The very first thing I thought about during the reveal of Trions games was how similar the concept and name was to the palladium game.
It also made me sad that there is no rifts game yet.
Never heard of Rifts. The concept reminded me of Oblivion.
This will likely be the defense Trion takes
The retort will be: "it is a popular pnp rpg that has been around for 20 years ... where da hell has your head been buried for the last 20 years?!"
*judge forces name change*
/end yar.
I can also see this happening, but tbh i had never heard of rifts and i have been playing rpg pnp games for the last 20 years lol, shoot me for being a nub but i have honestly never heard of Rifts pnp before today.
O_O what rock have you been hiding under?
Just to let people know Palladium books (the people who make Rifts) will be 30 years old next year...
I personally feel that Trion was not intentionally trying to copy anything from Palladium. But on the other hand I can understand how Palladium might feel threatened. They should just work together. Trion pays Palladium to license the game officially and thus be able to use some of the cooler ideas of Rifts. This would help Palladium with extra revenue and it would help Trion by bringing in some of the Rifts fans. Win win situation. Why fight?
The problem with that is, it sort of shoots Palladium in the foot with the marketing of their own computer games that might be in the works. I think Palladium does have a good base to stand on with this lawsuit, considering I went to the games website and read the page on what the rifts were and thought to myself "Wow, they are stepping reallly close to Rifts..." I guess I'm not the only person who thought this. But as I stated before, Palladium cant just sit back and let Trion go, because when the Rifts games come out then Trion can turn around and sue Palladium. Mostly because they didnt defend their IP when they had the chance......Such a great legal system eh?
And, if I may add, the unfortunate thing with how things work in this day and age is that the ideal in business is to take on as few, if any, partners as possible as this is usually a breeding ground for trouble later on down the road. The likelihood of either company justifying the need for the other is highly doubtful.
The very first thing I thought about during the reveal of Trions games was how similar the concept and name was to the palladium game.
It also made me sad that there is no rifts game yet.
Never heard of Rifts. The concept reminded me of Oblivion.
This will likely be the defense Trion takes
The retort will be: "it is a popular pnp rpg that has been around for 20 years ... where da hell has your head been buried for the last 20 years?!"
*judge forces name change*
/end yar.
I can also see this happening, but tbh i had never heard of rifts and i have been playing rpg pnp games for the last 20 years lol, shoot me for being a nub but i have honestly never heard of Rifts pnp before today.
O_O what rock have you been hiding under?
Just to let people know Palladium books (the people who make Rifts) will be 30 years old next year...
I actually own 2 or 3 copies of Mechaniod Invasion, the first printed Palladium game. I first picked it up in 1984 when I was 14 or 15 years old.
I wish Kevin luck, I hope doesn't turn into a sour old man because of the rough time he has had these past few years. He's a good guy, I met him several times over the years but he got walked on one to many times IMHO.
Anyone know if there is any additional information to be had here?
IMO the case will either be settled out of court, or laughed out of court for trying to trademark such a broad concept as the idea of rifts, which has been around forever. Like another user here said, why not sue Raymond E Feist for use of the idea in his riftwar saga books, or sue the BBC for Doctor Who utilizing the idea in some of their episodes, etc.
IMO this is a complete junk case. I read up on the rifts PnP game after hearing about this, and the people who are calling this similar are off their rockers. The pnp game prides itself on not limiting its spheres of influence. I.e. the game doesnt have only fantasy elements, if anything its more cyber punk and post apocalyptic than anything else. I mean honestly, you have classes like Warlock Cyborg Marine Raiders, and Techno-Wizard Archers, and blah blah blah.
After reading into extensively, the ONLY, and i mean ONLY similarity is the idea of using Rifts for either PC's or NPC's to travel through. Again, and idea that has been used in countless other forms of media such as TV, movies, books, and other video games.
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
Anyone know if there is any additional information to be had here?
IMO the case will either be settled out of court, or laughed out of court for trying to trademark such a broad concept as the idea of rifts, which has been around forever. Like another user here said, why not sue Raymond E Feist for use of the idea in his riftwar saga books, or sue the BBC for Doctor Who utilizing the idea in some of their episodes, etc.
IMO this is a complete junk case. I read up on the rifts PnP game after hearing about this, and the people who are calling this similar are off their rockers. The pnp game prides itself on not limiting its spheres of influence. I.e. the game doesnt have only fantasy elements, if anything its more cyber punk and post apocalyptic than anything else. I mean honestly, you have classes like Warlock Cyborg Marine Raiders, and Techno-Wizard Archers, and blah blah blah.
After reading into extensively, the ONLY, and i mean ONLY similarity is the idea of using Rifts for either PC's or NPC's to travel through. Again, and idea that has been used in countless other forms of media such as TV, movies, books, and other video games.
The 'name' will end up being changed. Watch and see. The real problem isn't the fact that the concept is similar, but that the concept is similar AND Trion has "Rift" in their name. Only the letter s separates the two making it confusing for some (which has already been the case), which leads to misrepresentation.
Yeah, having a similar concept isn't unheard of, but then using the name of the palldium book game system in such a similar fashion that even at a casual glace it does invoke question of this being a palladium mmo is a bit to much.
With the concepts and names so simular, there is legal ground for a case. I feel Palladium is just in protecting themselves in this instance. The simple outcome will be Trion changing the name of its game. There shouldn't be any damages unless they push to market the title.
I find it odd that folks that have played PnP games for any length have never heard of Rifts. Thier RPG catalog must be very limited to what is on the market. Never heard of Steve Jackson Games, G.U.R.P.S., FASA, White Wolf, TSR(now Wizards of the Coast), West End Games, Decipher Games, Task Force Games, etc. etc.. Palladium is an old foundation RPG book maker. They have carried not only thier own titles but licence for Robotech and Teenage Ninja Turtles. RPG settings include realms of horror, high tech sci-fi, spy, post-apocyliptic, fantasy and modern military. All these settings can be merged thanks to concepts in thier principle product, Rifts. Palladium has much to protect in this suit.
Palladium got screwed by an insider a few years ago - which they dramatically call "The Great Betrayal" or somesuch every chance they get to mention it. It's highly unlikely the owner will co-operate with another company after that "trauma"
There's more chance of a buyout, since Palladium isn't worth more than a pittance compared to computer game budgets. But that's not likely either, since the owner is rather - stubborn, and I think he'd rather let the company fail but still own the rights than ever sell out. OTOH, after getting ripped off, may-be enough buckets of $$$ might just be the carrot to walk away.
If Trion doesn't want to bother with the hassle, they might just go ahead and change the name. But they changed the name *TO* Rift: PoT in the first place, so that seems odd to neglect Palladium and their history of lawsuits. Maybe someone in legal just goofed, we'll see.
Otherwise - Trion migh just tell Palladium to pound sand and pony up the buckets of $$$ for the lawyers. They could be banking on the ability to prove that Palladium hasn't sued EVERYone who have used the word Rift over the years, and so can't cherry pick what they decide to go after. Again, we'll see how much fight Trion wants to put into this.
Despite the interal embezzelment situation from a few years ago, Kevin Siembieda seems very open to working with other companies to make Palladium products. Video games, movies, etc. Maybe not RPG books, but he is frequently talking about some sort of "deal" coming together for something or another.
A while back there was Rifts game for the Nokia Ngage system and there has been rumor of an MMO based on Rifts for a while, but those seem to have stalled out.
Nothing new, Just a failing company doing the norm of sue a company that is making money.
As shown above Rifts/Portals is nothing new and not a new concept in games. When I heard of Rift my first thought was the Rifts from Aion.
The only thing they have on Trion is both are games and both have the primary title of Rift. We will either see a name change or they will just pay them off to shut them up. Of course it all depends on which state the lawsuit is filed in. Rifts is also a registered trademark however if Trion has a registered trade mark of Rift: Planes of Telara. The lawsuit has holes. if Trion has no Registered trademark they pretty much screwed besides to pay.
The name itself would put it in direct competition with Palladium, should they ever make a video game based on thier own game; something that they have considered and even attempted in the past.
Palladium is very familiar with naming/ copyright infringements, they themselves had to change the name of one of their PnP RPG books. Nightbane was originally titled Nightspawn, or some such stuff.
It's nothing to do with content. If Trions game turns out to get a reputation for being an abysmal mess, it could impact palladium's ability to sell a game based on their own IP, just because people may make a connection between Trion's game and Palladium's due to similar names.
It's not just that they use the word Rift. Rifts is just a single book out of dozens of books that Palladium has published. Every book after Rifts is named just like Tions game. Rifts: Wormwood, Rifts: Lonestar, Rifts: Coalition, Rifts: Mercenaries, etc.
And copyright enforcement isn't just a US law. Pretty much every civilized nation enforces patents, trademarks, and copyrights. It's the IP equivalent of someone running around your hometown, using your name, and giving you a bad reputation. Palladium has the right to protect the marketability of their IP.
^ QFT
This is off Palladium's site:
"Rifts® as an MMORPG. The Palladium creators and fans alike would love to see a Rifts® online game. In fact, over the last four years, we have made several attempts to bring Rifts® to life as an MMORPG (massively multi-player online role-playing game) with third party licensors.
This year, 2010, two major videogame companies have expressed an interest in Rifts®, but it is too soon to tell where any of these early discussions might lead."
Most people (myself included) have been referring to Trion's game as "RIFT". However one could logically assume that if Palladium were to successfully put together an MMO, it would be called "Rifts" by their fans. See why there's a problem here?
It came out a number of years before the PnP game did. Sure it's different than both Rift and RIfts, but mentions things like a big bad enemy trying to come through, multiple planes, etc, and is called the 'riftwar saga' on top of it.
I played this PnP game in the 8th grade, many years ago. Along with "Heroes Unlimited" (another palladium PnP game). When I saw the title of this up and coming game, I wondered if it was based off of "Rifts".
While there may not be many on this site that thought the same, Im sure other gamers out there had the same thought as I did. That the two might be related. So to me, he has a case.
Also, to the person above who posted that the case was dismissed. For some that can be a bit misleading, it was only dismissed because it was filed in Michigan. Im sure he will refile in California. Im interested to see what, if anything comes out of this though.
Comments
O_O what rock have you been hiding under?
Just to let people know Palladium books (the people who make Rifts) will be 30 years old next year...
And, if I may add, the unfortunate thing with how things work in this day and age is that the ideal in business is to take on as few, if any, partners as possible as this is usually a breeding ground for trouble later on down the road. The likelihood of either company justifying the need for the other is highly doubtful.
Your fail comment, failed.
I actually own 2 or 3 copies of Mechaniod Invasion, the first printed Palladium game. I first picked it up in 1984 when I was 14 or 15 years old.
I wish Kevin luck, I hope doesn't turn into a sour old man because of the rough time he has had these past few years. He's a good guy, I met him several times over the years but he got walked on one to many times IMHO.
Anyone know if there is any additional information to be had here?
IMO the case will either be settled out of court, or laughed out of court for trying to trademark such a broad concept as the idea of rifts, which has been around forever. Like another user here said, why not sue Raymond E Feist for use of the idea in his riftwar saga books, or sue the BBC for Doctor Who utilizing the idea in some of their episodes, etc.
IMO this is a complete junk case. I read up on the rifts PnP game after hearing about this, and the people who are calling this similar are off their rockers. The pnp game prides itself on not limiting its spheres of influence. I.e. the game doesnt have only fantasy elements, if anything its more cyber punk and post apocalyptic than anything else. I mean honestly, you have classes like Warlock Cyborg Marine Raiders, and Techno-Wizard Archers, and blah blah blah.
After reading into extensively, the ONLY, and i mean ONLY similarity is the idea of using Rifts for either PC's or NPC's to travel through. Again, and idea that has been used in countless other forms of media such as TV, movies, books, and other video games.
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
- Friedrich Nietzsche
The 'name' will end up being changed. Watch and see. The real problem isn't the fact that the concept is similar, but that the concept is similar AND Trion has "Rift" in their name. Only the letter s separates the two making it confusing for some (which has already been the case), which leads to misrepresentation.
Your fail comment, failed.
Yeah, having a similar concept isn't unheard of, but then using the name of the palldium book game system in such a similar fashion that even at a casual glace it does invoke question of this being a palladium mmo is a bit to much.
A simple name change should resolve this.
With the concepts and names so simular, there is legal ground for a case. I feel Palladium is just in protecting themselves in this instance. The simple outcome will be Trion changing the name of its game. There shouldn't be any damages unless they push to market the title.
I find it odd that folks that have played PnP games for any length have never heard of Rifts. Thier RPG catalog must be very limited to what is on the market. Never heard of Steve Jackson Games, G.U.R.P.S., FASA, White Wolf, TSR(now Wizards of the Coast), West End Games, Decipher Games, Task Force Games, etc. etc.. Palladium is an old foundation RPG book maker. They have carried not only thier own titles but licence for Robotech and Teenage Ninja Turtles. RPG settings include realms of horror, high tech sci-fi, spy, post-apocyliptic, fantasy and modern military. All these settings can be merged thanks to concepts in thier principle product, Rifts. Palladium has much to protect in this suit.
Palladium got screwed by an insider a few years ago - which they dramatically call "The Great Betrayal" or somesuch every chance they get to mention it. It's highly unlikely the owner will co-operate with another company after that "trauma"
There's more chance of a buyout, since Palladium isn't worth more than a pittance compared to computer game budgets. But that's not likely either, since the owner is rather - stubborn, and I think he'd rather let the company fail but still own the rights than ever sell out. OTOH, after getting ripped off, may-be enough buckets of $$$ might just be the carrot to walk away.
If Trion doesn't want to bother with the hassle, they might just go ahead and change the name. But they changed the name *TO* Rift: PoT in the first place, so that seems odd to neglect Palladium and their history of lawsuits. Maybe someone in legal just goofed, we'll see.
Otherwise - Trion migh just tell Palladium to pound sand and pony up the buckets of $$$ for the lawyers. They could be banking on the ability to prove that Palladium hasn't sued EVERYone who have used the word Rift over the years, and so can't cherry pick what they decide to go after. Again, we'll see how much fight Trion wants to put into this.
Avatars are people too
Despite the interal embezzelment situation from a few years ago, Kevin Siembieda seems very open to working with other companies to make Palladium products. Video games, movies, etc. Maybe not RPG books, but he is frequently talking about some sort of "deal" coming together for something or another.
A while back there was Rifts game for the Nokia Ngage system and there has been rumor of an MMO based on Rifts for a while, but those seem to have stalled out.
Nothing new, Just a failing company doing the norm of sue a company that is making money.
As shown above Rifts/Portals is nothing new and not a new concept in games. When I heard of Rift my first thought was the Rifts from Aion.
The only thing they have on Trion is both are games and both have the primary title of Rift. We will either see a name change or they will just pay them off to shut them up. Of course it all depends on which state the lawsuit is filed in. Rifts is also a registered trademark however if Trion has a registered trade mark of Rift: Planes of Telara. The lawsuit has holes. if Trion has no Registered trademark they pretty much screwed besides to pay.
^ QFT
This is off Palladium's site:
"Rifts® as an MMORPG. The Palladium creators and fans alike would love to see a Rifts® online game. In fact, over the last four years, we have made several attempts to bring Rifts® to life as an MMORPG (massively multi-player online role-playing game) with third party licensors.
This year, 2010, two major videogame companies have expressed an interest in Rifts®, but it is too soon to tell where any of these early discussions might lead."
Most people (myself included) have been referring to Trion's game as "RIFT". However one could logically assume that if Palladium were to successfully put together an MMO, it would be called "Rifts" by their fans. See why there's a problem here?
I do see what you are getting at.
But, doesn't this cause some issues from a name perspective? (i.e. trying to own anything with Rift in it)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midkemia#Rifts
It came out a number of years before the PnP game did. Sure it's different than both Rift and RIfts, but mentions things like a big bad enemy trying to come through, multiple planes, etc, and is called the 'riftwar saga' on top of it.
Ningen wa ningen da.
----
http://twitter.com/Ciovala
Palladium books claim against Trion Worlds dismissed for lack of personal jurisdiction. http://www.livingdice.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/palladium-trion-worlds-decision1.pdf
I played this PnP game in the 8th grade, many years ago. Along with "Heroes Unlimited" (another palladium PnP game). When I saw the title of this up and coming game, I wondered if it was based off of "Rifts".
While there may not be many on this site that thought the same, Im sure other gamers out there had the same thought as I did. That the two might be related. So to me, he has a case.
Also, to the person above who posted that the case was dismissed. For some that can be a bit misleading, it was only dismissed because it was filed in Michigan. Im sure he will refile in California. Im interested to see what, if anything comes out of this though.
P.S.: Look at the games web address, www.RIFTgame.com