Originally posted by Jenuviel I'm actually on the complete opposite end of the spectrum. I'd happily play a game with 500 levels and unlimited remorts (the ability to start over at level 1 with perks gained from the previous incarnations) and no raiding or pvp whatsoever. For me, that forward momentum is my primary source of enjoyment. I'm all about character growth, but not particularly about "stuff accumulation." If it had grouping all the way similar to the grouping in CoH, I'd group all the way. If it didn't, I'd solo all the way. Either way, I'd be happy.
I sit at a desk typing in patient information all day, every day, and I typically feel like very little (if any) progress has been made. When I get home, it's a relief to sit down, spend a couple of hours, and walk away with that sense of "getting somewhere" that levels give me. Sure, they're meaningless in the big picutre, but that part of me that needs to be putting one foot in front of the other gets temporarily sated by it.
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What?!? Did you say "remorts"? I haven't heard that term used since MUD's. That's probably the one thing I miss the most were things like remorts. In my MUD, remorting meant starting over from max level back down to level 1 as a slightly more powerful being (there were 3 tiers down each path) and picking a new class, choosing a couple of skills from your previous class to carry over into your "new life".
Oh those were the days, I feel ya on what you're saying. People back then just leveled because that was what was fun. And we hang out and help each other level some more. The gods of the MUD (like the developers), would sign on and host events like DM-styled quests and Bloodbath Arenas where people fought each other in a labrynth style area and duked it all in free for all fashion. People would place their bets to try and win money on the champion of the whole thing. I would bet on myself when I was at my prime, was funny because I was an 11 year old taking on grown people I miss those days (/nostalgia off)
Yes, yes and yes! One of the reasons I like Guild Wars!
Playing: Xsyon. Played: Tried: Ultima Online, Everquest 2, Age of Conan: Hyborian Adventures, Warhammer Online: Age of Reckoning, Flyff, Perfect World, Silkroad Online, EVE Online, Ryzom.
I'd basically be an FPS then, and even some FPS games have character progression.
If this was released I don't think devs would go for it, cause you can't charge a monthly fee really, people would play in shorter bursts, like rounds of Counterstrike. How does WW2 Online work?
In answer to your question in WW2 Online there is no real character progression and not much in the way of gear progression in the way most MMO'ers think of it.
Your character does go up in "ranks" for completing objectives but they don't really effect much. There are a couple of weapon unlocks that are tied to rank...you get them fairly quickly but that's about it.
On the other hand there is a form of progression in terms of how well your side (axis or allies) is doing during the campaign. The game basicaly revolves around rounds which are called "Campaigns". Each lasts a few real life weeks. During the course of the campaign your side will gain or loose territory as well as suffer losses through attrition in combat. So there is a whole meta-game aspect to the campaign. I'm actualy not fully clear on all the details of how that works....but the territory you hold effects you rate of resupply (Essentialy how quickly you replenish Kits/equipment for your sides soldiers after they ge killed) as well as things like researching more advanced weapons for your side to use during the campaign...which start showing up during the campaign. Once a campaign is over, everything resets back to it's start point for the next campaign.
Honestly I like the setup alot. Even though there is no individual character progression, the sense of accomplishment that you get from doing things that advance your sides position in the campaign is actualy far greater then anything I've experienced in any other MMO. You're actualy changing the game-world, the campaign, the "story-arc" and your own sides fate due to your characters own individual actions. I think part of the reasons why it works well in this particular context is that they picked the right scale in terms of time and distance. The map IS truely a grand scale.... think 100's of KM's literaly. Your could probably fit the entire campaign map of WOW in there a 1000 times over. That means that your not just fighting the same battle over and over and over again over a little patch of territory like you are in many PvP based MMO's. The other thing is that the scale of weeks for each campaign, makes it seem like there is a real solid sense of progress and flow to the campaign. It's slow enough that there isn't that sense of rinse, repeat, rinse, repeat that you get say from playing Battlefield games. Yet there is also a definitive start and a defnitive end....so that if one side is getting beat up badly during a campaign...you know that a few weeks down the line you'll get a fresh start.
Anyway that's what I like about it....I'm sure like most games if you play it hardcore for a few years without breaks it is going to start to get old.... but really. You can't ask any more from a game then that.
It seems many people are all about end game raiding these days.
So would you play a MMO that was all about raiding, and gear progression with no character progression?
You could still customize your character with talent trees or something.
If there was a game like this, I think there would be a ton more raid content than current games, since developers wouldn't have to make content for leveling.
Personally, I don't know if I'd play a game like this, because I like advancing my character through levels and abilities more than just getting new shiny pieces of gear. And I don't like raiding that much.
There is, it's called SecondLife lol but no raiding... yet. There is good combat though, mainly PvP but some MOB's, and some skills too. Gear progression is what you buy or make. But 1.5 million people play every month currently, so your OP seems to be a yes. Of course not all 1.5m play it as an mmorpg/fps.
I am fed up with 'leveling' all my characters. I would definately welcome an MMO without the 'leveling' part.
I would like a game where I could jump into end level content without mindless months of grinding. What is really the point of spending months to get into playing with the big boys anyway?
What I would like, is a game where I could earn different skills and gear without leveling part. I see no problem entering a dungeon with only 1 attack skill on my toon to get my gear. After all, would not that be more realistic when I was newb? More skills to those who have played longer, but not necessarily weaker hits with my f.ex sword.
presumably any such game would only show progress by altered equipment? so character differences would only be cosmetic or purely gear based. potentially then someone could use credits etc to buy the top items on day one without any effort. so, no, i would not be in favour of this - i find it better that someone has to put in time and effort and a little bit of skill to develop through a reward system.
I am playing a MMO like that actually. The name of it is Face of Mankind.
"Traditionally, massively multiplier online games have been about three basic gameplay pillars combat, exploration and character progression. In Alganon, in addition to these we've added the fourth pillar to the equation: Copy & Paste."
I prefer a game where progression is entirely optional. Either where the game itself is enjoyable at any level, or there is no level progression at all and everyone is equal. My problem with progression in traditional MMOs that it almost always pushes people to become addIcted to the grind. It becomes more of a job or an obsession than an enjoyment.
Ya, Face of Mankind is one of rare MMOs that has no character progression at all.
One other game that comes to my mind is Monster Hunter Freedom Unite on PSP. Not really MMO, but you can play with other people and there are alot of MMO elements like crafting, getting gear, killing monsters, gathering trophies, doing missions
Comments
What?!? Did you say "remorts"? I haven't heard that term used since MUD's. That's probably the one thing I miss the most were things like remorts. In my MUD, remorting meant starting over from max level back down to level 1 as a slightly more powerful being (there were 3 tiers down each path) and picking a new class, choosing a couple of skills from your previous class to carry over into your "new life".
Oh those were the days, I feel ya on what you're saying. People back then just leveled because that was what was fun. And we hang out and help each other level some more. The gods of the MUD (like the developers), would sign on and host events like DM-styled quests and Bloodbath Arenas where people fought each other in a labrynth style area and duked it all in free for all fashion. People would place their bets to try and win money on the champion of the whole thing. I would bet on myself when I was at my prime, was funny because I was an 11 year old taking on grown people
I miss those days (/nostalgia off)
Yes, yes and yes! One of the reasons I like Guild Wars!
Playing: Xsyon.
Played:
Tried: Ultima Online, Everquest 2, Age of Conan: Hyborian Adventures, Warhammer Online: Age of Reckoning, Flyff, Perfect World, Silkroad Online, EVE Online, Ryzom.
In answer to your question in WW2 Online there is no real character progression and not much in the way of gear progression in the way most MMO'ers think of it.
Your character does go up in "ranks" for completing objectives but they don't really effect much. There are a couple of weapon unlocks that are tied to rank...you get them fairly quickly but that's about it.
On the other hand there is a form of progression in terms of how well your side (axis or allies) is doing during the campaign. The game basicaly revolves around rounds which are called "Campaigns". Each lasts a few real life weeks. During the course of the campaign your side will gain or loose territory as well as suffer losses through attrition in combat. So there is a whole meta-game aspect to the campaign. I'm actualy not fully clear on all the details of how that works....but the territory you hold effects you rate of resupply (Essentialy how quickly you replenish Kits/equipment for your sides soldiers after they ge killed) as well as things like researching more advanced weapons for your side to use during the campaign...which start showing up during the campaign. Once a campaign is over, everything resets back to it's start point for the next campaign.
Honestly I like the setup alot. Even though there is no individual character progression, the sense of accomplishment that you get from doing things that advance your sides position in the campaign is actualy far greater then anything I've experienced in any other MMO. You're actualy changing the game-world, the campaign, the "story-arc" and your own sides fate due to your characters own individual actions. I think part of the reasons why it works well in this particular context is that they picked the right scale in terms of time and distance. The map IS truely a grand scale.... think 100's of KM's literaly. Your could probably fit the entire campaign map of WOW in there a 1000 times over. That means that your not just fighting the same battle over and over and over again over a little patch of territory like you are in many PvP based MMO's. The other thing is that the scale of weeks for each campaign, makes it seem like there is a real solid sense of progress and flow to the campaign. It's slow enough that there isn't that sense of rinse, repeat, rinse, repeat that you get say from playing Battlefield games. Yet there is also a definitive start and a defnitive end....so that if one side is getting beat up badly during a campaign...you know that a few weeks down the line you'll get a fresh start.
Anyway that's what I like about it....I'm sure like most games if you play it hardcore for a few years without breaks it is going to start to get old.... but really. You can't ask any more from a game then that.
What do you do at end game?
There is, it's called SecondLife lol but no raiding... yet. There is good combat though, mainly PvP but some MOB's, and some skills too. Gear progression is what you buy or make. But 1.5 million people play every month currently, so your OP seems to be a yes. Of course not all 1.5m play it as an mmorpg/fps.
M59, UO, EQ1, WWIIOL, PS, EnB, SL, SWG. MoM, EQ2, AO, SB, CoH, LOTRO, WoW, DDO+ f2p's, Demos & indie alpha's.
Definitely, I hate the same-ol, same-ol cookie-cutter level/class based games. Evolve already damnit! An end to the mindless end-game bs rush to.
Being an MMO it'll likely lack many features that make progression-less gameplay worthwhile.
I'd play any MMO with a dynamic world, good PvP, and deep character customization. Leveling is pointless IMO.
No Chance
I am fed up with 'leveling' all my characters. I would definately welcome an MMO without the 'leveling' part.
I would like a game where I could jump into end level content without mindless months of grinding. What is really the point of spending months to get into playing with the big boys anyway?
What I would like, is a game where I could earn different skills and gear without leveling part. I see no problem entering a dungeon with only 1 attack skill on my toon to get my gear. After all, would not that be more realistic when I was newb? More skills to those who have played longer, but not necessarily weaker hits with my f.ex sword.
Make us care MORE about our faction & world pvp!
presumably any such game would only show progress by altered equipment? so character differences would only be cosmetic or purely gear based. potentially then someone could use credits etc to buy the top items on day one without any effort. so, no, i would not be in favour of this - i find it better that someone has to put in time and effort and a little bit of skill to develop through a reward system.
I am playing a MMO like that actually. The name of it is Face of Mankind.
"Traditionally, massively multiplier online games have been about three basic gameplay pillars combat, exploration and character progression. In Alganon, in addition to these we've added the fourth pillar to the equation: Copy & Paste."
I prefer a game where progression is entirely optional. Either where the game itself is enjoyable at any level, or there is no level progression at all and everyone is equal. My problem with progression in traditional MMOs that it almost always pushes people to become addIcted to the grind. It becomes more of a job or an obsession than an enjoyment.
sure thing.
world progression > character progression.
Hype train -> Reality
Ya, Face of Mankind is one of rare MMOs that has no character progression at all.
One other game that comes to my mind is Monster Hunter Freedom Unite on PSP. Not really MMO, but you can play with other people and there are alot of MMO elements like crafting, getting gear, killing monsters, gathering trophies, doing missions