I love Vanguard,its really the only MMO thats out that I can get into right now.
Huge open world,lots of classes/races,minimal instancing,nice graphics..etc
All that potential gone to waste because it was pushed out too early,now it sits a shell representing what it could have been.
The only way that SOE would actually focus on that game is if the pop grew significantly,which most likely will not happen.Pains me to say it,but I just cant see this game making a come back.
Makes one wonder where it'd be today if it had a solid launch and a dedicated team behind the scenes.
I think a better question would be, why do we want to?
TERA is coming out soon, so are the three new MMO's including the SyFy MMO from the guys at Trion. Plus there's Guild Wars 2, and a plethora of other games coming out. There is no reason to keep these other games on life support because the 20,000 that play that game would be a great addition to a new community so that IT can thrive and become successful as well.
I really hate these threads about saving types of genres or specific games that got a poor launch. It seems like the fans really just can't accept what is simply undeniable about those games; they failed.
And someone mentioned above that if it were good then people would come pay for it. This isn't true. Launch is the most important part of an MMO's success, and a good launch can maintain a surprising number of subs for a long time, even if there is no real content to play (like in Star Trek).
You left out a COA (course of action) that the players can take. Let me tell you a story called: Waht happened to Allegiance online after it was canceled. Allegiance online is still running and it's not being maintained by the company the made it eather, it's being run by a group of volunteers as F2P. In other words players volenteering to maintain an MMO has been proven posible, so this could happen to vanguard. However there is a catch, before this can be done SOE must release vangaurd under a shared source licence.
PS: dont ask about the bold (I thingk there is a glitch in the comment system that keeps me from turning it off)
The game was not near completion. It launched with an entire continent unfinished in addition to MOUNTAINS of bugs. Even three years later, the game still plays more like a beta test than a finished product. Sigil owed money to Microsoft from the previous partnership and had to release it at this point. Expecting SOE to pick up the tab for Sigil's debt is laughable. SOE salvaged what they could, and at least at launch, Vanguard was given a somewhat large development team with around 50 former Sigil employees. They fixed bugs and added content, but the problem was the game was still a buggy mess. People left and continuing to fully fund a failing MMORPG simply wasn't in SOE's plans. Even their flagship title suffers from a lack of dev support compared to the game at launch. Neither game was as successful as SOE or Sigil had planned, and as a result, SOE doesn't have mountains of cash to spend on paying developers to add new content and to polish bugs. The difference is that while EQ2 is a moderate success, Vanguard is a failure. It failed at launch and continued loosing subscriber after subscriber. EQ2 went through a period of server merges and population issues, but as the game began to gain subscribers, it gained content. Games with a healthy playerbase get bug fixes and content. Dying mmorpgs get put on life support. I realize Vanguard is precious to you, but the blame falls on Sigil for attempting to develop a game beyond the scope of their abilities and not SOE for simply running their company as a business should.
The conspiracy theory idea is absolutely ridiculous. SOE is in the business to make a profit, and ingesting millions of dollars into an unproven product simply is not the way to run a business. If Vanguard was bug free and ready for release upon the time of the SOE takeover, SOE would not care what game is making them a profit because a profit is being made. If Vanguard had a sizable playerbase, and SOE was taking in large amounts of revenue from them, they would develop more content for Vanguard to placate the existing playerbase or to attract even more players. Vanguard is not making SOE any money, and resources are better spent funding projects that are actually going to make SOE a profit. SOE is not under the leadership of a bunch of twelve year olds who are mad at Sigil because they think SIgil's game is better than their's is, and the entire idea is laughable. Throughout the history of this laughable excuse, there has not been one single shred of evidence that SOE did, in fact, choke the life out of Vanguard to fluff the subsciber numbers of their flagship title, and the only defense is usually nothing more than bitter vanbois grasping at straws by doing taking offense to such things as SOE having the audacity to run free EQ2 trials for former players among other things. Seriously, stop the conspiracy crap, take a walk outside of your basement, and face reality.
There is so much you are giving me credit for that I didn't say I don't know where to start.
To keep it short, vanguard was NEARING completion, not complete, not quality or in good shape. It was getting to a point where it might have survived launch and made enough money to last until things could shape up. A mile of difference between the point you think I am making.
Also I never said soe was going to pick up the tab from microsoft. Soe offered sigil a lifeline when brad ran to his old buddy. Soe had all the money in that bargain and they could have put in a dozen managers if they wanted, because sigil had nothing to bargain with. Yet soe did nothing to correct the problems sigil was having and watched as the game continued down the same doomed path it was one.
In the end soe gained a game for station pass, tons of developers (many who left soe to begin with), a game that would eventually pay for their small investment and killed a direct threat to EQ/EQ2... all by just sitting back and watching sigil repeat the same mistakes they made with microsoft. It is a winning deal for soe and they get to look like "saviors" who gave the game a second chance.
If soe was investing in sigil to make profits with vanguard they wouldn't have been so fucking stupid to let sigil keep managing itself into the hole it was already in, let alone help make a game that was going to steal players away from their games and thus reduce their revenues by splitting it with sigil, split their resources and divide their playerbase over 3 games. Nothing in that situation helps soes bottom line.
Soe never put a real effort into doing anything with vanguard. From the point they published it to the point where they purchased it. "investing" in vanguards failure was in the best interest for soe if you really look at it.
I recieved the email as did my wife. We both beta tested vangaurd, and played it at launch. The crafting was great made you think. However most of the game systems were totaly broken. I played for the first 3 months then gave up. I came back about 2 months ago for a free trieal for amonth.
You know what the same broken game was still broken in the same way. I was like wow this game still suffers from stuff found in beta, with one exception. Nobody to be seen.
So my thoughts are just shut the game down merging evrybody into one server does nothing, if you still refuse to fix the broken game designs.
You might have more folks running around but what good does that do.
Im sorry I loved the idea of this gaem in beta and when ift first rolled out. I am at the point now of not giving a rats rear end.
I loved Vanguard during the later beta stages, and despite all the bugs, despite the unfinished systems, I probably convinced a dozen friends to buy the game at launch -- and then spent months apologizing to them after SOE ripped the heart out of it and replaced it with a gumball machine that dispensed WoW-flavored gum.
What made Vanguard awesome was the unique return to old-school ideas. Being able to actually get LOST, because there was no radar-blip map. Having to actually walk or ride across huge distances to get places, and thus planning your dungeon raiding by geography rather than whim. Crafthing that was actually more than clicking a button (although the ORIGINAL EQ2 system was better). The original combat system with counters and reactive abilities was also nerfed, although some of that happened before SOE came in (they knew it wouldn't be finished in time for launch).
Once SOE "saved" the game, they started ripping all that stuff out and giving us another easy-mode game that just didn't feel original any more.
A game lives or dies by being original. Vanguard has lost any sense of being a unique game, and frankly I'd rather spend my money playing EQ2, as it's more polished and not all that different.
About the only thing that would save Vanguard, at this point, is converting it to a free-to-play model and hoping enough people will pay for perks to keep the servers running.
A free trial for a week then $5 for your first month would be a start. Not all the tech issues were gone when I played about one year ago. Stop adding humorous content which just makes the high fantasy silly. It makes the game seem a parody of itself.
Vanguard has some great features, add a pvp region and you have a great game.
It is still very broken for me too (literally unplayable), but I agree with the idea of a price plan change, and that it can be saved with a combination of player support and SOE stepping up to the chance at higher subscriber numbers and interest for the moment.
The thing is, the best and probably only chance for that to work is for SOE to drop whatever they are doing on VG and get some of these ideas implemented immediately while they have the extra fan support recently. I wouldn't be surprised if mmorpg.com's support from "After Hours" members is quickly becoming a majority of the population still subscribed, and I admire that initiative a lot (Damn fine work fellow-gamers ).
If SOE let's that show of subscriber support and income go to waste though, then VG is as good as done regardless of what the players do. I would even take the time to fix my crashing and get solutions posted for others if I knew SOE was doing half as much to keep the game alive and well. I just can't enjoy an MMO when I see it's about to disappear, especially due to a developer ditching it almost entirely. TR was one of my favorites, but unfortunately when NCS announced it closing, I never logged in again even with all the last minute content patches thrown in. SOE isn't going to get people like me back to support VG if they can't even put any effort in to their own product and just leave it for dead.
First lets get some facts straight. the OP may hate EQ/EQ2 but they are not the parasites, Vanguard is. If it was not for station pass that allows vanguard its semi-parasitic existance Vanguard would already have had the plug pulled.
Second Vanguard really did die along time ago. It was released in tragic state with Fanbois still hyping it as the holy grail for anyone hardcore enough. and it that wasn't insult enough those same fans went on to state anyone experiencing bugs were obviously playing on a $500 best computer etc.
In the end its not actually the players responsibilty to pay for a beta game till it finally gets its shit togher In Vanguards case its only taken what 2 + years of pay to play beta test? I imagine Brads still off on a beach somewhere chuckling for having successfully unloaded this hunk of junk (putting it kindly) on SOE.
Personally I'm tired of every year hearing the same tired old speel of how Vanguard is finally fixed and how dispite yet another round of server merges the play base is growing?!
It may have been a good idea, but vanguard is dead. I say let it die peacefully and let another developer take a swing at what it could have (but always failed) to be.
First lets get some facts straight. the OP may hate EQ/EQ2 but they are not the parasites, Vanguard is. If it was not for station pass that allows vanguard its semi-parasitic existance Vanguard would already have had the plug pulled.
Second Vanguard really did die along time ago. It was released in tragic state with Fanbois still hyping it as the holy grail for anyone hardcore enough. and it that wasn't insult enough those same fans went on to state anyone experiencing bugs were obviously playing on a $500 best computer etc.
In the end its not actually the players responsibilty to pay for a beta game till it finally gets its shit togher In Vanguards case its only taken what 2 + years of pay to play beta test? I imagine Brads still off on a beach somewhere chuckling for having successfully unloaded this hunk of junk (putting it kindly) on SOE.
Personally I'm tired of every year hearing the same tired old speel of how Vanguard is finally fixed and how dispite yet another round of server merges the play base is growing?!
It may have been a good idea, but vanguard is dead. I say let it die peacefully and let another developer take a swing at what it could have (but always failed) to be.
Yes I agree here, when I read the rant about how SOE has killed the game. They let it live, if not for SOE the game would never have made it out of beta and to live. Station pass has been what has kept the game going. I do agree this game has seen a lack of dev design, the reason why is the fact it has no player base, thus were in the 3rd round of server merges. I think this is the games last hope, and SOE is trying one last attempt before sending it to the file 13 box. Quite honestly this game needs to be where matrix is now.
It is time to admit it was a failure, and move on.
Quite personaly EQ2 is a much better game and has kept me going since lotro chased me away. I don't see how they are the parsite they were around before, and will be around quite frankly for a few more years.
If you want to save something, save the whales or the American wetlands or help preserve old films. I'm serious. You would be doing some good with the investment of your time and at least have a chance of success. Your work would mean something.
This game isn't worth your efforts and it cannot be saved. It has bad karma, and it has it for a reason. From its mismanagement, its misrepresentations, the obnoxious community urging everyone to go back to WoW and then QQing when they do, its firing of half the staff in a parking lot, its horrible beta, its horrible launch, its horrible history since launch ... why would you want to save it? Why would you think you can?
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
I am curious what anyone who wants to save vanguard and the original poster think they could possibly do to get soe to listen to their ideas and concerns.
Writing petitions? creating a facebook group? making some fan videos? Do people even realize what company we are talking about here? Soe doesn't care about its players opinions and they certainly don't care about what people want who are not giving them money. Just look at the history of how this company operates and tell me what anyone here could possibly do to get some attention let alone get soe to take action.
This is a company with a long standing tradition of listening to their balane sheets and ignoring their pleas and desires of their players. They only react to drops in revenue.
I'm not sure what people think they could accomplish with words when dealing with soe.
As a new old returning player I see a lot of crying for this and that and reasons given mostly by people not playing VG as to why they should not play VG. I'll be plain... VG needs to stop any huge development and continue to do focused bug bash updates. Beyond anything else its the bugs and general feel of the UI that sends people packing not that there is a limited end game. Because frankly end game doesn't factor into leaving while still on the trial isle And VG isn't a licensed IP so it won't shutdown like Matrix did. We're very soon to be on one server, which further reduces overhead so keeping the game in supported but not advanced status is cheap.
I've still yet to experience an MMO in which the love of the developers oozes out of every polygon quite as it does in Vanguard. It rivals single-player RPGs like Baldur's Gate II and Dragon Age in that way. Phenomenal.
I'd love to see it brought back to the level it was under Microsoft in Beta 2, but I don't foresee that.
Favorites: EQ, EVE | Playing: None. Mostly VR and strategy | Anticipating: CU, Pantheon
Vanguard is dead, there is no use in SOE investing money to save it, when they can take the innovations it brought to the market and put them into EQ3 and give them a proper launch; it will be better for SOE and MMO's in the long run.
"If I'd asked my customers what they wanted, they'd have said a faster horse." - Henry Ford
I wish, really wish the answer to "can we save Vanguard" was yes, but sadly SOE will not let that happen.
In my opinion, the biggest factor that is killing Vanguard is its CODE. The code is a mess which is the main cause of the lag. It is not that people's computers can not handle Vanguard, it is because they don't want to. LOL
I am going to have to say that Vangurd will be either F2P soon (which will kill it), or hopefully sold to a independent that will give it some TLC. (Brahahaha, never going to happen). Vanguard is a hellva a lot better than EQ2, so SOE will not allow for VG to get anymore better. But again, EQ2 code is solid, VG... not so much.
I can't wait for the game to be cancelled. This game never was going to succeed after trying to appeal to the FEW EQ1 fans, they never acknowledged how many DESPISED EQ1 and should have designed a game based on that instead. In other words a anti-raider game pro-casual.
Well, after reading the article, my response to the question "Can we save Vanguard" was "Well maybe, let's see what folks think."
120+ forum posts later, I guess the answer is "No, and here's 10 pages of stuff we can argue about game companies."
Yeah, VG is circling the drain, and yes it's a very old (in MMO terms) title, and has all the bugs and performance issues (though I don't know what this "character animations" gripe is about, they look fine to me, maybe I'm just playing the wrong classes?).
While I agree that the server merge (now announced for July 7th I think) can only help the game (in terms of cutting maintenance costs somewhat as well as concentrating the existing player base), I don't think it exactly puts the game into EVE status. I think Sovrath was the one who mentioned CCP's incredible dedication to the EVE game and universe, and how they are an exception among MMO companies in that, rather than just moving onto the next shiny title after a luke-warm release (looking at you, Cryptic) in that they commit themselves to the same game and expand it. (Yeah Sovrath, I follow your posts, deal with it ).
Vanguard, unfortunately, has no such luck. I'm under-impressed by SOE's management of any titles (who cares if they developed it initially or not, yes Sigil screwed the pooch on this one but SOE owns the game now), so it's doubtful they'll do anything to surprise us with this one.
However, for those of us actually enjoying the game, hopefully the server merge will buy us some time before the game gets shut down permanently.
And yeah, I do think it's important to support Vanguard, if not financially, then at least vocally, for the type of MMO it was supposed to be. The vision that was in Vanguard shouldn't be lost simply because its execution was so horribly mismanaged. The MMO-scape is getting increasingly more "Hey look, it's WoW again, except our elves have wings and there's Pokemon in it!", and while I'm glad that the industry is getting so much attention, I can't help but regret that the options for games in the vein of Vanguard are becoming few and far between.
I disagree that going F2P would kill the game, as someone said. If SOE would cave and use Vanguard as a test-dummy for their F2P mini-transaction model (which, if they're being honest with themselves, they're going to HAVE to use for EQnext), it certainly couldn't HURT the game worse than it already is.
Anyway, there's my 2+ cents.
Currently playing: LOTRO, Guild Wars 2. Have played: EVE Online; Champions Online; Age of Conan; City of Heroes/Villains; Star Wars Galaxies (pre-CU, pre-NGE); World of Warcraft (Vanilla to Cataclysm); Hellgate: London; Warhammer Online; Lord of the Rings Online; Vanguard: Saga of Heroes; Star Wars: The Old Republic Wishlist: Mass Effect Online
"Now, if we were to get a little cooperation from SOE,..."
That'll happen only after hell has frozen over. SOE has proven time and again they don't give a rats butt about what ideas the players of their games have. It's SOE's way or the highway.
All of your ideas are fine but in my view they must be prefaced with one action: A divorce of SOE from Vanguard. If SOE sells the game off to another companies and severs it's ties with the game, then Vanguard has a chance. Too many people don't trust SOE and don't play VG for that reason (me being one).
I remember asking a SOE rep (think he as VP of something or another, not sure) if he could guarantee me, on the initial VG forums at the time it was announced SOE would handle publishing, that SOE wouldn't take over the game and hit it with it's own NGE. He couldn't. But, the polar opposite happened: They taken a laissez faire approach to the game.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
"Now, if we were to get a little cooperation from SOE,..."
That'll happen only after hell has frozen over. SOE has proven time and again they don't give a rats butt about what ideas the players of their games have. It's SOE's way or the highway.
All of your ideas are fine but in my view they must be prefaced with one action: A divorce of SOE from Vanguard. If SOE sells the game off to another companies and severs it's ties with the game, then Vanguard has a chance. Too many people don't trust SOE and don't play VG for that reason (me being one).
I remember asking a SOE rep (think he as VP of something or another, not sure) if he could guarantee me, on the initial VG forums at the time it was announced SOE would handle publishing, that SOE wouldn't take over the game and hit it with it's own NGE. He couldn't. But, the polar opposite happened: They taken a laissez faire approach to the game.
I have to totaly agree at this point your going down to one server. Do you really thing they have enough proffit from vangaurd at this point to pay a full dev staff?? Realy there probably not many folks working on it at all. This game has been on life support for the past year as it is anyway.
The only way to save it would be for soe to sell it and somebody who is willing to drop about 240 million into the game. I just dont see that happening. After all you had WB sind 180 mill into lotro and what did you get with that F2P with a store that sells items and unlocks to instances. I cant see anybody really wanting to do that for this game.
Would you even play vangaurd if it was the model that DDO uses?
Comments
I love Vanguard,its really the only MMO thats out that I can get into right now.
Huge open world,lots of classes/races,minimal instancing,nice graphics..etc
All that potential gone to waste because it was pushed out too early,now it sits a shell representing what it could have been.
The only way that SOE would actually focus on that game is if the pop grew significantly,which most likely will not happen.Pains me to say it,but I just cant see this game making a come back.
Makes one wonder where it'd be today if it had a solid launch and a dedicated team behind the scenes.
I think a better question would be, why do we want to?
TERA is coming out soon, so are the three new MMO's including the SyFy MMO from the guys at Trion. Plus there's Guild Wars 2, and a plethora of other games coming out. There is no reason to keep these other games on life support because the 20,000 that play that game would be a great addition to a new community so that IT can thrive and become successful as well.
I really hate these threads about saving types of genres or specific games that got a poor launch. It seems like the fans really just can't accept what is simply undeniable about those games; they failed.
And someone mentioned above that if it were good then people would come pay for it. This isn't true. Launch is the most important part of an MMO's success, and a good launch can maintain a surprising number of subs for a long time, even if there is no real content to play (like in Star Trek).
You left out a COA (course of action) that the players can take. Let me tell you a story called: Waht happened to Allegiance online after it was canceled. Allegiance online is still running and it's not being maintained by the company the made it eather, it's being run by a group of volunteers as F2P. In other words players volenteering to maintain an MMO has been proven posible, so this could happen to vanguard. However there is a catch, before this can be done SOE must release vangaurd under a shared source licence.
PS: dont ask about the bold (I thingk there is a glitch in the comment system that keeps me from turning it off)
<<FBZ>>
I forgot to add my sourc of info in my last comment: heres a wikipedia link
<<FBZ>>
There is so much you are giving me credit for that I didn't say I don't know where to start.
To keep it short, vanguard was NEARING completion, not complete, not quality or in good shape. It was getting to a point where it might have survived launch and made enough money to last until things could shape up. A mile of difference between the point you think I am making.
Also I never said soe was going to pick up the tab from microsoft. Soe offered sigil a lifeline when brad ran to his old buddy. Soe had all the money in that bargain and they could have put in a dozen managers if they wanted, because sigil had nothing to bargain with. Yet soe did nothing to correct the problems sigil was having and watched as the game continued down the same doomed path it was one.
In the end soe gained a game for station pass, tons of developers (many who left soe to begin with), a game that would eventually pay for their small investment and killed a direct threat to EQ/EQ2... all by just sitting back and watching sigil repeat the same mistakes they made with microsoft. It is a winning deal for soe and they get to look like "saviors" who gave the game a second chance.
If soe was investing in sigil to make profits with vanguard they wouldn't have been so fucking stupid to let sigil keep managing itself into the hole it was already in, let alone help make a game that was going to steal players away from their games and thus reduce their revenues by splitting it with sigil, split their resources and divide their playerbase over 3 games. Nothing in that situation helps soes bottom line.
Soe never put a real effort into doing anything with vanguard. From the point they published it to the point where they purchased it. "investing" in vanguards failure was in the best interest for soe if you really look at it.
I recieved the email as did my wife. We both beta tested vangaurd, and played it at launch. The crafting was great made you think. However most of the game systems were totaly broken. I played for the first 3 months then gave up. I came back about 2 months ago for a free trieal for amonth.
You know what the same broken game was still broken in the same way. I was like wow this game still suffers from stuff found in beta, with one exception. Nobody to be seen.
So my thoughts are just shut the game down merging evrybody into one server does nothing, if you still refuse to fix the broken game designs.
You might have more folks running around but what good does that do.
Im sorry I loved the idea of this gaem in beta and when ift first rolled out. I am at the point now of not giving a rats rear end.
Let it die already.
Nope.
I loved Vanguard during the later beta stages, and despite all the bugs, despite the unfinished systems, I probably convinced a dozen friends to buy the game at launch -- and then spent months apologizing to them after SOE ripped the heart out of it and replaced it with a gumball machine that dispensed WoW-flavored gum.
What made Vanguard awesome was the unique return to old-school ideas. Being able to actually get LOST, because there was no radar-blip map. Having to actually walk or ride across huge distances to get places, and thus planning your dungeon raiding by geography rather than whim. Crafthing that was actually more than clicking a button (although the ORIGINAL EQ2 system was better). The original combat system with counters and reactive abilities was also nerfed, although some of that happened before SOE came in (they knew it wouldn't be finished in time for launch).
Once SOE "saved" the game, they started ripping all that stuff out and giving us another easy-mode game that just didn't feel original any more.
A game lives or dies by being original. Vanguard has lost any sense of being a unique game, and frankly I'd rather spend my money playing EQ2, as it's more polished and not all that different.
About the only thing that would save Vanguard, at this point, is converting it to a free-to-play model and hoping enough people will pay for perks to keep the servers running.
A free trial for a week then $5 for your first month would be a start. Not all the tech issues were gone when I played about one year ago. Stop adding humorous content which just makes the high fantasy silly. It makes the game seem a parody of itself.
Vanguard has some great features, add a pvp region and you have a great game.
It is still very broken for me too (literally unplayable), but I agree with the idea of a price plan change, and that it can be saved with a combination of player support and SOE stepping up to the chance at higher subscriber numbers and interest for the moment.
The thing is, the best and probably only chance for that to work is for SOE to drop whatever they are doing on VG and get some of these ideas implemented immediately while they have the extra fan support recently. I wouldn't be surprised if mmorpg.com's support from "After Hours" members is quickly becoming a majority of the population still subscribed, and I admire that initiative a lot (Damn fine work fellow-gamers
).
If SOE let's that show of subscriber support and income go to waste though, then VG is as good as done regardless of what the players do. I would even take the time to fix my crashing and get solutions posted for others if I knew SOE was doing half as much to keep the game alive and well. I just can't enjoy an MMO when I see it's about to disappear, especially due to a developer ditching it almost entirely. TR was one of my favorites, but unfortunately when NCS announced it closing, I never logged in again even with all the last minute content patches thrown in. SOE isn't going to get people like me back to support VG if they can't even put any effort in to their own product and just leave it for dead.
First lets get some facts straight. the OP may hate EQ/EQ2 but they are not the parasites, Vanguard is. If it was not for station pass that allows vanguard its semi-parasitic existance Vanguard would already have had the plug pulled.
Second Vanguard really did die along time ago. It was released in tragic state with Fanbois still hyping it as the holy grail for anyone hardcore enough. and it that wasn't insult enough those same fans went on to state anyone experiencing bugs were obviously playing on a $500 best computer etc.
In the end its not actually the players responsibilty to pay for a beta game till it finally gets its shit togher In Vanguards case its only taken what 2 + years of pay to play beta test? I imagine Brads still off on a beach somewhere chuckling for having successfully unloaded this hunk of junk (putting it kindly) on SOE.
Personally I'm tired of every year hearing the same tired old speel of how Vanguard is finally fixed and how dispite yet another round of server merges the play base is growing?!
It may have been a good idea, but vanguard is dead. I say let it die peacefully and let another developer take a swing at what it could have (but always failed) to be.
Yes I agree here, when I read the rant about how SOE has killed the game. They let it live, if not for SOE the game would never have made it out of beta and to live. Station pass has been what has kept the game going. I do agree this game has seen a lack of dev design, the reason why is the fact it has no player base, thus were in the 3rd round of server merges. I think this is the games last hope, and SOE is trying one last attempt before sending it to the file 13 box. Quite honestly this game needs to be where matrix is now.
It is time to admit it was a failure, and move on.
Quite personaly EQ2 is a much better game and has kept me going since lotro chased me away. I don't see how they are the parsite they were around before, and will be around quite frankly for a few more years.
If you want to save something, save the whales or the American wetlands or help preserve old films. I'm serious. You would be doing some good with the investment of your time and at least have a chance of success. Your work would mean something.
This game isn't worth your efforts and it cannot be saved. It has bad karma, and it has it for a reason. From its mismanagement, its misrepresentations, the obnoxious community urging everyone to go back to WoW and then QQing when they do, its firing of half the staff in a parking lot, its horrible beta, its horrible launch, its horrible history since launch ... why would you want to save it? Why would you think you can?
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
the answer isnt VANGUARD the answer is Guild wars 2. /FANBOY love off
on a serious note why invest in a game that could of been a brilliant piece of artwork. but is now a shrivelling rose..
the rots kicked in, deaths inevitable.
only way this game would survive is pure cash injection.
It's all Lies...
Yeah, let it die, so we can read more excuses "But EVERY MMO has instances and loading screens".
This is a serious question.
I am curious what anyone who wants to save vanguard and the original poster think they could possibly do to get soe to listen to their ideas and concerns.
Writing petitions? creating a facebook group? making some fan videos? Do people even realize what company we are talking about here? Soe doesn't care about its players opinions and they certainly don't care about what people want who are not giving them money. Just look at the history of how this company operates and tell me what anyone here could possibly do to get some attention let alone get soe to take action.
This is a company with a long standing tradition of listening to their balane sheets and ignoring their pleas and desires of their players. They only react to drops in revenue.
I'm not sure what people think they could accomplish with words when dealing with soe.
too bad, i played it and loved it.......realy good game for the older mmorpg players.....not just a kids game.
As a new old returning player I see a lot of crying for this and that and reasons given mostly by people not playing VG as to why they should not play VG. I'll be plain... VG needs to stop any huge development and continue to do focused bug bash updates. Beyond anything else its the bugs and general feel of the UI that sends people packing not that there is a limited end game. Because frankly end game doesn't factor into leaving while still on the trial isle
And VG isn't a licensed IP so it won't shutdown like Matrix did. We're very soon to be on one server, which further reduces overhead so keeping the game in supported but not advanced status is cheap.
I've still yet to experience an MMO in which the love of the developers oozes out of every polygon quite as it does in Vanguard. It rivals single-player RPGs like Baldur's Gate II and Dragon Age in that way. Phenomenal.
I'd love to see it brought back to the level it was under Microsoft in Beta 2, but I don't foresee that.
Vanguard is dead, there is no use in SOE investing money to save it, when they can take the innovations it brought to the market and put them into EQ3 and give them a proper launch; it will be better for SOE and MMO's in the long run.
"If I'd asked my customers what they wanted, they'd have said a faster horse." - Henry Ford
I wish, really wish the answer to "can we save Vanguard" was yes, but sadly SOE will not let that happen.
In my opinion, the biggest factor that is killing Vanguard is its CODE. The code is a mess which is the main cause of the lag. It is not that people's computers can not handle Vanguard, it is because they don't want to. LOL
I am going to have to say that Vangurd will be either F2P soon (which will kill it), or hopefully sold to a independent that will give it some TLC. (Brahahaha, never going to happen). Vanguard is a hellva a lot better than EQ2, so SOE will not allow for VG to get anymore better. But again, EQ2 code is solid, VG... not so much.
I can't wait for the game to be cancelled. This game never was going to succeed after trying to appeal to the FEW EQ1 fans, they never acknowledged how many DESPISED EQ1 and should have designed a game based on that instead. In other words a anti-raider game pro-casual.
Well, after reading the article, my response to the question "Can we save Vanguard" was "Well maybe, let's see what folks think."
120+ forum posts later, I guess the answer is "No, and here's 10 pages of stuff we can argue about game companies."
Yeah, VG is circling the drain, and yes it's a very old (in MMO terms) title, and has all the bugs and performance issues (though I don't know what this "character animations" gripe is about, they look fine to me, maybe I'm just playing the wrong classes?).
While I agree that the server merge (now announced for July 7th I think) can only help the game (in terms of cutting maintenance costs somewhat as well as concentrating the existing player base), I don't think it exactly puts the game into EVE status. I think Sovrath was the one who mentioned CCP's incredible dedication to the EVE game and universe, and how they are an exception among MMO companies in that, rather than just moving onto the next shiny title after a luke-warm release (looking at you, Cryptic) in that they commit themselves to the same game and expand it. (Yeah Sovrath, I follow your posts, deal with it
).
Vanguard, unfortunately, has no such luck. I'm under-impressed by SOE's management of any titles (who cares if they developed it initially or not, yes Sigil screwed the pooch on this one but SOE owns the game now), so it's doubtful they'll do anything to surprise us with this one.
However, for those of us actually enjoying the game, hopefully the server merge will buy us some time before the game gets shut down permanently.
And yeah, I do think it's important to support Vanguard, if not financially, then at least vocally, for the type of MMO it was supposed to be. The vision that was in Vanguard shouldn't be lost simply because its execution was so horribly mismanaged. The MMO-scape is getting increasingly more "Hey look, it's WoW again, except our elves have wings and there's Pokemon in it!", and while I'm glad that the industry is getting so much attention, I can't help but regret that the options for games in the vein of Vanguard are becoming few and far between.
I disagree that going F2P would kill the game, as someone said. If SOE would cave and use Vanguard as a test-dummy for their F2P mini-transaction model (which, if they're being honest with themselves, they're going to HAVE to use for EQnext), it certainly couldn't HURT the game worse than it already is.
Anyway, there's my 2+ cents.
Currently playing: LOTRO, Guild Wars 2.
Have played: EVE Online; Champions Online; Age of Conan; City of Heroes/Villains; Star Wars Galaxies (pre-CU, pre-NGE); World of Warcraft (Vanilla to Cataclysm); Hellgate: London; Warhammer Online; Lord of the Rings Online; Vanguard: Saga of Heroes; Star Wars: The Old Republic
Wishlist: Mass Effect Online
"Now, if we were to get a little cooperation from SOE,..."
That'll happen only after hell has frozen over. SOE has proven time and again they don't give a rats butt about what ideas the players of their games have. It's SOE's way or the highway.
All of your ideas are fine but in my view they must be prefaced with one action: A divorce of SOE from Vanguard. If SOE sells the game off to another companies and severs it's ties with the game, then Vanguard has a chance. Too many people don't trust SOE and don't play VG for that reason (me being one).
I remember asking a SOE rep (think he as VP of something or another, not sure) if he could guarantee me, on the initial VG forums at the time it was announced SOE would handle publishing, that SOE wouldn't take over the game and hit it with it's own NGE. He couldn't. But, the polar opposite happened: They taken a laissez faire approach to the game.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
I have to totaly agree at this point your going down to one server. Do you really thing they have enough proffit from vangaurd at this point to pay a full dev staff?? Realy there probably not many folks working on it at all. This game has been on life support for the past year as it is anyway.
The only way to save it would be for soe to sell it and somebody who is willing to drop about 240 million into the game. I just dont see that happening. After all you had WB sind 180 mill into lotro and what did you get with that F2P with a store that sells items and unlocks to instances. I cant see anybody really wanting to do that for this game.
Would you even play vangaurd if it was the model that DDO uses?
The game has such a massive world and so much going for it, theres just one problem
SOE!!