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Is the negativity on this site a good sign for The Old Republic?
Belgaraath
Member UncommonPosts: 3,204
I am very much looking forward to this game and continue to be cautiously optimistic. Each build they release shows improvement in the areas I was concerned about and they still have a lot of time. My first MMO was WOW followed by EQ2, Vanguard, Warhammer, LOTRO, Age of Conan, Aion, and Allods. I also just started beta testing Gods and Heroes (pretty world in my first 5 minutes :-). I never played SWG and quite frankly since I never heard of it until the trolling on these forums, I'm assuming it wasn't that successful in comparision to WOW and other smaller sub games such as LOTRO or EQ2 (I could be wrong).
Anyway, it seems to me that in my relatively short online gaming experience compared to some of you (I started in 2004 or so), that several games with very high hype and hope similar to what Guild Wars 2 has now barely lived up to their potential or expectations once the real reviews rolled in and the 3-4 month time frame had passed. I would say this about Vanguard, Aion, AOC (which has improved), and Warhammer (which I loved the first 2-3 months).
The Old Republic at least on these forums has more trolling then I can remember then the games I listed above so far before release (again, I could be wrong....Im just basing it on my general memory and feeling when I would pop in and out of the forums). It appears that Bioware has released very little information in comparision to their 150M budget. Keeping the hype lower and all of this trolling may actually help the game when they finally release a build that everyone can really dive into a really feel the world around them. I say keep trolling (including the site writers) because I think in the long run people here may be pleasantly surprised since the expectations and hype continue to be reset by the trolling itself. I actually think GW2 may suffer a similar fate because of the hype, though I'm hoping I'm wrong because I want to play that game in between this game when I just want to play something else that doesn't require a huge investment of time.
There Is Always Hope!
Comments
I wouldn't say it is a good sign.
But I certainly wouldn't say it is a bad sign either.
Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!
No, it's not a good sign.
SWG vets are a big source of the negativity for this game... which, for me, says good things about the game. If SWG Vets had good things to say, that would point to the likelyhood of this game really sucking.
Every MMO in development is trolled on these forums. That's just the way it is on MMOPRPG.com. The only difference here is that there are so many butt-hurt players from pre-NGE SWG who want this game to be like that one. As a result, you have more people here complaining about things not being sandbox enough than you might find in other game forums...
It's really dumb becuase this is a completely different game with completely different mechanics by a completely different company. Why anyone would expect for it to be like SWG is beyond me.
Any press is good press.
Edit: im a butt-hurt player from SWG Pre-Bastardization but I want this game to be nothing like SWG. I would be just as excited for this as if it were Dragon Age Online, I just like Biowares approach to design. That being said im not to keen on their jumping on the 'buy this DLC post game' logic.
2 cents
Finding something positive on this site is nearly impossible as is.. so I would say wait till you get in the closed/open beta and don't listen to the "sky is falling" threads.
99% of the people grouching on here haven't played it yet and just like to complain for the sake of complaining.
Letting someone else form your opinion is always silly in the first place. But so many people let that happen. They read what someone has said (even if it's wrong), and base their entire feelings on a game from that, without even bothering to learn more or try the game.
Sooo, do you want me to play this one... or.......
It's all about managing expectations.
Some people really suck at it, hence the often out-of-proportion disappointments you encounter shown by some people. Besides that, as you see on sites like this one, compared to the early years of MMO's when everyone was relatively new to the genre, people have become jaded with MMO's, far harder to be pleased or entertained by MMO games than they used to be: you got to realise, the number of hours played in MMO games is for most of the MMO gamers a factor of 10-100 of the hours played in singleplayer games, so the trend of oversaturation will be far quicker noticeable than with singleplayer games.
For the rest, there's also a phenomenon that you see here more than on other SW:TOR sites and that other MMO games have no hinder of: there's a number of people who played and adored SWG, who thoroughly disliked the changes that the NGE update brought to SWG, and in whose eyes no favor at all can be found in the direction that Bioware has chosen for SW:TOR. No matter what else Bioware might bring to the table, in the eyes of these people SW:TOR will always be inferior if for its features it moves in a direction away from the features and gameplay that SWG had.
As in life, people see far more often a cup half empty than a cup half full. I wouldn't think too much of it right now, it's better to see how things will turn out to be in the months closer to open beta and launch, when actual gameplay can be experienced and more details about the yet undisclosed features are revealed.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I would say this game is suffering from the same thing Star Trek online did, a fan base that basically can't be pleased and will take it personally that the game messed up their favorite passion. Add to it the fans that liked SWG and are jaded by what happened there and you have a highly upset core no matter what direction the game heads to. As for the fact there is negativity towards the game here i wouldn't worry at all about that fact. There isn't a game posted here that doesn't get vocal negativity, plus with each poster having a different idea on what makes a game fun, justs adds to the negativity.
A good sign. Shows a passionate, enthused and engaged fan-base.
I also hate that word "negativity"...far too often people use that word to describe any opinion they disagree with.
Even positive views are presented in the most negative ways on these forums so it's not a good or bad sign it's jsut business as usual here.
Obviously not, this is just a small portion of gamers that play MMO's. So what kind of hype or hate a game gets is meaningless in the grand scope of things. This site is a very good place to go to get good info that you can read for yourself. The posts are from gamers on the interwebs. All just opinions which are entertaining and full of useful and crap info.
The best way to fns out if a game is for you is to try it out yourself. Don't let others tell you what you like or don't like. But this site is filled with gamers that seem to like sandbox open games and PvP games as well as games that try to be different and innovate. So if that is you, then this site can give you a feel of what to expect from the perspective. If you are a WoW fan, you won't get much love from the masses here.
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them?
R.A.Salvatore
Well, the alternative is tags as 'fanboi', 'troll' and 'hater' that (some) people on mmorpg.com forums keep throwing around whenever they can.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
It's because of the IP. This one is not just popular, it's almost sacred.
It's just these forums. A majority of the players that will play TOR won't end up going on these forums or any forums for that matter. Everyone on here has posted negative about some game at some point, and they tend to flock towards the newest releases.
The "negativity" (Should be read as realistic expectations not negativity) does not help lower people's expectations and thus help save themselves from being disappointed for hyping a product up in their mind. They just ignore it and then get disappointed anyway.
The cycle on MMORPG.com is fairly constant:
1) AAA game gets announced with a known IP
2)People start to get excited purely because of the IP it is based on
3)Some screenshots/interviews come out. They usually contain some context about being innovative/different and about how amazing the game will be and how huge it will be.
4)Fans buy into all of it and start getting really excited/start creating the game in their own mind which is a bad thing.
5)First realistic folks start posting about how the game will not be as fantastic as fans are making it out to be and they are instantly labeled as trolls by the fan base so that their bubble isn't burst.
6)First details start being released and those details show the limitations of the game and how some of it will play.
7)Realistic people use this as proof of what the game will actually be like trying to allow others to have proper expectations of the game. They are labeled as trolls and told that is just what the game is NOW and that the company is planning on X Y and Z by beta
8)Beta begins and people start to truly see how the game plays, which is not at all how the super fans imagined it.
9)Realistic people once again use this as proof of how the game is just another MMO, not innovative, and nothing all that special. They are labeled as super trolls and the fans say that X Y an Z are being implemented but won't be ready until shortly before release but this will allow people time to get into the game and learn it before those new systems are added. They insist this will be good for the players
10)Game is released. Fans buy up a 1-1.5 million copies and all jump in. A couple days later the posts show up about how the game isn't at all what they expected and they are really disappointed. They then say AAA MMO X or Y that is being worked on is now the hope and the cycle repeats for them at step 1. The super fans say features X Y and Z are still coming but won't be ready for a couple of months
11) A couple of months in the sub numbers are about 25-33% of the sales numbers and slowly declining. The super fans still make posts about the amazing features that are coming up. The majority has now accept the view that the realistic people had been painting since early on in the game's production. The numbers begin to steady out to where the game will be for the next 6 months or so and show what the actual initial sales would have been if people hadn't gotten so hyped up and ignored what the game would really have been like.
For some reason there are a lot of people who just can't help but get over-hyped for each new MMO that is in the works, and then disappointed after preordering or buying a lifetime sub and they latch on to the next MMO in production. There is a severe lack of realistic expectations on this site, and anyone who offers one up is generally referred to as a troll.
Bioware know what they are doing. Similar negative things were said about WoW. Overhyped games usually disappoint.. considering the recent opinions I think most arn't expecting much from this game. Hopefully that will be it's strength.. people may find it is better than they expected.
But it might be rubbish.. either way you are either happy its better than you thought or happy it's not worse than you thought.
Keep it underhyped I say, because from what I've seen I'm not impressed.. but I'm still going to try it to see if I'm wrong
True. But I'm proud to admit I'm a Star Wars fanboi/fanatic...and I can be a helluva troll some days
I think the root of these phrases/names stems from text based communication - text leaves it up to the reader to interpret HOW something is being said.
My best advice...take everything with a grain of salt. Even the hardcore SW:TOR haters are here reading and commenting on it, just as some people here think SW:TOR is gonna be so good that all other companies would be fools to release a competing game. SW:TOR won't be everything people hope it'll be, and God willing, it won't be as bad as APB
True, it's all just forum play in the end, nothing to be taken that serious
About APB, yeah, that's another thing, I'm amazed how quickly MMO games are discarded and abandoned by both gamers and/or companies compared to the early years of MMO's. I've played AoC for a long time and had great fun even while many considered it a fail, and APB from what I've seen must have had the best character customisation tool I've seen in MMO's, their player content generation, the tattoos and prints, was genius. A shame that it got cut off so fast, same as with a Tabula Rasa, or a Vanguard being held on intensive care by SOE and nothing more than that.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Your post is sort of what led me to my initial post. I'll be curious to know at some point when we look back how the hype and forums affect everyone's forums posts 3 months after the game is released. I'm speaking about the high hype of GW2 as well and whether when all is said and done it will follow the same fate as Aion, Vanguard, Warhammer, and AOC (which again I think is not a bad game, it just lost my interest). I'm working on a program that will have the magical ability to connect negative posters here to your in game characters in The Old Republic to see who really decided to play after all and how long you really stay with the game lol.
There Is Always Hope!
I've been syaing this for a long time, that this website, at times, seems like 4Chan. There are more negative nay sayers on this site then there are reasonable and objective posters. Unfortnately there is really no other website that offers the depth of mmo information and discussion like mmorpg.com. It's just a shame that there is so much hate sometimes here. It's probably a result of dissapointment over recent mmo releases, which has disnfranchised many gamers.
I'm looking forward to SW:TOR. The only criticism, or praise, I'll take to heart is when I can try it for myself. Rely on yourself and your experience, and not nay sayers.
Every game on this site gets negativity wether it is a good mmo or bad mmo. I think TOR getting some negativity on this site has no effect on how successful it will be or not.
They should copy this, place it in a size 72 Font and stick it dead center of the main site page.
For This game, That game or next months game, this is 100% truth.
Every new announced MMO with hype surrounding it ALWAYS attracts the trolls no matter what.. People have their own definition of the "perfect" MMORPG in their eyes.. And If the MMO they are following doesn't meet up to their expectations, then thats when they begin to bash it and bash those who seem to like how it's shaping up.. It's always been like this...
Now, personally I feel this game sounds more of a glorified single player RPG with multiple player elements or options if you will.. In my personal opinion, that bums me out a bit.. I, like many other people looking for a true sandbox style MMORPG, don't agree with how the mechanics seem to be turning out..
I'm a veteran of true sandbox style MMORPG's, and that's what I personally want to see TOR become.. I want the freedom of doing what I want, when I want, and how I want to go about doing it! I do NOT want to feel as If the game is holding me by the hand guiding me on what's supposed to be my adventurous quest.. I do not want that. If I wanted to play a "structured" RPG, I have a PS3 and I'll go buy Final fantasy 13!
Then you have the hardcore fans out there that love bioware games and most of which aren't even that much into traditional sandbox MMO's who bash those for wanting TOR to be a more traditional sandbox MMORPG simply because that's not what they want, LOL.. These fans aren't true mmorpg gamers..
So, this is why you have quite a bit of people on here hating on TOR.. Those that defend Bioware are simply those that don't want to see TOR become a traditional sandbox MMORPG, period..
Oh, then you have those who are just in denial about what the game is truly about. These people are clueless and most of them state what they believe TOR will be based on what other people say and not doing their own research to figure out the truth for themselves, lol. These people are the true trolls.
Rallithon Oakthornn
(Retired Heirophant of the 60th season)