If you have info on the strategy this game might offer please say it.
If your idea of strategy though is , well dps wil have to be behind the mob to do more damage and mages will have to debuff him to weaken his armor, thats not strategy, thats being a competant gamer.
Will i be able to lure the adds to fear certain players in combat, will i need to jump a buff to a mob that has real AI to keep us from wiping. Will this only happen on boss fights like in WoW or will i need to think on every fight?
While I was at first planning to not derail the thread any further, since the OP himself started talking about the strategy, I think I'm allowed to do so as well.
First of all, the skills and abilities are not as black and white as in XI where you had one or two ws to spam and abilities to use as soon as they were up (most of the time).
Many more abilities require you to position yourself correctly, and I'm not simply talking about SATA here. Situations where there is clear choice to be made like hitting one mob from behind for added damage or from the front when the skill would hit three monsters instead of one. However, one of the monsters is asleep and if I hit it it'll wake up.. but on the other hand, I might be able to tank it myself for a while, and there's only 4 monsters left anyway. Although... the mages MP is already below 50% and there's no aetheryte's to be seen anywhere close. I may not have enough TP to heal myself so the conjurer may have to toss me a cure in the worst case. That said, my Shadowbind's recast is up... so maybe I could hit with my skill fast and then immediately change targets and bind the mob, giving me some time to use Multishot and store arrows for one single strong strike.
Another example: Now, we're fighting 6 enemies. If I use this skill now, other mobs will get defense down effect but the one I am fighting will get more defense.. Considering this mob is the hardest of the bunch, it might be bad to delay it's death further, but on the other hand, if we kill the 5 other mobs faster we may be able to finish the fight faster. Hm, the skill costs all my available TP though... If I use it now, I may not have enough time to generate enough hate or increase my defense in case the mob decides to do it's most devastating attack... which if it hits others would most likely kill them.
One more: I'm on my offensive stance right now, but the group is getting low on hp... if I go and pick one mob to tank now, I'll have to change to defensive stance, but it'll be weak compared to the offense I have now... so it might prolong the battle too much instead. Should I try to finish this mob fast instead and hope that the group will hold it for a little more time?
The roles aren't so clear either. DD's can crowd control and tank, tanks can DD, healers can nuke, so if you do damage you can't do as much crowd controlling or tanking, and if you nuke you can't heal if a need arises.
Since you can't just rest MP deciding how to use it effectively becomes a much bigger question too. It has to last 'till the next aetheryte, or the end of the leve.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
Why would a company who in reality wants your capital, be interested in annoying customers?
Only ones being annoyed are those that won't be your customers in the first place.
If RTS players are annoyed that RPG X doesn't have RTS features, who cares?
If WRPG players are annoyed that JRPG X doesn't have WRPG features, who cares?
I dont know, maybe the players that would not have quit if they would not have been almost forced to buy from gil sellers. Prior to the cleanup they did, a lot of people left to that. All they wanted was a feature to report them and have them stop ruining the economy. I bet 80% if not more of those players would have kept on with FFXI had they had seen such action taken when they demanded it. Back then, no one cared the game was "hard", they just didnt want to put up with inaction. Eventually SE realised that if they ban gil sellers, they just come back and try again, but they retain many more customers.
The trick is, not to annoy your customers. WoW succeeded in that, now most gold farmers have to hack accounts as they cannot do their business otherwise. This way, only idiots get hacked, either they buy PL, either they have a password like 123456.
The same exists with jumping, botting, even casting magic for some people. Seeing a different animation for every spell is very important to some. If all mages cast the same, they wont like the game. With the revenu an MMO generates, why not make these customers happy, less annoyed, by having someone make animations. Perhaps for the time you develop this for those players, you will make 0 profit. But if they all stay more than 3 months because they like the animations and the way things flow, the company wins. I have seen a lot quit WoW because animations were too static.
So to your "who cares?" The players. And Who else should care? Those who make the game.
So to your "who cares?" The players. And Who else should care? Those who make the game.
The players don't care. They wouldn't play otherwise.
The point of playing any game is to look past what it doesn't have and appreciate what it has. If there are less animations, at least the animations are much more polished and detailed. Even if there are less monster types, at least all of them are well done from textures to death animation. If there is no X, Y is better. If there is everything, nothing is good. Everyone loses.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
hmm skills that debuff, but at the same time buff other mobs, interesting dynamic here. Supposing AI that makes those mobs not so easy to separate some fights could be fun. Once we have a tactic that works for this group of mobs, will they adapt to it? Or once we "learn" the fight, does it only become a minor bump in the road?
WoW = learning fights. Though your strats look good, it still seems like fight learning.
If the mobs adapt or use 1 of 4 different strategies each fight, then you also need to learn to adapt to the fight. That could require thinking. Especially if they change tactics in the middle of the fight.
Although fun for a player like me, such fight will pose a real problem for 90% of gamers who wont be able to adapt. So will we be able to have a "built in" difficulty level to which the game automatically adapts to the average of the players in your group, dropping loot to a % depending on the difficulty level? To have a dynamic system, with players playing the game, some sort of rating will be mandatory.
hmm skills that debuff, but at the same time buff other mobs, interesting dynamic here. Supposing AI that makes those mobs not so easy to separate some fights could be fun. Once we have a tactic that works for this group of mobs, will they adapt to it? Or once we "learn" the fight, does it only become a minor bump in the road?
WoW = learning fights. Though your strats look good, it still seems like fight learning.
If the mobs adapt or use 1 of 4 different strategies each fight, then you also need to learn to adapt to the fight. That could require thinking. Especially if they change tactics in the middle of the fight.
Although fun for a player like me, such fight will pose a real problem for 90% of gamers who wont be able to adapt. So will we be able to have a "built in" difficulty level to which the game automatically adapts to the average of the players in your group, dropping loot to a % depending on the difficulty level? To have a dynamic system, with players playing the game, some sort of rating will be mandatory.
Indeed, I forgot to mention that the AI is unlike anything I've seen before. It might be just buggy, but most of the time it acts in smart ways and makes you employ different strategies, and adapts if you do the same things over and over again.
One thing I know for sure though, monsters act differently even when we're talking about same type of monster. Some mobs try to finish you off if you're low on hp no matter what, some run off to look for backup, some try to zerg one player by all attacking him. Some get more annoyed by ranged characters attacking from distance.
There's a reason why the game starts in a way that combat seems slow though. For the precise reason that players need to learn to play before throwing them something like this. It inevitably might feel slow at first, but there's a good reason for that. You need to get familiar with it, which isn't a problem with ex-XI players considering the control scheme isn't much different from the predecessor but for any new players it's good to have some "grace" period just to get familiar with things.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
So will we be able to have a "built in" difficulty level to which the game automatically adapts to the average of the players in your group, dropping loot to a % depending on the difficulty level? To have a dynamic system, with players playing the game, some sort of rating will be mandatory.
Do you really care? The game is not going to have jumping and so you already said you won't be playing it...
OP: If what you say is true, you officially tipped my interest in this game from "Meh" to "Huh!?"
DDO was a great example of resource management in an MMO. Even HP does not regen unless you can find a rest shrine, and if you don't have someone to resurrect you, you can only respawn so many times as well. I actually kind of liked it.
If this is true, I may just keep my finger on this game's pulse a bit more diligently.
The way I look at it is this, it's SE's game they're going to make it the way they want. You don't have to like it, and can vote with your wallet.
So for me, the more I hear, the more my wallet whispers to me subscribe to one of the OTHER MMO's coming out next year, Tera, Secret World or SW:ToR.
I'm not an SE hater, i'm not a FF hater, I own all but three FF's ever made, SE has just lost that touch for me with titles like FFXIII, Dirge of Cerebus, and now FF XIV.....
That's the way it should be. If you don't like it, wait for other games and don't try to change the game to suit your needs.
You're doing it right.
No MP regen is one of the little things that could make this game outstanding. So cooking will be very valueable and I'm glad people like Emeraq doing it the right way. They don't like it they don't play it thats the way it should be. Take me as an example the more I'm reading about SWTOR the more I disklike it.
Seeing a good chance here FFXIV will get a very good community.
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play." "Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."
what alot of subjects in one thread, do hope that the lack of MP will work as a tactical pro, and that there is ways of getting it up by playing in group together, get to think of EQ2s card game where you will be able to play more cards as the game go on, if you played your cards in start right, so that it would be the groups decision, do we want extra dmg in right now or do we want more power or what do we want...now would like if Hyanmen talks of FFXI or talking about leaked info....or if its their imagination of how the combat will be like....mobs with the ability to choose mid fight from several AI behaviors would be very nice.
have yet to see a proper tactical game, once figured the system its just repeat, but would be a lovely change if FFXIV get it done proper, but over all think its just the start of the game that will feel very slow, and the feel will get better later on in the game....dont care if the game is "slow", dont really want an action MMO...but an adventure with some good action.
jumping should be covered...tho still incredible to me how ppl defend lazy design, on this subject.
jumping should be covered...tho still incredible to me how ppl defend lazy design, on this subject.
Best games I've ever played have had no jumping feature. Metal Gear Solid 1 through 4, Resident Evil 5, Demon's Souls... They didn't need one, so it would have been useless to add it. Not implementing useless features should not be considered 'lazy design'.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
Well after reading an article in Game Informer Magazine there will be plenty of the Crystals to regain HP and MP around every zone so chances are you will want to camp near one for easy access and low downtime.
Well after reading an article in Game Informer Magazine there will be plenty of the Crystals to regain HP and MP around every zone so chances are you will want to camp near one for easy access and low downtime.
The developer's idea is to make groups roam from one crystal to another, not stay in one place.
If most players are going to progress by doing guildleves, this can be easily manipulated by the devs too.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
Since it's been quite a while now since there was a new topic, I thought I'd revisit an old yet interesting topic... potentially the biggest difference separating XIV from other MMOs: the lack of MP regen.
For those who didn't know, you won't be able to rest to replenish MP, in or out of combat. You'll have to visit an aetheryte node or a town in order to fill back up. Aside from a few items and abilities to get back a little MP in the field, you're stuck without the use of spells if you run out before you reach the next node. Of course you can continue to do basic attacks, TP moves, and possibly even some spells with no MP cost. But the idea is that failing to conserve your MP will result in sharply decreased effectiveness.
The concept of not regaining MP over time is fairly unique among MMOs (AFAIK) but it quite common in console RPGs. In just about any other Final Fantasy title, the MP you spend doesn't come back on its own; you have to use items or reach a place where you can rest. This makes it important to end your fights without using much MP and without taking much damage. There is an incentive to end fights quickly and efficiently because you don't want to use up MP that is costly to recover.
But we've also been told that you will rapidly regain HP in passive mode between combats, which is unlike most console RPGs. There are a few games where you automatically start each fight at full health again, but these have been the exception rather than the rule. So, what kind of strategy can we expect to come from this?
I can't help but wonder what effect this will have on the role of healer. Healers in offline RPGs have traditionally been a little bit lame. As I said above, the idea is to get through each fight losing/using a little HP/MP as possible so as to conserve your resources over the length of the whole dungeon. Individual fights rarely put any of your characters in enough danger to require an in-combat heal... most healing gets done outside of combat so that you don't waste a combat turn. So in combat these healer-types whack away with a little staff or something and do their healing outside of combat (in most situations).
Healers wil probably have heal spells within their regular skills. They might only need to use MP when they need a full heal fairly quickly. We don't know enough yet (unless I've been slackin.)
Buuuuut it may be much different in FFXIV. If what we've heard is true, you will regain HP relatively quickly just for being in passive mode (you don't have to sit and rest) and groups will be moving from fight to fight, node to node, instead of sitting in one place. If you expect to heal up to full on your own in between fights, then the need for post-combat healing is decreased. This puts healers in a rather odd role that doesn't mirror their role in console RPGs or in other MMOs. They will have to be careful about healing only as it is needed (unlike MMOs) but the healing will be done almost exclusively in combat (unlike RPGs).
Healers may just have attacks that instant heal, buff, debuff, heal over time, etc. We are dealing with a great company to rely on to bring us some new goodness.
This also brings up another question, an almost unthinkable divergance from the tank-heal-deeps trinity: will we be able to do without healers? Or even tanks? Think about how you solo as a non-healing class. The only thing you care about as you go into a fight is "Will I be able to kill this before it kills me?" The chance of you dying is the main thing that influences what you will and won't fight. In theory, the same thing could be done in a group setting. Even if everyone is in bad shape when the fight ends, all that matters is that you survived — because healing up out of combat is not an issue.
When soloing we won't need tanks and healers, but in a party you'll need them to do the good stuff... if my assumptions are correct. Surely there will be able to be non-tanks and healer groups to do some quests, but how efficient will be the question.
This is a near impossibility in other most other MMOs for a few reasons. One, there tends to be a very large gap between the tankability (damage mitigation and hate generation) of a tank class and a non-tank class. Meaning, it's very easy and very beneficial for the tank to always be the only one getting hit. So the mobs have to hit hard enough to threaten a tank (because it is a safe assumption that they are always hitting tanks), which is enough to really splatter anyone else. Second, the speed and efficiency of your kills is the only real measure of your success as a group. Resting between fights wastes everyone's time because recovering HP takes time. The efficiency of healing spells and the speed of MP recovery mean that it's almost never advantageous to let someone take damage and then NOT heal them. In FFXIV however, there is another measure of success, and that is the ability to complete the journey from node to node. It doesn't matter how fast you whizz through the first 6 fights if you don't have the MP to finish the last 2.
A few things make me think that this could be a direction that FFXIV leans towards. First, the existence of skills like Lancer's Invigorate and Ferocity that consume HP could be a hint that burning through most of your HP in a fight (safely and strategically, of course) will be a smart tactic. Second, the absence of any dedicated healing class. While Conjurer gets a healing spell (and it's AoE), it doesn't seem to be the whole point of the class. And many other classes appear to get self-heal abilities, which suggests that tanks are not the only people who will need healing. And finally, pushing group combat that pits you against a group of mobs while not giving any class AoE-tanking abilities (as far as we know) is a flat-out guarantee that non-tank classes will be taking hits. I think (or at least I hope) that that could mean that should be taking some hits and coming out of the fight a little bruised, as opposed to dps in a more conventional MMO who might never take a single hit in a 6 hour group.
Maybe Conjurer opens up a new skill set like White Mage? Maybe combinations of classes open other classes? Maybe there is a need for multiple healers and that's why there are many heal spells.
Long story short, I think it would be great if tanks were a little less tanky and healers were a little less healery, and it seems like FFXIV could support such a system. Nobody would be able to "sleepwalk" through a series of fights the way that most DPS classes (...and the others too, really) do now. It would also be a bit easier to cobble a group together from whatever you could find rather than being stuck waiting for a tank or healer to become available.
Well they are trying to make the game more casual friendly unlike FFXI... that's what most of the complaints were about. They are gearing it for casuasl yet keeping their reputation as a great company. Let's see what they can pull off.
Your thoughts? Would this be too big a change from standard MMO group combat? What other consequences might arise from having fast HP regen and no MP regen?
I don't think the change will be huge, I just think it'll be really well done. Warhammer Online has plenty skills that attack and do something else. They just seem to be adding another idea into the mix. WoW has healers that can out damage dps classes. The possibilites are endless. MP will be priceless I'm sure, but you can bet you'll be able to get around without using it often.
Possibly those spells that require MP will last an hour long like protect, shell and other buffs.
jumping should be covered...tho still incredible to me how ppl defend lazy design, on this subject.
Best games I've ever played have had no jumping feature. Metal Gear Solid 1 through 4, Resident Evil 5, Demon's Souls... They didn't need one, so it would have been useless to add it. Not implementing useless features should not be considered 'lazy design'.
those games is all single player games that have the focus action, combat and story, might be wrong on some of it havent played metal gear...to me MMOs is about the adventure, and exploring....being tied to the ground just take away the feel of freedom.
and your other post just show you incredible immature. aint like most who think its weird they didnt put in the freedom of movement - jump and swim, will stay away from the game just because of that...even if its damn lazy and it does mean there is a limitation to the exploring of the game.
All I have to say is loljump! Seriously kids yes KIDS need to stop thinking you need jump in all honestly it serves no purpose other then look I can jump just as high as you.
Why can my character withstand attacks from dragons and behemoths and what not and at the same time lack the muscle in the legs to jump?
Still havent found anything post late 2009 about jumping, so i guess its still in consideration. However. There are also posts saying no jumping, but that they might add climbing and swimming in the future. I'd be fine with climbing.
Now more on jumping.
here is a post from a FFXIV forum by a poster named aramail that resumes what i think about no jumping.
"I'm sure most of us played FFXI, and since you are in this forum you are likely to be interested in playing in FFXIV. Something that always bothered me about the game, which I have played for seven years now, is that you could not jump at all outside of DRG's ability.
It just feels so odd that your feet are glued to the ground. I also remember being frustrated in promyvion mea when we were stopped by a shin high fence that forced us to go through a small path through enemies. The least they could do is make the fence higher. "
It's lazy design, nothing less.
That thread, also has fanbois that think jumping is the root of all evil and others who think jumping will only lead to problems as in 1990 games. Ignoring those, most seem against the bunny hopping style of jump but for a climbing/swimming mechanism.
At the very least, anything shin high should be stepped over by the bigger characters while the smaller ones jump. Sort of like an autojump for small barriers.
More on that logic from another poster in that thread (really sharing it because it's logic makes sense)
Holdinveir wrote:
Think of it this way... whens the last time you came across something... and jumped.
Aurelius answered:
When was the last time you came across a shin-height fence while a goblin with a sword was chasing you?
This jumping argument can go on forever. One crowd needs jumping in every game another crowd understands that if a game is not designed with juming in mind it doesnt need jumping. Its all re-hashed argument over and over.
FFXIV does not have jumping, dont like it? Dont play it, see ya later.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore) Now Playing: N/A Worst MMO: FFXIV Favorite MMO: FFXI
All I have to say is loljump! Seriously kids yes KIDS need to stop thinking you need jump in all honestly it serves no purpose other then look I can jump just as high as you.
They let you FLY in Aion, and ppl still bitch about swimming haha.... you cannot win.
The developer's idea is to make groups roam from one crystal to another, not stay in one place.
If most players are going to progress by doing guildleves, this can be easily manipulated by the devs too.
I'm pretty much going on faith that they find a way to force people to branch out, as I don't know how I'd design the game to encourage that. The Sit 'n Camp method of group play is deeply engrained in old school MMO players, and you would need a pretty big stick or carrot to get them to move. Even if HP regens at the same rate whether running or sitting, maybe there's something psychological about recovering from combat by standing still?
I dont know why people focus so much on the word jump when the whole point is to focus on the word logic. If the movement seems illogical, immersion is quickly broken. No matter how good a story is, if you break the immersion, no one will care. Dragon Age with logical movement would be great, but once one's tried to jump, the immersion goes.
Right now when in conversations I just randomly answer, as it wont make a difference, the road is already paved. However, when the game started, I was thinking, "I better choose my answers correctly, it seems to matter", but then i had to walk around a barrel and it was over, the immersion was gone.
The lack of proper immersion leads to this:
"noob"calling
gold buying
griefing
people named like this "annoynoyingnameahhahahalol"
bad players (when someone doesn't have the will to succeed, it will ruin your game time)
etc.
About the kids that do always jump: They grow up.
About the rocks you have to walk around: They never fix it.
So i'll take the annoying kids over lazy game design any time.
The developer's idea is to make groups roam from one crystal to another, not stay in one place.
If most players are going to progress by doing guildleves, this can be easily manipulated by the devs too.
I'm pretty much going on faith that they find a way to force people to branch out, as I don't know how I'd design the game to encourage that. The Sit 'n Camp method of group play is deeply engrained in old school MMO players, and you would need a pretty big stick or carrot to get them to move. Even if HP regens at the same rate whether running or sitting, maybe there's something psychological about recovering from combat by standing still?
Most good players choose the most effective way to level.
In most recent mmos, you are penalized for grouping. WoW being the most popular. And probably 3 more at the very least I quit because playing solo was how to go from point A to point B fastest.
If its the same in FFXIV, most people will just do that.
If you have to move in a group, most people will just do that.
If its possible to switch classes after fights, people will just take turns switching to heal. (unless your mana is empty when you switch which would render crystals as "switch points")
The fastest way to level will be found in beta, when the game starts, 50% will adopt it. By the end of the first month, 85% will have learned it. There will always be that 1 group who do nothing but whine that its too hard while they dont do things properly but in the end, they suck at endgame content so its good for us .
There nothing psychological, theres just a "hey this is possible, and its better, lets do it" mentality.
I dont know why people focus so much on the word jump when the whole point is to focus on the word logic.
Ya theres a lot of logic in a video game. Lets make everything logical then and see how popular video games are.
You just need to get over the fact that there is a group of gamers that understand if a game is not developed with jumping in mind that it doesnt bother them to not have jumping. Some gamers dont require jumping because theres so much more to a game than mashing spacebar.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore) Now Playing: N/A Worst MMO: FFXIV Favorite MMO: FFXI
those games is all single player games that have the focus action, combat and story, might be wrong on some of it havent played metal gear...to me MMOs is about the adventure, and exploring....being tied to the ground just take away the feel of freedom.
and your other post just show you incredible immature. aint like most who think its weird they didnt put in the freedom of movement - jump and swim, will stay away from the game just because of that...even if its damn lazy and it does mean there is a limitation to the exploring of the game.
"Those games is all games that focus on what a game should focus on. To me MMO's aren't about being games."
Cool story, bro. I don't agree.
There are no limitations. Stop with the personal insults and bring up examples or if you have nothing of value to add to the conversation, get out.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
Comments
While I was at first planning to not derail the thread any further, since the OP himself started talking about the strategy, I think I'm allowed to do so as well.
First of all, the skills and abilities are not as black and white as in XI where you had one or two ws to spam and abilities to use as soon as they were up (most of the time).
Many more abilities require you to position yourself correctly, and I'm not simply talking about SATA here. Situations where there is clear choice to be made like hitting one mob from behind for added damage or from the front when the skill would hit three monsters instead of one. However, one of the monsters is asleep and if I hit it it'll wake up.. but on the other hand, I might be able to tank it myself for a while, and there's only 4 monsters left anyway. Although... the mages MP is already below 50% and there's no aetheryte's to be seen anywhere close. I may not have enough TP to heal myself so the conjurer may have to toss me a cure in the worst case. That said, my Shadowbind's recast is up... so maybe I could hit with my skill fast and then immediately change targets and bind the mob, giving me some time to use Multishot and store arrows for one single strong strike.
Another example: Now, we're fighting 6 enemies. If I use this skill now, other mobs will get defense down effect but the one I am fighting will get more defense.. Considering this mob is the hardest of the bunch, it might be bad to delay it's death further, but on the other hand, if we kill the 5 other mobs faster we may be able to finish the fight faster. Hm, the skill costs all my available TP though... If I use it now, I may not have enough time to generate enough hate or increase my defense in case the mob decides to do it's most devastating attack... which if it hits others would most likely kill them.
One more: I'm on my offensive stance right now, but the group is getting low on hp... if I go and pick one mob to tank now, I'll have to change to defensive stance, but it'll be weak compared to the offense I have now... so it might prolong the battle too much instead. Should I try to finish this mob fast instead and hope that the group will hold it for a little more time?
The roles aren't so clear either. DD's can crowd control and tank, tanks can DD, healers can nuke, so if you do damage you can't do as much crowd controlling or tanking, and if you nuke you can't heal if a need arises.
Since you can't just rest MP deciding how to use it effectively becomes a much bigger question too. It has to last 'till the next aetheryte, or the end of the leve.
I dont know, maybe the players that would not have quit if they would not have been almost forced to buy from gil sellers. Prior to the cleanup they did, a lot of people left to that. All they wanted was a feature to report them and have them stop ruining the economy. I bet 80% if not more of those players would have kept on with FFXI had they had seen such action taken when they demanded it. Back then, no one cared the game was "hard", they just didnt want to put up with inaction. Eventually SE realised that if they ban gil sellers, they just come back and try again, but they retain many more customers.
The trick is, not to annoy your customers. WoW succeeded in that, now most gold farmers have to hack accounts as they cannot do their business otherwise. This way, only idiots get hacked, either they buy PL, either they have a password like 123456.
The same exists with jumping, botting, even casting magic for some people. Seeing a different animation for every spell is very important to some. If all mages cast the same, they wont like the game. With the revenu an MMO generates, why not make these customers happy, less annoyed, by having someone make animations. Perhaps for the time you develop this for those players, you will make 0 profit. But if they all stay more than 3 months because they like the animations and the way things flow, the company wins. I have seen a lot quit WoW because animations were too static.
So to your "who cares?" The players. And Who else should care? Those who make the game.
The players don't care. They wouldn't play otherwise.
The point of playing any game is to look past what it doesn't have and appreciate what it has. If there are less animations, at least the animations are much more polished and detailed. Even if there are less monster types, at least all of them are well done from textures to death animation. If there is no X, Y is better. If there is everything, nothing is good. Everyone loses.
hmm skills that debuff, but at the same time buff other mobs, interesting dynamic here. Supposing AI that makes those mobs not so easy to separate some fights could be fun. Once we have a tactic that works for this group of mobs, will they adapt to it? Or once we "learn" the fight, does it only become a minor bump in the road?
WoW = learning fights. Though your strats look good, it still seems like fight learning.
If the mobs adapt or use 1 of 4 different strategies each fight, then you also need to learn to adapt to the fight. That could require thinking. Especially if they change tactics in the middle of the fight.
Although fun for a player like me, such fight will pose a real problem for 90% of gamers who wont be able to adapt. So will we be able to have a "built in" difficulty level to which the game automatically adapts to the average of the players in your group, dropping loot to a % depending on the difficulty level? To have a dynamic system, with players playing the game, some sort of rating will be mandatory.
Indeed, I forgot to mention that the AI is unlike anything I've seen before. It might be just buggy, but most of the time it acts in smart ways and makes you employ different strategies, and adapts if you do the same things over and over again.
One thing I know for sure though, monsters act differently even when we're talking about same type of monster. Some mobs try to finish you off if you're low on hp no matter what, some run off to look for backup, some try to zerg one player by all attacking him. Some get more annoyed by ranged characters attacking from distance.
There's a reason why the game starts in a way that combat seems slow though. For the precise reason that players need to learn to play before throwing them something like this. It inevitably might feel slow at first, but there's a good reason for that. You need to get familiar with it, which isn't a problem with ex-XI players considering the control scheme isn't much different from the predecessor but for any new players it's good to have some "grace" period just to get familiar with things.
Do you really care? The game is not going to have jumping and so you already said you won't be playing it...
OP: If what you say is true, you officially tipped my interest in this game from "Meh" to "Huh!?"
DDO was a great example of resource management in an MMO. Even HP does not regen unless you can find a rest shrine, and if you don't have someone to resurrect you, you can only respawn so many times as well. I actually kind of liked it.
If this is true, I may just keep my finger on this game's pulse a bit more diligently.
No MP regen is one of the little things that could make this game outstanding. So cooking will be very valueable and I'm glad people like Emeraq doing it the right way. They don't like it they don't play it thats the way it should be. Take me as an example the more I'm reading about SWTOR the more I disklike it.
Seeing a good chance here FFXIV will get a very good community.
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play."
"Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."
what alot of subjects in one thread, do hope that the lack of MP will work as a tactical pro, and that there is ways of getting it up by playing in group together, get to think of EQ2s card game where you will be able to play more cards as the game go on, if you played your cards in start right, so that it would be the groups decision, do we want extra dmg in right now or do we want more power or what do we want...now would like if Hyanmen talks of FFXI or talking about leaked info....or if its their imagination of how the combat will be like....mobs with the ability to choose mid fight from several AI behaviors would be very nice.
have yet to see a proper tactical game, once figured the system its just repeat, but would be a lovely change if FFXIV get it done proper, but over all think its just the start of the game that will feel very slow, and the feel will get better later on in the game....dont care if the game is "slow", dont really want an action MMO...but an adventure with some good action.
jumping should be covered...tho still incredible to me how ppl defend lazy design, on this subject.
Best games I've ever played have had no jumping feature. Metal Gear Solid 1 through 4, Resident Evil 5, Demon's Souls... They didn't need one, so it would have been useless to add it. Not implementing useless features should not be considered 'lazy design'.
Well after reading an article in Game Informer Magazine there will be plenty of the Crystals to regain HP and MP around every zone so chances are you will want to camp near one for easy access and low downtime.
The developer's idea is to make groups roam from one crystal to another, not stay in one place.
If most players are going to progress by doing guildleves, this can be easily manipulated by the devs too.
Don't make me necro bump ALL the jumping threads. I'll do it. I swear. ><
Don't worry. Once the retail hits the shelves we'll all get our fair share of "WTF no jumping dumb gaem ffs o wellz bk 2 mw2" threads.
I don't think the change will be huge, I just think it'll be really well done. Warhammer Online has plenty skills that attack and do something else. They just seem to be adding another idea into the mix. WoW has healers that can out damage dps classes. The possibilites are endless. MP will be priceless I'm sure, but you can bet you'll be able to get around without using it often.
Possibly those spells that require MP will last an hour long like protect, shell and other buffs.
those games is all single player games that have the focus action, combat and story, might be wrong on some of it havent played metal gear...to me MMOs is about the adventure, and exploring....being tied to the ground just take away the feel of freedom.
and your other post just show you incredible immature. aint like most who think its weird they didnt put in the freedom of movement - jump and swim, will stay away from the game just because of that...even if its damn lazy and it does mean there is a limitation to the exploring of the game.
All I have to say is loljump! Seriously kids yes KIDS need to stop thinking you need jump in all honestly it serves no purpose other then look I can jump just as high as you.
Like i said in a previous post:
Why can my character withstand attacks from dragons and behemoths and what not and at the same time lack the muscle in the legs to jump?
Still havent found anything post late 2009 about jumping, so i guess its still in consideration. However. There are also posts saying no jumping, but that they might add climbing and swimming in the future. I'd be fine with climbing.
Now more on jumping.
here is a post from a FFXIV forum by a poster named aramail that resumes what i think about no jumping.
"I'm sure most of us played FFXI, and since you are in this forum you are likely to be interested in playing in FFXIV. Something that always bothered me about the game, which I have played for seven years now, is that you could not jump at all outside of DRG's ability.
It just feels so odd that your feet are glued to the ground. I also remember being frustrated in promyvion mea when we were stopped by a shin high fence that forced us to go through a small path through enemies. The least they could do is make the fence higher. "
It's lazy design, nothing less.
That thread, also has fanbois that think jumping is the root of all evil and others who think jumping will only lead to problems as in 1990 games. Ignoring those, most seem against the bunny hopping style of jump but for a climbing/swimming mechanism.
At the very least, anything shin high should be stepped over by the bigger characters while the smaller ones jump. Sort of like an autojump for small barriers.
More on that logic from another poster in that thread (really sharing it because it's logic makes sense)
Holdinveir wrote:
Think of it this way... whens the last time you came across something... and jumped.
Aurelius answered:
When was the last time you came across a shin-height fence while a goblin with a sword was chasing you?
This jumping argument can go on forever. One crowd needs jumping in every game another crowd understands that if a game is not designed with juming in mind it doesnt need jumping. Its all re-hashed argument over and over.
FFXIV does not have jumping, dont like it? Dont play it, see ya later.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
Now Playing: N/A
Worst MMO: FFXIV
Favorite MMO: FFXI
They let you FLY in Aion, and ppl still bitch about swimming haha.... you cannot win.
I wonder if they are gonna sticky a "jump thread"
I'm pretty much going on faith that they find a way to force people to branch out, as I don't know how I'd design the game to encourage that. The Sit 'n Camp method of group play is deeply engrained in old school MMO players, and you would need a pretty big stick or carrot to get them to move. Even if HP regens at the same rate whether running or sitting, maybe there's something psychological about recovering from combat by standing still?
I dont know why people focus so much on the word jump when the whole point is to focus on the word logic. If the movement seems illogical, immersion is quickly broken. No matter how good a story is, if you break the immersion, no one will care. Dragon Age with logical movement would be great, but once one's tried to jump, the immersion goes.
Right now when in conversations I just randomly answer, as it wont make a difference, the road is already paved. However, when the game started, I was thinking, "I better choose my answers correctly, it seems to matter", but then i had to walk around a barrel and it was over, the immersion was gone.
The lack of proper immersion leads to this:
"noob"calling
gold buying
griefing
people named like this "annoynoyingnameahhahahalol"
bad players (when someone doesn't have the will to succeed, it will ruin your game time)
etc.
About the kids that do always jump: They grow up.
About the rocks you have to walk around: They never fix it.
So i'll take the annoying kids over lazy game design any time.
Most good players choose the most effective way to level.
In most recent mmos, you are penalized for grouping. WoW being the most popular. And probably 3 more at the very least I quit because playing solo was how to go from point A to point B fastest.
If its the same in FFXIV, most people will just do that.
If you have to move in a group, most people will just do that.
If its possible to switch classes after fights, people will just take turns switching to heal. (unless your mana is empty when you switch which would render crystals as "switch points")
The fastest way to level will be found in beta, when the game starts, 50% will adopt it. By the end of the first month, 85% will have learned it. There will always be that 1 group who do nothing but whine that its too hard while they dont do things properly but in the end, they suck at endgame content so its good for us
.
There nothing psychological, theres just a "hey this is possible, and its better, lets do it" mentality.
Ya theres a lot of logic in a video game. Lets make everything logical then and see how popular video games are.
You just need to get over the fact that there is a group of gamers that understand if a game is not developed with jumping in mind that it doesnt bother them to not have jumping. Some gamers dont require jumping because theres so much more to a game than mashing spacebar.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
Now Playing: N/A
Worst MMO: FFXIV
Favorite MMO: FFXI
"Those games is all games that focus on what a game should focus on. To me MMO's aren't about being games."
Cool story, bro. I don't agree.
There are no limitations. Stop with the personal insults and bring up examples or if you have nothing of value to add to the conversation, get out.