One does not have to read very far, even if one has little personal knowledge of ship to ship pvp (like myself) to know that "weaker" ships competently flown and fit can overcome "stronger" ships, and that smaller fleets can overpower larger fleets.
Of course, it would likely take a fair bit of practice and getting blown to bits in the process to reach that level of accomplishment. Patience is more than just a virtue, its a prerequisite.
I played about 6 trials of this over the past 5 years and finally subbed about 6 months ago.
I've tried everything. Mining - 'cringe', Mission running - 'yawn', industry/building and selling shit, and now PVP.
Considering this game is so praised on its PVP ... I just dont get it!! Solo PVP takes EXTREME patience. probing and waiting mostly, for the opportunity to kill a ship that sucks worse than your's, because if it's slightly better, you will lose.
Then theres fleet PVP It's basically just a gank fest. Whoever is in the biggest fleet with the best ships wins. Explain how this is fun. how can EVE PVP appeal to anyone with 1/2 a brain?
I just dont get it. Can someone let me in on the joke plz?
Sometimes good fights in Eve are hard to come by. But when you get into a good fight, its really fun and exciting, and it will make you want more fights like that one.
Everything is best in moderation, because you get sick of it when you do it too much.
For example, when I bought battlefield Bad Company 2, I played it for like 7 hours a day. The action was great, and you can jump into the action right away (as with all shooting games). But I am bored of it, and I don't even touch it anymore.
Eve is not an instant gratification game. I would say the combat in Eve is more like the combat in real life. There is more strategy, and waiting involved.
For example, if you look at soldiers fighting in Iraq or wherever - they spend most of their time waiting in cover, holding their gun, looking for targets.
It's like Eve, you spend most of your time looking for targets.
1) Fleet battles are just fun for the FC and the guys planning where the fleet moves to etc, think RTS. The person playing the "RTS" is enjoying it, ie the guy moving the fleet(s) about. The individual pilots all target one ship and kill. As pointed out they are not fun for the individual and are more or less wars of attrition.
2) Small scale gang combat is all about engaging when the situation suits you best and hence there is a lot of to-ing and fro-ing before anything actually happens, Either one side doesnt care and engages when ever not caring about loss or one side gets caught out.
I would go for small gang battles every time, as pointed out by the post above me, when it does kick off it can be really good.
This is Eve and the way it plays out. There are variations to the above two points but you find that the majority of the battles play out according to the above 2 points. It is what it is not more or less :-P
.... this made me facepalm..... what ships are good for soloing then? in your opinion. And why does soloing suck until you get decent skills? Ugh people like you make my head hurt, you can go out soloing in frigs and finding frigs to fight, you learn when you lose a ship. I know i did, i lost 40+ thrashers before i got a good grasp of pvp and moved into hurricanes. And why are BCs bad for soloing? That is what i'd really like to know.
EDIT: looking over this thread, i noticed that i have never seen so much terrible advice given for eve on this forum... its almost embaressing.
Playing: EVE Online Favorite MMOs: WoW, SWG Pre-cu, Lineage 2, UO, EQ, EVE online Looking forward to: Archeage, Kingdom Under Fire 2 KUF2's Official Website - http://www.kufii.com/ENG/ -
This is Eve and the way it plays out. There are variations to the above two points but you find that the majority of the battles play out according to the above 2 points. It is what it is not more or less :-P
This is such a hideous over generalisation. If you see things this way then I really do feel sorry for you because your missing out on so much.
I dont really think your telling us the whole story. It seems to me like you've deliberatly set out dis-like it, I'd even go so far as to question the truth behind what you say you've done in Eve.
Some of what you say just doesnt make sense, at all! Lets take one sentence.
"Solo PVP takes EXTREME patience. probing and waiting mostly, for the opportunity to kill a ship that sucks worse than your's, because if it's slightly better, you will lose."
HUH? what the hell are you talking about? Seriously? do you even know how to pvp, do you really understand?.. I think not. I'm deliberatly not going to go into details here, any Eve player can see from this that what your saying is wrong. In my 5 years of Eve I've never used a probe and my wins and losses have never had anything to do with my ship.
Lets take another quote..
"Then theres fleet PVP It's basically just a gank fest. Whoever is in the biggest fleet with the best ships wins"
I really do pity you! I cant imagine what kind of corp you joined, I cant imagine who taught you to pvp, did you make ANY friends AT ALL ?. Either your only going by what what people have told you and what you've read or your just simply making it all up.
"I just dont get it. Can someone let me in on the joke plz?"
I dont think you will ever get it until somehow you can change your attitude, and the joke, as you say, is most definatly on you!
Either someone or some group of people are having a huge laugh at your expense, you've not really taken the time to understand, or everything you say is pure fiction.
He probably is. I've had the exact same experience, as have many others. With it being one of the few half decent Sci-fi MMOs I've tried several time to enjoy EVE, and as the OP even subscribed for a time. Its just way to slow paced and has a removed scence about it. That's for me though. People have different tastes.
Most activities in Eve are decidedly unfun, but they have results on the game world and other players and that's why it's fans like it.
Personally I think many Eve players see it a little too much as a job ( aka doing boring stuff to achieve a purpose, usually paying your bills ) than a game, but to each his own.
He probably is. I've had the exact same experience, as have many others. With it being one of the few half decent Sci-fi MMOs I've tried several time to enjoy EVE, and as the OP even subscribed for a time. Its just way to slow paced and has a removed scence about it. That's for me though. People have different tastes.
Er yes, but look, he's been playing for 6 months! and has, acording to him "done everything". anyone who has played for 6 months just wouldnt talk the way he talks. They would have at least met someone by now that has explained to him that its nothing about "having a better ship" - Thats like saying, "I win rock, paper scissors all the time because im stronger!" lol
Again, its a sandbox, you can play Eve as fast paced or as slow paced as you want. The "slow paced" experience you have is simply because thats the pace at which your learning, and probably listened to some bad advice. I have two accounts, one that I play just for a quick blast, and one that I grind ISK to pay for BOTH my accounts.
I know that people have different tastes, but when they come on here spouting nonsense its really irritating!
Its almost like someone going on holiday to somewhere and coming back saying that the experience was really dull!! making a big fuss about how crap the holiday was and then later revealing that all they did was stay in the hotel!
These people played the game but they havnt really left the hotel yet and are only judging things based on their immediate surroundings.
Most activities in Eve are decidedly unfun, but they have results on the game world and other players and that's why it's fans like it.
Yep. The OP seems like they think films like Saving Private Ryan are a waste of time, boring, un-fun, they're only "to achieve a purpose", and wants every game experience to be like the gasoline fight in Zoolander. WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!
EVE has it's appeal because it's a "big boys" game. There are plenty of pewpew-I-run-and-jump-and-die-for-15-seconds games out there. EVE demands more of its players...or at least it offers them the freedom to ask more of themselves.
You feel like you don't "get" EVE, which is fair, because honestly there are plenty parts that I don't even "get," it's just a massive game and I haven't begun to experience or understand most of it. That aspect of EVE's nature excites and energizes me in my gaming experience.
However, if that feeling makes you frustrated, then I'd say your best bet is to find something else to play. No reason to play a game that you don't enjoy in some way, and EVE is admittedly a game with likely the narrowest range of appeal across the gamer demographic.
Currently playing: LOTRO, Guild Wars 2. Have played: EVE Online; Champions Online; Age of Conan; City of Heroes/Villains; Star Wars Galaxies (pre-CU, pre-NGE); World of Warcraft (Vanilla to Cataclysm); Hellgate: London; Warhammer Online; Lord of the Rings Online; Vanguard: Saga of Heroes; Star Wars: The Old Republic Wishlist: Mass Effect Online
EVE has it's appeal because it's a "big boys" game.
No, it isn't. That attitude of "We are better than you, because we play this game" ( of all things ) by a substantial part of the community is actually one of the worst things about Eve and sandbox games in general.
There are perfectly sane and in fact pretty intelligent grown ups enjoying theme park games over sandbox ones and they have every right to do so. No need to belittle them.
Originally posted by Zeletor EVE has it's appeal because it's a "big boys" game.
No, it isn't. That attitude of "We are better than you, because we play this game" ( of all things ) by a substantial part of the community is actually one of the worst things about Eve and sandbox games in general.
There are perfectly sane and in fact pretty intelligent grown ups enjoying theme park games over sandbox ones and they have every right to do so. No need to belittle them.
I don't think that's what he meant or else he would come off as more condescending. It's the freedom provided and the fact that you have to set your own goals rather than have the game limit your paths and layout your goals for you.
Take WoW, if you like PvP, in its current state, you HAVE to earn your welfare PvP items in BG's and THEN you have to do your Arenas to move up to the higher tiers to be more competitive. In PvE, you have to run heroics to get a good set of starter PvE gear then move on to raids if you desire more. This is perfectly fine, but the thinking is done for you.
It doesn't make this game worse, its just that EVE allows you the freedom and forces you to think and make your own decisions and make your own plans. Some people might prefer goals to be laid out for them instead and not like this form of gameplay. That's acceptable as well, he was just pointing out these two differences.
EVE has it's appeal because it's a "big boys" game.
No, it isn't. That attitude of "We are better than you, because we play this game" ( of all things ) by a substantial part of the community is actually one of the worst things about Eve and sandbox games in general.
There are perfectly sane and in fact pretty intelligent grown ups enjoying theme park games over sandbox ones and they have every right to do so. No need to belittle them.
I don't think that's what he meant or else he would come off as more condescending. It's the freedom provided and the fact that you have to set your own goals rather than have the game limit your paths and layout your goals for you.
Take WoW, if you like PvP, in its current state, you HAVE to earn your welfare PvP items in BG's and THEN you have to do your Arenas to move up to the higher tiers to be more competitive. In PvE, you have to run heroics to get a good set of starter PvE gear then move on to raids if you desire more. This is perfectly fine, but the thinking is done for you.
It doesn't make this game worse, its just that EVE allows you the freedom and forces you to think and make your own decisions and make your own plans. Some people might prefer goals to be laid out for them instead and not like this form of gameplay. That's acceptable as well, he was just pointing out these two differences.
Thanks for helping me to clarify, Jairoe03.
@Amegashie, I do apologize for being unclear. I didn't intend to evoke an elitist attitude or imply any condescension toward those who play other games (except perhaps for the gasoline fight joke, but that wasn't directed at everyone who doesn't like EVE). Jairoe did a good job of clarifying what I intended to say. Many games appeal to a broad-range of gamers, allowing both the casual weekend warrior and the hardcore number-crunching min-maxer to have an enjoyable and rewarding game experience. EVE is simply different in that the casual experience is much less rewarding (potentially) than the hardcore number-crunching min-maxing experience, because your capabilities to do all that are broadened in a sandbox game.
(Poor) Example of this: My wife (a non-gamer until I converted her ) and I have played LotRO and WoW together with a lot of enjoyment. I paid attention to min-maxing stats and chaining abilities, building gear sets, etc., she essentially just liked the experience, item acquisition, and group play of it. We both enjoyed the games though, because they were accessible to our different play styles.
EVE is a game I haven't even bothered suggesting we play together, because it appeals more to my playstyle and hardly at all to hers. You almost spend too much time of EVE *thinking* and not *playing*. One quote from a friend of mine: "EVE is the funnest spreadsheet I know of."
So in that light I can say (and did in my previous post) that I can completely understand that someone--even a long-time gamer--would not "get" EVE. It simply isn't for everyone.
Currently playing: LOTRO, Guild Wars 2. Have played: EVE Online; Champions Online; Age of Conan; City of Heroes/Villains; Star Wars Galaxies (pre-CU, pre-NGE); World of Warcraft (Vanilla to Cataclysm); Hellgate: London; Warhammer Online; Lord of the Rings Online; Vanguard: Saga of Heroes; Star Wars: The Old Republic Wishlist: Mass Effect Online
Well by 'gank fest' I'm referring to the fact that whoever has the biggest fleet wins. Wheres the fun in this?
The bigger fleet does not always win. The ship types on both sides, the strategies being used and the experience of the pilots and FC have just as big an impact on who's going to win as sheer numbers. You should see what an organized small group of sniper HAC's and recons can do to a large fleet of cruisers and frigs.
Secondly, if you're fighting fair in Eve, you doing it wrong. For null sec corps and some territorial low sec corps if you're in their system then you're invading their home. They will use all means at their disposal to kick you out. You may not find that fun but a lot us do.
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own. -- Herman Melville
You either like it or you don't ..... in this case you either 'get it' or you don't .....
PvP is usually blobwars .. or 5v1 ganking because thats human nature
people don't like losing, people do like winning
Wow is no different on the PvP servers ... hit the contested zones like Stranglethorn, and you'll find a lot of high-levels there looking for thier easy kills and they WILL run & hide from equal level players (just like happens in eve at gatecamps)
However the difference between Wow/Eve here is vast ...
5-10 L30's stand no chance against 1 L80 player in wow
5-10 lowSP players can easily beat 1 highSP player in Eve
EVE has it's appeal because it's a "big boys" game.
No, it isn't. That attitude of "We are better than you, because we play this game" ( of all things ) by a substantial part of the community is actually one of the worst things about Eve and sandbox games in general.
There are perfectly sane and in fact pretty intelligent grown ups enjoying theme park games over sandbox ones and they have every right to do so. No need to belittle them.
I've met my share of idiots in Eve but it's still way better than any other game I've played. After fights in Eve most people will give you a "gf" (good fight) in local and even discuss what you did right / wrong. Every other PvP game I've played the only thing people ever said after a fight was "/teabag" or some lame mother joke.
The corps (guilds for everyone else) I've been in Eve have been the most helpful compared to other games bar none. Around my second week playing, I got attacked outside a station (at that time I didn't understand the agression timer mechanic) and mentioned in corp chat that I was in a fight and losing. I only mentioned it to make conservation instead a bunch of my corp members came to help, I was shocked. What do you think the typical response from a WoW guild would be if you said you being attacked in EPL? My guess is something along the lines of "So?".
Then again, that's just my experience.
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own. -- Herman Melville
EvE Is like dating. It's expensive. It's time consuming. You get shot down a lot. After you spend all that money and time and get shot down 15 times you hopefully get to have 15 mins of fun. I and the others that play eve enjoy this kind of non instant gratifaction gaming however MANY people do not. I enjoy it because the more time I put into something it makes the sucess all the more sweet.
See eve has its fun moments for me. But I am more of an explorer so my main focus is somewhat unimportant in this game. Though the main reason I don't play is that I have a job already, I don't need a second one. If it was fantasy-based, I might give it a try, but as it stands I like to be able to take an hour to look through spreadsheets, figure what I need to do then do it for 2-3 hours when I play mmos.
It sucks being a hardcore player at heart but a casual player in availability. ~NightCloak
After reading all of your posts and playing EVE some more I've realized this - EVE is boring as hell, period.
PVP in EVE is more about reading, discussing and planning than it is about actual combat.
I understand that war irl is similar (I'm a NAV Comm in the Canadian Navy, yes we have a navy) but I play games to escape real life, EVE literally feels like a voluntary second job.
I am an adult and yes I play games to have fun. I dont enjoy spending copious amounts of time waiting for the promise that one day I may experience a few minutes of excitement in this 'game'.
By the way - @Zeletor Saving Private Ryan is my 3rd favorite movie right after Shawshank and Fight Club.
"We have barred the gates, but can not hold them for long... They have taken the Bridge and the Second Hall... We can not get out. The end comes. Drums, drums in the deep. They are coming..."
After reading all of your posts and playing EVE some more I've realized this - EVE is boring as hell, period.
Eve is boring as hell to YOU, period.
PVP in EVE is more about reading, discussing and planning than it is about actual combat.
If you don't actually go out and seek PvP then yeah you just sit around discussing and planning, that's not the game, that is YOU.
I understand that war irl is similar (I'm a NAV Comm in the Canadian Navy, yes we have a navy) but I play games to escape real life, EVE literally feels like a voluntary second job.
I am an adult and yes I play games to have fun. I dont enjoy spending copious amounts of time waiting for the promise that one day I may experience a few minutes of excitement in this 'game'.
Most Eve players are adults and we all play games to have fun. I don't enjoy midlessly running around killing and being killed with no in game consequence or rewards other than being at the top of a scoreboard. Fun is subjective, I find enjoyment in the living world that Eve is rather than a lobbied deathmatch like other MMOs out there.
By the way - @Zeletor Saving Private Ryan is my 3rd favorite movie right after Shawshank and Fight Club.
Meh, if it's boring to you then oh well, atleast you tried it out and decided that it's boring to you. I do believe however you making that judgement based on your very limited knowledge of the game.
You clearly want jump in a go have lots of instant action, well fortunately for you there are tons and tons of games out that offer that and there are very few that offer what Eve offers in terms of gameplay. To me no other game offers the longevity that Eve offers, no other games offer the living breathing world feel of Eve which is the reason I play it. Quick jump in and non stop action gets old fast to me now after 30+ years of gaming because mindless follow the zerg pvp has no meaning in the game other than a scoreboard.
You say Eve feels like a voluntary second job, I say Eve is the one game where if I do not feel like logging that day I don't feel left behind or missing out on something. As an example in WoW I started to feel like I HAD to log in and do my daily random to get my 2 frost badges, this to me was more like a 2nd job than anything in Eve ever has. If I wanted to raid I HAD to commit to a set time to be on or I got removed from the raid roster, tell me how that is not like a 2nd job.
Did you try joining a PvP corp ? Did you try Red vs Blue ? They offer quick pvp action on a very regular basis. Sounds to me like you just limited yourself to high sec isk grinding which just like in any other game out there gets boring.
See eve has its fun moments for me. But I am more of an explorer so my main focus is somewhat unimportant in this game. Though the main reason I don't play is that I have a job already, I don't need a second one. If it was fantasy-based, I might give it a try, but as it stands I like to be able to take an hour to look through spreadsheets, figure what I need to do then do it for 2-3 hours when I play mmos.
This post is kind of confusing to me so please excuse me if I misread what you are trying to say.
Are you saying that exploration is unimportant in Eve ? If so then you clearly havent tried exploration in Eve, in fact Eve is the only game I have played where actual player exploration was needed and was more than simply going to a guide and finding the co ordinates of something and going there and that is it. Eve exploration actually has value and rewards other than a 2 second tourist attraction site.
As far as the job comments goes I will just copy and paste my response from above
"You say Eve feels like a voluntary second job, I say Eve is the one game where if I do not feel like logging that day I don't feel left behind or missing out on something. As an example in WoW I started to feel like I HAD to log in and do my daily random to get my 2 frost badges, this to me was more like a 2nd job than anything in Eve ever has. If I wanted to raid I HAD to commit to a set time to be on or I got removed from the raid roster, tell me how that is not like a 2nd job."
I find it funny you mention that if Eve were fantasy based you might give it a try, what does the genre setting have to do with game deisgn ? Replace all the ships with elves and orcs, replace the npc spaceships with dragons but leave all the same game design elements in tact you are still left with the same game just different graphics.
OP- I think what you need is a good mentor to the game. I know I needed one. It truly is the closest you will come to a virtual life in space that is dependent on money and time. It is a brutal galaxy. You need DSI over at SGHQ.com or join Eve University. Once you learn the game which is not easy, you will find that you can make your own way in New Eden. After 90 days you also become quite comfortable with the your ship as the main focus of gameplay without a walking avatar. Combat is a good route to take. Missions will start you in the right direction. But forget the PvE aspect when you reach a certain point because you will need to group up. And a corporation is the key factor in this game. The lore of Eve makes it this way. In Eve bigger is not always better. Believe me it is a lot to take in but you need a mentor. Eve University is a good place to start. I am on a break from Eve for now but if you want send me a PM and I can suggest my old corp. They are mostly all ex military people.
After reading all of your posts and playing EVE some more I've realized this - EVE is boring as hell, period.
PVP in EVE is more about reading, discussing and planning than it is about actual combat.
I understand that war irl is similar (I'm a NAV Comm in the Canadian Navy, yes we have a navy) but I play games to escape real life, EVE literally feels like a voluntary second job.
I am an adult and yes I play games to have fun. I dont enjoy spending copious amounts of time waiting for the promise that one day I may experience a few minutes of excitement in this 'game'.
By the way - @Zeletor Saving Private Ryan is my 3rd favorite movie right after Shawshank and Fight Club.
Check back when Dust-514 launches tbh. It is designed exactly for people like yourself, who want immediate, high-intensity action, but who still like the idea of participating in a persistent, player-driven universe. No skill tree. No grinding.
Comments
One does not have to read very far, even if one has little personal knowledge of ship to ship pvp (like myself) to know that "weaker" ships competently flown and fit can overcome "stronger" ships, and that smaller fleets can overpower larger fleets.
Of course, it would likely take a fair bit of practice and getting blown to bits in the process to reach that level of accomplishment. Patience is more than just a virtue, its a prerequisite.
Sometimes good fights in Eve are hard to come by. But when you get into a good fight, its really fun and exciting, and it will make you want more fights like that one.
Everything is best in moderation, because you get sick of it when you do it too much.
For example, when I bought battlefield Bad Company 2, I played it for like 7 hours a day. The action was great, and you can jump into the action right away (as with all shooting games). But I am bored of it, and I don't even touch it anymore.
Eve is not an instant gratification game. I would say the combat in Eve is more like the combat in real life. There is more strategy, and waiting involved.
For example, if you look at soldiers fighting in Iraq or wherever - they spend most of their time waiting in cover, holding their gun, looking for targets.
It's like Eve, you spend most of your time looking for targets.
I fully understand what the OP is talking about.
1) Fleet battles are just fun for the FC and the guys planning where the fleet moves to etc, think RTS. The person playing the "RTS" is enjoying it, ie the guy moving the fleet(s) about. The individual pilots all target one ship and kill. As pointed out they are not fun for the individual and are more or less wars of attrition.
2) Small scale gang combat is all about engaging when the situation suits you best and hence there is a lot of to-ing and fro-ing before anything actually happens, Either one side doesnt care and engages when ever not caring about loss or one side gets caught out.
I would go for small gang battles every time, as pointed out by the post above me, when it does kick off it can be really good.
This is Eve and the way it plays out. There are variations to the above two points but you find that the majority of the battles play out according to the above 2 points. It is what it is not more or less :-P
.... this made me facepalm..... what ships are good for soloing then? in your opinion. And why does soloing suck until you get decent skills? Ugh people like you make my head hurt, you can go out soloing in frigs and finding frigs to fight, you learn when you lose a ship. I know i did, i lost 40+ thrashers before i got a good grasp of pvp and moved into hurricanes. And why are BCs bad for soloing? That is what i'd really like to know.
EDIT: looking over this thread, i noticed that i have never seen so much terrible advice given for eve on this forum... its almost embaressing.
Playing: EVE Online
Favorite MMOs: WoW, SWG Pre-cu, Lineage 2, UO, EQ, EVE online
Looking forward to: Archeage, Kingdom Under Fire 2
KUF2's Official Website - http://www.kufii.com/ENG/ -
This is such a hideous over generalisation. If you see things this way then I really do feel sorry for you because your missing out on so much.
He probably is. I've had the exact same experience, as have many others. With it being one of the few half decent Sci-fi MMOs I've tried several time to enjoy EVE, and as the OP even subscribed for a time. Its just way to slow paced and has a removed scence about it. That's for me though. People have different tastes.
Come on guys!!! Any combat ship can be used for solo pvp if you do a little homework and learn what ships to target.
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
If you stand VERY still, and close your eyes, after a minute you can actually FEEL the universe revolving around PvP.
Most activities in Eve are decidedly unfun, but they have results on the game world and other players and that's why it's fans like it.
Personally I think many Eve players see it a little too much as a job ( aka doing boring stuff to achieve a purpose, usually paying your bills ) than a game, but to each his own.
Er yes, but look, he's been playing for 6 months! and has, acording to him "done everything". anyone who has played for 6 months just wouldnt talk the way he talks. They would have at least met someone by now that has explained to him that its nothing about "having a better ship" - Thats like saying, "I win rock, paper scissors all the time because im stronger!" lol
Again, its a sandbox, you can play Eve as fast paced or as slow paced as you want. The "slow paced" experience you have is simply because thats the pace at which your learning, and probably listened to some bad advice. I have two accounts, one that I play just for a quick blast, and one that I grind ISK to pay for BOTH my accounts.
I know that people have different tastes, but when they come on here spouting nonsense its really irritating!
Its almost like someone going on holiday to somewhere and coming back saying that the experience was really dull!! making a big fuss about how crap the holiday was and then later revealing that all they did was stay in the hotel!
These people played the game but they havnt really left the hotel yet and are only judging things based on their immediate surroundings.
Yep. The OP seems like they think films like Saving Private Ryan are a waste of time, boring, un-fun, they're only "to achieve a purpose", and wants every game experience to be like the gasoline fight in Zoolander. WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!
EVE has it's appeal because it's a "big boys" game. There are plenty of pewpew-I-run-and-jump-and-die-for-15-seconds games out there. EVE demands more of its players...or at least it offers them the freedom to ask more of themselves.
You feel like you don't "get" EVE, which is fair, because honestly there are plenty parts that I don't even "get," it's just a massive game and I haven't begun to experience or understand most of it. That aspect of EVE's nature excites and energizes me in my gaming experience.
However, if that feeling makes you frustrated, then I'd say your best bet is to find something else to play. No reason to play a game that you don't enjoy in some way, and EVE is admittedly a game with likely the narrowest range of appeal across the gamer demographic.
Currently playing: LOTRO, Guild Wars 2.
Have played: EVE Online; Champions Online; Age of Conan; City of Heroes/Villains; Star Wars Galaxies (pre-CU, pre-NGE); World of Warcraft (Vanilla to Cataclysm); Hellgate: London; Warhammer Online; Lord of the Rings Online; Vanguard: Saga of Heroes; Star Wars: The Old Republic
Wishlist: Mass Effect Online
No, it isn't. That attitude of "We are better than you, because we play this game" ( of all things ) by a substantial part of the community is actually one of the worst things about Eve and sandbox games in general.
There are perfectly sane and in fact pretty intelligent grown ups enjoying theme park games over sandbox ones and they have every right to do so. No need to belittle them.
I don't think that's what he meant or else he would come off as more condescending. It's the freedom provided and the fact that you have to set your own goals rather than have the game limit your paths and layout your goals for you.
Take WoW, if you like PvP, in its current state, you HAVE to earn your welfare PvP items in BG's and THEN you have to do your Arenas to move up to the higher tiers to be more competitive. In PvE, you have to run heroics to get a good set of starter PvE gear then move on to raids if you desire more. This is perfectly fine, but the thinking is done for you.
It doesn't make this game worse, its just that EVE allows you the freedom and forces you to think and make your own decisions and make your own plans. Some people might prefer goals to be laid out for them instead and not like this form of gameplay. That's acceptable as well, he was just pointing out these two differences.
Thanks for helping me to clarify, Jairoe03.
@Amegashie, I do apologize for being unclear. I didn't intend to evoke an elitist attitude or imply any condescension toward those who play other games (except perhaps for the gasoline fight joke, but that wasn't directed at everyone who doesn't like EVE). Jairoe did a good job of clarifying what I intended to say. Many games appeal to a broad-range of gamers, allowing both the casual weekend warrior and the hardcore number-crunching min-maxer to have an enjoyable and rewarding game experience. EVE is simply different in that the casual experience is much less rewarding (potentially) than the hardcore number-crunching min-maxing experience, because your capabilities to do all that are broadened in a sandbox game.
(Poor) Example of this: My wife (a non-gamer until I converted her
) and I have played LotRO and WoW together with a lot of enjoyment. I paid attention to min-maxing stats and chaining abilities, building gear sets, etc., she essentially just liked the experience, item acquisition, and group play of it. We both enjoyed the games though, because they were accessible to our different play styles.
EVE is a game I haven't even bothered suggesting we play together, because it appeals more to my playstyle and hardly at all to hers. You almost spend too much time of EVE *thinking* and not *playing*. One quote from a friend of mine: "EVE is the funnest spreadsheet I know of."
So in that light I can say (and did in my previous post) that I can completely understand that someone--even a long-time gamer--would not "get" EVE. It simply isn't for everyone.
Currently playing: LOTRO, Guild Wars 2.
Have played: EVE Online; Champions Online; Age of Conan; City of Heroes/Villains; Star Wars Galaxies (pre-CU, pre-NGE); World of Warcraft (Vanilla to Cataclysm); Hellgate: London; Warhammer Online; Lord of the Rings Online; Vanguard: Saga of Heroes; Star Wars: The Old Republic
Wishlist: Mass Effect Online
The bigger fleet does not always win. The ship types on both sides, the strategies being used and the experience of the pilots and FC have just as big an impact on who's going to win as sheer numbers. You should see what an organized small group of sniper HAC's and recons can do to a large fleet of cruisers and frigs.
Secondly, if you're fighting fair in Eve, you doing it wrong. For null sec corps and some territorial low sec corps if you're in their system then you're invading their home. They will use all means at their disposal to kick you out. You may not find that fun but a lot us do.
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.
-- Herman Melville
Eve is the Marmite of the gaming world
You either like it or you don't ..... in this case you either 'get it' or you don't .....
PvP is usually blobwars .. or 5v1 ganking because thats human nature
people don't like losing, people do like winning
Wow is no different on the PvP servers ... hit the contested zones like Stranglethorn, and you'll find a lot of high-levels there looking for thier easy kills and they WILL run & hide from equal level players (just like happens in eve at gatecamps)
However the difference between Wow/Eve here is vast ...
5-10 L30's stand no chance against 1 L80 player in wow
5-10 lowSP players can easily beat 1 highSP player in Eve
I've met my share of idiots in Eve but it's still way better than any other game I've played. After fights in Eve most people will give you a "gf" (good fight) in local and even discuss what you did right / wrong. Every other PvP game I've played the only thing people ever said after a fight was "/teabag" or some lame mother joke.
The corps (guilds for everyone else) I've been in Eve have been the most helpful compared to other games bar none. Around my second week playing, I got attacked outside a station (at that time I didn't understand the agression timer mechanic) and mentioned in corp chat that I was in a fight and losing. I only mentioned it to make conservation instead a bunch of my corp members came to help, I was shocked. What do you think the typical response from a WoW guild would be if you said you being attacked in EPL? My guess is something along the lines of "So?".
Then again, that's just my experience.
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.
-- Herman Melville
EvE Is like dating. It's expensive. It's time consuming. You get shot down a lot. After you spend all that money and time and get shot down 15 times you hopefully get to have 15 mins of fun. I and the others that play eve enjoy this kind of non instant gratifaction gaming however MANY people do not. I enjoy it because the more time I put into something it makes the sucess all the more sweet.
-Currently looking forward to FFXIV
-Currently playing EvE and Global Agenda
See eve has its fun moments for me. But I am more of an explorer so my main focus is somewhat unimportant in this game. Though the main reason I don't play is that I have a job already, I don't need a second one. If it was fantasy-based, I might give it a try, but as it stands I like to be able to take an hour to look through spreadsheets, figure what I need to do then do it for 2-3 hours when I play mmos.
It sucks being a hardcore player at heart but a casual player in availability. ~NightCloak
After reading all of your posts and playing EVE some more I've realized this - EVE is boring as hell, period.
PVP in EVE is more about reading, discussing and planning than it is about actual combat.
I understand that war irl is similar (I'm a NAV Comm in the Canadian Navy, yes we have a navy) but I play games to escape real life, EVE literally feels like a voluntary second job.
I am an adult and yes I play games to have fun. I dont enjoy spending copious amounts of time waiting for the promise that one day I may experience a few minutes of excitement in this 'game'.
By the way - @Zeletor Saving Private Ryan is my 3rd favorite movie right after Shawshank and Fight Club.
"We have barred the gates, but can not hold them for long...
They have taken the Bridge and the Second Hall...
We can not get out. The end comes.
Drums, drums in the deep. They are coming..."
Meh, if it's boring to you then oh well, atleast you tried it out and decided that it's boring to you. I do believe however you making that judgement based on your very limited knowledge of the game.
You clearly want jump in a go have lots of instant action, well fortunately for you there are tons and tons of games out that offer that and there are very few that offer what Eve offers in terms of gameplay. To me no other game offers the longevity that Eve offers, no other games offer the living breathing world feel of Eve which is the reason I play it. Quick jump in and non stop action gets old fast to me now after 30+ years of gaming because mindless follow the zerg pvp has no meaning in the game other than a scoreboard.
You say Eve feels like a voluntary second job, I say Eve is the one game where if I do not feel like logging that day I don't feel left behind or missing out on something. As an example in WoW I started to feel like I HAD to log in and do my daily random to get my 2 frost badges, this to me was more like a 2nd job than anything in Eve ever has. If I wanted to raid I HAD to commit to a set time to be on or I got removed from the raid roster, tell me how that is not like a 2nd job.
Did you try joining a PvP corp ? Did you try Red vs Blue ? They offer quick pvp action on a very regular basis. Sounds to me like you just limited yourself to high sec isk grinding which just like in any other game out there gets boring.
This post is kind of confusing to me so please excuse me if I misread what you are trying to say.
Are you saying that exploration is unimportant in Eve ? If so then you clearly havent tried exploration in Eve, in fact Eve is the only game I have played where actual player exploration was needed and was more than simply going to a guide and finding the co ordinates of something and going there and that is it. Eve exploration actually has value and rewards other than a 2 second tourist attraction site.
As far as the job comments goes I will just copy and paste my response from above
"You say Eve feels like a voluntary second job, I say Eve is the one game where if I do not feel like logging that day I don't feel left behind or missing out on something. As an example in WoW I started to feel like I HAD to log in and do my daily random to get my 2 frost badges, this to me was more like a 2nd job than anything in Eve ever has. If I wanted to raid I HAD to commit to a set time to be on or I got removed from the raid roster, tell me how that is not like a 2nd job."
I find it funny you mention that if Eve were fantasy based you might give it a try, what does the genre setting have to do with game deisgn ? Replace all the ships with elves and orcs, replace the npc spaceships with dragons but leave all the same game design elements in tact you are still left with the same game just different graphics.
OP- I think what you need is a good mentor to the game. I know I needed one. It truly is the closest you will come to a virtual life in space that is dependent on money and time. It is a brutal galaxy. You need DSI over at SGHQ.com or join Eve University. Once you learn the game which is not easy, you will find that you can make your own way in New Eden. After 90 days you also become quite comfortable with the your ship as the main focus of gameplay without a walking avatar. Combat is a good route to take. Missions will start you in the right direction. But forget the PvE aspect when you reach a certain point because you will need to group up. And a corporation is the key factor in this game. The lore of Eve makes it this way. In Eve bigger is not always better. Believe me it is a lot to take in but you need a mentor. Eve University is a good place to start. I am on a break from Eve for now but if you want send me a PM and I can suggest my old corp. They are mostly all ex military people.
Check back when Dust-514 launches tbh. It is designed exactly for people like yourself, who want immediate, high-intensity action, but who still like the idea of participating in a persistent, player-driven universe. No skill tree. No grinding.
Give me liberty or give me lasers