Well since i dont play an MMORPG only for the lvling up part it does not concern me too much.
I play mainly to have fun go around explore do some adventures with friends and couldn't care less about exp while i do that.
Sure i do wanna lvl up to but i really doubt ill ever have problems hitting the 0exp mark while doing so.
I mean come on doing the same thing for 15 hrs without break??? Naaa doesn't sound like fun at all besides if i would do that i imagine i would get a few lvls which means i would have to make sure my subjobs r lvled so i can use all the best ability's from all classes.
I know a lot of the beta Testers did hit the Surplus rather quick and that of course did course a lot of concern but all u need to do is inform yourself (that doesn't mean listening to ppls with no clue) SE explained why it happened that fast in Beta phase 3 and hell that's what u do the Beta for to find this mistakes and correct them....sadly too many so called testers only "test" for the own amusement and call FIRE as soon as something is not to there liking....
Anyway i just cant understand what the fun is in just wanting to lvl up as fast as possible but maybe its just me
I started RPGs over 22 years ago with DSA (pen and paper) and always played for the adventure and if it happened that at the end of the day my actions got rewarded with a lvl up that was cool but not why i played the adventure to begin with.
I do understand that everyone liked different stuff and i really try to understand different opinions but honestly i just cant see when an RPG became an race for the highest lvl the biggest weapon the shiniest armor or w/e to me it seems that maybe ppls who only wanna race the other ppls should try another genre maybe a Racegame.....
This system doesn't sound that great. Players can restrain themselves if they want, but forcing it on everyone? I don't really care though since I wont be etting this game. Or don't plan to anyway.
I it didn't have the Final Fantasy name most people wouldn't give this a look over. It'd just be another generic crappy mmo from japan. Inconvenient and slow gameplay and retarded controls does not make a game hardcore and innovative.
Ohh... I would actually give you an "I agree" but you are blatantly wrong, I leveled 5 classes and got surplus on 4 of them, after 48 hours, the first class (main one) did not get this crap and I was actually "hey! I got no surplus! they removed it! this game is cool now!" but realized after another level that it was my pure imagination... as the surplus started to appear again.. and Im telling you, THIS with a normal playtime situation (weekend warrior!) so don't tell me that this is a good Idea because it is not, it is pure crap and you have to check the feedback forums of the beta full of rants and complains about this and when it is REMOVED, because is A GAME BREAKING EXPERIENCE for the 90% of a normal playerbase, NO ONE likes this idea, and the ones that claim it is good, they pretty sure did not even tested this game as it is now."
Screw that, I don't care that playing 5hours+ isn't healthy or that I need to spend more time doing something else just because they wanna gimp my play time. If u can't play for more than 2 hours a day thats good for you, but don't sit there telling me how the hell I should live my life. If I wanna play for 24 hours end, I can do so if I please. If u cant do the same guess what, tough cookies. People who will and/or might have free time to play wont be able to level up their characters because of this retarded fatigue system. Good going SE, thank you for nerfing a game right before its release. I've already cancelled my pre-order.
I see a lot of "they are taking something away from me" in these posts. They aren't. They never gave it to anyone. Like all games you either play within the mechanics or don't play. A lot of people play EVE and it's system XPs you by real time, no grinding for higher levels there.
I think what people are missing is that not only does it keep the playing field even for casual players and grinders, it also gives you the time to look around. This game is a a lot about environment and immersion. The devs have spent a lot of time on detail. If you don't take the time to socialize beyond "mage, stand there and cast this when that comes here", explore, get into the story line a bit and generally enjoy the game, you are missing a lot. They are creating a place where people can "live" not where you grind your bumm off to get to endgame so you can brag about how "uber l337" you are.
If you want to grind and brag, stay with whatever your game is and don't play this one. I, personally, am looking forward to it and applaud SE for making their game the way they want. You don't need to gripe about it, just don't play if you don't like it.
First, I understand both sides of the argument and I feel for both. Really. Truly. Bah.
Let's address the one issue that everyone is overlooking. This isn't a low end game. For the people who will play this (not me as my computer can't handle the benchmark) they will probably have invested a decent amount of money into their computer and would not appreciate any type of restrictions placed on being able to play.
So this game spells fail on many levels.
1. The need for a decent computer keeps a lot of casual player away (the same people who would benefit from fatigue)
2. The monthly cost for playing when so many games are going FTP (lotro, eq2) or coming down the pipeline (vindictus, cataclysm, DCUO, Star Wars, Guild Wars 2, Tera) that most people will just overlook this release and just keep on trucking.
3. Overall game mechanics are already disliked by those who tried the game.
While i like the FF franchise, I have not like anything since X and i doubt if FFIV will be anything but the failure of FFXI.
Its not healthy to play 4-5 hours per day. So why should MMO games promote such gamestyle? Its about time I would say.
This feature will not promote less play time. You still have to level different jobs, level different characters then level their different jobs. There is still a lot to do. All this does is slow down level cap. Not sure if this is good or not. Sometimes it is a boon to have power gamers level to cap so they can report all the bugs and have the devs start working on them.
Bravo, finally a game that recognizes that some people have a life outside of gaming.
If you are gaming 5+ hours a day and are not getting paid, you may want to rethink your life and I'm not saying that to be a jerk or create controversy. It's simply that, unless you have tons of time to waste for whatever reason, chances are something in your life is taking a backseat when you are spending that much time gaming and it can't be healthy. Finally a game that recognizes that and is moving in the opposite direction of encouraging people to play for countless hours.
Again, this feature/system will not promote less play time. All you have to do is switch to a different job and level again! There will still be alt characters to level too.
You linked the the article from the 24th, but did you bother to read the two articles posted the next day? The second one in particular is interesting, as it has the original Japanese text of the message posted to the ffivcore messageboards. Admittedly the English translation below the article should say "8 hours worth" instead of "8 hours", or in other words "the predetermined amount of XP Square thinks a person would be able to get in eight hours", but in the comments this is clarified and discussed.
Did Sankaku troll? Or did they post the information available to them at the time, subsequently clarifying and posting more relevant information as it came out? Funny that the entire first part of your article is based on three-day-old information that was rebuked and clarified the very next day. And also funny that you mention evaluating your sources, but your only source seems to be a translated version of information posted to Sankaku 48 hours ago.
A poor idea for a system that clearly wasn't thought out very well.
Let's say you buy the game and play for a few weeks and like it. You decide to recommend it to a friend who ends up buying it. Your friend would like to level up to where you are in order to be able to group up with you. With this new system, it becomes impossible for your friend to really ever catch up since his progress will have articifical restraints.
This system also will create bottlenecks in leveling areas as the initial pack of people who buy the game level up together at the same speed. This sounds to me like the devs know the end game is severely lacking and they are using this system to stall the players long enough to add some content.
Which is so much different from every other MMO where if you started first and you and your friend are playing the same amount of time he will never catch up?
Anyone who focuses on "Catching up" in levels in an MMO will always be disappointed, we hear it every day with current MMOs as is. The "I want to be at end game now and it feels like a grind because I can't be there instantly" group feel that way about MMOs in general.
Overall I like the system, but that is also because I'm a fan of Asheron's Call and I can see how if it had this system then Unattended Combat Macroing wouldn't ever have become such a big issue. Since having a bot killing things 24/7 would hit a cap quickly and not actually be gaining ground. It wouldn't effect the UCMing for money/items though.
The problem is they should have listed this as a "feature" a long time ago, before people began to pre-order and before people got invested. I bet the only reason they explained the system was the mass of pre-order cancellations.
This is a huge playstyle feature. All play styles are valid, because they are personal. It is childish to sit here and say "OMG, why do you like to rush, why do you have to be an achiever all the time?" That's their playstyle, and they have a right to it just as you have your slow playstyle. Had SE been upfront about a feature that would blow their playstyle out of the water, you wouldn't have to childishly tell them to go play another game. At least since SE has been forced to talk, they can go cancel their orders.
Will this work out for SE? I don't know. It reminds me of the parents in Australia who think it's unfair that the Asian kids take all the best college spots because they go to cram school on Saturday. Maybe they can use this as a precedent in court to block Asian kids from cram school :P.
EDIT: People say this system is to hide the end game. It occurs to me they are giving deals to people who have both FFXI and FFIV accounts. *Cough* This could be a reason why someone would keep their FFXI acct...?
Sweet news, sounds like I will have a lot less folks that are gonna be complaining non stop playing this game. Maybe they are doing this just for the FF fans to weed the complainers!
It sounds like a good idea. I am willing to try and it see how it works. I love how people continuously cry about getting something different, and when they get something different, they cry about that too.
Sweet news, sounds like I will have a lot less folks that are gonna be complaining non stop playing this game. Maybe they are doing this just for the FF fans to weed the complainers!
END OF LINE_
~V
So you admit FF players lack the ability to think for themselves?
It's so obvious now.
I kill other players because they're smarter than AI, sometimes.
If you suggest leveling alts as a workaround, that entirely defeats the idea of justifying experience bonuses/penalties as being for the good of the player.
It seems to me that the real issue is that you need some form of diminishing returns to get the best bang for the buck in development - preventing power gamers from blowing through the entire game instantly while allowing casual players to experience the whole game. Like a handicap in golf, you want to tweak the difficulty to match the player's ability and desire to push the frontiers, not develop whole seperate games for different tiers of competitiveness/obsessiveness.
People are letting this fatigue system turn them into retards.. Do they not understand how FFXIV jobs work? Are they that ignorant to even listen or research? It's like one dude drank a cup of retard juice and said it was good so everyone had a cup... Bunch of f'n retards
If you play wow and you lvl your toon to 80 but stop training in skills at lvl 40 is your class going to be able to tank at 80, dps at 80, or heal at 80????? The answer is NO you f'n retards... same applies to FFXIV if you don't get skills from another class, then you are useless to every group at max lvl you f'n retards
Not to just pick on you, but it looks like people on both sides of the fence have been drinking from the same fountain. It's an issue that has polarized the entire community in such a way that it has become an Us vs. Them mentality.
People that are completely against this are opposed to it for all the wrong reasons: I can't level as fast! I won't play anymore if I can't keep getting experience!
People that are for the system are just as bad: Playing too long is unhealthy! I hate people who refuse to just hang out and enjoy the game world! It will keep the playerbase together!
The simple fact is; bad system is bad. I'm sorry, but most of the arguments for this system essentially boil down to an individual being thrilled that others will be forced to play the game in such a way that better suits that individual. That said, whether or not I agree with those agaist the system, the essence of their arguments is simply that they want to play how they want to play, and not be restricted in such a way by the game itself. That's where this entire thing turns into crap. No dev should actively seek to punish those with more time than others. I wouldn't say the same over punishing certain playstyles (griefers, chat trolls, scammers, botters, etc.) but in this particular instance I think it's completely and utterly absurd that the game itself is trying to tell you to stop playing. I've reached a point where I generally can't stand cynicism by and large, but I can't help but wonder what their ulterior motive is here, because it sure seems like there'd have to be one to try and force such a system on your players. I mean, some of you can claim that it's better for the players' personal health/safety all you want, but in the same breath say "Go play something else if you don't like it!". That's exactly what they'll do, or they'll play within the restrictions and log off to do something else. So much for that argument...
The main thing that the casuals should understand here is that it doesn't work any more for them than anyone else. As some have pointed out - it will shut down those weekend binges that many players really love to get into sometimes. It will keep any player joining the game later from ever having the chance to equal up to their buddies by simply pushing a little harder. The hardcores will still be leaps and bounds ahead of the casuals in regards to money, sub-job levels, crafting, and progress overall. To think that an artificial restriction such as this changes anything at all is ignorance at best, and denial at worst, and those of you that are somehow thrilled over the idea really need to take a step back yourselves. I mean, it seems to me that some people that claim to be casuals are more ecstatic about the idea of equal progression than some are upset about it. These folks are jumping on a high-horse saying it will keep the whiners out, all the while showing their own ugly motivations for supporting it, are being far more selfish than those just wanting it to be what it is; a game you play at your own leisure.
I just don't see how anyone can logically justify such a feature, no matter the playstyle.
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." George Bernard Shaw
What is a cynic? A man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing. Oscar Wilde
If you suggest leveling alts as a workaround, that entirely defeats the idea of justifying experience bonuses/penalties as being for the good of the player.
It seems to me that the real issue is that you need some form of diminishing returns to get the best bang for the buck in development - preventing power gamers from blowing through the entire game instantly while allowing casual players to experience the whole game. Like a handicap in golf, you want to tweak the difficulty to match the player's ability and desire to push the frontiers, not develop whole seperate games for different tiers of competitiveness/obsessiveness.
What's ever stopped them in the past? Other people leveling faster?
Sweet news, sounds like I will have a lot less folks that are gonna be complaining non stop playing this game. Maybe they are doing this just for the FF fans to weed the complainers! END OF LINE_ ~V
So you admit FF players lack the ability to think for themselves?
It's so obvious now.
how much do u have to think when all u do is pve mobs who does samething over and over.
Sweet news, sounds like I will have a lot less folks that are gonna be complaining non stop playing this game. Maybe they are doing this just for the FF fans to weed the complainers!
END OF LINE_
~V
Yeah, all 12 of you that actually purchase the game will have a big laugh about it.
In any case, pre-order is cancelled and I'll be enjoying my time with the slew of MMOs coming out over the next 6-9 months.
Comments
Well since i dont play an MMORPG only for the lvling up part it does not concern me too much.
I play mainly to have fun go around explore do some adventures with friends and couldn't care less about exp while i do that.
Sure i do wanna lvl up to but i really doubt ill ever have problems hitting the 0exp mark while doing so.
I mean come on doing the same thing for 15 hrs without break??? Naaa doesn't sound like fun at all besides if i would do that i imagine i would get a few lvls which means i would have to make sure my subjobs r lvled so i can use all the best ability's from all classes.
I know a lot of the beta Testers did hit the Surplus rather quick and that of course did course a lot of concern but all u need to do is inform yourself (that doesn't mean listening to ppls with no clue) SE explained why it happened that fast in Beta phase 3 and hell that's what u do the Beta for to find this mistakes and correct them....sadly too many so called testers only "test" for the own amusement and call FIRE as soon as something is not to there liking....
Anyway i just cant understand what the fun is in just wanting to lvl up as fast as possible but maybe its just me
I started RPGs over 22 years ago with DSA (pen and paper) and always played for the adventure and if it happened that at the end of the day my actions got rewarded with a lvl up that was cool but not why i played the adventure to begin with.
I do understand that everyone liked different stuff and i really try to understand different opinions but honestly i just cant see when an RPG became an race for the highest lvl the biggest weapon the shiniest armor or w/e to me it seems that maybe ppls who only wanna race the other ppls should try another genre maybe a Racegame.....
You make complete sense as i was thinking that too.
Child of the Stars
This system doesn't sound that great. Players can restrain themselves if they want, but forcing it on everyone? I don't really care though since I wont be etting this game. Or don't plan to anyway.
I it didn't have the Final Fantasy name most people wouldn't give this a look over. It'd just be another generic crappy mmo from japan. Inconvenient and slow gameplay and retarded controls does not make a game hardcore and innovative.
Child of the Stars
Screw that, I don't care that playing 5hours+ isn't healthy or that I need to spend more time doing something else just because they wanna gimp my play time. If u can't play for more than 2 hours a day thats good for you, but don't sit there telling me how the hell I should live my life. If I wanna play for 24 hours end, I can do so if I please. If u cant do the same guess what, tough cookies. People who will and/or might have free time to play wont be able to level up their characters because of this retarded fatigue system. Good going SE, thank you for nerfing a game right before its release. I've already cancelled my pre-order.
I see a lot of "they are taking something away from me" in these posts. They aren't. They never gave it to anyone. Like all games you either play within the mechanics or don't play. A lot of people play EVE and it's system XPs you by real time, no grinding for higher levels there.
I think what people are missing is that not only does it keep the playing field even for casual players and grinders, it also gives you the time to look around. This game is a a lot about environment and immersion. The devs have spent a lot of time on detail. If you don't take the time to socialize beyond "mage, stand there and cast this when that comes here", explore, get into the story line a bit and generally enjoy the game, you are missing a lot. They are creating a place where people can "live" not where you grind your bumm off to get to endgame so you can brag about how "uber l337" you are.
If you want to grind and brag, stay with whatever your game is and don't play this one. I, personally, am looking forward to it and applaud SE for making their game the way they want. You don't need to gripe about it, just don't play if you don't like it.
Funny... the one time this site ever says anything about this game it has to be focused on a negative aspect.
Figures...
First, I understand both sides of the argument and I feel for both. Really. Truly. Bah.
Let's address the one issue that everyone is overlooking. This isn't a low end game. For the people who will play this (not me as my computer can't handle the benchmark) they will probably have invested a decent amount of money into their computer and would not appreciate any type of restrictions placed on being able to play.
So this game spells fail on many levels.
1. The need for a decent computer keeps a lot of casual player away (the same people who would benefit from fatigue)
2. The monthly cost for playing when so many games are going FTP (lotro, eq2) or coming down the pipeline (vindictus, cataclysm, DCUO, Star Wars, Guild Wars 2, Tera) that most people will just overlook this release and just keep on trucking.
3. Overall game mechanics are already disliked by those who tried the game.
While i like the FF franchise, I have not like anything since X and i doubt if FFIV will be anything but the failure of FFXI.
This feature will not promote less play time. You still have to level different jobs, level different characters then level their different jobs. There is still a lot to do. All this does is slow down level cap. Not sure if this is good or not. Sometimes it is a boon to have power gamers level to cap so they can report all the bugs and have the devs start working on them.
Again, this feature/system will not promote less play time. All you have to do is switch to a different job and level again! There will still be alt characters to level too.
Playing Devil's Advocate for Sankaku:
You linked the the article from the 24th, but did you bother to read the two articles posted the next day? The second one in particular is interesting, as it has the original Japanese text of the message posted to the ffivcore messageboards. Admittedly the English translation below the article should say "8 hours worth" instead of "8 hours", or in other words "the predetermined amount of XP Square thinks a person would be able to get in eight hours", but in the comments this is clarified and discussed.
Did Sankaku troll? Or did they post the information available to them at the time, subsequently clarifying and posting more relevant information as it came out? Funny that the entire first part of your article is based on three-day-old information that was rebuked and clarified the very next day. And also funny that you mention evaluating your sources, but your only source seems to be a translated version of information posted to Sankaku 48 hours ago.
Which is so much different from every other MMO where if you started first and you and your friend are playing the same amount of time he will never catch up?
Anyone who focuses on "Catching up" in levels in an MMO will always be disappointed, we hear it every day with current MMOs as is. The "I want to be at end game now and it feels like a grind because I can't be there instantly" group feel that way about MMOs in general.
Overall I like the system, but that is also because I'm a fan of Asheron's Call and I can see how if it had this system then Unattended Combat Macroing wouldn't ever have become such a big issue. Since having a bot killing things 24/7 would hit a cap quickly and not actually be gaining ground. It wouldn't effect the UCMing for money/items though.
The problem is they should have listed this as a "feature" a long time ago, before people began to pre-order and before people got invested. I bet the only reason they explained the system was the mass of pre-order cancellations.
This is a huge playstyle feature. All play styles are valid, because they are personal. It is childish to sit here and say "OMG, why do you like to rush, why do you have to be an achiever all the time?" That's their playstyle, and they have a right to it just as you have your slow playstyle. Had SE been upfront about a feature that would blow their playstyle out of the water, you wouldn't have to childishly tell them to go play another game. At least since SE has been forced to talk, they can go cancel their orders.
Will this work out for SE? I don't know. It reminds me of the parents in Australia who think it's unfair that the Asian kids take all the best college spots because they go to cram school on Saturday. Maybe they can use this as a precedent in court to block Asian kids from cram school :P.
EDIT: People say this system is to hide the end game. It occurs to me they are giving deals to people who have both FFXI and FFIV accounts. *Cough* This could be a reason why someone would keep their FFXI acct...?
Sweet news, sounds like I will have a lot less folks that are gonna be complaining non stop playing this game. Maybe they are doing this just for the FF fans to weed the complainers!
END OF LINE_
~V
It sounds like a good idea. I am willing to try and it see how it works. I love how people continuously cry about getting something different, and when they get something different, they cry about that too.
So you admit FF players lack the ability to think for themselves?
It's so obvious now.
I kill other players because they're smarter than AI, sometimes.
If you suggest leveling alts as a workaround, that entirely defeats the idea of justifying experience bonuses/penalties as being for the good of the player.
It seems to me that the real issue is that you need some form of diminishing returns to get the best bang for the buck in development - preventing power gamers from blowing through the entire game instantly while allowing casual players to experience the whole game. Like a handicap in golf, you want to tweak the difficulty to match the player's ability and desire to push the frontiers, not develop whole seperate games for different tiers of competitiveness/obsessiveness.
Not to just pick on you, but it looks like people on both sides of the fence have been drinking from the same fountain. It's an issue that has polarized the entire community in such a way that it has become an Us vs. Them mentality.
People that are completely against this are opposed to it for all the wrong reasons: I can't level as fast! I won't play anymore if I can't keep getting experience!
People that are for the system are just as bad: Playing too long is unhealthy! I hate people who refuse to just hang out and enjoy the game world! It will keep the playerbase together!
The simple fact is; bad system is bad. I'm sorry, but most of the arguments for this system essentially boil down to an individual being thrilled that others will be forced to play the game in such a way that better suits that individual. That said, whether or not I agree with those agaist the system, the essence of their arguments is simply that they want to play how they want to play, and not be restricted in such a way by the game itself. That's where this entire thing turns into crap. No dev should actively seek to punish those with more time than others. I wouldn't say the same over punishing certain playstyles (griefers, chat trolls, scammers, botters, etc.) but in this particular instance I think it's completely and utterly absurd that the game itself is trying to tell you to stop playing. I've reached a point where I generally can't stand cynicism by and large, but I can't help but wonder what their ulterior motive is here, because it sure seems like there'd have to be one to try and force such a system on your players. I mean, some of you can claim that it's better for the players' personal health/safety all you want, but in the same breath say "Go play something else if you don't like it!". That's exactly what they'll do, or they'll play within the restrictions and log off to do something else. So much for that argument...
The main thing that the casuals should understand here is that it doesn't work any more for them than anyone else. As some have pointed out - it will shut down those weekend binges that many players really love to get into sometimes. It will keep any player joining the game later from ever having the chance to equal up to their buddies by simply pushing a little harder. The hardcores will still be leaps and bounds ahead of the casuals in regards to money, sub-job levels, crafting, and progress overall. To think that an artificial restriction such as this changes anything at all is ignorance at best, and denial at worst, and those of you that are somehow thrilled over the idea really need to take a step back yourselves. I mean, it seems to me that some people that claim to be casuals are more ecstatic about the idea of equal progression than some are upset about it. These folks are jumping on a high-horse saying it will keep the whiners out, all the while showing their own ugly motivations for supporting it, are being far more selfish than those just wanting it to be what it is; a game you play at your own leisure.
I just don't see how anyone can logically justify such a feature, no matter the playstyle.
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."
George Bernard Shaw
What is a cynic? A man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.
Oscar Wilde
Says who?
What's ever stopped them in the past? Other people leveling faster?
Duster505?
:-)
3 hours - ok
2 hours - sure
1 hour- WTF
So you admit FF players lack the ability to think for themselves?
It's so obvious now.
how much do u have to think when all u do is pve mobs who does samething over and over.
I think this would be reasonable if you didnt have to pay to play
Yeah, all 12 of you that actually purchase the game will have a big laugh about it.
In any case, pre-order is cancelled and I'll be enjoying my time with the slew of MMOs coming out over the next 6-9 months.