The main reason SWG:ToR will fail in the long run.

Darth_Osor · June 2010

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter
"A space Experience will be in game, its still being worked on - Machinima"

It's unbelievable that anyone would take that as anything other than a manipulative dev-speak dodge. "Space Experience"? What is wrong with you?

TBH I have to agree with you on this one. The lame KotOR turret minigame could accurately be called a "space experience".

Ryukan · June 2010

Originally posted by greed0104
Those of you saying ToR is a SPRPG.

There is nothing wrong with bringing SPRPG content quality into an mmo, this doesn't mean this is an MMO to SPRG conversion. I'm not sure what you're basing this on. If what they say below is true, this game will not be a SP game.

Quote :"There is exploration, there is combat, it is a wide-open world" - MMOGamer - Blaine Christine

Quote: "Going to have crafting and harvesting, going to have guilds and social activities" - MMOGamer - Blaine Christine

Quote:" “Hey, if I’m really into more the crafting, harvesting, auction house type of gameplay, are you going to support that?” "Absolutely" - MMOGamer - Blaine Christine

Quote from James Olhen: "Our public areas are one contiguous world", "Not just our cities - 90% of the game, actually, will be areas where you can run into other players" - PC Gamer UK April 2010

Quote from James Olhen: "Its not going to feel like a heavily instanced game" - PC Gamer UK April 2010

A space Experience will be in game, its still being worked on - Machinima

Quote :"There is exploration, there is combat, it is a wide-open world" - MMOGamer - Blaine Christine

Quote: We are going to have crafting, because that's a big part of MMOs. We're going to implement crafting in a way that 'feels' right for Star Wars. - Massively TOR 2008

Quote: We’ve spent quite a bit of time discussing how to ensure that crafters – true dedicated crafters – can make a name for themselves and be important in their community. - Dev Blog Damion Schubert

PvP is in TOR - Multiple Interviews

Quote from James Olhen: "We're going to have open world PvP, As for the more structured PvP, I can't going into details but we will have it" - PC Gamer UK April 2010

Small amount of PvP action shown between 3 players during Dev. Video (4.00) - Designing the Darkside

Quote: "We're looking at classic [endgame] systems, but we're also doing something brand new that hasn't been done in an MMO before - CVG March 2010

End Game Content like Raiding is available if players do not want to re roll- MMOGamer

Quote: The general gist is that we want to reward grouping, but not so much that grouping is the only way to play the game - XP Damion Schubert

Quote from Daniel Erickson: Subject Solo'ing: "There will be content you never see, but you can play from first level to last level solo." - G4TV GDC 2010

PvP content, PvE content, Crafting, Professions, group content solo players will never see, huge wide open world(s). Sounding like an MMO to me.

Great post and good collection of related quotes and statements. It is a bit silly to see so much ballyhooing over the misguided impresssions that it is going to be a single player game with MMO-like qualities, before we even have that much info to go on. It is just that most of the info released centers on things like the personal story-line and the companions and we have not seen much more concrete info. I don't believe that Bioware is stupid or presumptuous enough to release an MMO that isn't as MMO as pretty much any other MMO out there. I also don't think that the personal storyline element is going to be anything like AoC's nighttime destiny quests in Tortage, which was SPECIFICALLY single player and you had no choice in going it alone, I would wager the personal storylines will allow you to group for it/bring friends, but then again we need more info on the specifics of it before making all this craptastic conjecture and overly opinionated guesses about it all.

People can naysay, pronounce doom, talk a buncha hypothetical crap about the game...but in the end if it does well they are all going to look really stupid.

Sovrath · June 2010

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by Sovrath

But as we both have said, you look at SWToR and see their stamp all over it.

Yup, because the story and voice acting is all we have been shown and we haven't been told what the business model is yet.

er, so I guess see Heerobya's post with quotes and stuff.

Cecropia · June 2010

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter
"A space Experience will be in game, its still being worked on - Machinima"

It's unbelievable that anyone would take that as anything other than a manipulative dev-speak dodge. "Space Experience"? What is wrong with you?

I'm telling you I really believe it's going to end up being a cinematic taxi ride from one place to another. I'm hoping it will at least offer some sort of housing system as well.

This is what I'm expecting at launch.

Hrothmund · June 2010

Originally posted by Teala

Originally posted by heerobya

Originally posted by Teala
That is my point. All we have gotten is sound bites and non-discript answers. Nothing substantial. So how can we possible have threads discussing something that we know nothing about. People are bitching because there are not threads discussing these things and I just gave the reason why.

The reason why is...... what again?

Because you thought 6,1,2,3 sucked?

Makes a lot of sense...

Yeah it does. Because of one key word that the developers keep tossing out there - ICONIC! That is a Lucas catch phrase. It was that catch phrase that was used to try to sell players SWG: NGE. It is a phrase that Lucas himself loves to toss around when discussing his films. Seems the BioWare guys love to use it as well. That is like a huge red flag of warning.

Identifying a common buzzword and interpreting it as a red flag seems pretty far fetched to me

Nytakito · June 2010

Originally posted by Teala

Originally posted by Nytakito

Originally posted by Teala
To those saying that because the game is based on the Star Wars IP it cannot fail.   Let's look at the history of IP's for a sec.

Age of Conan...OMG a huge IP. We're talking about the IP with Conan the Barbarian and the world of Hyboria!   It is not doing so hot.   Funcom is trying to recover from the bungled launch still.    It never saw the success it should have seen.

Star Trek Online, another well known and cherished IP and it is struggling to retain players.   How could it possibly fail? I mean my God, we're talking Star Trek here! Yet the game is doing horrible in subscriptions.   How bad of game is it? It is so bad they can't give the game away!

SWG - the orignal. You'd think it would have been a massive hit.   Wrong.   In fact in two years after it's launch it is estimated that the number of subs had dropped to low as 30k.   Down from the 350k it had before that.   But it is Star Wars! How could it possibly fail?!   5 letters come to mind. CU and NGE.    SOE did not know thier target audiance at all.   Fail!

So if you honestly think that BioWare has a auto win button and all they have to do is push it and their game will be a success...LOL!   I want the herbs you all are smoking! Sounds like great stuff!

They already have two succesful Star Wars games in roughly the same time period as this up and coming MMO; in fact I think sales of the two top 2 million boxes sold, I'm pretty sure a decent chunk of those will play because they like the two single player versions; and most likely won't have some baby fit about a story, or companion character etc.. They will probably enjoy having other people to play with. The whole time what will you be doing?? Throwing a fit because the game isn't perfect for you in your eyes? Guess what, you're the loser there because the people playing a game won't give a crap that you are upset about it.

And yes, you do need the herbs we are all smoking, maybe you'd chill a tad instead of keeping your blood pressure up.

See you are thinking like all the people that played their single player games no doubt play MMO's.   In one sense you maybe right, on the other, you maybe wrong and there are a lot of people out there that might play SPRPG games and never touch an MMO.    I know plenty of just such gamers.   Some just do not like the fact that they have to pay to play a game.

Decent Chunk != All. Not sure where you got that since I specifically said.. Decent Chunk.. I am 100% aware that there are people out there not willing to pay a subscription to play a game, at the same time I am also 100% aware of the fact that people who might not normally play an MMO, might try it for the right IP.

I am also aware that just because a company hasn't released specifics that you want to hear about the game to ease your concerns doesn't mean they aren't in there, it just means they aren't ready to release that information yet.

And predicting the success or failure or a game based on your opinion of the quality of the movie counterparts is just plain rediculous; there is no connection.

And at this stage in MMO development, posting things like OMG they won't have crafting, OMG they won't have some endgame is just utter garbage; name me some theme park MMO's without crafting or some kind of endgame activities?? Pretty short list isn't it?

Vagrant_Zero · June 2010

Originally posted by Teala

Originally posted by heerobya

Originally posted by Teala
That is my point. All we have gotten is sound bites and non-discript answers. Nothing substantial. So how can we possible have threads discussing something that we know nothing about. People are bitching because there are not threads discussing these things and I just gave the reason why.

The reason why is...... what again?
Because you thought 6,1,2,3 sucked?
Makes a lot of sense...

Yeah it does. Because of one key word that the developers keep tossing out there - ICONIC! That is a Lucas catch phrase. It was that catch phrase that was used to try to sell players SWG: NGE. It is a phrase that Lucas himself loves to toss around when discussing his films. Seems the BioWare guys love to use it as well. That is like a huge red flag of warning.

If you're a crazy conspiracy theorist you're damned straight it's a huge red flag of warning.

Then again if you're a crazy conspiracy theorist orange juice being orange is a huge read flag of warning.

MMO_Doubter · June 2010

Originally posted by Sovrath

er, so I guess see Heerobya's post with quotes and stuff.

I didn't see any mention of the business model in that.

The other bits about PvP, crafting, and end game were extremely vague.

greed0104 · June 2010

Originally posted by Darth_Osor

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

"A space Experience will be in game, its still being worked on - Machinima"

It's unbelievable that anyone would take that as anything other than a manipulative dev-speak dodge. "Space Experience"? What is wrong with you?

TBH I have to agree with you on this one. The lame KotOR turret minigame could accurately be called a "space experience".

True, hopefully it's far better then that. Still, it should be quoted, because it another activity besides just questing and story.

Ryukan · June 2010

It's possible the information is vague because they are still working on those systems to fine tune them. So far I see them releasing info about the systems which are not common place in many other MMO's to hype these things and then release more details about the standard MMO systems of crafting, PvP and endgame later. I'm interested in hearing more about PvP and crafting, but right now I could care less about the end game. Frankly I won't be concerned with the end game till after the game is released and I am approaching max level/end game area. Most end game in MMO's ends up being the sort of repetitive raid raid raid content anyhow which gets kind of boring.

Lexia · June 2010

Love how people can look into a crystal ball and know how games are going to end. So tell me Teala how is Secret World going to be a success or a failure from a failure company?

greed0104 · June 2010

Originally posted by Ryukan
It's possible the information is vague because they are still working on those systems to fine tune them. So far I see them releasing info about the systems which are not common place in many other MMO's to hype these things and then release more details about the standard MMO systems of crafting, PvP and endgame later. I'm interested in hearing more about PvP and crafting, but right now I could care less about the end game. Frankly I won't be concerned with the end game till after the game is released and I am approaching max level/end game area. Most end game in MMO's ends up being the sort of repetitive raid raid raid content anyhow which gets kind of boring.

Very rare do you see a logical post on this site.

You deserve a Medal.

Teala · June 2010

Originally posted by heerobya

Originally posted by greed0104

Quote :"There is exploration, there is combat, it is a wide-open world" - MMOGamer - Blaine Christine

Quote: "Going to have crafting and harvesting, going to have guilds and social activities" - MMOGamer - Blaine Christine

Quote:" “Hey, if I’m really into more the crafting, harvesting, auction house type of gameplay, are you going to support that?” "Absolutely" - MMOGamer - Blaine Christine

Quote from James Olhen: "Our public areas are one contiguous world", "Not just our cities - 90% of the game, actually, will be areas where you can run into other players" - PC Gamer UK April 2010

Quote from James Olhen: "Its not going to feel like a heavily instanced game" - PC Gamer UK April 2010

A space Experience will be in game, its still being worked on - Machinima

Quote :"There is exploration, there is combat, it is a wide-open world" - MMOGamer - Blaine Christine

Quote: We are going to have crafting, because that's a big part of MMOs. We're going to implement crafting in a way that 'feels' right for Star Wars. - Massively TOR 2008

Quote: We’ve spent quite a bit of time discussing how to ensure that crafters – true dedicated crafters – can make a name for themselves and be important in their community. - Dev Blog Damion Schubert

PvP is in TOR - Multiple Interviews

Quote from James Olhen: "We're going to have open world PvP, As for the more structured PvP, I can't going into details but we will have it" - PC Gamer UK April 2010

Small amount of PvP action shown between 3 players during Dev. Video (4.00) - Designing the Darkside

Quote: "We're looking at classic [endgame] systems, but we're also doing something brand new that hasn't been done in an MMO before - CVG March 2010

End Game Content like Raiding is available if players do not want to re roll- MMOGamer

Quote: The general gist is that we want to reward grouping, but not so much that grouping is the only way to play the game - XP Damion Schubert

Quote from Daniel Erickson: Subject Solo'ing: "There will be content you never see, but you can play from first level to last level solo." - G4TV GDC 2010

I'm going to start quoting this in EVERY SW:ToR thread. Brilliant.

Yes, lets post all the non-discript and simple answers to say "Hey, look - it is an MMORPG! We're just not going to tell you anything remotely about them!" Wow...we see that from game developers like SV and such too...they list all these wonderful things that they say are going to be in game and tell us nothing about them. Give us some serious info. Like oh I dunno...how big is a world? Give us an acutal number to the size we're talking here. Surely this is not to much to ask for. Haven't they by this time determined the average size of a world?

greed0104 · June 2010

Originally posted by Teala

Originally posted by heerobya

Originally posted by greed0104

Quote :"There is exploration, there is combat, it is a wide-open world" - MMOGamer - Blaine Christine

Quote: "Going to have crafting and harvesting, going to have guilds and social activities" - MMOGamer - Blaine Christine

Quote:" “Hey, if I’m really into more the crafting, harvesting, auction house type of gameplay, are you going to support that?” "Absolutely" - MMOGamer - Blaine Christine

Quote from James Olhen: "Our public areas are one contiguous world", "Not just our cities - 90% of the game, actually, will be areas where you can run into other players" - PC Gamer UK April 2010

Quote from James Olhen: "Its not going to feel like a heavily instanced game" - PC Gamer UK April 2010

A space Experience will be in game, its still being worked on - Machinima

Quote :"There is exploration, there is combat, it is a wide-open world" - MMOGamer - Blaine Christine

Quote: We are going to have crafting, because that's a big part of MMOs. We're going to implement crafting in a way that 'feels' right for Star Wars. - Massively TOR 2008

Quote: We’ve spent quite a bit of time discussing how to ensure that crafters – true dedicated crafters – can make a name for themselves and be important in their community. - Dev Blog Damion Schubert

PvP is in TOR - Multiple Interviews

Quote from James Olhen: "We're going to have open world PvP, As for the more structured PvP, I can't going into details but we will have it" - PC Gamer UK April 2010

Small amount of PvP action shown between 3 players during Dev. Video (4.00) - Designing the Darkside

Quote: "We're looking at classic [endgame] systems, but we're also doing something brand new that hasn't been done in an MMO before - CVG March 2010

End Game Content like Raiding is available if players do not want to re roll- MMOGamer

Quote: The general gist is that we want to reward grouping, but not so much that grouping is the only way to play the game - XP Damion Schubert

Quote from Daniel Erickson: Subject Solo'ing: "There will be content you never see, but you can play from first level to last level solo." - G4TV GDC 2010

I'm going to start quoting this in EVERY SW:ToR thread. Brilliant.

Yes, lets post all the non-discript and simple answers to say "Hey, look - it is an MMORPG! We're just not going to tell you anything remotely about them!" Wow...we see that from game developers like SV and such to...they list all these wonderful things that they say are going to be in game and tell us nothing about them. Give us some serious info. Like oh I dunno...how biug is a world? Give us an acutal number to the size we're talking here. Surely this is not to much to ask for. Haven't they by this time determined the average size of a world?

How many times has BioWare said they don't wanna give specifics until they're 100% thats how it will work. Crafting, Endgame, space, everything listed. Obviously they're still working on it, it's not like the game will be out tomorrow. Chill out.

eisenryu · June 2010

MAAAAAAAAN! I wish I had future telling powers. This is some unfair bullsh*t! Could you also tell me who the next president of the US is gonna be? Or do your powers only apply to MMOs?

Nytakito · June 2010

Originally posted by Teala
Yes, lets post all the non-discript and simple answers to say "Hey, look - it is an MMORPG! We're just not going to tell you anything remotely about them!" Wow...we see that from game developers like SV and such to...they list all these wonderful things that they say are going to be in game and tell us nothing about them. Give us some serious info. Like oh I dunno...how biug is a world? Give us an acutal number to the size we're talking here. Surely this is not to much to ask for. Haven't they by this time determined the average size of a world?

You just don't give up beating the same stick over and over and over; even with valid responses FROM BIOWARE to reference.. It's like watching an autistic child bang their head against the wall until the knock themselves out...

greed0104 · June 2010

Originally posted by Nytakito

Originally posted by Teala
Yes, lets post all the non-discript and simple answers to say "Hey, look - it is an MMORPG! We're just not going to tell you anything remotely about them!" Wow...we see that from game developers like SV and such to...they list all these wonderful things that they say are going to be in game and tell us nothing about them. Give us some serious info. Like oh I dunno...how biug is a world? Give us an acutal number to the size we're talking here. Surely this is not to much to ask for. Haven't they by this time determined the average size of a world?

You just don't give up beating the same stick over and over and over; even with valid responses FROM BIOWARE to reference.. It's like watching an autistic child bang their head against the wall until the knock themselves out...

I'm just surprised so many are upset with developers taking the games creation so serious. I'm rather happy their being concerned about it all, I don't want BioWare to tell me one thing today and later change their minds after I've been excited about it.

Erstok · June 2010

Like the majority of all Bioware games. Heavily instanced. So honestly, guildwars with lightsabers. BORING.

greed0104 · June 2010

Originally posted by Erstok
Like the majority of all Bioware games. Heavily instanced. So honestly, guildwars with lightsabers. BORING.

How about some proof, quotes? Video? Nothing? Didn't think so. You fail.

eisenryu · June 2010

Originally posted by Erstok
Like the majority of all Bioware games. Heavily instanced. So honestly, guildwars with lightsabers. BORING.

Majority of Bioware games? Did you by any chance stop to think that this is their 1st actual mmo?

Lexia · June 2010

Originally posted by Erstok
Like the majority of all Bioware games. Heavily instanced. So honestly, guildwars with lightsabers. BORING.

You really should get 'your facts straight' here ya go.

The article then goes on how, with so much story and voiceover, it is tempting to think that The Old republic will be a "pseudo MMO" much like Champions Online, relyign heavily on instancing. But according to James Olhen The Old Republic doesn't work that way. "Our public areas are part of one contiguous world," Olhen says. "Not just our cities -- 90% of the game, actually, will be a public area where you can run into other players."

Also you should read some heres a link http://moonendor.blogspot.com/2010/03/swtor-in-pc-gamer-uk-magazine.html. Have fun reading sir.

Teala · June 2010

Originally posted by Nytakito

Originally posted by Teala
Yes, lets post all the non-discript and simple answers to say "Hey, look - it is an MMORPG! We're just not going to tell you anything remotely about them!" Wow...we see that from game developers like SV and such to...they list all these wonderful things that they say are going to be in game and tell us nothing about them. Give us some serious info. Like oh I dunno...how biug is a world? Give us an acutal number to the size we're talking here. Surely this is not to much to ask for. Haven't they by this time determined the average size of a world?

You just don't give up beating the same stick over and over and over; even with valid responses FROM BIOWARE to reference.. It's like watching an autistic child bang their head against the wall until the knock themselves out...

Nope...I do not give up. I call it like I see it and so far I see nothing that impressive about this game. Voice overs do not impress me. Static story arcs in an MMORPG's do not impress me. Poorly executed game mechanics do not impress me(seriously - you're going to have little green figures pop up on screen to tell people where to run for cover?). Ugly character models and stiff animations do not impress me. Poor looking combat - that just reek of circa 1999 game play doesn't impress me(Jedi Academy's combat looks better and more fluid then this games combat). Must I go on.

eisenryu · June 2010

Originally posted by Teala

Originally posted by Nytakito

Originally posted by Teala
Yes, lets post all the non-discript and simple answers to say "Hey, look - it is an MMORPG! We're just not going to tell you anything remotely about them!" Wow...we see that from game developers like SV and such to...they list all these wonderful things that they say are going to be in game and tell us nothing about them. Give us some serious info. Like oh I dunno...how biug is a world? Give us an acutal number to the size we're talking here. Surely this is not to much to ask for. Haven't they by this time determined the average size of a world?

You just don't give up beating the same stick over and over and over; even with valid responses FROM BIOWARE to reference.. It's like watching an autistic child bang their head against the wall until the knock themselves out...

Nope...I do not give up. I call it like I see it and so far I see nothing that impressive about this game. Voice overs do not impress me. Static story arcs in an MMORPG's do not impress me. Poorly executed game mechanics do not impress me(seriously - you're going to have little green figures pop up on screen to tell people where to run for cover?). Ugly character models and stiff animations do not impress me. Poor looking combat - that just reek of circa 1999 game play doesn't impress me(Jedi Academy's combat looks better and more fluid then this games combat). Must I go on.

So what exactly does impress you? EVE Online? Target>Click>Go Watch TV?

Moretrinkets · June 2010

dude, i will pwn u with my dual wield epix lightsabers +3strength... l33t!

Palebane · June 2010

Is the game even in closed beta yet? Everything is speculation at this point. Speculation does not impress me either. But it is entertaining.

Howdy, Stranger!

The main reason SWG:ToR will fail in the long run.

Comments

Howdy, Stranger!

Quick Links

The main reason SWG:ToR will fail in the long run.

Comments