I am going to promise you now that the WoW player is immediately going to feel more comfortable and more at home than the guildwars player will.
And i will say the gw player will be.
Your example bout the skill chains isnt in wow either so dunno what that makes a wow player feel right at home.
Tell a WoW player that he can only have 10 skills, im sure he will love to lose the other 40
while the gw player gain 2
can go on for quite a bit but i played both wow and gw for a long time and im sure the gw player will see more gw in gw 2 then a wow player will see wow in gw2
Everything Anet written about gw2 isnt found in any mmo yet so just because gw2 has a persistant world it makes the wow player feel more at home then a gw player? no way
If you are building a sequel you should take what was good and great from the first game and build and expand upon it. You can say they are taking elements of traditional MMOs or RPGs or however you want to look at. But what made Guildwars great was that it wasnt traditional and it did its own thing. Bottomn line is developers are afraid to innovate any more. But thats a topic for another post.
Objection. How can something build on the original and innovate at the same time when all the original was known for was innovation. You seem to miss a fundamental difference between gw and WoW that prevents gw2 from ever playing or feeling like wow. That is the skill > time philosophy. Guild wars 2 will NEVER be about grind. Grind is wow's most notable feature. If you level up in gw2 you cannot power through lower level areas. Gear will NEVER be all that important in gw2. They mentioned this so many times.
I end with this. If what a game is mostly known for is innovation. Would you not expect the sequel to be as innovative to the genre as the first one? If the game merely improved upon the first one and barely innovated at all would you really call it the spirtual successor of the first one or merely a gw clone. This has been argued time and time again and the person who starts these threads always loses by common concession. This has been done to death let it go.
[Mod Edit]
Originally posted by Draanimrev
Well as others have hinted at and to summarize my own OP, Let us consider a scenario. Lets say you have one player that has never played any MMO except WoW. And then on the other side you have one player that has never played any MMO except guildwars. You take them both and let them have a go at guildwars 2. I am going to promise you now that the WoW player is immediately going to feel more comfortable and more at home than the guildwars player will.
Retarded. There's quests over the head in gw2 all events something new to BOTH games. The personal story is basically missions in gw1. Levels don't matter as you scale down anyway. Even more limited skill set than the original, if you hadn't noticed wow plaers didn't like that about the original. Balanced classes for structured pvp. Something Wow never had and again no benefits for grinding the same dungeon. Again I smell your bullshit due to lack of reading comprehension
Sorry dude, in the business world that's called "branding". They have a well known intellectual property and you build upon it's foundation. In the end they may be tricking people in some way (I doubt it, but I'll concede the point for sake of argument), but it doesn't seem like you are arguing out of good faith either. It's very likely someone calling themselves MMO_Doubter may be someone who tends to be contrary for it's own sake when discussing MMOs.
I think it shows something about you that you think doubt is a bad thing. After the repeated sloppy releases in recent years, doubt seems entirely reasonable and justified.
Also - I'm not trying to trick anyone out of their money.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Sorry dude, in the business world that's called "branding". They have a well known intellectual property and you build upon it's foundation. In the end they may be tricking people in some way (I doubt it, but I'll concede the point for sake of argument), but it doesn't seem like you are arguing out of good faith either. It's very likely someone calling themselves MMO_Doubter may be someone who tends to be contrary for it's own sake when discussing MMOs.
I think it shows something about you that you think doubt is a bad thing. After the repeated sloppy releases in recent years, doubt seems entirely reasonable and justified.
Also - I'm not trying to trick anyone out of their money.
Trick people out of their money? Seriously the buy to play game that only recently broke even is trying to people out of their money? Check the freaking NcSoft reports. A-nets never screwed people out of their money intensionally it's the reason why they have only recently broke even. Come on dude there's doubt then there's just pure ignorance. Clearly you don't understand the difference and lack understanding of business in general.
Sorry dude, in the business world that's called "branding". They have a well known intellectual property and you build upon it's foundation. In the end they may be tricking people in some way (I doubt it, but I'll concede the point for sake of argument), but it doesn't seem like you are arguing out of good faith either. It's very likely someone calling themselves MMO_Doubter may be someone who tends to be contrary for it's own sake when discussing MMOs.
I think it shows something about you that you think doubt is a bad thing. After the repeated sloppy releases in recent years, doubt seems entirely reasonable and justified.
Also - I'm not trying to trick anyone out of their money.
Doubt and skepticism is fine. You are claiming malfeasance on the part of Arenanet. That's not doubt.
Doubt and skepticism is fine. You are claiming malfeasance on the part of Arenanet. That's not doubt.
Your words: "In the end they may be tricking people in some way (I doubt it, but I'll concede the point for sake of argument)"
You originally criticised my for my user name. Not only is that irrelevant, but it's not at all original.
That's your counter-arguement? Rather than countering his actual point you merely assumed he was talking about your using name when I'm pretty would have said those things regardless. Really you should at least of countered his point rather than ignoring it compleetly when it was a valid point.
Anyway your clearly in the wrong his your not "doubting" your plaguraising there's a clear differenec.
"If you are making a significantly different game, you don't give it the same name - unless you are trying to trick players of the first game."
"Also - I'm not trying to trick anyone out of their money."
That is not doubt that is clearly stating that the company is trying trick or misform their customers without any evidence apart from an assumption. If you said "might" then you could be considered to just being sketical but that's not what your doing. What your doing is not doubt the quicker you learn this th better.
You can't win this arguement if there's proof of you saying these things in previous posts.
Whoa, some people here are taking all their assumptions too far. OP- You contradict yourself more than once, yet you want to make a point in this thread? A-Net may have taken some things from WoW (mainly the dungeon loot "currency" so you don't have to farm a dungeon for 6 months to get that helmet) but that's not a bad thing, trust me. If they took 3 things from WoW for example, it doesn't make the game like WoW.
Taking away the 2nd profession isn't a bad thing either, at least we won't have to worry about the stupid, over-powered builds anymore. Good riddance. You said you played a Ranger without bow skills....let me guess, you played a touch ranger (IE: over-powered build). Sorry to say it, but by taking the 2nd class out it'll be easier for them to balance both PvE and PvP for a more enjoyable game.
On the topic of leveling, to say that "reaching max level will take a long time which will make the fact that character are so restrictive even more frustrating" DOES NOT have any truth in it at all since we don't know what the cap will be or how long it'll take to hit.
Loot- Again, no one knows anything about it yet, how much of a difference it'll make, or how easy it'll be to get. Again, you're assuming blindly.
Now PvP, smaller scale is better in my opinion and am happy with the 5v5 in the competitive outlets. There WILL be larger scale in the Mists, and possibly larger scale in the other, instanced type, non-competitve outlets.
It almost sounds as if you don't want to like this game because it's not an exact clone of GW1. Developers innovate, they often times take aspects that worked from other games and bring them in as well. Please don't assume the game will only cater to the WoW crowd, that's one of the reasons forums can be such a bad place for information...or mis-information in this case.
If they wanted to make a clone of the game they would make an expension or something...like they did in the past. Might there be a reason they actually call it Guild Wars 2 this time? Might it be because it is NOT guild wars 1, but actually Guild Wars 2? It is a whole different game. The features it has sound interesting and it might become a good game with again is a one of it kind just like GW1 was.
If you are making a significantly different game, you don't give it the same name - unless you are trying to trick players of the first game.
It's called Guild Wars "2" because it continues the story on from Guild Wars one....ever thought of that?
It's called a "sequel" you know? Like in movies, Iron Man and theres....:O Iron Man 2!
You can't win this arguement if there's proof of you saying these things in previous posts.
Think before you post.
I always do.
I haven't backed down from anything that I have written.
The new game is substancially different from Guild Wars. From what I have read - it has more aspects that have been changed than those which have stayed the same. That says a new game to me.
Why did they not give it a new name?
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
If they wanted to make a clone of the game they would make an expension or something...like they did in the past. Might there be a reason they actually call it Guild Wars 2 this time? Might it be because it is NOT guild wars 1, but actually Guild Wars 2? It is a whole different game. The features it has sound interesting and it might become a good game with again is a one of it kind just like GW1 was.
If you are making a significantly different game, you don't give it the same name - unless you are trying to trick players of the first game.
It's called Guild Wars "2" because it continues the story on from Guild Wars one....ever thought of that?
It's called a "sequel" you know? Like in movies, Iron Man and theres....:O Iron Man 2!
I've never really been a player that has wanted a mount, in every MMO I've ever played I've seen them as a waste of in-game coin/time and effort to gain, having a mount enables you to get to a place faster but I really don't want to speed around a game world that took years to create.
I've never really been a player that has wanted a mount, in every MMO I've ever played I've seen them as a waste of in-game coin/time and effort to gain, having a mount enables you to get to a place faster but I really don't want to speed around a game world that took years to create.
But I realise I'm in a minority.
You could always choose not to buy one. Them being absent from the game means there is no choice.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
No one knows that there won't be mounts until they specifically state it, which I haven't read yet. Could be wrong though.
@MMODoubter- You sound like you don't like this game, and it's not even released yet. If that's the case, no one here is telling you that you HAVE to play it, just saying.
You can't win this arguement if there's proof of you saying these things in previous posts.
Think before you post.
I always do.
I haven't backed down from anything that I have written.
The new game is substancially different from Guild Wars. From what I have read - it has more aspects that have been changed than those which have stayed the same. That says a new game to me.
Why did they not give it a new name?
I sorry but the begining of your post makes you come off as a ignorant and stuborn. Noone always wins and arguement the fact that you believe you have means that you refuse to learn which means you continue to believe your misconceptions even when noone else does and it stops people from taking your arguemnts seriously. Losng an arguement is a good thing anyone that believes they have never lost an arguement is a fool.
On the second part of you post have you ever heard of something called a spirtual successor? It's when a game has the themes and ideas of original making it feel like a very similar game despite not having the same features. You can have games with the exact same features as the first but does not feel at all like when the person played the original because although the features where the same the themes or purposes were different.
It's the same when a game plays too similar to the original because what made the original so special was how fresh and different it felt compared to other games because the original was already created the sequel feels less fresh and just seems like more of the same. It's like comparing Bioshock 1 to 2. In general they were very similar games but the first was recieved better than the second. Why? Because the second didn't feel as fresh as the first when it came out. It added new things but none of them had them same purpose or feeling as the first. It didn't follow the firsts core themes just a lot of it's features.
A-net is trying to produce a spirtual succesor. They are trying to prduce a game based on the themes and ideas that drove the original while adding plenty of new features to make it produce the same fresh feeling as when the person played the first. Making a far similar game than merely using the features ever would.
Originally posted by Kyelthis
No one knows that there won't be mounts until they specifically state it, which I haven't read yet. Could be wrong though.
In fact it's pretty hinted there will be mounts not certain but their are certain hints. The mention of horses and the fact those creatures didn't even exist in gw1. The mention of the choice of riding in the day instaed of sneaking at night. Also the fact that mounts were originally supposed to be in the gw1 campaign that got scrapped in favour of gw2.
These things are far meaning it is certain but it does seem likely their will be in some shape or form considering there is already mention of an Asura battlesuit which is essentially a battle mount.
I sorry but the begining of your post makes you come off as a ignorant and stuborn. Noone always wins and arguement the fact that you believe you have means that you refuse to learn which means you continue to believe your misconceptions even when noone else does and it stops people from taking your arguemnts seriously. Losng an arguement is a good thing anyone that believes they have never lost an arguement is a fool.
I was answering the "Think before you post." remark. I don't care about 'winning' an argument.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
I sorry but the begining of your post makes you come off as a ignorant and stuborn. Noone always wins and arguement the fact that you believe you have means that you refuse to learn which means you continue to believe your misconceptions even when noone else does and it stops people from taking your arguemnts seriously. Losng an arguement is a good thing anyone that believes they have never lost an arguement is a fool.
I was answering the "Think before you post." remark. I don't care about 'winning' an argument.
The point remains the "I haven't backed down from anything that I have written." is essentially the same thing.
No one knows that there won't be mounts until they specifically state it, which I haven't read yet. Could be wrong though.
@MMODoubter- You sound like you don't like this game, and it's not even released yet. If that's the case, no one here is telling you that you HAVE to play it, just saying.
I haven't decided yet. Some of what I have heard is good. Some of it is bad.
Not having mounts would be a negative.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
A little tip: don't try to discuss with MMO-Doubter. He does his thing all over the site and (even though I agree once in a blue moon with one or two points he makes) rarely are there ever any useful discussions coming out of it. So just ignore it and save yourself the trouble.
A little tip: don't try to discuss with MMO-Doubter. He does his thing all over the site and (even though I agree once in a blue moon with one or two points he makes) rarely are there ever any useful discussions coming out of it. So just ignore it and save yourself the trouble.
<smiles>
People like MMO-doubter think they know it all, that they are an expert at game developing, just because they think they know what games and feautures in MMORPG's they like themselves and so if they like them offcourse everyone else must like them too.
Discussions with that kind of people allways end the same way.... As they are not open for other people's opinions. So i think your advise shows great wisdom.
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
GW2 is based on the GW world, not as much the game mechanics. They're doing with GW2 what they were unable to do with their lower-budget limitations in GW.
Keeping the lore, and changing things for the better, in my opinion.
No one knows that there won't be mounts until they specifically state it, which I haven't read yet. Could be wrong though.
@MMODoubter- You sound like you don't like this game, and it's not even released yet. If that's the case, no one here is telling you that you HAVE to play it, just saying.
I haven't decided yet. Some of what I have heard is good. Some of it is bad.
Not having mounts would be a negative.
I understand why some players would see having no mounts in an MMO could be bad, as it's become a staple in the genre, but if a game is created around not having them, one would think it could work out well enough. Personally I haven't read anything on the game I didn't like yet, but it's all relative to who's reading it and what they might want in the game.
We as the community all pretty much knew that GW2 wasn't going to be a clone of the first one with updated graphics. Sequels that try and ONLY update and copy from the first title, without innovating, usually fail. The one thing, and I mean THE ONLY THING I'm still worried about is the combat movement in this game. I'm hoping they do away with the auto-following your enemy once in combat thing. It should be that if you want to stick to your target in melee, you have to actively follow them with your movement keys the entire time.
Comments
And i will say the gw player will be.
Your example bout the skill chains isnt in wow either so dunno what that makes a wow player feel right at home.
Tell a WoW player that he can only have 10 skills, im sure he will love to lose the other 40
while the gw player gain 2
can go on for quite a bit but i played both wow and gw for a long time and im sure the gw player will see more gw in gw 2 then a wow player will see wow in gw2
Everything Anet written about gw2 isnt found in any mmo yet so just because gw2 has a persistant world it makes the wow player feel more at home then a gw player? no way
I think it shows something about you that you think doubt is a bad thing. After the repeated sloppy releases in recent years, doubt seems entirely reasonable and justified.
Also - I'm not trying to trick anyone out of their money.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Trick people out of their money? Seriously the buy to play game that only recently broke even is trying to people out of their money? Check the freaking NcSoft reports. A-nets never screwed people out of their money intensionally it's the reason why they have only recently broke even. Come on dude there's doubt then there's just pure ignorance. Clearly you don't understand the difference and lack understanding of business in general.
Seems the OP wants more of Guild Wars 1.5 than Guild Wars 2.0.
Doubt and skepticism is fine. You are claiming malfeasance on the part of Arenanet. That's not doubt.
Your words: "In the end they may be tricking people in some way (I doubt it, but I'll concede the point for sake of argument)"
You originally criticised my for my user name. Not only is that irrelevant, but it's not at all original.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
That's your counter-arguement? Rather than countering his actual point you merely assumed he was talking about your using name when I'm pretty would have said those things regardless. Really you should at least of countered his point rather than ignoring it compleetly when it was a valid point.
Anyway your clearly in the wrong his your not "doubting" your plaguraising there's a clear differenec.
"If you are making a significantly different game, you don't give it the same name - unless you are trying to trick players of the first game."
"Also - I'm not trying to trick anyone out of their money."
That is not doubt that is clearly stating that the company is trying trick or misform their customers without any evidence apart from an assumption. If you said "might" then you could be considered to just being sketical but that's not what your doing. What your doing is not doubt the quicker you learn this th better.
You can't win this arguement if there's proof of you saying these things in previous posts.
Think before you post.
Sorry bro...It just seems like you want to see WoW in GW2...
I think I actually spent way more time reading and theorycrafting about MMOs than playing them
Whoa, some people here are taking all their assumptions too far. OP- You contradict yourself more than once, yet you want to make a point in this thread? A-Net may have taken some things from WoW (mainly the dungeon loot "currency" so you don't have to farm a dungeon for 6 months to get that helmet) but that's not a bad thing, trust me. If they took 3 things from WoW for example, it doesn't make the game like WoW.
Taking away the 2nd profession isn't a bad thing either, at least we won't have to worry about the stupid, over-powered builds anymore. Good riddance. You said you played a Ranger without bow skills....let me guess, you played a touch ranger (IE: over-powered build). Sorry to say it, but by taking the 2nd class out it'll be easier for them to balance both PvE and PvP for a more enjoyable game.
On the topic of leveling, to say that "reaching max level will take a long time which will make the fact that character are so restrictive even more frustrating" DOES NOT have any truth in it at all since we don't know what the cap will be or how long it'll take to hit.
Loot- Again, no one knows anything about it yet, how much of a difference it'll make, or how easy it'll be to get. Again, you're assuming blindly.
Now PvP, smaller scale is better in my opinion and am happy with the 5v5 in the competitive outlets. There WILL be larger scale in the Mists, and possibly larger scale in the other, instanced type, non-competitve outlets.
It almost sounds as if you don't want to like this game because it's not an exact clone of GW1. Developers innovate, they often times take aspects that worked from other games and bring them in as well. Please don't assume the game will only cater to the WoW crowd, that's one of the reasons forums can be such a bad place for information...or mis-information in this case.
It's called Guild Wars "2" because it continues the story on from Guild Wars one....ever thought of that?
It's called a "sequel" you know? Like in movies, Iron Man and theres....:O Iron Man 2!
I always do.
I haven't backed down from anything that I have written.
The new game is substancially different from Guild Wars. From what I have read - it has more aspects that have been changed than those which have stayed the same. That says a new game to me.
Why did they not give it a new name?
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Buh-Zing!!!
I've never really been a player that has wanted a mount, in every MMO I've ever played I've seen them as a waste of in-game coin/time and effort to gain, having a mount enables you to get to a place faster but I really don't want to speed around a game world that took years to create.
But I realise I'm in a minority.
You could always choose not to buy one. Them being absent from the game means there is no choice.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
No one knows that there won't be mounts until they specifically state it, which I haven't read yet. Could be wrong though.
@MMODoubter- You sound like you don't like this game, and it's not even released yet. If that's the case, no one here is telling you that you HAVE to play it, just saying.
I sorry but the begining of your post makes you come off as a ignorant and stuborn. Noone always wins and arguement the fact that you believe you have means that you refuse to learn which means you continue to believe your misconceptions even when noone else does and it stops people from taking your arguemnts seriously. Losng an arguement is a good thing anyone that believes they have never lost an arguement is a fool.
On the second part of you post have you ever heard of something called a spirtual successor? It's when a game has the themes and ideas of original making it feel like a very similar game despite not having the same features. You can have games with the exact same features as the first but does not feel at all like when the person played the original because although the features where the same the themes or purposes were different.
It's the same when a game plays too similar to the original because what made the original so special was how fresh and different it felt compared to other games because the original was already created the sequel feels less fresh and just seems like more of the same. It's like comparing Bioshock 1 to 2. In general they were very similar games but the first was recieved better than the second. Why? Because the second didn't feel as fresh as the first when it came out. It added new things but none of them had them same purpose or feeling as the first. It didn't follow the firsts core themes just a lot of it's features.
A-net is trying to produce a spirtual succesor. They are trying to prduce a game based on the themes and ideas that drove the original while adding plenty of new features to make it produce the same fresh feeling as when the person played the first. Making a far similar game than merely using the features ever would.
In fact it's pretty hinted there will be mounts not certain but their are certain hints. The mention of horses and the fact those creatures didn't even exist in gw1. The mention of the choice of riding in the day instaed of sneaking at night. Also the fact that mounts were originally supposed to be in the gw1 campaign that got scrapped in favour of gw2.
These things are far meaning it is certain but it does seem likely their will be in some shape or form considering there is already mention of an Asura battlesuit which is essentially a battle mount.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
The point remains the "I haven't backed down from anything that I have written." is essentially the same thing.
I haven't decided yet. Some of what I have heard is good. Some of it is bad.
Not having mounts would be a negative.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
A little tip: don't try to discuss with MMO-Doubter. He does his thing all over the site and (even though I agree once in a blue moon with one or two points he makes) rarely are there ever any useful discussions coming out of it. So just ignore it and save yourself the trouble.
My Signature
Not even close.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
<smiles>
People like MMO-doubter think they know it all, that they are an expert at game developing, just because they think they know what games and feautures in MMORPG's they like themselves and so if they like them offcourse everyone else must like them too.
Discussions with that kind of people allways end the same way.... As they are not open for other people's opinions. So i think your advise shows great wisdom.
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
GW2 is based on the GW world, not as much the game mechanics. They're doing with GW2 what they were unable to do with their lower-budget limitations in GW.
Keeping the lore, and changing things for the better, in my opinion.
I understand why some players would see having no mounts in an MMO could be bad, as it's become a staple in the genre, but if a game is created around not having them, one would think it could work out well enough. Personally I haven't read anything on the game I didn't like yet, but it's all relative to who's reading it and what they might want in the game.
We as the community all pretty much knew that GW2 wasn't going to be a clone of the first one with updated graphics. Sequels that try and ONLY update and copy from the first title, without innovating, usually fail. The one thing, and I mean THE ONLY THING I'm still worried about is the combat movement in this game. I'm hoping they do away with the auto-following your enemy once in combat thing. It should be that if you want to stick to your target in melee, you have to actively follow them with your movement keys the entire time.