This is bad news indeed as there is nothing innovative with fast leveling. WoW started it and a plethora of games followed it and now hitting the cap in weeks for a casual player is common and a matter of days for hardcore players.
This limits the life of the game and takes away the special sense of hitting the cap because well, everyone will be doing it. And then what is there to compete for? PvP battlegrounds?
This is bad news indeed as there is nothing innovative with fast leveling. WoW started it and a plethora of games followed it and now hitting the cap in weeks for a casual player is common and a matter of days for hardcore players.
This limits the life of the game and takes away the special sense of hitting the cap because well, everyone will be doing it. And then what is there to compete for? PvP battlegrounds?
If you like to grind and you like to feel special, there are titles and achievements.
This is bad news indeed as there is nothing innovative with fast leveling. WoW started it and a plethora of games followed it and now hitting the cap in weeks for a casual player is common and a matter of days for hardcore players.
This limits the life of the game and takes away the special sense of hitting the cap because well, everyone will be doing it. And then what is there to compete for? PvP battlegrounds?
You're missing the point. The designers aren't changing the leveling curve with the sole intent of making leveling faster. If they wanted to make it fast, they would make it like GW1 where you could reach max level in a week. Their goal is to focus the players more on the content rather than grinding levels. They believe making every level take approximately the same amount of time will accomplish this. You're not supposed to want to go for the cap just to say you got there, you're supposed to hit the cap and say "Wow, I had a lot of fun getting to this point."
Originally posted by twrule You're missing the point. The designers aren't changing the leveling curve with the sole intent of making leveling faster. If they wanted to make it fast, they would make it like GW2 where you could reach max level in a week. Their goal is to focus the players more on the content rather than grinding levels. They believe making every level take approximately the same amount of time will accomplish this. You're not supposed to want to go for the cap just to say you got there, you're supposed to hit the cap and say "Wow, I had a lot of fun getting to this point."
What he said
The game is going to be about the journey and savouring it, it's getting away from what MMO's have traditionally done; giving you time sinks to get to max level to do more grinding to get max gear.
I think it's absolutely fine that people like grinding and get a sense of achievement that way, personally I prefer challenging content over grind anyday and as long as GW2 can deliver that I'll be a happy man.
Levels seperate how long a character has been playing, nothing else really. So by making it easier(read: More Fun) to get to the max level GW2 will have to offer different ways to show who's put in the most effort. Becuase ultimately thats what most players want - recognition for their time (and for being OMWAWESOME!!! yadda yadda)
It'll be interesting to see how they work gear into the game, seeing as low level gear will be obsolete quickly and a high number of players will be wanting the same max level equipment....
_____________________ Played: Aion, All Points Bulletin, ArchLord, Champions Online, City of Heroes, Dark Age of Camelot, EVE Online, EverQuest II, Fallen Earth, Fantasy Earth Zero, Guild Wars, Guild Wars Factions, Guild Wars Nightfall, Lineage 2, Lord of the Rings Online, Metin 2, MU Online, RF Online, Ryzom, Silkroad Online, Star Trek Online, Star Wars Galaxies, The Chronicles of Spellborn and Vanguard: Saga of Heroes
I just have read this design manifesto, and I must admit I am impressed. Finally a game company has come to the same conclusion I keep saying about MMOs for about 5 years. Don't believe it? Dig into all my old posts.
*pads himself on the shoulder* Well done Elikal. After 5 years it seems most companies start to see things through your eyes! Job done, now I can move on and save other worlds in peril. XD
I just wonder why it took some long to realize the obvious. Ever since I came here I preached this "people don't want hours to prepare to have fun some future time." I guess I posted this idea dozens of times, and I was bashed almost every single time I said that. Great that the unavoidable finally was realized.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Time out on this, it takes more than a graph to prove they got rid of the grind. I just don't see it happening but I am sure they have a few tricks up their sleeve. Will that be enough though?
Time out on this, it takes more than a graph to prove they got rid of the grind. I just don't see it happening but I am sure they have a few tricks up their sleeve. Will that be enough though?
But this is of all the things promised, this is not the one to doubt
The logic is that Anet is able to try this strategy BECAUSE of their financial model.
That is, they are "free" to avoid thoseTRULY DELIBERATE time sinks that are annoying even on your first character, and mind numbingly tedious for alts. Take Turbine's LOTRO, for example, which with their first expansion (Mines of Moria) introduced a type of armour, called radiance gear. This effectively "forced" players to repeat certain instances before they could proceed to the raid content.
Another example, filler quests at medium and high levels. You know the type. Kill 10 extra extra extra tough rats or orcs or boars for no good reason whatsoever. They abound in the "normal" MMO and they are ONLY there because they are cheap to make and the leveling process needs to be drawn out so you subscribe for longer. Blech.
I'm enjoying Anet's MMO "rebelliousness". Heck, I'm cheering them on.
After reading this and watching the Manifesto video several times yesterday, it occurred to me that Blizzard is probably watching this with interest,especially since ArenaNet was forged from former Blizzard talent. Blizzard has never been an innovator and has always built upon the development risks taken by others. If ArenaNet delivers on this, with their business model, it could take a significant notch out of WoW's profits, the only thing Vivendi seems to take note of.
Leveling in guildwars was never a grind in the first place. But you can bet your ass they put in hundreds of other grinds in.
Definately. Titlehunting in GW for example is a serious grind. But the main difference with other MMO's is that GW puts the grind in superficial things. You can also participate in most of GW activities right from the start. PVP at max lvl for example.
Lvl cap in GW is no grind, getting max armour is no grind. But if you want to get some fancy looking armour (same stats), the grind starts. As opposed to other MMO's where even mundane stuff requires grinding.
Example :
Some of the more popular MMO's for example have this world which is clearly designed for travelling on mount. To get a mount, you not only have to pay an arm and leg, but also level up to a certain point before you are even allowed. Its so obvious to anyone that its a carrot on a stick.
If you look at it from an immersive point of view, it just doesnt make sense. Your toon is greatly skilled in the art of war, but cant even ride a bloody horse! Its also not really a reward in this gamedesign, but more about lifting a travelling penalty. I cant stand this kind of gamedesign.
ArenaNet's trailer, while exciting, comes very close to saying that the player's choices will influence the world around him/her. It won't. These Personal Quests are almost certainly going to be in an instanced format.
And the more illusion ArenaNet wants to create about us influencing the world, the more instancing will be necessary, because technology just hasn't advanced to the point that an "open world" MMO can handle this.
Maybe I'm wrong. Hopefully I'm wrong. God, I hope I'm wrong -- it would be fantastic if it happened in the open world -- but I definitely don't see it happening with a subscription-less heavily instanced format.
ArenaNet's challenge will be trying to maintain an "MMO" sense with all these personal stories thrown in. In the original Guild Wars it felt too much like Diablo -- the "open world" was nothing but a lobby in a town where you meet to hop into an instance. These Personal Quests could just be elaborate, personalized instances, which would be a letdown.
So yeah, I'm not hyped until I get more informaiton.
This is bad news indeed as there is nothing innovative with fast leveling. WoW started it and a plethora of games followed it and now hitting the cap in weeks for a casual player is common and a matter of days for hardcore players.
This limits the life of the game and takes away the special sense of hitting the cap because well, everyone will be doing it. And then what is there to compete for? PvP battlegrounds?
If you like to grind and you like to feel special, there are titles and achievements.
It has not as much as feeling to be special but rather competetiveness. If 1000 people compete and they all get to be number 1 then where is the competetiveness.
What you call grind I call putting in an effort, if everyone can be number 1 with no effort then there is no number 1. Also territorial PvP becomes meaningless as the territories would not be worth anything.
It has not as much as feeling to be special but rather competetiveness. If 1000 people compete and they all get to be number 1 then where is the competetiveness.
What you call grind I call putting in an effort, if everyone can be number 1 with no effort then there is no number 1. Also territorial PvP becomes meaningless as the territories would not be worth anything.
Your idea has been spoonfed to you by the Everquest machine and all copies thereafter, including WoW. The idea that numerical goals should be where the competition lies.
I welcome any company's image that level caps should be irrelevant. The moment you put in a numerical goal to the game, players will generally do nothing but work towards it.
In Warhammer Online's RvR, the developers were puzzled why nobody was defending a fort. Everyone played offense, nobody played defense. Why would we not have the pride to defend our forts? Simple -- Mythic made the mistake of having RvR armor require Renown Rank to purchase, and the returns in Renown EXP were much higher if you just captured instead of defended. Players had their eyes on nothing but "maximum returns".
These numerical goals have to be eliminated -- not managed, *eliminated* as much as possible -- to keep ideas like yours from ruining the game for more casual players.
In EA's NHL10, skaters were able to pretty much "max out" the bonuses they earn for their online skaters about a month after the release (150 games or so). And yet loads of people are playing it almost a year later. Why? Because it's a sport, not a min-max grind -- skill and teamwork are emphasized over numerical goals.
If a company can pull this off, they can actually keep both hardcore and more casual players under one umbrella... unless you're the "chase after min-max number goals" hardcore type, which no company should build a game around.
This is bad news indeed as there is nothing innovative with fast leveling. WoW started it and a plethora of games followed it and now hitting the cap in weeks for a casual player is common and a matter of days for hardcore players.
This limits the life of the game and takes away the special sense of hitting the cap because well, everyone will be doing it. And then what is there to compete for? PvP battlegrounds?
If you like to grind and you like to feel special, there are titles and achievements.
It has not as much as feeling to be special but rather competetiveness. If 1000 people compete and they all get to be number 1 then where is the competetiveness.
What you call grind I call putting in an effort, if everyone can be number 1 with no effort then there is no number 1. Also territorial PvP becomes meaningless as the territories would not be worth anything.
You do realize that 1000 people can complete something in every other MMO with grinding right? It isn't hard for those who want it to put the effort into the max lvl max gear max max max. You say it is like WoW when GW1 is about the same as GW2 it appears when it comes to leveling. In the Factions and Nightfall they put a lot of emphasis on skills and story. Eye of the North had just enough grinding in it for people to stay satisfied and story to keep everyone interested to want to know what happens next.
"You think this "A" stands for France?" Captain America
i still dont get it, then why is the need of levels in this game?
A Net should just remove the level cap
A fewl levels are a good idea so people learn to play the character's combat style and not play like noobs. As long as it's not 60 - 100 lvls I'm fine.
Levels seperate how long a character has been playing, nothing else really. So by making it easier(read: More Fun) to get to the max level GW2 will have to offer different ways to show who's put in the most effort. Becuase ultimately thats what most players want - recognition for their time (and for being OMWAWESOME!!! yadda yadda)
It'll be interesting to see how they work gear into the game, seeing as low level gear will be obsolete quickly and a high number of players will be wanting the same max level equipment....
This is the type of backwater thinking that needs to be crushed A.S.A.P.! Why do we need to stroke egos in a 1up fashion? I grow tired of thinking of my fellow gamer as a rival (friendly or not). What I want is a group of companions that are as unique as the people playing them. I want rangers that look completely different, yet are equally skilled. I want healers and warriors that base their appearrance on how their characters make them feel, not what their gear dictates.
This was touched on by someone earlier that mentioned how GW1's gear was mostly superficial and runes gave gear it's usefulness. I hope they continue this tradition in GW2. Role playing is what gives a gaming world it's charm. When I watch any fantasy movie I love the look of each of the characters. I don't have to have a costume change every 20 minutes. When you think of characters like Darth Vader, Indiana Jones, Batman, Gandalf or Drizzt do'urden you get an idea in your head of how these characters look and form a clear picture of how they act or what they are like.
This uniqueness is what draws us to wanting to learn more about them. This is what we need more of in MMORPGs. We need players to grow more attached to their avatars because their avatars are a manifestation of their desire to make deep, rich, thoughtful characters to populate these worlds. Inside and out.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
grimmbot, the environment-changing effects will be happening in the open world via dynamic events. The water pipes you see bursting in the Manifesto video, the bridge you see collapsing - those are in the open world, and the damage will remain visible and will impact everyone on the server unless and until they are able to be rebuilt/repaired - which will not occur immediately.
In the open world, if the centaurs raid a village, they take it over for real; you cannot buy from merchants there (because the merchants have been imprisoned or killed), the town is destroyed/sacked, etc. Again, this occurs in the open world.
ArenaNet's trailer, while exciting, comes very close to saying that the player's choices will influence the world around him/her. It won't. These Personal Quests are almost certainly going to be in an instanced format.
And the more illusion ArenaNet wants to create about us influencing the world, the more instancing will be necessary, because technology just hasn't advanced to the point that an "open world" MMO can handle this.
Maybe I'm wrong. Hopefully I'm wrong. God, I hope I'm wrong -- it would be fantastic if it happened in the open world -- but I definitely don't see it happening with a subscription-less heavily instanced format.
ArenaNet's challenge will be trying to maintain an "MMO" sense with all these personal stories thrown in. In the original Guild Wars it felt too much like Diablo -- the "open world" was nothing but a lobby in a town where you meet to hop into an instance. These Personal Quests could just be elaborate, personalized instances, which would be a letdown.
So yeah, I'm not hyped until I get more informaiton.
you are wrong ! luckely you are wrong!
because the player choises that influence the world around him is based on his impackt on dynamic events. If a player solo a dynamic event and fail to proteckt and village and its burned down. Then its burned down for all on the server!
you should read up upon "dynamic events" - because Arena net exsactly claim that they have a mmo technology that can handle that.
Hey lets make so easy, a caveman can do it. God forbid someone has to work hard to achieve something worth while. They can go ahead and pander to children , lasy arses, and gamers without patience. But I will stick with MMO's that give you the feeling of actual achievement for your dedication.
I don't equate an arbitrary increase of time with achievement. Making it require 200 quests or 500 mobs to get one level when it used to take 20 quests or 100 mobs doesn't add to the experience, it just makes a level take longer for reasons that don't benefit the player any. Instead, they only serve to keep the player playing longer so they can get more money out of you.
Completing 200 quests vs. 20 quests isn't a measure of difficulty, it's a measure of patience and tolerance. Killing 20 bears to turn in a quest isn't any different from killing 20 Angry Bears 30 levels later. The gameplay often remains the same, the time to level is simply increased.
When your content creation isn't forcibly designed around giving players enough filler to make it through the next level (due to lengthy TTL) you are more free to create interesting and memorable content throughout the progression. When your XP curve dictates it should take X (large) amount of quests to get through a level you aren't going to have time or resources to put together interesting quests to meet that quota, instead you end up with a lot of derivative basic stuff, or even worse, repeatable quests.
I suppose if you prefer running from quest hub to quest hub and clicking a bunch of question/exclamation marks to fill your journal with stuff you don't really care about but are only doing to get the next ding, that is your prerogative.
Me? I find ArenaNet's approach here refreshing, and I hope they can follow through on what they've been saying.
In any case, while we disagree, I appreciate your opinion, thanks for reading the article!
I couldn't agree more MikeB. I am a long time MMO Player, and this is indeed refreshing. This genre needs change plain and simple. There are too many MMO's that are too similar, there needs to be some harsh differences, with GW2, this makes it a no brainer to play, especially with the fact that it will be free to play, other than purchasing the box, and further expansions. In my opinion in the battle of P2P and F2P, this should be the future of the MMO genre, the way Global Agenda, Guild Wars, and now Guild Wars 2 is going about thier business. Sure the sub model is great, it generates revenue for server maintenace, customer support, and dedicated GM's...well thats what it is supposed to go to anyways...lol
There are alot of choices coming up, RIFT is doing some things different than other MMO's, but not to the Extreme GW2 is, your choice is simply to play or not to play, if you dont like what GW2 has to offer, then don't support thier business model, go support what best fits your play style. Most people are afraid of change, investors feel the same way, if it's not broke then don't fix it, however this genre is broken, its old and repetitive, and while there are a few differences between MMOs its still generally the same thing over and over. EQ vs. DAoC...2 WAYYYYY different MMO's, but use the same mechanic...grind. And hey thats all good I put my 10+ years in grinding, playing every MMO you have heard of, and a ton you probaby never have heard about. its time for a change, and with GW2 it makes choices a bit easier for me as the game will 1. be free to play after purchase, 2. give me a different feeling and experience from the normal MMO. I used to call MMO's online novels. When they were in their infancy stages, like UO, EQ, DAoC even that start of EQ2 and WoW, they were like a 3d novel, it wa smy way or "reading", being immersed into a story, and played out in a 3d environment, however it just doesn't really feel that way anymore, until now. I plan to play GW2, SW:TOR, and Rift, all for different reasons and experiences.
Make your choice, its your money, your time, and your effort. if you want to be a static character, that is not a real part of a living breathing environment thats all on you.
Don't bash a company for trying to break the mold and give YOU the player something different to do with your time, go into the game with an open mind, expecting to have a different experience, I never thought ArenaNet would be the company to revolutionize the MMO Industry, but Hats off to them, I was not a fan of GW1, but GW2, *APPLAUSE* even if the game is moderately successful, thats exactly what will happen, a revolution.
You want to talk about easy? WoW...thats easy...what used to be a moderatly hardcore game at launch has turned into a kiddie fest, you want HARDCORE? Go back 10 years, EQ1, 200+ people raiding for 1 piece of loot, THAT WAS HARDCORE!
Comments
sounds to good to be true, my only worry is that i will run out of things to do besides pvp very very soon after release
This is bad news indeed as there is nothing innovative with fast leveling. WoW started it and a plethora of games followed it and now hitting the cap in weeks for a casual player is common and a matter of days for hardcore players.
This limits the life of the game and takes away the special sense of hitting the cap because well, everyone will be doing it. And then what is there to compete for? PvP battlegrounds?
My gaming blog
If you like to grind and you like to feel special, there are titles and achievements.
This is not a game.
Just looked at the newest video...wow...just wow. Bring it...
You're missing the point. The designers aren't changing the leveling curve with the sole intent of making leveling faster. If they wanted to make it fast, they would make it like GW1 where you could reach max level in a week. Their goal is to focus the players more on the content rather than grinding levels. They believe making every level take approximately the same amount of time will accomplish this. You're not supposed to want to go for the cap just to say you got there, you're supposed to hit the cap and say "Wow, I had a lot of fun getting to this point."
What he said
The game is going to be about the journey and savouring it, it's getting away from what MMO's have traditionally done; giving you time sinks to get to max level to do more grinding to get max gear.
I think it's absolutely fine that people like grinding and get a sense of achievement that way, personally I prefer challenging content over grind anyday and as long as GW2 can deliver that I'll be a happy man.
Hmm.. i have a feeling i heard this hype talk before.
I reserve judgment until its released.
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I'm a high-tech low-life. A cutting-edge, state-of-the-art, bi-coastal multi-tasker, and I can give you a gigabyte in a nanosecond.
I'm new-wave, but I'm old-school; and my inner child is outward-bound.
I'm a hot-wired, heat-seeking, warm-hearted cool customer; voice-activated and bio-degradable.
RIP George Carlin.
Levels seperate how long a character has been playing, nothing else really. So by making it easier(read: More Fun) to get to the max level GW2 will have to offer different ways to show who's put in the most effort. Becuase ultimately thats what most players want - recognition for their time (and for being OMWAWESOME!!! yadda yadda)
It'll be interesting to see how they work gear into the game, seeing as low level gear will be obsolete quickly and a high number of players will be wanting the same max level equipment....
_____________________
Played:
Aion, All Points Bulletin, ArchLord, Champions Online, City of Heroes, Dark Age of Camelot, EVE Online, EverQuest II, Fallen Earth, Fantasy Earth Zero, Guild Wars, Guild Wars Factions, Guild Wars Nightfall, Lineage 2, Lord of the Rings Online, Metin 2, MU Online, RF Online, Ryzom, Silkroad Online, Star Trek Online, Star Wars Galaxies, The Chronicles of Spellborn and Vanguard: Saga of Heroes
Awaiting: FFXIV and SW:TOR
I just have read this design manifesto, and I must admit I am impressed. Finally a game company has come to the same conclusion I keep saying about MMOs for about 5 years. Don't believe it? Dig into all my old posts.
*pads himself on the shoulder* Well done Elikal. After 5 years it seems most companies start to see things through your eyes! Job done, now I can move on and save other worlds in peril. XD
I just wonder why it took some long to realize the obvious. Ever since I came here I preached this "people don't want hours to prepare to have fun some future time." I guess I posted this idea dozens of times, and I was bashed almost every single time I said that. Great that the unavoidable finally was realized.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Time out on this, it takes more than a graph to prove they got rid of the grind. I just don't see it happening but I am sure they have a few tricks up their sleeve. Will that be enough though?
Leveling in guildwars was never a grind in the first place. But you can bet your ass they put in hundreds of other grinds in.
But this is of all the things promised, this is not the one to doubt
because this it how it was in the original
The logic is that Anet is able to try this strategy BECAUSE of their financial model.
That is, they are "free" to avoid thoseTRULY DELIBERATE time sinks that are annoying even on your first character, and mind numbingly tedious for alts. Take Turbine's LOTRO, for example, which with their first expansion (Mines of Moria) introduced a type of armour, called radiance gear. This effectively "forced" players to repeat certain instances before they could proceed to the raid content.
Another example, filler quests at medium and high levels. You know the type. Kill 10 extra extra extra tough rats or orcs or boars for no good reason whatsoever. They abound in the "normal" MMO and they are ONLY there because they are cheap to make and the leveling process needs to be drawn out so you subscribe for longer. Blech.
I'm enjoying Anet's MMO "rebelliousness". Heck, I'm cheering them on.
After reading this and watching the Manifesto video several times yesterday, it occurred to me that Blizzard is probably watching this with interest,especially since ArenaNet was forged from former Blizzard talent. Blizzard has never been an innovator and has always built upon the development risks taken by others. If ArenaNet delivers on this, with their business model, it could take a significant notch out of WoW's profits, the only thing Vivendi seems to take note of.
Definately. Titlehunting in GW for example is a serious grind. But the main difference with other MMO's is that GW puts the grind in superficial things. You can also participate in most of GW activities right from the start. PVP at max lvl for example.
Lvl cap in GW is no grind, getting max armour is no grind. But if you want to get some fancy looking armour (same stats), the grind starts. As opposed to other MMO's where even mundane stuff requires grinding.
Example :
Some of the more popular MMO's for example have this world which is clearly designed for travelling on mount. To get a mount, you not only have to pay an arm and leg, but also level up to a certain point before you are even allowed. Its so obvious to anyone that its a carrot on a stick.
If you look at it from an immersive point of view, it just doesnt make sense. Your toon is greatly skilled in the art of war, but cant even ride a bloody horse! Its also not really a reward in this gamedesign, but more about lifting a travelling penalty. I cant stand this kind of gamedesign.
Here's the thing:
ArenaNet's trailer, while exciting, comes very close to saying that the player's choices will influence the world around him/her. It won't. These Personal Quests are almost certainly going to be in an instanced format.
And the more illusion ArenaNet wants to create about us influencing the world, the more instancing will be necessary, because technology just hasn't advanced to the point that an "open world" MMO can handle this.
Maybe I'm wrong. Hopefully I'm wrong. God, I hope I'm wrong -- it would be fantastic if it happened in the open world -- but I definitely don't see it happening with a subscription-less heavily instanced format.
ArenaNet's challenge will be trying to maintain an "MMO" sense with all these personal stories thrown in. In the original Guild Wars it felt too much like Diablo -- the "open world" was nothing but a lobby in a town where you meet to hop into an instance. These Personal Quests could just be elaborate, personalized instances, which would be a letdown.
So yeah, I'm not hyped until I get more informaiton.
It has not as much as feeling to be special but rather competetiveness. If 1000 people compete and they all get to be number 1 then where is the competetiveness.
What you call grind I call putting in an effort, if everyone can be number 1 with no effort then there is no number 1. Also territorial PvP becomes meaningless as the territories would not be worth anything.
My gaming blog
Your idea has been spoonfed to you by the Everquest machine and all copies thereafter, including WoW. The idea that numerical goals should be where the competition lies.
I welcome any company's image that level caps should be irrelevant. The moment you put in a numerical goal to the game, players will generally do nothing but work towards it.
In Warhammer Online's RvR, the developers were puzzled why nobody was defending a fort. Everyone played offense, nobody played defense. Why would we not have the pride to defend our forts? Simple -- Mythic made the mistake of having RvR armor require Renown Rank to purchase, and the returns in Renown EXP were much higher if you just captured instead of defended. Players had their eyes on nothing but "maximum returns".
These numerical goals have to be eliminated -- not managed, *eliminated* as much as possible -- to keep ideas like yours from ruining the game for more casual players.
In EA's NHL10, skaters were able to pretty much "max out" the bonuses they earn for their online skaters about a month after the release (150 games or so). And yet loads of people are playing it almost a year later. Why? Because it's a sport, not a min-max grind -- skill and teamwork are emphasized over numerical goals.
If a company can pull this off, they can actually keep both hardcore and more casual players under one umbrella... unless you're the "chase after min-max number goals" hardcore type, which no company should build a game around.
OMG a game on the interweb has hype! I'll go ahead and estimate that the odds of GW2 living up to the hype and expectations to be exactly 0.0%.
You do realize that 1000 people can complete something in every other MMO with grinding right? It isn't hard for those who want it to put the effort into the max lvl max gear max max max. You say it is like WoW when GW1 is about the same as GW2 it appears when it comes to leveling. In the Factions and Nightfall they put a lot of emphasis on skills and story. Eye of the North had just enough grinding in it for people to stay satisfied and story to keep everyone interested to want to know what happens next.
"You think this "A" stands for France?" Captain America
A fewl levels are a good idea so people learn to play the character's combat style and not play like noobs. As long as it's not 60 - 100 lvls I'm fine.
This is the type of backwater thinking that needs to be crushed A.S.A.P.! Why do we need to stroke egos in a 1up fashion? I grow tired of thinking of my fellow gamer as a rival (friendly or not). What I want is a group of companions that are as unique as the people playing them. I want rangers that look completely different, yet are equally skilled. I want healers and warriors that base their appearrance on how their characters make them feel, not what their gear dictates.
This was touched on by someone earlier that mentioned how GW1's gear was mostly superficial and runes gave gear it's usefulness. I hope they continue this tradition in GW2. Role playing is what gives a gaming world it's charm. When I watch any fantasy movie I love the look of each of the characters. I don't have to have a costume change every 20 minutes. When you think of characters like Darth Vader, Indiana Jones, Batman, Gandalf or Drizzt do'urden you get an idea in your head of how these characters look and form a clear picture of how they act or what they are like.
This uniqueness is what draws us to wanting to learn more about them. This is what we need more of in MMORPGs. We need players to grow more attached to their avatars because their avatars are a manifestation of their desire to make deep, rich, thoughtful characters to populate these worlds. Inside and out.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
grimmbot, the environment-changing effects will be happening in the open world via dynamic events. The water pipes you see bursting in the Manifesto video, the bridge you see collapsing - those are in the open world, and the damage will remain visible and will impact everyone on the server unless and until they are able to be rebuilt/repaired - which will not occur immediately.
In the open world, if the centaurs raid a village, they take it over for real; you cannot buy from merchants there (because the merchants have been imprisoned or killed), the town is destroyed/sacked, etc. Again, this occurs in the open world.
you are wrong ! luckely you are wrong!
because the player choises that influence the world around him is based on his impackt on dynamic events. If a player solo a dynamic event and fail to proteckt and village and its burned down. Then its burned down for all on the server!
you should read up upon "dynamic events" - because Arena net exsactly claim that they have a mmo technology that can handle that.
I couldn't agree more MikeB. I am a long time MMO Player, and this is indeed refreshing. This genre needs change plain and simple. There are too many MMO's that are too similar, there needs to be some harsh differences, with GW2, this makes it a no brainer to play, especially with the fact that it will be free to play, other than purchasing the box, and further expansions. In my opinion in the battle of P2P and F2P, this should be the future of the MMO genre, the way Global Agenda, Guild Wars, and now Guild Wars 2 is going about thier business. Sure the sub model is great, it generates revenue for server maintenace, customer support, and dedicated GM's...well thats what it is supposed to go to anyways...lol
There are alot of choices coming up, RIFT is doing some things different than other MMO's, but not to the Extreme GW2 is, your choice is simply to play or not to play, if you dont like what GW2 has to offer, then don't support thier business model, go support what best fits your play style. Most people are afraid of change, investors feel the same way, if it's not broke then don't fix it, however this genre is broken, its old and repetitive, and while there are a few differences between MMOs its still generally the same thing over and over. EQ vs. DAoC...2 WAYYYYY different MMO's, but use the same mechanic...grind. And hey thats all good I put my 10+ years in grinding, playing every MMO you have heard of, and a ton you probaby never have heard about. its time for a change, and with GW2 it makes choices a bit easier for me as the game will 1. be free to play after purchase, 2. give me a different feeling and experience from the normal MMO. I used to call MMO's online novels. When they were in their infancy stages, like UO, EQ, DAoC even that start of EQ2 and WoW, they were like a 3d novel, it wa smy way or "reading", being immersed into a story, and played out in a 3d environment, however it just doesn't really feel that way anymore, until now. I plan to play GW2, SW:TOR, and Rift, all for different reasons and experiences.
Make your choice, its your money, your time, and your effort. if you want to be a static character, that is not a real part of a living breathing environment thats all on you.
Don't bash a company for trying to break the mold and give YOU the player something different to do with your time, go into the game with an open mind, expecting to have a different experience, I never thought ArenaNet would be the company to revolutionize the MMO Industry, but Hats off to them, I was not a fan of GW1, but GW2, *APPLAUSE* even if the game is moderately successful, thats exactly what will happen, a revolution.
You want to talk about easy? WoW...thats easy...what used to be a moderatly hardcore game at launch has turned into a kiddie fest, you want HARDCORE? Go back 10 years, EQ1, 200+ people raiding for 1 piece of loot, THAT WAS HARDCORE!