, but even large scale seiges are about who has a better computer, not who is a good player.
Until they fix the gap there is between players... and fix the seiging system so that the entire server doesn't show up, I'm not playing. Those teleport buildings are also a step in the wrong direction... whatever happened to the idea of no fast travel to encourage players and clans to make a regional home?
And herein lies the root cause of the problem: Too many players come to DF for only one thing - PVP. And - when they find out they can't be uber within a few weeks to a month - they get frustrated and quit.
Everyone who thinks like you is doing the same stupidity - afk swimming...etc. There's a whole other game out there that includes exploration, crafting, pve and even local pvp (don't all have to be seiges) The only person restricting your play is YOU.
I've been playing for over 3 months now and am having a great time - I mix things up so I don't get bored and the game NEVER feels like a grind to me.
One more point - you say you get the same thrill in an FPS - then perhaps that's where you should be playing. MMO's are for a more diverse play style.
I've been playing since Beta in Darkfall, I know all there is to do in the game.... and the one thing that is very clear is that everything a player does in Darkfall is in some way related to their ability to pvp. Yes you may enjoy crafting, or mobbing. But in the end those are side goals in ones main goal of being able to kill people; trust me when I tell you the only reason I am not a super-godly vet player is because I CHOSE to play the game, not grind it. I spent my days on EU constantly hunting other players, I'd consider myself a true PK in the senseit is all I ever want to do... and though the recent changes have been good for the game (What with more experience gained from mobs) I feel left out of the loop because I like to wack on players. I've likely seen the world of Agon more than anyone... I've circled it up to five times a night merely looking for pvp.
Yes, only I am restricting myself from enjoying the game... but in the end my conclusion is the same. The game isn't balanced in a way that encourages the type of gameplay it offers. 90% of the content in the game is geared towards pvp, 99% of people's goals when they are crafting, gathering or mobbing is so that they can pvp better. It's fine if the game wants to focus strongly on pvp, it's not fine when to even compete on a somewhat equal level a player needs to spend 4+ months just to barely be competitive with the vets. It's wrong that people feel the need to afk skill/stat grind. If the game focused less on progression and more on content there is to do it would be easily the best MMO on the market. But right now it's a shallow game with only a carrot on the end of a stick luring people to keep grinding with the hope that once they get to their goal of pvp dominance the game will be everything they want it to be. The worst part is once you reach that goal... and you are godly and can beat nearly anyone not at your level of grind.... it gets boring stomping out people who can't even scratch you.
The game needs a shift of what the challenge is, the challenge should not be who can avoid getting ass-raped until they can do the ass-raping... it should be the challenge of people being on somewhat of a balanced playing field where it's actual player skill, not player stats.
People want to point out their "bingos" well this is mine.
Folks love to point out what else there is to do in DF, but all of it boils down to the end goal of PVP, and gaining strength (not the stat) in the game, be it through ownership of cities, hamlets, better gear, or whatever. I loved the game, its PVE, its crafting (though I despised its gathering to a degree) and even still couldn't keep playing as the goal was all building towards PVP, which even after a heavy investment of time, I still wasn't even close to enjoying.
Really though, what it really boiled down to is what I highlighted above. To watch vets absolutely decimate - single-handidly at times - multiple other players just made it look like a high level in any other game absolutely stomping on a lower level. I always wanted that highly touted skill-based experience, and regardless of how much effort and time I put into DF, that challenge would eventually disappear. I even saw in a few battles how great the PVP could be when competing with and against people near and around your skill levels, and I loved what I saw, but I knew it would never be the average and instead the exception/rarity. And seriously, screw working your ass off to reach the top, only to become bored at stomping on noobs.
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." George Bernard Shaw
What is a cynic? A man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing. Oscar Wilde
I have a 6 month sub to the game still running... I've just lost my driving desire to play soley because of the GAP there is from new to vet players. I'd say my character is middle of the road slightly leaning on vet... however my point is no one ever really plays the game just to play the game. Everyone is doing the exact same things because it causes skills to raise the fastest or base stats. Logging in to find everyone just trying to grind out shit just got extremely boring... and honestly I ended up realizing I get the same rush killing people in a basic FPS WITHOUT the grind. The problem with DF is that without the grind there is little to do... without pvp there is little to do. I love pvp, but even large scale seiges are about who has a better computer, not who is a good player.
Until they fix the gap there is between players... and fix the seiging system so that the entire server doesn't show up, I'm not playing. Those teleport buildings are also a step in the wrong direction... whatever happened to the idea of no fast travel to encourage players and clans to make a regional home?
And herein lies the root cause of the problem: Too many players come to DF for only one thing - PVP. And - when they find out they can't be uber within a few weeks to a month - they get frustrated and quit.
Everyone who thinks like you is doing the same stupidity - afk swimming...etc. There's a whole other game out there that includes exploration, crafting, pve and even local pvp (don't all have to be seiges) The only person restricting your play is YOU.
I've been playing for over 3 months now and am having a great time - I mix things up so I don't get bored and the game NEVER feels like a grind to me.
One more point - you say you get the same thrill in an FPS - then perhaps that's where you should be playing. MMO's are for a more diverse play style.
I've been playing since Beta in Darkfall, I know all there is to do in the game.... and the one thing that is very clear is that everything a player does in Darkfall is in some way related to their ability to pvp. Yes you may enjoy crafting, or mobbing. But in the end those are side goals in ones main goal of being able to kill people; trust me when I tell you the only reason I am not a super-godly vet player is because I CHOSE to play the game, not grind it. I spent my days on EU constantly hunting other players, I'd consider myself a true PK in the senseit is all I ever want to do... and though the recent changes have been good for the game (What with more experience gained from mobs) I feel left out of the loop because I like to wack on players. I've likely seen the world of Agon more than anyone... I've circled it up to five times a night merely looking for pvp.
Yes, only I am restricting myself from enjoying the game... but in the end my conclusion is the same. The game isn't balanced in a way that encourages the type of gameplay it offers. 90% of the content in the game is geared towards pvp, 99% of people's goals when they are crafting, gathering or mobbing is so that they can pvp better. It's fine if the game wants to focus strongly on pvp, it's not fine when to even compete on a somewhat equal level a player needs to spend 4+ months just to barely be competitive with the vets. It's wrong that people feel the need to afk skill/stat grind. If the game focused less on progression and more on content there is to do it would be easily the best MMO on the market. But right now it's a shallow game with only a carrot on the end of a stick luring people to keep grinding with the hope that once they get to their goal of pvp dominance the game will be everything they want it to be. The worst part is once you reach that goal... and you are godly and can beat nearly anyone not at your level of grind.... it gets boring stomping out people who can't even scratch you.
The game needs a shift of what the challenge is, the challenge should not be who can avoid getting ass-raped until they can do the ass-raping... it should be the challenge of people being on somewhat of a balanced playing field where it's actual player skill, not player stats.
People want to point out their "bingos" well this is mine.
Folks love to point out what else there is to do in DF, but all of it boils down to the end goal of PVP, and gaining strength (not the stat) in the game, be it through ownership of cities, hamlets, better gear, or whatever. I loved the game, its PVE, its crafting (though I despised its gathering to a degree) and even still couldn't keep playing as the goal was all building towards PVP, which even after a heavy investment of time, I still wasn't even close to enjoying.
Really though, what it really boiled down to is what I highlighted above. To watch vets absolutely decimate - single-handidly at times - multiple other players just made it look like a high level in any other game absolutely stomping on a lower level. I always wanted that highly touted skill-based experience, and regardless of how much effort and time I put into DF, that challenge would eventually disappear. I even saw in a few battles how great the PVP could be when competing with and against people near and around your skill levels, and I loved what I saw, but I knew it would never be the average and instead the exception/rarity. And seriously, screw working your ass off to reach the top, only to become bored at stomping on noobs.
"And seriously, screw working your ass off to reach the top, only to become bored at stomping on noobs."
If this your end goal then..yep..you'll be bored. I would like more accessible housing for anyone who wants it - not just the wealthy elite. These could be as small as shacks for beginners - with the option for crafting stations, vendors, bank and some harvesting nodes. Also - should be able to be placed anywhere - not just clan hamlets. As the player progresses the smaller house can be traded/sold for a larger one. This would go a long way in improving commerce and safer/easier trading.
The only noobs I'll be stomping on (when I reach top stats) will be PK's that patrol the noob areas - I'll be waiting for you
Currently playing SWTOR and it's MUCH better than it was at launch.
Hey I thought darkfall was just terrible. Couldnt even bring myself to play it for more than a few hours. Its definitely not fun. And most definitely its fun factor doesnt trump watching tv.
Never take life too seriously youre never gonna make it out alive.
"And seriously, screw working your ass off to reach the top, only to become bored at stomping on noobs."
If this your end goal then..yep..you'll be bored. I would like more accessible housing for anyone who wants it - not just the wealthy elite. These could be as small as shacks for beginners - with the option for crafting stations, vendors, bank and some harvesting nodes. Also - should be able to be placed anywhere - not just clan hamlets. As the player progresses the smaller house can be traded/sold for a larger one. This would go a long way in improving commerce and safer/easier trading.
The only noobs I'll be stomping on (when I reach top stats) will be PK's that patrol the noob areas - I'll be waiting for you
Lol... I was only adding my personal thoughts to a very well-made point above mine. Way to ignore those points, and only address my personal feelings, which are, of course, opiniion. Nice job taking the easy way out.
But while I'm at it...
It's noone's end goal to be at that point, but it's where all roads lead. Trouble is, so few make it there that if you play long enough, that's where you'll end up. It wasn't my goal to be there - my goal was to be competitive with the majority, and while that's such a variable thing at any given time, the pressure is always there to be as good as you can, and as prepared as you can. If that's not your goal, then you're playing a PVE game, or a crafting game, and most will quickly inform you that there's better games out there for that. If that's what you make of it, and you want to label the game "sandbox" for the sake of doing so, go nuts! End of the day, most folks log into Darkfall for the promise of PVP, and to try and argue otherwise is delusional at best. The game does everything it can to stifle quality PVP, and that's a fact, no matter how you want to tip-toe around it.
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." George Bernard Shaw
What is a cynic? A man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing. Oscar Wilde
These threads of people crying about the grind in darkfall are pathetic. Its an MMO. If you want to jump in and be able too get kills on vets go play Halo or CoD or some other FPS. In case anyones wondering, this is my 6th week of playing and i'v been grinding my ass off getting skills and stats up, and its been rewarding and a good time playing with the clan and having competition with other low skill characters. I'm just now getting to the point that I can put up a fight in PvP if attacked by a vet and I can actually contribute when my clan goes out PvPing, but i'v still got a long road ahead.
1. Its not an easy game, it doesnt claim to be, and if you aren't willing too practice and work to be good in PvP in the game then you never will be.
2. You don't just sit and mindlessly grind the same skill over and over again. Mix it up, afk swim when you go to sleep, and make a point to go pvp once in awhile regardless of whether you'll get your ass kicked.
3. You wouldn't just jump into any other MMO and expect too beat the veteran players from day 1? so why the hell would you expect to do it here? It will take 2 - 3 MONTHS of playing the game too achieve a good competitive PvP status.
4. The game is fun. Grinding is Aion, WoW, ect where you just hit buttons. In Darkfall it actually takes skill and strategies too even kill PvE mobs. If you can't hack it, go back to button mashing this game isnt for you.
Stop Crying. If you want to be good at PvP in Darkfall then do what it takes and do it or stfu and go play some carebear game.
These threads of people crying about the grind in darkfall are pathetic. Its an MMO. If you want to jump in and be able too get kills on vets go play Halo or CoD or some other FPS. In case anyones wondering, this is my 6th week of playing and i'v been grinding my ass off getting skills and stats up, and its been rewarding and a good time playing with the clan and having competition with other low skill characters. I'm just now getting to the point that I can put up a fight in PvP if attacked by a vet and I can actually contribute when my clan goes out PvPing, but i'v still got a long road ahead.
1. Its not an easy game, it doesnt claim to be, and if you aren't willing too practice and work to be good in PvP in the game then you never will be.
2. You don't just sit and mindlessly grind the same skill over and over again. Mix it up, afk swim when you go to sleep, and make a point to go pvp once in awhile regardless of whether you'll get your ass kicked.
3. You wouldn't just jump into any other MMO and expect too beat the veteran players from day 1? so why the hell would you expect to do it here? It will take 2 - 3 MONTHS of playing the game too achieve a good competitive PvP status.
4. The game is fun. Grinding is Aion, WoW, ect where you just hit buttons. In Darkfall it actually takes skill and strategies too even kill PvE mobs. If you can't hack it, go back to button mashing this game isnt for you.
Stop Crying. If you want to be good at PvP in Darkfall then do what it takes and do it or stfu and go play some carebear game.
Yeah baby - what he said ^
Currently playing SWTOR and it's MUCH better than it was at launch.
These threads of people crying about the grind in darkfall are pathetic. Its an MMO. If you want to jump in and be able too get kills on vets go play Halo or CoD or some other FPS. In case anyones wondering, this is my 6th week of playing and i'v been grinding my ass off getting skills and stats up, and its been rewarding and a good time playing with the clan and having competition with other low skill characters. I'm just now getting to the point that I can put up a fight in PvP if attacked by a vet and I can actually contribute when my clan goes out PvPing, but i'v still got a long road ahead.
1. Its not an easy game, it doesnt claim to be, and if you aren't willing too practice and work to be good in PvP in the game then you never will be.
2. You don't just sit and mindlessly grind the same skill over and over again. Mix it up, afk swim when you go to sleep, and make a point to go pvp once in awhile regardless of whether you'll get your ass kicked.
3. You wouldn't just jump into any other MMO and expect too beat the veteran players from day 1? so why the hell would you expect to do it here? It will take 2 - 3 MONTHS of playing the game too achieve a good competitive PvP status.
4. The game is fun. Grinding is Aion, WoW, ect where you just hit buttons. In Darkfall it actually takes skill and strategies too even kill PvE mobs. If you can't hack it, go back to button mashing this game isnt for you.
Stop Crying. If you want to be good at PvP in Darkfall then do what it takes and do it or stfu and go play some carebear game.
I really don't want to leave my computer running a graphically intensive game on 24 hours a day just for decent health.
If someone could tell me a way to run Darkfall while afk swimming where it doesn't use a lot of resources, I might be inclined to do it, although I still think it's beyond dumb that you basically have to do this to be competative within 3 months, and you have to play a stupid game with the GMs where they pretend its agains the rules but it's really not.
The rest of your reply I agree with (minus the snarky tone), and I definitely despise Aion and games like it. I love the combat of Darkfall still even though I'm not playing it currently.
*********
Quote (I can't figure out how to quote a second reply):
I've never AFK'd anything or found DF to be a grind. Since you asked my stats..here they are:
STATS:
HP 293
Stam 302
Mana 199
Strength 52.77
Vitality 56.10
Dexterity 28.61
Quickness 46.51
Intelligence 33.20
Wisdom 58.32
SKILLS:
Greatswords 93.05
GS Mastery 54.95
I have remarkably similar stats to you, except for 2 of them, those being str and vit. The quickest way to get those is by afk swimming. I imagine if I afk swam for the next two months every night when I was done playing, I'd have similar str and vit to you. I really find it hard to believe you never afk swam. Either you mine and log like a motherf*cker, you constantly pve/pvp with a melee weapon (highly unlikely considering I have like the same GS rating and I don't), or you're just lying about never afk swimming. There's nothing wrong with afk swimming- everyone does it. It just seems so dumb and I don't want to wear out my GPU for something like that.
On a totally different note, my archery and witchcraft are way higher than yours, but my fire magic is at about 44.5. Did you find a big jump in your competativeness after getting fire magic to 50? If I felt like just getting it to 50 or 60 like you have it could make a big difference, that might entice me to resub to at least complete that and see how it goes.
****
I think you would consider this great advice since it's your own and stay sudscribed.
"MMORPGs are about the ride, not the destination, even Darkfall. If you play any MMORPG just to get to endgame as fast as possible, you are almost definitely going to be dissapointed by what you find, because your expectations will be so high. It's just like someone that spends their entire life overworking to get "that great car" or "that great house". They are bound to be burned out and dissapointed by the time they actually achieve their goal." Holdenhamlet
Hmm, yes those are wise words lol. It is possible I did burn myself out. Like I mentioned, I was grinding 8+ hours a day.
Another thing I didn't get a chance to try was being part of a real clan. I had just joined one when my sub ran out.
These threads of people crying about the grind in darkfall are pathetic. Its an MMO. If you want to jump in and be able too get kills on vets go play Halo or CoD or some other FPS. In case anyones wondering, this is my 6th week of playing and i'v been grinding my ass off getting skills and stats up, and its been rewarding and a good time playing with the clan and having competition with other low skill characters. I'm just now getting to the point that I can put up a fight in PvP if attacked by a vet and I can actually contribute when my clan goes out PvPing, but i'v still got a long road ahead.
1. Its not an easy game, it doesnt claim to be, and if you aren't willing too practice and work to be good in PvP in the game then you never will be.
2. You don't just sit and mindlessly grind the same skill over and over again. Mix it up, afk swim when you go to sleep, and make a point to go pvp once in awhile regardless of whether you'll get your ass kicked.
3. You wouldn't just jump into any other MMO and expect too beat the veteran players from day 1? so why the hell would you expect to do it here? It will take 2 - 3 MONTHS of playing the game too achieve a good competitive PvP status.
4. The game is fun. Grinding is Aion, WoW, ect where you just hit buttons. In Darkfall it actually takes skill and strategies too even kill PvE mobs. If you can't hack it, go back to button mashing this game isnt for you.
Stop Crying. If you want to be good at PvP in Darkfall then do what it takes and do it or stfu and go play some carebear game.
1. From what I see these people don't want the game to be easy, they want it to be justified.
2. To get anywhere at a decent pace people do those afk tasks, leaving my computer running the game all day and night is a little extreme just to skill gain. (which is bannable)
3. They don't expect to be a vet in a day, they expect there to be more to the game then there currently is
4. The game is fun IF you avoid grinding, but in doing so you instantly lose out on getting to most of the core content of the game which is competitive pvp.
You've only been in the game for 6 weeks, congrats. You right there prove to me you know nothing not only of the current state of the game but also what the game was MEANT to be before it became what it currently is.
Let me try and break this down.
Why do you go mobbing?
You'll answer will be loot and skill gains. Okay, so why do you want the loot and skill gains? Because the loot you get will either be put towards use in pvp or used to grind skills afk in whatever player-city you're in when you go to bed; skills you want so that you do more damage in pvp.
Why do you gather / craft?
Because it's nice to be able to make good stuff right? Okay... what's that stuff used for primarily? Yeah that's right, pvp.
Why do you explore?
If you haven't seen all of agon it can be interesting, otherwise players like myself are looking for pvp hot spots, ambush points and escape routes... all for pvp
Why do you join a clan and stay in a player-city?
So that you have people to do all the above with, all roads of course leading to pvp.
The problem is very clear, with a game so heavily focused on pvp you CANNOT have a system of skill gaining that caters to people who either play all day or cheat to get there (AFK anything is cheating). With the grind there currently is it's no wonder people so readily risk being banned from the game, they want to compete in pvp but know they'll be stomped if they don't take the risk of losing their account. Many people like the OP will start out strong and think it's not so bad... but it wears you down quickly. Yes in a few months you should be able to compete, but even then the vets will stomp people with their base stats... turns out their rather important considering last time I logged in the current trend was for everyone to make thousands of repair shards because it raised vitality the quickest. What you need to understand is that people purposely look for the quickest way to skill up instead of not worrying about it, clans look for exploits and once they find one it's all they do for a vast majority of the day.
WHEN YOU FORCE PLAYERS IN YOUR GAME TO FEEL THE NEED TO LOOK FOR EXPLOITS OR THE FASTEST POSSIBLE WAY TO GAIN SKILLS SOMETHING IS WRONG. The game instead of being a living world with many things to do is really not a world at all. The choices you have in the game are actually very limmited.. you have crafting, gathering, mobbing and pvp. two of those four choices are rather bland, and mobbing itself like the first three lead directly to pvp.
People are not asking for an easy game, they are asking for a justified game where what they do can make a noticable difference in a decent amount of time. In a game where pvp is so prevalent you can't have such a large gap in the abilities of players. Should there be a gap? Of course, but not as drastic as it is where even my character who isn't even vet can wipe the floor with 5+ new players without much effort. People want fair (to an extent) fights, fights that are determined by player skill, not stat level. Like someone said earlier the best times I had in DF wwas the first few weeks of EU launch, when everyone was on the same playing field a players skill really shined through. Once people started grinding up the game died in my eyes, magic also helped kill this game for me slowly. Magic is fine, but AOE spam that requires zero aim I have an issue with.
Of course all roads lead to PvP right now. Its a FFA full loot game. They are however, adding PvE content in every major patch. A hardcore player can attain decent PvP status in 2 months if he grinds and afk swuns (by the way, running Darkfall is not a major drain on your pc and the game is Far from Graphically Intensive) A casual player that plays a couple hours a night before he goes to bet, can expect too reach that same level in 3 or 4 moonths, which is not unreasonable. You get out of Darkfall what you put into it, just like in any game. And once your character has achieved that PvP level, you never have to do any of that other stuff again if you don't want. Personally I enjpy getting a partner and going to kill IceJarls and things like that, its fun. Four months of casual gaming to reach a good PvP level in DF I would think is justifiable. I'm an old original EQ player though, maybe thats just my opinion that you shouldnt be able to cap a character in a month.
Also, AFk swimming in a circle is not bannable. I see plenty of people doing it every single night. Attended Macroing with a G15 or G19 keyboard is not bannable, lots of people do that.
Hacking ie: aimbot, radar, teleports, auto loot, ect are all things that will get your accoutn permanently banned with no warnings.
Of course all roads lead to PvP right now. Its a FFA full loot game. They are however, adding PvE content in every major patch. A hardcore player can attain decent PvP status in 2 months if he grinds and afk swuns (by the way, running Darkfall is not a major drain on your pc and the game is Far from Graphically Intensive) A casual player that plays a couple hours a night before he goes to bet, can expect too reach that same level in 3 or 4 moonths, which is not unreasonable. You get out of Darkfall what you put into it, just like in any game. And once your character has achieved that PvP level, you never have to do any of that other stuff again if you don't want. Personally I enjpy getting a partner and going to kill IceJarls and things like that, its fun. Four months of casual gaming to reach a good PvP level in DF I would think is justifiable. I'm an old original EQ player though, maybe thats just my opinion that you shouldnt be able to cap a character in a month.
Also, AFk swimming in a circle is not bannable. I see plenty of people doing it every single night. Attended Macroing with a G15 or G19 keyboard is not bannable, lots of people do that.
Hacking ie: aimbot, radar, teleports, auto loot, ect are all things that will get your accoutn permanently banned with no warnings.
So, in a full-loot pvp game the gap between players ability to perform should be so big as to vets 3 hitting newer players and those newer players not being even remotely able to defend themselves? Doesn't sound like thrilling pvp to me... sounds like a slaughter. Why do you think vets argue so much agaisn't stat / skill gains happening faster? Because if they lose their edge they may actually lose to BETTER players.
Of course all roads lead to PvP right now. Its a FFA full loot game. They are however, adding PvE content in every major patch. A hardcore player can attain decent PvP status in 2 months if he grinds and afk swuns (by the way, running Darkfall is not a major drain on your pc and the game is Far from Graphically Intensive) A casual player that plays a couple hours a night before he goes to bet, can expect too reach that same level in 3 or 4 moonths, which is not unreasonable. You get out of Darkfall what you put into it, just like in any game. And once your character has achieved that PvP level, you never have to do any of that other stuff again if you don't want. Personally I enjpy getting a partner and going to kill IceJarls and things like that, its fun. Four months of casual gaming to reach a good PvP level in DF I would think is justifiable. I'm an old original EQ player though, maybe thats just my opinion that you shouldnt be able to cap a character in a month.
Also, AFk swimming in a circle is not bannable. I see plenty of people doing it every single night. Attended Macroing with a G15 or G19 keyboard is not bannable, lots of people do that.
Hacking ie: aimbot, radar, teleports, auto loot, ect are all things that will get your accoutn permanently banned with no warnings.
So, in a full-loot pvp game the gap between players ability to perform should be so big as to vets 3 hitting newer players and those newer players not being even remotely able to defend themselves? Doesn't sound like thrilling pvp to me... sounds like a slaughter. Why do you think vets argue so much agaisn't stat / skill gains happening faster? Because if they lose their edge they may actually lose to BETTER players.
I absolutely do believe just that yes. A vet has been in game a lot longer than a new player and has earned the skills and stats to three hit decapitate that newbie. I have been killed hundreds of times getting to the point that I am at right now, and sure its no fun getting ganked by a veteran powerhouse, but thats part of the game for a newbie. Now, its a lot more rewarding for me to be able to go out and hold my own against those guys who were previously kicking my ass, because i'v made my character strong enough to do that. The vets argue against it because they put in the work with the skill/stat gains set right where they are, so why should a new player get catered too? The vets made it in the world fine and reached the level they're at by playing the game, a new player that likes the game will to. Hell they already get newbie protection.
Also, your not taking into account the political system in DFO. If a new player could jump in and be competitve statwise in a week or two to a 6 month veteran, then what would stop certain Zerg Clans (won't mention any names BLOOD) from just ammassing a bunch of trial accounts under their banner, giving them some weapons and armor and taking major holdings all over the map?
The "grind" in darkfall is just where it needs to be. You earn your right to be able to kick somone elses ass, or you rage quit because you can't stand getting ganked by someone thats put their time in. Either put in the time and effort it takes to be on par with the big boys, or you can't hack it and you quit or decide its not for you ect.
You do to me, and I think you made my own point for me, better than I did.
@dcoleman07: All still forms of cheating. That you defend the use of a macro keyboard because they allow it, but disallow programs that accomplish the exact same thing is astonishing. That you differentiate (and imply that the GM's do) between swimming into a wall vs. swimming in circles (the difference of which is leaving an arrow key held down) is just as bad. That you defend the grind, while you yourself do the above things to avoid itdirectly shows that you certainly have no respect for the grind yourself, and therefore have no right whatsoever to critisize those who wish for the grind to be reduced. After all, you're already reducing your own grind, in ways that go against the very nature of the game itself, and its rules.
I'll add that a friend of mine, made while playing Darkfall, had no issue with the grind whatsoever. Why? He macro'd while he slept, and AFK swam as much as possible. He worked at home, at a computer, so while he did his job, DF was constantly running in the background while he mined or logged. His character was in motion doing something 24/7, and as a result, the things that a player like myself would value, had little to no value to him. "So what if you lose your gear" he'd say. Of course, the gear had little meaning to him as he could craft it himself with materials gained while he basically wasn't playing the game. "Your HP is fine!" he'd say, while he had scores more health than I had, due to his constant swimming, mining, and logging while not actually playing the game. The point is, that people like this do everything they can to avoid actually playing the game. They're not there watching their toons while they mine. They're not gaining every last point while at their PC. Hell, the guy I'm referring to played maybe 4-5 active hours a day doing PVE, or PVP. The rest was consumed by essentially AFK activities. It's part of why I eventually just said "No thanks" to Darkfall.
I'm not going to dedicate my time playing the game to that degree, nor am I going to participate in AFK activities all day long just to be compeitive. I want to play the damned game and become competitive, and Darkfall doesn't even reward you for doing so as well as it does the above example. The people who love the game so dearly are those who play like that, or dedicate astronomical amounts of time. It goes far and above "difficulty" and/or "earning your place".
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." George Bernard Shaw
What is a cynic? A man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing. Oscar Wilde
I have been killed hundreds of times getting to the point that I am at right now, and sure its no fun getting ganked by a veteran powerhouse, but thats part of the game for a newbie.
LOL! Exaggerate much?
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." George Bernard Shaw
What is a cynic? A man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing. Oscar Wilde
You do to me, and I think you made my own point for me, better than I did.
@dcoleman07: All still forms of cheating. That you defend the use of a macro keyboard because they allow it, but disallow programs that accomplish the exact same thing is astonishing. That you differentiate (and imply that the GM's do) between swimming into a wall vs. swimming in circles (the difference of which is leaving an arrow key held down) is just as bad. That you defend the grind, while you yourself do the above things to avoid itdirectly shows that you certainly have no respect for the grind yourself, and therefore have no right whatsoever to critisize those who wish for the grind to be reduced. After all, you're already reducing your own grind, in ways that go against the very nature of the game itself, and its rules.
I'll add that a friend of mine, made while playing Darkfall, had no issue with the grind whatsoever. Why? He macro'd while he slept, and AFK swam as much as possible. He worked at home, at a computer, so while he did his job, DF was constantly running in the background while he mined or logged. His character was in motion doing something 24/7, and as a result, the things that a player like myself would value, had little to no value to him. "So what if you lose your gear" he'd say. Of course, the gear had little meaning to him as he could craft it himself with materials gained while he basically wasn't playing the game. "Your HP is fine!" he'd say, while he had scores more health than I had, due to his constant swimming, mining, and logging while not actually playing the game. The point is, that people like this do everything they can to avoid actually playing the game. They're not there watching their toons while they mine. They're not gaining every last point while at their PC. Hell, the guy I'm referring to played maybe 4-5 active hours a day doing PVE, or PVP. The rest was consumed by essentially AFK activities. It's part of why I eventually just said "No thanks" to Darkfall.
I'm not going to dedicate my time playing the game to that degree, nor am I going to participate in AFK activities all day long just to be compeitive. I want to play the damned game and become competitive, and Darkfall doesn't even reward you for doing so as well as it does the above example. The people who love the game so dearly are those who play like that, or dedicate astronomical amounts of time. It goes far and above "difficulty" and/or "earning your place".
When you find a keyboard that can aim your swings for you, give you a radar, teleport you all over the map, and auto loot 100 things in a couple seconds then please let me know. There IS a difference in running unattended scripts and letting your keyboard press buttons mindlessly for you while your sitting at the computer.
AFK swimming is an accepted form of getting your stats and skills up and is part of the game. Iit has become a part of the grind in itself.
When you find a keyboard that can aim your swings for you, give you a radar, teleport you all over the map, and auto loot 100 things in a couple seconds then please let me know. There IS a difference in running unattended scripts and letting your keyboard press buttons mindlessly for you while your sitting at the computer.
AFK swimming is an accepted form of getting your stats and skills up and is part of the game. Iit has become a part of the grind in itself.
So you're saying that a simple macro program can aim for you, give you radar, and teleport you? Huge difference between a program like autoit, and a hack. Besides, we all know the people who are using G15's and the like aren't sitting at their damn keyboard letting it "press bottons mindlessly".
And yeah, I know that AFK swimming is an "accepted" part of the game. So was AFK macro'ing skills before they took a stance against it. Regardless, I'm positive it's exactly what the devs had in mind when they made the game, and I'm sure they're thrilled that people stay logged into their servers 24/7, using their bandwith, just so they can AFK swim. Clearly, this is brilliant game design at work - progress in the game without playing the game. They'd do better just to let a person automatically gain VIT while logged out and call it offline progression, ala EVE style. That said, it still doesn't explain why they kick players who AFK swim, and ban others who are caught repeatedly. You're still trying to defend the player's stance, which isn't shared by the GM's/devs, and you still tried to differentiate between AFK swimming into a wall, vs. swimming in a circle. Funny stuff.
If it's not an exaggeration, you mean to tell me that you meaningfully got "ganked" 5+ times per day, for the 42 days (6 weeks) you've played? As in, you ran 5-15 minutes to a nice camp, got there, made some progress, and then got smoked by a guy you had no chance against? This happened "hundreds of times"? I don't mean getting killed while you stand naked banking. I don't mean chasing after some guy with your starter staff while you wear a robe, then him turning on you and chopping your head off. I mean legitimate, you're out in the world having fun grinding doing your thing and making solid progress for a period of time when all the sudden you're dead before you barely realize it ganking. I have my doubts, sir.
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." George Bernard Shaw
What is a cynic? A man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing. Oscar Wilde
When you find a keyboard that can aim your swings for you, give you a radar, teleport you all over the map, and auto loot 100 things in a couple seconds then please let me know. There IS a difference in running unattended scripts and letting your keyboard press buttons mindlessly for you while your sitting at the computer.
AFK swimming is an accepted form of getting your stats and skills up and is part of the game. Iit has become a part of the grind in itself.
So you're saying that a simple macro program can aim for you, give you radar, and teleport you? Huge difference between a program like autoit, and a hack. Besides, we all know the people who are using G15's and the like aren't sitting at their damn keyboard letting it "press bottons mindlessly".
And yeah, I know that AFK swimming is an "accepted" part of the game. So was AFK macro'ing skills before they took a stance against it. Regardless, I'm positive it's exactly what the devs had in mind when they made the game, and I'm sure they're thrilled that people stay logged into their servers 24/7, using their bandwith, just so they can AFK swim. Clearly, this is brilliant game design at work - progress in the game without playing the game. They'd do better just to let a person automatically gain VIT while logged out and call it offline progression, ala EVE style. That said, it still doesn't explain why they kick players who AFK swim, and ban others who are caught repeatedly. You're still trying to defend the player's stance, which isn't shared by the GM's/devs, and you still tried to differentiate between AFK swimming into a wall, vs. swimming in a circle. Funny stuff.
If it's not an exaggeration, you mean to tell me that you meaningfully got "ganked" 5+ times per day, for the 42 days (6 weeks) you've played? As in, you ran 5-15 minutes to a nice camp, got there, made some progress, and then got smoked by a guy you had no chance against? This happened "hundreds of times"? I don't mean getting killed while you stand naked banking. I don't mean chasing after some guy with your starter staff while you wear a robe, then him turning on you and chopping your head off. I mean legitimate, you're out in the world having fun grinding doing your thing and making solid progress for a period of time when all the sudden you're dead before you barely realize it ganking. I have my doubts, sir.
I never said the game design was perfect, and as far as the difference in AFK swimming in a circle or into a wall, it was stated by the Devs/GM's that apparently there is a difference. I don't know what it is, and I don't really care. But it is What it is, and what i'm saying is that if you can't hang with the game and do what it takes to be on par with the more skilled up players then don't come on a Darkfall forum and piss and moan about it because you can't hack it.
The times that I have been PvP killed are spread out between me being ganked in the open world which is the majority of it, a few sieges i'v been in accounted for a whole of deaths, getting ganked while afk, and a few times dueling other clanmates for practice.
Anything else you want too pick apart, or do you just generally not like the game?
When you find a keyboard that can aim your swings for you, give you a radar, teleport you all over the map, and auto loot 100 things in a couple seconds then please let me know. There IS a difference in running unattended scripts and letting your keyboard press buttons mindlessly for you while your sitting at the computer.
AFK swimming is an accepted form of getting your stats and skills up and is part of the game. Iit has become a part of the grind in itself.
So you're saying that a simple macro program can aim for you, give you radar, and teleport you? Huge difference between a program like autoit, and a hack. Besides, we all know the people who are using G15's and the like aren't sitting at their damn keyboard letting it "press bottons mindlessly".
And yeah, I know that AFK swimming is an "accepted" part of the game. So was AFK macro'ing skills before they took a stance against it. Regardless, I'm positive it's exactly what the devs had in mind when they made the game, and I'm sure they're thrilled that people stay logged into their servers 24/7, using their bandwith, just so they can AFK swim. Clearly, this is brilliant game design at work - progress in the game without playing the game. They'd do better just to let a person automatically gain VIT while logged out and call it offline progression, ala EVE style. That said, it still doesn't explain why they kick players who AFK swim, and ban others who are caught repeatedly. You're still trying to defend the player's stance, which isn't shared by the GM's/devs, and you still tried to differentiate between AFK swimming into a wall, vs. swimming in a circle. Funny stuff.
If it's not an exaggeration, you mean to tell me that you meaningfully got "ganked" 5+ times per day, for the 42 days (6 weeks) you've played? As in, you ran 5-15 minutes to a nice camp, got there, made some progress, and then got smoked by a guy you had no chance against? This happened "hundreds of times"? I don't mean getting killed while you stand naked banking. I don't mean chasing after some guy with your starter staff while you wear a robe, then him turning on you and chopping your head off. I mean legitimate, you're out in the world having fun grinding doing your thing and making solid progress for a period of time when all the sudden you're dead before you barely realize it ganking. I have my doubts, sir.
I never said the game design was perfect, and as far as the difference in AFK swimming in a circle or into a wall, it was stated by the Devs/GM's that apparently there is a difference. I don't know what it is, and I don't really care. But it is What it is, and what i'm saying is that if you can't hang with the game and do what it takes to be on par with the more skilled up players then don't come on a Darkfall forum and piss and moan about it because you can't hack it.
The times that I have been PvP killed are spread out between me being ganked in the open world which is the majority of it, a few sieges i'v been in accounted for a whole of deaths, getting ganked while afk, and a few times dueling other clanmates for practice.
Anything else you want too pick apart, or do you just generally not like the game?
I actually really loved the game, but hated the grind. Bainwalker's already explained my feelings on the subject to a T, and did a better job of it than even I could. Re-read for reference if need-be.
I know that there's a skill in the game named "gank", but that's not what I'm referring to when I say gank. I don't mean gettnig killed when you willingly go into an encounter with another player, such as you pointing out sieges. Getting killed while AFK doesn't fit the criterea either, and not just mine, but the widely accepted usage of the term. It certainly doesn't fit when you get ganked while fighting your buds, though if you're dumb enough to get ganked, while sparring, in your own town/hamlet, then that's kinda sad in its own way. No, I just mean when you're out in the world, doing your thing, playing the game, when some guy just comes along and wastes your ass. Simple as that.
I'm not trying to nitpick anything, by the by. I wouldn't even be involved in this discussion if it weren't for condescending pricks like yourself who think that just dealing with the grind is a badge of honor. I was hacking it just fine, and had some great times when I played. That said, the reward wasn't worth the effort in the long run, nor was the sacrifice of my time on a daily basis to take part in such a game, with the people who populated it, such as yourself. That's not so hard to understand, is it? Like I said - re-read Bainwalker's posts if you need further clarification.
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." George Bernard Shaw
What is a cynic? A man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing. Oscar Wilde
there you go buddy ^^^ and my bad, it was 169 not 147 deaths, just to further prove my point
Cool, 169 deaths =/= "hundreds". Also, that's on average 4 deaths per day. That doesn't factor in how many times you died to players you willingly attacked, but lost to. It doesn't factor in deaths to clanmates/friends that you allowed to kill you for rep gains, or those "whoops" moments during spars with buds when you accidentally get decapped. It doesn't really even count for that much at all, at the end of the day. I'd bet most likely, you probably got good and ganked 1 to 2 times per day, and 3 times on a bad day and on some days, probably none at all. Not too bad imo. In fact, I'd say you were barely hassled at all. Thanks for proving that indeed, you've had a really, really hard time.
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." George Bernard Shaw
What is a cynic? A man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing. Oscar Wilde
Thats assuming that I have played every single day for all 6 weeks, which I have not. 4 deaths a day can be a lot if you play a few hours when you can during the week days. 1 three or four hour game session, thats more than 1 death per hour. Thats darkfall.
Comments
When you said 'games like tera' coming out? What other games are good like tera that you had in mind? Also, is when is tera coming out?
http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197968051393
People want to point out their "bingos" well this is mine.
Folks love to point out what else there is to do in DF, but all of it boils down to the end goal of PVP, and gaining strength (not the stat) in the game, be it through ownership of cities, hamlets, better gear, or whatever. I loved the game, its PVE, its crafting (though I despised its gathering to a degree) and even still couldn't keep playing as the goal was all building towards PVP, which even after a heavy investment of time, I still wasn't even close to enjoying.
Really though, what it really boiled down to is what I highlighted above. To watch vets absolutely decimate - single-handidly at times - multiple other players just made it look like a high level in any other game absolutely stomping on a lower level. I always wanted that highly touted skill-based experience, and regardless of how much effort and time I put into DF, that challenge would eventually disappear. I even saw in a few battles how great the PVP could be when competing with and against people near and around your skill levels, and I loved what I saw, but I knew it would never be the average and instead the exception/rarity. And seriously, screw working your ass off to reach the top, only to become bored at stomping on noobs.
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."
George Bernard Shaw
What is a cynic? A man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.
Oscar Wilde
"And seriously, screw working your ass off to reach the top, only to become bored at stomping on noobs."
If this your end goal then..yep..you'll be bored. I would like more accessible housing for anyone who wants it - not just the wealthy elite. These could be as small as shacks for beginners - with the option for crafting stations, vendors, bank and some harvesting nodes. Also - should be able to be placed anywhere - not just clan hamlets. As the player progresses the smaller house can be traded/sold for a larger one. This would go a long way in improving commerce and safer/easier trading.
The only noobs I'll be stomping on (when I reach top stats) will be PK's that patrol the noob areas - I'll be waiting for you
Currently playing SWTOR and it's MUCH better than it was at launch.
Hey I thought darkfall was just terrible. Couldnt even bring myself to play it for more than a few hours. Its definitely not fun. And most definitely its fun factor doesnt trump watching tv.
Never take life too seriously youre never gonna make it out alive.
Lol... I was only adding my personal thoughts to a very well-made point above mine. Way to ignore those points, and only address my personal feelings, which are, of course, opiniion. Nice job taking the easy way out.
But while I'm at it...
It's noone's end goal to be at that point, but it's where all roads lead. Trouble is, so few make it there that if you play long enough, that's where you'll end up. It wasn't my goal to be there - my goal was to be competitive with the majority, and while that's such a variable thing at any given time, the pressure is always there to be as good as you can, and as prepared as you can. If that's not your goal, then you're playing a PVE game, or a crafting game, and most will quickly inform you that there's better games out there for that. If that's what you make of it, and you want to label the game "sandbox" for the sake of doing so, go nuts! End of the day, most folks log into Darkfall for the promise of PVP, and to try and argue otherwise is delusional at best. The game does everything it can to stifle quality PVP, and that's a fact, no matter how you want to tip-toe around it.
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."
George Bernard Shaw
What is a cynic? A man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.
Oscar Wilde
These threads of people crying about the grind in darkfall are pathetic. Its an MMO. If you want to jump in and be able too get kills on vets go play Halo or CoD or some other FPS. In case anyones wondering, this is my 6th week of playing and i'v been grinding my ass off getting skills and stats up, and its been rewarding and a good time playing with the clan and having competition with other low skill characters. I'm just now getting to the point that I can put up a fight in PvP if attacked by a vet and I can actually contribute when my clan goes out PvPing, but i'v still got a long road ahead.
1. Its not an easy game, it doesnt claim to be, and if you aren't willing too practice and work to be good in PvP in the game then you never will be.
2. You don't just sit and mindlessly grind the same skill over and over again. Mix it up, afk swim when you go to sleep, and make a point to go pvp once in awhile regardless of whether you'll get your ass kicked.
3. You wouldn't just jump into any other MMO and expect too beat the veteran players from day 1? so why the hell would you expect to do it here? It will take 2 - 3 MONTHS of playing the game too achieve a good competitive PvP status.
4. The game is fun. Grinding is Aion, WoW, ect where you just hit buttons. In Darkfall it actually takes skill and strategies too even kill PvE mobs. If you can't hack it, go back to button mashing this game isnt for you.
Stop Crying. If you want to be good at PvP in Darkfall then do what it takes and do it or stfu and go play some carebear game.
Yeah baby - what he said ^
Currently playing SWTOR and it's MUCH better than it was at launch.
I really don't want to leave my computer running a graphically intensive game on 24 hours a day just for decent health.
If someone could tell me a way to run Darkfall while afk swimming where it doesn't use a lot of resources, I might be inclined to do it, although I still think it's beyond dumb that you basically have to do this to be competative within 3 months, and you have to play a stupid game with the GMs where they pretend its agains the rules but it's really not.
The rest of your reply I agree with (minus the snarky tone), and I definitely despise Aion and games like it. I love the combat of Darkfall still even though I'm not playing it currently.
*********
Quote (I can't figure out how to quote a second reply):
I've never AFK'd anything or found DF to be a grind. Since you asked my stats..here they are:
STATS:
HP 293
Stam 302
Mana 199
Strength 52.77
Vitality 56.10
Dexterity 28.61
Quickness 46.51
Intelligence 33.20
Wisdom 58.32
SKILLS:
Greatswords 93.05
GS Mastery 54.95
I have remarkably similar stats to you, except for 2 of them, those being str and vit. The quickest way to get those is by afk swimming. I imagine if I afk swam for the next two months every night when I was done playing, I'd have similar str and vit to you. I really find it hard to believe you never afk swam. Either you mine and log like a motherf*cker, you constantly pve/pvp with a melee weapon (highly unlikely considering I have like the same GS rating and I don't), or you're just lying about never afk swimming. There's nothing wrong with afk swimming- everyone does it. It just seems so dumb and I don't want to wear out my GPU for something like that.
On a totally different note, my archery and witchcraft are way higher than yours, but my fire magic is at about 44.5. Did you find a big jump in your competativeness after getting fire magic to 50? If I felt like just getting it to 50 or 60 like you have it could make a big difference, that might entice me to resub to at least complete that and see how it goes.
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I think you would consider this great advice since it's your own and stay sudscribed.
"MMORPGs are about the ride, not the destination, even Darkfall. If you play any MMORPG just to get to endgame as fast as possible, you are almost definitely going to be dissapointed by what you find, because your expectations will be so high. It's just like someone that spends their entire life overworking to get "that great car" or "that great house". They are bound to be burned out and dissapointed by the time they actually achieve their goal." Holdenhamlet
Hmm, yes those are wise words lol. It is possible I did burn myself out. Like I mentioned, I was grinding 8+ hours a day.
Another thing I didn't get a chance to try was being part of a real clan. I had just joined one when my sub ran out.
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All in all, still on the fence but reconsidering.
1. From what I see these people don't want the game to be easy, they want it to be justified.
2. To get anywhere at a decent pace people do those afk tasks, leaving my computer running the game all day and night is a little extreme just to skill gain. (which is bannable)
3. They don't expect to be a vet in a day, they expect there to be more to the game then there currently is
4. The game is fun IF you avoid grinding, but in doing so you instantly lose out on getting to most of the core content of the game which is competitive pvp.
You've only been in the game for 6 weeks, congrats. You right there prove to me you know nothing not only of the current state of the game but also what the game was MEANT to be before it became what it currently is.
Let me try and break this down.
Why do you go mobbing?
You'll answer will be loot and skill gains. Okay, so why do you want the loot and skill gains? Because the loot you get will either be put towards use in pvp or used to grind skills afk in whatever player-city you're in when you go to bed; skills you want so that you do more damage in pvp.
Why do you gather / craft?
Because it's nice to be able to make good stuff right? Okay... what's that stuff used for primarily? Yeah that's right, pvp.
Why do you explore?
If you haven't seen all of agon it can be interesting, otherwise players like myself are looking for pvp hot spots, ambush points and escape routes... all for pvp
Why do you join a clan and stay in a player-city?
So that you have people to do all the above with, all roads of course leading to pvp.
The problem is very clear, with a game so heavily focused on pvp you CANNOT have a system of skill gaining that caters to people who either play all day or cheat to get there (AFK anything is cheating). With the grind there currently is it's no wonder people so readily risk being banned from the game, they want to compete in pvp but know they'll be stomped if they don't take the risk of losing their account. Many people like the OP will start out strong and think it's not so bad... but it wears you down quickly. Yes in a few months you should be able to compete, but even then the vets will stomp people with their base stats... turns out their rather important considering last time I logged in the current trend was for everyone to make thousands of repair shards because it raised vitality the quickest. What you need to understand is that people purposely look for the quickest way to skill up instead of not worrying about it, clans look for exploits and once they find one it's all they do for a vast majority of the day.
WHEN YOU FORCE PLAYERS IN YOUR GAME TO FEEL THE NEED TO LOOK FOR EXPLOITS OR THE FASTEST POSSIBLE WAY TO GAIN SKILLS SOMETHING IS WRONG. The game instead of being a living world with many things to do is really not a world at all. The choices you have in the game are actually very limmited.. you have crafting, gathering, mobbing and pvp. two of those four choices are rather bland, and mobbing itself like the first three lead directly to pvp.
People are not asking for an easy game, they are asking for a justified game where what they do can make a noticable difference in a decent amount of time. In a game where pvp is so prevalent you can't have such a large gap in the abilities of players. Should there be a gap? Of course, but not as drastic as it is where even my character who isn't even vet can wipe the floor with 5+ new players without much effort. People want fair (to an extent) fights, fights that are determined by player skill, not stat level. Like someone said earlier the best times I had in DF wwas the first few weeks of EU launch, when everyone was on the same playing field a players skill really shined through. Once people started grinding up the game died in my eyes, magic also helped kill this game for me slowly. Magic is fine, but AOE spam that requires zero aim I have an issue with.
I hope I make sense to some of you.
Full Sail University - Game Design
Of course all roads lead to PvP right now. Its a FFA full loot game. They are however, adding PvE content in every major patch. A hardcore player can attain decent PvP status in 2 months if he grinds and afk swuns (by the way, running Darkfall is not a major drain on your pc and the game is Far from Graphically Intensive) A casual player that plays a couple hours a night before he goes to bet, can expect too reach that same level in 3 or 4 moonths, which is not unreasonable. You get out of Darkfall what you put into it, just like in any game. And once your character has achieved that PvP level, you never have to do any of that other stuff again if you don't want. Personally I enjpy getting a partner and going to kill IceJarls and things like that, its fun. Four months of casual gaming to reach a good PvP level in DF I would think is justifiable. I'm an old original EQ player though, maybe thats just my opinion that you shouldnt be able to cap a character in a month.
Also, AFk swimming in a circle is not bannable. I see plenty of people doing it every single night. Attended Macroing with a G15 or G19 keyboard is not bannable, lots of people do that.
Hacking ie: aimbot, radar, teleports, auto loot, ect are all things that will get your accoutn permanently banned with no warnings.
damn, my bad for all for spelling errors ^^
So, in a full-loot pvp game the gap between players ability to perform should be so big as to vets 3 hitting newer players and those newer players not being even remotely able to defend themselves? Doesn't sound like thrilling pvp to me... sounds like a slaughter. Why do you think vets argue so much agaisn't stat / skill gains happening faster? Because if they lose their edge they may actually lose to BETTER players.
Full Sail University - Game Design
I absolutely do believe just that yes. A vet has been in game a lot longer than a new player and has earned the skills and stats to three hit decapitate that newbie. I have been killed hundreds of times getting to the point that I am at right now, and sure its no fun getting ganked by a veteran powerhouse, but thats part of the game for a newbie. Now, its a lot more rewarding for me to be able to go out and hold my own against those guys who were previously kicking my ass, because i'v made my character strong enough to do that. The vets argue against it because they put in the work with the skill/stat gains set right where they are, so why should a new player get catered too? The vets made it in the world fine and reached the level they're at by playing the game, a new player that likes the game will to. Hell they already get newbie protection.
Also, your not taking into account the political system in DFO. If a new player could jump in and be competitve statwise in a week or two to a 6 month veteran, then what would stop certain Zerg Clans (won't mention any names BLOOD) from just ammassing a bunch of trial accounts under their banner, giving them some weapons and armor and taking major holdings all over the map?
The "grind" in darkfall is just where it needs to be. You earn your right to be able to kick somone elses ass, or you rage quit because you can't stand getting ganked by someone thats put their time in. Either put in the time and effort it takes to be on par with the big boys, or you can't hack it and you quit or decide its not for you ect.
You do to me, and I think you made my own point for me, better than I did.
@dcoleman07: All still forms of cheating. That you defend the use of a macro keyboard because they allow it, but disallow programs that accomplish the exact same thing is astonishing. That you differentiate (and imply that the GM's do) between swimming into a wall vs. swimming in circles (the difference of which is leaving an arrow key held down) is just as bad. That you defend the grind, while you yourself do the above things to avoid it directly shows that you certainly have no respect for the grind yourself, and therefore have no right whatsoever to critisize those who wish for the grind to be reduced. After all, you're already reducing your own grind, in ways that go against the very nature of the game itself, and its rules.
I'll add that a friend of mine, made while playing Darkfall, had no issue with the grind whatsoever. Why? He macro'd while he slept, and AFK swam as much as possible. He worked at home, at a computer, so while he did his job, DF was constantly running in the background while he mined or logged. His character was in motion doing something 24/7, and as a result, the things that a player like myself would value, had little to no value to him. "So what if you lose your gear" he'd say. Of course, the gear had little meaning to him as he could craft it himself with materials gained while he basically wasn't playing the game. "Your HP is fine!" he'd say, while he had scores more health than I had, due to his constant swimming, mining, and logging while not actually playing the game. The point is, that people like this do everything they can to avoid actually playing the game. They're not there watching their toons while they mine. They're not gaining every last point while at their PC. Hell, the guy I'm referring to played maybe 4-5 active hours a day doing PVE, or PVP. The rest was consumed by essentially AFK activities. It's part of why I eventually just said "No thanks" to Darkfall.
I'm not going to dedicate my time playing the game to that degree, nor am I going to participate in AFK activities all day long just to be compeitive. I want to play the damned game and become competitive, and Darkfall doesn't even reward you for doing so as well as it does the above example. The people who love the game so dearly are those who play like that, or dedicate astronomical amounts of time. It goes far and above "difficulty" and/or "earning your place".
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."
George Bernard Shaw
What is a cynic? A man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.
Oscar Wilde
LOL! Exaggerate much?
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."
George Bernard Shaw
What is a cynic? A man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.
Oscar Wilde
When you find a keyboard that can aim your swings for you, give you a radar, teleport you all over the map, and auto loot 100 things in a couple seconds then please let me know. There IS a difference in running unattended scripts and letting your keyboard press buttons mindlessly for you while your sitting at the computer.
AFK swimming is an accepted form of getting your stats and skills up and is part of the game. Iit has become a part of the grind in itself.
No that is not an exageration.
So you're saying that a simple macro program can aim for you, give you radar, and teleport you? Huge difference between a program like autoit, and a hack. Besides, we all know the people who are using G15's and the like aren't sitting at their damn keyboard letting it "press bottons mindlessly".
And yeah, I know that AFK swimming is an "accepted" part of the game. So was AFK macro'ing skills before they took a stance against it. Regardless, I'm positive it's exactly what the devs had in mind when they made the game, and I'm sure they're thrilled that people stay logged into their servers 24/7, using their bandwith, just so they can AFK swim. Clearly, this is brilliant game design at work - progress in the game without playing the game. They'd do better just to let a person automatically gain VIT while logged out and call it offline progression, ala EVE style. That said, it still doesn't explain why they kick players who AFK swim, and ban others who are caught repeatedly. You're still trying to defend the player's stance, which isn't shared by the GM's/devs, and you still tried to differentiate between AFK swimming into a wall, vs. swimming in a circle. Funny stuff.
If it's not an exaggeration, you mean to tell me that you meaningfully got "ganked" 5+ times per day, for the 42 days (6 weeks) you've played? As in, you ran 5-15 minutes to a nice camp, got there, made some progress, and then got smoked by a guy you had no chance against? This happened "hundreds of times"? I don't mean getting killed while you stand naked banking. I don't mean chasing after some guy with your starter staff while you wear a robe, then him turning on you and chopping your head off. I mean legitimate, you're out in the world having fun grinding doing your thing and making solid progress for a period of time when all the sudden you're dead before you barely realize it ganking. I have my doubts, sir.
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."
George Bernard Shaw
What is a cynic? A man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.
Oscar Wilde
I never said the game design was perfect, and as far as the difference in AFK swimming in a circle or into a wall, it was stated by the Devs/GM's that apparently there is a difference. I don't know what it is, and I don't really care. But it is What it is, and what i'm saying is that if you can't hang with the game and do what it takes to be on par with the more skilled up players then don't come on a Darkfall forum and piss and moan about it because you can't hack it.
The times that I have been PvP killed are spread out between me being ganked in the open world which is the majority of it, a few sieges i'v been in accounted for a whole of deaths, getting ganked while afk, and a few times dueling other clanmates for practice.
Anything else you want too pick apart, or do you just generally not like the game?
Can you prove it? If not, then its an exageration.
C:\Users\FF\Desktop\spin move.gif
I actually really loved the game, but hated the grind. Bainwalker's already explained my feelings on the subject to a T, and did a better job of it than even I could. Re-read for reference if need-be.
I know that there's a skill in the game named "gank", but that's not what I'm referring to when I say gank. I don't mean gettnig killed when you willingly go into an encounter with another player, such as you pointing out sieges. Getting killed while AFK doesn't fit the criterea either, and not just mine, but the widely accepted usage of the term. It certainly doesn't fit when you get ganked while fighting your buds, though if you're dumb enough to get ganked, while sparring, in your own town/hamlet, then that's kinda sad in its own way. No, I just mean when you're out in the world, doing your thing, playing the game, when some guy just comes along and wastes your ass. Simple as that.
I'm not trying to nitpick anything, by the by. I wouldn't even be involved in this discussion if it weren't for condescending pricks like yourself who think that just dealing with the grind is a badge of honor. I was hacking it just fine, and had some great times when I played. That said, the reward wasn't worth the effort in the long run, nor was the sacrifice of my time on a daily basis to take part in such a game, with the people who populated it, such as yourself. That's not so hard to understand, is it? Like I said - re-read Bainwalker's posts if you need further clarification.
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."
George Bernard Shaw
What is a cynic? A man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.
Oscar Wilde
there you go buddy ^^^ and my bad, it was 169 not 147 deaths, just to further prove my point
Cool, 169 deaths =/= "hundreds". Also, that's on average 4 deaths per day. That doesn't factor in how many times you died to players you willingly attacked, but lost to. It doesn't factor in deaths to clanmates/friends that you allowed to kill you for rep gains, or those "whoops" moments during spars with buds when you accidentally get decapped. It doesn't really even count for that much at all, at the end of the day. I'd bet most likely, you probably got good and ganked 1 to 2 times per day, and 3 times on a bad day and on some days, probably none at all. Not too bad imo. In fact, I'd say you were barely hassled at all. Thanks for proving that indeed, you've had a really, really hard time.
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."
George Bernard Shaw
What is a cynic? A man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.
Oscar Wilde
Thats assuming that I have played every single day for all 6 weeks, which I have not. 4 deaths a day can be a lot if you play a few hours when you can during the week days. 1 three or four hour game session, thats more than 1 death per hour. Thats darkfall.