Oh, this is a sad thread to a FFXIV fan. It seems we've told eachother how wrong we are for hating the game when that wasn't what what was written at least 3 or 4 times. Damn hater trolls have made us jumpy.
Being passionate about something you care about can make you just as bad at trolling than someone who is passionsate about hating it.
Not saying you're trolling, just saying that not everyone who is posting criticism is a troll.
There really is a time when people need to step back, take a deep breath, exhale and say "You know what. Why am I getting so worked up over this game? I really enjoy it, and they don't. Why do I care whether or not they hate the game?"
Forcing confrontation only does 2 things.
Makes you frustrated and thus more likely to lose your cool.
Gives the other side the satisifaction of proving you wrong by calling you out. Making the mistake of accepting the bait allows them to open with new attacks: "See? This is the kind of community you can expect from X game!" "In Y Game, you don't have to deal with this community"
There comes a point when you just become too zealous.
~Miles "Tails" Prower out! Catch me if you can!
Hold up there, Tails, maybe you spent a bit too much time with your nose buried in the machinery you're tuning up, but just because a fellow wrote "damn hater trolls have made us jumpy" doesnt' mean you should give them a lecture on how not everybody who is critical is a hater troll. On the contrary, the comment could have pointed out to all the people who actually were hater trolls, dropping little bombs on us just to get our goat, of which was was no lack of them, having made us jumpy. You need to clear the corn out of those fox ears - if Dr. Eggman were playing a mind game on you, he'd totally trick you right now, and then Sonic would have to spend the whole game rescuing you, and there's another game in which you're not a playable character.
You hold up there, Geldon. Maybe you've spent too much time getting excited and hyped up for this game. You don't even realize that you're trying to push the responsibility for your own actions to someone else entirely. What you just said is akin to claiming that you're not responsible for knocking a guy out who walks up to you and says "kiss my ass!".
Trolls are trolls. They're going to be there, like it or not. You can't control that. What you cancontrol is your reaction to them. That is your responsibility, and not theirs. You and others like you have indeed gotten over zealous, almost as if you're on some crusade. You really do need to "step back, take a deep breath", and chill out. If someone raises a legitimate concern, how about you address it like a normal human being rather than lambast them with insults and claims that they're too stupid to "get" FFXIV? Point them to another post where you've already explained it. If they can't accept that, they may well be trolling. Then again, you might have a decent discussion once in a while. It's odd enough this 180 you've done anyway, seeing as a week ago you made your own topic on how this game may well please noone with its identity crisis. It definitely seems like - going from then to know - that you've lost your grip, and gone blind fanboi on the whole thing. You really should tone it down...
Don't get me wrong either. I get where you're coming from what with your "26+ years" of gaming experience, but I've gone through your post history. I see your posting patterns are quite a lot like what you've done with FFXIV. I saw you were a supporter of Tabula Rasa, as well as some other smaller niche games. 70 MMORPG's under your belt or not, you're not much different than anyone else in that you find the ones you like, and stick on them like glue. More power to you for that! But, I think you've gotten to where you are because of supporting failing games in the past. I don't think I'd be assuming too much to think you're being a bit paranoid about the potential of a game that you've decided to dive into, particularly when - as I said - just a week ago your attitude was one of more mixed feelings.
End of the day, you guys need to relax about it and not let your own excitement and hype for the game overwhelm you to the point you have. If it's too much to handle without responding poorly, then don't bother at all! It's not that hard, really...
I don't know how this guy's head works exactly, but it sure makes for interesting reading. Here I am pointing out that there is, such a thing as a troll, and in reply I get:
My experience is moot because I supported Tabula Rasa, as though that has anything to do with the way I'm supporting Final Fantasy XIV
How I'm apparently nonobjective, and he supports this idea with a link to a thread where I am being objective
How I should probably relax and not get my panties in the bunch when his very reply is surely an example of doing so.
Basically, he's telling me that he cadn plot people like simple patterns and know if they're right or wrong. Which leaves me left in the lurch feeling like it doesn't particularly matter what I say to this guy, he's going to make a massive jump to whatever conclusion he wants out of it.
I'd go through your posting history to find similar sleights, but hell, I don't even like what I'm seeing in the present, let alone the distant past.
Take it how you want but...
I never claimed your experience moot. I stated that in your experience of past games and supporting smaller ones, you've likely grown a bit anxious about the potential failure of current games you support that are less popular.
You request people look at your profile which I did recently after seeing you in almost every last thread I've read recently regarding FFXIV (which I'm following still in hopes of improvement) to understand better where you're coming from with the attitude you've had. By attitude, I mean that in the past week I've seen you (and others) get into pissing contests over asinine things, mostly revolving around your defense of FFXIV's weak points. Weak points that you yourself objectively addressed in the post I linked to. Note that I didn't spend hours reading through your posts but merely skimmed through and took notice of dates and numbers of posts on a particular game more than anything. It took all of perhaps 5 minutes given that the first 20~ pages were all FFXIV posts.
I say you've lost your objectivity because you've gone from being able to admit FFXIV's shortcomings and discussing them to downright berating those who offer an opposing position.
I didn't attack you with my post, but merely pointed out what seems to me to be the obvious, given what very little I know of you but have seen in how you respond to people here. You've dropped into defense so quickly that you're completely closed off from taking a look at yourself, and instead try to shift the focus to me by claiming that I've somehow gotten my "panties in a bunch".
On top of it all, you try to bullet-point your response to me and rather than addressing anything refer to me as "he" and "this guy" as if talking to everyone else in the forum except for the person who addressed you, as if making a case to a jury where you're on trial when I never persecuted you to begin with.
Understand, I intended primarily to make a point about you, and others like you who have indeed lost the will to actually deal with folks on the subject of anything offering criticism of FFXIV. I did so in a way that I had assumed would be fitting to your way of dealing with folks, but I suppose that - taken out of context - you can twist anything into what you'd rather perceive for your own convenience. I mean, you took jabs at Miles' post with your initial response, and I merely followed that format to make an example. What's ironic is that your response is precisely why it's called trolling. You made an inflammatory remark and I figure expected a reaction. When treated in kind, you yourself responded poorly.
Am I missing something here? I mean, I guess I'm in the wrong for stating my opinion on a forum and expecting it to be understood?
Quick edit to note; I apologizing for venturing far off-topic, but I'd be more than happy to talk in PM's if you're willing. I mostly wanted to state my case at this point as well, given that you felt obligated to undermine me somehow by trying to pick my earlier reply apart.
I reconsidered while you were writing that and revised much of what I wrote, so I won't hold much of this latest reply as relevant anymore.
However, I will say this much for it: you really can't lecture me about undermining a fellow considering you worked so hard to do the same. Maybe you weren't intending to undermine me, but that's how it turned out. You don't turn the subject on somebody for as long as you did unless that was you're doing, deliberately or otherwise.
In fact, don't lecture a person about their conduct at all. I tell you, the chance anyone's going to reform their habits based off of something you told them on the Internet is pretty damn sketchy, what with Interent anonymomy and all. They will run you in circles forever, because it's just easier on their fragile ego than admitting you're right.
Actually FF XIV is extreme easy mode, so you might as well drop the elitism. Its bascially see a mob and kill it. That is zero depth. It even shows you were things are going to spawn, which are also just for you and you alone. There is absolutly nothing hard or difficult about FF XIV.
"see a mob and kill it"
Considering that 98% of the mobs in the game will annihilate you with that simple tactic, you're going to need a hell of a lot of strategy to get anywhere in this game. The enemies in last generation MMOs often follow a simple pattern of "get to this level, get this tier equipment, and use EXACTLY THESE ABILITIES in EXACTLY THIS ORDER" in order to guarantee victory in combat. The massive popularity of old-school walkthrough sites like Tankspot are evidence of this fact. On the other hand, the entire battle dynamics of FFXIV can change based on a single spell miss, a single piece of broken equipment, or accidentally aggroing an unexpected mob. Players may suddenly find themselves on the verge of death with no means to have prevented it, and they need to have the skills and abilities to react in time. Crafting can be equally challenging, as players must be willing to risk potentially losing an enormous amount of gil creating higher quality materials, and they must be willing to change their synthesis strategy based on a surprise elemental instability or repeated failure rates.
Simply put, FFXIV is challenging as hell and your arguments show you probably haven't played the game too seriously.
Actually most mobs in the game will annihalate simply because they are higher level. Sounds like you need to get a wider understanding of MMOs, especially one's that aren't simply tank and spank.
Except that most people will be fighting higher level mobs through groups meaning that they actually do have to take into account individual mob strategies.
Only those fighting low blues can ignore mob specials etc., especially once you get much past rank 20.
I also stand by my previous statement, it does service to the community I want to be a part of. I don't care about elitism/exclusivity but I do care about not changing a game/community to cater to those types while at the same time making it less appealing to myself and others. They have plenty of games to flock to specifically designed with them in mind, all we have are 8 year old+ ones with declining populations, outdated graphics, and severe limitations on their designs.
No they don't. Someone has to tank, while the rest dps it down. Its not complex, its tank and spanking.
You can kill higher level mobs in any MMO, if grouped. There are also pleny of modern grinders around, so not sure where you are getting only old MMOs being out there. FF XIV is not an old style sandbox MMO, its a stripped down themepark one (i.e. a central themed story arc, with grinding to fill the gaps).
Well you are wrong but go ahead and keep thinking you know anything about the game.
Since XP in all levels (through guildleves and even many times when just group grinding) is on groups of mobs and not just one, you don't have one person tanking the rest dps'ing it down.
Mob abilities in FFXIV can be avoided by moving to the side or behind, tails on certain mobs can be destroyed to prevent special attacks, as can other limbs to reduce attack/movement/etc. Battle regiments can be used to apply necessary buffs, or necessary boosts in damage to make efficient xp on harder mobs even possible.
You have never even played the game, or played it and failed to understand it's most basic elements. I'd explain to them to you but it would be a waste of my time since based on this post I wouldn't want you changing your mind about the game anyways.
Ok well after reading this whole thread, this was the one that popped out most.
First, leves are essentially mission terminals from Galaxies, to call it content is stupid(not that I saw you specificially refer to it as such)
Secondly, you mention in other post as well as this one on the difficulty as you work your way onto the hard side of the leves.
Thirdly, I can't name anygame that has only tank and spank encounters, and this seems now different, just that you can force spawn harder encounters by a difficulty slider(same thing that is in or coming in most modern MMOs as well)
Your Battle Regiments are no different than heroic opps from EQ2, and the LOTRO combat thing as well.
And the final part about avoidance, I thought Champions had crap like avoidance by moving and such, and of course any game without sticky targetting(Fallen Earth for example) So instead of having to attack the generic health pool, you have to defeat a piece of it first to make it easier if you wish, sounds no different than modern raid encounters just disguised as an old school shooter game that you destroy it piece by piece.
So really the combat has been seen in other MMOs, its just disguised differently and maybe not all put together and applied as often as FFXIV will(basically from the sounds of it, you can make every fight a raid type encounter in another game happen as often as you wish, and that personally sounds boring as crap, because everyone knows that raiding actually gets boring after the first couple times as its literally just going through the motions)
Now for you, I have yet to see any chance of enemies having multiple reactives and once you know how a mob acts, its just tank in spank with a bit of tactics involved. Now correct me if I'm wrong as I really don't see how combat is an amazing thing in this game or the whole random chance in crafting(Galaxies had that thing called experimentation, if it failed your item was crap, 14 just takes away the resource static component and adds a pure luck factor to it, or once figured out the system if applicable a streamlined way to level it.
I guess I keep seeing NEW NEW NEW NEW NEW screaming from people about this game, when really they need to sitback and see the truth of the genre, nothing new has been invented and nothing will anytime soon from any game coming out, they all just copy and paste and hopefully after experimenting with multiple factors in combat, crafting, social, etc they get a hit.
I'd make an attempt to answer this in depth right now, but I'll just point out one thing you said as my entire argument since I'm playing the beta (it is the last night) currently:
"basically from the sounds of it, you can make every fight a raid type encounter in another game happen as often as you wish, and that personally sounds boring as crap"
Yes you can. And I disagree that it is boring, to me that sounds AMAZINGLY AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!
Let me get this right. You are now trying to claim you can make every mob encounter in FF XIV equivelent to a raid encounter? Anyone who's been part of the beta knows that is absolutly nowhere near the case.
It's funny how people like to take things to the extreme. FFXIV isn't as bad as haters say and it's not as fantasic as fanbois believe. What I do know is SE's track record. FFXIV has enough right now to keep me interested and to have fun along the way. I want to grow with this game because I absolutely see the potential.
I played WoW for 4 years and FFXI for two, yet my fondest memories are from FFXI, and I consider FFXI my favorite mmo of all time. I'm not going to bash WoW, because it would be a slap in the face of a company that is leading the industry and for good reason, however, WoW's community is the cesspool of the mmo genre. For every reason I HATED WoW's elitism (gearscore, dps meters, arena rating, etc etc) I LOVED FFXI.
YES YES, i know some people on these forums are also elitist when it comes to FFXIV, but in all honesty, it's only in response to the absolute unjustified crap that is being spewed about FFXIV. FFXIV is being released in no better and no worse shape then any other mmo that was released. All mmo's have their growing pains, but do people need to attack someone else's motive or reason for liking a game. It is absolutely pathetic at the level of hate that is being thrown at SE and FFXIV, and it also doesn't help that fanbois are taking the opposite extreme.
I can absolutely understand why someone that has used to modern mmo keyboard/mouse UI hates FFXIV UI. I can also understand how it's not a big deal to people who've played FF and specifically FFXI. I can understand the value of the convenience and accessibility that WoW provides, but I also understand that it can water down the achievements in the game.
I've reached the conclusion that MMORPG.com is the best place to get into a flame war but offers no other redeaming value for an "about to be released" mmo. For fanbois, go to Eorzapedia.com, ffxivcore.com, or another website if you want to converse with people who share your excitement for the game. The haters can stay here and do whatever they like... which fascinates me why someone who doesn't intend on playing a game would waste time, effort, and energy bashing a game.
Let me get this right. You are now trying to claim you can make every mob encounter in FF XIV equivelent to a raid encounter? Anyone who's been part of the beta knows that is absolutly nowhere near the case.
Let me get this right. You are now trying to claim you can make every mob encounter in FF XIV equivelent to a raid encounter? Anyone who's been part of the beta knows that is absolutly nowhere near the case.
not atm but beta has been for TESTINg not playing
Actually you can't test without playing. Every mob is not going to be at a raid encounter level. They are going to be exactly the same as they are now (i.e. tank and spank), just like other MMOs.
The more complex ones are to be the NMs. Even then we don't have the full details on if they all will have any complexity.
Let me get this right. You are now trying to claim you can make every mob encounter in FF XIV equivelent to a raid encounter? Anyone who's been part of the beta knows that is absolutly nowhere near the case.
I'm not the one that made that comparison but anyways in a way yes.
Generally while "grind leveling" or however you put it (not content apparently anyways) combat is pretty simplistic. This might be your experience in beta, but in actually challenging content it is not the case since most tanks should be required to avoid specials.
I haven't fought any mobs that required parts to be cut off, but since this is a stated feature of the game that would be another way in which they are complex in the way that raid mobs in most mmo's tend to be.
Of course in my opinion raids in FFXIV will then be 10x more complex than most mmo's as FFXI was in my opinion, point being that combat is more complex.
You can disagree all day people have different definitions of what makes somethign difficulty, I find having to adjust strategies constantly to be my definition of a challenge. As most MMO's only require the development of an efficient rotation to play at top tier.
Were raid level or end game mobs in FFXI tank and spank? NO!
On what basis are you concluding that FFXIV will just be tank and spank.... excuse me, but arn't all starting level mobs tank and spank in every single mmo that has every been released?
I give up... i'm just going to play Starcraft 2 until FFXIV release and then forget mmorpg.com exists. That should increase my enjoyment level quite a bit.
Were raid level or end game mobs in FFXI tank and spank? NO!
On what basis are you concluding that FFXIV will just be tank and spank.... excuse me, but arn't all starting level mobs tank and spank in every single mmo that has every been released?
I give up... i'm just going to play Starcraft 2 until FFXIV release and then forget mmorpg.com exists. That should increase my enjoyment level quite a bit.
Err? I said the majority of the mobs are tank and spank, just like any other MMO. I also said the complexity would relate to the NMs. You've just repeated bascially what I said.
Its someone else trying to claim all encounters are raid level, being the issue. Although he has just admitted (in a roundabout way) he was talking bull. SE have stated FF XIV will be released without an end game, with one being added later. There is no doubt the game will improve with time. However until that occurs that game doesn't exist.
This is so silly. Were raid level or end game mobs in FFXI tank and spank? NO! On what basis are you concluding that FFXIV will just be tank and spank.... excuse me, but arn't all starting level mobs tank and spank in every single mmo that has every been released? I give up... i'm just going to play Starcraft 2 until FFXIV release and then forget mmorpg.com exists. That should increase my enjoyment level quite a bit.
Err? I said the majority of the mobs are tank and spank, just like any other MMO. I also said the complexity would relate to the NMs. You've just repeated bascially what I said. Its someone else trying to claim all encounters are raid level, being the issue. Although he has just admitted (in a roundabout way) he was talking bull. SE have stated FF XIV will be released without an end game, with one being added later. There is no doubt the game will improve with time. However until that occurs that game doesn't exist.
Have you paid any attention at all to the clear indications that the game will be receiving a heck of a lot more content once the final version is actually released? We haven't encountered any boss monsters yet. When this happens we are going to see battles that require a lot more complexity and planning to defeat. The vast majority of testers in the betas have accepted that Square is withholding much of the game's best content. Why this manages to upset you is clearly beyond me.
On a side note, what popular fantasy MMOs where simple non-boss mobs require more strategy to defeat than the proper combination of tanks and healers? Certainly not WoW, for starters...
Meh, FFXIV looks really, really boring. Say what you want about other areas of the game, a lot of your time in an MMO is going to be spent in combat. If combat isn't very interesting, it's not going to be very fun, and the combat in FFXIV looks downright dull, IMO.
QFT
on another note the OP is an elitist troll, I really don't understand what he considers so "hard" about final fantasy 14. As far as i'm concerned getting Gladiator title in WoW is probably the "hardest" thing i've tried to do in any MMO. Not that I play WoW anymore, I just love how repetitive some peoples ideas that WoW is easy mode and everyone that doesn't like a game should go back to WoW.
FF14 is sort of a blast from the past, its a mmo like what mmorpg's were before the mmorpg market killer(To many games are easy mode now because of WoW, wasn't the case before its release) world of warcraft was out. Most of the people bashing it are probally mmorpg players who were spoon fed by WoW and its cloned ilk and don't have any real clue what-so-ever of what a REAL mmorpg was about. Its one of the reasons I like it, it'll keep the "I want easymode" players out since its not easy enough for them to grasp. I played wow back at release and after a month or 2 I quit and never went back, I just found the game lacking in so many aspects compared to mmorpg's I was used to.
Anyway, FF14 is meant to not hold your hand, its meant for you to go out and try things on your own, just like FF11 was. If you can't handle this, may as well go back to wow, or whatever easy mode mmo you came from. Unlike Everquest 2, SE won't change FF14 to cater to wow players (in terms of where stuff is etc, and ease of finding things). Either suck it up and get used to using a wiki, or just leave, less lag and less whining for the rest of us who enjoy the game to deal with on forums.
If you can handle it well welcome
Do you even have a clue? I've been playing MMO since Meridian 59 and FF14 is not a blast of a past. It's just standard Asian Crap that been comming out last 10years. Zero Content, all Grind, Diablo Clone.
EQ1 had More content in the newbie zone then this game has and probably ever will. It's a GRIND FEST and that's all it is. It's probably in my minda the worst game that come out in last 20y, and i've played everything. Shadowbane didn't ahve a lot of content but at least it had 100X more then this game does. Oh and was also 100x more fun.
Do you even have a clue? I've been playing MMO since Meridian 59 and FF14 is not a blast of a past. It's just standard Asian Crap that been comming out last 10years. Zero Content, all Grind, Diablo Clone.
EQ1 had More content in the newbie zone then this game has and probably ever will. It's a GRIND FEST and that's all it is. It's probably in my minda the worst game that come out in last 20y, and i've played everything. Shadowbane didn't ahve a lot of content but at least it had 100X more then this game does. Oh and was also 100x more fun.
Sums it up nicely. Just another asian grinder.
Well, one thing is actually wrong, the open beta client is less than half the size of the regular client so complaining about content is a bit premature at least until the game actually releases.
Meh, FFXIV looks really, really boring. Say what you want about other areas of the game, a lot of your time in an MMO is going to be spent in combat. If combat isn't very interesting, it's not going to be very fun, and the combat in FFXIV looks downright dull, IMO.
QFT
on another note the OP is an elitist troll, I really don't understand what he considers so "hard" about final fantasy 14. As far as i'm concerned getting Gladiator title in WoW is probably the "hardest" thing i've tried to do in any MMO. Not that I play WoW anymore, I just love how repetitive some peoples ideas that WoW is easy mode and everyone that doesn't like a game should go back to WoW.
How can you be an elitist troll if you aren't insulting the people that the forum is made for? I'd understand if he was an elitist troll if he was posting this in the WoW/Tera/GW2/etc forums or something. . .
Yeah... I really don't get this.
You wanted my time, so I played you. You wanted my money, I forked it over. You wanted my soul, I gave it willingly. Not to complain... but when do I get my end of the deal? And no, I don't want your flippin' carrot. If you can't do that give me back my youth and keep the change. Why don't you try chasing your own damn carrot for a change? I'll gladly hold the stick.
FF14 is sort of a blast from the past, its a mmo like what mmorpg's were before the mmorpg market killer(To many games are easy mode now because of WoW, wasn't the case before its release) world of warcraft was out. Most of the people bashing it are probally mmorpg players who were spoon fed by WoW and its cloned ilk and don't have any real clue what-so-ever of what a REAL mmorpg was about. Its one of the reasons I like it, it'll keep the "I want easymode" players out since its not easy enough for them to grasp. I played wow back at release and after a month or 2 I quit and never went back, I just found the game lacking in so many aspects compared to mmorpg's I was used to.
Anyway, FF14 is meant to not hold your hand, its meant for you to go out and try things on your own, just like FF11 was. If you can't handle this, may as well go back to wow, or whatever easy mode mmo you came from. Unlike Everquest 2, SE won't change FF14 to cater to wow players (in terms of where stuff is etc, and ease of finding things). Either suck it up and get used to using a wiki, or just leave, less lag and less whining for the rest of us who enjoy the game to deal with on forums.
If you can handle it well welcome
Do you even have a clue? I've been playing MMO since Meridian 59 and FF14 is not a blast of a past. It's just standard Asian Crap that been comming out last 10years. Zero Content, all Grind, Diablo Clone.
EQ1 had More content in the newbie zone then this game has and probably ever will. It's a GRIND FEST and that's all it is. It's probably in my minda the worst game that come out in last 20y, and i've played everything. Shadowbane didn't ahve a lot of content but at least it had 100X more then this game does. Oh and was also 100x more fun.
Sums it up nicely. Just another asian grinder.
Blows my mind why people actually expected somethin diferent to ffxi,at least on what core elements are.
On a side note ffxi was one of the best pve mmos ever for many people.
Do people even bother to do a bit of research before crying on forums anymore ?
Blows my mind why people actually expected somethin diferent to ffxi,at least on what core elements are.
On a side note ffxi was one of the best pve mmos ever for many people.
Do people even bother to do a bit of research before crying on forums anymore ?
Never gonna happen. These people hate reading, remember?
You wanted my time, so I played you. You wanted my money, I forked it over. You wanted my soul, I gave it willingly. Not to complain... but when do I get my end of the deal? And no, I don't want your flippin' carrot. If you can't do that give me back my youth and keep the change. Why don't you try chasing your own damn carrot for a change? I'll gladly hold the stick.
Blows my mind why people actually expected somethin diferent to ffxi,at least on what core elements are.
On a side note ffxi was one of the best pve mmos ever for many people.
Do people even bother to do a bit of research before crying on forums anymore ?
Never gonna happen. These people hate reading, remember?
So....how many of the people talking bad about FFXIV in this thread are actually planning on playing it once it is released??
Just curious, since yoru all so worked up about it and all. Playing yes?? Preorder yes?? Please dont tell me your not going to be playing. I mean what would be the point of all this then?
(DISCLAIMER - The use of the word YOU in the above post is not directed at any one person in particular, but towards those who fall into the category itself - there is no personal attack here, neither intentional nor implied.)
FF14 is sort of a blast from the past, its a mmo like what mmorpg's were before the mmorpg market killer(To many games are easy mode now because of WoW, wasn't the case before its release) world of warcraft was out. Most of the people bashing it are probally mmorpg players who were spoon fed by WoW and its cloned ilk and don't have any real clue what-so-ever of what a REAL mmorpg was about. Its one of the reasons I like it, it'll keep the "I want easymode" players out since its not easy enough for them to grasp. I played wow back at release and after a month or 2 I quit and never went back, I just found the game lacking in so many aspects compared to mmorpg's I was used to.
I don't understand how this game is a blast from the past... As a veteran player (going back to EQ, DAOC, and even MUDs) I was there for the past, and this is nothing like it.
Wait, to be fair, there is one similarity... I went back to DAOC recently, and I had a really hard time because I just did not remember the interface being as clunky and unintuitive as it was... Obviously it was my memory that was faulty. So there, you have the similarity between FF14 and the older games... Clunky, unintuitive interface! Somehow, I would think in this day and age we would have outgrown that.
Yes, it's just another asian grinder, in much the same way World of Warcraft is just another western casual-friendly MMORPG.
Do tell, what does "casual-friendly grinder" mean? Seems like oxymoron to me...
If you honestly think that you've spent (at most) about 7 years subscribed to World of Warcraft, depleting the hitpoint bars of stuff of varying shapes and sizes, painstakingly earning that gold for epic mount after epic mount after epic mount, and you're not playing a grind, I think I've got a bridge I can sell you.
All MMORPGs, with extremely unusual exceptions are a grind. What makes it "casual-friendly" is really more a matter of pacing, trying to accomidate people who don't have all that many hours per day to play.
Actually, I hesistate to say World of Wacraft is truly casual friendly. From what I understand, the end game pulls a bit of a bait-and-switch. It's mostly the levels on the way to the end game that are casual friendly.
Oh no! FFXIV UI is almost the same as FFXI UI! OMG why didnt they tell us ?OMG NO is a GRIND just like its predecesor!, SE Lied to me with ADS on my cartoon network chanel and with the big stands at my blockbuster store! Im cancelling my preorder, o wait i already been charged, o well i guess im forced to play it now no matter what you all might say.
Being boring in general, lacking an inuitive UI and a general sense of direction doesn't make this game good, nor does it make it hard. Having a learning curve or offering little to no camoflauge for the grinding that every MMORPG has doesn't either.
The basic flaw in the trolling is that the argument is based around the idea that MMORPG's shouldn't be judged like every other genre of videogames are. That's why a lot of games are FINALLY starting to break away from the idealogy behind most of the other MMORPGs and are starting to focus more on stories and inovation (albeit, not much inovation) as well as graphics despite the fact that having a high hardware requirement is a detriment to your top-end sales figures. I will say that Final Fantasy has great graphics.
I refuse to say that it's a good game simply because a 12 year old is goign to have to ask 32,000 questions in the help channel in order to figure out what the hell he's supposed to be doing for the first 3 hours of gameplay.
FF14 is sort of a blast from the past, its a mmo like what mmorpg's were before the mmorpg market killer(To many games are easy mode now because of WoW, wasn't the case before its release) world of warcraft was out. Most of the people bashing it are probally mmorpg players who were spoon fed by WoW and its cloned ilk and don't have any real clue what-so-ever of what a REAL mmorpg was about. Its one of the reasons I like it, it'll keep the "I want easymode" players out since its not easy enough for them to grasp. I played wow back at release and after a month or 2 I quit and never went back, I just found the game lacking in so many aspects compared to mmorpg's I was used to.
Anyway, FF14 is meant to not hold your hand, its meant for you to go out and try things on your own, just like FF11 was. If you can't handle this, may as well go back to wow, or whatever easy mode mmo you came from. Unlike Everquest 2, SE won't change FF14 to cater to wow players (in terms of where stuff is etc, and ease of finding things). Either suck it up and get used to using a wiki, or just leave, less lag and less whining for the rest of us who enjoy the game to deal with on forums.
If you can handle it well welcome
i hate to break it to you but WoW players aren't even interested in ff14. so theres no "go back to WoW" cause they ain't leavin' especially for this pos game.
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I reconsidered while you were writing that and revised much of what I wrote, so I won't hold much of this latest reply as relevant anymore.
However, I will say this much for it: you really can't lecture me about undermining a fellow considering you worked so hard to do the same. Maybe you weren't intending to undermine me, but that's how it turned out. You don't turn the subject on somebody for as long as you did unless that was you're doing, deliberately or otherwise.
In fact, don't lecture a person about their conduct at all. I tell you, the chance anyone's going to reform their habits based off of something you told them on the Internet is pretty damn sketchy, what with Interent anonymomy and all. They will run you in circles forever, because it's just easier on their fragile ego than admitting you're right.
I'd make an attempt to answer this in depth right now, but I'll just point out one thing you said as my entire argument since I'm playing the beta (it is the last night) currently:
"basically from the sounds of it, you can make every fight a raid type encounter in another game happen as often as you wish, and that personally sounds boring as crap"
Yes you can. And I disagree that it is boring, to me that sounds AMAZINGLY AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!
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Let me get this right. You are now trying to claim you can make every mob encounter in FF XIV equivelent to a raid encounter? Anyone who's been part of the beta knows that is absolutly nowhere near the case.
Let's just agree to disagree.
It's funny how people like to take things to the extreme. FFXIV isn't as bad as haters say and it's not as fantasic as fanbois believe. What I do know is SE's track record. FFXIV has enough right now to keep me interested and to have fun along the way. I want to grow with this game because I absolutely see the potential.
I played WoW for 4 years and FFXI for two, yet my fondest memories are from FFXI, and I consider FFXI my favorite mmo of all time. I'm not going to bash WoW, because it would be a slap in the face of a company that is leading the industry and for good reason, however, WoW's community is the cesspool of the mmo genre. For every reason I HATED WoW's elitism (gearscore, dps meters, arena rating, etc etc) I LOVED FFXI.
YES YES, i know some people on these forums are also elitist when it comes to FFXIV, but in all honesty, it's only in response to the absolute unjustified crap that is being spewed about FFXIV. FFXIV is being released in no better and no worse shape then any other mmo that was released. All mmo's have their growing pains, but do people need to attack someone else's motive or reason for liking a game. It is absolutely pathetic at the level of hate that is being thrown at SE and FFXIV, and it also doesn't help that fanbois are taking the opposite extreme.
I can absolutely understand why someone that has used to modern mmo keyboard/mouse UI hates FFXIV UI. I can also understand how it's not a big deal to people who've played FF and specifically FFXI. I can understand the value of the convenience and accessibility that WoW provides, but I also understand that it can water down the achievements in the game.
I've reached the conclusion that MMORPG.com is the best place to get into a flame war but offers no other redeaming value for an "about to be released" mmo. For fanbois, go to Eorzapedia.com, ffxivcore.com, or another website if you want to converse with people who share your excitement for the game. The haters can stay here and do whatever they like... which fascinates me why someone who doesn't intend on playing a game would waste time, effort, and energy bashing a game.
What a complete and utter waste of human energy.
not atm but beta has been for TESTINg not playing
Actually you can't test without playing. Every mob is not going to be at a raid encounter level. They are going to be exactly the same as they are now (i.e. tank and spank), just like other MMOs.
The more complex ones are to be the NMs. Even then we don't have the full details on if they all will have any complexity.
I'm not the one that made that comparison but anyways in a way yes.
Generally while "grind leveling" or however you put it (not content apparently anyways) combat is pretty simplistic. This might be your experience in beta, but in actually challenging content it is not the case since most tanks should be required to avoid specials.
I haven't fought any mobs that required parts to be cut off, but since this is a stated feature of the game that would be another way in which they are complex in the way that raid mobs in most mmo's tend to be.
Of course in my opinion raids in FFXIV will then be 10x more complex than most mmo's as FFXI was in my opinion, point being that combat is more complex.
You can disagree all day people have different definitions of what makes somethign difficulty, I find having to adjust strategies constantly to be my definition of a challenge. As most MMO's only require the development of an efficient rotation to play at top tier.
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This is so silly.
Were raid level or end game mobs in FFXI tank and spank? NO!
On what basis are you concluding that FFXIV will just be tank and spank.... excuse me, but arn't all starting level mobs tank and spank in every single mmo that has every been released?
I give up... i'm just going to play Starcraft 2 until FFXIV release and then forget mmorpg.com exists. That should increase my enjoyment level quite a bit.
Err? I said the majority of the mobs are tank and spank, just like any other MMO. I also said the complexity would relate to the NMs. You've just repeated bascially what I said.
Its someone else trying to claim all encounters are raid level, being the issue. Although he has just admitted (in a roundabout way) he was talking bull. SE have stated FF XIV will be released without an end game, with one being added later. There is no doubt the game will improve with time. However until that occurs that game doesn't exist.
On a side note, what popular fantasy MMOs where simple non-boss mobs require more strategy to defeat than the proper combination of tanks and healers? Certainly not WoW, for starters...
Summary of the topic:
Sage Sundi doesn't care about Forum People!
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QFT
on another note the OP is an elitist troll, I really don't understand what he considers so "hard" about final fantasy 14. As far as i'm concerned getting Gladiator title in WoW is probably the "hardest" thing i've tried to do in any MMO. Not that I play WoW anymore, I just love how repetitive some peoples ideas that WoW is easy mode and everyone that doesn't like a game should go back to WoW.
Sums it up nicely. Just another asian grinder.
Well, one thing is actually wrong, the open beta client is less than half the size of the regular client so complaining about content is a bit premature at least until the game actually releases.
How can you be an elitist troll if you aren't insulting the people that the forum is made for? I'd understand if he was an elitist troll if he was posting this in the WoW/Tera/GW2/etc forums or something. . .
Yeah... I really don't get this.
You wanted my time, so I played you. You wanted my money, I forked it over. You wanted my soul, I gave it willingly. Not to complain... but when do I get my end of the deal? And no, I don't want your flippin' carrot. If you can't do that give me back my youth and keep the change. Why don't you try chasing your own damn carrot for a change? I'll gladly hold the stick.
Sure, it's just another asian grinder, in much the same way World of Warcraft is just a western casual-grinder.
I'll throw away quibbling little details like "lots of casual gamer accomodation" if you discard "ridiculously popular."
Blows my mind why people actually expected somethin diferent to ffxi,at least on what core elements are.
On a side note ffxi was one of the best pve mmos ever for many people.
Do people even bother to do a bit of research before crying on forums anymore ?
Do tell, what does "casual-friendly grinder" mean? Seems like oxymoron to me...
Never gonna happen. These people hate reading, remember?
You wanted my time, so I played you. You wanted my money, I forked it over. You wanted my soul, I gave it willingly. Not to complain... but when do I get my end of the deal? And no, I don't want your flippin' carrot. If you can't do that give me back my youth and keep the change. Why don't you try chasing your own damn carrot for a change? I'll gladly hold the stick.
So....how many of the people talking bad about FFXIV in this thread are actually planning on playing it once it is released??
Just curious, since yoru all so worked up about it and all. Playing yes?? Preorder yes?? Please dont tell me your not going to be playing. I mean what would be the point of all this then?
(DISCLAIMER - The use of the word YOU in the above post is not directed at any one person in particular, but towards those who fall into the category itself - there is no personal attack here, neither intentional nor implied.)
I don't understand how this game is a blast from the past... As a veteran player (going back to EQ, DAOC, and even MUDs) I was there for the past, and this is nothing like it.
Wait, to be fair, there is one similarity... I went back to DAOC recently, and I had a really hard time because I just did not remember the interface being as clunky and unintuitive as it was... Obviously it was my memory that was faulty. So there, you have the similarity between FF14 and the older games... Clunky, unintuitive interface! Somehow, I would think in this day and age we would have outgrown that.
If you honestly think that you've spent (at most) about 7 years subscribed to World of Warcraft, depleting the hitpoint bars of stuff of varying shapes and sizes, painstakingly earning that gold for epic mount after epic mount after epic mount, and you're not playing a grind, I think I've got a bridge I can sell you.
All MMORPGs, with extremely unusual exceptions are a grind. What makes it "casual-friendly" is really more a matter of pacing, trying to accomidate people who don't have all that many hours per day to play.
Actually, I hesistate to say World of Wacraft is truly casual friendly. From what I understand, the end game pulls a bit of a bait-and-switch. It's mostly the levels on the way to the end game that are casual friendly.
Oh no! FFXIV UI is almost the same as FFXI UI! OMG why didnt they tell us ?OMG NO is a GRIND just like its predecesor!, SE Lied to me with ADS on my cartoon network chanel and with the big stands at my blockbuster store! Im cancelling my preorder, o wait i already been charged, o well i guess im forced to play it now no matter what you all might say.
Tough deal.
Being boring in general, lacking an inuitive UI and a general sense of direction doesn't make this game good, nor does it make it hard. Having a learning curve or offering little to no camoflauge for the grinding that every MMORPG has doesn't either.
The basic flaw in the trolling is that the argument is based around the idea that MMORPG's shouldn't be judged like every other genre of videogames are. That's why a lot of games are FINALLY starting to break away from the idealogy behind most of the other MMORPGs and are starting to focus more on stories and inovation (albeit, not much inovation) as well as graphics despite the fact that having a high hardware requirement is a detriment to your top-end sales figures. I will say that Final Fantasy has great graphics.
I refuse to say that it's a good game simply because a 12 year old is goign to have to ask 32,000 questions in the help channel in order to figure out what the hell he's supposed to be doing for the first 3 hours of gameplay.
i hate to break it to you but WoW players aren't even interested in ff14. so theres no "go back to WoW" cause they ain't leavin' especially for this pos game.