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Does anyone realize that SWTOR and FFXIV...
elocke
Member UncommonPosts: 4,335
Does anyone realize that SWTOR and FFXIV both tout a NO Auto Attack combat system and that everyone who watches the combat vids keeps griping about how slow or clunky the combat looks?
I think I heard this same argument when they were showing AoC combat before it launched, as it too does not utilize auto attack.
My point here, is maybe the lack of auto attack makes spectating boring but playing incredibly fun and different then the norm. So hold off on those "combat sucks" opinions until you get a chance to play it. I know I am.
Comments
After playing a few games without auto attack, whenever I go back to a game that does have auto attack, it looks so out of place. I far prefer games that allow me to utilize my skills without caring about if I'm getting any white damage off my auto attacks.
My Guild Wars 2 Vids
I looked at two people playing chess. It looked incredibly boring to me. I also looked at someone playing Civilization 4, and I fell asleep after 3 minutes.
Thus, chess and civilization are boring and therefore, bad games.
Clever lad lol. I agree with your logic.
Something like Star Wars I think i would prefer NOT to auto attack and to personally attack. It will help make me feel more like I'm useing a lightsaber....yes...
autoattack games with tab targeting are officially horribly dated. this is why i will not be picking up Cataclysm. after playing Global Agenda, everything pales in comparison. GW2 wont have autoattack either, so im looking forward to the "skill" component in combat.
however, i thought SWTOR has tab targeting and autoattack??
ha ha. brilliant!
Here is the post on the official forums that gathers the latest known info:
http://swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=33345
here is the section on Combat, copy and pasted word for word.
Gameplay: Combat
No Auto Attack - Mentioned in Multiple Reviews
Combat abilities can be used while moving, Sith Inquisitor seen using force Lightning in PvP while moving - Combat Dev. Vid.
NPC AI does seem to be aware of its surroundings, They take cover and the move away from other NPCs that may cause them harm etc - Developer Walkthrough
Depending on if you use either a single or duel Lightsaber you will gain abilities the other does not - GamesSpot (GamesCom)
Combat has been designed towards PvP - IGN Q & A
TOR is more an action based Combat system rather than the standard MMO style in other games - IGN Q & A
All classes will also have their ranged as well as close combat skills - MMORPG Comic Con
Synchronized combat. Lightsabers actually clash etc - GamesRadar
While seeing the Combat in the Flaspoint its seemed very like Battlefront with 10 vs 2 combat - StarWarsMMO Demo
When engaging NPCs the NPC switched from Ranged to Melee as the Players got closer - StarWarsMMO Demo + VO Video
Combat was more fluid not stiff like KOTOR - StarWarsMMO Demo
Cooldowns on the skills were very short, and the skills themselves were swift, immediate- EuroGamer
Duel use of Lightsabers shown. - Mentioned in Multiple Reviews + VO Video
Short cooldowns and Channeling of abilities shown - VO Video
I love the "watching chess is boring" logic. I agree.
I played FFXI for 2 years and it's almost impossible to explain to the new generation of MMO players why that game was so exciting, while they sit and criticise the combat speed.
Now that I see FFXIV's new combat engine, I am even more delighted in the combat style. Yes, it only appears slow because whoever we see playing the alpha/beta obviously doesn't understand that there is no auto-attack anymore. The stamina system is awesome and I give multiple kudos for Square Enix innovating combat yet again.
On a side note, watching someone play WoW isn't that exciting either... quite boring actually.
Watching AION, on the otherhand, is intense in comparison. No, I'm not boosting Aion. I quit that game too. It just helped to make the point in terms of what combat systems "look" fun. In this case, the point being that we cannot tell how fun combat in and of itself is going to be unless we try it.
Another side note, I think TOR's use of the non-auto-attack combat style is garbage. It looks like wow combat, but clunky, and less automated. I cannot say it will be un-fun, because I haven't tried it, but I can say that it's an eye-sore, especially considering that the rest of the game doesn't seem as hightech and innovative as the developers would like us to believe.
This is not a troll, flame, or anything else worth banning me over. It is simply my pure opinion, and I have a right to share it.
There are definitely combat systems that look good just by watching them. It is quite easy to market and hype this kind of combat. It's fast, it's twitchy, it's fluid.
But then there are combat systems that work more like chess. There's a lot more going on in your head than in-game, in the best case. It's harder to hype this kind of combat, because you're really not "there" when you just watch someone else play and do the thinking. It loses half of it's appeal just like that.
The only way to get a real grasp at a combat system like that is to try it yourself.
Im kinda glad The Old R- looks clunky. it would be very graphic intensive to have non auto attack combat and good graphix. this way it still appeals to the mass' with low graphic settings, at least...im assuming. it's still has a year yet before release so, alot can be done, not to mention WHEN they push the release date
Monster Hunter style combat! ::Yes, please.::
Monster Hunter is quite slow now isn't it?
At least mine was on PSP. It was great nonetheless though.
Earning things yes, it's very grindy; but it's much more fun to dodge and block attacks yourself IMO. All though I know FFXIV will probably be nothing like that, I can only hope it might be similar at least. :]
I think SWTOR has auto targetting so you will auto face only now you have to click to shoot or swing at your opponent and time it in with the specials as all work off the same cool down.
Sadly I think this has missed the point of non auto attack options. What made the AoC combat so good was that if you position yourself right you can hit 3 or 4 people at once. It can get annoying that when they surround you its not possible and you have to resort to your AOE attacks. With Auto Targetting its likely that we will lose this ability and all attacks will be single target unless you are using a special attack. So while you gain little tactically you do end up suffering from RSI in your finger from mashing the basic attack button.
The no auto attack in AoC makes the game feel more reactive. The no auto attack also raises the skill requirement as well thou. There is a huge difference in the amount of dps a skilled melee in AoC puts out. Auto attack curves the difference down to a few percentage points.
Sage words. Non-auto-attack combat is very difficult to judge from mere watching. Generally people should not take videos to judge how fun the combat is.
This isn't fanboyism. I am the first to say when something sucks, AFTER I tried it out myself.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
I'll one up that very good example:
I looked at two people playing a FPS deathmatch... and I not only fell asleep, but got sick right before that as well.
Yeah, watching games and playing them are totally different experiences. So you never know until you play them.
This is also why I think as players we usually tend to overrate features - whereas in game design not features, but implementation is absolute king. We tend to overrate features, because we can't talk about implementation until we get our hands on the damn games!
CoX never had auto attack. Its called an attack chain. Live it, love it. Auto attack sucks. Premise of thread been disproven for years.
What are you talking about? One line answers are breeding grounds for trolls. Back up what you say.
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"Your pride, good sir, far exceeds your worth." -x3r0h
Oldest mmorpg.com member with the least amount of post counts. That counts for something, right?
the difference between auto attack and no auto attack is very trivial imo
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in some non auto attack games you have to click a lot more with yhour mouse which gets annoying.
Well shave my back and call me an elf! -- Oghren
Some? I know of only one at the moment. AoC. Are there any others? How is clicking a mouse a lot more different than hitting 1,2,3,4 a lot more?
in some games, DDO comes to mind, you click to attack. after playing a while, you tend to spam mouse clicks, not because you have to but you're waiting for the cool down so you start clicking early.
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my mouse started sounding like a machine gun with all the clicking.
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i think i did find an auto attack toggle somewhere and turning that on helped.
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funny that they give you the option. I bet they had to add the toggle because people didn't like the combat system.
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aoc is the same way, so is WAR. lots of mouse click spamming in the hopes of hitting the attack after the global cooldown is up.
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essentially, in games without auto attack, you wind up making the auto attack yourself. it's tedious.
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if i cared about a game without auto attack, i'd probably wind up scripting auto attack with a some kind of hardware solution that could never be detected, like a mouse or keyboard macro.
Well shave my back and call me an elf! -- Oghren
This has to be like the 5th time you've been told that you can hold the button down to continously attack. Seriously.
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lol . . .
I do prefer the no auto-attack systems my self I have played a few of them, and no spaming what ever attack doesn't work in any of them I have played accept DDO reason being the games I have played to date that requiered a manual action from teh user to perform an attack also featured position based or time based tactic i.e. swing faster = swing softer, hold the button down and you hit harder, positional I dont think needs a discription think AoC you dont want to spam the center attack all the time you will get far better results if you position your self and use the attack that will hit on the mobs weeker side or on the side of the other mobs assuming more than 1. Even in older click to attack games im thinking of TES I didn't find that I was spam clicking.
Haveing said all that, though I prefer an active combat system with no auto-attack its not a make or break feature for me, AoC was just fun in terms of its combat but not fun enough to earn my money LotRo is a traditional MMO and I pay for it happily.