Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
General: Five MMO Facets that Need Innovation
MikeB
Community ManagerAdministrator RarePosts: 6,555
MMORPG.com's Bill Murphy examines five MMO facets that could stand to be spiced up a bit in this week's list.
I’m not one that’s prone to complain. Generally, even as a critic, I can find the upsides of every negative. I’m habitually and uncontrollably a “glass half full” kind of guy. Still that doesn’t mean I’m content with everything to remain as is because there’s no room for improvement. I love MMOs, and I’ve long since learned that their weaknesses are sometimes what define them as a genre of games. There’s a growing sentiment that MMOs aren’t evolving but rather remaining stagnant because of some cynical viewpoint that everyone just wants to duplicate WoW’s success. I think companies are starting to realize that WoW is a fluke of the industry, and hopefully that means that the designers will be able to seek what designers should always strive for: innovation. It may be incremental, but I do believe the evolution of the MMO is already underway with currently released titles and those on the horizon. Here then is a laundry list of things I’d love to see touched by innovation.
#5 Instancing
There is a sizable group of folks who believe that instancing should simply be done away with. I can’t quite agree with them, but I understand the sentiment. Instancing serves as a very valuable tool for story-telling among other things and rather than have it done away with, I’d love to see developers find a way to disguise it and utilize it in a way that goes unnoticed by the player. The current main use of instancing is for dungeons as a way for developers to control the complexity and difficulty of specific epic encounters. It’s a good way to help your characters feel powerful in the face of a dangerous enemy, or to deliver a specific scripted encounter that serves a narrative purpose. But what else can the tool be used for? And no, separating players because your technology isn’t designed to have lots of people in the same area isn’t a good evolution. Let’s keep these games massive in their population please.
Comments
Link is broken.
Aye link is broken, takes me back to news page.
Ahh infinite loops!
*edit after reading*
I would agree for the most part. With nearly everything here.
1. We need to bring back a lot of the "open world" back to MMOs, and we SHOULD have the technology now with ever faster computers and network connections. I think we have gone too far in the "pretty graphics" direction and as such lost a lot on our way. Still, use of instances can have positive effect if done right. I think WoW has really started on the right track with their "phasing" technology, but we just have to make sure it doesn't go too far.
2. Story. Story is very subjective. I don't care about the world's story or history, i care about MY story. This is a MMORPG not a single player RPG. give me the old school UO story - there was none - just what actions players do effects the story of the game and the devs keep up. EvE Online is the only MMO that currently comes close.
3. Levels - I am with you get rid of them. Go back to skill based progression, but NOT horrible skill grind progression ala SWG or some such. No jumping or swimming skills or anything ridiculous like that, no afk macro'ing or attacking walls or any of that nonsense. A quality, AAA designed skill system.
4. Quests - get RID of solo personal quests entirely. Make everything open world dynamic public quests. A quest is only solo if you are the only one doing it at the time. GW2 ideas on crack please.
5. Combat - I won't be satisfied with MMO combat till we have Legends of Zelda or God of War or Devil May Cry style combat in a massively multiplayer online world that doesn't sacrifice 1-4 to do so. Guess I'll be waiting a while.
#5
FFXIV phasing
.
Hey guys, the links all good now.
Now it's fixed, thanks.
NPCs that don't just stand there. Sure, we've got a few walkers here and there but, really, would it kill to get these poor saps a chair every now and again? And a couple of breaks. I'm pretty sure none of the bankers have had a piss break in several years. NPC worker rights!
Not just another pretty color.
I agree on some.
5. Instances - Yea I was never a big fan when these came out and it takes away some of the gameplay. Currently a neccessary evil.
4. Questing - I also have hopes for GW2. I just want a system where if I kill 20 Ogres running to a quest giver, he doesn't tell me to go kill 10 Ogres. I just killed 20, what do you want 10 more for?
3. Leveling - I disagree here. leveling has been staple since P&P days. Whether you gain exp or you gain skill points whatever its all the same.
2. Story - The community probably can't handle long drawn out story-telling. I dunno how much in this direction MMOs want to go. The story is supposed to be something you make, not follow here. And I don't know character-driven narrative, like WoW making you the one who kills X or sets free Y which impacts Z. I mean just stories from travels, people you meet, and battles you encounter. Stories are some things that probably can never beat D&D. For example I remember fondly of a D&D encounter that was just "walk down the hill" but everyone rolls a 1-4 on the dexterity check and we all start tumbling headfirst down the stupid hill. There was no narrative, there was no quest involved, it just happened, it was funny, and it sticks in my mind to this date.
1. Combat - I see no problem with pressing a key to attack. Again like leveling these are tried and true things that were not originally complex, so I see no reason to add layers of complexity.
"They essentially want to say 'Correlation proves Causation' when it's just not true." - Sovrath
Yeah, I'd agree with a lot of these points. Honestly, SWG had a fine leveling system, prior to the NGE. I'm surprised more haven't to refine this. Call a class whatever you want, it still comes down to tanking, healing, and DPS.
Combat is a tough one. The problem, to me, is the mob one fights and how many mobs are required. To start, if a mob stands in one place and hits me, I'll stand in one place and do whatever is most efficient to kill the mob. If it takes 2 skills or 7 skills, I'll find my method and repeat it until the mob is dead. That can be fixed with interesting mob mechanics and AI. However, if I have to pull out some crazy tactics on 5 million mobs while I level, I'm going to go insane. Battles need to feel important, I'm tired of killing butterflies (or dying because of butterflies) and rats.
We, as gamers, are to blame as well. We don't embrace change very easily. Whenever a company does try to change things up, we freak out. As much as we hate the "kill ten rats" quests, some people get weirded out when they're gone.
It seems refreshing to notice that games like gw2 appear to be trying to improve all of these. Take for example combat they know have interactible objects like being able to pick up rocks sticks etc, greater emphasis on positioning and movement rather than efficiency of using a skill bar. As well as emphasis on skill mechanics like knock back-walls and cross class combo's
In story they appeared to have gone the oldschool rpg method of trying to create a an almost unique experience for each players character by giving them multiple choice's throughout the game with greater focus on thought provoking options rather than what gear will that option give me.
The events system helps removes the single player mentality of playing an mmo since playing with other people isn't actually detrimental to you and can actually make battles more exciting.
The sidekick system also greatly reduces the importance of levels essentially making all content still playable at at max level so potenially the entire game becomes "endgame content" as it really should have always been. Questing has also already been mentioned through the event system.
It's nice to see some companies actually trying to chang things rather than being preoccupied with making a quick buck.
I believe you meant Arena Net not NetDevil.
I think instances are a great way to add story elements, and that story elements should be optional. Some of the best stories in MMOs have nothing to do with the devs - it's stuff the players create as in diaries, you tubes, etc. - give the players the tools and they can write the stories for you.
Personally, skill or level based is all the same to me - especially with all the alternate advancement stuff that is prevalent in the level based games.
The big area that needs to be improved is not quests, tasks, kill experience (though something in that area would be very welcome just because it would be different). It's CONTENT - flat out devs need to figure out how to keep up with us but not just in spewing out the same old content with new names and faces - actually create new content.
I don't have a problem with quests - I just don't like it when the same quest gets used over and over, that just wrapping up kill grinding in brown paper. At least wrap it with a bow and offer something that makes it stand out. Or if that is just impossible can we just wrap all the repetitive stuff into it's own interface? Better yet just create a device that spits out tasks on demand, hmmm SWG has that don't they?
My point is that players demand a ton of content and to meet deadlines a lot of time it's just copy, paste, and adjust that devs fall back on. I can understand that to a degree, devs are human too and actually have real lives. What it boils down to is that there is a lot of been there done that in the industry right now, it would be nice to see some innovation.
I'm not quite sure how you innovate combat when no matter what system you are playing on, you are still pressing keys to attack.
there is always the fps type of combat as in planetfall or darkfall. then again, there it ends up after a while as the same - instead of keyboard buttons, you mash the mouse button. at least though you can't walk away and get a drink in the meantime.
regarding instancing, say what you wany, but wow attempted with phasing someting pretty neat with reagards to changing the environment. ff-XIV seems to implement it, and lotro has it also to some extent, in contrast to wow spread throughout the game in tiny pieces, wheras wow has it in nothrtrend only, but in good "chuncks."
Hahaha this post is pure awesome. Agree! +1
Laudanum - Romance. Revenge. Revolution.
Crappy, petty people breed and raise crappy, petty kids.
I think Crafting needs to be on this list somewhere. Maybe replace instancing or story since those always seem to be in flux in MMO design anyway.
I always attempt to craft in MMOs, and I usually have fun in the beginning, but actually maxing out a crafting profession usually ends up boring me to tears. Although, I think Vanguard takes things in the right direction with giving you recipe work orders with the materials included(saves on all that gathering BS just to level a craft.
Also, SWG had the BEST resource gathering idea ever and should be copied, if possible. Fantasy makes this tough I know, but hey, magic factories aren't that far of a stretch.
The question is how combat is being used in the game. If you have to kill a million rats, and combat is overly repetitive, then you are correct. Each kill de-emphasizes combat, and it becomes a routine. In many games, combat is about becoming efficient, and little to do with strategy.
Developers can fix combat by changing how combat is used. if they decide that we need to kill a million mobs in order to prove our quality, then combat becomes either a tedious mess, or a mindless game of repetition. If combat remains meaningful, and the fights themselves are tactical, then progress is being made.
The thing with combat is that a lot of people play MMOs because of how slow and easy the combat is.
It allows them to socialize while playing, to type out text, and to read text.
Also the more action packed the combat gets, the more twitch skills come into play. And yes a lot of the younger FPS crowd love twitch gaming, since they can show how good they are by how quickly they can react and push buttons. However human beings reaction time slows as they age, this means that now an older person can never compete with the younger ones and the game is forever unbalanced. I myself like both, and I do play a lot of FPS because I like that my skills can win. Just like a play a lot of RTS games (not many recently as C&C has turned into twitch gaming) because I enjoy that my mind can win, and that I have time to take the actions I have planned out instead of always mashing buttons until it's over.
A lot of more casual gamers play MMOs now, and casual gamers also tend to appreciate the slower/easier based combat that is clicking 2 4 3 1 2 5 2.
There definetly should be some action based, real time combat MMOs out there. But it can't be all of them or you drive off a good portion of the market.
I agree with most of the thing you say, but:
1. Combat is something that cannot be changed easy. I think there are 3 types of combat in MMO's. First you have passive combat where you only press a number so now and then, like in WoW. Second you have full interaction like in Gunz. I don't think Gunz is really an MMO, but it's listed as one on many sites. Last you have the hybrid, like AoC. I think that combat system sucked. Played around with it and I couldn't get used to it. Most of the time I didn't know if the game did what I asked. The problem is when you make something that's fully interactive, it's gonna be compared to something like Gunz. If it's not, it's gonna be compared with WoW. It would take a clever mind or many years before a good hybrid is gonna be made.
2. A better leveling system already here. Skilled-based lvl'ing would be a huge improvement, for me. I've played Runescape, like much people, and I really liked the skilled-based leveling. So, if more games use it and perfect it, that could be the new way of leveling.
3. Questing is something I don't think needs to be changed. The basics are there and they are solid. More different quest is always good. Also storytelling don't need to be changed, because I never read the text in a quest. I don't care about the story of a MMO. I also think the grinding needs to change, but also not. At the moment I'm playing Battle of the Immortal. I like it, but it's gameplay is 90% grinding. So, that breaks my statement. Change is welcome, but maybe not necessary, for me.
All this is my opinion and you maybe think I'm wrong, but these are my comments
Easily , you make it more tactical so depending on what your foe is doing you have to vary your attack. How easy it is to impliment is another matter.
And to add one of the best leveling sytems I have seem was in a MUD dragonrealms , depending on the class type you played certain skills had to be at a level before you could move to the next class level.
All skills and experience fed into a tank which slowly drip fed a skill increase, if you diesd you lost an ammount of the xp not converted to permanent. This generated the need to perform or play a large variety of roles and was thoroughly fun.
This also limited powerleveling , and there was a real death penalty again great fun.
________________________________________________________
Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
A good list, that, to sum it up, is saying the entire industry needs to start innovating. The only facet that developers seem to want to try new things with is their crafting systems and guild/social systems have already reached a pretty adequate level.
Generally, a nice article. I have to disagree with combat though. If i wanted active combat like you suggest, I have Monster Hunter Tri for that. I will play Tri for a couple-few of hours at most. For MMOs, I could play all day if i have an active one going, I don't right now. Part of the reason for that is it is a little more... laid back then an FPS or Action type game.
parrotpholk-Because we all know the miracle patch fairy shows up the night before release and sprinkles magic dust on the server to make it allllll better.
5. Instances: Currently they are being inappropriately implimented and utilized by the industry. They are providing the exact same encounters over and over again to players who soon learn to roll them for loot as fast as they can and move on. Instances shouldn't be static locations on a map, but dynamic locations that the player is taken to in order to accomplish a missing (obstensibly) that only they can perform (both skill-wise as well as story-wise). A variety of setups, a variety of encounters, plug-in values if you like, but enough variety to them to be able to generate hundreds of seemingly random instanced encounter zones.
4. Questing: Goes along with the instances above. Missions, quests, tasks, whatever you want to call them, they need variety. While the leveling system (I'll go into that later) used in Horizons (now Istaria) was HORRIFIC, the questing system was at least moderately interesting. There were at least 6 diffferent quests available in random order from each questgiver, and you could cycle thru them to get to one you really liked. This made the GRINDING HORROR of the leveling system almost barable. Almost, but not quite. Some variety in quests, not variety in difficulty of the quests, but in what you're doing, germain to the task that you would expect to be doing for said questgiver, would go along way. Kill X Y's, get gold. BLEH! Spice it up a little more than that, and you have something. Offer different quests.
3. Leveling: Yeah, get rid of classes. The whole class-based leveling system blows. If you want to offer packages of skills thru quest lines en lieu of leveling, that would be an option, and allow players to customize their characters and their skills by selecting the training packages they like as they advance thru their character development. Optionally, you could remove the ability to select skills at all, and have characters auto-level skills as they use them, so that they get the character they play, whether or not they want it. However, getting rid of numbers won't help the system, because we're stuck in a rut about numbers. Big numbers means we're important people, and like little girls at a Jonas Bros. concert, we all like that special feeling we get when a really huge crit goes off because we're just that awesome.
2: Story: Modern MMOs aren't geared towards player-advanced storylines. More specifically, they are geared to isolate the actual storyline from the player and remove them from any sort of meaningful world interaction. While superficially the quest chains and progression may appear to be player-driven, the world is so static that nothing the player does ever changes anything. Some games have tried to phase zones to reflect the current state that a player is in regarding events in that zone, but another player won't see the same things unless they're on the same step. That isn't a player-driven storyline, it's a travesty. GW2 seems to be heading in the right direction with their dynamic questing system, having resources available to players when a particular area is put under player control, and if they leave it unattended, it reverts to an NPC/Mob-controlled state that the players have to seize control of again. Taking that a step further, the whole world should be a network of such zones, allowing for various factions (GW2 has only one player faction, despite the new races, everyone is friendly-ish) to seize control of zones and expand their actual ZoC (Zone of Control) to the game world map, changing borders, alteriung mob encounter locations, and even seeing borders shrink if, as with WoW now, players aren't actively using certain areas (like Southshore, the southern Barrens, etc). Having such areas become more dangerous based on a lack of player interaction with them would be a way of creating player-driven stories and world events.
However, as I said, the current game engines aren't geared towards allowing such things.
1. Combat: Most games make combat the primary way one advances their character. EQ2 and a few others, including Vanguard, tried to include alternative class systems, like Diplomacy and Tradeskilling, but they are still tied to the concept of an adventuring/combat class as a primary method of advancing one's self. To bring down the combat monster, as it were, alternative methods of viable player advancement need to be doable. So long as tradeskilling is tied to the adventuring zones a player enters at the relative level he should be tradeskilling at, this won't change. I've proposed, to much positive feedback, that a game should have such avenues open to it, and that a traditional adventuring party should be replaced with the dynamic party system employed by most television drama shows instead of most RPGs.
Let's take the almost released, but no semi-defunct, SGW. Soldier, Scientist, Engineer... Sounds like a typical SG-1 setup to me. O'Neil/Teal'c, Carter, and Jackson. But let's go one step further and dumb this down a little more so that it becomes really obvious: Adventurer, Tech, Builder, and Merchant. The dynamics of such a group would be awesome. A couple adventurers, hired by the merchant, to escort him and his tech and builder thru dangerous terrain in order to get to a far off city where he can sell his goods (and those of his builder) for a huge profit, a portion of which will be paid to the adventurers as their commision. But it gets better! While going thru said dangerous terrain, they encounter a location with lost technology/magic, which the tech is able to examine and reverse engineer into something wonderful. Then the builder helps him replicate it, and everyone gets one. And because it was just that group there, only they have such devices, so they're gonna be cooler than traditional raiders. Now the merchant has even better stuff to sell, and his profits will be even larger! So they get to the town and because the merchant is a business savvy guy, he manages to work the local markets and does quite well. In fact, he's able to take the stuff that the group found that was 'junk' and sell it off for more than the others could have on their own.
So why is this all special? Because the entire party is made of PCs, including the merchant. But what? The merchant is the one who offered the quest. Yep. Player-driven quests, commissioned work orders, and contract hiring of your fellow PCs. Solves a lot of problems we've been discussing all at once, doesn't it?
And all of it solves the combat system being the only viable means of advancement problem. In my example, adventurers would be the combat-oriented class, advancing primarily thru combat and mob encounters. Techs would advance thru interactions with non-mob encounters (traps, secret areas, and hidden tech/magic). Builders are your traditional tradeskillers, advancing by making things and finding new recipes (or learning them from techs). And Merchants are something that is a recent phenom: the AHer. They would be primarily concerned with their reuptation (their name and brand recognition) since the better that is, the more they can sell 'junk' for, and the lower their broker fees will be, equalling better profits for them and their group.
Just the random ideas from someone who spends way too much time thinking about these things. My ideas are copywritten already, though.
I agree with all and think more mmo's should be FPS combat styled.
But then you got the old farts or people who cant aim, that will whine saying they get roflstomped because of the FPS mechanics.
So hopefully they start getting with technology and introduce more FPS mmo's, by bigger companies, a lot of them are failing atm due to no funding and just low staff, low budget dev teams.
I agree with the areas listed in your article. But I think there are some other areas I would like to see re-evaluated as well.
Crafting: I crafting system that is rewarding for both adventurers as crafters. Meaning crafted items are valuable commodities in the economy and looted items play an important role as ingredients.
Diplomacy: A faction system with clear consequences which drives both the storyline and questing.
The Endgame: Lastly I would love to see a MMORPG without a classic top-end raiding system. A game where group and individual encounters are the backbone of the endgame instead of 18 or 24 timeconsuming raidencounters.
personally i think questing should be the no1 priority. I love single player RPG's because they have a lot more diversity in quests than MMO's (there are still kill X rats quests but they aren't as common as they are in MMO's).
The other aspects of MMO's are fine currently, just the quests that need a real shake up.
MMO wish list:
-Changeable worlds
-Solid non level based game
-Sharks with lasers attached to their heads