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HOW can players put up with THIS?
bletsonius
Member UncommonPosts: 53
I was wandering the other night a simple question;
How us, gamers, have let the big producers create games that you need to run the same stage (call it instance, call it raid, call it scenario), win in it and still need to run it again in order to progress in the game (= loot).
HOW can the milions of gamers around the world accept and consider it a normality, the fact that after you complete a certain stage of the game, you need to complete it over and over again to actually get something from it?
I know no single player games that after you succeed in completing the X quest you need to do EXACTLY the same quest again! Maybe its the same play-style, yes, but you NEVER need to complete the same quest again and again!
How have been missled to believe that it is normal for a game to have limited content and to overcompensate for that is to require you to repeat playing that content over and over again!?
(This is an extract from this post)
Comments
because there's no profitability in the alternative. the best they can do is add stuff as margins allow and make them fun as heck to run over and over.
by this i guess you mean to say that, with the promise of sweet LOOT, we start drooling and our saliva form a small pond, making us unable to distiguish any of our other emotions amongst them being boredom, lack of mind processes and repetitive visuals...?
Have you ever heard of repeatable quests? Probably not the point of the thread though, as people do complain about grinding, they just, as you mentioned, consider it fine inside scripted instances for some magical reason.
Anyway, this is the reason I avoid WoW, I dislike "farming" instanced content (dungeons), especially in a MMORPG in which the the majority of the players are inside instances because they are the absolute end game content. When it's not instanced at least you can expect some factors to cause some change rather than the same scripted encounters and mob patterns over and over.
LOL something akin to your expressed thoughts.
so, if you may, jump to my other post here and tell me please, which is the best MMO that is "fun as heck to run over and over" because i still haven't found it!
I've replayed games for different endings, to see all the possible ways to solve quests, to farm gear, achievements, and probably plenty of other ways. Replayability is a huge element of making games.
The random element to killing monsters adds a layer of excitement. The trouble with the system is balancing too few with too many. Too few and players get bored extremely quickly and stop playing, too many and players burn out or take out their frustrations on the game or other players.
Developing content is extremely time consuming so making incentives for players to redo the content is good for both players and developers, but again its a balance that has to be maintained.
You demand that you only want to do content once, developers could turn around and demand that player should be happy with the 1 quest they can repeat endlessly. Making irrational demands doesn't mean you get them acknowledged or considered.
Think about it harder next time.
Edit: Action RPG's like Diablo are perfect examples of refuting your point because of its immense popularity as a game, and as a genre. They are the epitome of replaying the same level in search of the perfect drop. The balance here is good between factors such as progression, difficulty, and fun.
I think they really are just hoping that so long as they can keep you salivating for the next reward you wont realise that you are in fact EXTREMELY bored running this same content again. I quit when i was running one of said instances, my group was at a rest point between battles just about to ramp up another attack, when i voice inside my head said, " GOD I AM SO BORED, WHY AM I DOING THIS?" Logged off, unsubbed, havent played since.
Because your damned casual crowd doesn't know the difference.
I think that is the first time i actually read a hater-reply about *casual* gamers... Well... the times have changed... time to sharpen my steel and march towards the glory of the sweet death in the battlefield...
The only context I could add that may make a difference (because it was interesting to me) is if the content is challenging enough, that using different classes to complete an instance creates a different set of challenges.
The primary reason I left WoW shortly after Wrath was released is because Ghostcrawler thought it would be cool to give all tanking classes the same abilities (i.e. they could all now easily AoE tank) which negated the need for cc. He also largely removed need for specific types of dps, and gave largely the same abilities to each of the healing classes. The result was exactly the boredom you mention at the start of this thread. It simply no longer mattered which tank you brought, whether you had cc (much less what type of cc), or which type of healer you brought along.
Contrast this with WoW Vanilla or WoW BC which required that you had to build in specific combinations of classes for a given run. Some people took it too far with refusing to run an instance unless a specific group composition was present, but I personally found it to be a fun challenge to run instances with a wide variety of tank, dps, cc, and healing classes. If you had the "incorrect" group composition, you were actually presented with a challenge...not of content, but of getting a non-optimal group to successful take down the mobs and bosses.
Finally, in line with your question, considering that Blizzard has maintained a steady subscription rate even with Wrath, I think the answer in general is that people just don't mind. I think many enjoy the ability to face-roll the repeatable instances and their bosses to make themselves feel like they are 133t players (another particularly annoying aspect of WoW Wrath).
TBH I like MMOs were you can craft the gear you need instead of the treadmill, millions of players may put up with the raid grind but I don't and won't , real raiding anyways consists of FFA PVP like in Darkfall or EVE. Player economies are where their at.
The developers can't put up content fast enough. So they have to make it up through "grind".
Some of the best single playing games now only offer like 40-200 playing hours. Which is alot less than the standard MMO.
The carrot on the stick theme, so yes.
Actually ghouls and goblins made you do the exact same thing only harder the second time around. Same levels, same monsters, same design just made them hit harder and made you less defensive. also i think some of the super marios did this as well. So while i agree this is a poor design to get you to stay in the game longer, it has been done before MMOs. Just not to the extent or repetiveness that has occured in current MMOs
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
im not familiar with the game but it IS a fact that Diablo games were exactly the same.. more like MU online as well.. you finished the game and then restarted... but to be honest, i never restarted either of them to reach the maximum level...
Although Asheron's Call had repeatable quests from the start, they were never necessary to repeat as the best loot came from creature corpses not quests.
WoW came along and decided its game model would be to rush the player to end game and then have them repeat the same raid 20 times to get that one piece of random drop loot they need. Millions of people joined WoW. So naturally other companies figured that is what players want and started designing that way as well.
It isn't players putting up with it, it is players causing it. Obviously players like that terrible game design since they keep putting their money into it. If all players wanted quality and variety instead of repeat repeat repeat then they would stick there money into the great games that allow for that.
Well, Developers cannot create content, especially quality content, faster than players can consume it. That means there needs to be an element keeping people in the previous content, that is where the gear and rng comes in. It seems to me,either that or more people quit between content patches and expansions than already do, which isnt a great model for a sub based game.
Maybe we need 999 level towers or dungeons with every 10 levels holding a gatekeeper that requires raid to kill. Kill gatekeeper access next 10 levels as a 6-man, everybody raids up to kill next gatekeeper, etc.
Game could launch with say 300 levels, next 300 released at expansion and so on. Starts at mid level and becomes part of end game, last 99 floors are like the pits of hell with absolutely insane encounters.
It's progression right? Non repeatable... Not saying that is only content but a type of content included with other MMORPG staples.
My comment is somewhat tongue-in-cheek but always kind of liked the 100 floor towers in... think it was Lufia? Other games too.
You are wrong. You run the same content again no hard mode on Diablo, Champions of Norrath and very many action RPGs. You keep on upgrading your char while you ran through the same quest and stages.
MMORPGs are modeled after these games with a BIGGER multiplayer component.
This right here, they're filling a consumer demand.
MMO's have always been about positive reinforcement and time commitment, you fill the bubble you gain levels you get skills. You kill the big ugly you get loot to help you kill the next big ugly.
WOW when it started out had 40 man raids but people complained that those people were elitists and that they didn't have access to the content and so it was dropped down and simplified into what you see today.
The additional content was there but people felt that they didn't have access to it and Blizzard capitulated and opened the content to everyone taking the time commitment out of the content and now you have a gear treadmill. Coincidently I feel the WOW Population today is far more elitist than it was during the original WOW content.
But than again WOW has 11 million subscribers
Because it's a time sync to get you to play longer. Among other time syncs:
A large world that takes awhile to travel,
Quests that involve collecting lots of stuff
A large levelling curve
Monsters that only spawn every 3 to 12 to 24 hours
All of which are in online and non-online RPG's.
Taru-Gallante-Blood elf-Elysean-Kelari-Crime Fighting-Imperial Agent
There isn't an alternative.
It's either repeatable or you would reach an end point and cancel your subscription.
The producers don't want you to stop playing their game.
Repitition is so ingrained into the human condition its more surprising that people would object to repeeting the things they enjoy.
How many times have you eaten the same food and still enjoyed it?
How many times have you pleasured your SO in the same way and still enjoyed it?
How many times have you gotten drunk, talked about the same old nostalgic crap, and still enjoyed it?
The simple fact is that if you enjoy it then repitition is fine.
Talking about WoW, it has so many interesting 5-man instances that 99% of players NEVER play! Like the instances in the barrens and in general low lvl instances... There could have been a way to revitalise them and actually use them again...