This stuff is funny. Any of you unlucky people who use their forums name as their ingame names, im going to /who you in every mmo I try and gank the hell out of you, including dirk. There shall be lulz.
It's all about revenge for me. I got ganked growing up, so it's only fair that I show you the same courtesy. Hopefully you will learn from this and grow up to gank others yourself one day. The cycle must continue.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
Even in those games you mentioned as exceptions to the other posters rules, you can and could always easily see how easy or difficult your opponent would be. They all had conning systems. PvPers who seek easy kills over challenges are just as carebear as people who avoid PvP altogether.
If that's the case then I'm curious what your answers are to my three questions.
Except for the fact that I cannot think of one single game that allows low levels to gather resources that would be usefull to higher levels, due to nodes that are skill level blocked.
Which goes back to my statement that it seems part of the divide here is that several in this thread are not familiar with world PvP designs, resource systems or conquest gameplay outside of WOW-styled MMOs.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
I gank because when you join a PvP server.. you CAN. Oh and I find it amusing ganking those scrubs that bitch and moan about ganking that go "HEY YOU BULLY!! YOU JUST WANT TO SHOW OFF YOUR EPEENZ!!!" Lol.. hey pussaaay get off the PvP server.. it isn't for you.
Even in those games you mentioned as exceptions to the other posters rules, you can and could always easily see how easy or difficult your opponent would be. They all had conning systems. PvPers who seek easy kills over challenges are just as carebear as people who avoid PvP altogether.
If that's the case then I'm curious what your answers are to my three questions.
Except for the fact that I cannot think of one single game that allows low levels to gather resources that would be usefull to higher levels, due to nodes that are skill level blocked.
Which goes back to my statement that it seems part of the divide here is that several in this thread are not familiar with world PvP designs, resource systems or conquest gameplay outside of WOW-styled MMOs.
I know in lineage 2, there are crafting mats that one can very easily get in the lower lvls that can be sold to higher lvls. Things like bone, thread, etc. Heck, that's one of the strengths of the manor system.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Ok, so what you are saying is that the people replying aren't intentionally creating a fictional situation, rather they are simply not aware that in games like UO, EVE, PotBS and SB (to name a few)
I'll let others defend their own posts. You replied to my post and quoted my words directly, then characterized them as "creating a fictional situation". Thus, I'm responding to you directly.
And, the situation is not at all fictional. It's supported by the OP's own words.
You're putting up strawmen here. The OP is very clear in the scenarios he presents. You're the one bringing up completely unrelated scenarios to defend it.
a low level player can affect the gameplay just as much as a high level player in terms of resources, goods, territorial control and conquest point
They're affecting the game as much as a high level player, by leveling on their own in, presumably, "much, much lower level areas"? They're a threat to the balance of territorial control by "sitting around, chatting with a friend?" I think not.
And really, you going up and ganking them is going to stop them from harvesting resources or goods? They're not going to continue doing so once you've left? The only way you could prevent something like that with any continuity is to follow that person around and gank them at every opportunity... but, then that would be outright douchebaggery that even the OP doesn't condone. Would you condone that?
the game world is not tiered in such a way as to compartmentalize zones to create barriers of entry for low level players into the higher level zones
1. He's talking about ganking players who are "much, much lower level" and "not much effort" to kill. That would be the case no matter where they were encountered.
2. Lower level players are not likely to be found "leveling solo" or "chatting casually" in much, much higher level areas where a "much, much higher level player" would, presumably, be spending most of their time.
Common sense. It works if you use it.
Which goes back to the three questions i asked earlier.
If there is a PvP zone and you have the enemy trapped in that zone, will you allow low level players through to bring them supplies?
Strawman. The OP is talking about ganking lowbies for no other reason than "they were in his line of sight" or "in the wrong place at the wrong time.We're talking people leveling solo or chatting with a friend, not doing strategic supply runs.
However, to entertain your question... If they're in a PvP zone running supplies, I would expect them to be attacked - by players of the appropriate level for that zone, not by those "much, much higher level", who should likely be in an area more ideal for their level... You know.... looking for actual competitive PvP that they allegedly desire, not "easy kills".
In other words, to use arbitrary numbers, I'd expect to find level 10-15 players hunting down enemies of level 10-15 range. That would be PvP. I'd expect level 30-35 players hunting down other 30-35 players. That would be PvP. I wouldn't expect to see level 70 players hunting down level 30-35 or level 10-15 players. That would not be PvP, and I would laugh at anyone calling it so.
If the group trying to conquer a territory is low level players, will you allow them to conquer because you are higher level?
Still a strawman question that has nothing to do with the OP's scenarios.
If a low level player is gathering resources that he will be using to sell to your enemy or to build equipment for your enemy, do you leave him be or attack him?
Another strawman question and has nothing to do with the OP's scenarios...
But I'll answer it with a question of my own...
Since we are still talking about someone "much, much higher level" effortlessly killing lowbie players, what are you doing haunting areas that are "much, much lower level" than you, if you're looking for actual PvP and not an easy-mode gank-fest? Surely there are players, closer to your own level, who are hunting resources that are even more valuable to your enemy, and much more of an actual and worthwhile challenge to you, right? Why are you hanging around the "much, much lower level" areas?
Any one of those could fit the scenario he described. Are you saying that it's a lack of familiarity with any design outside of the popular WOW-style PvP server that is generating these responses?
No, they couldn't. You're projecting those scenarios into his post. I assume the OP is capable of saying what they mean and doesn't need you "interpreting" for them. Perhaps you could show them that same consideration, yeah?
In his opening post, he specifically said they are "much much lower level players"... "leveling solo" (that is... gaining xp to level up), or "chatting with a friend" (that is, being social and not actively doing anything gameplay related).
He's not attacking them to prevent them from gathering resources to help the enemy. He's not carrying out some "strategy" by ganking them. He's attacking them because, in his words, "they're in his line of sight" or "because they were in the wrong place at the wrong time". Those are the specific reasons he gives. There's no gameplay related goal for his killing them. He simply happened upon them and decided to gank them, because he could.
Your attempts at defending the behavior have been nothing but blatant spin-jobs. There is no reasonable defense for ganking players "much, much lower level than you", simply because "they're in your line of sight". *Except*, perhaps if they're a wartag. Even then, it's not mandatory. I've been ignored many times in L2 by members of clans we were at war with.
By the by... I don't consider WoW to be a serious PvP MMO. Any game where you can go into the areas of an enemy pre-defined for you at character creation, gank people, then escape to the safety of your own lands protected from pretty much any and all retaliation is not what I consider a serious PvP environment.
I played Shadowbane when it was live in retail. I've played Lineage 2 for several years. Both games have no pre-defined "factions". Both MMOs have complete open-territory, FFA PvP and 100% player-driven alliances and politics. Both games have an environment where you're not safe from retaliation or attack, unless you're in one of a handful of safe zones. You can have a bulls-eye on your back for a long time if you piss off the wrong people.
Regardless, I would not attack someone who was clearly "much much lower level than me" simply because they "were in my line of sight".
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
I go by the simple creed of don't attack until attacked first.
I just don't have the heart to randomly kill someone minding their own business. I don't find any real point to it. You're just pissing someone off really, and I tend to gravitate away from such things, in real life and in video games.
I'll throw up a /wave and be on my way.
Very unfortunate, because once I get into the higher levels nobody touches me.
But when I'm a lowbie every high level in the zone tends to camp me. In groups.
Even in those games you mentioned as exceptions to the other posters rules, you can and could always easily see how easy or difficult your opponent would be. They all had conning systems. PvPers who seek easy kills over challenges are just as carebear as people who avoid PvP altogether.
If that's the case then I'm curious what your answers are to my three questions.
Except for the fact that I cannot think of one single game that allows low levels to gather resources that would be usefull to higher levels, due to nodes that are skill level blocked.
Which goes back to my statement that it seems part of the divide here is that several in this thread are not familiar with world PvP designs, resource systems or conquest gameplay outside of WOW-styled MMOs.
I know in lineage 2, there are crafting mats that one can very easily get in the lower lvls that can be sold to higher lvls. Things like bone, thread, etc. Heck, that's one of the strengths of the manor system.
And in Lineage 2, RMT do about 80% (rough guestimate) of the farming anyway because most players can't be bothered, so unfortunately that example isn't even compatible.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
I would like to thank you for ruining many of my MMOs experiences. Maybe I should say thank you for making sure that I don’t bother to launch the game again, saving me the fifteen dollars a month that I might have otherwise paid to enjoy what little content the developers had haphazardly prepared to entertain me.
Personally; I despise PvP focus games because they have so little real content. They (the developers of this style of games) seem to like to depend on the players attacking other players being perceived as content by their players. For me, the lack of a story line simply tells me there is nothing to see there, so I move along. Sorta like the old Jedi mind trick without the Jedi.
Because I roleplay an evil character. Also, if there are factions, I don't want to hold hands with the enemy, it's war, last man standing wins. I'm a hunter, but I'm also hunted.
Yes, it's simple as that. If I was bothered by all 'possible' ganking I wouldn't play that certain game, I would just play a pve centric game.
And in Lineage 2, RMT do about 80% (rough guestimate) of the farming anyway because most players can't be bothered, so unfortunately that example isn't even compatible.
That may be true. My point is that it is possible for lower lvl players to use the manor system and get mats to sell to higher lvl players. that was part of my money making scheme in order to support my main.
It was difficult at times to turn in the fruits but it did work.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
WSIMike, you're getting way too wound up here about something that isn't really being argued. Neither I nor the OP defended actively going into low level areas and hunting low level players.
You accuse me of using a strawman but either you are doing what you accuse me of or you misunderstood the OP's statement.
"Since we are still talking about someone "much, much higher level" effortlessly killing lowbie players, what are you doing haunting areas that are "much, much lower level" than you,"
Who said the area was lower level?
In UO and EVE, new players and veteran players both can find value in the items and resources that can be obtained universally across the map. What a new player in EVE mines is used in the majority of ships and items that players create.
In PotBS, unless it has been changed, players do accrue points for their side by simply having a presence in a PvP zone. Wasn't the gold mine control in SB done that way as well? Not to mention the OP didn't say only attacking idling players but that the player may possibly be idling... a behavior indistiguishable from the way many players actively play an MMO.
"There is no reasonable defense for ganking players "much, much lower level than you", simply because "they're in your line of sight". *Except*, perhaps if they're a wartag. Even then, it's not mandatory. I've been ignored many times in L2 by members of clans we were at war with."
And if you didn't make use of that opportunity to collect intel and scout for your team then you did your team a disservice.
I explained two reasons why low and high level opposing players would be in the same area. I gave three questions that are valid examples of common scenarios from several MMOs. You claim they are strawman arguments, so I guess we are at an impasse. Not every game plays like WOW, Mike.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
I think levels should be hidden to the enemy faction on a PvP server and completely hidden to anyone but the player in an open pvp game.
Me and my friend love to go around guessing potential level of players by their equipments.
I think the strenght of a character should be seen through his looks
Looks meaning we could deceive opposing players by wearing weak equipment.
It would be awsome!
A common tactic in UO and L2.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
I think levels should be hidden to the enemy faction on a PvP server and completely hidden to anyone but the player in an open pvp game.
Me and my friend love to go around guessing potential level of players by their equipments.
I think the strenght of a character should be seen through his looks
Looks meaning we could deceive opposing players by wearing weak equipment.
It would be awsome!
That's what I did once in l2. Wearing much lower lv armor than the other guys around while I was a higher lv. A ganker would come near to pk me than surprise. That was a fun way to hunt the gankers.
I think levels should be hidden to the enemy faction on a PvP server and completely hidden to anyone but the player in an open pvp game.
Me and my friend love to go around guessing potential level of players by their equipments.
I think the strenght of a character should be seen through his looks
Looks meaning we could deceive opposing players by wearing weak equipment.
It would be awsome!
I recall standing outside of Gludio, talking with a friend and wearing C grade armor (lineage 2) even though I was well into B grade armor. I just hadn't raised enough money to get B grade.
Suddenly a pk'er started attacking me. My friend tried to help but was too low. I however was able to take them with relative ease as I was much higher than my armor suggested.
So sometimes it's not all apparent.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Becaus in real life you'd have your pansy ass handed to you, but in the game you can be a "bad ass pvper".
That's why you gank.
Eyes, your lack of understanding of the design of the game does not constitute psychological issues on Dirk's part.
While psychological issues may be too strong a term, douchebag is not. I really get tired of seeing the 'that's the way the game was designed' argument, as it's not really an argument but a lame excuse for people treating other people like shit.
Yes, you can gank a lowbie if the game allows it, just like you can cut in line at the grocery store or any number of other inconsiderate actions that aren't technically illegal. Should you, though?
Clearly, if you're a richard-head like the OP, the answer is yes. Not only that, but you should also illustrate your narcissicism by posting about it.
Ganking is not a complex behavioral pattern that requires any sort of explanation, least of all from the tin ganker. It's an act of selfish douchebaggery, nothing more, nothing less, and everyone here already knows this.
I hate that argument too, its right up there with "she dresses sexy, she deserved to get raped". Gankers are part of the new generation of young men who have had the rug pulled out from under them. Its not PC to be a man anymore, and all those ways boys used to take their natural aggression out on each other plays out in MMOs. You cant throw a rubber playground ball at someones head in gym class anymore, you can't brawl with your friends at school with getting expelled, hell whens the last time you saw a decent male role model for our young men?
Of course this generation is going to act out, theyre practically neutered in every other aspect.
I will agree with boys being neutered today. Part of it is due to our PC society that aggression is bad. Uncontrolled aggression is bad but their is nothing wrong with fueling men's competitive nature. Though why pick on the weak whether in game or rl? What is the point if there is no challenge? Personally I prefer to be challenged and earn the win.
You think it's bad being a male? Try being a naturally aggressive female. Growing up was a pure hell of being told how to behave, what to say, and what I wasn't supposed to think and feel. But your choice of language leads me to believe you don't even consider the repression of agressive tendencies a problem for females, yet women have endured this for far longer than men have.
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
There is something good that comes from all this though. It builds the hate towards the other faction. When I first created my ally character I didn't really gave a crap about the hordes. Yeah the lore told me to hate em but not something that I really felt. When I reached max level I was ganked and griefed so many times that the hate now was natural. Whenever I would see a horde passing buy I'll make em pay. It creates real tension.
Ouch. So you started hating people you don't really know, who probably never did anything bad to you based solely on some arbitrary group membership? So you hate an entire group of people based solely on the actions of a few membrs of the group who are not representative of the group as a whole? In RL that is refered to as hate crimes. Not really a healthy thing to learn from a game.
I don't hate em like I'm going to get my gun and go kill em in real. Wtf lol. I hate that faction in the game and kill em in the game. Outside of it I have no problems whatsoever. Maybe hate is a big word and maybe I didn't explain it better. There is a tension though, little war thingie and it's fine because is just a game. It just gets more immersive like that.
'Hate' is definetly a big word for something that is supposed to be a friendly competition.
In WoW I will often attack the opposite faction when they are flagged but I see it as part of a competition. I so it to see if I can win or if the other player can beat me. If I am actually attaching any stronger emotions to that then I am doing something wrong and should step back and reconsider my motivations. The two sides are just arbitrary divisions created for the sake of competition and any actions should be done in the spirit of that competition.
Hate may be a big word but just have a look at the comments here. The way peoples call the gankers. All kind of offensive names because they killed their characters. That is pretty close to hate for me. These peoples are pissed off.
I don't know though if some games would be what they are if the gankers didn't exist. Someone mentioned Lineage 2 and that game is full of gankers. That however was the game's special flavor. Wandering around fearing that you'll get killed at any time.
To clarify, I distinguish between personalized hate and blanket 'group hate'. Being pissed at a ganker who attacked you might be valid and ecomes a feud between two individuals. Extending that feud to people only coincidently realted to the attacker is taking things to a massively irrational level. It would be akin to being hit by a guy and in revenge you attack the guy's cousin's former college roommate.
Personally I dislike gankers no matter what faction they are. If a guildy friend of mine turns out to be a ganker I will dislike him just as much for that fact. I dislike them for what they do and not what group they belong to. Hatred of strangers you have no personal experience with is very unhealty behaviour, in-game and in RL>
Interesting, There are always people in this world that will take advantage of a situation to cause grief. you see em every day in rl ,
generally picking on others cause they can. of course these types are going to gank in a game.
I don't think we should confuse pvp with ganking. I grew up on pvp it's just like any other sport. you want to win and you want to be the best. I still do enjoy pvp, but I rarely engage in it in most games. The thrill isn't there any more. After engaging enemys for more years than I'm going to admit , I'm looking for sport, not just killing a newbie to run up body count. gankers annoy me, they dont make me mad , they just annoy me because they waste my time.
I played darktide, Daoc, tried war. dont like space so eve is out. enjoyed the old wow before all the battlegrounds. mech warrior pretty much everything that shoots. even did a few combat tours with the 82nd as a scout. but if you met me in game you'd think " major carebare" cause I'd turn down your dual request.
you gankers really don't get it. pvp is a sport, a contest. If it's your idea that pvp is where you go and run over those that offer no challange, you've really missed out on much of the fun that pvp offers,, and cheapened it for all.
Hate may be a big word but just have a look at the comments here. The way peoples call the gankers. All kind of offensive names because they killed their characters. That is pretty close to hate for me. These peoples are pissed off.
I don't know though if some games would be what they are if the gankers didn't exist. Someone mentioned Lineage 2 and that game is full of gankers. That however was the game's special flavor. Wandering around fearing that you'll get killed at any time.
To clarify, I distinguish between personalized hate and blanket 'group hate'. Being pissed at a ganker who attacked you might be valid and ecomes a feud between two individuals. Extending that feud to people only coincidently realted to the attacker is taking things to a massively irrational level. It would be akin to being hit by a guy and in revenge you attack the guy's cousin's former college roommate.
Personally I dislike gankers no matter what faction they are. If a guildy friend of mine turns out to be a ganker I will dislike him just as much for that fact. I dislike them for what they do and not what group they belong to. Hatred of strangers you have no personal experience with is very unhealty behaviour, in-game and in RL>
Ok seriously you are making this such a big deal. Unhealthy behaviour in real? Is just a game. I'm not on a mission to stalk the enemy players in real life and abuse them. You're making it sound like it's so personal. If you're in a pvp game than you should accept gankers as part of it. They do play their role and I doubt many games would be what they are without them.
Becaus in real life you'd have your pansy ass handed to you, but in the game you can be a "bad ass pvper".
That's why you gank.
Eyes, your lack of understanding of the design of the game does not constitute psychological issues on Dirk's part.
While psychological issues may be too strong a term, douchebag is not. I really get tired of seeing the 'that's the way the game was designed' argument, as it's not really an argument but a lame excuse for people treating other people like shit.
Yes, you can gank a lowbie if the game allows it, just like you can cut in line at the grocery store or any number of other inconsiderate actions that aren't technically illegal. Should you, though?
Clearly, if you're a richard-head like the OP, the answer is yes. Not only that, but you should also illustrate your narcissicism by posting about it.
Ganking is not a complex behavioral pattern that requires any sort of explanation, least of all from the tin ganker. It's an act of selfish douchebaggery, nothing more, nothing less, and everyone here already knows this.
I hate that argument too, its right up there with "she dresses sexy, she deserved to get raped". Gankers are part of the new generation of young men who have had the rug pulled out from under them. Its not PC to be a man anymore, and all those ways boys used to take their natural aggression out on each other plays out in MMOs. You cant throw a rubber playground ball at someones head in gym class anymore, you can't brawl with your friends at school with getting expelled, hell whens the last time you saw a decent male role model for our young men?
Of course this generation is going to act out, theyre practically neutered in every other aspect.
I will agree with boys being neutered today. Part of it is due to our PC society that aggression is bad. Uncontrolled aggression is bad but their is nothing wrong with fueling men's competitive nature. Though why pick on the weak whether in game or rl? What is the point if there is no challenge? Personally I prefer to be challenged and earn the win.
You think it's bad being a male? Try being a naturally aggressive female. Growing up was a pure hell of being told how to behave, what to say, and what I wasn't supposed to think and feel. But your choice of language leads me to believe you don't even consider the repression of agressive tendencies a problem for females, yet women have endured this for far longer than men have.
I blame it on the testosterone. Its scientific fact that testosterone has a lot to do with aggression in males, its far more common in men than women. I think you are the exception not the norm. Its vice versa for men, even the most effiminate men Ive ever met still have the capacity to become a victim of their own testosterone. I respect your plight, however I do not think you can compare the two situations.
Heres an interesting read for you however about a study done on female inmates and their levels of testosterone in relationship to how violent they were.
Are we talking about ganking as in I unmount,kill lowbie, then go about my business or walk around low level areas looking for lowbies or following/repeatedly killing lowbies?
Comments
This stuff is funny. Any of you unlucky people who use their forums name as their ingame names, im going to /who you in every mmo I try and gank the hell out of you, including dirk. There shall be lulz.
red=dead
/thread
It's so boring to gank low levels. It's more interesting just standing in Orgrimmar while trial accounts try to spell out a gold site with bodies.
Eleanor Rigby.
It's all about revenge for me. I got ganked growing up, so it's only fair that I show you the same courtesy. Hopefully you will learn from this and grow up to gank others yourself one day. The cycle must continue.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
Which goes back to my statement that it seems part of the divide here is that several in this thread are not familiar with world PvP designs, resource systems or conquest gameplay outside of WOW-styled MMOs.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
why? because it is a game and some may find it entertaining to gank others.
I gank because when you join a PvP server.. you CAN. Oh and I find it amusing ganking those scrubs that bitch and moan about ganking that go "HEY YOU BULLY!! YOU JUST WANT TO SHOW OFF YOUR EPEENZ!!!" Lol.. hey pussaaay get off the PvP server.. it isn't for you.
I know in lineage 2, there are crafting mats that one can very easily get in the lower lvls that can be sold to higher lvls. Things like bone, thread, etc. Heck, that's one of the strengths of the manor system.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
I go by the simple creed of don't attack until attacked first.
I just don't have the heart to randomly kill someone minding their own business. I don't find any real point to it. You're just pissing someone off really, and I tend to gravitate away from such things, in real life and in video games.
I'll throw up a /wave and be on my way.
Very unfortunate, because once I get into the higher levels nobody touches me.
But when I'm a lowbie every high level in the zone tends to camp me. In groups.
It's just not why I play games.
And in Lineage 2, RMT do about 80% (rough guestimate) of the farming anyway because most players can't be bothered, so unfortunately that example isn't even compatible.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
I would like to thank you for ruining many of my MMOs experiences. Maybe I should say thank you for making sure that I don’t bother to launch the game again, saving me the fifteen dollars a month that I might have otherwise paid to enjoy what little content the developers had haphazardly prepared to entertain me.
Personally; I despise PvP focus games because they have so little real content. They (the developers of this style of games) seem to like to depend on the players attacking other players being perceived as content by their players. For me, the lack of a story line simply tells me there is nothing to see there, so I move along. Sorta like the old Jedi mind trick without the Jedi.
Why do I gank?
Because I roleplay an evil character. Also, if there are factions, I don't want to hold hands with the enemy, it's war, last man standing wins. I'm a hunter, but I'm also hunted.
Yes, it's simple as that. If I was bothered by all 'possible' ganking I wouldn't play that certain game, I would just play a pve centric game.
That may be true. My point is that it is possible for lower lvl players to use the manor system and get mats to sell to higher lvl players. that was part of my money making scheme in order to support my main.
It was difficult at times to turn in the fruits but it did work.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
WSIMike, you're getting way too wound up here about something that isn't really being argued. Neither I nor the OP defended actively going into low level areas and hunting low level players.
You accuse me of using a strawman but either you are doing what you accuse me of or you misunderstood the OP's statement.
"Since we are still talking about someone "much, much higher level" effortlessly killing lowbie players, what are you doing haunting areas that are "much, much lower level" than you,"
Who said the area was lower level?
In UO and EVE, new players and veteran players both can find value in the items and resources that can be obtained universally across the map. What a new player in EVE mines is used in the majority of ships and items that players create.
In PotBS, unless it has been changed, players do accrue points for their side by simply having a presence in a PvP zone. Wasn't the gold mine control in SB done that way as well? Not to mention the OP didn't say only attacking idling players but that the player may possibly be idling... a behavior indistiguishable from the way many players actively play an MMO.
"There is no reasonable defense for ganking players "much, much lower level than you", simply because "they're in your line of sight". *Except*, perhaps if they're a wartag. Even then, it's not mandatory. I've been ignored many times in L2 by members of clans we were at war with."
And if you didn't make use of that opportunity to collect intel and scout for your team then you did your team a disservice.
I explained two reasons why low and high level opposing players would be in the same area. I gave three questions that are valid examples of common scenarios from several MMOs. You claim they are strawman arguments, so I guess we are at an impasse. Not every game plays like WOW, Mike.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Me and my friend love to go around guessing potential level of players by their equipments.
I think the strenght of a character should be seen through his looks
Looks meaning we could deceive opposing players by wearing weak equipment.
It would be awsome!
A common tactic in UO and L2.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
That's what I did once in l2. Wearing much lower lv armor than the other guys around while I was a higher lv. A ganker would come near to pk me than surprise. That was a fun way to hunt the gankers.
I recall standing outside of Gludio, talking with a friend and wearing C grade armor (lineage 2) even though I was well into B grade armor. I just hadn't raised enough money to get B grade.
Suddenly a pk'er started attacking me. My friend tried to help but was too low. I however was able to take them with relative ease as I was much higher than my armor suggested.
So sometimes it's not all apparent.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
You think it's bad being a male? Try being a naturally aggressive female. Growing up was a pure hell of being told how to behave, what to say, and what I wasn't supposed to think and feel. But your choice of language leads me to believe you don't even consider the repression of agressive tendencies a problem for females, yet women have endured this for far longer than men have.
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
~Albert Einstein
To clarify, I distinguish between personalized hate and blanket 'group hate'. Being pissed at a ganker who attacked you might be valid and ecomes a feud between two individuals. Extending that feud to people only coincidently realted to the attacker is taking things to a massively irrational level. It would be akin to being hit by a guy and in revenge you attack the guy's cousin's former college roommate.
Personally I dislike gankers no matter what faction they are. If a guildy friend of mine turns out to be a ganker I will dislike him just as much for that fact. I dislike them for what they do and not what group they belong to. Hatred of strangers you have no personal experience with is very unhealty behaviour, in-game and in RL>
Interesting, There are always people in this world that will take advantage of a situation to cause grief. you see em every day in rl ,
generally picking on others cause they can. of course these types are going to gank in a game.
I don't think we should confuse pvp with ganking. I grew up on pvp it's just like any other sport. you want to win and you want to be the best. I still do enjoy pvp, but I rarely engage in it in most games. The thrill isn't there any more. After engaging enemys for more years than I'm going to admit , I'm looking for sport, not just killing a newbie to run up body count. gankers annoy me, they dont make me mad , they just annoy me because they waste my time.
I played darktide, Daoc, tried war. dont like space so eve is out. enjoyed the old wow before all the battlegrounds. mech warrior pretty much everything that shoots. even did a few combat tours with the 82nd as a scout. but if you met me in game you'd think " major carebare" cause I'd turn down your dual request.
you gankers really don't get it. pvp is a sport, a contest. If it's your idea that pvp is where you go and run over those that offer no challange, you've really missed out on much of the fun that pvp offers,, and cheapened it for all.
Ok seriously you are making this such a big deal. Unhealthy behaviour in real? Is just a game. I'm not on a mission to stalk the enemy players in real life and abuse them. You're making it sound like it's so personal. If you're in a pvp game than you should accept gankers as part of it. They do play their role and I doubt many games would be what they are without them.
I blame it on the testosterone. Its scientific fact that testosterone has a lot to do with aggression in males, its far more common in men than women. I think you are the exception not the norm. Its vice versa for men, even the most effiminate men Ive ever met still have the capacity to become a victim of their own testosterone. I respect your plight, however I do not think you can compare the two situations.
Heres an interesting read for you however about a study done on female inmates and their levels of testosterone in relationship to how violent they were.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/1997/09/970927110900.htm
Are we talking about ganking as in I unmount,kill lowbie, then go about my business or walk around low level areas looking for lowbies or following/repeatedly killing lowbies?