Its funny how same people on this website who despise asian grinder for their mob grinding method of gameplay are ok with FFXIV because its Final Fantasy. once you are done with your daily battle leves what else is there to do if you don't like crafting? yes grind mobs just like you do in F2P asian games. After killing 1000 marmots and warf rats i gave up.
What did I do in Worold of Warcraft pre 60. 70 and 80? oh right... not only did I just grind mobs, but I had to walk between NPCs increasing travel times to be rewarded for less than I would of been for just staying there killing them.... oh and, clikced some boxes now and then to gain quest items... Whoa.... amazing. I guess that 10k exp i got for handing it in, when im already getting 500-800 exp a mosnter was so worth it.....
Questing turned the "sandbox openworld" nature of MMOs into nothing.
Why do people insist that MMOs have to have endless amounts of quests to force players to kill xyz mob. FF takes a different path. The quests don't offer an xp reward in this game, so the complaint that there aren't enough of them is bogus. You can invoke your guardian, but that is SE's version of rested xp and you can use all of it up with the current system.
My question is why can't people be happy killing stuff without quests? You'll find in FFXIV that you level quite quick if you just kill things.
Is the reliance on quests a result of WoW? Keep in mind Everquest, one of the most successful MMOs of all time had a quest system that was terrible, yet people still managed to kill things and have fun.
You are right, World of Kungfu, 2Moons....etc those free to play mmo don't even bother with quest. Even there are quest but people dont want to do. I hope FF 14 will be one of the F2P. No complain.
Also, if the game had a HUGE world, like asheron's call or Eve, they could just explore and kill for fun. In this game the world is TINY.
This bugs me also. I don't know if the world is really "small", but it sure feels that way, when you walk of of town to kill mobs and if you go more than 20 feet the low level "equal" mobs like Wharf Rats become "kill your ass in 2 shots" mobs like the Dodo. Instead of having progressively tougher areas, they just put progressively tougher mobs in one small area and in many cases right next to each other.
-Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.- -And on the 8th day, man created God.-
Traditionally; Final Fantasy games have Grinding in them, but they are ALSO story driven. Quests provide a sense of urgency or present a conflict, a means to tell a story. I have no personal vendetta against Lone Wolves, much less Star Marmots, what motivates me to go out and slaughter them? They aren't threatening me, or anyone around me, nor are they so extremely useful or crucial in crafting, yet we kill them anyway. The repeated killing of the same mob or same type of mob, as you see in FFXIV, is called grinding, its essentially killing something where your only motivating factor(s) are money, or exp. Which is fine and good, I mean you dont play the game to enjoy the scenery, your ultimate goal is to level up, but it IS boring and there ARE other, more entertaining vehicles a developer could implement to ENTERTAIN (woah, hard concept to grasp) as well as give players a feeling of accomplishment. The quest was one of such vehicles, after that came dungeons, raid, open world events, ect, bottom line is, at this point on the gaming timeline, combat should no longer be the feature of any single play session, but what you accomplish with combat as a means of making things happening. I mean, after all, there is a big difference between saying "I just killed 50 wolves! They were vicious and pissing on trees and eating rabbits!" and "I was just in a camp that got surrounded by 50 wolves! I killed them all, single handedly and saved the camp!"
Questing is a story telling mechanic that is sorely missing from this game. Without questing, this game ends up leaving the player with a thick sense of grind instead of a thick sense of adventure.
Questing is a story telling mechanic that is sorely missing from this game. Without questing, this game ends up leaving the player with a thick sense of grind instead of a thick sense of adventure.
While there is an explanation given to the purpose of Guildleves, I do agree we need more side quests with story and purpose.
"Never pay more than 20 bucks for a computer game."-Guybrush Threepwood "I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me."-Hunter S. Thompson
Personally, I don't consider either to really be grind. I try to play with friends and guildies as much as possible, and when you're having fun with friends, it's not a grind, no matter what you're doing.
Why do people insist that MMOs have to have endless amounts of quests to force players to kill xyz mob. FF takes a different path. The quests don't offer an xp reward in this game, so the complaint that there aren't enough of them is bogus. You can invoke your guardian, but that is SE's version of rested xp and you can use all of it up with the current system.
My question is why can't people be happy killing stuff without quests? You'll find in FFXIV that you level quite quick if you just kill things.
Is the reliance on quests a result of WoW? Keep in mind Everquest, one of the most successful MMOs of all time had a quest system that was terrible, yet people still managed to kill things and have fun.
Dunno. I was plenty happy killing certain mobs in KoL with my clan. That game was all about grind. After 5ish years, they added in a small ammount of quests just to help you get a bit more of a boost in exp every hear and there, but they were few and far between to actually rely on. Plus, the quests where grinding quests also lol. They told you to kill 250 x monsters. The monsters you should already be grinding on anyways.
Crafters also need the materials and crystals you get from killing things. This means you can make a trade/living as a "hunter" if thats what you like to do. I also think the fact that this game is a little bit "sandboxish" might be throwing people off.
oh my god are you really saying this? i can NOT believe it. go to an guild-merchant and get the materials. yes that is right you do NOT have to get the materials he gets it for YOU!!!!!!!!!!!! . at lvl 5 and higher you have to get some materials on your own.
how many people do even read the wiki. bookmark it and read the issue before posting. thank you!
You sometimes do get ZERO exp randomly for killing a mob, and I'm not talking about something your suffering fatigue from. I'm talking straight up, nadda, zip.
The problem isn't quest. It is an utter lack of mob variety. Games created 10 years ago had more types of mobs than this game combined.
I've killed rats, moles, marmots, bettles, copper beetles, dodos, puks, some billygoats, some crabs, and little wannabe monkeys, and some dear.
Of all those only the crabs looked any bit vicious. So six of us go hunt, all around level 12-15 in a combat/magical class. All we can kill is what I listed. Fun. Now add in the multi-group exp bugs to where people don't get exp and you can quickly see how this gets boring. No exp=no fun. Sell the mats? You mean use them yourself, but you'd get 4x as many mats if we all soloed marmots. Talk about a fucked up game that actually at its core harms grouping do to bugs yet is based on grouping? That is why we need quest because the damn system is flawed. Fix the system, fix the need for quest. This game has been out TWO weeks and these bugs haven't even been addressed. If they can't fix them, at least increase the exp earned in groups to make it better.
You sometimes do get ZERO exp randomly for killing a mob, and I'm not talking about something your suffering fatigue from. I'm talking straight up, nadda, zip.
The problem isn't quest. It is an utter lack of mob variety. Games created 10 years ago had more types of mobs than this game combined.
I've killed rats, moles, marmots, bettles, copper beetles, dodos, puks, some billygoats, some crabs, and little wannabe monkeys, and some dear.
Of all those only the crabs looked any bit vicious. So six of us go hunt, all around level 12-15 in a combat/magical class. All we can kill is what I listed. Fun. Now add in the multi-group exp bugs to where people don't get exp and you can quickly see how this gets boring. No exp=no fun. Sell the mats? You mean use them yourself, but you'd get 4x as many mats if we all soloed marmots. Talk about a fucked up game that actually at its core harms grouping do to bugs yet is based on grouping? That is why we need quest because the damn system is flawed. Fix the system, fix the need for quest. This game has been out TWO weeks and these bugs haven't even been addressed. If they can't fix them, at least increase the exp earned in groups to make it better.
Why do people insist that MMOs have to have endless amounts of quests to force players to kill xyz mob. FF takes a different path. The quests don't offer an xp reward in this game, so the complaint that there aren't enough of them is bogus. You can invoke your guardian, but that is SE's version of rested xp and you can use all of it up with the current system.
My question is why can't people be happy killing stuff without quests? You'll find in FFXIV that you level quite quick if you just kill things.
Is the reliance on quests a result of WoW? Keep in mind Everquest, one of the most successful MMOs of all time had a quest system that was terrible, yet people still managed to kill things and have fun.
Because killing warf rats and mushrooms and toads is sooooooo fun. Hmm, did I just sum up 50% of the creatures in FFXIV?
Why do people insist that MMOs have to have endless amounts of quests to force players to kill xyz mob. FF takes a different path. The quests don't offer an xp reward in this game, so the complaint that there aren't enough of them is bogus. You can invoke your guardian, but that is SE's version of rested xp and you can use all of it up with the current system.
My question is why can't people be happy killing stuff without quests? You'll find in FFXIV that you level quite quick if you just kill things.
Is the reliance on quests a result of WoW? Keep in mind Everquest, one of the most successful MMOs of all time had a quest system that was terrible, yet people still managed to kill things and have fun.
because some people need a reason to have fun killing the mobs you are having fun killing without a reason
Everyone does realize more quests have been planned from the beginning right?
As many of you haters say the game was released to early. While the mechanics I like are there the all the content isn't and well I'm willing to lvl up until it is.
Everyone does realize more quests have been planned from the beginning right?
As many of you haters say the game was released to early. While the mechanics I like are there the all the content isn't and well I'm willing to lvl up until it is.
Your highest fighting class is level 6. You can accomplish that in a 3 hours at a slow pace. Come back when you are at least level 10+, set a goal to get from 10 to 15 fighting class and see how long it takes and what you have to do to get there (how many of the same mobs you have to kill) and then come back here and talk .
If I didn't care about quests I would be playing an FPS.
Quests bring a purpose, story, gratification and reward. That's what MMOs are about imo. It's acceptable to have a bunch of FedEx quests (kill X rats). It's not if all quests are FedEx or if you need to grind to level up (= lack of content, some may call it Sandbox but it's not. Sandbox is if either players can create their own in-game content like Ryzom, or if there are purposes & goals with rewards by other means than quests that makes leveling less important, i.e. not the main focus).
Now some games do not have a main storyline but tons of side stories; while some others like FFXIV do have a main storyline which unfolds by level-cap (i.e every X levels). In theory it's a nice concept if you do have enough side-quests or objectives to keep you busy leveling up in order to be able to access the main storyline. If you need to grind to access it, there's a small issue.
For me the important thing about quests is developing a story within the world, if there's little lore then I lose interest, I play games to get some sense of immersion, that requires a story, if that isn't being developed then I get bored. I'm happy to grind for mats when I'm crafting but if I'm not given any motivation via a story line for the content I don't see the point. I'm not one for leveling for the sake of it, for me it's about the journey, if the journey isn't enjoyable then I'm out.
I think it's absolutely fair enough that games cater to both sides and I have no problem with people who enjoy the 'grind' but for me killing mobs just because they are there seems pointless, I'm not going to pay for that kind of experience because I find it gets boring very quickly.
For me the important thing about quests is developing a story within the world, if there's little lore then I lose interest, I play games to get some sense of immersion, that requires a story, if that isn't being developed then I get bored. I'm happy to grind for mats when I'm crafting but if I'm not given any motivation via a story line for the content I don't see the point. I'm not one for leveling for the sake of it, for me it's about the journey, if the journey isn't enjoyable then I'm out.
I think it's absolutely fair enough that games cater to both sides and I have no problem with people who enjoy the 'grind' but for me killing mobs just because they are there seems pointless, I'm not going to pay for that kind of experience because I find it gets boring very quickly.
So what would be your example of games with quest your looking for?
Originally posted by wizyear2099 Originally posted by EvilGeek For me the important thing about quests is developing a story within the world, if there's little lore then I lose interest, I play games to get some sense of immersion, that requires a story, if that isn't being developed then I get bored. I'm happy to grind for mats when I'm crafting but if I'm not given any motivation via a story line for the content I don't see the point. I'm not one for leveling for the sake of it, for me it's about the journey, if the journey isn't enjoyable then I'm out. I think it's absolutely fair enough that games cater to both sides and I have no problem with people who enjoy the 'grind' but for me killing mobs just because they are there seems pointless, I'm not going to pay for that kind of experience because I find it gets boring very quickly.
So what would be your example of games with quest your looking for?
Once Age of Conan had it's content fixed it had great quest lines, always enjoyed reading them and it gave me a real feel for the Hyborian world. I enjoyed the story in Guild Wars too everything had a motivation behind it. I'm currently playing LotRO, that also has great lore.
Its funny how same people on this website who despise asian grinder for their mob grinding method of gameplay are ok with FFXIV because its Final Fantasy. once you are done with your daily battle leves what else is there to do if you don't like crafting? yes grind mobs just like you do in F2P asian games. After killing 1000 marmots and warf rats i gave up.
What did I do in Worold of Warcraft pre 60. 70 and 80? oh right... not only did I just grind mobs, but I had to walk between NPCs increasing travel times to be rewarded for less than I would of been for just staying there killing them.... oh and, clikced some boxes now and then to gain quest items... Whoa.... amazing. I guess that 10k exp i got for handing it in, when im already getting 500-800 exp a mosnter was so worth it.....
Questing turned the "sandbox openworld" nature of MMOs into nothing.
I find this post very strange. I played WoW for years and I did not from 1-50 only kill things and open boxes. I found people, Spying on NPC, Dressed up as a pirate, helped npc back home safe, I even killed players for quests. So either you missed all the fun stuff in WoW or you did not play to lvl 60. Sure it was alot of killing, but atleast in some envoirments that made you feel like "Yeah I'm in a volcano dungeon killing cultists" Not just the same mobs for many lvls..
Quests make my role playing more realistic. It's giving direction as to where my role playing is getting. I would take a quest not only because it will give me more opportunity to levelup but because it makes me realize how important the plot of the story is. I find it hard to role play without really knowing what the game and the whole place is all about. I need to get familiarized with the story because only then can I give justice to my character. Well, questing is my favorite thing aside from talking to anyone I see ingame. I think it's rather stupid to tell the whole forum community that you are playing such and such game and not really know what the game tells. The game is often defined by it's authenticity. Why are you killing this mob? Why did this monster become a monster and why are there too many maxes and flies or whatever around the place? I think playing is more sensible if you understand it better and I get to dig them out when I do quests. And hey, questing makes me richer!
Its funny how same people on this website who despise asian grinder for their mob grinding method of gameplay are ok with FFXIV because its Final Fantasy. once you are done with your daily battle leves what else is there to do if you don't like crafting? yes grind mobs just like you do in F2P asian games. After killing 1000 marmots and warf rats i gave up.
What did I do in Worold of Warcraft pre 60. 70 and 80? oh right... not only did I just grind mobs, but I had to walk between NPCs increasing travel times to be rewarded for less than I would of been for just staying there killing them.... oh and, clikced some boxes now and then to gain quest items... Whoa.... amazing. I guess that 10k exp i got for handing it in, when im already getting 500-800 exp a mosnter was so worth it.....
Questing turned the "sandbox openworld" nature of MMOs into nothing.
Would you put FF14 under the "sandbox" category?
I sure as hell wouldn't. I would really like to see someone tell me how this is a sandbox. Someone humor me. Show me the sand. There is nothing to play with here. I've tried. Several times. It's an empty world with silent players.
Back to the OP though. Do some people need quests? Sure. Do some people not need quests? Sure, I'm one of them. Now what does this whole discussion have to do with this game? Especially considering the developers have a main storyline quest and plan to implement several other quests in this game. What is your point? I don't think you have one other than grasping at straws to defend a game that is getting really negative feedback from just about every type of MMORPG gamer you can think of. Your grindcrazy, your quest lovers, your sandboxers, your RPers, every type.
This is a pointless thread and does nothing to help make this game look better.
"The quests don't offer an xp reward in this game, so the complaint that there aren't enough of them is bogus."
So I guess if you call a quest a guildleve or levequest and put it on a 36 hour timer that's not a quest. I guess the only reason to do a quest is for the xp reward? You really have no clue do you? Is this your first MMO?
Comments
Would you put FF14 under the "sandbox" category?
You are right, World of Kungfu, 2Moons....etc those free to play mmo don't even bother with quest. Even there are quest but people dont want to do. I hope FF 14 will be one of the F2P. No complain.
This bugs me also. I don't know if the world is really "small", but it sure feels that way, when you walk of of town to kill mobs and if you go more than 20 feet the low level "equal" mobs like Wharf Rats become "kill your ass in 2 shots" mobs like the Dodo. Instead of having progressively tougher areas, they just put progressively tougher mobs in one small area and in many cases right next to each other.
-Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.-
-And on the 8th day, man created God.-
Lol, why is this even a question?
Traditionally; Final Fantasy games have Grinding in them, but they are ALSO story driven. Quests provide a sense of urgency or present a conflict, a means to tell a story. I have no personal vendetta against Lone Wolves, much less Star Marmots, what motivates me to go out and slaughter them? They aren't threatening me, or anyone around me, nor are they so extremely useful or crucial in crafting, yet we kill them anyway. The repeated killing of the same mob or same type of mob, as you see in FFXIV, is called grinding, its essentially killing something where your only motivating factor(s) are money, or exp. Which is fine and good, I mean you dont play the game to enjoy the scenery, your ultimate goal is to level up, but it IS boring and there ARE other, more entertaining vehicles a developer could implement to ENTERTAIN (woah, hard concept to grasp) as well as give players a feeling of accomplishment. The quest was one of such vehicles, after that came dungeons, raid, open world events, ect, bottom line is, at this point on the gaming timeline, combat should no longer be the feature of any single play session, but what you accomplish with combat as a means of making things happening. I mean, after all, there is a big difference between saying "I just killed 50 wolves! They were vicious and pissing on trees and eating rabbits!" and "I was just in a camp that got surrounded by 50 wolves! I killed them all, single handedly and saved the camp!"
Questing is a story telling mechanic that is sorely missing from this game. Without questing, this game ends up leaving the player with a thick sense of grind instead of a thick sense of adventure.
While there is an explanation given to the purpose of Guildleves, I do agree we need more side quests with story and purpose.
"Never pay more than 20 bucks for a computer game."-Guybrush Threepwood
"I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me."-Hunter S. Thompson
Personally, I don't consider either to really be grind. I try to play with friends and guildies as much as possible, and when you're having fun with friends, it's not a grind, no matter what you're doing.
Dunno. I was plenty happy killing certain mobs in KoL with my clan. That game was all about grind. After 5ish years, they added in a small ammount of quests just to help you get a bit more of a boost in exp every hear and there, but they were few and far between to actually rely on. Plus, the quests where grinding quests also lol. They told you to kill 250 x monsters. The monsters you should already be grinding on anyways.
oh my god are you really saying this? i can NOT believe it. go to an guild-merchant and get the materials. yes that is right you do NOT have to get the materials he gets it for YOU!!!!!!!!!!!! . at lvl 5 and higher you have to get some materials on your own.
how many people do even read the wiki. bookmark it and read the issue before posting. thank you!
I wonder how many people have played this game.
You sometimes do get ZERO exp randomly for killing a mob, and I'm not talking about something your suffering fatigue from. I'm talking straight up, nadda, zip.
The problem isn't quest. It is an utter lack of mob variety. Games created 10 years ago had more types of mobs than this game combined.
I've killed rats, moles, marmots, bettles, copper beetles, dodos, puks, some billygoats, some crabs, and little wannabe monkeys, and some dear.
Of all those only the crabs looked any bit vicious. So six of us go hunt, all around level 12-15 in a combat/magical class. All we can kill is what I listed. Fun. Now add in the multi-group exp bugs to where people don't get exp and you can quickly see how this gets boring. No exp=no fun. Sell the mats? You mean use them yourself, but you'd get 4x as many mats if we all soloed marmots. Talk about a fucked up game that actually at its core harms grouping do to bugs yet is based on grouping? That is why we need quest because the damn system is flawed. Fix the system, fix the need for quest. This game has been out TWO weeks and these bugs haven't even been addressed. If they can't fix them, at least increase the exp earned in groups to make it better.
The more you know...
Because killing warf rats and mushrooms and toads is sooooooo fun. Hmm, did I just sum up 50% of the creatures in FFXIV?
because some people need a reason to have fun killing the mobs you are having fun killing without a reason
Everyone does realize more quests have been planned from the beginning right?
As many of you haters say the game was released to early. While the mechanics I like are there the all the content isn't and well I'm willing to lvl up until it is.
Your highest fighting class is level 6. You can accomplish that in a 3 hours at a slow pace. Come back when you are at least level 10+, set a goal to get from 10 to 15 fighting class and see how long it takes and what you have to do to get there (how many of the same mobs you have to kill) and then come back here and talk
.
If I didn't care about quests I would be playing an FPS.
Quests bring a purpose, story, gratification and reward. That's what MMOs are about imo. It's acceptable to have a bunch of FedEx quests (kill X rats). It's not if all quests are FedEx or if you need to grind to level up (= lack of content, some may call it Sandbox but it's not. Sandbox is if either players can create their own in-game content like Ryzom, or if there are purposes & goals with rewards by other means than quests that makes leveling less important, i.e. not the main focus).
Now some games do not have a main storyline but tons of side stories; while some others like FFXIV do have a main storyline which unfolds by level-cap (i.e every X levels). In theory it's a nice concept if you do have enough side-quests or objectives to keep you busy leveling up in order to be able to access the main storyline. If you need to grind to access it, there's a small issue.
its pretty much same thing. if you being told to go do a "korean grind" do you feel better about it an you go do it lol?
these days people want to play as if everything is a cutscene... what happened to gettin dirty lol?
For me the important thing about quests is developing a story within the world, if there's little lore then I lose interest, I play games to get some sense of immersion, that requires a story, if that isn't being developed then I get bored. I'm happy to grind for mats when I'm crafting but if I'm not given any motivation via a story line for the content I don't see the point. I'm not one for leveling for the sake of it, for me it's about the journey, if the journey isn't enjoyable then I'm out.
I think it's absolutely fair enough that games cater to both sides and I have no problem with people who enjoy the 'grind' but for me killing mobs just because they are there seems pointless, I'm not going to pay for that kind of experience because I find it gets boring very quickly.
So what would be your example of games with quest your looking for?
Once Age of Conan had it's content fixed it had great quest lines, always enjoyed reading them and it gave me a real feel for the Hyborian world. I enjoyed the story in Guild Wars too everything had a motivation behind it. I'm currently playing LotRO, that also has great lore.
I find this post very strange. I played WoW for years and I did not from 1-50 only kill things and open boxes. I found people, Spying on NPC, Dressed up as a pirate, helped npc back home safe, I even killed players for quests. So either you missed all the fun stuff in WoW or you did not play to lvl 60. Sure it was alot of killing, but atleast in some envoirments that made you feel like "Yeah I'm in a volcano dungeon killing cultists" Not just the same mobs for many lvls..
(sorry if my english are bad)
http://theultimatecombo.com/blog/
Dual blog with 2 nerds:)
Quests make my role playing more realistic. It's giving direction as to where my role playing is getting. I would take a quest not only because it will give me more opportunity to levelup but because it makes me realize how important the plot of the story is. I find it hard to role play without really knowing what the game and the whole place is all about. I need to get familiarized with the story because only then can I give justice to my character. Well, questing is my favorite thing aside from talking to anyone I see ingame. I think it's rather stupid to tell the whole forum community that you are playing such and such game and not really know what the game tells. The game is often defined by it's authenticity. Why are you killing this mob? Why did this monster become a monster and why are there too many maxes and flies or whatever around the place? I think playing is more sensible if you understand it better and I get to dig them out when I do quests. And hey, questing makes me richer!
Love!
BOOOM BABY BOOM!
I sure as hell wouldn't. I would really like to see someone tell me how this is a sandbox. Someone humor me. Show me the sand. There is nothing to play with here. I've tried. Several times. It's an empty world with silent players.
Back to the OP though. Do some people need quests? Sure. Do some people not need quests? Sure, I'm one of them. Now what does this whole discussion have to do with this game? Especially considering the developers have a main storyline quest and plan to implement several other quests in this game. What is your point? I don't think you have one other than grasping at straws to defend a game that is getting really negative feedback from just about every type of MMORPG gamer you can think of. Your grindcrazy, your quest lovers, your sandboxers, your RPers, every type.
This is a pointless thread and does nothing to help make this game look better.
"The quests don't offer an xp reward in this game, so the complaint that there aren't enough of them is bogus."
So I guess if you call a quest a guildleve or levequest and put it on a 36 hour timer that's not a quest. I guess the only reason to do a quest is for the xp reward? You really have no clue do you? Is this your first MMO?
Creating dynamic content, like GW2 and Rift are doing, make your actions mean something in the grand scheme of the game.
Killing mobs that are just standing around doing nothing, for the sake of exp, is old and needs to go.