The game is over here. It has been rejected by both the florida court and the circuit of appeals. Now it goes to the supreme court which has already refused to hear the case. Even Fox News says that any reinsertion of the the feeding is very very unlikely.
Koltrane. I as well am a conservative Christian, and you speak of playing God. But using technological means of keeping her alive, is that not trying to use science as a god, and interfering with natural death?
Could it not be that in the near future science advances to the extremes that people whom are near 150 years old, brain dead, practically rotting, and for all intent and purposes, dead; but are kept alive by artificial scientific means?
You give examples of extremely mentally retarded children, or babies, in comparison to this. But do they not show free thought? Giving someone time is all well and good to come out of a coma, but 15 years...If you believe in an afterlife, and unless you have fear of going to hell, wouldn't you just as soon wish to go to a much better place, and be free of a motionless cocoon?
Originally posted by brian72282
Religion has no place in our government or courts, thanks.
You may want to read William Blackstones literary works.
backed by our moron of a president, who feel religion should be tied to government (which our constitution says there MUST be a clear seperation between the two),
Incorrect.
There is nothing in the Constitution of the United states that does even remotely say that.
Most people tie what was said about their being a wall between church & state into the constitution not only because of historical ignorance, but as well as ignorance of what the foundational papers of their own government says.
Thomas Jefferson wrote a letter to someone who's name escapes my memory, about that there should be a wall of separation between the church & the state.
Thomas Jefferson is the one who wrote this, modern day people say that this is what the 1st ammendment speaks of...But yet, Thomas Jefferson was off in England when the first ammendment was created.
"The greatest trick the devil played on humanity in the 20th century was convincing them that he didn't exist." (Paraphrasing) C.S. Lewis
"If a mother can kill her own child, what is left before I kill you and you kill me?" -Mother Teresa when talking about abortion after accepting the Nobel Peace Prize in 1979
Why are people so eager to kill her? Let's just assume the doctors hired by the husband are right. There is no higher brain function, there is nothing left, and there is no hope of recovery. People say they wouldn't want to live like that, and her husband claims she said the same thing. But, if she is indeed in the condition her husband's doctors claim, then she isn't living in any condition. She isn't suffering by being kept alive because there is nothing there capable of suffering. They claim she will feel no pain from dying, then how could she feel pain from living? And if that is the case, why pull the feeding tube if the parents are willing to take over her care other than to punish her parents?
On the other hand, let's just assume that the doctors who claim she can recover are right. From others who were said to be in a vegitative state and recovered have said, they can hear, see and feel everything that is going on outside. They just can't communicate that to anyone. If that is the case, she is slowly being starved to death and feeling every agonizing moment of being murdered. Imagine not being able to move and slowly being starved to death. It would be an awful way to go.
So my question is, if the husbands doctors are right, what will it hurt to keep her alive, and if the other doctors are right, is starving a helpless woman to death (and not even allowing her to be fed or give water through normal means) the right thing to do?
Originally posted by n2sooners So my question is, if the husbands doctors are right, what will it hurt to keep her alive,
If you're religious. You're keeping a soul imprisoned in a useless body. If you're not; causing emotional distress, making it harder to let go, possibly false hope, and well...a pointless financial drain.
"Fear not death; for the sooner we die, the longer shall we be immortal."
Sorry LILLIPPA328, but all the major news networks have said she had a stroke 15 years ago and that is what caused her condition. Mental retardation has nothing to do with it. The controversy seems to be whether she is brain dead or not. Apparently her parents have at least one Dr that says she isn't, but others say she is. I'm not sure if she could react to anything if she were brain dead, but I think not. Her reactions could be nothing more than some impulse reaction to light or something I suppose.
I would hate to be in the position of making this decision, but if she is brain dead, then she is in fact already dead. We as a society tend to make the mistake when we take action to keep someone alive rather than let them live. I truly don't know the answer here, but I feel it is more complex then just labeling it as killing someone.
Originally posted by LILLIPPA328 This is an act of murder people, just as abortion is. There are taking someone's life without even letting the person do anything about it.
I think you are a bit misled by your own personal pro-life opinions.
Abortion is LEGAL.
The thing that disturbs me about this is that it is only her husband that says she wished to never be kept on the machines, etc...
I would rather see some extra people verifying this personal choice.
Originally posted by Aldaron Originally posted by Jackgrey I think you are a bit misled by your own personal pro-life opinions. Abortion is LEGAL.So was the murder of millions of Christians under Stalin, the millions of jews/catholics/crippled/retarded/blacks under Hitler.
Somehow, I dont remember blacks or Catholics(most germans were) being involved in hitlers case.
The thing that disturbs me about this is that it is only her husband that says she wished to never be kept on the machines, etc...
Actually, Michael Schaivo's testimony to that was discounted of her wishes.
The testimony of others that knew her, saying it was her choice was how the determination was made.
There are many actual court documents out there on boths sides of this issue.
To the gentleman who had to make this decision regarding his wife, my heart goes out to you. I had to make this decision for my son 19 years ago.
It is always easy to sit back and say I would do this or that., until the time comes when you are the one now faced with those choices.
I cannot sit in judgement of either party (parents or husband) in this, since I am only a bystander with the basic information and not privy to all the going ons.
Daily, there are families faced with these decisions and they are made by the families. What has me upset the most are those that we vote to represent us in office feel that they can find ways around the laws for their own end.
Another issue that bothered me, is when the parents said that even if these were her wishes, they would not fulfill them.
That made me do something for myself. I went and had a living will created. For my parents would be the ones to make those decisions for me. My parents (my other son is very young - 12) would be the ones to make that decision for me, and they knew how I felt. But until recently it was not in writing. It made me question if my parents, or anyone who may have to make that decision for me, would honor what I requested without a legal document.
One player's great game is another players derisive snort! http://www.darthmyr.com for free guild forums
If a child was born WITHOUT a cerebral cortex (That bit of brain that includes, thought, speech, emotion, reasoning, all higher functions) I imagine most would let it die. Granted it would be a truly heart-rending decision but ultimately every doctor worth his or her Hippocratic oath would suggest the same. This is a TERMINAL condition.
SHE HAS NO CEREBRAL CORTEX! Sadly she is beyond repair. One or two doctors who have never examined her are claiming they can cure her? With what? Magic SNAKE OIL? These quacks are nothing but predators, preying on the deluded parents.
Every court decision over the past umpteen years have sided with the husband. Every court found enough evidence to routinely side with the husband. We are (were?) a nation of LAWS but apparently that is only when it suites a certain religious minority to whom the Right wingers court.
Science is under siege from these people. Biology, Evolution, Geology, et cetera...at this rate, it looks like my grandchildren will be learning about the geocentric universe...that started 6000 years ago!
This poor woman has been exploited long enough. People are using her for political gain and some undoubtedly for profit.
Heaven protect us from these people. Let her die. Let her husband and parents grieve.
Originally posted by anthrorob This poor woman has been exploited long enough. People are using her for political gain and some undoubtedly for profit.
Yup. And I can name 2, and both of their names rhyme with push.
The parents are allowed to go to the hospice to see her. They are just not the ones that have her in custody and they are not the ones to make decisions on her behalf.
Originally posted by Iceman12321 Look They arent able to see her...??
Ah, that's new, I didn't see that yet. Well, it is Micheal's right, as her guardian, to refuse them the option of seeing her. I think it is for the best, considering they only want what's best for themselves, not their daughter. When they say they would even go against her wishes to pull the tube, that just shows they only are thinking for themselves.
I just think its sad that they wont be able to see her alive again. They wont let them see her for the last couple of mins/hours/days that she will actually be alive
ok i just watched more of it and it said "refused to block the removal of the feeding tube tomorrow" meaning this was from the 18th. they can in fact see her now.
Schutzbar - Human Warrior - Windrunner Alliance - World of Warcraft Nihilanth - Kerra Paladin - Blackburrow - EverQuest II XBL Gamertag - Eagle15GT
Comments
The game is over here. It has been rejected by both the florida court and the circuit of appeals. Now it goes to the supreme court which has already refused to hear the case. Even Fox News says that any reinsertion of the the feeding is very very unlikely.
"The greatest trick the devil played on humanity in the 20th century was convincing them that he didn't exist." (Paraphrasing) C.S. Lewis
"If a mother can kill her own child, what is left before I kill you and you kill me?" -Mother Teresa when talking about abortion after accepting the Nobel Peace Prize in 1979
Why are people so eager to kill her? Let's just assume the doctors hired by the husband are right. There is no higher brain function, there is nothing left, and there is no hope of recovery. People say they wouldn't want to live like that, and her husband claims she said the same thing. But, if she is indeed in the condition her husband's doctors claim, then she isn't living in any condition. She isn't suffering by being kept alive because there is nothing there capable of suffering. They claim she will feel no pain from dying, then how could she feel pain from living? And if that is the case, why pull the feeding tube if the parents are willing to take over her care other than to punish her parents?
On the other hand, let's just assume that the doctors who claim she can recover are right. From others who were said to be in a vegitative state and recovered have said, they can hear, see and feel everything that is going on outside. They just can't communicate that to anyone. If that is the case, she is slowly being starved to death and feeling every agonizing moment of being murdered. Imagine not being able to move and slowly being starved to death. It would be an awful way to go.
So my question is, if the husbands doctors are right, what will it hurt to keep her alive, and if the other doctors are right, is starving a helpless woman to death (and not even allowing her to be fed or give water through normal means) the right thing to do?
"Fear not death; for the sooner we die, the longer shall we be immortal."
Sorry LILLIPPA328, but all the major news networks have said she had a stroke 15 years ago and that is what caused her condition. Mental retardation has nothing to do with it. The controversy seems to be whether she is brain dead or not. Apparently her parents have at least one Dr that says she isn't, but others say she is. I'm not sure if she could react to anything if she were brain dead, but I think not. Her reactions could be nothing more than some impulse reaction to light or something I suppose.
I would hate to be in the position of making this decision, but if she is brain dead, then she is in fact already dead. We as a society tend to make the mistake when we take action to keep someone alive rather than let them live. I truly don't know the answer here, but I feel it is more complex then just labeling it as killing someone.
I think you are a bit misled by your own personal pro-life opinions.
Abortion is LEGAL.
The thing that disturbs me about this is that it is only her husband that says she wished to never be kept on the machines, etc...
I would rather see some extra people verifying this personal choice.
"Fear not death; for the sooner we die, the longer shall we be immortal."
Somehow, I dont remember blacks or Catholics(most germans were) being involved in hitlers case.
Actually, Michael Schaivo's testimony to that was discounted of her wishes.
The testimony of others that knew her, saying it was her choice was how the determination was made.
There are many actual court documents out there on boths sides of this issue.
To the gentleman who had to make this decision regarding his wife, my heart goes out to you. I had to make this decision for my son 19 years ago.
It is always easy to sit back and say I would do this or that., until the time comes when you are the one now faced with those choices.
I cannot sit in judgement of either party (parents or husband) in this, since I am only a bystander with the basic information and not privy to all the going ons.
Daily, there are families faced with these decisions and they are made by the families. What has me upset the most are those that we vote to represent us in office feel that they can find ways around the laws for their own end.
Another issue that bothered me, is when the parents said that even if these were her wishes, they would not fulfill them.
That made me do something for myself. I went and had a living will created. For my parents would be the ones to make those decisions for me. My parents (my other son is very young - 12) would be the ones to make that decision for me, and they knew how I felt. But until recently it was not in writing. It made me question if my parents, or anyone who may have to make that decision for me, would honor what I requested without a legal document.
One player's great game is another players derisive snort!
http://www.darthmyr.com for free guild forums
six days...
...without food and water
If a child was born WITHOUT a cerebral cortex (That bit of brain that includes, thought, speech, emotion, reasoning, all higher functions) I imagine most would let it die. Granted it would be a truly heart-rending decision but ultimately every doctor worth his or her Hippocratic oath would suggest the same. This is a TERMINAL condition.
SHE HAS NO CEREBRAL CORTEX! Sadly she is beyond repair. One or two doctors who have never examined her are claiming they can cure her? With what? Magic SNAKE OIL? These quacks are nothing but predators, preying on the deluded parents.
Every court decision over the past umpteen years have sided with the husband. Every court found enough evidence to routinely side with the husband. We are (were?) a nation of LAWS but apparently that is only when it suites a certain religious minority to whom the Right wingers court.
Science is under siege from these people. Biology, Evolution, Geology, et cetera...at this rate, it looks like my grandchildren will be learning about the geocentric universe...that started 6000 years ago!
This poor woman has been exploited long enough. People are using her for political gain and some undoubtedly for profit.
Heaven protect us from these people. Let her die. Let her husband and parents grieve.
but why, why cant the parents see their own daughter?
I dont understand this at all...
Look
They arent able to see her...??
I just think its sad that they wont be able to see her alive again. They wont let them see her for the last couple of mins/hours/days that she will actually be alive
that i dont agree with. although i think they should keep the tube out, i think its just cruel to keep her parents from seeing her in her last hours.
Schutzbar - Human Warrior - Windrunner Alliance - World of Warcraft
Nihilanth - Kerra Paladin - Blackburrow - EverQuest II
XBL Gamertag - Eagle15GT
ok i just watched more of it and it said "refused to block the removal of the feeding tube tomorrow" meaning this was from the 18th. they can in fact see her now.
Schutzbar - Human Warrior - Windrunner Alliance - World of Warcraft
Nihilanth - Kerra Paladin - Blackburrow - EverQuest II
XBL Gamertag - Eagle15GT
Its not looking good for Terri
, down to her last couple of hours.