Uh oh. You say it has one of the best. Other people say it has one of the worst. Im torn, because if you see it on the internet... it must be true!!!!!
Uh oh. You say it has one of the best. Other people say it has one of the worst. Im torn, because if you see it on the internet... it must be true!!!!!
So which one do I believe??? Argggghh!
Some alternate advancement would do the game good (or any PvE content aside from instances really..) but other than that it's solid. I have no idea which game they could refer to that has a better endgame if WoW has the worst >_>.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
Regarding City of Heroes: Their next expansion will add (among other things) a lot more endgame.
My vote for worst would be Wow and it's many clones. I despise games that let you solo to the top level and then require you to group to continue/play their endgame.
Kind of all MMOs have bad endgame for (in my opinion) most don't even have Endgame.
So u have the highest lvl that means now u go into Instance XY and kill Boss YZ....is that endgame??
Certainly most do think so but i always had to disagree if u start doing Instances with lvl 10 and the only difference with lvl 90 is the Instance itself than i just don't see it as Endgame since u did it over the whole game,
So what do ui see as an good Endgame??
Well for example FF11 its not only the fact that u have most endgame stuff in FF11 than more the fact that u do stuff in the higher lvls u didn't do before.
For most of the endgame stuff u first had to advance to a certain degree in a story line which wasn't possible if u weren't high lvl enough that's what i call endgame, stuff u weren't able to do before.
But like already mentioned that's just my opinion.....
With all these quest based solo games around now, I really haven't had the patience to play any of them to end game. The only one I've managed to stick out to the end since EverQuest is LOTRO, mainly because it had group content in each geographical location which was enough to keep me playing.
So I'm probably a bit biased, having nothing else to compare to, when I say LOTRO. I literally ran out of things to do. I mean, I could keep doing raids but the raids really weren't that good anyway as they dropped the needed number of players down. Helegrod was an awesome raid zone pre-Moria, after that it all went blah. So I'll say LOTRO has the worst endgame - for me.
Another great example of Moore's Law. Give people access to that much space (developers and users alike) and they'll find uses for it that you can never imagine. "640K ought to be enough for anybody" - Bill Gates 1981
Really EQ1 started the whole. "We got these mobs you're pretty much going to need 3 guilds to take down." WoW just gave it all kinds of mechanics and some rewards. FF followed suit after establishing what end game was to look like.
If people think WoW's endgame was bad they're either 1) jaded or 2) retarded.
I kill other players because they're smarter than AI, sometimes.
All theme Park MMO's do, I mean c'mon? The old tank, healer etc then go hit a instance raid is a very piss poor end game, compared to a good solid sandbox where the end game is so much more as it's really about community.
Conan and Fallen Earth have pretty bad endgames. LOTRO is the worst Ive seen. There isnt much to do once you get all your leet gear in conan. Seiging has no real purpose, pvp is pretty pointless and unbalanced. Fallen Earth I am much less knowledagble about, but from what I read and heard from the devs, and the middle game i played, once you cap out, its the same thing. You can take over conflict towns and pvp, and thats about it. But theres no point to either, as it doesnt help you grow in a meta game. And PVP is kind of a joke.
Hence why the EVE/Darkfall sandbox endgames are best. They are open ended and infinite. Theres no end to killing people to take their stuff or growing your empire. EVE adds significant new content every six months free of charge.
I don't think any game is free of an endgame, I'm pretty sure even games with endless progression have endgame.
I think people get stuck on the tradtional endgame of reach level cap raid for gear, its just a very refined idea of endgame, endgame to me is kinda like when you reach a certain knowledge about the game, through game expierance, that really sharpens your outlook on goals and progression.
You feel that gurgle-gurgle in your gut and know where you are heading. You dash through the house to the bathroom. When you flip on the lights, you also flip on the fan. You figure you might be there for a little while. Pants and underwear drop to the ankles and you drop to the seat. Plop, plop, oh what a relief it is! You wipe. You wash. You are done. Do you hang out in the bathroom after that?
End Game. Think about it for a moment.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Taking a current perspective of any 2+ year old game's "end game" is like taking a photograph of an arrow in flight.
For me, some of the most fun end game experiences happened in eq1 2001-2003 or in wow 2006-2007.
The "worst" end game experiences happened for me in warhammer and age of conan.
Never got to high end in FF or UO but I heard good things. Same with DAOC.
EQ2 endgame, sadly, for me is pretty "pat" and "meh". There's alot of it to be sure, but ingenuity is nowhere near what it should be from what I'd imagine an EQ sequel to be.
I agree CoH is probably the most successful game "without" an end game, not counting eve which is a class unto itself.
Any game with no PvP option as part of the endgame is weak for me. Yes we know most games have thet standard Raid and Gear progression for endgame. But without the option to PvP, it'd drive me nuts. On top of that, some games have little to no development, or that they're very slow at adding content.
Comments
Best: WoW, post-2006 FFXI
Worst: Any game that copies WoW's endgame structure.
It's the best of both worlds, although overall WoW has better endgame, but FFXI has no competitors.
Uh oh. You say it has one of the best. Other people say it has one of the worst. Im torn, because if you see it on the internet... it must be true!!!!!
So which one do I believe??? Argggghh!
Some alternate advancement would do the game good (or any PvE content aside from instances really..) but other than that it's solid. I have no idea which game they could refer to that has a better endgame if WoW has the worst >_>.
Games with weakest end game....STO/CO ,Aion,War.
this is not a thread asking for opinions about the best just the worst.
War, Aion, Pirates of the burning sea.
Kindest regards,
DKW
Eve and WoW...really all of them.
Regarding City of Heroes: Their next expansion will add (among other things) a lot more endgame.
My vote for worst would be Wow and it's many clones. I despise games that let you solo to the top level and then require you to group to continue/play their endgame.
Kind of all MMOs have bad endgame for (in my opinion) most don't even have Endgame.
So u have the highest lvl that means now u go into Instance XY and kill Boss YZ....is that endgame??
Certainly most do think so but i always had to disagree if u start doing Instances with lvl 10 and the only difference with lvl 90 is the Instance itself than i just don't see it as Endgame since u did it over the whole game,
So what do ui see as an good Endgame??
Well for example FF11 its not only the fact that u have most endgame stuff in FF11 than more the fact that u do stuff in the higher lvls u didn't do before.
For most of the endgame stuff u first had to advance to a certain degree in a story line which wasn't possible if u weren't high lvl enough that's what i call endgame, stuff u weren't able to do before.
But like already mentioned that's just my opinion.....
With all these quest based solo games around now, I really haven't had the patience to play any of them to end game. The only one I've managed to stick out to the end since EverQuest is LOTRO, mainly because it had group content in each geographical location which was enough to keep me playing.
So I'm probably a bit biased, having nothing else to compare to, when I say LOTRO. I literally ran out of things to do. I mean, I could keep doing raids but the raids really weren't that good anyway as they dropped the needed number of players down. Helegrod was an awesome raid zone pre-Moria, after that it all went blah. So I'll say LOTRO has the worst endgame - for me.
Worst WoW and FF
Best none!
Another great example of Moore's Law. Give people access to that much space (developers and users alike) and they'll find uses for it that you can never imagine. "640K ought to be enough for anybody" - Bill Gates 1981
Worst: Warhammer Online and Guild Wars
Best: WoW and FF
WoW really invented streamlining endgame.
Really EQ1 started the whole. "We got these mobs you're pretty much going to need 3 guilds to take down." WoW just gave it all kinds of mechanics and some rewards. FF followed suit after establishing what end game was to look like.
If people think WoW's endgame was bad they're either 1) jaded or 2) retarded.
I kill other players because they're smarter than AI, sometimes.
Any game by Cryptic Studios. They've all had horrible end-games if they've had any end-game at all. All of their games win hands down.
Bren
while(horse==dead)
{
beat();
}
All theme Park MMO's do, I mean c'mon? The old tank, healer etc then go hit a instance raid is a very piss poor end game, compared to a good solid sandbox where the end game is so much more as it's really about community.
This thread sucks. Most mmos have bad/no endgame.
Better question to ask would be "Which games have lots of interesting or fun things to do after you reach the level cap?"
Conan and Fallen Earth have pretty bad endgames. LOTRO is the worst Ive seen. There isnt much to do once you get all your leet gear in conan. Seiging has no real purpose, pvp is pretty pointless and unbalanced. Fallen Earth I am much less knowledagble about, but from what I read and heard from the devs, and the middle game i played, once you cap out, its the same thing. You can take over conflict towns and pvp, and thats about it. But theres no point to either, as it doesnt help you grow in a meta game. And PVP is kind of a joke.
Hence why the EVE/Darkfall sandbox endgames are best. They are open ended and infinite. Theres no end to killing people to take their stuff or growing your empire. EVE adds significant new content every six months free of charge.
That's laughable. WoW isn't even in the top 5.
Best: FFXI
Worst: Any of these post-WoW themeparks.
"what games have the weakest end game ? "
All properly designed games that are about the journey, as they should be, and not the end.
Endgame is a ridiculous concept that I refuse to buy into.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
I think your confusing MMOs and single player games.
I don't think any game is free of an endgame, I'm pretty sure even games with endless progression have endgame.
I think people get stuck on the tradtional endgame of reach level cap raid for gear, its just a very refined idea of endgame, endgame to me is kinda like when you reach a certain knowledge about the game, through game expierance, that really sharpens your outlook on goals and progression.
End Game. Think about it for a moment.
You feel that gurgle-gurgle in your gut and know where you are heading. You dash through the house to the bathroom. When you flip on the lights, you also flip on the fan. You figure you might be there for a little while. Pants and underwear drop to the ankles and you drop to the seat. Plop, plop, oh what a relief it is! You wipe. You wash. You are done. Do you hang out in the bathroom after that?
End Game. Think about it for a moment.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
Taking a current perspective of any 2+ year old game's "end game" is like taking a photograph of an arrow in flight.
For me, some of the most fun end game experiences happened in eq1 2001-2003 or in wow 2006-2007.
The "worst" end game experiences happened for me in warhammer and age of conan.
Never got to high end in FF or UO but I heard good things. Same with DAOC.
EQ2 endgame, sadly, for me is pretty "pat" and "meh". There's alot of it to be sure, but ingenuity is nowhere near what it should be from what I'd imagine an EQ sequel to be.
I agree CoH is probably the most successful game "without" an end game, not counting eve which is a class unto itself.
Any game with no PvP option as part of the endgame is weak for me. Yes we know most games have thet standard Raid and Gear progression for endgame. But without the option to PvP, it'd drive me nuts. On top of that, some games have little to no development, or that they're very slow at adding content.
So for now I'd give my vote to Vanguard.
EQ1-AC1-DAOC-FFXI-L2-EQ2-WoW-DDO-GW-LoTR-VG-WAR-GW2-ESO
ICWHATUDIDTHAR
Philosophy of MMO Game Design