I watched a clip from a documentary the other day.. It had a clip from SK, about an internet cafe ("PC Bang"), with the clerk being interviewed. He talked about how he saw people every day, coming in and not leaving (these places being open 24/7) before days had passed. They'd order takeout or eat noodles, sleep a few hours in the chair and wake up - straight back to gaming.
SK has a huge problem with online gaming and addiction, and I understand this ban. People go as far as beating up people (IRL) over virtual items and money - or asking them to pay "protection money" (RL or ingame money) to prevent being beaten up. It's retarded. It's also a multi-billion dollar business. SK comes in and restricts people because they want to help.
Some people talk about it being the parents responsibility, but hikikomori is not unheard of, probably a bit less in SK than in Japan, but it's still pretty much there.
You also need to remember, that SK (like many other countries) look up to their government for directions, and have done so always. They expect the government to do something about this problem, and that is what the government is trying to do.
My friend I have been all over this planet. I spent the better part of my 20's in the United States Navy sailing all over this globe. I was also a CTR in the Navy which afforded me the inside look of disgusting corruption that our goverment is capable of.
I could write a book on the ways this country has not only wronged it's own citizens but also the world. So please before you make outlandish claims of people not knowing what they have done or seen, when you do not even know the person you are referring to, or making some left field finger pointing to Palin or Socialism, really serves no purpose. At least I was trying to make a point in my post. The only thing you two accomplished was trying to disprove for some odd reason what I was saying with no proof of your own.
You know nothing about me, just as I know nothing about you. Which it is more than likely better than way. I still stand behind what I say. The US Government is one of the most politically corrupt goverment bodies on planet earth. I would even venture to say it is #1 from what I have witnessed in my lifetime. Take that for what you will.
Ah. So you *haven't* fallen subject to a foreign Nation's laws. You have only been a tourist. You speak as one who has carried baggage without closure... which undoubtedly comes from your time in service and a lingering distaint therein. You don't know jack about foreign politics and their interworkings. You've stated as much. You've *seen* but you haven't *experienced*. Therein is where your entire viewpoint falls apart.
You also failed to address where you have practiced what you've preached as being bogus access points for the common citizen being heard on the National political stage. Writing your Senator, with a *valid* concern and expressed professionally, yields results. (Hell, as a vet, your voice is heard well above the crowds- this much can be proven easily via empirical findings inside of the vet community.) Considering, of course, there are more immediate, city, county, state governments that can and should be given the opportunity to address whatever the concern may be. It's easy to lump things onto the National stage and cry heresy without going through the proper channels first. You, being a vet, should know all about proper channels.
Is our government the best that's out there? We're a far cry from what we should be- that much can be agreed on. A government is only as good as its people, and we, as a people, have been stricken far too long with a sense of entitlement and lack of personal accountability. But having grown up subject to foreign laws and taxes (hell, you think the US has a tax problem, live in the EU for a simple 6mo w/o recourse of getting on a plane and 'going home'), I'll be the first to claim that although the US has its fair share of problems, the laws that govern its being allow the most freedoms to the average citizen in the western world. Does Canada have it better? Perhaps, but there are, have been, continue to be struggles between the Quebecois and the English-speaking community there that are equally disturbing to situations on home ground.
There is a reason why the rest of the world looks to the US for protection when their denizens are threatened. While immigration trends have slowed in the past decade, the US still sees high rates of foreign nationals comparatively speaking with other countries of its 'stature'. There's a reason for all this. It doesn't happen 'just because'.
Perhaps one should study the legislation regarding financial matters in the countries of Spain, France, or Belgium (to name just a few) and how money is written away by the National political stage with zero accountability whatsoever- used to finance fascist parties, or monarch whims. Compared to the Treasury of the US annually publishing one of the thickest books I've ever seen- that accounts for every cent that exits the government's hands. Read into it- you might be surprised at just how accountable we hold ourselves compared to those around us. And while it might be a far cry from perfection, it's an even further cry from the states of many nations.
As a fellow vet, thank you for your service. But as a fellow vet, I can see straight into your point of view and disclaim it on the very grounds of assertion that you claim.
-----
Regarding SK and their governing of online gaming... it was going to happen sooner or later, and it's a shame that it took this long. To their benefit, gaming is a norm in the SK culture, their way of life. So these problems with real life abandonment for the gain of an electronic existence are in the forefront of their minds. Sadly, although the gaming industry is alive and well in the US and other parts of the western world, a gamer is still viewed as a 'geek' and the term carries no social status. Thus, the problems gamers experience risk being more harming before being noticed.
Everything will be governed eventually. It's good to see the gaming industry in SK coming into line. If the rest of the entertainment industry operating freely in the rest of the world were smart, they'd regulate themselves and the consumption of their entertainment before operation mandates befall them. It'd be the responsible thing to do, for one, and for two, a benefit long-term for profit as well.
That is exactly right, and we're not saying NO to save WoW, because it is already a lost cause. We are saying NO to dissuade the next group of greedy suits who decide to emulate Blizzard and Cryptic, etc. We can prevent some of the future games from spewing this crap, but the sooner we start saying no, the better the results will be. So - Stand up, pull up your pants, and walk away. - MMO_Doubter
I understand the desire to want to control the useless deaths of children and such that have been happening over there due to neglect, but really there have only been a few cases and it's absolutely absurd to limit an adults time on a computer.
If they're paying to play the game, they should be allowed to play however long they want. If they die doing it, thats their problem.
I find it ridiculous. If they try this in America, I'm gonna get really annoyed. I pay for my internet, I get to do what I want, when I want. *brandishes fists*
Unfortunately, your ISP disagrees with you and theyre trying to push towards being able to control what we access, how quickly we can access it, and perhaps making us (or sites/games/companies etc) pay extra to access things which use up more bandwith on their internet service. Read here: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/07/technology/07net.html
Basically our ISPs which we pay for service, think it's perfectly cool to be able to tell us what to do with our service that we pay for, rather than us being able to use our service to its full extent and access anything we like. Pretty screwed up i say. It's like me getting a magazine subscription, and then them turning around and saying "hey you read the entire magazine, we only wanted you to look at some of it, but since you did more than that we want you to pay more for your subscription"
Funny thing is, i thought we moved away from this stupid crap. Remember having to pay hourly for dial up? Now we have a flat monthly rate for unlimited access, but theyre trying to turn it into making us (or the providers of the services) pay for specific things like streaming video, p2p downloading, etc. or else not acess it at all (or at a drastically slower speed).
I understand the desire to want to control the useless deaths of children and such that have been happening over there due to neglect, but really there have only been a few cases and it's absolutely absurd to limit an adults time on a computer.
If they're paying to play the game, they should be allowed to play however long they want. If they die doing it, thats their problem.
I find it ridiculous. If they try this in America, I'm gonna get really annoyed. I pay for my internet, I get to do what I want, when I want. *brandishes fists*
Please understand that not everywhere is like in US. In many countries in the world, such as many european countries, the goverment takes a more active role in trying to preserve the health of their citizens, sometimes by "controlling" them like this.
But even in US you are not allowed to do "what you want, when I want" with the Internet. For example I would guess downloading child pornography is not legal in US? Not saying it is the same just making a point that the line needs to be drawn somewhere.
That is a terrible example since child porn is illegal any time of the day. Where as with what is happening, playing video games is perfectly legal one minute then illegal another minute. That is law vs control.
It sounds like a step in the right direction, but is it enough? much as i enjoy mmo's i wonder how many people spend far more time playing games, offline or online, than is really good for them, with the summer coming on quickly, and warmer weather - the incentive really should be for people to spend more time out of doors, not cooped up in a darkened room playing computer games, having said that, its really the parents job to ensure that their children are living a healthy lifestyle - presumably adults should know better about these things and not need to be reminded... though personally i would consider anyone who repeatedly spends 4 hours or more a day playing online games, is storing up trouble for themselves health wise. Have to wonder just how bad the situation is there though, if their worried that people arent getting enough sleep even because of online gaming!
I hope this is sarcasm?
There are some people in the world who may use a computer for gaming or other legitimate online activities (e-mails, forums, what have you) due to legitimate medical conditions that may prevent them from going outside to enjoy that warm spring and summer weather. Should they be limited in their seasonal internet usage just because it's nice outside or because someone somewhere believes they may be "storing up trouble for themselves healthwise?" Presumably, if they're in such a situation, they already have some health issues preventing them from enjoying that lovely weather anyway - is a few hours spent on the internet enjoying one of the things they can do if they are in this situation to begin with really going to make a difference - except maybe to worsen their already poor health by causing any number of conditions, including, but not limited to, depression?
It is my opinion that in a Western-style democracy (I'm not certain that South Korea necessarily qualifies), no government has the right to impinge upon the rights of its citizens in such a manner. If the citizens wish to spend countless hours indoors and online, so long as they are not committing a crime by doing so (i.e. child pornography, child abuse or neglect, internet stalking, internet fraud, illegal downloads or pirating, engaging in other activities which are illegal or which impinge upon the rights of others), the government cannot and should not interfere by limiting bandwidth or anything else. Online gaming certainly qualifies as a non-criminal activity in which the government should have no right to interfere. If a consumer pays for a service such as internet service and an online gaming subscription service, how they choose to utilize the services they pay for, so long as how they choose to use that service is not criminal, is none of the government's business.
Pretty much this. A plausible step for them would have been to either limit the hours that gaming cafes can be open, or to make the said cafes enforce a "no underage gamers after midnight policy". That way nobody's rights are interfered with at home, nor is any family/personal internet connection.
Dunno. Here in North America, we have gambling laws. It can be argued that the government has no business intruding on what we do with our money, even if we blow our rent money, our food money, the money that was going to pay for the baby's food and diapers, etc. BUT, the fact is, the government does intervene, and sets a variety of laws and restrictions on how gambling is carried out.
Now, given that F2P games are far more prevailant over in SK, and considering that many of their cash shops involve a huge degree of chance (i.e. gambling), AND that many of them are blatantly engineered to get people hooked on them (i.e. Skinner's Box syndrome), AND that there's no age limit on who can play them, is it really unreasonable to suggest that some form of regulation is required in this sector?
While this seems like a bit of a stupid way to go about it, I'm not sure I can immediately dismiss the reasoning behind the move. People are good at running themselves into the gutter, with no thought for their own welfare or future - at a certain point you need an intervention. And younger people especially, who this law is aimed at, generally lack the life experience and tempering that (might) prevent such a thing from happening.
A Modest Proposal for MMORPGs: That the means of progression would not be mutually exclusive from the means of enjoyment.
About time. Sick of all these goldsellers and hackers I mean please, these idiots who make money by hacking our accounts and selling gold afterwards are a shame for all the asian nations. Its gonna be soon like a stereotype that they won't be able to get rid of - "goldseller... ahh yeah asian". South Korea is the WORST...
I understand the desire to want to control the useless deaths of children and such that have been happening over there due to neglect, but really there have only been a few cases and it's absolutely absurd to limit an adults time on a computer.
If they're paying to play the game, they should be allowed to play however long they want. If they die doing it, thats their problem.
I find it ridiculous. If they try this in America, I'm gonna get really annoyed. I pay for my internet, I get to do what I want, when I want. *brandishes fists*
/signed
How can you pay for Bandwidth but then get told how to use it and how long u can use it? Wouldnt this cross over into other internet uses like Forum trolling and MMORPG.com reading?
If they did this in America I would probably move to canada or start anarchy.
They dont just 'do' stuff with out you letting it happen. We all have a voice. I for one wouldn't stand for it for one second.
I understand the desire to want to control the useless deaths of children and such that have been happening over there due to neglect, but really there have only been a few cases and it's absolutely absurd to limit an adults time on a computer.
If they're paying to play the game, they should be allowed to play however long they want. If they die doing it, thats their problem.
I find it ridiculous. If they try this in America, I'm gonna get really annoyed. I pay for my internet, I get to do what I want, when I want. *brandishes fists*
It says that there is a limit on under age children not adults.
Lets stay on the topic of the thread guys . Voice your opinions and comment on THIS topic. If you want to discuss political differences that you have with another user, the Politics and Religon section is the place to do it.
That is where this thread should be. This is all about politics.
If a mod can move it, it should be moved. It's impossible to discuss this topic without getting into political debate.
Somewhat true, though most people obviously didn't read the full post to begin with. It seems as though they've only read the title. This is no different than what we do in the states, aside from it being on the internet. Hell we won't even let our kids on the street after a certain time by law.
The government in our country is just as much into our daily lives, albeit in a different fashion. They're into our parenting lives even more.
There's really no need for a political debate considering this, we have no place as they say.
Is it really a big mystery why laws like this come about? It's all in the name of productivity, and nothing more. Why do you think late-night entertainment blows? Because if you stayed up all night watching TV you might miss work, that thing that keeps our economy and industry flowing.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Parents should be dictating play times, not Government.
If a child dies from playing a game too long, the PARENT should be held accountable for wrongful death, and neglect. If you don't pay enough attention to your child that he DIES from playing a game too long, you deserve jail time.
I understand the desire to want to control the useless deaths of children and such that have been happening over there due to neglect, but really there have only been a few cases and it's absolutely absurd to limit an adults time on a computer.
If they're paying to play the game, they should be allowed to play however long they want. If they die doing it, thats their problem.
I find it ridiculous. If they try this in America, I'm gonna get really annoyed. I pay for my internet, I get to do what I want, when I want. *brandishes fists*
I actually think this would be perfect in USA the knock on effects could be less fattys and maybe academic levels of education will increase if only to grade 1, to be fair isnt like bush left them with any rights anyway.
NO simply No.
If i spend All day working and can only game on weekend then i'll pay for 6 hours if I want. You don't get to dictact how I entertain myself.
Is it really a big mystery why laws like this come about? It's all in the name of productivity, and nothing more. Why do you think late-night entertainment blows? Because if you stayed up all night watching TV you might miss work, that thing that keeps our economy and industry flowing.
Late night TV blows - because most people are asleep. The market is much smaller. Just like most big budget shows are on during primetime (when most of the populace is home and awake), rather than 2:00 in the afternoon.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
I understand the desire to want to control the useless deaths of children and such that have been happening over there due to neglect, but really there have only been a few cases and it's absolutely absurd to limit an adults time on a computer.
If they're paying to play the game, they should be allowed to play however long they want. If they die doing it, thats their problem.
I find it ridiculous. If they try this in America, I'm gonna get really annoyed. I pay for my internet, I get to do what I want, when I want. *brandishes fists*
I actually think this would be perfect in USA the knock on effects could be less fattys and maybe academic levels of education will increase if only to grade 1, to be fair isnt like bush left them with any rights anyway.
NO simply No.
If i spend All day working and can only game on weekend then i'll pay for 6 hours if I want. You don't get to dictact how I entertain myself.
If the do gooders make sufficient noise about it, those who Rule can and will do just about anything. It can and has always been justified as being for the Chil-de-ren...Or the "Greater Good". or these days "national security". Then their corporate mass media(which creates, shapes and manipulates public "opinion") will fall in line and read government hand outs as "news", and the various think tanks and court intellectuals will gin up any number of "studies" and reports in support of it.
That IS how the system of government works. No matter what its external guise, they are all based on coercion, intimidation, and out right brutal violence(when the first two fail). But that is seldom necesaary, as most people have been conditioned to be Good Citizens, and have become ever more dependent on government in all too many aspects of their lives.
Comments
I watched a clip from a documentary the other day.. It had a clip from SK, about an internet cafe ("PC Bang"), with the clerk being interviewed. He talked about how he saw people every day, coming in and not leaving (these places being open 24/7) before days had passed. They'd order takeout or eat noodles, sleep a few hours in the chair and wake up - straight back to gaming.
SK has a huge problem with online gaming and addiction, and I understand this ban. People go as far as beating up people (IRL) over virtual items and money - or asking them to pay "protection money" (RL or ingame money) to prevent being beaten up. It's retarded. It's also a multi-billion dollar business. SK comes in and restricts people because they want to help.
Some people talk about it being the parents responsibility, but hikikomori is not unheard of, probably a bit less in SK than in Japan, but it's still pretty much there.
You also need to remember, that SK (like many other countries) look up to their government for directions, and have done so always. They expect the government to do something about this problem, and that is what the government is trying to do.
Other interesting links:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/18/technology/18rehab.html?_r=1 - about bootcamps to get rid of internet addiction (I also recall some news about a boy being beaten up at one of these)
http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/world-news/south-korea-s-two-million-internet-gaming-addicts-are-dicing-with-death-1.1014953 - Title pretty much explains it.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/12/18/GAMERS.TMP - about being famous for being a video gamer
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1620799,00.html - Title being "Where playing video games is a life" explains this article as well.
Follow my tweet (:
Ah. So you *haven't* fallen subject to a foreign Nation's laws. You have only been a tourist. You speak as one who has carried baggage without closure... which undoubtedly comes from your time in service and a lingering distaint therein. You don't know jack about foreign politics and their interworkings. You've stated as much. You've *seen* but you haven't *experienced*. Therein is where your entire viewpoint falls apart.
You also failed to address where you have practiced what you've preached as being bogus access points for the common citizen being heard on the National political stage. Writing your Senator, with a *valid* concern and expressed professionally, yields results. (Hell, as a vet, your voice is heard well above the crowds- this much can be proven easily via empirical findings inside of the vet community.) Considering, of course, there are more immediate, city, county, state governments that can and should be given the opportunity to address whatever the concern may be. It's easy to lump things onto the National stage and cry heresy without going through the proper channels first. You, being a vet, should know all about proper channels.
Is our government the best that's out there? We're a far cry from what we should be- that much can be agreed on. A government is only as good as its people, and we, as a people, have been stricken far too long with a sense of entitlement and lack of personal accountability. But having grown up subject to foreign laws and taxes (hell, you think the US has a tax problem, live in the EU for a simple 6mo w/o recourse of getting on a plane and 'going home'), I'll be the first to claim that although the US has its fair share of problems, the laws that govern its being allow the most freedoms to the average citizen in the western world. Does Canada have it better? Perhaps, but there are, have been, continue to be struggles between the Quebecois and the English-speaking community there that are equally disturbing to situations on home ground.
There is a reason why the rest of the world looks to the US for protection when their denizens are threatened. While immigration trends have slowed in the past decade, the US still sees high rates of foreign nationals comparatively speaking with other countries of its 'stature'. There's a reason for all this. It doesn't happen 'just because'.
Perhaps one should study the legislation regarding financial matters in the countries of Spain, France, or Belgium (to name just a few) and how money is written away by the National political stage with zero accountability whatsoever- used to finance fascist parties, or monarch whims. Compared to the Treasury of the US annually publishing one of the thickest books I've ever seen- that accounts for every cent that exits the government's hands. Read into it- you might be surprised at just how accountable we hold ourselves compared to those around us. And while it might be a far cry from perfection, it's an even further cry from the states of many nations.
As a fellow vet, thank you for your service. But as a fellow vet, I can see straight into your point of view and disclaim it on the very grounds of assertion that you claim.
-----
Regarding SK and their governing of online gaming... it was going to happen sooner or later, and it's a shame that it took this long. To their benefit, gaming is a norm in the SK culture, their way of life. So these problems with real life abandonment for the gain of an electronic existence are in the forefront of their minds. Sadly, although the gaming industry is alive and well in the US and other parts of the western world, a gamer is still viewed as a 'geek' and the term carries no social status. Thus, the problems gamers experience risk being more harming before being noticed.
Everything will be governed eventually. It's good to see the gaming industry in SK coming into line. If the rest of the entertainment industry operating freely in the rest of the world were smart, they'd regulate themselves and the consumption of their entertainment before operation mandates befall them. It'd be the responsible thing to do, for one, and for two, a benefit long-term for profit as well.
That is exactly right, and we're not saying NO to save WoW, because it is already a lost cause. We are saying NO to dissuade the next group of greedy suits who decide to emulate Blizzard and Cryptic, etc.
We can prevent some of the future games from spewing this crap, but the sooner we start saying no, the better the results will be.
So - Stand up, pull up your pants, and walk away.
- MMO_Doubter
That is a terrible example since child porn is illegal any time of the day. Where as with what is happening, playing video games is perfectly legal one minute then illegal another minute. That is law vs control.
Pretty much this. A plausible step for them would have been to either limit the hours that gaming cafes can be open, or to make the said cafes enforce a "no underage gamers after midnight policy". That way nobody's rights are interfered with at home, nor is any family/personal internet connection.
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
Dunno. Here in North America, we have gambling laws. It can be argued that the government has no business intruding on what we do with our money, even if we blow our rent money, our food money, the money that was going to pay for the baby's food and diapers, etc. BUT, the fact is, the government does intervene, and sets a variety of laws and restrictions on how gambling is carried out.
Now, given that F2P games are far more prevailant over in SK, and considering that many of their cash shops involve a huge degree of chance (i.e. gambling), AND that many of them are blatantly engineered to get people hooked on them (i.e. Skinner's Box syndrome), AND that there's no age limit on who can play them, is it really unreasonable to suggest that some form of regulation is required in this sector?
While this seems like a bit of a stupid way to go about it, I'm not sure I can immediately dismiss the reasoning behind the move. People are good at running themselves into the gutter, with no thought for their own welfare or future - at a certain point you need an intervention. And younger people especially, who this law is aimed at, generally lack the life experience and tempering that (might) prevent such a thing from happening.
A Modest Proposal for MMORPGs:
That the means of progression would not be mutually exclusive from the means of enjoyment.
About time. Sick of all these goldsellers and hackers I mean please, these idiots who make money by hacking our accounts and selling gold afterwards are a shame for all the asian nations. Its gonna be soon like a stereotype that they won't be able to get rid of - "goldseller... ahh yeah asian". South Korea is the WORST...
They dont just 'do' stuff with out you letting it happen. We all have a voice. I for one wouldn't stand for it for one second.
https://www.smashwords.com/profile/view/Bleakmage
Read the whole article. There's more.
https://www.smashwords.com/profile/view/Bleakmage
Somewhat true, though most people obviously didn't read the full post to begin with. It seems as though they've only read the title. This is no different than what we do in the states, aside from it being on the internet. Hell we won't even let our kids on the street after a certain time by law.
The government in our country is just as much into our daily lives, albeit in a different fashion. They're into our parenting lives even more.
There's really no need for a political debate considering this, we have no place as they say.
Is it really a big mystery why laws like this come about? It's all in the name of productivity, and nothing more. Why do you think late-night entertainment blows? Because if you stayed up all night watching TV you might miss work, that thing that keeps our economy and industry flowing.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Parents should be dictating play times, not Government.
If a child dies from playing a game too long, the PARENT should be held accountable for wrongful death, and neglect. If you don't pay enough attention to your child that he DIES from playing a game too long, you deserve jail time.
NO simply No.
If i spend All day working and can only game on weekend then i'll pay for 6 hours if I want. You don't get to dictact how I entertain myself.
No. I live there, and that is not the case. Our health care system isn't what the PR claims, either.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Late night TV blows - because most people are asleep. The market is much smaller. Just like most big budget shows are on during primetime (when most of the populace is home and awake), rather than 2:00 in the afternoon.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
If the do gooders make sufficient noise about it, those who Rule can and will do just about anything. It can and has always been justified as being for the Chil-de-ren...Or the "Greater Good". or these days "national security". Then their corporate mass media(which creates, shapes and manipulates public "opinion") will fall in line and read government hand outs as "news", and the various think tanks and court intellectuals will gin up any number of "studies" and reports in support of it.
That IS how the system of government works. No matter what its external guise, they are all based on coercion, intimidation, and out right brutal violence(when the first two fail). But that is seldom necesaary, as most people have been conditioned to be Good Citizens, and have become ever more dependent on government in all too many aspects of their lives.