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Guild Wars 2: Heals for Everyone!

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  • exilioexilio Member UncommonPosts: 46

    Originally posted by alkarionlog



    I just know some people will complain :P


     

    Yes. Because some people actually like being a healer. I am a bit disappointed that NCSoft is going this way, but I trust the GW2 devs are doing it with an idea of changing the way MMOs are done, and I'm fine with that. But I really will miss being a healer. At least a hybrid typoe that buffs/debuffs/heals better than average would be nice.

    image

  • DubhlaithDubhlaith Member Posts: 1,012


    Originally posted by artemisentr4
    Originally posted by daeandorHealing isn't so much how the game is set up, trinity wise, it is how people play.  Even in GW2, I imagine there are going to be shouts like:  "Group needs healing spec [insert class]!" And then if you dare play whichever class everyone feels heals the best, and don't spec for healing.... beware the scorn.  The trinity is set.  Active healing by a player character is always going to be expected.
     
    Want to eliminate dedicated healing?  Make healing like in diablo and torchlight and such:  potions and single self heal spells only.  Allow the two to be spammed and allow them to stack.  End of healing problem.

    This is the way I see it as well. Every class can have healing spells and multiple types of skills loaded at any time. But in a group, you will be looking for X player for a run. And X player needs to bring protection and healing as the active skills for the group run. It takes away limitation to individuals, allows player to specialize if they want and can allow for player to group if they spec certain skills. It will depend n the community more than the feature it's self.



    You are looking at it the wrong way, and perhaps other players do/will as well, but that is part of the problem; you should not continue to make stale rehashes of previous ideas in your games just because some players are unable to think in a new way.

    That said, this will not work. One player will not be able to equip enough healing/defence to protect the entire group. There will be dedicated slots for things, and players will be unable to be pure healing characters, regardless of class. That is a huge part of the point of the system. Everyone/most people in a given group will have to contribute to healing/defence/support of the entire team. You will not be able to take one class that will be your healer and expect everyone else to dps with one tank. Anet has said they are actively working to prevent players from doing this, because that is the only way to force people like you to think outside of their preconceived notions of how combat mechanics should work.

    Even if this does not work very well, I am thrilled they are trying to get people away from this stale, and ridiculously bad system. I usually play healers, but if the team is any good, I am useless for a great deal of dungeons because they are not taking much damage, and I am not strong enough with damage to be much help. I love the idea of everyone working together without needing one person to do everything in a single role.


    You know ... like a team.

    "Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true — you know it, and they know it." —Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007

    WTF? No subscription fee?

  • twruletwrule Member Posts: 1,251

    Originally posted by exilio



    Originally posted by alkarionlog



    I just know some people will complain :P


     

    Yes. Because some people actually like being a healer. I am a bit disappointed that NCSoft is going this way, but I trust the GW2 devs are doing it with an idea of changing the way MMOs are done, and I'm fine with that. But I really will miss being a healer. At least a hybrid typoe that buffs/debuffs/heals better than average would be nice.


     

    I think a seriously fun support hybrid will be possible.  All you have to do is choose your class/glyphs/skills with the goal of preventing/softening as much damage to your group as possible.

    For a hypothetical example (speculation based on what I know of the game so far): a enemies approach and begin launching ranged attacks at your group.  Let's say you're an elementalist: you'll use a spell that creates a protective wind barrier around the position in which your group is standing that absorbs/deflects projectiles for a time.  One or two of the enemies start casting big nuke spells that will decimate your party if they land...but you cast an earthquake spell just before they complete the cast, knocking them all down and interrupting the casts.  This gives your group time to close to melee range, and blows are traded for a bit.  Perhaps at this point you begin placing some debuffs on the enemies that slow their attacks or otherwise reduce the damage they deal - or perhaps buff your allies with damage reducing abilities.  As the fight drags on, your allies have already used up their self-healing abilities, but these enemies hit hard and aren't quite dead.  At this point you could cast your healing geyser ability, which sends the enemies flying - scattering them and leaving some of them to be easily picked off, while simultaneously healing your teammates a bit.  You use a static field lightning spell to bind the remaining enemies in place so they can't regroup while your group finishes off their friends, and it becomes a simple task of finishing off those remaining.

    I didn't even use any examples of the ways you might combine your abilities directly with the abilities of others here, or mention the customization possible in the "glyph" system.  These spells have all been shown to be in the game (besides maybe the buff/debuffing part - but it's safe to assume they'll have something along those lines) or described by the devs.  As you can see, if you broaden your perspective of support by including defensive and control abilities, you can still serve the same role as protector of your teammates - even more directly, in fact.  This is with an elementalist - there will probably be more defensively oriented classes than them in the game as well.

  • n3verendRn3verendR Member UncommonPosts: 452

    I think the game is better for it. Instead of dedicating two healers to burst damage, you are going to have moves like that Ranger one where he reflects all ranged attacks... and AE stuns like the one the Elementalist used to be active instead of reactive. It's worked for years on games like Devil May Cry, now let's see if it can translate to MMOs.

    People think it's fun to pretend your a monster. Me I spend my life pretending I'm not. - Dexter Morgan

  • ComfyChairComfyChair Member Posts: 758

    Sounds like it'll make combat more fun now. 

    'OMG the shatterer is about to use some kind of epic uber crystal roar thingy, dive behind the warrior with the shield!'

    Instead of:

    'OMG the shatterer is about to use some kind of epic uber crystal roar thingy, stand there and take it like a moron and poor healer mcnumpty face can wipe away our tears and wipe our arses for us'

  • natuxatunatuxatu Member UncommonPosts: 1,364

    As a healer... I am excited about this. It'll force me, hopefully, to take on more roles in a party depending on the situation. I enjoy healing but what I enjoyed more about being a healer was that I was always in such demand... so yeah it might sucks not be mr. popular anymore but I really think this is good news for everyone all around.  Besides it sounds like you can still mainly heal/support if you want to. It's just providing more flexibility. Some mesmer's were good healers with their fastcasting.. I think it's pretty much going to be along those lines. Everyone can heal/support just in different ways.

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  • niqpereniqpere Member Posts: 14

    If do do this right i will have a game to play for years .So looking forward to this game havent read any news i didnt like yet.

  • artemisentr4artemisentr4 Member UncommonPosts: 1,431

    Originally posted by Dubhlaith

     




    Originally posted by artemisentr4



    Originally posted by daeandor

     

    Healing isn't so much how the game is set up, trinity wise, it is how people play.  Even in GW2, I imagine there are going to be shouts like:  "Group needs healing spec [insert class]!" And then if you dare play whichever class everyone feels heals the best, and don't spec for healing.... beware the scorn.  The trinity is set.  Active healing by a player character is always going to be expected.

     

    Want to eliminate dedicated healing?  Make healing like in diablo and torchlight and such:  potions and single self heal spells only.  Allow the two to be spammed and allow them to stack.  End of healing problem.


     



     

    This is the way I see it as well. Every class can have healing spells and multiple types of skills loaded at any time. But in a group, you will be looking for X player for a run. And X player needs to bring protection and healing as the active skills for the group run. It takes away limitation to individuals, allows player to specialize if they want and can allow for player to group if they spec certain skills. It will depend n the community more than the feature it's self.



     



    You are looking at it the wrong way, and perhaps other players do/will as well, but that is part of the problem; you should not continue to make stale rehashes of previous ideas in your games just because some players are unable to think in a new way.

    That said, this will not work. One player will not be able to equip enough healing/defence to protect the entire group. There will be dedicated slots for things, and players will be unable to be pure healing characters, regardless of class. That is a huge part of the point of the system. Everyone/most people in a given group will have to contribute to healing/defence/support of the entire team. You will not be able to take one class that will be your healer and expect everyone else to dps with one tank. Anet has said they are actively working to prevent players from doing this, because that is the only way to force people like you to think outside of their preconceived notions of how combat mechanics should work.

    Even if this does not work very well, I am thrilled they are trying to get people away from this stale, and ridiculously bad system. I usually play healers, but if the team is any good, I am useless for a great deal of dungeons because they are not taking much damage, and I am not strong enough with damage to be much help. I love the idea of everyone working together without needing one person to do everything in a single role.



    You know ... like a team.

     I don't thing that the trinity should be the end all be all of MMO's or any game in general. But I do think that the best "team" will have pleople/players that secialize when working together. So there may not be a way to be a dedicated healer or protector or just support. But to be the best tactically, your team should dedicate some players to do differnet things. You just can't say, "ok, everyone just do your own thing and we will kick but". You need some players to focus on something. It can be more than just one thing, I agree with that. But there should be a focus for each team member to make a good team.

    “How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them?”
    R.A.Salvatore

  • LuxumaruLuxumaru Member UncommonPosts: 259

    Originally posted by Raxxo82



    ahh what a great idea!! No more healers, perfect! Now all we have to do is get rid of tanks, dps and crowd control and we re GTG! nice...!  No more classes.. everyone can do everything and then the balance will be perfected!  Now if we also get rid of mobs and dangerous enviroments, noone will ever have theyre toon dyin on them again! KOOOMBAAA YAAAAAA MI LORD! KOOOOMBAAAA NYAAAA!!!!


     

    This post is a fine example of ignorance at it's best.

    Tell me, are you one of the people who enjoys sitting in a town for an hour spamming LFG or LF Heals or Heals LFG?

    I think this is a great move for GW, and MMOs in general. The amount of people who enjoy playing pure heals isn't good enough to service all the DPS out there. Also, removing dedicated healers makes everyone in the party pull their own weight, a common issue in group tasks. IMO the only people angry about this are die hard healer players, and people who don't like to be productive and just sit back and let the rest of the group do the work. You know who you are!

    Total MMOs played: 274|Enjoyed: 9. >:|

  • twruletwrule Member Posts: 1,251

    Originally posted by artemisentr4

    Originally posted by Dubhlaith

     




    Originally posted by artemisentr4




    Originally posted by daeandor

     

    Healing isn't so much how the game is set up, trinity wise, it is how people play.  Even in GW2, I imagine there are going to be shouts like:  "Group needs healing spec [insert class]!" And then if you dare play whichever class everyone feels heals the best, and don't spec for healing.... beware the scorn.  The trinity is set.  Active healing by a player character is always going to be expected.

     

    Want to eliminate dedicated healing?  Make healing like in diablo and torchlight and such:  potions and single self heal spells only.  Allow the two to be spammed and allow them to stack.  End of healing problem.


     



     

    This is the way I see it as well. Every class can have healing spells and multiple types of skills loaded at any time. But in a group, you will be looking for X player for a run. And X player needs to bring protection and healing as the active skills for the group run. It takes away limitation to individuals, allows player to specialize if they want and can allow for player to group if they spec certain skills. It will depend n the community more than the feature it's self.



     



    You are looking at it the wrong way, and perhaps other players do/will as well, but that is part of the problem; you should not continue to make stale rehashes of previous ideas in your games just because some players are unable to think in a new way.

    That said, this will not work. One player will not be able to equip enough healing/defence to protect the entire group. There will be dedicated slots for things, and players will be unable to be pure healing characters, regardless of class. That is a huge part of the point of the system. Everyone/most people in a given group will have to contribute to healing/defence/support of the entire team. You will not be able to take one class that will be your healer and expect everyone else to dps with one tank. Anet has said they are actively working to prevent players from doing this, because that is the only way to force people like you to think outside of their preconceived notions of how combat mechanics should work.

    Even if this does not work very well, I am thrilled they are trying to get people away from this stale, and ridiculously bad system. I usually play healers, but if the team is any good, I am useless for a great deal of dungeons because they are not taking much damage, and I am not strong enough with damage to be much help. I love the idea of everyone working together without needing one person to do everything in a single role.



    You know ... like a team.

     I don't thing that the trinity should be the end all be all of MMO's or any game in general. But I do think that the best "team" will have pleople/players that secialize when working together. So there may not be a way to be a dedicated healer or protector or just support. But to be the best tactically, your team should dedicate some players to do differnet things. You just can't say, "ok, everyone just do your own thing and we will kick but". You need some players to focus on something. It can be more than just one thing, I agree with that. But there should be a focus for each team member to make a good team.

    Yeah, It's easy to get the wrong idea here.  Everyone getting 1 slot for a healing cooldown is thankfully not going to equal everyone being able to fill every role simultaneous.  I think that's where a lot of people are getting confused.  There will still be specialization - it's just that there's so much flexibility inherent in the system that you can choose to be a "jack of all trades, master of none" or you can specialize on a specific role.  Most people will naturally choose the role they find most fun, whether it be damage, support, or control, and focus mostly toward that.

  • kevnonkevnon Member Posts: 20

    yeah squres track record is a hit and misss, some people love 7 and hate eight others love eight and love nine, and so on and so on, and then theres even some who lovem all.  :)

    kevin ripka

  • BlahTeebBlahTeeb Member UncommonPosts: 624




     

    Didn't have time to read all the posts. But all of the doubters can't seem to understand that this is a different game with different rules. Just because healers were generally required in MMO's does not mean it is actually required in any MMO.

    It's almost like saying, The GW monks healed for 80 HP, which means they are not as good as a WoW healer, who can heal for thousands. But obviously both healers from both games are a VERY needed class, even though the GW healer only heals a fraction of the WoW healer. So... out of context, or in this case, compared to other games, the idea of no healers sounds bad. Why? Because you are sticking the idea into a different rule book. If you, however, build the rule with and around the idea, then ANYTHING is pretty much possible. GW monks only need to heal for 100-ish hp, because the game was built for a much lower health point count and lower level. WoW on the other hand, has a higher level cap and a much higher health point count.

    Also, this does not make the game a zergfest. Even though the classes are designed to be able to handle themselves offense AND defense wise, they are not pure hybrids. Though it seem each class can do everything, they can't do everything at a single time. Each class has some form of a switchable mechanic. Elementalists attune to one of the four elements. Rangers and warriors so far can swap between a number of weapons. Each switch is pretty much used to specify in a role. An elementalist may be able to throw fireballs from the sky and cast a wall of flames, but before it can switch to water and heal, it must first attune. It was stated recently that these switches take time and have a cooldown to prevent you from switching too much. Along with that, the healing in the game is very pro-active. It is not an all DPS battle. You could bring all your DPS into battle, but if the other team has even a little form of anti-melee, your team will almost be shutdown. Well now you need someone to counter the anti-melee AND any other HEX they may throw at you. So you pick up another class to back him up. Well now you are short 2 dps classes, so you should bring something that can boost the other 4-5 guys are dpsing. Then on and on and eventually you are only required to bring one or two specialized in DPS. This is how it worked in GW1, in both matches that had and didn't have healers.

  • flydowntomeflydowntome Member Posts: 106

    I don't see this working. Either everyone is going to have to be a self-healer, or healing classes will arise anyways as the most efficient builds. Unless they are going to make the game where you just attack enemies and revive downed players when they die, more like Gears of War. With "support" just mitigating some of the damage and deaths are planned.

     

  • HonkieHonkie Member Posts: 152

    Originally posted by Warband

    Lol the funny thing is this is completely and utterly wrong in regards to higher level pvp in gw1. It is a tactic that is avoided in high level pvp play in gw1. In high level gw1 pvp healing is already spread around most of the team, any team that left all it's healing to the monks were quickly and swiftly destroyed. Only people that knew very little about pvp left the healing purely to monks.

    Besides comparing any mmo pvp to gw2 even gw1 is something that shouldn't done as it leads to massive misconceptions. There's now a revive system similar to gears of war, downed skills, finishing blows, extensive proactive protting with likely AoE shields etc. They're hasn't been an mmo combat anywhere close to this, stating how something does or doesn't work is useless in comparison to this game.

     So you're making the claim that "higher level pvp" has no dedicated healers?  Nobody who is ready with the quick prot or infuse to counter the spike, hanging in the backlines, that won't be busy with dps?  Perhaps you should reread what I said, since you're claiming that in GW pvp teams run with everyone managing their own healing.

  • lordtulllordtull Member UncommonPosts: 11

    Wow a party having the ability to help each other and not rely on a single healer class to save their sorry asses what a concept,I welcome that having played healer classes no more will you have a player healing their ass off just to see idiots dieing through their own stupidity and then blaming the poor guy/girl for it.I have played gw from beginning and can't wait for 2 to be released.

    image

  • yureinekoyureineko Member Posts: 39

    Awesome, I hope this catches on.

    I have never been in a guild because I don't have the time to dedicate to one that runs a lot of instances, so I have always had to rely on the PUG,which, is like Russian roulette, except the revolver has 4-5 bullets in it, and that's when you can find both a tank and a healer.

    Trying to roll a tank or healer to alieviate some of that horrendous wait in the LFG is no help. You roll a tank and the healer you found sucks. Roll a healer and the tank you find likes to run off into multiple groups of mobs when everyone's OOM.

    I have always felt it makes these 2 roles more burdensome and less fun.

    So, my hat is off to the developers at Arenanet for doing something innovative and inspired.

    P.S. It's a metaphorical hat. I don't really wear hats.

     

     

     

    I don't even believe in Jeebus.

  • PalebanePalebane Member RarePosts: 4,011

    Tune in next week when they announch they are eliminating tank mechanics as well. I, for one, can't wait.

    Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.

  • twruletwrule Member Posts: 1,251

    Originally posted by Palebane

    Tune in next week when they announch they are eliminating tank mechanics as well. I, for one, can't wait.

    They actually already have - in fact the healing thing was announced long ago too, at the same time.

  • rbc13183rbc13183 Member Posts: 208

    I was never as appreciative of healing classes as most other players were. For me personally, the better they were at their job, and the more geared up they were, the more boring the game got. Boring, because it became too easy! Being a DPS class, I barely had to move around when fighting mobs in dungeons. Add this to having a really experienced and well-geared tank, and I could finish most combat encounters with one finger. Backstab, backstab, backstab, dead. No pots used, health at 100%. Move to the next room, rinse and repeat. While some may find such gameplay to be fun, it started to get as boring as hell for me.

    The new healing and tanking mechanics that Guild Wars 2 is introducing are some VERY refreshing changes for me, and may help to breathe some actual LIFE into the genre again.

    "Everyone dies. It is how one lives that matters."
    — Artemis Entreri (R.A. Salvatore)

    "P.S. MAKE NO DEALS WITH THE WOLF." -Durzo Blint-

    "But, there is one they fear.

    In their tongue, he is Dovahkiin -- Dragonborn!" -Game of the Century-

  • OzmodanOzmodan Member EpicPosts: 9,726

    A lot of well done games have done this successfully.  Only someone with blinders on thinks you need the holy trinity to do hard content.

    Glad someone has the guts to ditch the main healer figure.  It was one of the worst things EQ introduced to the genre.

  • natuxatunatuxatu Member UncommonPosts: 1,364

    Yes someone else pointed out something that require me to remention.... As a healer I constantly have to heal my butt off only to have people dying of their own stupidity. When a whole party is just relying on a healer they don't even bother trying to play smart half the time. This will change that.

    image

  • natuxatunatuxatu Member UncommonPosts: 1,364

    Oh and I love how people are complaining about something new. Most people don't take change very well. But I welcome change. Everyone whines about WoW clones but when someone actually does something very different... OMGZ QQ.. and yet none of us now how it's going to actually play out.

    image

  • KaoRyxKaoRyx Member Posts: 68
    It's a concept that has a whoooole lot of potential. I'm a little saddened because I very much enjoy playing dedicated healers, but I think this type of change in MMOs, especially popular ones, really helps expand the genre. Kudos to the devs, let's see if it turns out as well as I hope it does.

    Someday we'll all look back on the age of computers - and lol.

  • DoomedfoxDoomedfox Member UncommonPosts: 679

    Meh and there i was hoping GW2 might become perfect lol

    Oh well i still will give the game a try that's for sure and even tho i do not appreciate the way they r going with eliminating healing classes could it still be fun i suppose but 1 thing is for sure eliminating classes does not help in the way of bringing ppls to group up.

    I do see why they choose the road tho u normally always have too many DPS and they r looking forever to find a healer (or tank) now they dont have to anymore and many will like this i am sure....as for myself well i think MMORPGs r getting too easy anyway now u take away the need to build a pt in a certain way and before we know it we dont even need to pt anymore at all and we r playing RPGs with a chat window.

    LoL ok maybe that's not really gonna happen but u know what i mean surely will make lots of stuff easier but do we really need MMORPGS to be even easier??

  • haibanehaibane Member Posts: 178

    Well all these infos are getting me more and more worried, but at least they go towards something different. Let's hope that it will deliver something good and enjoyable, and will not end being a dud.

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