It just drove two of it's closest competitors to adapt a free to play model.
This is just sad.
I wish another developer/publisher would come out with something and stick with it in the face of the WoW community dismissing it is "not as good as WoW"
I wonder sometimes, the amount of complaining and raging on the WoW forums about how bad the newest update is, or how about Tuessday maintenance? How about class balance? How about character customization? If you'd read the whining on the forums you'd wonder if WoW was really such a great game after all.
Why do these guys put so much effort into developing a vast, explorable game world, and then implement a system that allows all players to just sit around in a main city waiting for a "que"? The community of the game has vanished. The point of the game seems to have become gear based, nothing more. The graphics aren't that great.
Why is everyone so stuck on how awesome WoW is? It's really not that cool, guys. It just had a head start on everything else and years to evolve. I'm sick of hearing about the next "WoW Killer". I just want a new game that won't f-ing give up because it doesn't beat WoW in the first year. I want the rabid WoW fanitics to shut up and leave a game alone if they don't like it.
Too many people jump on a new game, see that it's not perfect, and bail. Ok, you just left - how many others left? How do you expect a new game to get better and evolve if you guys don't nurture it with money? You think developers and publisher will make a game better for free? Stop giving up on the new games and KEEP PLAYING THEM if you think they have potential. Otherwise they crash and burn just like you smugly predicted. Are you happy that WoW is a monopoly on the gaming industry?
I'm enjoying WAR. Theres not a lot of people, but there are enough to be able to catch some big rvr battles. The game graphics and world aren't perfect, but they're good enough. I'd like to point out that if theres something you don't like about a game, tell the dev's. But realize they might not be able to do anything about fixing it...because too many people gave up on the game and took the money away. So don't put all the blame on the developers or publishers.
We don't live in a market that accepts sub standard releases anymore. If a new game release in poor condition there is no reason for players to stick around and hope things get better. No one wants to pay for poor quality with nothing but empty promises of a future filled with rainbows and unicorns.
Wow doesn't dominate the market, because it is such an awesome game. It dominates, because the rest of the market is filled with incomplete, buggy, unfinished and poorly designed games. There are millions of people looking for a new game to swarm to and the only thing that is preventing that is developers not giving people what they want. It really is that simple.
When we start seeing more developers releasing finshing games with interesting gameplay, then the market will even out again like it was pre-wow.
It just drove two of it's closest competitors to adapt a free to play model.
This is just sad.
I wish another developer/publisher would come out with something and stick with it in the face of the WoW community dismissing it is "not as good as WoW"
I wonder sometimes, the amount of complaining and raging on the WoW forums about how bad the newest update is, or how about Tuessday maintenance? How about class balance? How about character customization? If you'd read the whining on the forums you'd wonder if WoW was really such a great game after all.
Why do these guys put so much effort into developing a vast, explorable game world, and then implement a system that allows all players to just sit around in a main city waiting for a "que"? The community of the game has vanished. The point of the game seems to have become gear based, nothing more. The graphics aren't that great.
Why is everyone so stuck on how awesome WoW is? It's really not that cool, guys. It just had a head start on everything else and years to evolve. I'm sick of hearing about the next "WoW Killer". I just want a new game that won't f-ing give up because it doesn't beat WoW in the first year. I want the rabid WoW fanitics to shut up and leave a game alone if they don't like it.
Too many people jump on a new game, see that it's not perfect, and bail. Ok, you just left - how many others left? How do you expect a new game to get better and evolve if you guys don't nurture it with money? You think developers and publisher will make a game better for free? Stop giving up on the new games and KEEP PLAYING THEM if you think they have potential. Otherwise they crash and burn just like you smugly predicted. Are you happy that WoW is a monopoly on the gaming industry?
I'm enjoying WAR. Theres not a lot of people, but there are enough to be able to catch some big rvr battles. The game graphics and world aren't perfect, but they're good enough. I'd like to point out that if theres something you don't like about a game, tell the dev's. But realize they might not be able to do anything about fixing it...because too many people gave up on the game and took the money away. So don't put all the blame on the developers or publishers.
I am glad to see at least SOMEONE in this community seems to have a valid argument. Just because new games don't hit 11.5 million players in the first year the WoW people call it a "failure" but they do not seem to realise that it took their game 5 years to get those kind of numbers. People need to stop calling everything a "WoW clone" just because it has all the basic MMORPG elements to it and actually give other games a chance. If a game doesn't give you a free high level character once you reach a certain level, or hand you "rare" gear from every other drop, it doesn't make it a "grindfest" , just a challenge that evidentally the WoW community does not seem to be up to.
try losing a really expensive ship in Eve online that took you months to get and train to buy really expensive add ons for, only to lose it because of a stupid mistake and have to start all over again and then we'll talk.
"Also I'd like to point the release of Cataclysm being our best expansion yet for World of Warcraft. Although an exact release date has not yet been announced, we are on track to launch the expansion by the end of the year. As with all Blizzard games though, we won't release until it's ready.
Playing the beta I don't think blizzard will be able to get cataclysm ready by years end. There is a lot of work that still needs to be done.
try losing a really expensive ship in Eve online that took you months to get and train to buy really expensive add ons for, only to lose it because of a stupid mistake and have to start all over again and then we'll talk.
The only stupid mistake is wasting time on EVE in the first place.
All those memories will be lost in time, like tears in the rain.
"Also I'd like to point the release of Cataclysm being our best expansion yet for World of Warcraft. Although an exact release date has not yet been announced, we are on track to launch the expansion by the end of the year. As with all Blizzard games though, we won't release until it's ready.
Playing the beta I don't think blizzard will be able to get cataclysm ready by years end. There is a lot of work that still needs to be done.
But they also have a LOT of people working on the expansion, so maybe that balances things out
I saw the Massively live feed yesterday about the walk through CATA, it sure looks like a lot still needs to be done though, especially if the level of polish needs to be achieved that WoW generally has.
About "Hard MMO's": I can only think of EQ being hard and challenging - to the point of unforgiving - compared to WoW.
To a lesser degree, EQ2 and GW were no easy walk in the park from time to time when I played them when they were first released, before expansions.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
try losing a really expensive ship in Eve online that took you months to get and train to buy really expensive add ons for, only to lose it because of a stupid mistake and have to start all over again and then we'll talk.
I've never played Eve but that sounds more like a retarded time sink than a challenge that requires skill.
I don't see what is wrong designing content most of the player base can experience. Catering to a small hardcore minority is not only a bad business model but its retarded. Those players get discontent easily and burn through content faster than it can be made anyway. If I am a developer I want my players to experience the content. Also, I'm pretty sure most people who complain WoW has no challenge have not downed LK 25 Hard mode without the 30% buff. The challenge is there if you seek it.
I think a lot of people hate on WoW because raids have become more casual and they don't feel special in their purps anymore.
All that said, WoW dominates because Blizzard seems to be the only developer who actually seems to wait until its finished before releasing content, most of the time anyway. Every MMO that comes out is half finished and with tons of bugs. There is a lot of interest in MMOs but incompetent developers hold the genre back.
Originally posted by Palebane I don't trust anything Blizzard or Activision says, especially with regards to sub numbers.
. They are a publically held company. If they lie, they go to jail. Plus the shareholders would sue them into non-existence. . If you have proof of Blizzard lying, you could make a lot of money by selling your info to lawyers.
Originally posted by Palebane I don't trust anything Blizzard or Activision says, especially with regards to sub numbers.
Don't trust the sub numbers, trust the revenue. BTW since this is a meeting with their shareholders they won't be that stupid to make up numbers, they are cold and hard facts. Making them up would be more trouble then worth.
why do people get agitated by WoW's numbers. It simply means its popular- it doesn't mean its your cup of tea.
Yeah I kinda don't get it either. I mean over the past 11 years I've played so many games. It doesn't mean I hold allegiance to one game, I move from game to game, often times I go back to them off and on. While I'm playing WoW now, doesn't mean I'm a fanboy. In fact I'd rather be playing EQ and will continue to wish for an old school remake of EQ1/AC1/DAOC.
Either way Blizzard deserves props for finding ways to stay up there as a top gaming company. You don't have to like their games to know they are making millions of people happy. As for people tossing phrases like "harder games", I've played a lot of games and I really don't see tedium = harder. It's an illusion we used to accept back in the days. But apparently more people have grown out of that today.
As for Eve, I think it's great Eve is catering very well to their own playerbase. But people need to stop telling others to play Eve to experience a harder game, because not everybody wants to fly a frigging spaceship in a MMO. If you enjoy it, great, wonderful, go have fun with it. But it's not my cup of tea.
We don't live in a market that accepts sub standard releases anymore. If a new game release in poor condition there is no reason for players to stick around and hope things get better. No one wants to pay for poor quality with nothing but empty promises of a future filled with rainbows and unicorns
....
When we start seeing more developers releasing finshing games with interesting gameplay, then the market will even out again like it was pre-wow.
My point is this: We won't get anything good, unless people stop trying to match up a newly released game against WoW.
"Worldwide subscription numbers for World of Warcraft are holding steady at more than 11.5 million players despite the struggling economy and pressure on European currencies through the first half of the year."
Considering this is the least profitable quarter for World of Warcraft since Q3 2008 and they dropped to sales close to those in 2007, despite huge additional western sales from WoWs new Cash Shop in range of several Million $, not even currency issues could excuse anymore, I chuckle at that attempt to distract from the fact the player numbers are mainly inflated (back again) due to the month long huge hype and PR campaign in the rather unprofitable China where even on your Aion fansites some Lichking pops up here and there now and to push the drop in the beginning of the year on some "past" European economic issues, rather than Western numbers simply steadily dropping back to BC levels, before Chinese numbers could cover them all up again.
But thanks for the laugh Zorn. Waiting for your usual complety unmissleading review on NCSofts report.
WoW is the most popular P2P mmo, get the hell over it, and play your god damn Aion.
In the west maybe. But seriously, Blizzard LOVES to inflate their numbers. I call BS.
We don't live in a market that accepts sub standard releases anymore. If a new game release in poor condition there is no reason for players to stick around and hope things get better. No one wants to pay for poor quality with nothing but empty promises of a future filled with rainbows and unicorns
....
When we start seeing more developers releasing finshing games with interesting gameplay, then the market will even out again like it was pre-wow.
My point is this: We won't get anything good, unless people stop trying to match up a newly released game against WoW.
You're saying it wrong:
We won't get anything good unless developers stop trying to copy WoW and start making innovative games.
A lot of games just feel the same as WoW (Up to an extent), so it's only natural to compare the two.
"Worldwide subscription numbers for World of Warcraft are holding steady at more than 11.5 million players despite the struggling economy and pressure on European currencies through the first half of the year."
Considering this is the least profitable quarter for World of Warcraft since Q3 2008 and they dropped to sales close to those in 2007, despite huge additional western sales from WoWs new Cash Shop in range of several Million $, not even currency issues could excuse anymore, I chuckle at that attempt to distract from the fact the player numbers are mainly inflated (back again) due to the month long huge hype and PR campaign in the rather unprofitable China where even on your Aion fansites some Lichking pops up here and there now and to push the drop in the beginning of the year on some "past" European economic issues, rather than Western numbers simply steadily dropping back to BC levels, before Chinese numbers could cover them all up again.
But thanks for the laugh Zorn. Waiting for your usual complety unmissleading review on NCSofts report.
WoW is the most popular P2P mmo, get the hell over it, and play your god damn Aion.
In the west maybe. But seriously, Blizzard LOVES to inflate their numbers. I call BS.
Not trying to be a fanboy or anything, but how about providing some proof, instead of blatently calling BS?
We don't live in a market that accepts sub standard releases anymore. If a new game release in poor condition there is no reason for players to stick around and hope things get better. No one wants to pay for poor quality with nothing but empty promises of a future filled with rainbows and unicorns
....
When we start seeing more developers releasing finshing games with interesting gameplay, then the market will even out again like it was pre-wow.
My point is this: We won't get anything good, unless people stop trying to match up a newly released game against WoW.
Imagine saying the same thing about any other product. A car, a cell phone, cable television.
Competition is what should drive quality up, not down. We will not get more good games until developers stop cutting corners and releasing their products prematurely and that is really what has plagued this genre since its birth.
Giving developers money for incomplete games only encourages them to repeat that behavior. It doesn't send the message that they need to improve.
We don't live in a market that accepts sub standard releases anymore. If a new game release in poor condition there is no reason for players to stick around and hope things get better. No one wants to pay for poor quality with nothing but empty promises of a future filled with rainbows and unicorns
....
When we start seeing more developers releasing finshing games with interesting gameplay, then the market will even out again like it was pre-wow.
My point is this: We won't get anything good, unless people stop trying to match up a newly released game against WoW.
You're saying it wrong:
We won't get anything good unless developers stop trying to copy WoW and start making innovative games.
A lot of games just feel the same as WoW (Up to an extent), so it's only natural to compare the two.
the only reason people say that everything seems like WoW is because they havent played games that came out before it that WoW took things from.
I don't trust anything Blizzard or Activision says, especially with regards to sub numbers.
.
They are a publically held company. If they lie, they go to jail. Plus the shareholders would sue them into non-existence.
.
If you have proof of Blizzard lying, you could make a lot of money by selling your info to lawyers.
You trust the world to much. If you have enough $$$ you can lie all you want. You can't trust anything these days.
um... yes, no maybe?
Look, we all know that there are established companies that are publicly traded that have lied. Arthur Anderson and Enron? Fannie Mae? Adelphia?
But it doesn't usually do well to hide things from investors and regulators. Companies will do this I'm sure. And even though I've seen a considerable "stepping up" by companies and organizations in the accountability department I'm sure that somewhere down the line there will be another scandal. Always is.
But at some point we have to start accepting things at face value. One can't live their life putting their money under the mattress and living in a shack in the woods. Well, people do that but do we want to be those people?
More than likely those numbers are "reasonably" correct. Even if they aren't I think it would be hard to say that WoW is not the huge player in the arena.
And in the end, investors are coming becauese of those numbers. If the company becomes over valued there will be a correction.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
try losing a really expensive ship in Eve online that took you months to get and train to buy really expensive add ons for, only to lose it because of a stupid mistake and have to start all over again and then we'll talk.
Thats called a time sink kiddo. Training skills in Eve is not HARD, since it actually takes almost zero input from you. Click button... wait a few weeks, click button again. Thats it. Making ISK is almost the same. Mining doesn't take any brains. You can do it while watching American Idol and surfing the web in windowed mode, while keeping your second or third account logged in guarding your mining ship if you ever even get into a fight=) Buying and selling on the market is no more challenging than buying and selling on the AH. Its basic watching of trends. Buy low, sell high. Obtaining EVERYTHING in Eve just requires time, LOTS of time. The longer you play, the more skills you have and the more money you obtain. Destroying a corp...THAT's hard. Buying an expensive ship...all it takes is a hell of lot of time training and earning ISK which also just takes time. But it sure isn't hard unless you call having the patience to tolerate the snails pace, hard=)
Compare that with trying to beat a hard mode dungeon or placing first in the arena? You can do the dungeons 1000s of times, but if you can't do it, you just can't do it and MOST people can't complete the hardest raids. As far as arenas go, there can be only 1 BEST player/team and if you think thats easy, you're whacked.
Comments
Ah.....nothing like a little quality WOW-hate in the morning to wake you up.
Currently Playing: DAOC Uthgard
Previously Played: UO, DAOC, Shadowbane, AC2, SWG, Horizons, COX, WOW, EQ2, LOTRO, AOC, WAR, Vanguard, Rift, SWTOR, ESO, GW2.
This is just sad.
I wish another developer/publisher would come out with something and stick with it in the face of the WoW community dismissing it is "not as good as WoW"
I wonder sometimes, the amount of complaining and raging on the WoW forums about how bad the newest update is, or how about Tuessday maintenance? How about class balance? How about character customization? If you'd read the whining on the forums you'd wonder if WoW was really such a great game after all.
Why do these guys put so much effort into developing a vast, explorable game world, and then implement a system that allows all players to just sit around in a main city waiting for a "que"? The community of the game has vanished. The point of the game seems to have become gear based, nothing more. The graphics aren't that great.
Why is everyone so stuck on how awesome WoW is? It's really not that cool, guys. It just had a head start on everything else and years to evolve. I'm sick of hearing about the next "WoW Killer". I just want a new game that won't f-ing give up because it doesn't beat WoW in the first year. I want the rabid WoW fanitics to shut up and leave a game alone if they don't like it.
Too many people jump on a new game, see that it's not perfect, and bail. Ok, you just left - how many others left? How do you expect a new game to get better and evolve if you guys don't nurture it with money? You think developers and publisher will make a game better for free? Stop giving up on the new games and KEEP PLAYING THEM if you think they have potential. Otherwise they crash and burn just like you smugly predicted. Are you happy that WoW is a monopoly on the gaming industry?
I'm enjoying WAR. Theres not a lot of people, but there are enough to be able to catch some big rvr battles. The game graphics and world aren't perfect, but they're good enough. I'd like to point out that if theres something you don't like about a game, tell the dev's. But realize they might not be able to do anything about fixing it...because too many people gave up on the game and took the money away. So don't put all the blame on the developers or publishers.
We don't live in a market that accepts sub standard releases anymore. If a new game release in poor condition there is no reason for players to stick around and hope things get better. No one wants to pay for poor quality with nothing but empty promises of a future filled with rainbows and unicorns.
Wow doesn't dominate the market, because it is such an awesome game. It dominates, because the rest of the market is filled with incomplete, buggy, unfinished and poorly designed games. There are millions of people looking for a new game to swarm to and the only thing that is preventing that is developers not giving people what they want. It really is that simple.
When we start seeing more developers releasing finshing games with interesting gameplay, then the market will even out again like it was pre-wow.
I am glad to see at least SOMEONE in this community seems to have a valid argument. Just because new games don't hit 11.5 million players in the first year the WoW people call it a "failure" but they do not seem to realise that it took their game 5 years to get those kind of numbers. People need to stop calling everything a "WoW clone" just because it has all the basic MMORPG elements to it and actually give other games a chance. If a game doesn't give you a free high level character once you reach a certain level, or hand you "rare" gear from every other drop, it doesn't make it a "grindfest" , just a challenge that evidentally the WoW community does not seem to be up to.
Care to name these "hard" fantasy mmos that will be to difficult for a wow player?
try losing a really expensive ship in Eve online that took you months to get and train to buy really expensive add ons for, only to lose it because of a stupid mistake and have to start all over again and then we'll talk.
Playing the beta I don't think blizzard will be able to get cataclysm ready by years end. There is a lot of work that still needs to be done.
The only stupid mistake is wasting time on EVE in the first place.
All those memories will be lost in time, like tears in the rain.
But they also have a LOT of people working on the expansion, so maybe that balances things out
I saw the Massively live feed yesterday about the walk through CATA, it sure looks like a lot still needs to be done though, especially if the level of polish needs to be achieved that WoW generally has.
About "Hard MMO's": I can only think of EQ being hard and challenging - to the point of unforgiving - compared to WoW.
To a lesser degree, EQ2 and GW were no easy walk in the park from time to time when I played them when they were first released, before expansions.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I don't trust anything Blizzard or Activision says, especially with regards to sub numbers.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
I've never played Eve but that sounds more like a retarded time sink than a challenge that requires skill.
I don't see what is wrong designing content most of the player base can experience. Catering to a small hardcore minority is not only a bad business model but its retarded. Those players get discontent easily and burn through content faster than it can be made anyway. If I am a developer I want my players to experience the content. Also, I'm pretty sure most people who complain WoW has no challenge have not downed LK 25 Hard mode without the 30% buff. The challenge is there if you seek it.
I think a lot of people hate on WoW because raids have become more casual and they don't feel special in their purps anymore.
All that said, WoW dominates because Blizzard seems to be the only developer who actually seems to wait until its finished before releasing content, most of the time anyway. Every MMO that comes out is half finished and with tons of bugs. There is a lot of interest in MMOs but incompetent developers hold the genre back.
They are a publically held company. If they lie, they go to jail. Plus the shareholders would sue them into non-existence.
.
If you have proof of Blizzard lying, you could make a lot of money by selling your info to lawyers.
Well shave my back and call me an elf! -- Oghren
Don't trust the sub numbers, trust the revenue. BTW since this is a meeting with their shareholders they won't be that stupid to make up numbers, they are cold and hard facts. Making them up would be more trouble then worth.
why do people get agitated by WoW's numbers. It simply means its popular- it doesn't mean its your cup of tea.
Yeah I kinda don't get it either. I mean over the past 11 years I've played so many games. It doesn't mean I hold allegiance to one game, I move from game to game, often times I go back to them off and on. While I'm playing WoW now, doesn't mean I'm a fanboy. In fact I'd rather be playing EQ and will continue to wish for an old school remake of EQ1/AC1/DAOC.
Either way Blizzard deserves props for finding ways to stay up there as a top gaming company. You don't have to like their games to know they are making millions of people happy. As for people tossing phrases like "harder games", I've played a lot of games and I really don't see tedium = harder. It's an illusion we used to accept back in the days. But apparently more people have grown out of that today.
As for Eve, I think it's great Eve is catering very well to their own playerbase. But people need to stop telling others to play Eve to experience a harder game, because not everybody wants to fly a frigging spaceship in a MMO. If you enjoy it, great, wonderful, go have fun with it. But it's not my cup of tea.
EQ1-AC1-DAOC-FFXI-L2-EQ2-WoW-DDO-GW-LoTR-VG-WAR-GW2-ESO
My point is this: We won't get anything good, unless people stop trying to match up a newly released game against WoW.
In the west maybe. But seriously, Blizzard LOVES to inflate their numbers. I call BS.
You're saying it wrong:
We won't get anything good unless developers stop trying to copy WoW and start making innovative games.
A lot of games just feel the same as WoW (Up to an extent), so it's only natural to compare the two.
Not trying to be a fanboy or anything, but how about providing some proof, instead of blatently calling BS?
You trust the world to much. If you have enough $$$ you can lie all you want. You can't trust anything these days.
Imagine saying the same thing about any other product. A car, a cell phone, cable television.
Competition is what should drive quality up, not down. We will not get more good games until developers stop cutting corners and releasing their products prematurely and that is really what has plagued this genre since its birth.
Giving developers money for incomplete games only encourages them to repeat that behavior. It doesn't send the message that they need to improve.
the only reason people say that everything seems like WoW is because they havent played games that came out before it that WoW took things from.
um... yes, no maybe?
Look, we all know that there are established companies that are publicly traded that have lied. Arthur Anderson and Enron? Fannie Mae? Adelphia?
But it doesn't usually do well to hide things from investors and regulators. Companies will do this I'm sure. And even though I've seen a considerable "stepping up" by companies and organizations in the accountability department I'm sure that somewhere down the line there will be another scandal. Always is.
But at some point we have to start accepting things at face value. One can't live their life putting their money under the mattress and living in a shack in the woods. Well, people do that but do we want to be those people?
More than likely those numbers are "reasonably" correct. Even if they aren't I think it would be hard to say that WoW is not the huge player in the arena.
And in the end, investors are coming becauese of those numbers. If the company becomes over valued there will be a correction.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I trust well established companies that have decades of reputation. Not random forum goers who don't like a specific company for some assanine reason.
Thats called a time sink kiddo. Training skills in Eve is not HARD, since it actually takes almost zero input from you. Click button... wait a few weeks, click button again. Thats it. Making ISK is almost the same. Mining doesn't take any brains. You can do it while watching American Idol and surfing the web in windowed mode, while keeping your second or third account logged in guarding your mining ship if you ever even get into a fight=) Buying and selling on the market is no more challenging than buying and selling on the AH. Its basic watching of trends. Buy low, sell high. Obtaining EVERYTHING in Eve just requires time, LOTS of time. The longer you play, the more skills you have and the more money you obtain. Destroying a corp...THAT's hard. Buying an expensive ship...all it takes is a hell of lot of time training and earning ISK which also just takes time. But it sure isn't hard unless you call having the patience to tolerate the snails pace, hard=)
Compare that with trying to beat a hard mode dungeon or placing first in the arena? You can do the dungeons 1000s of times, but if you can't do it, you just can't do it and MOST people can't complete the hardest raids. As far as arenas go, there can be only 1 BEST player/team and if you think thats easy, you're whacked.