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Better design needed for lack of vertical movement not to be frustrating
maddbomber83
Member Posts: 422
OP changed to better avoid trolls.
There is a level 1 leve (GL or Quest) that spawns the mob in a ravine. To get to the ravine you must travel south a ways and then come down it from the south heading north. This causes you to enter the next area and that abandons your GL.
Because this game does not have vertical movement there are extra design considerations needed.
Required mobs should not spawn in such a way that getting to them abandons your GL and/or moving to the next area should not cause your level to abandon.
Granted this is most likely a bug or oversight, but it did make me think further about this topic (the lack of vertical mechanic in a game is no issue with me as long as the game is designed so that you don't feel the need for vertical movement).
The map should be designed so that the player does not feel the need for vertical movement to get around.
If there is a height difference it should be drastic enough that the player would not consider it as a viable route. It is very frustrating to come up on a dip in the ground (less than half the height of a human character) and not be able to pass. Instead it should be at least the height of the character.
Textures also need to play a part. If you have all rocky textures on a height difference and then add an area of grass it makes the player think that must be a path when its really an invisible wall of frustration.
A climb option for some areas would be of benifit (something to add later in the game maybe).
Say you come up on a cliff, you could go to your menu screen and select climb down (kinda how you use the lift in the city). This would be more for flavor. Huh, they do have vertical movement in this game!
I should add that games that do have vertical movement still suffer from frustration problems. There are areas that you try and get to that your pixels show you able to get to but some invisable wall keeps you from getting to them even with vertical movement. Again, poor design.
My OP has been quoted below so you can see where I accidently fed the trolls.
Originally posted by maddbomber83
Go kill 6 mountain goat things.
You kill 5 mountain goat things.
Oh look, #6 is below that cliff over there.
Look at map; follow black lines to the one entrance to where the mountain goat thing is.
Quest abandoned? But I just found my way to the mountain goat guy and I have 25 minutes left! WTF....
Seriously, if you have two conflicting mechanics then you need to fix one of them. Going out of range for your quest because you couldn't just jump down some rocks is retarded. Get rid of the out of range or let people jump/fall.
Edit:
I should add that when your quest gets abondoned or your fail it, you don't just go restart it. Say hello to 48 hours of frustration (or doing something else).
Comments
Ya i agree with everything u said, those are the reasons i will not be playing, and the mouse issue.
I think that problem is more easily fixed by simply changing the range mechanic on leves...or making it so you can retake them if you fail (which is how it should be since you can d/c and fail).
END OF LINE_
~V
There are range mechanics on leves?
I didn't even notice.
Getting a failure during a behest or leve because you DC'd on the other hand needs to be fixed.
yea being able to leap off a small cliff by selecting it menu (it can be done without adding jumping) would be nice.
just to speed up getting around places.
and agreed on the DC'ed Leve fail thing too.
Welcome to the past, welcome to mmos going back in time instead of improving lol
Seriously..i find it mindbogling that some ff14 fans will just say its a feature and support the closed narrow minded japanese developers...not having jump is plain retarded imo.
FFXI was fine for how many years without jumping? 7yrs (9 in Japan).
What does jumping really add to the game? Hundereds of places for you to get stuck in and have to wait for an hour for your return cooldown to come up to get sent back to town or a wait for a gm to get you out of a constant fall where you cant even try to use your return.
yes jumping can add some aspects to the game, but more often than not it leads to people standing arounf everywhere jumping like little children who need some ridelin. Anything that i have ever NEEDED to jump on in any other MMO could have just had a path to walk up and not needed jump. Jumping off clifts instead of walking around is nice, but is just the lazy way around or a cheap way to lose agro from something you cant fight.
Jumping is obviously an extension of the immersion of an MMO. To leave it out is ridiculous in a fully 3d supposedly advanced game in 2010. I agree jumping would add more work to development. So what. Let them actually work for the money they are going to make, what's wrong with that?
"I'm not cheap I'm incredibly subconsciously financially optimized"
"The worst part of censorship is ------------------"
I'm gonna go register the domain "FF14suxcuztheresnojumpingQQ.com"
Given all the threads just on this site about it... let alone other gaming sites... that's gotta be the most popular topic in the entire interwebz!
Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level, then beat you with experience.
Now seeing as how many little bugs MMOs have and get, and the mass amount of content that is to be made for them, do we realy want the devs to spent all the time that is required to get the jumping animation to look natural in each area, spend time making sure every little corner can not let us get stuck in, make sure bounderies are made just right so we do not jump into them in such a way as we can get stuck, or spend it making sure the content we have and will soon be recieving is as good as it can be?
Jumping is nice, we can do it in real life, but it adds alot of glitches to games, and truthfully there are VERY FEW places that being able to jump really adds any useful content to the game.
Now if they added an option that we could jump off of some cliffs where it would be usefull (with the chance of posibly dieing if it is too high for your current level/hp), that would be nice, but as started earlier its just going to be a short cut for lazy people who do not want to walk.
i dont get why people keep trolling about this .The op clearly have no idea what he is talking bout, as i stated on my last post.
The game have no jump , no swim , and no pvp.If any of those its a must for you to play it , then dont. I am ( an many others ) just not intrested in whatever you have to say about this feautures in particular. There is already a bunch of threads in general discussion of jumpers vs no jumpers, not really a point to keep talking bout the subject when there are many other thins that do matter that needs improvement.
Old news, old news. move on people.
And Skieve you obviously can't read my post. As with most of the people replying here. I don't care about jumping, I care that you can't get places without some retarded range mechanic messing you up. The Leve has you kill 6 of those ram things (not the big ones, but the small sheep looking ones). This has happend to me and my wife on her game. They put one of those rams near the big crabs to the south along the water (although not on a beach, on the cliffs above the water). You have to go all the way around and aproach the area from the south. When you get near the sloap you get a message saying that the leve has been abandoned. Suckage.
No you don't need to jump and I don't care about that, but if you are going to design a game without jumping in it then DESIGN THE GAME SO YOU DONT HAVE TO JUMP. Its that simple.
As for the other title readers who don't bother to read a very short post and jump on the OMFG HE SAID NO JUMPING MUST BE A NEWB GO PLAY ANOTHER GAME get a friggin clue. You are on a forum to read and interact not stroke your e peen.
I have to say I fully agree with everything you said. I don't mind dealing this these type of game mechanics in FFXI, but in 2010 it is just unacceptable. P.S. I don't want this game to be like WOW but a MMO in 2010 without jumping or falling will only be a niche game that a few people like.
Ummm don't think you're overeacting a bit here? I've been playing mmo's since the launch of SWG and have played somewhere around ten or more mmo's in that time the only game I recall getting stuck being an issue big or small was SWG and WOW both only for short times too.
While I can kind of agree with the point about using it to lose aggro which I do often haha I still don't think it matters much if devs cared they could make the mobs follow you off of a cliff. Regardless if not having jump is creating the kinds of problems the op and the next few responders said then I can't say for sure not having a jump function isn't a problem, of course there are other ways they could fix those problems but if that many of the people who want to play want it anyway why not use the option that makes more people happy?
And honestly why do you care if people spend there time jumping around like they need ritalin, I wish they'd make a pill for people who spend too much time worrying about the insignificant actions of others.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
Then why don't YOU got and discuss those things? You don't want jumping in the game so it's obvious you have decided the topic is a waste of time for you yet here you are trolling a topic about that exact same subject. Why not go post a thread on something you feel is integral to the game so people can come and troll it and say how unimportant that feature is.
My feeling is we know there are a great many people who don't want the function why pay any mind to it then? If I simply didn't care I would ignore it personally no need to draw battle lines within the community over something the devs obviously don't care about either.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
Then is clearly a bug, since i can tell you i havent found not 1 GL that you failed just for geting far away from were the enemy is. Not a reason to start a thread .I mean you know what a beta is right ?. If i come and post everytime i get a bug on the game atm, and not simply inputing my feed back on beta test site,you get the idea. what are you in the beta for in the first place, to make the game better by release, not to come complain about a feature just becouse 1 GL isnt working correctly.
Seriously , comon, you cant posibly belive you start a thread with that title and expect some sympathy.When what you describe as a everyday issue is nothin more than a problem with 1 single quest.
Mainly becouse the info he is puting is misleading , and what he puts like the end of the world is a simple problem with a simple quest.I dont care for jumping and i dont care if it has it or not, i never said i didnt whant jumping.The problem is you dont get it in your skull it doesnt have it and is not going to have it, why keep going at it then.Masochism ?
You know what , i give up, your right. Im done wasting my time trying to explain thins to people who dont understand reasoning, and just start bitching for every single problem they encounter in a beta outside of beta forums.Im going back to the beta to do what i was given a account for . To make the game better for release and not to bitch about somethin as trivial as this.
Have a nice day.
FINALLY an OP that has a decent stance as to why this game could use jumping.
Took 100's of BS tries from feebs to get to this point, but I'm glad it actually got here.
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now i'm guessing that things are not instanced, so wouldnt it make sence to just wait for one more to respawn? i cant amagin that there are exactly 6 that you need to kill and only 6 there.
and if this is truely a real bug, then it is a BUG and this is the type of thing that we have things called beta testing to find so that it can be fixed before the general public has to deal with it in the actual release.
i guess jumping off the cliff could fix the issue, but the real issue is for you if you moved away the quest ended (thou other posters have said how this has never happened to them, so most likely a bug) and the scary thing is your more conserned about jumping being added to get to the 6th one then the devs fixing the bug that caused your issue
its beta, and bugs like this sould be expected, as if they knew no such bugs existed they would not need to have a beta test and we all would be playing FFXIV right now
@OP - A friend and I had the exact same thing happen to us last night on that GL. The first 5 mini sheep are easy to navigate toward. The last mini sheep was down in the gorge on the right as you are exiting Limsa Lominsa. There is no fast way to get down that gorge. You have to walk far to the south and navigate over a small land bridge. As soon as you go over that bridge you are considered Out of Range and you abandon the GL. I walked down first and got the notification, my friend walked down a couple minutes later, same thing happened. At first I thought it was an issue with distance from the party leader, but nope it had to do with distance from the Aetheryte that starts your GL. Once you get that far south you are in the next Atheryte area for GL.
@Skieve - You obviously haven't done enough GLs or you would have already found this issue. I thought the OP was perfectly clear. He did not emphasize jumping. His title even says "jumping OR FALLING" to prove his point.
@KogaDrake - You can't wait for respawns. Guildleves spawn the mobs for you and your party. They are special, no one else can kill them but you. So when it says go kill 10 sheep, you have to kill the 10 sheep that it spawned for you. They appear on your mini-map. Usually 2 or 3 will only spawn at a time, then the mission will spawn 2 or 3 more and you will have to move to the new location.
Edit - Because trollers are so lame. Ceforlife should learn to read, or take some reading comprehension classes. What's funny is I bet he/she would be the best to cry when they got that guildleve and it abandoned because they could jump/fail down the cliff to the mobs.
Also, I'm not sure if they can easily fix the issue. The only easy fix I can think of is to not let Guildleves spawn mobs in that gorge, or make a new route off the road that leads down into it right beside the entrance to Limsa Lominsa. This issue is bound to crop up again in other areas. My only guess is that it involves each Aetheryte camp having an invisible border around it to spawn mobs. If you cross the invisible border you enter a new camp and abandon any missions from the old camp. This makes perfect sense for that gorge, because you have to go down near the next camp in and then walk back up to go to the gorge.
Really? I didn't see that statement anywhere in his post. In fact, I read this...
"Get rid of the out of range or let people jump/fall."
So basically, he is just asking them to fix the Out of Range for GL or implement a feature to let people get down cliffs to the quest objective. Not sure how this implies that WoW was made for him. Just because you find a bug or don't like one thing about a game doesn't mean that you would ever enjoy WoW.
I don't miss jumping, but I can say there are plenty of little cliffs that are shorter than my hyur is tall and I can't fall off them. So I have to run the long way around. In real life I would just slide down the side, jump, fall, or whatever. If they had options to fall and climb that would be awesome. Otherwise, the landscape or GL need to be reworked to avoid the issues the OP is experiencing.
this is what u get when devs are focused on making u grind than actually have fun. then when the game fails, they blame Blizzard
Although I am deadset against most argument that people give for jumping/falling/z-coordinates, the situation maddbomber described does sound like a definite flaw in the game which needs to be addressed. However, I am inclined to think that what's actually happening is:
a.) That is not a flaw but a puzzle in which you are supposed to find your way down to that area without leaving the leve area, and he failed to figure it out. The leve, then would be not just a test of your ability to fight but also a test of your knowledge of the surrounding area. Or...
b.) S-E already knows about that problem due to the beta testing, and has addressed it or is in the process of addressing it. As quite a few others have stated, the later stages of the beta are intended mostly for data mining purposes moreso than bug hunting. If that leve is unfinishable due to the topography, S-E is definitely going to notice that there's a guildleve with a 100% failure rate. In fact, even if it's just random chance that the mob sometimes appears in an unreachable area, they're still going to notice the increased number of failures on that level or at that node.