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General: F2P: Relax... Breathe

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  • tapeworm00tapeworm00 Member Posts: 549

    Originally posted by Gardavil2

     

     

    You call his response Nerd Rage? Perhaps, if so I am guilty as well.

    But if that's Nerd Rage, then what do you call some People demanding more MMOs go free to play and then attacking those of us that just want the MMO genre to slow down and breathe itself... and remain as MMOs have been... a subscription funded hobby?

    I call it a form Rage as well, maybe not Nerd Rage but more selfish than what we subscription supporters want. We want MMOs to remain as they are (subscription funded with no cash shop features), while others seek to change the Hobby for no other reason than they just don't want to pay a subscription and/or they want to throw their real life money at a MMO to gain an advantage others do not have.

    The change of MMOs from P2P to F2P is being fueled not by the Developers and Publishers, but by Players too cheap to pay for their hobby, and by Players wanting to buy their way into success in a MMO. There is enough of both in the real life... MMOs are just games yes, but they are in the virtual and is why many Players enjoy them... as an escape from the foolishness and selfish greedy ways of the real world. In a MMO traditionally a Player earned, crafted, or was gifted by other Players what they acquired and now the new Players (and some old ones as well) want to change this to replicate the real life rat race? I call that selfish and I call it lazy.

    If this offends some Players so be it. I am increasingly offended that you are entering the MMO hobby and seeking to change it, even though many of us see no need for the change. If you want a different kind of Online game then go enjoy another sector of Online Entertainment.

    And as for the Developers and Publishers seeking to attract a new and different group of people to play your games, thanks a lot for forgetting the Players that in fact helped you build this genre, and thanks for dumping us in the trash just because you have become convinced that you have no choice but make your games free to play. You Developers and Publishers want us MMO Gamers to hype your games, help you bug test them, and be loyal customers, but changing the hobby to seek another group of customers is the wrong way to gain my loyalty, I assure you. Sure I have enjoyed you build the genre in my own tiny way, but that does not entitle you to my undying and steadfast loyalty as a customer when you stray from you first love so to speak.

    If you want to change MMOs, and you want a different group of customers, then at least have the courtesy to call the Online Games you market something other than a MMO. Be respectful and call it something else... for it is something else.

    Some say MMOs must change... like change is something to be embraced and worshipped... I say there is no justifiable reason for the radical changes taking place in the MMO genre other than laziness and greed. Both have no place in MMO Gaming, even IF "it is only a game".

     

    Look, I understand all this "I wish it was still 1999" and "you know, back in the day" thing. What I don't understand is how you come here and nonchalantly say that MMOs are modeled against "the real life rat race" while it's evidently not true and quite the opposite. Not even Ultima Online or old SWG did it right. The rest of them are mimics of such a rat race, starting with the fact that you've got a role to play and therefore willingly confine your whole persona to the rules and limits of combat and commerce associated with such roles. No MMO lets you do anything that isn't combat or commerce related, and due to the very nature of those activities, you're already entering the realm of competition and therefore a race to see who's got more in game money, more skill, more prestige, more gear, which guild holds more power, etc. etc. 

    This basic rejection of non-fake money coming into the game actually reveals how entrenched you are in the dynamics of the competition traditionally offered in MMOs. Saying you 'earn things' is a parallel for what you do in real life, which is work. If MMOs for you are supposed to be a relief from that, then why do you keep WORKING in virtual form? Since MMOs are supposed to not be work at all, then why all the authenticity bullshit about being a good little worker of the game? If you want the game to keep being just a game, then why stop people from buying items and content they don't want to work for BECAUSE THEY'VE ALREADY DONE SO IN REAL LIFE? It's really stupid to think of these games as an oasis of diversion when they're mimicking real life to the point of having guilds schedule raids, schedule activities, people advancing ranks within them, and so and so on. It's also really stupid to think those people who use their money for the game haven't earned it, because they have, just like you. 

    I don't even like the F2P games I've played, but I'm not one to go around preaching about how immoral those who like and play them are. Take a moment to understand other people, for once.

  • SabasSabas Member UncommonPosts: 217

    Nice to see where your priorities lie Justin.  :thumb down:

     

    Just another corporate shill and to think I enjoyed reading your blogs up until this clear display of true colour.

  • KarmaCry7KarmaCry7 Member Posts: 144

    Originally posted by tapeworm00

    Originally posted by Gardavil2

     

     

    You call his response Nerd Rage? Perhaps, if so I am guilty as well.

    But if that's Nerd Rage, then what do you call some People demanding more MMOs go free to play and then attacking those of us that just want the MMO genre to slow down and breathe itself... and remain as MMOs have been... a subscription funded hobby?

    I call it a form Rage as well, maybe not Nerd Rage but more selfish than what we subscription supporters want. We want MMOs to remain as they are (subscription funded with no cash shop features), while others seek to change the Hobby for no other reason than they just don't want to pay a subscription and/or they want to throw their real life money at a MMO to gain an advantage others do not have.

    The change of MMOs from P2P to F2P is being fueled not by the Developers and Publishers, but by Players too cheap to pay for their hobby, and by Players wanting to buy their way into success in a MMO. There is enough of both in the real life... MMOs are just games yes, but they are in the virtual and is why many Players enjoy them... as an escape from the foolishness and selfish greedy ways of the real world. In a MMO traditionally a Player earned, crafted, or was gifted by other Players what they acquired and now the new Players (and some old ones as well) want to change this to replicate the real life rat race? I call that selfish and I call it lazy.

    If this offends some Players so be it. I am increasingly offended that you are entering the MMO hobby and seeking to change it, even though many of us see no need for the change. If you want a different kind of Online game then go enjoy another sector of Online Entertainment.

    And as for the Developers and Publishers seeking to attract a new and different group of people to play your games, thanks a lot for forgetting the Players that in fact helped you build this genre, and thanks for dumping us in the trash just because you have become convinced that you have no choice but make your games free to play. You Developers and Publishers want us MMO Gamers to hype your games, help you bug test them, and be loyal customers, but changing the hobby to seek another group of customers is the wrong way to gain my loyalty, I assure you. Sure I have enjoyed you build the genre in my own tiny way, but that does not entitle you to my undying and steadfast loyalty as a customer when you stray from you first love so to speak.

    If you want to change MMOs, and you want a different group of customers, then at least have the courtesy to call the Online Games you market something other than a MMO. Be respectful and call it something else... for it is something else.

    Some say MMOs must change... like change is something to be embraced and worshipped... I say there is no justifiable reason for the radical changes taking place in the MMO genre other than laziness and greed. Both have no place in MMO Gaming, even IF "it is only a game".

     

    Look, I understand all this "I wish it was still 1999" and "you know, back in the day" thing. What I don't understand is how you come here and nonchalantly say that MMOs are modeled against "the real life rat race" while it's evidently not true and quite the opposite. Not even Ultima Online or old SWG did it right. The rest of them are mimics of such a rat race, starting with the fact that you've got a role to play and therefore willingly confine your whole persona to the rules and limits of combat and commerce associated with such roles. No MMO lets you do anything that isn't combat or commerce related, and due to the very nature of those activities, you're already entering the realm of competition and therefore a race to see who's got more in game money, more skill, more prestige, more gear, which guild holds more power, etc. etc. 

    This basic rejection of non-fake money coming into the game actually reveals how entrenched you are in the dynamics of the competition traditionally offered in MMOs. Saying you 'earn things' is a parallel for what you do in real life, which is work. If MMOs for you are supposed to be a relief from that, then why do you keep WORKING in virtual form? Since MMOs are supposed to not be work at all, then why all the authenticity bullshit about being a good little worker of the game? If you want the game to keep being just a game, then why stop people from buying items and content they don't want to work for BECAUSE THEY'VE ALREADY DONE SO IN REAL LIFE? It's really stupid to think of these games as an oasis of diversion when they're mimicking real life to the point of having guilds schedule raids, schedule activities, people advancing ranks within them, and so and so on. It's also really stupid to think those people who use their money for the game haven't earned it, because they have, just like you. 

    I don't even like the F2P games I've played, but I'm not one to go around preaching about how immoral those who like and play them are. Take a moment to understand other people, for once.

    Have you ever played a real game before? I mean did you ever own a Nintendo, play an arcade game, anything? You don't pay the console to advance your character. We've worked to advance through games with or without players online. This post makes no sense.

    I have the right to like what I want!

  • TyrrhonTyrrhon Member Posts: 412

    Oh my. Where to start?

    One currency? That is what gold selling in say WoW is about. You just now make it official. There is a good reason for dual currency. Even EU has dual currency and that is one big slot machine where everything is in fact real money, as you dreamed about.

    No F2P sells uber items? Erm DDO sells potions that break the very basics of the game mechanics and bring benefits beyond what any gear can give you. It sells content that many times means trivial difficulty dungeons for phat exclusive loot or phat XP or both. Loot increase consumables directly translate into selling in-game gold for RL cash. And that is by far the more conservative of the F2P crowd.

    The worse offenders like RoM sell half of uber gear with the other half coming from game but being tradeable for purchasable goods - so the whole uber gear can be actually bough for RL cash (while it cannot be realistically obtained in-game). Sure some of the uber loot may have expiration dates, some may be in form of consumables, some may require in-game items to complete but they almost always sell either gear unlocks or very game breaking consumables or frequently both, at high cost.

     

    Well, nice piece of thinly veiled PR here but more half-truths do not make anyone feels any better about F2P. It is not that we detest the marketing method so deeply or that we do not play them, it is those half-truths (at best) that we hate.

  • SidraketSidraket Member Posts: 79

    huh, piracy? Really?

    People in the west dont pay the initial money for a box or a game disk, they pay for the CD key that lets them create an account. I dont really see where the whole piracy angle comes from. MMOs are the one genre of game that really can not be pirated.

     

    The thing I dislike about free to play games is simple;

    1. It actually costs more than a subscription based game to play competitivly

    2. Since its 'free to play' for some reason people are still willing to put up with shoddyer service even though it actually costs more than a subscription based game to play competitively

    3. The communities are generaly worse since free to play games mostly attract kids, or people too stupid to realize that it actually costs more than a subscription based game to play competitivly.

     

    Its really that simple. If i play a free to play game and want to play it at the same level of play and with the same standards a subscription based game will provide, i pay more money for worse service, a worse game, and everyone from the community to the developers seem to think that since its 'free' it doesnt matter if its not up to snuff with the latest subscription based game.

     

    The whole thing is a rip off.

  • AgtSmithAgtSmith Member Posts: 1,498

    Originally posted by Stradden

    MMORPG.com's Justin Webb, a developer who has worked for both F2P and P2P studios, uses his column inches this week to talk about why F2P exists and how it operates as a system.



    I can’t think of a single F2P MMO (although I’m sure there are some) that allows players to buy awesome gear with real money. And I can think of dozens that don’t. These elusive Über items are exactly that – extremely elusive. Elusive to the point of virtually not existing.

    Let that sink in for a while.

    F2P games hardly ever sell items that directly increase player power. What F2P games DO sell is the following:


    • Consumable items that speed up gameplay

    • Consumable items that increase the chance of good things happening

    • Consumable items that decrease the chance of bad things happening

    • Cosmetic items

    • Customer-service items

    • Additional content.

    It’s not in a game’s best interests to allow cash items to modify player power. This pisses off all the type-1 players. However, selling items that allow type-2 players to feel like they can catch up with the type-1 players is rampant, and is the strategy on which F2P games depend.

    Hrm, you would think someone who has worked in the industry and who is wriitng for a industry website would have a clue about what he is talking about, sadly her doen't.  DDO, and every other F2P MMO I have ever seen, absolutely monitizes player power, directly and indirectly.  Take DDO for instance, you can buy +1 and +2 Tomes right in th ecash shop, no level restricition - and they are pricey.  Think of your D&D days and tell me buying a +1 or +2 direct boost to a character stat is not player power.  Most all F2P MMOs do similar things so I find his defense of a false reality pointless and hollow.  Why is it that all the F2P apologists insist on defending a false reality?

     

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  • i00x00ii00x00i Member Posts: 243

    It's simple. I'm tired of attempting to "defend" the F2P genre. Everyone has their opinions and their opinions are fact, right?

    In my experience some people simply enjoy the feeling of being able to step away from the computer for a few weeks while not getting charged for living your life outside of that subscription. I personally enjoy this feeling of, if I'm actually playing the game then I'll decide where and when to spend my money if at all. On the other hand some of us don't mind or simply just don't go away from the computer enough to care that your constantly being charged (even when your not playing). F2P is just more convinient for some gamers (That's it). Subscription works the same way (it's just as convinient and sometimes more efficient for some gamers). It's all about who you are, what your looking for in a game and how you decide to spend your money.

    So more to the point I'm just tired of seeing F2P getting bashed on left and right by hardcore subscription fans and then they wonder why articles like this pop up. I see both sides of the light, why can't you?

    I think the overall point that he is trying to make here is that if you don't play F2P games that's perfectly fine. However, when you hear the word F2P seriously relax and take a breathe because there's no need to get all riled up. Your subscription game will continue to be that way while that F2P game that you made so clear you hate so much will continue to be it's way. So just calm down and realize that it's about the type of gamer you are and whether you like it or not your trolling opinions aren't going to change that.

    Edit: Typos

    Most people go through life pretending to be a boss. I go through life pretending I'm not.

  • HorusraHorusra Member EpicPosts: 4,411

    Why would you try to defend F2P...the number of people that like it in the world are much higher than those that dislike it.  Why do you think games are going to this style. 

  • AgtSmithAgtSmith Member Posts: 1,498

    Originally posted by Horusra

    Why would you try to defend F2P...the number of people that like it in the world are much higher than those that dislike it.  Why do you think games are going to this style. 

    So people like cell phones with tiered data plans, high cancellation fees, and being charged tons of extra fees?  I mean that is the way cell phone pricing is going so by your reasoning people like must like it.  Of course, it could be that these companies move in small, incremental ways to charge you more for the same and most people are not aware of it until it is too late.  Same thing with MMOs.  Yeah, in Asia there might be a good reason for the origins of F2P but in NA the move is 100% about more revenue.  Now I don't mind companies making more money and I want game companies to find success.  But when they are doing what they are doing with P2P to F2P I am going to point out the very real slippery slope in giving the guys who design the games a reason (more money) to design them to need more and more grinds and to cost more and more.  Even if the starting point (the hybrid models) is not as entirely offenisve as the traditional model because I know it is only the opener and that once it is accepted things will move another step, then another, and so on and so on.

     

    The issue with F2P, and the Turbine hybrid models, isn't where they start it is where they will inevitably end up.  Once F2P, hybrid or otherwise, is accepted and popualarized then the backstop that P2P provides won't be a competition and the more offensive F2P practices will become more and more common, such is how things work - period.

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  • AgtSmithAgtSmith Member Posts: 1,498

    But he has a point - the issue in China is that they simply do not buy software, period.  Private servers are not exactly cheap or readily available nor do they do the volume that the 'real' servers do, and for that matter they could setup private servers now and let all the cash shop stuff go for free - the issue is not piracy it is cultural.

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  • EdliEdli Member Posts: 941

    Originally posted by madeux

     Obviously you've never played WoW on a private server.

    A subscription based game CAN be pirated.

     

    Oh yeah, those servers. Buggy as hell in which few manage to hold more than 300 players online.

  • LhunLhun Member Posts: 19

    Originally posted by AgtSmith

    But he has a point - the issue in China is that they simply do not buy software, period.  Private servers are not exactly cheap or readily available nor do they do the volume that the 'real' servers do, and for that matter they could setup private servers now and let all the cash shop stuff go for free - the issue is not piracy it is cultural.

    that's where you're wrong. They buy computer hardware, and they DO purchase games for consoles. They purchased FFXI in DROVES when it came out. 

    Make a good game (or REALLY advertise it like it's it's the cure for cancer), make it impossible to pirate, and they WILL BUY IT. 

    The problem is with developers making sub par games. If they're free, people will play them ANYWAY, because they're free. They don't have to be good, just look good. People play HL2 Death Match like crazy because it's free, but once they scrape together 9.99 for CS:S, they play that and never look back, nearly ever. 

    FFXI - EVE-Online
    Waiting for: Aion...

  • AgtSmithAgtSmith Member Posts: 1,498

    Originally posted by Lhun

    Originally posted by AgtSmith

    But he has a point - the issue in China is that they simply do not buy software, period.  Private servers are not exactly cheap or readily available nor do they do the volume that the 'real' servers do, and for that matter they could setup private servers now and let all the cash shop stuff go for free - the issue is not piracy it is cultural.

    that's where you're wrong. They buy computer hardware, and they DO purchase games for consoles. They purchased FFXI in DROVES when it came out. 

    Make a good game (or REALLY advertise it like it's it's the cure for cancer), make it impossible to pirate, and they WILL BUY IT. 

    The problem is with developers making sub par games. If they're free, people will play them ANYWAY, because they're free. They don't have to be good, just look good. People play HL2 Death Match like crazy because it's free, but once they scrape together 9.99 for CS:S, they play that and never look back, nearly ever. 

    It is pretty well know that China is not much of a market for software precisely because the culture has zero respect for intellectual property.  That is not to say nobody buys software, just that the market is largely not respectful of software, music, movies, and other IP as property - heck for that matter the idea of property in China is not so firm a concept.

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  • FolbyOrbFolbyOrb Member UncommonPosts: 357

    Originally posted by GameFarmer

     

    While going through FFXI, WoW, EVE and a few other subbed MMO's, all I ever used to hear was the massive communities in game or on forums come crashing down on F2P as if they were witch hunting.

    I made a plunge 3 years ago to finally try F2P (while still playing my subbed games) to look for myself and see just how the games faired and to test out the waters of everyones accusations.

    1). The communities:  While not the no. 1 gripe people have, but this does pop up a lot on forums and sub games I play. Many argue that the communities are unstable, ignorant, childish, on and on and on. I found many of these communities to be rather helpful, and more mature than most, no not all, but most of the subbed MMO's I play.  Like any P2P or other MMO there was the one person, who would annoy the masses out loud now and then, but then again, thats why there is block lists.

    2). Content: I'll agree with everyone on this. F2P games just lack in content. Sure, there are the gems out there with enough to satisfy my wants, but some of those, are not my genre of MMO and I wouldn't last long.

    3). The dreaded Item Mall: I was so apprehensive about these, that I never touched them in most of my first year of playing my first F2P. Eventually, I bought a pet to start. After that, it was the odd costume fluff item, few character facial changing items and some consumables such as mana potions and HP potions. It was like this in all the F2P games I had tried. But before anyone QQ's over the fact I bought a stack of 999 potions for MP and HP and most in game stacks are only as high as 20 potions, every F2P game I played, allowed a player to also sell these items in an auction house. You could sell pets in an AH, 999 stacks of potions in an AH, fluffs, costumes etc, etc...  I went from spending $20.00 a month/$240.00+ a year on any one MMO (Canadian, so the Amercian $12.99-$14.99 a month turns into nearly $20.00, give or take 30 cents depending on how on par the dollar was, plus exchange rates.) to spending $113.76 in a 3 year period. (Yes an exact number, because I keep track of what I spend on F2P vs Subscription). I even have a  drawer in a file cabinet with other receipts tied to gaming.

    3). Pay to Win: I love my PvP, and PVE too but Im a PVP lover at heart. I just haven't myself come across this in a F2P MMO just yet. I hear about it everywhere. It's not to say there isn't games out there like this. In todays F2P's, I just haven't come across anyone who forked over the cash for something people claim are unstoppable or "have an advantage" because they paid to beat the snot out of others. If it's bought online its always been sellable in the AH available for everyone from what I have seen.

    4). Pk'ing: I still constantly hear people whining Pk'ing in F2P is the worst. Im sorry, but If you make your toon on a server that states, "PK always active" or PVP SERVER or w/e else it may say to state, "if your toon lives here, be prepared" your dead, or will just have to fight. 'Nuff said. Stay on the safe servers. There is no advantages to running around a PVE vs PVP server.

    5). "They just want to rip you off": Can't run a game for free. Bandwidth, employees, servers, etc. Money has to come from somewhere. For me, I spent less than half of the money in 3 years playing a F2P MMO, than I did playing a P2P MMO in only one year. Thats just me. I didn't have to have every fluff item and so on. And once you learn to play the AH like any other MMO you end up using your in game currency to purchase the same items many might pay for with real cash. I enjoyed farming in game for most like a lot of my F2P friends, but the other majority of my friends also said screw it, and bought the item through the malls. Special mounts were available as a drop as well as sold online. The drop rate in most games was like .03% i think or less. I would just farm, amount all that in game cash with a smile, and sooner or later BAM, got the drop.

    6). F2P ISN'T F2P: Overall, no. It still has its own business model on how to make money. But YES, you can play for free. Heres a little tip some used to throw in my face for something stupid I would always ask. "Do the @%%^%$ research". Just like many of you would tell a nub to RTFM or so on. You can tell looking into a game if your able to get what your after in game or not, through ah, buying from other players etc, etc..  WITHOUT paying real cash. Use the forums, ask questions, and quit being the nub your always insulting.

    Overall that was just my experience touching base into a F2P industry.

    Many of you will still reserve your convictions on F2P are a blight on gaming, but being on here daily, mostly just reading the posts and taking in the opinions, I can say at least, many of the "haters"  Have never even TRIED a F2P. Just because they're assuming on others opinions, and they've stated "Don't like F2P, never touched one, never will).

    That was my whole 1.5 cents of babble. I'll still fully stick with subscription MMO's for now though. Content, content, content is what drives me, as well as the option to pursue endgame play. <- Anotherwords.... CONTENT.

    Unless a F2P game comes out that fits MY interests, and provides more, I'm not switching 100%, I'll keep it as a secondary casual thing. But I enjoy F2P all the same.

    A voice of reason, within the cacophony of madness.

    Playing | GW2
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  • WraithoneWraithone Member RarePosts: 3,806

    Originally posted by Lhun

    Originally posted by AgtSmith

    But he has a point - the issue in China is that they simply do not buy software, period.  Private servers are not exactly cheap or readily available nor do they do the volume that the 'real' servers do, and for that matter they could setup private servers now and let all the cash shop stuff go for free - the issue is not piracy it is cultural.

    that's where you're wrong. They buy computer hardware, and they DO purchase games for consoles. They purchased FFXI in DROVES when it came out. 

    Make a good game (or REALLY advertise it like it's it's the cure for cancer), make it impossible to pirate, and they WILL BUY IT. 

    The problem is with developers making sub par games. If they're free, people will play them ANYWAY, because they're free. They don't have to be good, just look good. People play HL2 Death Match like crazy because it's free, but once they scrape together 9.99 for CS:S, they play that and never look back, nearly ever. 

    Impossible to pirate? Thats been tried for a long, LONG time.  Every system that has been attempted has been cracked. Usually shortly after its released. There are some VERY talented people out and about who consider cracking these systems a hobby(or an obsession, knowing some of them).  The main people DRM systems hurt are legitimate customers.

    But I totally agree that way too many games lack any real sense of fun these days.

    "If you can't kill it, don't make it mad."
  • LhunLhun Member Posts: 19

    Originally posted by Wraithone

    Originally posted by Lhun


    Originally posted by AgtSmith

    But he has a point - the issue in China is that they simply do not buy software, period.  Private servers are not exactly cheap or readily available nor do they do the volume that the 'real' servers do, and for that matter they could setup private servers now and let all the cash shop stuff go for free - the issue is not piracy it is cultural.

    that's where you're wrong. They buy computer hardware, and they DO purchase games for consoles. They purchased FFXI in DROVES when it came out. 

    Make a good game (or REALLY advertise it like it's it's the cure for cancer), make it impossible to pirate, and they WILL BUY IT. 

    The problem is with developers making sub par games. If they're free, people will play them ANYWAY, because they're free. They don't have to be good, just look good. People play HL2 Death Match like crazy because it's free, but once they scrape together 9.99 for CS:S, they play that and never look back, nearly ever. 

    Impossible to pirate? Thats been tried for a long, LONG time.  Every system that has been attempted has been cracked. Usually shortly after its released. There are some VERY talented people out and about who consider cracking these systems a hobby(or an obsession, knowing some of them).  The main people DRM systems hurt are legitimate customers.

    But I totally agree that way too many games lack any real sense of fun these days.

    Explain to me how you would pirate the following: 

    Every game that is PRINTED has a key printed in the back of the book. These keys are recorded by the publisher. When you register your game to the internet with your credit card and input the key, the game checks for validation of the key. Sometimes, if you have a good crack, you can skip this. 

    You cannot, however, skip serverside authentication of the key. Therefore, it's impossible to crack. That's it. Done. keep track of the keys you print. This could work in EVERY SINGLE INDUSTRY. You would require an internet connection to set up the game to be playable for the first time, however. This would even work for single player games. Encrypt the game content and require authentication one time to decrypt the content. The decryption key is unique and random based on the key printed in the box for every copy of the game. Require the game to be decrypted every time you launch it.  Use the video card to do the decryption rather then the CPU (to speed the process up) And you're done. no more piracy for software. 

    Again, I say. Create a good enough product, make it impossible to get any other way but to buy it, and people WILL BUY IT, if it's good. 

    FFXI - EVE-Online
    Waiting for: Aion...

  • zeowyrmzeowyrm Member Posts: 746

    Originally posted by Lhun

     

    Explain to me how you would pirate the following: 

    Every game that is PRINTED has a key printed in the back of the book. These keys are recorded by the publisher. When you register your game to the internet with your credit card and input the key, the game checks for validation of the key. Sometimes, if you have a good crack, you can skip this. 

    You cannot, however, skip serverside authentication of the key. Therefore, it's impossible to crack. That's it. Done. keep track of the keys you print. This could work in EVERY SINGLE INDUSTRY. You would require an internet connection to set up the game to be playable for the first time, however. This would even work for single player games. Encrypt the game content and require authentication one time to decrypt the content. The decryption key is unique and random based on the key printed in the box for every copy of the game. Require the game to be decrypted every time you launch it.  Use the video card to do the decryption rather then the CPU (to speed the process up) And you're done. no more piracy for software. 

    Again, I say. Create a good enough product, make it impossible to get any other way but to buy it, and people WILL BUY IT, if it's good. 

    Can't be bothered to find the link, but Ubisoft tried this, and failed. 

  • WraithoneWraithone Member RarePosts: 3,806

    Originally posted by Lhun

    Originally posted by Wraithone


    Originally posted by Lhun


    Originally posted by AgtSmith

    But he has a point - the issue in China is that they simply do not buy software, period.  Private servers are not exactly cheap or readily available nor do they do the volume that the 'real' servers do, and for that matter they could setup private servers now and let all the cash shop stuff go for free - the issue is not piracy it is cultural.

    that's where you're wrong. They buy computer hardware, and they DO purchase games for consoles. They purchased FFXI in DROVES when it came out. 

    Make a good game (or REALLY advertise it like it's it's the cure for cancer), make it impossible to pirate, and they WILL BUY IT. 

    The problem is with developers making sub par games. If they're free, people will play them ANYWAY, because they're free. They don't have to be good, just look good. People play HL2 Death Match like crazy because it's free, but once they scrape together 9.99 for CS:S, they play that and never look back, nearly ever. 

    Impossible to pirate? Thats been tried for a long, LONG time.  Every system that has been attempted has been cracked. Usually shortly after its released. There are some VERY talented people out and about who consider cracking these systems a hobby(or an obsession, knowing some of them).  The main people DRM systems hurt are legitimate customers.

    But I totally agree that way too many games lack any real sense of fun these days.

    Explain to me how you would pirate the following: 

    Every game that is PRINTED has a key printed in the back of the book. These keys are recorded by the publisher. When you register your game to the internet with your credit card and input the key, the game checks for validation of the key. Sometimes, if you have a good crack, you can skip this. 

    You cannot, however, skip serverside authentication of the key. Therefore, it's impossible to crack. That's it. Done. keep track of the keys you print. This could work in EVERY SINGLE INDUSTRY. You would require an internet connection to set up the game to be playable for the first time, however. This would even work for single player games. Encrypt the game content and require authentication one time to decrypt the content. The decryption key is unique and random based on the key printed in the box for every copy of the game. Require the game to be decrypted every time you launch it.  Use the video card to do the decryption rather then the CPU (to speed the process up) And you're done. no more piracy for software. 

    Again, I say. Create a good enough product, make it impossible to get any other way but to buy it, and people WILL BUY IT, if it's good. 

    Online games are totally different obviously. But they make up a TINY fraction of the software base.  Obviously if you have to have a constant connection to a MMO game server, thats fairly easy to do. Absent that, its damn near impossible to secure. Believe me, given the time, talent and money thats been thrown at the problem, only to fail(time after time, after time), if it could be done, it would have been by now. 

    Then there are half witted schemes like Ubisoft came up with. Not only was it cracked within a day of release, but the idiots haven't been able to keep their authentication server up, so their legitimate customers have been unable to play their games multiple times now.  That is NOT how to treat ones customers, if one wants repeat business.

    "If you can't kill it, don't make it mad."
  • madeuxmadeux Member Posts: 1,786

    Originally posted by Lhun

    Originally posted by Wraithone


    Originally posted by Lhun


    Originally posted by AgtSmith

    But he has a point - the issue in China is that they simply do not buy software, period.  Private servers are not exactly cheap or readily available nor do they do the volume that the 'real' servers do, and for that matter they could setup private servers now and let all the cash shop stuff go for free - the issue is not piracy it is cultural.

    that's where you're wrong. They buy computer hardware, and they DO purchase games for consoles. They purchased FFXI in DROVES when it came out. 

    Make a good game (or REALLY advertise it like it's it's the cure for cancer), make it impossible to pirate, and they WILL BUY IT. 

    The problem is with developers making sub par games. If they're free, people will play them ANYWAY, because they're free. They don't have to be good, just look good. People play HL2 Death Match like crazy because it's free, but once they scrape together 9.99 for CS:S, they play that and never look back, nearly ever. 

    Impossible to pirate? Thats been tried for a long, LONG time.  Every system that has been attempted has been cracked. Usually shortly after its released. There are some VERY talented people out and about who consider cracking these systems a hobby(or an obsession, knowing some of them).  The main people DRM systems hurt are legitimate customers.

    But I totally agree that way too many games lack any real sense of fun these days.

    Explain to me how you would pirate the following: 

    Every game that is PRINTED has a key printed in the back of the book. These keys are recorded by the publisher. When you register your game to the internet with your credit card and input the key, the game checks for validation of the key. Sometimes, if you have a good crack, you can skip this. 

    You cannot, however, skip serverside authentication of the key. Therefore, it's impossible to crack. That's it. Done. keep track of the keys you print. This could work in EVERY SINGLE INDUSTRY. You would require an internet connection to set up the game to be playable for the first time, however. This would even work for single player games. Encrypt the game content and require authentication one time to decrypt the content. The decryption key is unique and random based on the key printed in the box for every copy of the game. Require the game to be decrypted every time you launch it.  Use the video card to do the decryption rather then the CPU (to speed the process up) And you're done. no more piracy for software. 

    Again, I say. Create a good enough product, make it impossible to get any other way but to buy it, and people WILL BUY IT, if it's good. 

    I've played WoW on a pirated, private server.  EVERYTHING can be pirated.

  • Hi Justin, thanks for this info.

    I'm a LotRO subscription player and interested in what our future will look like :)

    I have one remark however... You state : "...when you want to buy a game – you copy it from a friend, or a friend of a friend, instead. This means that publishers can’t get that initial $50 million in sales when they release a game.".

    In the way LotRO is played as subscription-required MMO this won't work. You need a subscription (Account) to play the Game, so you can freely copy it to no avail.

  • LuxumaruLuxumaru Member UncommonPosts: 259

    Originally posted by immodium

    any mmo that requires you to have the best gear to be the best is not my cup o tea.

    QFT.

    Total MMOs played: 274|Enjoyed: 9. >:|

  • MordacaiMordacai Member Posts: 309

    wow all those guys that paid for lifetime subs...how ya feeling now?    #$#$%# that....


  • Originally posted by Mordacai

    wow all those guys that paid for lifetime subs...how ya feeling now?    #$#$%# that....

    Well... You'l be VIP for free and get free points to spend each month so what's wrong ?

    Playing LotRO in extended trial with a cap of lvl 50 and only 3 zones to quest is not what I would have liked in place of full access any way.

  • RomanjisanRomanjisan Member Posts: 53


  • RomanjisanRomanjisan Member Posts: 53

    I'm not sure what all the animosity is towards f2p games.  I've played a few that are quite decent, Runes of Magic being a prominent example.  And p2p games can suck very much, too.  Tabula Raza comes to mind on that score.  And as far as p2p games always pushing out new content more than f2p games, you can explode that myth by looking no further than WoW.  A long time between WotLK and Cata with just a few new instances here and there.  So no, just because a game is p2p doesn't guarantee quality in the slightest.

     

    And if someone wants to "buy" their way to the top instead of work/play for it, wtf is that to anyone else?  Who cares how someone else got there as long as you did, right?  God save us from all the QQ'ing against f2p games.  Those games might be the only way some people can even afford to play games at all.

     

    And oh, the thing against Justin's snarky reply earlier in this thread... it was pretty gentle compared to most of what I read in this thread.  Justin doesn't owe anyone an apology.  Actually the trolls in this thread are the ones who owe an apology to Justin, not the other the way around.

     

    'Nuff said.

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