I don't know why people are freaking out so much over the whole no PvP thing. Game doesn't need PvP to be good and I dread to imagine what FFXIV's PvP would look like with that quasi-turn based combat. Sure, there are games that don't have conventional PvP but theye experimented and the end result worked (Monster play from LOTRO, for example), but I'd rather take an excellent PvE game than for devs to waste time and resource on something that would in the end only be yet another tacked on feature that doesn't work or make sense in the game.
Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing.
Lack of any PvP confuses me. I thought some sort of battlegrounds have become a standard. I understand that this is a PvE focused game but that does not mean some bgs would somehow impact it in a negative way. Thats like saying WAR is a PvP focused game so it should not have any PvE questing. Hell even something like Darkfall has PvE even though it is basically the prelude to the PvP.
!!!??? No PvP? LOL? Tell me you were just joking please.
edit: Ok i see a 2nd poster kinda confirming it... Dunno what to say.
This is not a PvP game, apparently it is hard for some people to grasp that there are games that don't plan on offering that. The story line has no inner conflicts it's working together against a common enemy. /head hits keyboard
Why so touchy, if you dont like the topic, dont read it.
People actually like to discuss things on forums, if you dont want to be a part of it, dont read and dont post.
If they don't like the topic, or if they like the topic it is their right to post on it. The purpose of discussion is both sides and all opinions. Whether you like the post or not, he / she can post anything they want within the forum guidelines.
Seriously, its 2 endgames in MMO's...raiding or pvp, but preferably both.
Having no pvp will push people over in SWTOR and GW2 for sure.Im not saying its wrong, but besides hardcore pvp players you have people that like to pvp now and then as well, and its actualy ALOT of people that play that way.
I myself noticed it released next month so i thought id have a go at it because im bored, but no pvp at all ?...no way ill play this game.
I guess they dont need my money then ^^
And because your so VERY smart all ppl have a preference for PvP and PvP only which is why so much of the industry makes "WoW clones" only. Here's a newsflash for you: you're dead wrong. Your statement assumes PvP is needed to be successful and the fact is that's been proven wrong for the most part. Though FF11 doesn't have as large of a base as WoW, it is still a financial success [as in it stays in operating green]. If the case was "I want to play only against other players" then why does the Wii console pretty much triumph over PS3 and Xbox in sales? According to your statement the PvP aspect from games like COD and Socom should help to push these consoles above the Wii. And WoW clones are likely more dominant due to desires to replicate the success of WoW. If sandbox mmo's were the biggest thing then everyone would be off, rushing to clone Eve. Companies replicate success but they don't often start off as the beginning point of it. That's to say they didn't create everything and then release it, they copied stuff here and there until someone copies it and builds on it to have their product become a success (ie. WoW taking aspects from EQ and Ultima for their own game).
PvP is only a preference as far as mmo's. And I'll go out on a limb and assume you've (1)never played Star Wars Galaxies or (2) talked to the general audience who will buy SWTOR. They will mostly buy it because SWTOR is expected to be a return of Star Wars to a sandbox mmo and not because it will feature PvP. The WoW fanbase may enjoy GW2 and try that as well but assuming PvP kills a game is not only a long stretch, its actually a lie.
You don't have to enjoy FF11, you can even bash on its subscriber base being less than WoW, but it does make money and operates in the green. So that does mean your whole argument gets tossed out of the window. Can you do me a favor and do a little-fact check next time. I mean every time I see someone post something about PvP, grind or whatever I find myself wondering if its a little kid posting posing as a vet mmo player.
SWTOR is going to be a sandbox mmorpg then is it?
Thats interresting.
Expresso gave me a Hearthstone beta key.....I'm so happy
Originally posted by scuubeedoo So how will be PvP in this game? Are there factions/realms and if yes, how many? Would you describe it as group oriented or solo oriented PvP? Does it have instanced PvP? Does it have world PvP? Are there world PvP objectives? Does it have level tiers or it's free-to-gank? Is there a PvP on/off switch in order to stay safe when you PvE? Are there PvP-only abilities or abilities that work differently in PvP than PvE? Does it have duels?
Originally posted by Rzep Lack of any PvP confuses me. I thought some sort of battlegrounds have become a standard. I understand that this is a PvE focused game but that does not mean some bgs would somehow impact it in a negative way. Thats like saying WAR is a PvP focused game so it should not have any PvE questing. Hell even something like Darkfall has PvE even though it is basically the prelude to the PvP.
The majority of PvP games for the most part, need PvE in it sell or make some kind of sense. That's MMO, RPG or console or w/e.
A PvE game doesn't need PvP in it to sell.
That's why there is PvE in WAR. Plus the lore in WAR has to be explained by.. PvE quests. It's rather stupid to suggest something which goes against the lore of the game.
That's like saying the Skaven in Warhammer could side up with the dwarv.. doh. Never mind. :P If PvP games chose to break their lore on account of a buck, good for them. I like the fact that FF games don't break lore and have Taru types fighting Hume types just for some "status points". It's not in the lore.
FF lore is based on all races getting along to fight one common enemy while WAR (and just about every other PvP game out there today) is based pretty much on most of the races hating each other.
Too much negativity in a typical PVP game for most people in FFXIV to want to have to deal with.
I think someone should finally come out with a game that is 100% PvP and 0% PvE. No mobs at all to level off of, no raid dungeons. You get all your xp from ganking each other, and all your drops come from the player you defeat, his gear becomes your gear. Everyone starts out at lvl 1, and you just go in free for all PvP until you either give up or win!
Anyway, no PvP officially at this time in FFXIV. Some speculation of arenas to come after launch, but what exactly those will be is still not known. Oh and to the guy that said MMOs have only two things at the end, PvP and Raids, thats the WoW design, not the design of all MMOs.
(DISCLAIMER - The use of the word YOU in the above post is not directed at any one person in particular, but towards those who fall into the category itself - there is no personal attack here, neither intentional nor implied.)
I think someone should finally come out with a game that is 100% PvP and 0% PvE. No mobs at all to level off of, no raid dungeons. You get all your xp from ganking each other, and all your drops come from the player you defeat, his gear becomes your gear. Everyone starts out at lvl 1, and you just go in free for all PvP until you either give up or win!
I think they have that, just not MMOs. I'm sure there is a console game out there like that and tabletops are pretty much "Player vs Player" with no quests.
But an MMO like that wouldn't sell but to only a small segment of the gaming population. I don't know of any investors who would think that was a good investment product.
Most people don't pay $15/mo to actually BE the content. They want someone else to actually do some work for the fee and come up with interesting ideas, lol.
Lack of any PvP confuses me. I thought some sort of battlegrounds have become a standard. I understand that this is a PvE focused game but that does not mean some bgs would somehow impact it in a negative way. Thats like saying WAR is a PvP focused game so it should not have any PvE questing. Hell even something like Darkfall has PvE even though it is basically the prelude to the PvP.
Ehh, I wouldn't say that. Allowing players to attack other players at all (even if you don't put one iota of effort into balancing the classes) takes time to implement, so that takes a little time away from designing and refining the rest of the game. And since PvP that isn't balanced or nuanced makes for very bad PvP, you have your choice of either leaving it unfinished and generating a ton of bad publicity from your players who ragequit over how atrocious the PvP is OR you make the PvE game worse by changing the entire class/level system and many of the skills to allow for fair and fun PvP fights. Either way, the game suffers. I'd rather see them leave PvP out of it entirely. There are enough other games to PvP in.
Any of you happen to PvP in EQ? I don't know if it was ever improved, but for the first few years it was astoundingly unbalanced. It was clear that they had spent no time whatsoever considering how powerful the various spells and abilities would be against other characters.
then i saw the slow combat system.......very crapy.
then i saw the ps3 version pushed back to "sometimes next year".........ok i'm gonna just wait for GW2 then.
Trust me, nothing makes me more happier then knowing that players like you won't be in FF 14. Its awesome really.
I have to agree with you here. i've learned to take a strange sort of comfort when I see people whining and crying about things they don't like in an upcoming game... I kind of see it as weeding out the idiots.
They are going to do the same thing they did in 11 as they are doing here..
Finilize their pve... then finalize their pvp, they arent trying to do both at the same time. Not starting with pvp is no surprise to anyone who actually has been following final fantasy.
Quotations Those Who make peaceful resolutions impossible, make violent resolutions inevitable. John F. Kennedy
Life... is the shit that happens while you wait for moments that never come - Lester Freeman
Lie to no one. If there 's somebody close to you, you'll ruin it with a lie. If they're a stranger, who the fuck are they you gotta lie to them? - Willy Nelson
PVP ruins pve and final fantasies were always about the journey not who is the biggest epeen around.
Be glad they are adding an arena and later on more mini games with pvp... in ffxi there was only ballista I think were people could pvp.
Most people dont play PvP for the Epeen, but for the thrill.
The epeen guys slaughtering noobs arent really that competative ^^
PvP = Person vs Person
Edit :Most games exept FFA doesnt destroy "the Journey" either, because pvp is freedom of choise.
I completely agree with you, and I have every intention to buy this game, but I'm really sick of people saying "PvP ruins a game" which is not true at all. Unless you're talking about games like L2, in most games PvP is optional and more options is always good.
PVP ruins pve and final fantasies were always about the journey not who is the biggest epeen around.
Be glad they are adding an arena and later on more mini games with pvp... in ffxi there was only ballista I think were people could pvp.
Most people dont play PvP for the Epeen, but for the thrill.
The epeen guys slaughtering noobs arent really that competative ^^
PvP = Person vs Person
Edit :Most games exept FFA doesnt destroy "the Journey" either, because pvp is freedom of choise.
I completely agree with you, and I have every intention to buy this game, but I'm really sick of people saying "PvP ruins a game" which is not true at all. Unless you're talking about games like L2, in most games PvP is optional and more options is always good.
I enjoy PvP and, in fact, consider the way L2 is built almost entirely around it in various ways to be the best implementation of it I've personally experienced in any such MMO.
That said, XI has tons of options for people to engage in... about 23 or so separate activities, each one of them an entire system unto itself that one could invest a considerable amount of time into if they wished. Among those options are Brenner and Ballista, which are XI's answer to competitive play. They're separate activities, have no impact nor influence on the PvE game and are purely for players to have some fun in a more sports-like setting.
SE has already stated that if player demand is high enough, they would consider implementing such a feature in XIV, but it would be similar to Ballista/Brenner, and would not be at the top of their list.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Comments
I don't know why people are freaking out so much over the whole no PvP thing. Game doesn't need PvP to be good and I dread to imagine what FFXIV's PvP would look like with that quasi-turn based combat. Sure, there are games that don't have conventional PvP but theye experimented and the end result worked (Monster play from LOTRO, for example), but I'd rather take an excellent PvE game than for devs to waste time and resource on something that would in the end only be yet another tacked on feature that doesn't work or make sense in the game.
Lock this mod... There's nothing to discuss here.
Obvious troll is obvious.
But just to point a certain crowd in the right direction I give you those 2 link:
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/289118/page/1
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/269822/Would-you-play-a-100-PVE-MMO-No-PVP-at-all-.html
Lack of any PvP confuses me. I thought some sort of battlegrounds have become a standard. I understand that this is a PvE focused game but that does not mean some bgs would somehow impact it in a negative way. Thats like saying WAR is a PvP focused game so it should not have any PvE questing. Hell even something like Darkfall has PvE even though it is basically the prelude to the PvP.
yea no pvp in this game.
really too bad i was kind of excited about FF14.
then i herd there was no pvp......crappy.
then i saw the slow combat system.......very crapy.
then i saw the ps3 version pushed back to "sometimes next year".........ok i'm gonna just wait for GW2 then.
Correct me if I am wrong but arnt most PvP MMORPGS working more on balanciing the PvP in the game than actualy making new content ?
This is not a PvP game, apparently it is hard for some people to grasp that there are games that don't plan on offering that. The story line has no inner conflicts it's working together against a common enemy. /head hits keyboard
END OF LINE_
~V
If they don't like the topic, or if they like the topic it is their right to post on it. The purpose of discussion is both sides and all opinions. Whether you like the post or not, he / she can post anything they want within the forum guidelines.
END OF LINE_
~V
SWTOR is going to be a sandbox mmorpg then is it?
Thats interresting.
Expresso gave me a Hearthstone beta key.....I'm so happy
Made my day, thanks
"TO MICHAEL!"
Oh look!
There's a couple guys in FFXIV with facial hair.
Can we kill the silly topic now?
"TO MICHAEL!"
no pvp community = win
The majority of PvP games for the most part, need PvE in it sell or make some kind of sense. That's MMO, RPG or console or w/e.
A PvE game doesn't need PvP in it to sell.
That's why there is PvE in WAR. Plus the lore in WAR has to be explained by.. PvE quests. It's rather stupid to suggest something which goes against the lore of the game.
That's like saying the Skaven in Warhammer could side up with the dwarv.. doh. Never mind. :P If PvP games chose to break their lore on account of a buck, good for them. I like the fact that FF games don't break lore and have Taru types fighting Hume types just for some "status points". It's not in the lore.
FF lore is based on all races getting along to fight one common enemy while WAR (and just about every other PvP game out there today) is based pretty much on most of the races hating each other.
Too much negativity in a typical PVP game for most people in FFXIV to want to have to deal with.
"TO MICHAEL!"
I think someone should finally come out with a game that is 100% PvP and 0% PvE. No mobs at all to level off of, no raid dungeons. You get all your xp from ganking each other, and all your drops come from the player you defeat, his gear becomes your gear. Everyone starts out at lvl 1, and you just go in free for all PvP until you either give up or win!
Anyway, no PvP officially at this time in FFXIV. Some speculation of arenas to come after launch, but what exactly those will be is still not known. Oh and to the guy that said MMOs have only two things at the end, PvP and Raids, thats the WoW design, not the design of all MMOs.
(DISCLAIMER - The use of the word YOU in the above post is not directed at any one person in particular, but towards those who fall into the category itself - there is no personal attack here, neither intentional nor implied.)
I think they have that, just not MMOs. I'm sure there is a console game out there like that and tabletops are pretty much "Player vs Player" with no quests.
But an MMO like that wouldn't sell but to only a small segment of the gaming population. I don't know of any investors who would think that was a good investment product.
Most people don't pay $15/mo to actually BE the content. They want someone else to actually do some work for the fee and come up with interesting ideas, lol.
"TO MICHAEL!"
Trust me, nothing makes me more happier then knowing that players like you won't be in FF 14. Its awesome really.
90% of haters are begging for love. 10% just want a little attention -- Paulo Coelho
Ehh, I wouldn't say that. Allowing players to attack other players at all (even if you don't put one iota of effort into balancing the classes) takes time to implement, so that takes a little time away from designing and refining the rest of the game. And since PvP that isn't balanced or nuanced makes for very bad PvP, you have your choice of either leaving it unfinished and generating a ton of bad publicity from your players who ragequit over how atrocious the PvP is OR you make the PvE game worse by changing the entire class/level system and many of the skills to allow for fair and fun PvP fights. Either way, the game suffers. I'd rather see them leave PvP out of it entirely. There are enough other games to PvP in.
Any of you happen to PvP in EQ? I don't know if it was ever improved, but for the first few years it was astoundingly unbalanced. It was clear that they had spent no time whatsoever considering how powerful the various spells and abilities would be against other characters.
If there wont be any serious pvp( and well designed) in ffiv it will just havethe same fate ddo,lotro and many other strictly pve mmorpg's had
I have to agree with you here. i've learned to take a strange sort of comfort when I see people whining and crying about things they don't like in an upcoming game... I kind of see it as weeding out the idiots.
I can't think of anything to respond to this post that hasn't been said a hundred times before...
So, let's see what these 3 guys think about it...
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Thanks for the good laugh!
Man those lions are annoying, even if it was only for a few secs. lol
Annoying? No way! I want the one on the right for a pet!
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
They are going to do the same thing they did in 11 as they are doing here..
Finilize their pve... then finalize their pvp, they arent trying to do both at the same time. Not starting with pvp is no surprise to anyone who actually has been following final fantasy.
Quotations Those Who make peaceful resolutions impossible, make violent resolutions inevitable. John F. Kennedy
Life... is the shit that happens while you wait for moments that never come - Lester Freeman
Lie to no one. If there 's somebody close to you, you'll ruin it with a lie. If they're a stranger, who the fuck are they you gotta lie to them? - Willy Nelson
final fantasy isnt about pvp, its about cooperative online community gameplay, needing good friends to adventure with ect.
if you want a pvp mmo you have many options, ff is one of the few great pve franchises still making awesome pve games.
I completely agree with you, and I have every intention to buy this game, but I'm really sick of people saying "PvP ruins a game" which is not true at all. Unless you're talking about games like L2, in most games PvP is optional and more options is always good.
I enjoy PvP and, in fact, consider the way L2 is built almost entirely around it in various ways to be the best implementation of it I've personally experienced in any such MMO.
That said, XI has tons of options for people to engage in... about 23 or so separate activities, each one of them an entire system unto itself that one could invest a considerable amount of time into if they wished. Among those options are Brenner and Ballista, which are XI's answer to competitive play. They're separate activities, have no impact nor influence on the PvE game and are purely for players to have some fun in a more sports-like setting.
SE has already stated that if player demand is high enough, they would consider implementing such a feature in XIV, but it would be similar to Ballista/Brenner, and would not be at the top of their list.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops