PVE or PVP, because the death blow to PVP was delivered pre-BC when they opened the battlegrounds and offered rewards for participation.
For PVE, the release of BC was the beginning of the end.
Lowering raids from 40 man to 25 man utterly destroyed raiding guilds.
Everything beyond and after that were just nails in the coffin. That includes token drops to exchange for gear etc...
Blizzard had a choice, make everything as accessibly as possible to the largest % of players, or keep things hardcore. They chose the former over the later and IMO turned their backs on the playerbase that enabled WoW to succeed past launch.
Its just not realistic to expect them to pander to a SMALLER percentage of their player base, while the larger part pays just as much money(which translates into much more profit). Profit IS the objective of this exercise, after all. Of course they would choose the larger profit over the smaller. I personally think that dungeon finder and the emblem system are some of the best ideas they have had in years.
While theres plenty of people still happily playing Warcraft there are also plenty of people that have given up for one reason or another . I would like to ask those of you who are ex-WoWplayers what you would have done differently ? What would you have prefered the WoW of today to be like ?
new graphics engine
less gear dependence
more sandbox and world pvp
skill-based combat (aiming your spells, actively blocking and dodging, etc)
the moment WoW becomes this, i'll come running back. but it won't , and GW2 will be ready. GW2 is basically the end of WoW.
<Rolls eyes>
Oh please... Every game that has been held out as a "WoW killer" has fallen FAR short of that task. Hell, they can't even keep their retention numbers post launch up, let alone come any where near WoW's numbers over YEARS. While I agree that GW2 looks amazing, its not going to kill wow. No one outside of Blizzard is any threat to WoW at this point.
There are a lot of things I didn't like about WoW. But what put me over the edge was the constant redesign of my class and the constant nerfs to it.
People like me play mmos for years because they like continuity and because they get attached to their characters. To me, every class redesign was a mini SWG NGE.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
One of the things I missed most about Ultima Online and Lineage 2 is the competition over favorable leveling and farming grounds. People joined guilds to be protected and have access to areas that made leveling easier and had good drops. Clans / Alliances fight over said land and rivalries are born.......an intrinsic motivator to PvP and a more meaningful way to get gear.
As it stands now......you could literally never leave the safety of an town after lvl 15, and make your way all the way to lvl cap + more. Something about that just doesn't seem right for a MMORPG.
Less focus on extrinsic motivators...
Such a huge focus has been put around gear that its gotten to the point where people are doing things in the game, not because they are genuinely interested in the activity....but because they are more interested in the perception that they are progressing in the game via gear upgrades.
If it wasn't bad enough that PvP has been limited to these scripted scenarios (battlegrounds), the majority of the people playing the battlegrounds could care less about playing the scenario as designed.....and instead they game a flawed reward system in the name of their personal gains (gear upgrades) Extrinsic motivators kill most of any intrinsic value players have left for the activity.
More meaningful death penalty...
I don't know the answer, and I'm not a fan of XP loss on death or full loot in a heavily item centric game.....but something should be done to cause players to critically think about what they did wrong to cause their death. Nothing more fustrating than idiot players doing the same poor practices over and over and over with no consequence.
Just deleted my WoW last Monday. The game is now a bad joke, everything is too easy and there is no more sense of accomplishment, that is what made me quit playing, PUGs and casuals running around with Kingslayer titles BAH. Ontop of that, Blizzard releasing all these pets and mounts you have to buy, they got greedy and are milking all the addicts of whatever they can squeeze out.
"Not meaning to anger anyone with this thread, though I know in these forums its quite impossible. You can say "I enjoy vanilla ice cream" and still have 50 posts of angry, hot-tempered people who have nothing better to do than argue with you." - Dirkzen
simple for me... i liked vanilla and played it to death.
BC felt wrong to me... it was like everything i had worked for was just whooped away and i had to start back again from start.
and i was simply not ready to do that.
i re-subbed for wotlk did some raiding. but i never liked it my only reason was that me and couple of my really good friends had moved to diffrent countrys so it was nice to catch up with them 2 times a week and drink couple beers and chat while playing.
but the thing for me is... i just want something new. and not the same stuff over and over again, and i susspect so many people feel the same way. and IMO that is the reason WAR AOC and all that post wow stuff is not as successful. (and yes i know wow did not make this gameplay. they have almost never done anything truly creative... they are simply taking diffrent bits and pices from other games and polishing them.) Like it or not majority of MMO gamers have played or tried wow out, and i simply think that majority of players are tierd of this kinda gameplay and want something new.
but i would like to go back to something like SWG was pre NEG. More Sandboxy.. simply becouse i liked that kinda gameplay and i am really tierd of the all the team parks that are out there.
Sorry for typos... dyslexic and just too damn lazy to proof read every post for 30 min (yes i am aware of spell check but it does not help that much
-World PvP, no DKs. Seige should have been implemented and towns should be able to be taken over for periods of time with cooldowns like raid lockouts.
Arena should be the only cross-realming. and have it's own reward gear.
BGs should go back to to realm only, and have the ranks reinstated. Honor made here should coincide with World pvp honor.
World/BG pvp pvp should have it's own gear, as well as the old ranking system. Warlords should be feared.
Raids are fine, for those who wanted to play a watered down EQ they have it. The gear should not be better than any of the pvp gear, and visa versa. It can be different, but not better.
Game lost sight when the pride in our realms and it's warlords were gone. it just lost it's fun, imho.
Crossrealming, changing races, etc... nails in the coffin for any pvp-based game. DAoC taught everyone this, and it seems only a handful of devs listened, the rest have systematically destroyed the pvp aspects of their MMOs. Hell, look at WAR and what their current plans are doing to their game. It's as if they wanted to destroy it.
Remove palas from horde, remove shamans from allie, remove server migrations and name changes, put real vs realm pvp not random realms but fixed ones , remove lfg tool, remove arenas....game balance is entirely about arenas and cannot be like that, remove double spec, remove cityes where allies and hordes are together, enemyes should only see eachother to kill one and other.
With this bring back the amazing magic this game had once..and was lost forever.
Whats funny is, that you guys say "content is too easy, lich king is too easy"
Really? Why don't you go kill him. I don't see that happening. .
Anyways, I would like to remove Arena and BG's Focus on World PVP. Maybe a server just for this.
Or, reduce how good PVP gear actually is. Like the good ol' times.
I also like 40man raids..but, dislike it too. Been there, done that. It was annoying at times espcially for guild leaders and officers to see whos not on ventrilo, or whos acting up and what not.
-Better fishing mechanics. More interactive.
-More sandboxy with professions. They seem too easy and straight forward.
I would have liked for them to remove arenas and battlegrounds, focus on world pvp as it was back in the days of launch and the first half year or whatever.
Remove cross-realm stuff.
Stop giving out free epics and makeing all the content easy mode.
Remove the helicopters, motorcycles and i saw they are adding cars in cataclysm... this shit is so lame and a huge immersion breaker for me.
And prolly tons of other reasons, these were the ones out of the top of my head.
They have taken the game in the exact opposite direction of what i liked about it, wow just feels like a lobby based game now where you just queue for dungeons and battlegrounds.
I support the above opinion. Among hundreds of other reasons why I left those sum up the easy mode casual mmorpg that is now WoW. I'm just wanting more from an mmorpg these days. That Gear Tread Mill immersion breaking bs is over and done with for me. Also the T9 clones running around Dal is another thing I hated. Oh and them selling My Little Pony's in the cash shop for little kids.
EPICS IN WoW don't exist anymore everyone has purple gear.
A man or "gamer" should look for what is, and not for what he thinks should be.
I started to really dislike World OF Warcraft when the release of Resil Gear came out, they totally Ruined World OF Warcraft, and I think stats like these need to be permently removed, and based only on basic stats the old way it was.
Sure I tried WOW after that, But Everything based on Gear, and how much real life time you put into it, ITs annoying, and totally not fun anymore, for those who have Real Lives.
Try another game, like APB, something that doesn't have goals like WOW, and all the grind fest, OMG you have 500 more resil then me, its a def win for you kinda thing. Totally SUCKS, espically when it comes to arena Gear, they need to make it so that Resil is removed.
This is why I hate wow now, and I canceld 5 Wow accounts. Big Loss for them from me, I dont really care though.
-World PvP, no DKs. Seige should have been implemented and towns should be able to be taken over for periods of time with cooldowns like raid lockouts.
Arena should be the only cross-realming. and have it's own reward gear.
BGs should go back to to realm only, and have the ranks reinstated. Honor made here should coincide with World pvp honor.
World/BG pvp pvp should have it's own gear, as well as the old ranking system. Warlords should be feared.
Raids are fine, for those who wanted to play a watered down EQ they have it. The gear should not be better than any of the pvp gear, and visa versa. It can be different, but not better.
Game lost sight when the pride in our realms and it's warlords were gone. it just lost it's fun, imho.
Crossrealming, changing races, etc... nails in the coffin for any pvp-based game. DAoC taught everyone this, and it seems only a handful of devs listened, the rest have systematically destroyed the pvp aspects of their MMOs. Hell, look at WAR and what their current plans are doing to their game. It's as if they wanted to destroy it.
You're living in some sort of fantasy world, because WoW never was a pvp based game. It is/was a PvE game with PvP added as an afterthought. The game was never balanced for world pvp.
Also, to the guy that said you can get on a flying mount and go afk for 5 minutes and get where you want, I'd like to see video of that because I've never heard of that before (perhaps he's referring to flight paths, which are not mounts).
no more teleporting except by warlock summoning, mage portal or hearthstone. The instant travel is one of the reasons why the game was no fun anymore for me
I very much agree with this . I never say never about returning to WoW because I enjoyed it for many years but this is the reason I ended up leaving . I don't think its too bad on pve servers but on pvp ones it the biggest killjoy ever what little world pvp that still existed was virtually wiped out overnight . I also think Flying mounts effected world pvp as well .
I would really have liked it if they had slowly added in some sandbox features over time... like player housing and territorial conquest. They could have done it in a way that was instanced and I wouldn't have cared.
I just got completely fed up with the raid-centric gameplay towards the end. I used to raid sooooo much and I just can't stand it anymore. Because of that one simple fact, I can no longer enjoy WOW to the extent I once did.
Exactly.. I've been saying that for over a year.. but no one listens.. Welcome to "World of Raidcraft".. There is absolutely NO sandbox features in the game at all.. NONE.. and End Game is about going through the same FREAKING dungeon over , and over and over.. What amazes me is how people can't see that..
Imagine if you were 1st level starting the game.. Lets put you in Ogrimarr.. You take your first quest, the NPC tells you to go into Ragefire and kill 5 beetles.. You complete the quest and return for reward.. He then tells you he needs more beetles, so back into Ragefire again.. This continues over and over and over for a month.... Would you continue to subscribe to that game or cancel..... I suspect that 99% would cancel and delete that game.... So I ask you.. If you wouldn't tollerate that bullchit at 1st level, why tollerate it at 80th? or 85th? Comprendo?
-World PvP, no DKs. Seige should have been implemented and towns should be able to be taken over for periods of time with cooldowns like raid lockouts.
Arena should be the only cross-realming. and have it's own reward gear.
BGs should go back to to realm only, and have the ranks reinstated. Honor made here should coincide with World pvp honor.
World/BG pvp pvp should have it's own gear, as well as the old ranking system. Warlords should be feared.
Raids are fine, for those who wanted to play a watered down EQ they have it. The gear should not be better than any of the pvp gear, and visa versa. It can be different, but not better.
Game lost sight when the pride in our realms and it's warlords were gone. it just lost it's fun, imho.
Crossrealming, changing races, etc... nails in the coffin for any pvp-based game. DAoC taught everyone this, and it seems only a handful of devs listened, the rest have systematically destroyed the pvp aspects of their MMOs. Hell, look at WAR and what their current plans are doing to their game. It's as if they wanted to destroy it.
You're living in some sort of fantasy world, because WoW never was a pvp based game. It is/was a PvE game with PvP added as an afterthought. The game was never balanced for world pvp.
Also, to the guy that said you can get on a flying mount and go afk for 5 minutes and get where you want, I'd like to see video of that because I've never heard of that before (perhaps he's referring to flight paths, which are not mounts).
I think the title of the post says "What direction would YOU have liked to have seen the game take?"
PvP wasn't an afterthought.....it just didn't make the top of the priority list upon launch. If you read the developer interviews leading up to the launch of the game, Battlegrounds (and PvP) were in the plans but time and budget constraints put it in the backseat to more "carebear" friendly aspects of the game.
With that said.......the history of the Warcraft series IS all about conflict between the two factions. There is a completely different direction they could have taken WOW, but it would have yielded less box sales and subs because of the niche following PvP has.
Blizzard could have made one of the best PvP games to hit the market, but they opted for the max subs, accessability for all approach.
I'm not knocking Blizzard for it because it was the best business model, I'm just saying they could have created a hell of a PvP game.
IF you want to look at it that way.. LIFE is repetition.. I wake up , shit , shave, drink coffee.. morning after morning after morning.. sometimes I have breakfast.. LOL
Eve and other sandbox games have much more end game then WoW.. Even Planetside has a better end game then WoW.. LOL To prove the point a little harder.. Take WoW's end game mechanics and apply it to level 1.. How many do you honestly think would stay to play the same zone OVER and OVER until the next content patch?
-World PvP, no DKs. Seige should have been implemented and towns should be able to be taken over for periods of time with cooldowns like raid lockouts.
Arena should be the only cross-realming. and have it's own reward gear.
BGs should go back to to realm only, and have the ranks reinstated. Honor made here should coincide with World pvp honor.
World/BG pvp pvp should have it's own gear, as well as the old ranking system. Warlords should be feared.
Raids are fine, for those who wanted to play a watered down EQ they have it. The gear should not be better than any of the pvp gear, and visa versa. It can be different, but not better.
Game lost sight when the pride in our realms and it's warlords were gone. it just lost it's fun, imho.
Crossrealming, changing races, etc... nails in the coffin for any pvp-based game. DAoC taught everyone this, and it seems only a handful of devs listened, the rest have systematically destroyed the pvp aspects of their MMOs. Hell, look at WAR and what their current plans are doing to their game. It's as if they wanted to destroy it.
You're living in some sort of fantasy world, because WoW never was a pvp based game. It is/was a PvE game with PvP added as an afterthought. The game was never balanced for world pvp.
Also, to the guy that said you can get on a flying mount and go afk for 5 minutes and get where you want, I'd like to see video of that because I've never heard of that before (perhaps he's referring to flight paths, which are not mounts).
I think the title of the post says "What direction would YOU have liked to have seen the game take?"
PvP wasn't an afterthought.....it just didn't make the top of the priority list upon launch. If you read the developer interviews leading up to the launch of the game, Battlegrounds (and PvP) were in the plans but time and budget constraints put it in the backseat to more "carebear" friendly aspects of the game.
With that said.......the history of the Warcraft series IS all about conflict between the two factions. There is a completely different direction they could have taken WOW, but it would have yielded less box sales and subs because of the niche following PvP has.
Blizzard could have made one of the best PvP games to hit the market, but they opted for the max subs, accessability for all approach.
I'm not knocking Blizzard for it because it was the best business model, I'm just saying they could have created a hell of a PvP game.
I agree with all that (about how it could have been more of a pvp game) but as you said, PvP was never a priority in this game. That should of been clearly evident before Burning Crusade even launched. There's nothing wrong with liking a particular style of gameplay, but all these complaints about pvp in wow is like complaining that there should be better PvE in EvE.
-World PvP, no DKs. Seige should have been implemented and towns should be able to be taken over for periods of time with cooldowns like raid lockouts.
Arena should be the only cross-realming. and have it's own reward gear.
BGs should go back to to realm only, and have the ranks reinstated. Honor made here should coincide with World pvp honor.
World/BG pvp pvp should have it's own gear, as well as the old ranking system. Warlords should be feared.
Raids are fine, for those who wanted to play a watered down EQ they have it. The gear should not be better than any of the pvp gear, and visa versa. It can be different, but not better.
Game lost sight when the pride in our realms and it's warlords were gone. it just lost it's fun, imho.
Crossrealming, changing races, etc... nails in the coffin for any pvp-based game. DAoC taught everyone this, and it seems only a handful of devs listened, the rest have systematically destroyed the pvp aspects of their MMOs. Hell, look at WAR and what their current plans are doing to their game. It's as if they wanted to destroy it.
You're living in some sort of fantasy world, because WoW never was a pvp based game. It is/was a PvE game with PvP added as an afterthought. The game was never balanced for world pvp.
Also, to the guy that said you can get on a flying mount and go afk for 5 minutes and get where you want, I'd like to see video of that because I've never heard of that before (perhaps he's referring to flight paths, which are not mounts).
I think the title of the post says "What direction would YOU have liked to have seen the game take?"
PvP wasn't an afterthought.....it just didn't make the top of the priority list upon launch. If you read the developer interviews leading up to the launch of the game, Battlegrounds (and PvP) were in the plans but time and budget constraints put it in the backseat to more "carebear" friendly aspects of the game.
With that said.......the history of the Warcraft series IS all about conflict between the two factions. There is a completely different direction they could have taken WOW, but it would have yielded less box sales and subs because of the niche following PvP has.
Blizzard could have made one of the best PvP games to hit the market, but they opted for the max subs, accessability for all approach.
I'm not knocking Blizzard for it because it was the best business model, I'm just saying they could have created a hell of a PvP game.
I agree with all that (about how it could have been more of a pvp game) but as you said, PvP was never a priority in this game. That should of been clearly evident before Burning Crusade even launched. There's nothing wrong with liking a particular style of gameplay, but all these complaints about pvp in wow is like complaining that there should be better PvE in EvE.
Well, to be fair......PvP was more sandbox and pure prior to Burning Crusade (more specifically the early years of Vanilla)
Southshore / Tauren Mill battles were infamous before battlegrounds were implemented. WOW hasn't seen world PvP on this scale since. EVEN with all the carrots they threw at Hala in Nagrand, the tower buffs for the Mana Tombs / Crypts dungeons, the stadiums in Hellfire, etc........nothing has reached the scale that the old Southshore / Tauren Mill fights (which largely had no extrinsic rewards to speak of)
Also, Vanilla BGs didn't have all the anti-premade measures that BGs have now. PvP guilds and groups of friends could jump into a BG queue and get a game within a reasonable time.....making organized group PvP feasable. Because the gear rewards were untouchable for the majority of the population queuing for BGs.....the people participating in battlegrounds were doing so because they enjoyed playing the scenario. That means the players played smarter and they worked together more because their goals were more aligned.
Where as today, all the easy to get extrinsic rewards have killed just about any bit of intrinsic motivation there is left to PvP for the joy of PvPing. THIS is why world PvP is dead. This is why you have so many people AFKing, and doing things in battlegrounds that are not specifically aligned with winning the match. Hell, some people even try to sabatoge the match so that it ends quickly and they can get in another.
Although I'm not a pvp type player, it would be nice if they brought the ranks back, just not the grind that was required to attain them. Players love titles and although they've tried to achieve that with achievement titles, it's not the same. I think as far as world pvp is concerned, the devs drew a line in the sand that basically said 'we'll have pvp, but we're not going to bastardize pve for the sake of balancing pvp'. Once that happened (and it happened very early in WoW's life), PvP in WoW become more of a diversion than anything else. Halaa was actually a good idea (I still say Nagrand is not one of if not the best zone in the game) but flying mounts in Outland made it irrelevant.
You know the irony of all this is believe it or not, it's the PvP servers that have the higher rated guilds (as far as content completion) than the PvE servers.
Although I'm not a pvp type player, it would be nice if they brought the ranks back, just not the grind that was required to attain them. Players love titles and although they've tried to achieve that with achievement titles, it's not the same. I think as far as world pvp is concerned, the devs drew a line in the sand that basically said 'we'll have pvp, but we're not going to bastardize pve for the sake of balancing pvp'. Once that happened (and it happened very early in WoW's life), PvP in WoW become more of a diversion than anything else. Halaa was actually a good idea (I still say Nagrand is not one of if not the best zone in the game) but flying mounts in Outland made it irrelevant.
You know the irony of all this is believe it or not, it's the PvP servers that have the higher rated guilds (as far as content completion) than the PvE servers.
I agree that flying mounts killed much of world PvP....but what kind of world PvP are we talking about?
Are we talking about ganking someone while they are questing or traveling to a quest area.......or are we talking about a group of Horde players hunting down a group of Alliance players?
Flying mounts might have limited the amount of open world kills of people getting blind sided while riding to the next quest hub, but it did nothing against the roving bands of faction hunters.....mostly cause they aren't there to start with.
In games like Ultima Online and Lineage 2, groups of enemy clans / factions / alliances would form and go out looking for each other.....for no other reason than kicking the other guys ass. You don't have that in WOW. If there isn't a piece of purple gear attached to the end of something (and it better not take too long!!!), it seems that you can't get anyone to do anything anymore.
Although I'm not a pvp type player, it would be nice if they brought the ranks back, just not the grind that was required to attain them. Players love titles and although they've tried to achieve that with achievement titles, it's not the same. I think as far as world pvp is concerned, the devs drew a line in the sand that basically said 'we'll have pvp, but we're not going to bastardize pve for the sake of balancing pvp'. Once that happened (and it happened very early in WoW's life), PvP in WoW become more of a diversion than anything else. Halaa was actually a good idea (I still say Nagrand is not one of if not the best zone in the game) but flying mounts in Outland made it irrelevant.
You know the irony of all this is believe it or not, it's the PvP servers that have the higher rated guilds (as far as content completion) than the PvE servers.
I agree that flying mounts killed much of world PvP....but what kind of world PvP are we talking about?
Are we talking about ganking someone while they are questing or traveling to a quest area.......or are we talking about a group of Horde players hunting down a group of Alliance players?
Flying mounts might have limited the amount of open world kills of people getting blind sided while riding to the next quest hub, but it did nothing against the roving bands of faction hunters.....mostly cause they aren't there to start with.
In games like Ultima Online and Lineage 2, groups of enemy clans / factions / alliances would form and go out looking for each other.....for no other reason than kicking the other guys ass. You don't have that in WOW. If there isn't a piece of purple gear attached to the end of something (and it better not take too long!!!), it seems that you can't get anyone to do anything anymore.
Well there is a big difference in the way both of those games play. World pvp in WoW really doesnt exist because of factors that arent present that are present in games like Lineage 2. In Lineage 2, you have castle seiges, farming areas for mats ets etc. Some of the guild wars stim from altercation's between members from previous run ins. To say they go looking for another guild for no reason really isn't true. Generally there is a reason , if nothing else than to harass an oposing guild, prevent progres, etc etc.
In WoW, you can only fight the oposimg faction which make it limited in the amount of pvp that occurs. The lack of communication between the 2 is also a factor. The only fighting that may resemble that of Lineage 2 is when a new expac hits and a guild might block out another from farming high end mats. So I don't think It really has as much to do with a purple piece of gear being attached rather than having no earthly reason to go out and fight a couple players of the opposite faction who may be questing? Seriously, i think it's more of the whole setup of the game than anything else.
Comments
Its just not realistic to expect them to pander to a SMALLER percentage of their player base, while the larger part pays just as much money(which translates into much more profit). Profit IS the objective of this exercise, after all. Of course they would choose the larger profit over the smaller. I personally think that dungeon finder and the emblem system are some of the best ideas they have had in years.
<Rolls eyes>
Oh please... Every game that has been held out as a "WoW killer" has fallen FAR short of that task. Hell, they can't even keep their retention numbers post launch up, let alone come any where near WoW's numbers over YEARS. While I agree that GW2 looks amazing, its not going to kill wow. No one outside of Blizzard is any threat to WoW at this point.
im totally sigging that.
It sucks being a hardcore player at heart but a casual player in availability. ~NightCloak
There are a lot of things I didn't like about WoW. But what put me over the edge was the constant redesign of my class and the constant nerfs to it.
People like me play mmos for years because they like continuity and because they get attached to their characters. To me, every class redesign was a mini SWG NGE.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
Less instanced content...
One of the things I missed most about Ultima Online and Lineage 2 is the competition over favorable leveling and farming grounds. People joined guilds to be protected and have access to areas that made leveling easier and had good drops. Clans / Alliances fight over said land and rivalries are born.......an intrinsic motivator to PvP and a more meaningful way to get gear.
As it stands now......you could literally never leave the safety of an town after lvl 15, and make your way all the way to lvl cap + more. Something about that just doesn't seem right for a MMORPG.
Less focus on extrinsic motivators...
Such a huge focus has been put around gear that its gotten to the point where people are doing things in the game, not because they are genuinely interested in the activity....but because they are more interested in the perception that they are progressing in the game via gear upgrades.
If it wasn't bad enough that PvP has been limited to these scripted scenarios (battlegrounds), the majority of the people playing the battlegrounds could care less about playing the scenario as designed.....and instead they game a flawed reward system in the name of their personal gains (gear upgrades) Extrinsic motivators kill most of any intrinsic value players have left for the activity.
More meaningful death penalty...
I don't know the answer, and I'm not a fan of XP loss on death or full loot in a heavily item centric game.....but something should be done to cause players to critically think about what they did wrong to cause their death. Nothing more fustrating than idiot players doing the same poor practices over and over and over with no consequence.
Just deleted my WoW last Monday. The game is now a bad joke, everything is too easy and there is no more sense of accomplishment, that is what made me quit playing, PUGs and casuals running around with Kingslayer titles BAH. Ontop of that, Blizzard releasing all these pets and mounts you have to buy, they got greedy and are milking all the addicts of whatever they can squeeze out.
"Not meaning to anger anyone with this thread, though I know in these forums its quite impossible. You can say "I enjoy vanilla ice cream" and still have 50 posts of angry, hot-tempered people who have nothing better to do than argue with you." - Dirkzen
simple for me... i liked vanilla and played it to death.
BC felt wrong to me... it was like everything i had worked for was just whooped away and i had to start back again from start.
and i was simply not ready to do that.
i re-subbed for wotlk did some raiding. but i never liked it my only reason was that me and couple of my really good friends had moved to diffrent countrys so it was nice to catch up with them 2 times a week and drink couple beers and chat while playing.
but the thing for me is... i just want something new. and not the same stuff over and over again, and i susspect so many people feel the same way. and IMO that is the reason WAR AOC and all that post wow stuff is not as successful. (and yes i know wow did not make this gameplay. they have almost never done anything truly creative... they are simply taking diffrent bits and pices from other games and polishing them.) Like it or not majority of MMO gamers have played or tried wow out, and i simply think that majority of players are tierd of this kinda gameplay and want something new.
but i would like to go back to something like SWG was pre NEG. More Sandboxy.. simply becouse i liked that kinda gameplay and i am really tierd of the all the team parks that are out there.
Sorry for typos... dyslexic and just too damn lazy to proof read every post for 30 min
(yes i am aware of spell check but it does not help that much
-World PvP, no DKs. Seige should have been implemented and towns should be able to be taken over for periods of time with cooldowns like raid lockouts.
Arena should be the only cross-realming. and have it's own reward gear.
BGs should go back to to realm only, and have the ranks reinstated. Honor made here should coincide with World pvp honor.
World/BG pvp pvp should have it's own gear, as well as the old ranking system. Warlords should be feared.
Raids are fine, for those who wanted to play a watered down EQ they have it. The gear should not be better than any of the pvp gear, and visa versa. It can be different, but not better.
Game lost sight when the pride in our realms and it's warlords were gone. it just lost it's fun, imho.
Crossrealming, changing races, etc... nails in the coffin for any pvp-based game. DAoC taught everyone this, and it seems only a handful of devs listened, the rest have systematically destroyed the pvp aspects of their MMOs. Hell, look at WAR and what their current plans are doing to their game. It's as if they wanted to destroy it.
Remove palas from horde, remove shamans from allie, remove server migrations and name changes, put real vs realm pvp not random realms but fixed ones , remove lfg tool, remove arenas....game balance is entirely about arenas and cannot be like that, remove double spec, remove cityes where allies and hordes are together, enemyes should only see eachother to kill one and other.
With this bring back the amazing magic this game had once..and was lost forever.
Whats funny is, that you guys say "content is too easy, lich king is too easy"
Really? Why don't you go kill him. I don't see that happening.
.
Anyways, I would like to remove Arena and BG's Focus on World PVP. Maybe a server just for this.
Or, reduce how good PVP gear actually is. Like the good ol' times.
I also like 40man raids..but, dislike it too. Been there, done that. It was annoying at times espcially for guild leaders and officers to see whos not on ventrilo, or whos acting up and what not.
-Better fishing mechanics. More interactive.
-More sandboxy with professions. They seem too easy and straight forward.
I support the above opinion. Among hundreds of other reasons why I left those sum up the easy mode casual mmorpg that is now WoW. I'm just wanting more from an mmorpg these days. That Gear Tread Mill immersion breaking bs is over and done with for me. Also the T9 clones running around Dal is another thing I hated. Oh and them selling My Little Pony's in the cash shop for little kids.
EPICS IN WoW don't exist anymore everyone has purple gear.
A man or "gamer" should look for what is, and not for what he thinks should be.
I started to really dislike World OF Warcraft when the release of Resil Gear came out, they totally Ruined World OF Warcraft, and I think stats like these need to be permently removed, and based only on basic stats the old way it was.
Sure I tried WOW after that, But Everything based on Gear, and how much real life time you put into it, ITs annoying, and totally not fun anymore, for those who have Real Lives.
Try another game, like APB, something that doesn't have goals like WOW, and all the grind fest, OMG you have 500 more resil then me, its a def win for you kinda thing. Totally SUCKS, espically when it comes to arena Gear, they need to make it so that Resil is removed.
This is why I hate wow now, and I canceld 5 Wow accounts. Big Loss for them from me, I dont really care though.
You're living in some sort of fantasy world, because WoW never was a pvp based game. It is/was a PvE game with PvP added as an afterthought. The game was never balanced for world pvp.
Also, to the guy that said you can get on a flying mount and go afk for 5 minutes and get where you want, I'd like to see video of that because I've never heard of that before (perhaps he's referring to flight paths, which are not mounts).
I very much agree with this . I never say never about returning to WoW because I enjoyed it for many years but this is the reason I ended up leaving . I don't think its too bad on pve servers but on pvp ones it the biggest killjoy ever what little world pvp that still existed was virtually wiped out overnight . I also think Flying mounts effected world pvp as well .
Exactly.. I've been saying that for over a year.. but no one listens.. Welcome to "World of Raidcraft"..
There is absolutely NO sandbox features in the game at all.. NONE.. and End Game is about going through the same FREAKING dungeon over , and over and over.. What amazes me is how people can't see that..
Imagine if you were 1st level starting the game.. Lets put you in Ogrimarr.. You take your first quest, the NPC tells you to go into Ragefire and kill 5 beetles.. You complete the quest and return for reward.. He then tells you he needs more beetles, so back into Ragefire again.. This continues over and over and over for a month.... Would you continue to subscribe to that game or cancel..... I suspect that 99% would cancel and delete that game.... So I ask you.. If you wouldn't tollerate that bullchit at 1st level, why tollerate it at 80th? or 85th? Comprendo?
What game is not repetition, especially at its end game?
Eve to name one.. it's called :
SANDBOX FEATURES..
I think the title of the post says "What direction would YOU have liked to have seen the game take?"
PvP wasn't an afterthought.....it just didn't make the top of the priority list upon launch. If you read the developer interviews leading up to the launch of the game, Battlegrounds (and PvP) were in the plans but time and budget constraints put it in the backseat to more "carebear" friendly aspects of the game.
With that said.......the history of the Warcraft series IS all about conflict between the two factions. There is a completely different direction they could have taken WOW, but it would have yielded less box sales and subs because of the niche following PvP has.
Blizzard could have made one of the best PvP games to hit the market, but they opted for the max subs, accessability for all approach.
I'm not knocking Blizzard for it because it was the best business model, I'm just saying they could have created a hell of a PvP game.
you odviously do not play Eve. PVP rinse and repeat...mine repeat...mission repeat...that pretty much covers it.
IF you want to look at it that way.. LIFE is repetition.. I wake up , shit , shave, drink coffee.. morning after morning after morning.. sometimes I have breakfast.. LOL
Eve and other sandbox games have much more end game then WoW.. Even Planetside has a better end game then WoW.. LOL To prove the point a little harder.. Take WoW's end game mechanics and apply it to level 1.. How many do you honestly think would stay to play the same zone OVER and OVER until the next content patch?
Have a great day
I agree with all that (about how it could have been more of a pvp game) but as you said, PvP was never a priority in this game. That should of been clearly evident before Burning Crusade even launched. There's nothing wrong with liking a particular style of gameplay, but all these complaints about pvp in wow is like complaining that there should be better PvE in EvE.
Well, to be fair......PvP was more sandbox and pure prior to Burning Crusade (more specifically the early years of Vanilla)
Southshore / Tauren Mill battles were infamous before battlegrounds were implemented. WOW hasn't seen world PvP on this scale since. EVEN with all the carrots they threw at Hala in Nagrand, the tower buffs for the Mana Tombs / Crypts dungeons, the stadiums in Hellfire, etc........nothing has reached the scale that the old Southshore / Tauren Mill fights (which largely had no extrinsic rewards to speak of)
Also, Vanilla BGs didn't have all the anti-premade measures that BGs have now. PvP guilds and groups of friends could jump into a BG queue and get a game within a reasonable time.....making organized group PvP feasable. Because the gear rewards were untouchable for the majority of the population queuing for BGs.....the people participating in battlegrounds were doing so because they enjoyed playing the scenario. That means the players played smarter and they worked together more because their goals were more aligned.
Where as today, all the easy to get extrinsic rewards have killed just about any bit of intrinsic motivation there is left to PvP for the joy of PvPing. THIS is why world PvP is dead. This is why you have so many people AFKing, and doing things in battlegrounds that are not specifically aligned with winning the match. Hell, some people even try to sabatoge the match so that it ends quickly and they can get in another.
Although I'm not a pvp type player, it would be nice if they brought the ranks back, just not the grind that was required to attain them. Players love titles and although they've tried to achieve that with achievement titles, it's not the same. I think as far as world pvp is concerned, the devs drew a line in the sand that basically said 'we'll have pvp, but we're not going to bastardize pve for the sake of balancing pvp'. Once that happened (and it happened very early in WoW's life), PvP in WoW become more of a diversion than anything else. Halaa was actually a good idea (I still say Nagrand is not one of if not the best zone in the game) but flying mounts in Outland made it irrelevant.
You know the irony of all this is believe it or not, it's the PvP servers that have the higher rated guilds (as far as content completion) than the PvE servers.
I agree that flying mounts killed much of world PvP....but what kind of world PvP are we talking about?
Are we talking about ganking someone while they are questing or traveling to a quest area.......or are we talking about a group of Horde players hunting down a group of Alliance players?
Flying mounts might have limited the amount of open world kills of people getting blind sided while riding to the next quest hub, but it did nothing against the roving bands of faction hunters.....mostly cause they aren't there to start with.
In games like Ultima Online and Lineage 2, groups of enemy clans / factions / alliances would form and go out looking for each other.....for no other reason than kicking the other guys ass. You don't have that in WOW. If there isn't a piece of purple gear attached to the end of something (and it better not take too long!!!), it seems that you can't get anyone to do anything anymore.
Well there is a big difference in the way both of those games play. World pvp in WoW really doesnt exist because of factors that arent present that are present in games like Lineage 2. In Lineage 2, you have castle seiges, farming areas for mats ets etc. Some of the guild wars stim from altercation's between members from previous run ins. To say they go looking for another guild for no reason really isn't true. Generally there is a reason , if nothing else than to harass an oposing guild, prevent progres, etc etc.
In WoW, you can only fight the oposimg faction which make it limited in the amount of pvp that occurs. The lack of communication between the 2 is also a factor. The only fighting that may resemble that of Lineage 2 is when a new expac hits and a guild might block out another from farming high end mats. So I don't think It really has as much to do with a purple piece of gear being attached rather than having no earthly reason to go out and fight a couple players of the opposite faction who may be questing? Seriously, i think it's more of the whole setup of the game than anything else.