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The Death of Terri Shiavo
Dekron
Member UncommonPosts: 7,359
After 13 days disconnected from her feeding tube, she has died.
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=519&ncid=519&e=1&u=/ap/20050331/ap_on_re_us/brain_damaged_woman_86
I am glad she is finally able to rest and get her wish.
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
About time, I sure as hell would not want to live in that state. RIP Terri and may your pain be over.
Yep, I just woke up to this. Very sad, although I think the courts made the right decision. I really cant find anyone that would want to live in a PVS.
Oh hell no! She died......I was just reading in the paper how Rev. Jackson had just joined the parents to lend his support.....I was pushing to keep this woman alive. As a parent as well I can feel their pain. No parent wants to bury their child...my own mother had to do it and it was very hard for us to move on. Hopefully she can again find peace.
To the parents of Mrs. Shiavo:
I believe God accepts a soul back into his kingdom when it shines at it's brightest moment. When you forfill your plan from him it burns bright and gives off a light that effects us all in one way or another. God's plan in her life was achieved without her even speaking a word and her light will be felt by all for many years to come. It is at that exact time when God called for his child to return to him.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
I just can't seem to understand why people wanted to keep her alive. Her wishes were to die and I believed Michael. When you think about it, who would want to be kept alive without chance of recovery and live in a state such as that. She was like that for 15 years, there was no chance. Several doctors examined and tested her. The only doctor that said otherwise was a christian doctor that sat by her bed for 10 minutes. He didn't do any tests or examinations. He just observed her.
I agree. Im not why people feel that she wants to live. She would have dead naturally, if it wasnt for the machine(yet the religious right want to keep here alive with science/the enemy instead of trusting God?). She is never going to recover, and she is but a shell. I think if we believe in afterlife, it has to be better than just sitting there. Straving her is inhumane, but using the leathal injection or something like that would make it faster and less painful. It is my opinion that Terri's family do not have her best interests at heart; I believe that at best, they are unwilling to accept the reality that their daughter is a vegetable, and are thus unwilling to let her die naturally.
Would you like to live like this:
Terri Schiavo suffered a heart attack due to an undiagnosed potassium deficiency. As a result, she suffered irreversable brain damage due to lack of oxygen, leaving her unable to perform even the most basic motor functions like swallowing. Because of this, she cannot feed herself, nor be fed in a normal fashion--she must be fed through a feeding tube inserted directly into her stomache. The diagnosis of Terri Schaivo has not changed in over 10 years, nor has she responded to any kind of therapy--she exists in a persistent vegitative state, and will not recover--the majority of doctors investigating the case concur with this diagnosis, though the doctors appointed by Terri's family do not--though they can provide no sound medical evidence to contradict the consensus.
If she wanted to die, and her husband knew it, why didn't he tell anyone this until seven years after her "accident?" I don't believe him. I think he is a lying sack of ****. And I think he got away with murder with the help of the courts.
You make it sound like he woke up one morning and decided to pull the plug. How callous and moronic to think such a thing.
He was hoping her state would improve. It never did. He became a nurse to better care for her. Eventually the overwhelming evidence (Scientific and medical) indicated that she was in a PERSISTENT VEGETATIVE STATE...(e.g. BRAIN-DEAD.) He came to terms and decided to let he be at peace. We have no idea whether he told the Schaivo's or not.
How long should she have been kept alive at her parents (NOT HER LEGAL GUARDIAN'S) wishes? 30 years, 50 years? Of her wasting away like that.
She was in a tragic condition and we all mourn her passing. But where were you a couple months ago? There is a law that GW BUSH signed and enacted in TEXAS that allowed HOSPITALS to unplug a sick child if they HAVE NO INSURANCE or CAN'T PAY for care. The only stipulation is you have 10 days to move the patient to another hospital if they are willing to take them. Hospitals are businesses...who wants a no-pay?
So a couple months ago a poor baby died, even though the MOTHER insisted on trying to keep her child alive. HMMM? I guess it is OK to unplug someone if they are POOR and/or BLACK?
For those who feel that it was wrong to unplug Terri Schaivo, I respect your opinion. For those of you who think your personal religious beliefs trump 23 + court decisions on this very subject...you need to realize we live in a CIVIL society, not a THEOCRATIC one.
We are a nation of LAWS, without it, we have pure anarchy. But then, maybe that's what these folks want? I dunno.
Anthrorob
There was no "plug" to pull. I would have had no problem pulling a plug. What they did was stop feeding her and bar anyone from trying to feed her through normal means. The doctors said it was dangerous to try and give her food and water through normal means because she might choke. What a joke. They are starving the woman to death, but don't want to risk her choking. As for me, I would rather choke to death than to be starved and dehydrated for two weeks.
Comparing her case to pulling the plug on someone would be like pulling the plug on someone's respirator, and then putting a plastic bag over their head so they couldn't get air through normal means.
As for her husband, he said after her accident that he didn't know what her wishes would be. Then after seven years, he seemed to recall that she wanted to die (funny thing is, they were only married for six years before her "accident"). I believe he tried to murder his wife and got the courts to help him finish the job.
This is just the overture or the steping stone of much sinister and massive scale Eugenics being proposed in the sight of dissidents who are, by themselves, the very object of such proposals.
There was one time in history something of this nature has thematically been proposed and executed without any delay inbetween.
See this link on Hitler's Eugenics
http://www.orthodoxytoday.org/articles2/RayEugenics.shtml
When Hitler proposed Eugenics, he emphasized that his social engineering means were integral part of his socialistic ideal.
Hitler's Eugenics (and his mind control technique) went like this:
1. THESIS (Proposition of problem):
- Scarcity of social means to accomodate all social security recipients.
- The status quo of juridical system. Hitler proposed the change of the law.
- The union of Apathetic, Sympathetic and Closely Affined state of mind.
- Ambiguity in proprietorship of genes, disabled agents.
2. ANTITHESIS (Reaction):
- Unhingement and advertisement of such unhingement which could otherwise be unnoticed.
- Group trauma.
- Segregation or division of three psychological states of mind: apathy, sympathy, and closed affinity.
Once these three separate mind templates are prepared, each competing with one another, one or multiple John Does can initiate programming.
- Group Fatalism, Cynicism, Fear of Order.
3. SYNTHESIS (Solution):
- Hitler's "Final Solution": Eugenics i.e. Extermination of disabled, mentally challenged, gays, gypsies, and jews.
The only difference that distinguishes now and then is the former is closed loop while the later is open loop.
"When the society removes the very last standing wall of defense protecting the least amongst us, the subsequent decline of such society is surely guaranteed."
Sorry but the only part the LAW played in this was upholding the husband's PERSONAL wishes. Congress has no right to interfere with the decisions that families make and it was the PARENTS that tried to get the laws to void what her hubband's wishes were, it took them 15 years to prove nothing and the courts said, "You know what, remove the plug and put the ball back in the hands of the people involved." Only sad thing was it took the courts 15 years to bud out.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
This has nothing to do with race, religion or Eugenics. All that happened was she had a will to die , so they took out her articifical feeding tube(no drugs, no killing). Hitler wanted to kill healthy people due to religion, religion, mentally challenged people- this has nothing to do with living 15 years with no chance of recovery in PVS. Then again, your the one that said "Hope the world blows up so I blow the fuck off this planet"
I'm actually quite scared that anyone can think that the mercy killing of a woman who should have been dead a long, long time ago is comparable to the Genicide of millions upon millions of innocent people.
Shiavo wasn't disabled, mentally challenged, gay, a gypsies, or a jew, she was a mind trapped inside a corpse.
This whole thing is a tragic, yet extremely rare occurance, and to say it will start anything like the Eugenics of the Nazi's is quite laughable.
Really- can any of the people that wanted Terri to live, live like her?
The better question is why would anyone would want to live in PVS for over 15 years with 0 chance of recovery. The part of the brain that makes you who you are is gone( the cerebral cortex)- you are a soul trapped in your body. Not being able to communicate, feeding threw a tube, crapping yourself, sitting in a room for years....... Nobody should have to live like that.
Whats so funny, is that the biggest supporter of "culture of life policy" is involved in a war killing hundreds of thousands, believes in the death pentaly(even though I support this, I dont brag about a "culture of life"), and was involved in a ruling that said that a boy could have treatment due to money?
I don't mean to start an argument..but can you show me that that was her wish? You cannot.
Sure I say it was murder, and sure I am awaiting the results of the autopsy to prove that Michael Schiavo was an abusive husband.
http://www.facebook.com/murtb
Even if he was, a autopsy of the brain isnt going to show anything.
I don't mean to start an argument..but can you show me that that was her wish? You cannot.
Sure I say it was murder, and sure I am awaiting the results of the autopsy to prove that Michael Schiavo was an abusive husband.
Only if the coroner is a typical fascist conservative................politics are stupid
Her wish according to her husbands statement. I am going by everyone I have ever spoken to about the subject who have said, no, they wouldn;t want to be kept alive like that. And what possible proof do they have that he was abusive, other than the fact the parents tried to state that as a cause to get the tube reinserted.
I have a question for ya though murt. Would you have been for her tube removal if bush was? Just curious.
Apparently, even without a cerebral cortex, she would have been A OK...(According to these folks) perhaps they came to this conclusion by looking at certain individuals obsessed with saving her "life."
The effort to sidetrack the real issue speaks volumes.
FACT: Terri Schaivo Was IRREVERSIBLY in a PERSISTENT VEGETATIVE STATE
FACT: Her Cerebral Cortex was destroyed and the space filled will spinal fluid.
FACT: She had no higher functions what soever.
What we had here was not a mind trapped ina body like one poster suggested, but a body trapped WITHOUT a mind.
As for the efforts to suggest letting a brain dead individual die equaling Hitler, I have t say this:
First, you suggest since the NAZI's used the term national socialists, that they were socialists. This is in fact not true. They were fascists and not actual socialists (interestingly, the one thing Fascists feared most of all were real Socialists and Communists." I recommend you go get a real book from the library to learn more about the differences.
From Columbia's Encyclopedia 6th ed. Bartleby's site: http://www.bartleby.com/65/na/NatlSoci.html you will see what I mean.
Second. Hitler realized that manipulating the public through propaganda was the most effective way to control his people and incite them to do the most nefarious and horrendous things. Watch FOX NEWS lately? (AKA FAUX NEWS.) See Goebbels :http://www.bartleby.com/65/go/Goebbels.html
Sadly Schaivo was in a vegetative state and died. Some argue this is wrong, go ahead. While you are up in arms about this "issue" our soldiers are being sent into an untenable war and coming home to reduced or eliminated health care and need it even more (see the New England Journal of Medicine article http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/short/351/1/13 which shows that estimates for Vietnam vets having 2% to 10% Post traumatic stress disorder while current Iraq-Afgani War vets have 15%-17%, not including active duty, just those de-mobilized...yow!), our social security is being dismantled below us and the nation slides ever closer to a fascist police state.
How about we try to save the approximately 13,000 children that die from malnutrition in the world EACH DAY!!!! http://www.worldhunger.org/articles/04/2004totheed.htm
It really is time for some of you to Cash your REALITY CHECKS now!
Anthrorob
Her wish according to her husbands statement. I am going by everyone I have ever spoken to about the subject who have said, no, they wouldn;t want to be kept alive like that. And what possible proof do they have that he was abusive, other than the fact the parents tried to state that as a cause to get the tube reinserted.
I have a question for ya though murt. Would you have been for her tube removal if bush was? Just curious.
No. I wouldn't. I'm in all ways pro life, I don't take after and conform...well politcally, since I do conform socially. As a matter of fact I should be on your side, that being because Jesse Jackson is saying for her to be kept alive. You see?
And you're going by a statement. There's your argument? a statement? Watch what the autopsy will reveal. you'll be surprised.
Michael Schiavo isn't the "kind caring awwww so generous" husband you think he was. Most likely he wasn't after her best interests. My view is that he did'nt want to file the divorce papers because of his "kind caring awww so generous" reputation would have disspated. Many things on top of that..he was abusive, he was having affairs, it goes on and on.
Frankly I'm not going to argue much like I used to before the elections. I'm on Paxil now...I realize that I cannot change people's minds as much as I would like to. I have my opinion. You have yours. Sure I'd love to "enlighten" you, but I really don't see the need...you won't accept the light.
http://www.facebook.com/murtb
Wether he decided to give her life or not, her husband is a sick f***. The parents, after pleading him for her life, were banned from the room by Michael in Terri's last moments. Why cant they see her? What the hell was wrong with Michael.
I know I sounded republican pro-life, but Im a liberal, yet I still cant seem to put any logic in banning her parents from the room.
As for the fact to let her live or get rid of the feeding tube... thats a tough one.
The thing about this case that burns me up is this:
This wasn't a simple "pulling the plug." It wasn't as simple as turning off her breathing regulator, or turning off her blood oxygen supply machine. They literally took her feeding tube out of her....
Whatever way you want to look at it: Terri starved to death. There was nothing humane about it and no matter how long any of us can debate how "brain dead she was" the fact still remained; she starved to death
Pulling the plug with a brain dead person ....I can see. Starving them to death for 13 days? I cannot. Also, why in the world did Terri's "ex-husband" did not allow her parents in the room during her final moments? How friggin barbaric is that??
RIP Terri.
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
Another week and this media orgie will be over. I was getting so sick of it. This stuff happens everyday and if there was less media attention, they would have done lethal injection, but noooo, let the media feed on the court hearings and state requests. My lord, some people think this kind of situation happens once in a lifetime.
"Whoever controls the media controls the mind..-'Jim Morrison"
"When decorum is repression, the only dignity free men have is to speak out." ~Abbie Hoffman
I was suprised how long this got on the news for and how many people were shocked. Yeah, it's tragic. But this was just one person, how many thousands die every single day? And this woman was already suffering, she was a vegtable (metephorically speaking).