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What keeps you there?
satire3rd
Member Posts: 16
Hi all, this is my first post here, so please be gentle 
I'm just doing a little research into people and their time spent in a game, mainly MMO's.
The question I'm currently interested in is what many people call "End Game".
Now I know that I can go through all the game forums or websites, and look at what you or other people are expect to do at end game(I'm already doing this anyway), however I'm interested in what you are actually doing during your time online once you have reached the so called "End Game" status.
Do you, as a player, tend to follow what everyone expects you to do at "end game"; instances, bosses etc, or have you found something else that keeps you coming back to the game?
You don't have to list the game(s) you are playing but I would be interested in the type/genre of game; Space, Fantasty etc.
Thanks for your time in reading this and extra thanks if you take the time to respond.
Comments
Considering there usually isnt much to do other than the actual end game content i do indeed do that but i guess i change it up by doing it with a guild or friends rather that PUGs. So i guess the community is what "keeps me there".
This Forum is a sort of another MMO but without usual game asserts.
Personally, I'm not much into things like raiding, im mainly a PvPer. When i reach "endgame" thats usually what i stick around for, to PvP with other endgame players and compete at our peak (max level, best gear, all skills, etc) . I PvP every chance i get throughout the leveling process, but Ive always found endgame PvP the most fun because as i said, we're generally maxed out with full access to our potential and there is little to no gap between endgame players such as level difference.
As far as which genre, doesnt really matter to me as I enjoy various things such as Fantasy, Sci-Fi, Steampunk, etc it just depend son the quality and fun factor fo the game itself. Although unfortunately the market is flooded way too much with generic fantasy MMOs without much originality to stories, races, classes, etc. Im all for anything original and different instead of cliche cookie cutter crap.
Honestly, now that I think about it, what keeps me in MMOs is how fun the core gameplay is and how the game plays on alts and progression mechanics. Let me be more specific.
2 games currently hold me the longest. They are FFXI and WoW. The reason, isn't endgame at all, but that the core game is fun and that when I go to play an alt(or job in the case of FFXI) I have an almost completely different experience with that character or class/job. Meaning, the world must be huge, must have tons of startings areas in order to not bore me on my alts and have nice distinctions between alts that make them feel very different but not unplayable.
EQ2 almost comes close, but the core gameplay there is NOT as fun as it could be. Vanguard also has an awesome alt game, tons of areas to go through, but the problem there is the core leveling game is hindered by lack of people and not enough solo quests to compensate for certain level humps.
This is one of the reasons I am personally excited about FFXIV, SWTOR and Rifts. These upcoming games "seem" to be offering these exact variables that make me stay in these games for longer periods of time. SWTOR alone said you will have 250 hours of playtime per character. EAch character has his own story, each class can split at level 20 and become something else. Giving you tons of alt options that won't get old and drive me away.
An example of a game that sucks at this is AoC with its ONE starting area, Tortage, while a good area at first, becomes a nightmare the 3rd and up time you HAVE to plod through it.
Oh, and meaninful progression would be things like Alternate Advancement points like EQ2 has, talent trees, etc. Basically giving you stuff to DO. That's all I ask, personally.
For some reason, developers these days think I just want to go kill mobs all day without any reason to do so other than I can. That's what most of the eastern MMOs offer and why I find them extremely shallow.
When I hit max level. I like to join a guild of casual raiders.
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Sometimes I roleplay.
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Sometimes I solo lower level instances.
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Or I might PvP, everyone is a twink at level 80.
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I see end game as more of a social club where I hang out with people who have similar interests.
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Good combat mechanics are important to me too. So is the absence of lag. I hate lag.
Well shave my back and call me an elf! -- Oghren
My ideal mmo is one in which I never reach end game. I like ones where leveling takes a very long time and I can just log on, have some fun and never worry about reaching any ends. For example, I never reached end game in EQ.
That said, I have reached end game in a number of other mmos, and when that happens I usually end up wanting to raid. So then I get all uber serious about my character, crave constant loot and upgrades, min/max like crazy, until eventually I hate myself, the game and everyone around me.
That's why I prefer a game that will save me from myself and spare me ever seeing end game content.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
Well for some it seems to be end game raiding. It's tough and requires a good group utilizing tactics.
For me and others it's about end game PvP. Where everyone is on even footing, where we compete against each other, clan vs. clan or small group vs. small group or even 1 vs. 1.
A lot of people talk about end game because sadly now days thats where a lot of developers decide to stick the fun of the game. It's intentional, so that you will pay for a long while before reach the fun.
This isn't the case for everyone of course but it is for most I think and I am pretty sure developers think so as well considering how they have been designing there games.
This is probably why most MMO's simply don't do as well as they think they will though. When your time in game isn't fun and feels like work, many would rather simply move on. Developers, fans and haters all have there own opinions why players leave but in the end it's because the fun simply wasn't there and many people simply aren't willing to pay to work so that they can eventually reach that part of the game that holds what they seek.
I like PvE but my main attraction to MMO's is the competition and socializing with others. Every individual is unique and it's fun to fight along side them or against them. They provide me with an experience that I do not see an NPC delivering any time in the near future.
For PvE I prefer to play solo for the most part. Mindless killing of intellectually challenged AI to me has always been a solo sport. Dungeons I don't mind doing in groups or if it's something similar to FFXI's Besieged and Campaign systems where you and others are trying to defend a town or outpost against swaths of Mobs that wish to capture it you can sign me up. That feels more like a group thing to me than many other forms of group play does. Friend or stranger suddenly you have a reason to aid one another. Your fighting for something, not just loot and exp. There is an objective, defend the town or outpost. Thats something that I have found fun solo and fighting along random players and groups or in a group with friends.
But I digress for the most part in most MMO's the (including FFXI since you can't do besieged or campaign until your toon is fairly high) the fun just doesn't exist until you reach the end of the game. Be it end game PvE or PvP, thats where many want to be. Don't get me wrong, fun can be had along the way but most of the time the game just feels like work. Whether your running errands all day for NPC's in an errand boy online type of thing (Quest) or killing millions or rats in a group playing exterminator squad online it's generally not a ton of fun and is really just viewed as a means to an end for the players.
So what I'm saying is I guess that End Game is the fun part of the game that we want to play and are paying to play whether it be end game PvE or PvP, we just have to wade through a ton of crud to get there.
The exception for this for me was UO. The whole game was fun and I ended up staying for 10+ years. It was fun and I felt like I was more than just a visitor in that world. I had a vested interest to go along with the fun. The social aspect of the game was fairly good as well.
The "End Game" type of games have rarely held my attention because all that work required to reach that dangling carrot generally builds some massive expectations which are rarely met. So games tend to let a ton of players down, which is why so many MMO's tend to suddenly just start losing massive amounts of subs fast. Many stay as they truly enjoyed the game, but many left because the fun they found at the end of the work just wasn't worth it.
Oops, sorry lol seems I have turned this answer into a rant and a wall of text. Well, my answers in there somewhere and I won't be offended if you just skim through it lol.
Thanks to those of you that have posted so far it really helps with my research.
From the posts here and the other places that I have asked this question, the majority of people although they are playing the content that the game designers have put into the game, it seems, that some form of conflict battles (mainly organised PvP) and the community are the two main factors that keep them in the game.
I see a lot of references to UO, EQ, FFXI and even earlier years of WoW. It shows that people enjoyed the social side of these games just as much as they enjoyed the actual game itself. Is this one of the main factors that these games were as successful as they are/were?
Is this where a lot of newer(and some older) games are faltering? Are they trying to create something new and exciting but also missing out the part why people will continue to play games?
Does it matter if they have lots of things to kill or PvP if there is no real way for a community to be formed?
It's good that players have lots of these small group activities; instances, bosses etc.Where guild members can join together but does this make it harder for new players to be part of the game and help the community grow.
There are a few points and questions that have arisen from these initial findings that I would love to explore at some point, however I don't want to bore people with 100's of questions...not just yet anyway
Thanks again for those that have answered so far, would love to hear from more of you.
http://www.geekonaleash.com
I only have reached endgame in Vanguard: Saga of Heroes.
Back when Vanguard had the Ancient Port Warehouse dungeon, the endgame was big fun.
Unfortunately they later decided to add more, less fun locations. Instead of having to fight especially hard opponents, we got endless grinds. It was very boring.
Fortunately Vanguard allows a sh***load of different activities, so I was able to do other things as well.
I play Jumpgate where there really is no "endgame" other than max level. It's a sandbox environment and I'm simply playing my alter ego and doing the things he would do. That approach has kept me intereted in playing for almost 10 years now. And now that Jumpgate (the original, not JG Evolution) is getting some studio resources once again, it should be even more interesting.
-- Ambros.
Sad to say, nothing is keeping me in any game now. I have LOTRO with 3 maxxed level chars. I have left DDO with 3 maxxed level chars. I tried MO, GOD that is so bad right now. I can see myself very soon leaving DF. And I have tried a bunch of stuff old and new that hasn't done anything for me. The only thing that kinda held my interest was the new Craft of Gods that looks promising however the leveling on that is the worst on any game ever. It shouldnt take 4 hours to get to level 2. So right now I play portal and try to unlock all the bonuses!
Hmm..while community is important for many people. It isn't the ONLY reason for people to stay. Maybe more of a combination of community coupled with great gameplay. Unless its the gameplay being so good that makes a better community? Food for thought.
I say this because the one game I found with the BEST community, LOTRO, even though I enjoy the game, there are a few areas in the game that bore me and drive me away after playing it for awhile. Namely the feel of combat and the grind aspect of Deeds. Hence, gameplay keeps me away and the community DOESN'T keep me playing. But that's just me.
I have never had any interest in the classic MMORPG "end game." I have lots of ideas for characters so usually when I level cap, I just make an alt. Playing the same character but gaining no XP for him or her, is of no real interest to me. I guess that's the achiever coming out a little bit.
Even when the "end game" can help you get better gear, since I can't level anymore, I really don't see the point. Why do I need a better sword, if I have no need to level anymore?
I suppose in some games (not the ones I play) there is certain content that can only be seen both after you cap and after you spend hours re-playing instances to improve your loot above the normal stuff you'd have when you hit the cap. But as I despise repeating content and really enjoy watching my characters grow and level, this kind of play is of no interest to me.
That's why my ideal MMORPG is one that has so much content throughout the game that I can play from level 1 to the cap 2-3 times at least, without any repeats... rather than one that has only one set of content that I'd keep repeating on further play-throughs, but different things to do "at cap." I don't like being at cap and my capped characters usually are retired within days of hitting the cap. For instance I have two level 50 characters in COH (one tanker, one scrapper). I don't think either of them has ever done a single mission of her own (though each one has been logged in to help other players finish THEIR missions) since capping. Usually I log them in to trade down influence to my lower toons, and that's about it.
C
When hitting the end game I do all of the content there is to continue to upgrade my gear and my friend's gear. The most important part of continuing through the end game content would be your friends in the guild. Without a good group of friends sticking together there really ends up being little reason to stick around to slog through repeated boss kills etc...
yeah I agree that it's not the only factor, its just one of the things that I see popping up for a lot of people.
http://www.geekonaleash.com