The Philosophy of MxO Combat by Tahlec (something you all need to read)

sygmas · March 2005

The Philosophy of MxO Combat
By Tahlec, Contributing Writer
Coming out of the Stress Test and subsequent lifting of the NDA, The Matrix Online (MxO) has received a fair share of negative player reviews. I believe that many of these testers have written off MxO for the wrong reasons. The major problem is that people are expecting a Matrix version of WoW, EQ, or any other traditional MMORPG. But that's where the misconception lies. MxO has taken a departure from a number of the MMORPG norms. As a result, players are less able to jump right in and play the way they expect. This leads them to adopt an "MxO sucks" attitude and never look back. However, while I'm certain some testers really did give it a fair shake and honestly realize that MxO is not for them, many others would find a great game if they stuck with it and shed some of their preconceptions.
Certainly some of the negative opinions could have been avoided simply by Monolith focusing on additional technical/interface improvements and a more enhanced experience for new players. I believe these things will come (some probably not until after release), but most of the issues in these areas can be adapted to if the player is willing. Specifically, the movement and camera controls can be a bit cumbersome to new players. The upcoming patch will provide some improvements in this area (e.g., mouse sensitivity and other improvements). However, again, if a player is willing to adapt to these different controls (for example, learning that to jump over a fence, you must go up to it, stop, and then jump), they'll find a rich Matrix experience behind that interface.
The point of this article, however, is not to address the technical issues, but instead the philosophy behind the combat system. Unlike the interface which will receive enhancements, the combat system used in MxO is essentially working as intended, yet still draws quite a lot of criticism from new players. The reasons for the negative feelings are because it feels (to them) like a step back from the current state of MMORPGs. However, I (and many other MxO fans) feel it's just the opposite.
Before I expound further on the combat system, it's important to realize the "point" of MxO. It is not to be "WoW in the Matrix" or "EQ in the Matrix". It is not to be a traditional MMORPG. It's to provide an MMO that feels, and most importantly, looks like The Matrix. Another primary goal is to provide a vehicle to continue the story of The Matrix. Yes, these goals are wrapped into the model of an MMORPG, but that doesn't mean MxO must inherit all of the standard MMORPG gameplay. So what they've done is changed the gameplay to suit these goals.
One of the most popular visual products of The Matrix franchise is Bullet Time. Obviously this is something that the developers, from the beginning, wanted to get into MxO. How can you have The Matrix without Bullet Time? If you think of traditional MMORPG gameplay, you might start to appreciate the challenges they had to face to try and implement it. The biggest obstacle, however, is providing a means to have two character models engage in realistic combat animations to which they could actually apply Bullet Time. In other MMORPGs, the combat animations are strictly independent of each other. That is, your animations are essentially done without regard to the animations your opponent is displaying. That's why you might not visually make contact with your sword in EQ, but it still counts as a "hit."
In MxO, however, they've come up with a system that ensures full control of the animations of both combatants. It's called Interlock and provides the developers a way to provide amazing combat animations. Interlock essentially means that you and your opponent are locked in close-combat. This fact is one of the key aspects which turns new players off from the game. You literally cannot directly control the physical movement of your character during Interlock like you can in the combat of other MMORPGs. You can't backup, strafe, or jump. Your options are: fight, attempt to flee (via a discrete action request), or die.
So what is combat like with Interlock? Well, despite critical comments to the contrary, the actions involved aren't honestly that different than to which MMORPG players are accustomed. In WoW or EQ, melee combat involves hitting the attack button and activating special abilities when they're available provided you have enough Stamina/Power/Rage. In MxO, you hit the attack button and activate special abilities when they're available if you have enough Inner Strength. The differences are:
- In WoW/EQ, you get to control your character's placement (which can be a factor in PvP due to strafing, etc.).
- In WoW/EQ, your attacks have their own intervals; in MxO, your attack and your opponent's attack are determined at the same time and there is one "winner."
- In MxO, your regular attack is divided into four types which you can switch between Power, Speed, Grab, and Block.
- In MxO, the visual result of your attacks and special attacks are phenomenally more appealing.
Choosing between the four attack types (along with a fifth "Flee" option) is a tactical decision that, I believe, adds more to the tactical aspect of combat than would normally be provided in traditional MMORPGs. In other MMORPGs, you'd only be selecting amongst your special abilities. In MxO, you have these attack choices in addition to your special attacks. Now I'm not saying these are amazing, ground-breaking additions to melee combat, only that there are more choices to make in MxO close combat, not less as some short-term testers would lead you to believe.
For the sake of thoroughness, I should point out that Interlock can also involve gun play. That is, it works the same even if you're using guns. The four types of regular attacks are Aimed Shot, Burst, Retaliate, and Block. Again, all of the animations are computed for the various combinations of melee/gun play that you and your opponent could be exercising. For example, if you're using guns and are the "winner" of the round, then there will be an animation showing you pushing/kicking your opponent back so you can fire off a round or two. Again, this is all done to provide a unique visual style not previously seen in online games.
I've stated on the message boards that MxO is a game you play because you want to "jack into the Matrix," not because you want to play a sci-fi toon in an MMO. There are certainly reasons not to like MxO such as not being a fan of The Matrix franchise or because you want a more traditional MMORPG combat system. To their credit, some posters have acknowledged such feelings constructively and were able to see MxO for what it is even if it's not something they prefer to play. However, the reports that "MxO sucks" or is a "bad game" are just plain incorrect and made by immature players who can't see past their own needs for immediate thoughtless gratification and can't fathom understanding a different type of playstyle.
There's a lot to like in MxO. There are areas needing improvement, but it already is one of the most fun and exciting games I've played. Perusing the Beta Boards shows a lot of other dedicated fans who will be there (like me) for years to come. Hopefully new players will take the time to understand and appreciate MxO's differences and find something they like without passing hasty judgment due to being stuck in the current MMORPG mindset.
- Tahlec

http://mxovault.ign.com/View.php?view=Editorials.Detail&id=25

VicodinTaco · March 2005

Well, I'm deffinatly intrigued about this game. I wouldn't even have considered it if I didn't read your post. If a lot of people are saying "this/that sucks" then chances are I might like it . I would deffinalty like to see the Matrix story line expanded upon. I made fun of the first movie relentlessly. I thought it was for kids or what not. The second one changed my mind for some reason. Realized there was a lot to be said for the story line and such. I might not be there on day one (I've givin up on this idea), but consider me "in".

ianubisi · March 2005

Originally posted by sygmas

Certainly some of the negative opinions could have been avoided simply by Monolith focusing on additional technical/interface improvements and a more enhanced experience for new players. I believe these things will come (some probably not until after release), but most of the issues in these areas can be adapted to if the player is willing. Specifically, the movement and camera controls can be a bit cumbersome to new players. The upcoming patch will provide some improvements in this area (e.g., mouse sensitivity and other improvements). However, again, if a player is willing to adapt to these different controls (for example, learning that to jump over a fence, you must go up to it, stop, and then jump), they'll find a rich Matrix experience behind that interface.

They are making a huge, huge mistake to adopt this attitude. Overcoming a negative first impression is nearly impossible, and when UI behavior is the contributor to player negativity then you have a recipe for disaster.

Will some players be willing? Yes. But from the sounds of it, many many more are not.

sygmas · March 2005

His opinions are not cold hard facts nor are they representative of Monoliths stance on anything, so please don't take them as such. I simply found the article insightful and way better than I could articulate. So I decided to share it here.

ianubisi · March 2005

Originally posted by sygmas
His opinions are not cold hard facts nor are they representative of Monoliths stance on anything, so please don't take them as such. I simply found the article insightful and way better than I could articulate. So I decided to share it here.

They are not insightful if they are not truthful.

j-monster · March 2005

Originally posted by sygmas

The Philosophy of MxO Combat
By Tahlec, Contributing Writer

Coming out of the Stress Test and subsequent lifting of the NDA, The Matrix Online (MxO) has received a fair share of negative player reviews. I believe that many of these testers have written off MxO for the wrong reasons. The major problem is that people are expecting a Matrix version of WoW, EQ, or any other traditional MMORPG. But that's where the misconception lies. MxO has taken a departure from a number of the MMORPG norms. As a result, players are less able to jump right in and play the way they expect. This leads them to adopt an "MxO sucks" attitude and never look back. However, while I'm certain some testers really did give it a fair shake and honestly realize that MxO is not for them, many others would find a great game if they stuck with it and shed some of their preconceptions.
Certainly some of the negative opinions could have been avoided simply by Monolith focusing on additional technical/interface improvements and a more enhanced experience for new players. I believe these things will come (some probably not until after release), but most of the issues in these areas can be adapted to if the player is willing. Specifically, the movement and camera controls can be a bit cumbersome to new players. The upcoming patch will provide some improvements in this area (e.g., mouse sensitivity and other improvements). However, again, if a player is willing to adapt to these different controls (for example, learning that to jump over a fence, you must go up to it, stop, and then jump), they'll find a rich Matrix experience behind that interface.
The point of this article, however, is not to address the technical issues, but instead the philosophy behind the combat system. Unlike the interface which will receive enhancements, the combat system used in MxO is essentially working as intended, yet still draws quite a lot of criticism from new players. The reasons for the negative feelings are because it feels (to them) like a step back from the current state of MMORPGs. However, I (and many other MxO fans) feel it's just the opposite.
Before I expound further on the combat system, it's important to realize the "point" of MxO. It is not to be "WoW in the Matrix" or "EQ in the Matrix". It is not to be a traditional MMORPG. It's to provide an MMO that feels, and most importantly, looks like The Matrix. Another primary goal is to provide a vehicle to continue the story of The Matrix. Yes, these goals are wrapped into the model of an MMORPG, but that doesn't mean MxO must inherit all of the standard MMORPG gameplay. So what they've done is changed the gameplay to suit these goals.
One of the most popular visual products of The Matrix franchise is Bullet Time. Obviously this is something that the developers, from the beginning, wanted to get into MxO. How can you have The Matrix without Bullet Time? If you think of traditional MMORPG gameplay, you might start to appreciate the challenges they had to face to try and implement it. The biggest obstacle, however, is providing a means to have two character models engage in realistic combat animations to which they could actually apply Bullet Time. In other MMORPGs, the combat animations are strictly independent of each other. That is, your animations are essentially done without regard to the animations your opponent is displaying. That's why you might not visually make contact with your sword in EQ, but it still counts as a "hit."
In MxO, however, they've come up with a system that ensures full control of the animations of both combatants. It's called Interlock and provides the developers a way to provide amazing combat animations. Interlock essentially means that you and your opponent are locked in close-combat. This fact is one of the key aspects which turns new players off from the game. You literally cannot directly control the physical movement of your character during Interlock like you can in the combat of other MMORPGs. You can't backup, strafe, or jump. Your options are: fight, attempt to flee (via a discrete action request), or die.
So what is combat like with Interlock? Well, despite critical comments to the contrary, the actions involved aren't honestly that different than to which MMORPG players are accustomed. In WoW or EQ, melee combat involves hitting the attack button and activating special abilities when they're available provided you have enough Stamina/Power/Rage. In MxO, you hit the attack button and activate special abilities when they're available if you have enough Inner Strength. The differences are:
- In WoW/EQ, you get to control your character's placement (which can be a factor in PvP due to strafing, etc.).
- In WoW/EQ, your attacks have their own intervals; in MxO, your attack and your opponent's attack are determined at the same time and there is one "winner."
- In MxO, your regular attack is divided into four types which you can switch between Power, Speed, Grab, and Block.
- In MxO, the visual result of your attacks and special attacks are phenomenally more appealing.
Choosing between the four attack types (along with a fifth "Flee" option) is a tactical decision that, I believe, adds more to the tactical aspect of combat than would normally be provided in traditional MMORPGs. In other MMORPGs, you'd only be selecting amongst your special abilities. In MxO, you have these attack choices in addition to your special attacks. Now I'm not saying these are amazing, ground-breaking additions to melee combat, only that there are more choices to make in MxO close combat, not less as some short-term testers would lead you to believe.
For the sake of thoroughness, I should point out that Interlock can also involve gun play. That is, it works the same even if you're using guns. The four types of regular attacks are Aimed Shot, Burst, Retaliate, and Block. Again, all of the animations are computed for the various combinations of melee/gun play that you and your opponent could be exercising. For example, if you're using guns and are the "winner" of the round, then there will be an animation showing you pushing/kicking your opponent back so you can fire off a round or two. Again, this is all done to provide a unique visual style not previously seen in online games.
I've stated on the message boards that MxO is a game you play because you want to "jack into the Matrix," not because you want to play a sci-fi toon in an MMO. There are certainly reasons not to like MxO such as not being a fan of The Matrix franchise or because you want a more traditional MMORPG combat system. To their credit, some posters have acknowledged such feelings constructively and were able to see MxO for what it is even if it's not something they prefer to play. However, the reports that "MxO sucks" or is a "bad game" are just plain incorrect and made by immature players who can't see past their own needs for immediate thoughtless gratification and can't fathom understanding a different type of playstyle.
There's a lot to like in MxO. There are areas needing improvement, but it already is one of the most fun and exciting games I've played. Perusing the Beta Boards shows a lot of other dedicated fans who will be there (like me) for years to come. Hopefully new players will take the time to understand and appreciate MxO's differences and find something they like without passing hasty judgment due to being stuck in the current MMORPG mindset.
- Tahlec

http://mxovault.ign.com/View.php?view=Editorials.Detail&id=25

Do you get payed for all the soliciting you do?

sygmas · March 2005

I wish j monster lol

sygmas · March 2005

Originally posted by ianubisi
Originally posted by sygmas
His opinions are not cold hard facts nor are they representative of Monoliths stance on anything, so please don't take them as such. I simply found the article insightful and way better than I could articulate. So I decided to share it here.

They are not insightful if they are not truthful.

Oye. Okay whatever you say, you people are impossible.

admriker444 · March 2005

So what the poster is saying basically is its my fault if I dont like the game ???

Fact is combat is the least of the problems this so-called mmorpg has. And yes I dont consider it a mmorpg. Heck the poster even admits that (although he says non-traditional mmorpg), but its not a mmorpg at all.

Its like CoH in that there's not really much to do except run mission aftter mission after mission. And the point of those missions is so you can do more missions. And sorry for the comparison to CoH cause thats an insult to CoH which is better

The original poster wants to look at the game differently from traditional mmorpgs. Sorry, but I like mmorpgs. I want crafting, I want player housing. I want social interaction. I want that kind of stuff and matrix doesnt have it. This is just another example of their elitist attitude telling me I should just like the game and oh the story is gonna be great.

sygmas · March 2005

EDIT: I removed my response to Riker as I dont want to ruin this thread in a flamewar or something. Riker I've privately PMed you my response.

Hope for some civil discussion from the rest of ya, later.

Connoisseur · March 2005

Originally posted by admriker444

So what the poster is saying basically is its my fault if I dont like the game ???
Fact is combat is the least of the problems this so-called mmorpg has. And yes I dont consider it a mmorpg. Heck the poster even admits that (although he says non-traditional mmorpg), but its not a mmorpg at all.
Its like CoH in that there's not really much to do except run mission aftter mission after mission. And the point of those missions is so you can do more missions. And sorry for the comparison to CoH cause thats an insult to CoH which is better
The original poster wants to look at the game differently from traditional mmorpgs. Sorry, but I like mmorpgs. I want crafting, I want player housing. I want social interaction. I want that kind of stuff and matrix doesnt have it. This is just another example of their elitist attitude telling me I should just like the game and oh the story is gonna be great.

That's basically how WoW is too, yet everyone loves it.

Wagnard · March 2005

I still wonder how the mentioned above system works with more than 2 combatants.

But I guess Interlock was apparently the only way since some sacrifice is required in order to synchronize animations successfully.

Even in single player games like Neverwinter Nights (I mean playing it in Single Player mode) synchronization was often out of order.

And I believe sacrifice's worth it. Incredible combat and Bullet Time, violating laws of physics and common sense - that IS the trademark of Matrix Universe. Atmosphere and gameplay - that's what developers are supposedly relying on.

I suppose SEGA Ent. woudn't get involved with some failure project... you have to take into account that Matrix Online will sell anyway cause of such a popular brand.

sygmas · March 2005

Originally posted by Wagnard
I still wonder how the mentioned above system works with more than 2 combatants.
But I guess Interlock was apparently the only way since some sacrifice is required in order to synchronize animations successfully.
Even in single player games like Neverwinter Nights (I mean playing it in Single Player mode) synchronization was often out of order.
And I believe sacrifice's worth it. Incredible combat and Bullet Time, violating laws of physics and common sense - that IS the trademark of Matrix Universe. Atmosphere and gameplay - that's what developers are supposedly relying on.
I suppose SEGA Ent. woudn't get involved with some failure project... you have to take into account that Matrix Online will sell anyway cause of such a popular brand.

It actually did not work too well with more than two combatants previously, but in the latest patch its as simple as click the other target while theyre in interlock in order to switch. So if its two guys vs you in interlock, and you hit one and want to switch to the other, just left click once on the other one to switch targets.

Wagnard · March 2005

You misunderstood me a bit. I meant synchronizing animations.

So it's like characters A and B engage character C. Character A attacks with a punch and character B attacks with a kick. Character C attempts blocking and succeeds but obviously there will be only one blocking animation displayed (of character C blocking either A's punch or B's kick). Still both hits won't count... and that's quite far from being realistic, unfortunately.

sygmas · March 2005

Thats not how it works on QA right now. It works out appropriately. They've been patching QA every day now, hell today we got a 600meg patch alone.

Razorback · March 2005

Well I know Sygmas wont believe me but I already understood and kind of knew all of that.

If you read some of my previous posts I actually praise the attempts that have been made in MxO regarding the combat and other systems. The simple point I have made a few times is that : Its great to be smart and technically brilliant and have people stare in wonder at your genius. But at the end of the day these are GAMES and they have to be FUN.

My personal opinion is that I did not find any of the MxO combat to be "FUN".

Thats just my opinion. Not a "Slander" on the game or the devs or anything so serious. Just my opinion that no matter how wonderous this creation is, it does not personally excite me. You can tell from the intro of this peice that I was not the only one who felt this way. In fact if it was not for the common knowledge that the majority of gamers who tested MxO felt EXACTLY this way then, press releases like this would not have been written.

I also freely admit that I have not logged in since Stress Test 1 and I understand some changes have been made since then including the completion "multi interlock" that I have not played with at all.

metalfoxus · March 2005

Well the Devs at MxO are doing one hell of a job patching what needs to be fixed. It does seem that everyday something is getting sorted out. Oh, and to the people who complain about player housing in the Matrix, come on, going by the storyline, why would any redpill (someone freed from the Matrix) have an apartment in the matrix?!

I find this to be an amazing game, and I cant wait till it is released. The people incharge are staying so true to the source material that it is incredible.

Roin · March 2005

Originally posted by Razorback
Well I know Sygmas wont believe me but I already understood and kind of knew all of that.
If you read some of my previous posts I actually praise the attempts that have been made in MxO regarding the combat and other systems. The simple point I have made a few times is that : Its great to be smart and technically brilliant and have people stare in wonder at your genius. But at the end of the day these are GAMES and they have to be FUN.
My personal opinion is that I did not find any of the MxO combat to be "FUN".
Thats just my opinion. Not a "Slander" on the game or the devs or anything so serious. Just my opinion that no matter how wonderous this creation is, it does not personally excite me. You can tell from the intro of this peice that I was not the only one who felt this way. In fact if it was not for the common knowledge that the majority of gamers who tested MxO felt EXACTLY this way then, press releases like this would not have been written.
I also freely admit that I have not logged in since Stress Test 1 and I understand some changes have been made since then including the completion "multi interlock" that I have not played with at all.

Razor you sum'd up how I feel about MXO perfectly. While I do have other gripes about the game. They weren't as big as the combat one. I also stopped playing the MXO beta just before the first stress test. I won't dispute that they were making great improvements to the game. In the end though my time in MXO beta felt like EQ2 to me. In that it just seemed to be lacking a soul. The soul of any game is the 'fun'.

sygmas · March 2005

It's not a press release -- its an article written by a tester.

sygmas · March 2005

Originally posted by Roin
Originally posted by Razorback
Well I know Sygmas wont believe me but I already understood and kind of knew all of that.
If you read some of my previous posts I actually praise the attempts that have been made in MxO regarding the combat and other systems. The simple point I have made a few times is that : Its great to be smart and technically brilliant and have people stare in wonder at your genius. But at the end of the day these are GAMES and they have to be FUN.
My personal opinion is that I did not find any of the MxO combat to be "FUN".
Thats just my opinion. Not a "Slander" on the game or the devs or anything so serious. Just my opinion that no matter how wonderous this creation is, it does not personally excite me. You can tell from the intro of this peice that I was not the only one who felt this way. In fact if it was not for the common knowledge that the majority of gamers who tested MxO felt EXACTLY this way then, press releases like this would not have been written.
I also freely admit that I have not logged in since Stress Test 1 and I understand some changes have been made since then including the completion "multi interlock" that I have not played with at all.

Razor you sum'd up how I feel about MXO perfectly. While I do have other gripes about the game. They weren't as big as the combat one. I also stopped playing the MXO beta just before the first stress test. I won't dispute that they were making great improvements to the game. In the end though my time in MXO beta felt like EQ2 to me. In that it just seemed to be lacking a soul. The soul of any game is the 'fun'.

They hadnt put the soul in yet -- so your feelings are quite astute :P We've got all the mechanics, soul's on the way.

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The Philosophy of MxO Combat by Tahlec (something you all need to read)

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The Philosophy of MxO Combat by Tahlec (something you all need to read)

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