These posts are going to keep creeping up on this site for another few years. It will come up in different topics, threads ect. And people will post again and again.....why? Because people never forget Sony....Never! MMO developers beware!...
Haha I get that SOE messed up in alot of people's eyes, I guess my issue is that it was 5 years ago and people took it / still take it so personally. SOE was just trying to make their game appeal to more people...granted they didn't exactly do it in a gracious manner but it's done, over, and gone. It's not even this thread that angers me, it's how people find ways to stick the 'Big Screwup' issue into a conversation about rocks.
I'm sorry to the people who were wronged but seriously, get over it...
/endRant
you know this is what sets most people off, telling them to get over it because it happend years ago, a few posts back Terranah said it best "What bothers me the most is it's the one mmo in my mind I keep wanting to go back too, but it doesn't exist anymore. So even if I am seeing SWG through rose tinted glasses, I'll never be able to reconcile my memory with current gameplay. My memories will always be of hanging out in the cantina with my guildies, hunting parties gathering resources, mining, crafting, decorating, my pets, etc. " thats what eats at us, usually the only way you cant go back to a game is if it gets canceled, and at least that we can live with, its final. But when a game gets gutted and turned into a shadow of what it was and doesnt go away, its like a slap in the face. To say get over it because its just a game is ignorant, and no im not calling you that. I met some of my closest friends from inside SWG, and I'm still in touch with em every day. Frankly the only time I even bring up SWG is when another game is in danger of repeating the same mistake or someone is telling someone else to get over it. thats my 2 cents.
Luxu's point, if presented in a humourious manner does serve a reminder to us, that the past is passed. Let it sink.
A lot of people ruined a lot of good things in life, my neighbor's car ran over our dog and so on. We cannot live in memory forever, notably those with a grudge.
Well, I can't say that my heart was really broken. However, I've had plenty of let-downs over the years.
Horizons - David Allen had such grand ideas. I thought this was going to be the biggest thing ever. This was back in the EQ days. The graphics were so detailed and amazing. The story was amazing. PvP was going to be amazing. Angels, Demons, and dragons. Playing a fledging dragon with almost no skills and trying to surive to adult hood to become extremely powerful. Then David Allen left. The entire game chagned. Tthe graphics went from realistic to cartoony WoW, and the game turned into a PvE fest. WOW, such a huge let down.
Warhammer - I guess I fell into the trap like most other DAoC vets. I was thinking Warhammer lore and clases with DAoC gameplay. Nope, just Battleground grinding in an attempt to copy WoW's success with them.
Gods & Heroes - Awesome videos, immersive combat. Got into beta and was pysched. There was some bugs, but it was really smooth for the most part. Then the game died from lack of funding. Still kinda hoping this one can be ressurected. However, it may be past it's time. Gladiator and 300 have come and gone. Nothing to really gather a bunch of hype at this point.
Aion - Only because all my friends left to go back to craptastic WoW. They got bored of the grind and didn't want to stick it out until end game. I lasted another couple months and quit because it just wasn't the same without my friends.
Dark and Light - Another game that boasted grand ideas like the original Horizons. I got into beta and played about 30 minutes before I gave up. It's hard to want to help a company improve their beta when the game feels like total crap.
Anyway, that's my mixed bag. I'm sure there are others I'm forgetting. The biggest in the list above was probably Horizons. There was also this game called Fate. I barely remember it now. It had awesome artwork though. World that was invaded by aliens. The world had elves and humans using a mix of technology and magic to fight back the alien swarm.
This has turned into a brilliant thread. Some real honest feelings beeing expresed here. Also some very good points for any visiting devs coming to read up on gamers opinions (I've heard it hapens around here sometimes). Made my choices earlyer just wanted to say what a good read this has been so far. One of the best threads in ages imo.
I actually feel they killed this game as soon as the hologrind started. People were just jumping from profession to profession just to become Master and move on. But then the NGE completely poleaxed it.
I'm in the same boat as you on SWG. It is the game that I should still be playing to this very day, but like yourself I found the holocron craze to be the beginning of the end of the game and that the swg team was desperate and out of solutions to fix the game.
What was once an active social community turned into people grinding professions they had no real interest in playing just for the chance to be a jedi. It was a cheap attempt to give players something to do and it had a horrible impact on the game. Being the only master chef on my server at the time it was extremely annoying.
Everyone focuses so hard on the combat upgrade and the NGE, but they forget just how poor the game was executed prior to those revamps. They happened in response to the poor condition swg was released in and sadly the poor management decisions killed its potential long before those changes.
Agreed on the Hologrind...Of coarse that was why I REALLY enjoyed the CU version of the Game...It took out the Hologrind and added a whole bunch of other stuff I welcomed because I thought the Pre-CU version needed a lot of work...I still don't understand fully the love for Pre-CU...I remember how much Folks complained about it back then, and I know how much Me and quite a few of My Guildies welcomed the CU...I mean...Of coarse Pre-CU was better than the NGE...But to me that's not saying much...It was OK...But nothing worthy of the praise it gets if you ask me...And no one did...
The original SWG was filled with massive potential, but failed miserably in execution. It took a lot of patience and overlooking issues to enjoy what little did work in the game. Even then soe managed to make the game worse with each patch and ignoring what players wanted.
The combat upgrade was an improvement to some things, but it was not what the game needed or what players asked for. It still was an improvement on things, but never really tapped into the potential of the game and also suffered from the lack of execution that the original game did.
I can see where people enjoyed or didn't enjoy either. They were both fabulous and horrible at the same time.
Raph created a great foundation for a game, but wasn't given the time to finish it. Soe kicking him out of the project right after release was one of the bigger mistakes they made.
And another notch on the Star Wars Galaxies bed post. This game truely broke my heart, Or maybee it was Sony that ripped my heart out, tossed it into the street and laughed meniacly as the dogs fought over it!!
Without a doubt, Vanguard. So much potential, made by Brad McQuaid the legend who created Everquest. Lots of ex-EQ fans have been waiting for a true EQ successor. EQ2 isn't it, Vanguard looked like it could be it. But Brad & Sigil co. messed it up really really bad, and missed the chance completely. You simply don't mismanage $30mil and 5 years of game development. People expect a good game at launch when you are given such money & time.
Second runner up... Warhmmer Online. I expected much more from the creator of DAOC. I thought because Mythic gave us DAOC, the game with the best RvR & siege gameplay, that WAR would be just as good if not better. Wrong... it was as if they forgot all knowledge of DAOC when they made WAR. It was as if they forgot how to create a good, effective endgame RvR content. They had the winning formula in DAOC in terms of realm abilities, relics, darkness falls, siege mechanics, class composition, etc.. Then WAR came, we got a very bad endgame RvR gameplay, very bad realm ability choices, very bad itemization in RvR, very bad siege mechanics, and classes just don't seem as cool & balanced as DAOC was.
SWG. No, I didn't play it. But that was the game which has over the years clearly demonstrated how this hobby is filled with with wuzzy losers. This is my opinion and it is not intended to offend anyone.
My first reaction would be to say Vanguard. However, played Vanguard for over 3 years and had an absolute wonderful time... so it's tough to say after all that fun that it broke my heart. I am disappointed that Sony didn't invest more time, money and development into the game.
WAR hands down. I bought a new rig and got totally into the hype. I remember the adrenaline I felt as servers first opened. The first 2 weeks were a blur as we were all leveling up together. Public quests were full, server queues were crazy long...they kept adding servers...it was all a blur and a rush. Then....we got to endgame. Big let down. People started dropping, my guild disappeared and sadness abounded.
In fact, since then, I've never allowed myself to get excited for a game launch and I am very skeptical of any 'next big thing.'
its a tie for me....Champions Online and now DC Universe Online....I followed the CO site for over a year, got all excited, then I lost my job, I waited with baited breath, maybe, Maybe...someone will put up a "AAA" quality super hero style game without doing the standard sub fee/cash shop model, or at least come up with options I can afford...nope...
As if that wasn't enough, CO offered lifetime subs for the game but only up until game launch...(for those of you not familliar with the game's history)...
Now there's DCU Online; once again I waited to see if SOE would offer something other than the sub fee with cash shop model...nothing doing.
Essentially, if you want to be in cape and tights, you have to commit to a sub fee and cash shop. I'm one of those in the what 10% that are still unemployed more or less since 2008, Companies that produce Super Hero MMO titles only care about their bottom lines, not their players.
for me it was EQOA, was my first MMO played it for years, then SONY stated they would never support the HUD for the PS2 to be used with EQOA so they would never be able to actually have ANY real updates to the game. after that the game started to die when people realised nothing new was coming to the game.I too eventually quit ,tho there is still a few die hards playing the game that has had no real updates since like 03 or 04 0.o. they've tweaked the classes but thats it.
Blizzard just said: all the epic dungeons you did and got and the epic gear you got down the trash , and I know MMORPG should be more about than just the gear but I think this is what made WoW from a perfect game into a broken game, and Blizzard a company which cares about gameplay first into a company that cares about money first ( I know it was all illusion in the first place but that is how I felt in vanilla wow)
Second:
WAR - I thought it was the next step in revolution of mmos after WoW , boy was I wrong - the first in the list to try to recreate the world of warcraft experience turns out to be a huge BullCr4p
World of Warcraft is a proof that MMORPG quality should affect schedule/budget and not the other way around.
These posts are going to keep creeping up on this site for another few years. It will come up in different topics, threads ect. And people will post again and again.....why? Because people never forget Sony....Never! MMO developers beware!...
Haha I get that SOE messed up in alot of people's eyes, I guess my issue is that it was 5 years ago and people took it / still take it so personally. SOE was just trying to make their game appeal to more people...granted they didn't exactly do it in a gracious manner but it's done, over, and gone. It's not even this thread that angers me, it's how people find ways to stick the 'Big Screwup' issue into a conversation about rocks.
I'm sorry to the people who were wronged but seriously, get over it...
/endRant
you know this is what sets most people off, telling them to get over it because it happend years ago, a few posts back Terranah said it best "What bothers me the most is it's the one mmo in my mind I keep wanting to go back too, but it doesn't exist anymore. So even if I am seeing SWG through rose tinted glasses, I'll never be able to reconcile my memory with current gameplay. My memories will always be of hanging out in the cantina with my guildies, hunting parties gathering resources, mining, crafting, decorating, my pets, etc. " thats what eats at us, usually the only way you cant go back to a game is if it gets canceled, and at least that we can live with, its final. But when a game gets gutted and turned into a shadow of what it was and doesnt go away, its like a slap in the face. To say get over it because its just a game is ignorant, and no im not calling you that. I met some of my closest friends from inside SWG, and I'm still in touch with em every day. Frankly the only time I even bring up SWG is when another game is in danger of repeating the same mistake or someone is telling someone else to get over it. thats my 2 cents.
Luxu's point, if presented in a humourious manner does serve a reminder to us, that the past is passed. Let it sink.
A lot of people ruined a lot of good things in life, my neighbor's car ran over our dog and so on. We cannot live in memory forever, notably those with a grudge.
I left SWG, I left DAoC, I moved on.
And yet another person who does not read the topic tittle.
Most people have moved on, but since it's asked in this topic it's what people have to say about it, shame some of you seem to have missed what this topic is about, regardless most of us have already moved on.
Yeah I stated what I did too be more humorous then anything. Dry humor fail. All good games die eventually......each progressing and showing different aspects possible for MMO's too touch on. SWG perhaps went in a direction that wasn't beneficial for it self or its customers. The developers behind many MMO's are gamers themselves and many have probably played SWG or at least followed its life line. I think it did give attention to key points developers should look at when altering a game. Every genre or franchise has some type of learning curve, this was the MMO equivalent. I believe developers took something away from the SWG fiasco that bettered the games they made and will continue too show up in their works today.
Vanguard- Played from Beta, the game was good , but mismanaged and run all to hell. Shame. It should have been big.
Dark and Light - Everything a fantasy mmorpg should be. At least that was what was promised. Almost preordered, but I wasn't able due to extremely lagging server. Guess that was a good thing.
Wish- Doubt most people remember this but I think a certain editor does. It was good, almost good enough to replace UO. Then it died very suddenly.
The Stranger: It's what people know about themselves inside that makes 'em afraid.
Warhammer Online dissapointed me the most I'd say.Was really looking forward to it for a long time and thought it would be a success.I never thought it would be anywhere near as successful as a lot of other people though, but still thought it would have over 400K subs after a year.Pre order it and played it right when servers opened only to discover it was buggy and boring.Classes and combat where boring and the game looked like it had less then a million dollar development budget.
It's a tossup between AoC, Warhammer, and Vanguard for me. All of those games had potential yet all of them were released way before they should have been and were horribly managed.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
Comments
No game ever "broke my heart". They are games, entertainment. Either i have fun with them, and i continue to play, or not, which i stop.
Luxu's point, if presented in a humourious manner does serve a reminder to us, that the past is passed. Let it sink.
A lot of people ruined a lot of good things in life, my neighbor's car ran over our dog and so on. We cannot live in memory forever, notably those with a grudge.
I left SWG, I left DAoC, I moved on.
Well, I can't say that my heart was really broken. However, I've had plenty of let-downs over the years.
Horizons - David Allen had such grand ideas. I thought this was going to be the biggest thing ever. This was back in the EQ days. The graphics were so detailed and amazing. The story was amazing. PvP was going to be amazing. Angels, Demons, and dragons. Playing a fledging dragon with almost no skills and trying to surive to adult hood to become extremely powerful. Then David Allen left. The entire game chagned. Tthe graphics went from realistic to cartoony WoW, and the game turned into a PvE fest. WOW, such a huge let down.
Warhammer - I guess I fell into the trap like most other DAoC vets. I was thinking Warhammer lore and clases with DAoC gameplay. Nope, just Battleground grinding in an attempt to copy WoW's success with them.
Gods & Heroes - Awesome videos, immersive combat. Got into beta and was pysched. There was some bugs, but it was really smooth for the most part. Then the game died from lack of funding. Still kinda hoping this one can be ressurected. However, it may be past it's time. Gladiator and 300 have come and gone. Nothing to really gather a bunch of hype at this point.
Aion - Only because all my friends left to go back to craptastic WoW. They got bored of the grind and didn't want to stick it out until end game. I lasted another couple months and quit because it just wasn't the same without my friends.
Dark and Light - Another game that boasted grand ideas like the original Horizons. I got into beta and played about 30 minutes before I gave up. It's hard to want to help a company improve their beta when the game feels like total crap.
Anyway, that's my mixed bag. I'm sure there are others I'm forgetting. The biggest in the list above was probably Horizons. There was also this game called Fate. I barely remember it now. It had awesome artwork though. World that was invaded by aliens. The world had elves and humans using a mix of technology and magic to fight back the alien swarm.
This has turned into a brilliant thread. Some real honest feelings beeing expresed here. Also some very good points for any visiting devs coming to read up on gamers opinions (I've heard it hapens around here sometimes). Made my choices earlyer just wanted to say what a good read this has been so far. One of the best threads in ages imo.
Agreed on the Hologrind...Of coarse that was why I REALLY enjoyed the CU version of the Game...It took out the Hologrind and added a whole bunch of other stuff I welcomed because I thought the Pre-CU version needed a lot of work...I still don't understand fully the love for Pre-CU...I remember how much Folks complained about it back then, and I know how much Me and quite a few of My Guildies welcomed the CU...I mean...Of coarse Pre-CU was better than the NGE...But to me that's not saying much...It was OK...But nothing worthy of the praise it gets if you ask me...And no one did...
@kyngbill
The original SWG was filled with massive potential, but failed miserably in execution. It took a lot of patience and overlooking issues to enjoy what little did work in the game. Even then soe managed to make the game worse with each patch and ignoring what players wanted.
The combat upgrade was an improvement to some things, but it was not what the game needed or what players asked for. It still was an improvement on things, but never really tapped into the potential of the game and also suffered from the lack of execution that the original game did.
I can see where people enjoyed or didn't enjoy either. They were both fabulous and horrible at the same time.
Raph created a great foundation for a game, but wasn't given the time to finish it. Soe kicking him out of the project right after release was one of the bigger mistakes they made.
Guild Wars, because I found out its not even a MMO.
Crappy Crafting system.
Just didnt replace Runescape for me, so I went to play something else.
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
SWG was, at the begining, the best MMO I ever seen. 30 classes, races, awesome crafting system, players cities, very rare Jedi, planets etc...
NGE has killed this GREAT game.
SONY you're really nuts...
JEDI MASTER SOTANAX
SWG PRE-CU
And another notch on the Star Wars Galaxies bed post. This game truely broke my heart, Or maybee it was Sony that ripped my heart out, tossed it into the street and laughed meniacly as the dogs fought over it!!
Without a doubt, Vanguard. So much potential, made by Brad McQuaid the legend who created Everquest. Lots of ex-EQ fans have been waiting for a true EQ successor. EQ2 isn't it, Vanguard looked like it could be it. But Brad & Sigil co. messed it up really really bad, and missed the chance completely. You simply don't mismanage $30mil and 5 years of game development. People expect a good game at launch when you are given such money & time.
Second runner up... Warhmmer Online. I expected much more from the creator of DAOC. I thought because Mythic gave us DAOC, the game with the best RvR & siege gameplay, that WAR would be just as good if not better. Wrong... it was as if they forgot all knowledge of DAOC when they made WAR. It was as if they forgot how to create a good, effective endgame RvR content. They had the winning formula in DAOC in terms of realm abilities, relics, darkness falls, siege mechanics, class composition, etc.. Then WAR came, we got a very bad endgame RvR gameplay, very bad realm ability choices, very bad itemization in RvR, very bad siege mechanics, and classes just don't seem as cool & balanced as DAOC was.
Those 2 games top my broken hearts
EQ1-AC1-DAOC-FFXI-L2-EQ2-WoW-DDO-GW-LoTR-VG-WAR-GW2-ESO
SWG. No, I didn't play it. But that was the game which has over the years clearly demonstrated how this hobby is filled with with wuzzy losers. This is my opinion and it is not intended to offend anyone.
My first reaction would be to say Vanguard. However, played Vanguard for over 3 years and had an absolute wonderful time... so it's tough to say after all that fun that it broke my heart. I am disappointed that Sony didn't invest more time, money and development into the game.
Warhammer...a criminal waste of probably the best IP available to any MMO
Souless, clunky and ultimately pointless...and as for 'Paul' watch out if he ever tries to sell you a used motor!
WAR hands down. I bought a new rig and got totally into the hype. I remember the adrenaline I felt as servers first opened. The first 2 weeks were a blur as we were all leveling up together. Public quests were full, server queues were crazy long...they kept adding servers...it was all a blur and a rush. Then....we got to endgame. Big let down. People started dropping, my guild disappeared and sadness abounded.
In fact, since then, I've never allowed myself to get excited for a game launch and I am very skeptical of any 'next big thing.'
Ofc..
Star Wars Galaxies.
Sigh!
its a tie for me....Champions Online and now DC Universe Online....I followed the CO site for over a year, got all excited, then I lost my job, I waited with baited breath, maybe, Maybe...someone will put up a "AAA" quality super hero style game without doing the standard sub fee/cash shop model, or at least come up with options I can afford...nope...
As if that wasn't enough, CO offered lifetime subs for the game but only up until game launch...(for those of you not familliar with the game's history)...
Now there's DCU Online; once again I waited to see if SOE would offer something other than the sub fee with cash shop model...nothing doing.
Essentially, if you want to be in cape and tights, you have to commit to a sub fee and cash shop. I'm one of those in the what 10% that are still unemployed more or less since 2008, Companies that produce Super Hero MMO titles only care about their bottom lines, not their players.
Thank goodness for Guild Wars and GW2.
for me it was EQOA, was my first MMO played it for years, then SONY stated they would never support the HUD for the PS2 to be used with EQOA so they would never be able to actually have ANY real updates to the game. after that the game started to die when people realised nothing new was coming to the game.I too eventually quit ,tho there is still a few die hards playing the game that has had no real updates since like 03 or 04 0.o. they've tweaked the classes but thats it.
World of Warcraft (The burning crusade):
Blizzard just said: all the epic dungeons you did and got and the epic gear you got down the trash , and I know MMORPG should be more about than just the gear but I think this is what made WoW from a perfect game into a broken game, and Blizzard a company which cares about gameplay first into a company that cares about money first ( I know it was all illusion in the first place but that is how I felt in vanilla wow)
Second:
WAR - I thought it was the next step in revolution of mmos after WoW , boy was I wrong - the first in the list to try to recreate the world of warcraft experience turns out to be a huge BullCr4p
World of Warcraft is a proof that MMORPG quality should affect schedule/budget and not the other way around.
STO
And yet another person who does not read the topic tittle.
Most people have moved on, but since it's asked in this topic it's what people have to say about it, shame some of you seem to have missed what this topic is about, regardless most of us have already moved on.
Yeah I stated what I did too be more humorous then anything. Dry humor fail. All good games die eventually......each progressing and showing different aspects possible for MMO's too touch on. SWG perhaps went in a direction that wasn't beneficial for it self or its customers. The developers behind many MMO's are gamers themselves and many have probably played SWG or at least followed its life line. I think it did give attention to key points developers should look at when altering a game. Every genre or franchise has some type of learning curve, this was the MMO equivalent. I believe developers took something away from the SWG fiasco that bettered the games they made and will continue too show up in their works today.
AC2 - I loved AC1 and was hoping that AC2 would be just the same game with much better graphics.
SWG - Nuff said.
Vanguard- Played from Beta, the game was good , but mismanaged and run all to hell. Shame. It should have been big.
Dark and Light - Everything a fantasy mmorpg should be. At least that was what was promised. Almost preordered, but I wasn't able due to extremely lagging server. Guess that was a good thing.
Wish- Doubt most people remember this but I think a certain editor does. It was good, almost good enough to replace UO. Then it died very suddenly.
The Stranger: It's what people know about themselves inside that makes 'em afraid.
Warhammer Online dissapointed me the most I'd say.Was really looking forward to it for a long time and thought it would be a success.I never thought it would be anywhere near as successful as a lot of other people though, but still thought it would have over 400K subs after a year.Pre order it and played it right when servers opened only to discover it was buggy and boring.Classes and combat where boring and the game looked like it had less then a million dollar development budget.
It's a tossup between AoC, Warhammer, and Vanguard for me. All of those games had potential yet all of them were released way before they should have been and were horribly managed.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.