Most people play the game for the fun, to be subject to a score does not state how fun a player is to group with.
I see groups being thrown together then a Speed run through an Instance, no chatting, not a"thanx for the help, hope to see ya again".
Only Chatting i see is Grief, "you dont have the Gear score needed to run this"
Game = fun
WoW = not (anymore)
Agreed.. kinda hard to have fun even with lil things like people crying "NINJA".. "Billy Bob ninja'd my Dalaran mustard.. you beastard".. "OMFG, get off my mushroom you noob".. or "Go fish your own node, f*cktard".. I think you get the idea.. And that was just crafting drama.. OH.. lets not talk about all the drama with mineral nodes.. Uh huh.. Excellent game design and community..
You are trying bite off too much .. no wonder you got burned.
3K is too low for Heroics. It is a number game ... accept it or dont play. At 3K gearscore, no matter how skill you are, you are not going to do more dps like like 1.5-2k ..... or you wont heal enough, or you die too easily as a tank. I have no obligation to carry you through heroics. Sometimes i do carry DPS just because i am nice .. but once again, there is no obligation to do so.
You can always run normal dungeons and no one will kick you. Gear up and do the appropriate dungeon.
I am sick of this skill over gear fantasy. If you have 4k gearscore, you are just not going to do 8k dps in ICC, no matter how good you are. And you will drag down the raid.
4.9k is close enough to do ICC 10 though.
3k is fine for heroics (except for the ICC 5 mans).
It is not fine. It is possible for an extreme good player, or someone to be carried but certainly won't be an efficient run, particularly if it is the healer or the tank.
For example, 3k GS is NOT enough for a healer to heal through the nova of Loken.
Most people play the game for the fun, to be subject to a score does not state how fun a player is to group with.
I see groups being thrown together then a Speed run through an Instance, no chatting, not a"thanx for the help, hope to see ya again".
Only Chatting i see is Grief, "you dont have the Gear score needed to run this"
Game = fun
WoW = not (anymore)
Obviously it is fun enough for many to still keep playing. In fact, fun enough for most to use GS .. if it is so bad, why are people using it?
Plus, if you are getting "you dont have the Gear score needed to run this" .. that means you are not going to teh right instances. It is easy to get up to an "accepted" GS to run anything (do H until you have close to 5k gs, then run some easy raids .. it is not rocket science). If you can't do that, you should spend a little time running lower tier content. With dungeon finder, there is no excuse no be able to do that.
Sure there is little chatting running through an instance. But people don't go to WOW just to chat. MSN is for chatting, WOW is for gaming. If you really want to just chat, strike up a conservation in DAL (i have done that many times) or join a chatty guild. There is no reason to chat when running through a dungeon.
Sure, it is no fun for you. You can certain play something else.
You are trying bite off too much .. no wonder you got burned.
3K is too low for Heroics. It is a number game ... accept it or dont play. At 3K gearscore, no matter how skill you are, you are not going to do more dps like like 1.5-2k ..... or you wont heal enough, or you die too easily as a tank. I have no obligation to carry you through heroics. Sometimes i do carry DPS just because i am nice .. but once again, there is no obligation to do so.
You can always run normal dungeons and no one will kick you. Gear up and do the appropriate dungeon.
I am sick of this skill over gear fantasy. If you have 4k gearscore, you are just not going to do 8k dps in ICC, no matter how good you are. And you will drag down the raid.
4.9k is close enough to do ICC 10 though.
3k is fine for heroics (except for the ICC 5 mans).
It is not fine. It is possible for an extreme good player, or someone to be carried but certainly won't be an efficient run, particularly if it is the healer or the tank.
For example, 3k GS is NOT enough for a healer to heal through the nova of Loken.
I healed a tank with 2.8k GS in HHoL, 3k GS is fine.
Most people play the game for the fun, to be subject to a score does not state how fun a player is to group with.
I see groups being thrown together then a Speed run through an Instance, no chatting, not a"thanx for the help, hope to see ya again".
Only Chatting i see is Grief, "you dont have the Gear score needed to run this"
Game = fun
WoW = not (anymore)
Obviously it is fun enough for many to still keep playing. In fact, fun enough for most to use GS .. if it is so bad, why are people using it?
Plus, if you are getting "you dont have the Gear score needed to run this" .. that means you are not going to teh right instances. It is easy to get up to an "accepted" GS to run anything (do H until you have close to 5k gs, then run some easy raids .. it is not rocket science). If you can't do that, you should spend a little time running lower tier content. With dungeon finder, there is no excuse no be able to do that.
Sure there is little chatting running through an instance. But people don't go to WOW just to chat. MSN is for chatting, WOW is for gaming. If you really want to just chat, strike up a conservation in DAL (i have done that many times) or join a chatty guild. There is no reason to chat when running through a dungeon.
Sure, it is no fun for you. You can certain play something else.
Interesting question. Why do so many people use Gear Score? Several reasons actually. One, it serves a legtimate purpose, in so far as it helps to assemble raids of strangers, and also gives people insight into what may be required.
Two(more these days than at the start) it allows people to determine how 733t they are, and thus ties in to too many peoples need to look down on others. One sees that in many, many walks of life, so games are no exception.
Yes, I can play something else, which is why I'm on vacation from WoW right now. I have four 80's and some 60's. Since I do not raid(I lack the extended focus these days that raiding requires) I ran random heroics until my 80's had T9 and good dungeon drops and called it good for awhile. I plan to go back a month or so before Cat launches, so I can get my rotations back.
3K GS is more then fine.. With the exception of the new WoTLK, most new 80's will be entering Heroics with about that, unless you're twinked..
Well, i remmber going into Hs when i just made 80 (with everyone else since that was the new content then) in some L200 epics and blues. That would be roughly a 3k GS.
Surely it can be done but it is not "enough" for good fast efficient runs. There are plenty of wipes on bosses like Loken. Remember people are not looking for a group that may be able to do H today .. they are looking for fast efficent runs and that means over-geared bosses.
YOu cannot guarantee no wipes and fast runs with GS of 3K.
You are trying bite off too much .. no wonder you got burned.
3K is too low for Heroics. It is a number game ... accept it or dont play. At 3K gearscore, no matter how skill you are, you are not going to do more dps like like 1.5-2k ..... or you wont heal enough, or you die too easily as a tank. I have no obligation to carry you through heroics. Sometimes i do carry DPS just because i am nice .. but once again, there is no obligation to do so.
You can always run normal dungeons and no one will kick you. Gear up and do the appropriate dungeon.
I am sick of this skill over gear fantasy. If you have 4k gearscore, you are just not going to do 8k dps in ICC, no matter how good you are. And you will drag down the raid.
4.9k is close enough to do ICC 10 though.
3k is fine for heroics (except for the ICC 5 mans).
It is not fine. It is possible for an extreme good player, or someone to be carried but certainly won't be an efficient run, particularly if it is the healer or the tank.
For example, 3k GS is NOT enough for a healer to heal through the nova of Loken.
I healed a tank with 2.8k GS in HHoL, 3k GS is fine.
And you heal throught Loken's NOVA for everyone? Not just the tank?
Either the other people are so over-geared that they killed Loken before he can do his NOVA .. and in this case, they carrry you ... or you are not being truthful. I don't think a 2.8k GS can output enough HPS to heal through that NOVA.
But i am being fair. If you have a armory link, i will run it through RAWR (and that is generous because RAWR often gives the best case instead of what people can do .. you need to be perfect to hit RAWR numbers) and see if it is enough HPS .. i will apologize if indeed 2.8K GS i enough to heal through that NOVA for the whole group.
3K GS is more then fine.. With the exception of the new WoTLK, most new 80's will be entering Heroics with about that, unless you're twinked..
Well, i remmber going into Hs when i just made 80 (with everyone else since that was the new content then) in some L200 epics and blues. That would be roughly a 3k GS.
Surely it can be done but it is not "enough" for good fast efficient runs. There are plenty of wipes on bosses like Loken. Remember people are not looking for a group that may be able to do H today .. they are looking for fast efficent runs and that means over-geared bosses.
YOu cannot guarantee no wipes and fast runs with GS of 3K.
There are no real guarantees in any event. Higher GS simply gives more lee way for mistakes. People who have no patience shouldn't be using the Dungeon Finder for PUG's in the first place. They should come in with their raider buddies, sweep through the instance in minutes and be done with it.
While Gearscore can be a good mod to base yourself on progression into the higher end raids i dont feel its the point of what the original poster had in mind in this thread. It is over abused and is relied on way to much for performance. Anyone can be ran through the instances and gave gear to boost their score and that doesnt mean they know how to play the instance or raid. With most of the people that are hardcore raiders usually being way overgeared for the instances they are in they do not take into consideration that some people just dont have the time to run as much as they do and my lag abit in the gear department. After all it is a game and the true meaning is having fun and helping others, last i checked that is the point MMOS.. the community. One or two hundred points on ur gearscore isnt gonna hurt the raid that much and since all these guilds go on bout getting members into raids seems to me that they would take the time to rotate their main raiding groups with a few that was lagging a lil bit behind to help them catch up. This doesnt mean to do the gearing up for them but to give them a lil push to help and actually make the game fun for all. It is a game and i know im probably gonna get mouth bout this but if ur so worried bout everyones gear and are an ass because u think that u are so much better than someone in this VIDEO game then u really need to step back and look at yourself and get a clue that once you log off that all the flaming u just did to a guy that wasnt up to par on ur expectations didnt make u a better person and actually hurts the game cause no one wants to play a game where they get nothing but mouth from the so called elitests cause they dont play as much as the other.
Applications for MMO guilds??? Sorry not that pathetic just yet
There are no real guarantees in any event. Higher GS simply gives more lee way for mistakes. People who have no patience shouldn't be using the Dungeon Finder for PUG's in the first place. They should come in with their raider buddies, sweep through the instance in minutes and be done with it.
Sure .. no guarantees .. but a higher GS not only gives more leeway, also gives a higher chance of an efficient run. Don't tell me there is no correlations.
Plus, people have no patience may not want to wait for their guild buddies to come online. I don't see why DF or PUG are not good subsitute as long as they can find people with good gear and good skills. You know, people don't just rage quit on bad GS, if you do something stupid and wipe them, they will quit/kick you too.
And there is no reason why people shouldn't try to sweep through instance in min in a PUG. That happens a lot, you know. In fact, MOST of my DF or PUG Heroics are pretty efficient given a high population of people with at least T9 gear.
While Gearscore can be a good mod to base yourself on progression into the higher end raids i dont feel its the point of what the original poster had in mind in this thread. It is over abused and is relied on way to much for performance. Anyone can be ran through the instances and gave gear to boost their score and that doesnt mean they know how to play the instance or raid. With most of the people that are hardcore raiders usually being way overgeared for the instances they are in they do not take into consideration that some people just dont have the time to run as much as they do and my lag abit in the gear department. After all it is a game and the true meaning is having fun and helping others, last i checked that is the point MMOS.. the community. One or two hundred points on ur gearscore isnt gonna hurt the raid that much and since all these guilds go on bout getting members into raids seems to me that they would take the time to rotate their main raiding groups with a few that was lagging a lil bit behind to help them catch up. This doesnt mean to do the gearing up for them but to give them a lil push to help and actually make the game fun for all. It is a game and i know im probably gonna get mouth bout this but if ur so worried bout everyones gear and are an ass because u think that u are so much better than someone in this VIDEO game then u really need to step back and look at yourself and get a clue that once you log off that all the flaming u just did to a guy that wasnt up to par on ur expectations didnt make u a better person and actually hurts the game cause no one wants to play a game where they get nothing but mouth from the so called elitests cause they dont play as much as the other.
1) We are not talking about 100 or 200 points here. NO one kick you because you are 100 point short. We are talking about 1000 or 2000 points here. People with 3k GS should not go to ICC, or even TOC. I don't think that is unfair.
2) No one only use GS to form raids. Usualy you are also required to demonstrate that you know the fight by either having the right achievement, or convince the raid leader that you have the right experience (like .. i do the fights in my main, and this is an alt). Skill is important. People do care if you know how to down a boss.
3) People do help others. I have no problem doing some runs for guildies and carry them. However, i am NOT obligated to do it for everyone and every time. If i want a quick run now because i don't have time, I am not obligated to carry someone who can't dps and does not know the fight.
If it wasn't gearscore, people would just be requiring you to link weapons and armor. It's what they do in EQ2, and people complain about it just like they do WoW's gearscore add-on.
I agree with the 3rd party addons ruining the game. Vanilla WoW was ok, all you needed was a raid UI addon and you were basically set, now there's tons of stuff that even give you an advantage. The macro'ing and the addons are overwhelming.
If it wasn't gearscore, people would just be requiring you to link weapons and armor. It's what they do in EQ2, and people complain about it just like they do WoW's gearscore add-on.
Wow raiders had to link weapons and items pre gearscore add-on. Necessity is the mother of invention. If Blizzard hadn't pushed the game to be a gearcentric epeen stroking fest, the add-on would never have come about.
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
You are trying bite off too much .. no wonder you got burned.
3K is too low for Heroics. It is a number game ... accept it or dont play. At 3K gearscore, no matter how skill you are, you are not going to do more dps like like 1.5-2k ..... or you wont heal enough, or you die too easily as a tank. I have no obligation to carry you through heroics. Sometimes i do carry DPS just because i am nice .. but once again, there is no obligation to do so.
You can always run normal dungeons and no one will kick you. Gear up and do the appropriate dungeon.
I am sick of this skill over gear fantasy. If you have 4k gearscore, you are just not going to do 8k dps in ICC, no matter how good you are. And you will drag down the raid.
4.9k is close enough to do ICC 10 though.
3k is fine for heroics (except for the ICC 5 mans).
It is not fine. It is possible for an extreme good player, or someone to be carried but certainly won't be an efficient run, particularly if it is the healer or the tank.
For example, 3k GS is NOT enough for a healer to heal through the nova of Loken.
I healed a tank with 2.8k GS in HHoL, 3k GS is fine.
And you heal throught Loken's NOVA for everyone? Not just the tank?
Either the other people are so over-geared that they killed Loken before he can do his NOVA .. and in this case, they carrry you ... or you are not being truthful. I don't think a 2.8k GS can output enough HPS to heal through that NOVA.
But i am being fair. If you have a armory link, i will run it through RAWR (and that is generous because RAWR often gives the best case instead of what people can do .. you need to be perfect to hit RAWR numbers) and see if it is enough HPS .. i will apologize if indeed 2.8K GS i enough to heal through that NOVA for the whole group.
2.5k was plenty for HHOL back in September when we quit playing. Has Loken gotten tougher since then?
If it wasn't gearscore, people would just be requiring you to link weapons and armor. It's what they do in EQ2, and people complain about it just like they do WoW's gearscore add-on.
Wow raiders had to link weapons and items pre gearscore add-on. Necessity is the mother of invention. If Blizzard hadn't pushed the game to be a gearcentric epeen stroking fest, the add-on would never have come about.
You are trying bite off too much .. no wonder you got burned.
3K is too low for Heroics. It is a number game ... accept it or dont play. At 3K gearscore, no matter how skill you are, you are not going to do more dps like like 1.5-2k ..... or you wont heal enough, or you die too easily as a tank. I have no obligation to carry you through heroics. Sometimes i do carry DPS just because i am nice .. but once again, there is no obligation to do so.
You can always run normal dungeons and no one will kick you. Gear up and do the appropriate dungeon.
I am sick of this skill over gear fantasy. If you have 4k gearscore, you are just not going to do 8k dps in ICC, no matter how good you are. And you will drag down the raid.
4.9k is close enough to do ICC 10 though.
3k is fine for heroics (except for the ICC 5 mans).
It is not fine. It is possible for an extreme good player, or someone to be carried but certainly won't be an efficient run, particularly if it is the healer or the tank.
For example, 3k GS is NOT enough for a healer to heal through the nova of Loken.
I healed a tank with 2.8k GS in HHoL, 3k GS is fine.
And you heal throught Loken's NOVA for everyone? Not just the tank?
Either the other people are so over-geared that they killed Loken before he can do his NOVA .. and in this case, they carrry you ... or you are not being truthful. I don't think a 2.8k GS can output enough HPS to heal through that NOVA.
But i am being fair. If you have a armory link, i will run it through RAWR (and that is generous because RAWR often gives the best case instead of what people can do .. you need to be perfect to hit RAWR numbers) and see if it is enough HPS .. i will apologize if indeed 2.8K GS i enough to heal through that NOVA for the whole group.
2.5k was plenty for HHOL back in September when we quit playing. Has Loken gotten tougher since then?
Any proof except "you say so"? which obviously i am not going to buy.
Once again, if you provide a wowarmory link, people can run it through RAWR to verify your numbers.
2.5k was plenty for HHOL back in September when we quit playing. Has Loken gotten tougher since then?
Any proof except "you say so"? which obviously i am not going to buy.
Once again, if you provide a wowarmory link, people can run it through RAWR to verify your numbers.
What other link are you looking for? I linked my GFs priest who has 2.5k GS, if I'm reading it right and she healed my warrior in HHOL. If you can find Murashu on Thrall you can check mine too and see we both have the HHOL achievements and my GS was probably lower than hers. When I search for myself on the armory it says I dont exist but it's been since September since I played.
Oops guess I was posting the wrong number, she has a score of 2123 according to WoW Heroes.
It's cute to blame Blizzard for bad game design when the problem existed prior to the release of WoW.
Ever tried to get into a raiding guild in Everquest? You had to have a 'Magelo' profile.
Guess what it showed? Your gear and your AA points (spec).
Gearscore is just a simplified formula for doing something that players have been doing in MMOs for a lot longer than Blizzard have even been in the market. It has nothing to do with Blizzard and nothing to do with WoW and everything to do with the way the MMO community views progression.
Oh and Eve uses 'skillpoints' to do much the same thing. That community isn't any more immune than the others.
Completely true. Don't blame the WoW devs for something that exists in almost every MMORPG. Gear score is entirely player created hince the reason it's an addon and not built into the core application. Not to say that this "problem" still isn't indeed a problem because I do think that it's more dominant in WoW than any other game but like I said before this gear score craze will most likely be wiped with Cataclysm.
While Gearscore can be a good mod to base yourself on progression into the higher end raids i dont feel its the point of what the original poster had in mind in this thread. It is over abused and is relied on way to much for performance. Anyone can be ran through the instances and gave gear to boost their score and that doesnt mean they know how to play the instance or raid. With most of the people that are hardcore raiders usually being way overgeared for the instances they are in they do not take into consideration that some people just dont have the time to run as much as they do and my lag abit in the gear department. After all it is a game and the true meaning is having fun and helping others, last i checked that is the point MMOS.. the community. One or two hundred points on ur gearscore isnt gonna hurt the raid that much and since all these guilds go on bout getting members into raids seems to me that they would take the time to rotate their main raiding groups with a few that was lagging a lil bit behind to help them catch up. This doesnt mean to do the gearing up for them but to give them a lil push to help and actually make the game fun for all. It is a game and i know im probably gonna get mouth bout this but if ur so worried bout everyones gear and are an ass because u think that u are so much better than someone in this VIDEO game then u really need to step back and look at yourself and get a clue that once you log off that all the flaming u just did to a guy that wasnt up to par on ur expectations didnt make u a better person and actually hurts the game cause no one wants to play a game where they get nothing but mouth from the so called elitests cause they dont play as much as the other.
1) We are not talking about 100 or 200 points here. NO one kick you because you are 100 point short. We are talking about 1000 or 2000 points here. People with 3k GS should not go to ICC, or even TOC. I don't think that is unfair.
2) No one only use GS to form raids. Usualy you are also required to demonstrate that you know the fight by either having the right achievement, or convince the raid leader that you have the right experience (like .. i do the fights in my main, and this is an alt). Skill is important. People do care if you know how to down a boss.
3) People do help others. I have no problem doing some runs for guildies and carry them. However, i am NOT obligated to do it for everyone and every time. If i want a quick run now because i don't have time, I am not obligated to carry someone who can't dps and does not know the fight.
If you don't have time, why are you doing the run? ^^ I've been in random heroics with raid geared types who want to kick people who just turned 80 in the last few days and are trying to gear up(I checked their armory). Needless to say that makes such raider types really popular... When we wouldn't kick the new 80, the raider type rage quit(in the middle of a fight no less). I flipped over to frost and managed to keep us all alive. The healer was damn good. I really wonder about people like that. Bottom line, GS can be useful, but more and more its being abused.
I have a couple of major issue with the current GearScore system:
A) Most PuGs want require a GearScore which requires your to geared well above the level of what actually drops on the raid. I've seen more than one Naxx10 PuG require 5500, seriously.
I can artifically inflate my GS several hundred points by mixing my gearsets (Healing/DPS/PvP) with minimal impact on my spec-score. I signed up for a PuG raid as a healing with near capped spell-hit and around 500 resiliance in order to hit absolute max GS to see if anyone would notice how f'ed up my gear actually was... noone did.
Except those 'other systems' have at the very least a minimum of interaction taking place.
It's not a 'less than or equal to' with no discussions maintained by an arbitrary third party (a damn add-on).
That is exactly right, and we're not saying NO to save WoW, because it is already a lost cause. We are saying NO to dissuade the next group of greedy suits who decide to emulate Blizzard and Cryptic, etc. We can prevent some of the future games from spewing this crap, but the sooner we start saying no, the better the results will be. So - Stand up, pull up your pants, and walk away. - MMO_Doubter
GS is not just about endgame, now we see rerolls using Heirlooms items, soon enough they will ask your GS score to run deadmine ! I'm serious i saw level 15 in full Heirloom items with the GS of over 1000 ! That's more than some 60 i saw !
I dunno if GS is killing this game or not, but i can say that it killed it for me. I have a life outside this game, i cant afford to play WOW 30 hours a week, run the same dungeon 25 times just to get a chance to get that next Epic.
Thats pathetic. Blizzard needs to burn in hell.
Nope. They are providing a service that millions and millions of people are actively paying for. They have achieved a potent mixture of achievement and random reward that links into human psychology rather well. Those who claim its an addiction are missing the point, and mis applying the definition.
Sorry to derail the thread but I have to respond to this. I am sure that ever alcoholic and druggy on the face of the earth would agree with you that people are missing the point or mis-applying the definiton. I have seen first hand that WoW and its endless gear grind is just as addictive as any drug. And if you do not believe that then you need to get passed your denial and move into the real world!
GS is not just about endgame, now we see rerolls using Heirlooms items, soon enough they will ask your GS score to run deadmine ! I'm serious i saw level 15 in full Heirloom items with the GS of over 1000 ! That's more than some 60 i saw !
I dunno if GS is killing this game or not, but i can say that it killed it for me. I have a life outside this game, i cant afford to play WOW 30 hours a week, run the same dungeon 25 times just to get a chance to get that next Epic.
Thats pathetic. Blizzard needs to burn in hell.
Nope. They are providing a service that millions and millions of people are actively paying for. They have achieved a potent mixture of achievement and random reward that links into human psychology rather well. Those who claim its an addiction are missing the point, and mis applying the definition.
Sorry to derail the thread but I have to respond to this. I am sure that ever alcoholic and druggy on the face of the earth would agree with you that people are missing the point or mis-applying the definiton. I have seen first hand that WoW and its endless gear grind is just as addictive as any drug. And if you do not believe that then you need to get passed your denial and move into the real world!
In the real world, I treat WoW and all other games I play as a hobby. They are entertainment. Those who have addictive personalities, could have problems with just about any reward based activity. But once again, you are mixing apples and chain saws, in your above. ^^
Comments
Agreed.. kinda hard to have fun even with lil things like people crying "NINJA".. "Billy Bob ninja'd my Dalaran mustard.. you beastard".. "OMFG, get off my mushroom you noob".. or "Go fish your own node, f*cktard".. I think you get the idea.. And that was just crafting drama.. OH.. lets not talk about all the drama with mineral nodes.. Uh huh..
Excellent game design and community..
I'm starting to feel warm and fuzzy again.. NOT..
It is not fine. It is possible for an extreme good player, or someone to be carried but certainly won't be an efficient run, particularly if it is the healer or the tank.
For example, 3k GS is NOT enough for a healer to heal through the nova of Loken.
Obviously it is fun enough for many to still keep playing. In fact, fun enough for most to use GS .. if it is so bad, why are people using it?
Plus, if you are getting "you dont have the Gear score needed to run this" .. that means you are not going to teh right instances. It is easy to get up to an "accepted" GS to run anything (do H until you have close to 5k gs, then run some easy raids .. it is not rocket science). If you can't do that, you should spend a little time running lower tier content. With dungeon finder, there is no excuse no be able to do that.
Sure there is little chatting running through an instance. But people don't go to WOW just to chat. MSN is for chatting, WOW is for gaming. If you really want to just chat, strike up a conservation in DAL (i have done that many times) or join a chatty guild. There is no reason to chat when running through a dungeon.
Sure, it is no fun for you. You can certain play something else.
I healed a tank with 2.8k GS in HHoL, 3k GS is fine.
Interesting question. Why do so many people use Gear Score? Several reasons actually. One, it serves a legtimate purpose, in so far as it helps to assemble raids of strangers, and also gives people insight into what may be required.
Two(more these days than at the start) it allows people to determine how 733t they are, and thus ties in to too many peoples need to look down on others. One sees that in many, many walks of life, so games are no exception.
Yes, I can play something else, which is why I'm on vacation from WoW right now. I have four 80's and some 60's. Since I do not raid(I lack the extended focus these days that raiding requires) I ran random heroics until my 80's had T9 and good dungeon drops and called it good for awhile. I plan to go back a month or so before Cat launches, so I can get my rotations back.
3K GS is more then fine.. With the exception of the new WoTLK, most new 80's will be entering Heroics with about that, unless you're twinked..
Well, i remmber going into Hs when i just made 80 (with everyone else since that was the new content then) in some L200 epics and blues. That would be roughly a 3k GS.
Surely it can be done but it is not "enough" for good fast efficient runs. There are plenty of wipes on bosses like Loken. Remember people are not looking for a group that may be able to do H today .. they are looking for fast efficent runs and that means over-geared bosses.
YOu cannot guarantee no wipes and fast runs with GS of 3K.
And you heal throught Loken's NOVA for everyone? Not just the tank?
Either the other people are so over-geared that they killed Loken before he can do his NOVA .. and in this case, they carrry you ... or you are not being truthful. I don't think a 2.8k GS can output enough HPS to heal through that NOVA.
But i am being fair. If you have a armory link, i will run it through RAWR (and that is generous because RAWR often gives the best case instead of what people can do .. you need to be perfect to hit RAWR numbers) and see if it is enough HPS .. i will apologize if indeed 2.8K GS i enough to heal through that NOVA for the whole group.
There are no real guarantees in any event. Higher GS simply gives more lee way for mistakes. People who have no patience shouldn't be using the Dungeon Finder for PUG's in the first place. They should come in with their raider buddies, sweep through the instance in minutes and be done with it.
While Gearscore can be a good mod to base yourself on progression into the higher end raids i dont feel its the point of what the original poster had in mind in this thread. It is over abused and is relied on way to much for performance. Anyone can be ran through the instances and gave gear to boost their score and that doesnt mean they know how to play the instance or raid. With most of the people that are hardcore raiders usually being way overgeared for the instances they are in they do not take into consideration that some people just dont have the time to run as much as they do and my lag abit in the gear department. After all it is a game and the true meaning is having fun and helping others, last i checked that is the point MMOS.. the community. One or two hundred points on ur gearscore isnt gonna hurt the raid that much and since all these guilds go on bout getting members into raids seems to me that they would take the time to rotate their main raiding groups with a few that was lagging a lil bit behind to help them catch up. This doesnt mean to do the gearing up for them but to give them a lil push to help and actually make the game fun for all. It is a game and i know im probably gonna get mouth bout this but if ur so worried bout everyones gear and are an ass because u think that u are so much better than someone in this VIDEO game then u really need to step back and look at yourself and get a clue that once you log off that all the flaming u just did to a guy that wasnt up to par on ur expectations didnt make u a better person and actually hurts the game cause no one wants to play a game where they get nothing but mouth from the so called elitests cause they dont play as much as the other.
Applications for MMO guilds??? Sorry not that pathetic just yet
Sure .. no guarantees .. but a higher GS not only gives more leeway, also gives a higher chance of an efficient run. Don't tell me there is no correlations.
Plus, people have no patience may not want to wait for their guild buddies to come online. I don't see why DF or PUG are not good subsitute as long as they can find people with good gear and good skills. You know, people don't just rage quit on bad GS, if you do something stupid and wipe them, they will quit/kick you too.
And there is no reason why people shouldn't try to sweep through instance in min in a PUG. That happens a lot, you know. In fact, MOST of my DF or PUG Heroics are pretty efficient given a high population of people with at least T9 gear.
1) We are not talking about 100 or 200 points here. NO one kick you because you are 100 point short. We are talking about 1000 or 2000 points here. People with 3k GS should not go to ICC, or even TOC. I don't think that is unfair.
2) No one only use GS to form raids. Usualy you are also required to demonstrate that you know the fight by either having the right achievement, or convince the raid leader that you have the right experience (like .. i do the fights in my main, and this is an alt). Skill is important. People do care if you know how to down a boss.
3) People do help others. I have no problem doing some runs for guildies and carry them. However, i am NOT obligated to do it for everyone and every time. If i want a quick run now because i don't have time, I am not obligated to carry someone who can't dps and does not know the fight.
If it wasn't gearscore, people would just be requiring you to link weapons and armor. It's what they do in EQ2, and people complain about it just like they do WoW's gearscore add-on.
I agree with the 3rd party addons ruining the game. Vanilla WoW was ok, all you needed was a raid UI addon and you were basically set, now there's tons of stuff that even give you an advantage. The macro'ing and the addons are overwhelming.
Wow raiders had to link weapons and items pre gearscore add-on. Necessity is the mother of invention. If Blizzard hadn't pushed the game to be a gearcentric epeen stroking fest, the add-on would never have come about.
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
2.5k was plenty for HHOL back in September when we quit playing. Has Loken gotten tougher since then?
That style of gameplay didn't originate with WoW.
Any proof except "you say so"? which obviously i am not going to buy.
Once again, if you provide a wowarmory link, people can run it through RAWR to verify your numbers.
What other link are you looking for? I linked my GFs priest who has 2.5k GS, if I'm reading it right and she healed my warrior in HHOL. If you can find Murashu on Thrall you can check mine too and see we both have the HHOL achievements and my GS was probably lower than hers. When I search for myself on the armory it says I dont exist but it's been since September since I played.
Oops guess I was posting the wrong number, she has a score of 2123 according to WoW Heroes.
Completely true. Don't blame the WoW devs for something that exists in almost every MMORPG. Gear score is entirely player created hince the reason it's an addon and not built into the core application. Not to say that this "problem" still isn't indeed a problem because I do think that it's more dominant in WoW than any other game but like I said before this gear score craze will most likely be wiped with Cataclysm.
If you don't have time, why are you doing the run? ^^ I've been in random heroics with raid geared types who want to kick people who just turned 80 in the last few days and are trying to gear up(I checked their armory). Needless to say that makes such raider types really popular... When we wouldn't kick the new 80, the raider type rage quit(in the middle of a fight no less). I flipped over to frost and managed to keep us all alive. The healer was damn good. I really wonder about people like that. Bottom line, GS can be useful, but more and more its being abused.
I have a couple of major issue with the current GearScore system:
A) Most PuGs want require a GearScore which requires your to geared well above the level of what actually drops on the raid. I've seen more than one Naxx10 PuG require 5500, seriously.
Active: WoW
Semi-retired: STO
Fully retired: UO, EQ, AC, SWG, FFXI, DDO:EU, PoTBS, AoC, EvE
Tried: EQ2, Tabula Rasa, Auto-Assault, Isteria, LotRO, Wizard 101
Looking forward to: Star Citizen
Except those 'other systems' have at the very least a minimum of interaction taking place.
It's not a 'less than or equal to' with no discussions maintained by an arbitrary third party (a damn add-on).
That is exactly right, and we're not saying NO to save WoW, because it is already a lost cause. We are saying NO to dissuade the next group of greedy suits who decide to emulate Blizzard and Cryptic, etc.
We can prevent some of the future games from spewing this crap, but the sooner we start saying no, the better the results will be.
So - Stand up, pull up your pants, and walk away.
- MMO_Doubter
Sorry to derail the thread but I have to respond to this. I am sure that ever alcoholic and druggy on the face of the earth would agree with you that people are missing the point or mis-applying the definiton. I have seen first hand that WoW and its endless gear grind is just as addictive as any drug. And if you do not believe that then you need to get passed your denial and move into the real world!
In the real world, I treat WoW and all other games I play as a hobby. They are entertainment. Those who have addictive personalities, could have problems with just about any reward based activity. But once again, you are mixing apples and chain saws, in your above. ^^