See, Bioware knows that many people like to try out alts. I make a new alt on warhammer (there are 24 classes) all the time. I love trying out a new class in PvP and just having fun. I do this for the new mechnics, the new way to fight, and for something different. I usually play my high rank WE, but always make time for alts.
The bad thing, at least in warhammer, is that leveling is so bad that they made "grinding" spots of PvE mobs just to rush you to 40.
Wow had it a little better with new starting areas, but after a certain point you could level in like one of two spots.
Did WoW tell you to reroll? Nope. Did they let you know that rerolling was fun and a good idea and kept you interested if your main was geared? Sure did.
That is exactly what TOR is doing. Play your main all you want, but when no one is on to raid, you finish the lastest raid for the week, finished destroying the other side in PvP? Play an alt with a new story! Sure, you will do some quests the same, but the overaching story will be new.
I think that's great. A game that will have all the raids (and god I hope the PvP is good <.<), pvp, and fun stuff to do, and have a great rerolling system.
Quite frankly I hope that SW:TOR is a journey focused game. I'm tired of the WOW clones that all have players rushing to the end, usually for content that is boring anyway.
Blizzard uses WOW to harvest hours played into bottles so that the dev team can remain immortal
They can add content and features to infinity and beyond .... if the gameplay is boring it doesn't matter.
I played the demo and it bored me to tears, I really wished i could say different. And before the pitchforks come out .... indeed, I started skipping the VO after 3 minutes, either because it's not "my kinda game" or because they are dreadfully long. The combat was dull and uninspiring, the AI was horrible to almost non present. I'll assume for now that was because it was a demo.
Throw in crafting, space rail shooters, legacy systems , casino's .... doesn't matter if the core is boring.
They can add content and features to infinity and beyond .... if the gameplay is boring it doesn't matter.
I played the demo and it bored me to tears, I really wished i could say different. And before the pitchforks come out .... indeed, I started skipping the VO after 3 minutes, either because it's not "my kinda game" or because they are dreadfully long. The combat was dull and uninspiring, the AI was horrible to almost non present. I'll assume for now that was because it was a demo.
Throw in crafting, space rail shooters, legacy systems , casino's .... doesn't matter if the core is boring.
No pitchforks coming from me. Everyone is entitled to their opinion of the game. Personally myself i enjoyed it but the game isn't going to apeal to everyone. Maybe GW2 will be more up your lane of gameplay? hope you find a game you will enjoy.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
"I do not have enough information to form a worthwhile opinion."
That has never stopped anyone on these forums before.
As they will have raids I can’t see how people can say there will be no end game. STOR will be its own game unlike anything we have seen so far. Not sure I will want to play it, but I am sure many will.
I hope this game can provide me with my KOTOR fix. KOTOR was one of the most entertaining games I've ever played. I really enjoyed the journey but I was also really looking forward to the conclusion (destination) to see what happens. I was so sad when I hit the credits screen. I wanted it to be much much much much looonger.
Hopefully this game delivers a nice story and dialogue options as KOTOR 1 and 2.
They can add content and features to infinity and beyond .... if the gameplay is boring it doesn't matter.
I played the demo and it bored me to tears, I really wished i could say different. And before the pitchforks come out .... indeed, I started skipping the VO after 3 minutes, either because it's not "my kinda game" or because they are dreadfully long. The combat was dull and uninspiring, the AI was horrible to almost non present. I'll assume for now that was because it was a demo.
Throw in crafting, space rail shooters, legacy systems , casino's .... doesn't matter if the core is boring.
I'm coming with a pitchfork!
Look MarlonB, I know that big, bad SOE took away your favourite toy (as PreCU SWG is also my favourite MMO to date), but just because BioWare isn't making an updated copy of Pre-CU there is no need to spread blatant lies and misinformation about SW:ToR.
"AI was horrible to almost non present." Really? Now come on, you can do better than that. The AI in SW:ToR is one of the best examples I have ever seen in an MMO. Mobs run for cover. If you are in cover, mobs try to flank you. No auto-attack makes the gameplay more active and interesting. Don't like story and VO, don't play the damn game.
BioWare make (IMO) the best RPG's in the business. If you don't like single-player BioWare games, you are very unlikely to enjoy SW:ToR. Sure you could skip all the dialogue and the story and rush to 'endgame' so you can raid or whatever, but tbh that is a total waste of what I expect to be a brilliant story-driven experience.
Back to Pre-CU SWG flightless birdy for you...
MMORPG History: Playing - EVE Online. Played (Retired) - AO, SWG, MxO, WoW, RFO, SoR, CoX, EQ2, GW, L2, Vanguard, LotRO, AoC, TCoS, Aion. Favourite MMO - Pre-CU SWG, 3 Years, 4 Accounts, 2 Pre-CU Jedi (1 Pre-9). Awaiting - Star Wars: The Old Republic, The Secret World, Earthrise.
With WoW, every one I know who plays it, including myself plays MANY characters or alts, hence the reason for replayability to be a HUGE factor in a good MMORPG. The idea that I can start the game as a human whatever, play all the way through and then roll a different race and have completely different starting areas and quest progression is just AWESOME and is usually where other games completely fail. Like AoC and Aion. One starting area and a very tight quest progression path makes for very boring replayability.
I'm SO glad SWTOR is making replayability a caveat and I can't wait to make one of every class and race. I also am one of those who has to do every side quest I come across, but I also like to dabble in what endgame offers as well. So I usually pick one character to be my achievement/completionist and the rest of my alts are just vehicles for exploring the other parts of the game via their own viewpoint.
I couldn't agree with you more elocke. I'll most likely be subbing multiple accounts so that I can play all 16 Advanced Classes in the game. In BioWare's single-player RPG's I play them until I have exhausted every possible class build and storyline and I expect to do the same with SW:ToR.
I'll also have a main, probably a fully dark Sith Marauder (unless something else appeals more after release) that I will use for endgame activities such as raiding and PvP. Although, I really hope BioWare comes up with something new instead of traditional style raiding. However, I will also take care not to neglect my alts as I really want to fully experience the game.
P.S. Sorry for double post.
MMORPG History: Playing - EVE Online. Played (Retired) - AO, SWG, MxO, WoW, RFO, SoR, CoX, EQ2, GW, L2, Vanguard, LotRO, AoC, TCoS, Aion. Favourite MMO - Pre-CU SWG, 3 Years, 4 Accounts, 2 Pre-CU Jedi (1 Pre-9). Awaiting - Star Wars: The Old Republic, The Secret World, Earthrise.
One feature being added need not exclude something else.
That said, I would be pissed if my main character was at an automatic and permanent disadvantage when he hit the level cap, as opposed to characters created through the Legacy system.
But it is too early to tell what the system will entail, he only dropped the name (which has been going around since 2007).
A good system which only encourages to reroll might be a very nice feat for a player like me however, I've traditionally always stuck with one character for a very long time, because I never got any enjoyment out of doing the same stuff twice.
I don't rush to the cap, but I usually try to complete everything there is on one character.
TOR is actually the first game where I'm considering rolling multiple classes.
Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!
They can add content and features to infinity and beyond .... if the gameplay is boring it doesn't matter.
I played the demo and it bored me to tears, I really wished i could say different. And before the pitchforks come out .... indeed, I started skipping the VO after 3 minutes, either because it's not "my kinda game" or because they are dreadfully long. The combat was dull and uninspiring, the AI was horrible to almost non present. I'll assume for now that was because it was a demo.
Throw in crafting, space rail shooters, legacy systems , casino's .... doesn't matter if the core is boring.
I'm coming with a pitchfork!
Look MarlonB, I know that big, bad SOE took away your favourite toy (as PreCU SWG is also my favourite MMO to date), but just because BioWare isn't making an updated copy of Pre-CU there is no need to spread blatant lies and misinformation about SW:ToR.
"AI was horrible to almost non present." Really? Now come on, you can do better than that. The AI in SW:ToR is one of the best examples I have ever seen in an MMO. Mobs run for cover. If you are in cover, mobs try to flank you. No auto-attack makes the gameplay more active and interesting. Don't like story and VO, don't play the damn game.
BioWare make (IMO) the best RPG's in the business. If you don't like single-player BioWare games, you are very unlikely to enjoy SW:ToR. Sure you could skip all the dialogue and the story and rush to 'endgame' so you can raid or whatever, but tbh that is a total waste of what I expect to be a brilliant story-driven experience.
Back to Pre-CU SWG flightless birdy for you...
Your post is more opinionated then mine
Anyways .. i played all sorts of games in the past 28 years except for RTS and sims (never could get into those). I did play all different types of MMORPG's too and enjoyed several of them.
I'm not in the least disgruntled that swtor isn't swg, i never expected it to be.
I admit Pre-CU SWG is my favorite mmo ... but i also enjoyed WoW for many years.
What bored me in this demo was the gameplay, not the VO. The gameplay is of the type i have been playing for the past few years and growed tired of.
Regarding AI ... in my demo, the npc's i was fighting were all bags of potatoes ... barely moving at all. Not just me, but also my 3 gaming buds that were playing the demo agreed on this. Again, it was early stages and they might have decided to do that on purpose for an easy demo.
As stated in my previous post ... this game is probably just not for me ... but there will surely be a market for it.
I expect to be buying it though .. as my mates will ... and every game becomes fun when playing with friends.
Mmorpg and replayability... those two words put together just seem very, weird, to me. Maybe ive lost touch with what mmorpgs have become. Maybe i dont know wth im doing in this genre anymore heh. Ive just never thought of an mmorpg as something i actually ever finish, let alone start over again. I guess im stuck forever on the story of one character and the world he/she lives in.
They can add content and features to infinity and beyond .... if the gameplay is boring it doesn't matter.
I played the demo and it bored me to tears, I really wished i could say different. And before the pitchforks come out .... indeed, I started skipping the VO after 3 minutes, either because it's not "my kinda game" or because they are dreadfully long. The combat was dull and uninspiring, the AI was horrible to almost non present. I'll assume for now that was because it was a demo.
Throw in crafting, space rail shooters, legacy systems , casino's .... doesn't matter if the core is boring.
I'm coming with a pitchfork!
Look MarlonB, I know that big, bad SOE took away your favourite toy (as PreCU SWG is also my favourite MMO to date), but just because BioWare isn't making an updated copy of Pre-CU there is no need to spread blatant lies and misinformation about SW:ToR.
"AI was horrible to almost non present." Really? Now come on, you can do better than that. The AI in SW:ToR is one of the best examples I have ever seen in an MMO. Mobs run for cover. If you are in cover, mobs try to flank you. No auto-attack makes the gameplay more active and interesting. Don't like story and VO, don't play the damn game.
BioWare make (IMO) the best RPG's in the business. If you don't like single-player BioWare games, you are very unlikely to enjoy SW:ToR. Sure you could skip all the dialogue and the story and rush to 'endgame' so you can raid or whatever, but tbh that is a total waste of what I expect to be a brilliant story-driven experience.
Back to Pre-CU SWG flightless birdy for you...
Your post is more opinionated then mine
Anyways .. i played all sorts of games in the past 28 years except for RTS and sims (never could get into those). I did play all different types of MMORPG's too and enjoyed several of them.
I'm not in the least disgruntled that swtor isn't swg, i never expected it to be.
I admit Pre-CU SWG is my favorite mmo ... but i also enjoyed WoW for many years.
What bored me in this demo was the gameplay, not the VO. The gameplay is of the type i have been playing for the past few years and growed tired of.
Regarding AI ... in my demo, the npc's i was fighting were all bags of potatoes ... barely moving at all. Not just me, but also my 3 gaming buds that were playing the demo agreed on this. Again, it was early stages and they might have decided to do that on purpose for an easy demo.
As stated in my previous post ... this game is probably just not for me ... but there will surely be a market for it.
I expect to be buying it though .. as my mates will ... and every game becomes fun when playing with friends.
Touche Marlon, indeed mine comes across as more opinionated, and slightly harsh too now that I re-read it. Sorry about that.
I think we just have to agree to disagree on this game.
One thing we do agree on though - Every game is fun when you play with friends!
MMORPG History: Playing - EVE Online. Played (Retired) - AO, SWG, MxO, WoW, RFO, SoR, CoX, EQ2, GW, L2, Vanguard, LotRO, AoC, TCoS, Aion. Favourite MMO - Pre-CU SWG, 3 Years, 4 Accounts, 2 Pre-CU Jedi (1 Pre-9). Awaiting - Star Wars: The Old Republic, The Secret World, Earthrise.
Great article. I am a leisurely player as well...I love to experience the story and all the side quests, and I get yelled at for being so far behind in levels by my buds lol. One of my buds asks me how I can just start over with a new character in one of the games we play, with the possibility that there may be some repetition in quests...I asked him how many of the same endgame raids he had done to get equppied out. He said seventy something, accounting for DKP's, sometimes it took 10 of the same raid to get one item drop...go figure...I would much rather enjoy a new story arc ( with some repetition) than endgame myself into oblivion on the same few raids, but, to each his/her own. I am glad there are different play styles out there, makes the world a better place. I just can't wait for the game to come out. I hope I am the last one to get to the level limit
Are we trying to subvert people's idea of an MMORPG? SW:TOR does not seem like it has been designed as one, it looks sounds and smells like a Single Player Game with Multiplayer mode and a Subscription.
Even in WoW that I played Since vanilla, I only have 1 80 character (I am older school mmorpger), now you are telling me that SW:TOR actually expects me to reroll and replay the game..an act which I only do with Single Player games, this reinforces even more the view of what it is.
WoW did not implement Heirlooms to intice players to play different classes, it did it to accomodate them, because many players wanted and did make several classes in it to begin with, so Blizzard just made it easyer for those people to level up Alts.
But besides that there is an even deeper message being read in between the lines here, if SW:TOR expects people to reroll, what does that say about its actual world and associated gameplay as an MMORPG?
It sais that there is none, because if there was we would not have to reroll 8 times.
This has nothing to do with people prefering the Journey or the Destination.
Because a true MMORPG is about the Multiple Journeys and Destinations of the same Character.
The two are intrinsically related, every time there is a journey it leads to a destination, and in every destination a new journey begins, this is Adventuring, this is what a true MMORPG should provide, a perpetual series of adventures for one's chosen character, all these experiences constitute that character's (and its player) Progression.
And now, we are asked to play 8 different characters in order to experience the story line 8 different times? Yeah, I would do that in KOTOR or in Dragon Age:Origins..but not in an MMORPG that is not the experience I seek when I commit to a Subscription, sorry but I will not be playing this game if it does not hold up as an MMORPG, offering a virtual world within the SW theme where I as a player have the freedom of choice and action through my character's eyes to experience it in my own terms.
U Have 1 Toon 80 in WoW. This means u are a MMO Hater. U have put 3K or more into have the Best of the Best toon on your server and u are so scared of losing your stuff and your 3K investment that every MMO sucks but WoW. Pls don't let me lose all my Work and have to start over.It would be the end of the world. It is almost as bad as a Person who buys a Power Level because why even play the game. Just so u can say Hey look what I got. A True MMO is about xp it all with your friends,Not putting ppl down because they don't got a good enough Armor rating. I was one of the 1st to 70 on my server and did the end game over and over so much that I had to leave WoW it was just so boring after I ran end game for over a year. I wouldn't have left for that year if WoW had better Replay. But they don't have no replay. U got the same sht after lv 20 so for 50 lv's u are doing the same quest. So I couldn't reroll a alt and make him into a God,I did make 2 into uber toons. Which thats face it end game is only great for 1 toon and your alt it is only good for a quick set of armor. Why must of the ppl I know have 2-4 80's is because if someone need this class for these run ,then there like ok I will jump on Joe blow and be right over. Long story short ,don't make up story because u put a ton of money and are afraid to lose your 80 uber toon.Because everyone went to another MMO.
Are we trying to subvert people's idea of an MMORPG? SW:TOR does not seem like it has been designed as one, it looks sounds and smells like a Single Player Game with Multiplayer mode and a Subscription.
Even in WoW that I played Since vanilla, I only have 1 80 character (I am older school mmorpger), now you are telling me that SW:TOR actually expects me to reroll and replay the game..an act which I only do with Single Player games, this reinforces even more the view of what it is.
WoW did not implement Heirlooms to intice players to play different classes, it did it to accomodate them, because many players wanted and did make several classes in it to begin with, so Blizzard just made it easyer for those people to level up Alts.
But besides that there is an even deeper message being read in between the lines here, if SW:TOR expects people to reroll, what does that say about its actual world and associated gameplay as an MMORPG?
It sais that there is none, because if there was we would not have to reroll 8 times.
This has nothing to do with people prefering the Journey or the Destination.
Because a true MMORPG is about the Multiple Journeys and Destinations of the same Character.
The two are intrinsically related, every time there is a journey it leads to a destination, and in every destination a new journey begins, this is Adventuring, this is what a true MMORPG should provide, a perpetual series of adventures for one's chosen character, all these experiences constitute that character's (and its player) Progression.
And now, we are asked to play 8 different characters in order to experience the story line 8 different times? Yeah, I would do that in KOTOR or in Dragon Age:Origins..but not in an MMORPG that is not the experience I seek when I commit to a Subscription, sorry but I will not be playing this game if it does not hold up as an MMORPG, offering a virtual world within the SW theme where I as a player have the freedom of choice and action through my character's eyes to experience it in my own terms.
U Have 1 Toon 80 in WoW. This means u are a MMO Hater. U have put 3K or more into have the Best of the Best toon on your server and u are so scared of losing your stuff and your 3K investment that every MMO sucks but WoW. Pls don't let me lose all my Work and have to start over.It would be the end of the world. It is almost as bad as a Person who buys a Power Level because why even play the game. Just so u can say Hey look what I got. A True MMO is about xp it all with your friends,Not putting ppl down because they don't got a good enough Armor rating. I was one of the 1st to 70 on my server and did the end game over and over so much that I had to leave WoW it was just so boring after I ran end game for over a year. I wouldn't have left for that year if WoW had better Replay. But they don't have no replay. U got the same sht after lv 20 so for 50 lv's u are doing the same quest. So I couldn't reroll a alt and make him into a God,I did make 2 into uber toons. Which thats face it end game is only great for 1 toon and your alt it is only good for a quick set of armor. Why must of the ppl I know have 2-4 80's is because if someone need this class for these run ,then there like ok I will jump on Joe blow and be right over. Long story short ,don't make up story because u put a ton of money and are afraid to lose your 80 uber toon.Because everyone went to another MMO.
P.S
1 Planet is the size of Outland and there is 16 Planets (12 that size/starter planets smaller) So don't think the u got worrie about the lack of world content.
Are we trying to subvert people's idea of an MMORPG? SW:TOR does not seem like it has been designed as one, it looks sounds and smells like a Single Player Game with Multiplayer mode and a Subscription.
I am honestly curious how this game "sounds" and "smells" like a single player game? is it because they have personalized quests for each chacter? I honestly do not understand why people assume this, please enlighten me.
Well, I watched the videos read the articles, it really seems like it plays like KOTOR, then their devs explain how it is story driven, and that everyone will have their own unique story. But if everyone does then how is that different than a Single player game where everyone has their own unique story on their computer too?
What type of Interaction exists it this game between players and their environment? It looks like it is limited to only, "lets make a party and do this part of the story together", no different than the multiplayer mode of a Single player game.
Even in WoW that I played Since vanilla, I only have 1 80 character (I am older school mmorpger), now you are telling me that SW:TOR actually expects me to reroll and replay the game..an act which I only do with Single Player games, this reinforces even more the view of what it is.
so because you dont enjoy rerolling new characters that makes this game a single player game? I know several people who do nothing but reroll to get the experience of each class and how they play. I do not see the reasoning in this arguement.
No you misunderstand me here. The fact that I do not enjoy playing many characters does not make it a Single Player Game, it is the fact that it seems to expect people to play several characters, according to the article, as its replayability value that does.
An MMO should be enjoyable playable and replayable with one character as a core design, making additional chgaracters is an option of the player, but it should not be a necessity.
And yes I understand I maybe in the minority here today, since many people do like to play several characters, yet that is a feature an added option of the game and if you choose to only play one the game should be equally viable and fully enjoyable as well.
But that is not what this article suggests.
WoW did not implement Heirlooms to intice players to play different classes, it did it to accomodate them, because many players wanted and did make several classes in it to begin with, so Blizzard just made it easyer for those people to level up Alts.
So what you're saying is WoW does something to promote rerolling/make it easier and its okay because they implemented it later? I would have loved if heirlooms were in it from the start (well at least BC since azeroth got so damn boring after BC)
I was commenting to the reference of the Article in relation to heirlooms. The Article seems to suggest that WoW did this to intice players to make different characters, and that is not accurate because players have been making and playing different characters since the begining in it way before heirlooms got introduced.
But besides that there is an even deeper message being read in between the lines here, if SW:TOR expects people to reroll, what does that say about its actual world and associated gameplay as an MMORPG?
It sais that there is none, because if there was we would not have to reroll 8 times.
Again this makes no sense, giving players the option to reroll and in doing so reap some benefits does not mean that there is no game world. They are trying to apease several types of players.
Again, the article speaks of the Legacy system as being the defacto way of experiencing SW:TOR, it does not say it is an optional feature.If you read me well, you will notice that I am raising questions here.
This has nothing to do with people prefering the Journey or the Destination.
Because a true MMORPG is about the Multiple Journeys and Destinations of the same Character.
This is your opinion, while respected it is not held by everyone.
Yes it is my opinion, of cource it is my opinion, when I decide to play a given game I base that decision upon my opinion, not someone else's opinion. I have a preconception of how an MMO should be which constitutes what features I am looking for in a given MMORPG before I decide to play it. I don't just buy it because it is new, or because I happen to like the Theme it is based on, the game must have features that I relate to and attract me. And if it does not then I won't buy this game. My preconception is based mainly upon how I have been educated by the first MMORPG I ever played, in my case it is UO, I seek features that it had and the games that offer most of them are good candidates for me to buy and play. I would never buy an MMORPG that only features PVE for instance, I usually prefer Seamless MMORPG's, those that offer Free placement Housing (UO/SWG) and Extended Crafting Systems become prime candidates too and I really enjoy PvP, also I have a preference for Skill based progression systems rather than Level/Class based games.
We all have our preferences and tastes, I am very aware this opinion is not held by everyone, yet, I make my comments based on my preferences and opinions. You do not agree, it is respected as well, you have your own preferences, yet that does not mean that I can't express mine nevertheless, even if someone may not like, relate or understand what I have to say. We may have different preconceptions. But this place is not reserved for people on a single preconception, right? We all have the right to express ourselves and our opinions. For whatever it is worth.
The two are intrinsically related, every time there is a journey it leads to a destination, and in every destination a new journey begins, this is Adventuring, this is what a true MMORPG should provide, a perpetual series of adventures for one's chosen character, all these experiences constitute that character's (and its player) Progression.
What if I level up a character and get to the end game and realize I don't enjoy playing this character?
This varies from person to person, in my case it has never happened, when I choose a class it is because its skills and description informs me in advance how it will play, that is why I chose it to begin with.
But there is maybe two schools of thought here, to me the class and how that class plays is not the game, to me the game is the environment in which this class exists and interacts with. So I know what I like I am aware of my style of play I choose the class that better matches that style and then I play the game with it.
- Duke Suraknar - Order of the Silver Star, OSS
ESKA, Playing MMORPG's since Ultima Online 1997 - Order of the Silver Serpent, Atlantic Shard
What can I do in it with whatever class I choose to play it with other than leveling that class and experiencing its scripted story?
What is there that will keep me playing it after I finished leveling it and experienced or finished its story other than playing another class?
All this is really not clear at this time.
Many of the MMO features found in a game like WoW will be in TOR. It will be 90% open world gaming. Erickson said that the starter worlds will be 60% solo and 40% group. After that, the game will switch to 40% solo and 60% group on the home planet and increasing the grouping content as you gain levels and move to new planets. So yes, in the videos we see from level 1 to 7 or 8 show mostly the story and starter areas. So this will be solo and story focused to help you learn your class. Like the starter areas in a game like WoW or LOTRO or even AoC Tortage. But all of the players will be in an open world questing at the same time. With just 2 classes per starter world and 4 starter worlds. It won't be like STO with all instances or AoC night time solo missions.
The class story arc is a SPG level RPG element in this MMO. It is not the only feature of TOR. It is what is different, so it is what they focus on atm. Raids, group quests, dungeons, PvP and crafting will be in this game. We obviously don't know how they will work yet, but it will be in the game. Unless every dev is lying.
You can believe what you will and other will believe what they will. But only the dev's know for sure. We will all find out next year who was right and who was wrong. But one thing is for sure. You are wrong to say it will only be a SPG co-op game.
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them? R.A.Salvatore
Artemisentr4, thank you for the information, I appreciate it.
It somehow changes my outlook on that game a bit.
We all post our own opinions and replies to the Articles we read. And My original post was done in that sense.
And so, me seeing SW:TOR as a Single Player game is an opinion formed based on the available information. You yourself said that we do not have information on many features that people associate with an MMORPG.
At this time with what available information there is for that game, it looks like a Single Player game, when and if they release more information about other features, then my opinion will be adjusted and change accordingly.
So really this is not about who is right and who is wrong. We can all be right and all be wrong, it all depends upon the available information.
As for WoW, I am not playing it anymore. And I do not think I will go back to it either, it is a shallow game in comparison to what I seek in an MMORPG, why did I play it? because there was nothing better around and since everyone is tryng to clone it, I did enjoy its PvP however, it is the only feature I really had fun with in WoW.
So, I sure hope that SW:TOR will not be a WoW clone (except the PvP system) with a Vocal Story as overlay, I am hoping it will have some of the features I seek (which Star Wars Galaxies did untill it got Wowised as well).
BTW, do you know if it will have open PvP in it in those open spaces where people will be questing (or at least in PvP servers)?
Cheers!
- Duke Suraknar - Order of the Silver Star, OSS
ESKA, Playing MMORPG's since Ultima Online 1997 - Order of the Silver Serpent, Atlantic Shard
If I had never played an online game before and I listened to your arguement I would definatly say i was a journey person.
However after playing for a while i realise I am most definatly a destination person and this is beause I play MMOs to play with people and the people i cherish playing with most are my real life mates. The problem here is we all level at different speeds. We of course try having characters we only play with each other but these never end up being our favourite characters.
No game has yet come up with a satisfactory system to be able to play characters of all levels together. Even CoH with its mentoring system and every mentoring system since has just not quit worked. With City of Heroes (i have not checked in with CoH in past few years) you either mentor low level characters up which ment low lvl / weak characters would run high level missions with their high level friends but these missions would take 3 or 4 times as long as a mission your own level and only worth the same XP as once your own lvl missions. So yes you can play with your friends but with a big penalty.
The other way arround a high level mentors down to low lvl but again, he get a big penalty of little or no XP.
Considering all this it suits us have a game where 40-60% of the content is at level cap. becuase we can all expierience it togther without the problem of all being different levels.
You make good points, and I agree as far as level based games go.
It is entirelly different with Skill basedgmaes, where there are no predetermined classes or levels.
The best one to offer new Character old Character synergy was SWG, if you just started today you could party up with a 2 year old player and you would get automatically the defense rating and Damage potential of the highest character in the party.
This permited you to do Missions independently of your Skills and Attributes with any player and engage the same Mobs that they engage, while you may not have all ofthe abilities that came with higher skills you still could contribute and play with friends n matter whenyou started.
Star Trek Online now has a similar mechanism too which i find great.
The problem with the journey is that most games focus their experience on the first journey which is about develloping your character to reach the first destination in order to embark on the next journey, but more often than not there is no next journey because all of the focus of the game is on the leveling experience and expect players to enjoy leveling up.
There are very few players that enjoy leveling up. So in that sense I am a Destination player, however once I reach that first destination I become a Journey player and seek the new and long Journey, which is nowhere to be found more often than not.
Again UO and SWG for me were great because they had that second long Journey. Touk me 2 months to reach the first destination in UO, then enjoyed the Journey for 5 years.
- Duke Suraknar - Order of the Silver Star, OSS
ESKA, Playing MMORPG's since Ultima Online 1997 - Order of the Silver Serpent, Atlantic Shard
Comments
See, Bioware knows that many people like to try out alts. I make a new alt on warhammer (there are 24 classes) all the time. I love trying out a new class in PvP and just having fun. I do this for the new mechnics, the new way to fight, and for something different. I usually play my high rank WE, but always make time for alts.
The bad thing, at least in warhammer, is that leveling is so bad that they made "grinding" spots of PvE mobs just to rush you to 40.
Wow had it a little better with new starting areas, but after a certain point you could level in like one of two spots.
Did WoW tell you to reroll? Nope. Did they let you know that rerolling was fun and a good idea and kept you interested if your main was geared? Sure did.
That is exactly what TOR is doing. Play your main all you want, but when no one is on to raid, you finish the lastest raid for the week, finished destroying the other side in PvP? Play an alt with a new story! Sure, you will do some quests the same, but the overaching story will be new.
I think that's great. A game that will have all the raids (and god I hope the PvP is good <.<), pvp, and fun stuff to do, and have a great rerolling system.
Quite frankly I hope that SW:TOR is a journey focused game. I'm tired of the WOW clones that all have players rushing to the end, usually for content that is boring anyway.
Blizzard uses WOW to harvest hours played into bottles so that the dev team can remain immortal
I do not have enough information to form a worthwhile opinion.
They can add content and features to infinity and beyond .... if the gameplay is boring it doesn't matter.
I played the demo and it bored me to tears, I really wished i could say different. And before the pitchforks come out .... indeed, I started skipping the VO after 3 minutes, either because it's not "my kinda game" or because they are dreadfully long. The combat was dull and uninspiring, the AI was horrible to almost non present. I'll assume for now that was because it was a demo.
Throw in crafting, space rail shooters, legacy systems , casino's .... doesn't matter if the core is boring.
No pitchforks coming from me. Everyone is entitled to their opinion of the game. Personally myself i enjoyed it but the game isn't going to apeal to everyone. Maybe GW2 will be more up your lane of gameplay? hope you find a game you will enjoy.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
"I do not have enough information to form a worthwhile opinion."
That has never stopped anyone on these forums before.
As they will have raids I can’t see how people can say there will be no end game. STOR will be its own game unlike anything we have seen so far. Not sure I will want to play it, but I am sure many will.
I hope this game can provide me with my KOTOR fix. KOTOR was one of the most entertaining games I've ever played. I really enjoyed the journey but I was also really looking forward to the conclusion (destination) to see what happens. I was so sad when I hit the credits screen. I wanted it to be much much much much looonger.
Hopefully this game delivers a nice story and dialogue options as KOTOR 1 and 2.
I'm coming with a pitchfork!
Look MarlonB, I know that big, bad SOE took away your favourite toy (as PreCU SWG is also my favourite MMO to date), but just because BioWare isn't making an updated copy of Pre-CU there is no need to spread blatant lies and misinformation about SW:ToR.
"AI was horrible to almost non present." Really? Now come on, you can do better than that. The AI in SW:ToR is one of the best examples I have ever seen in an MMO. Mobs run for cover. If you are in cover, mobs try to flank you. No auto-attack makes the gameplay more active and interesting. Don't like story and VO, don't play the damn game.
BioWare make (IMO) the best RPG's in the business. If you don't like single-player BioWare games, you are very unlikely to enjoy SW:ToR. Sure you could skip all the dialogue and the story and rush to 'endgame' so you can raid or whatever, but tbh that is a total waste of what I expect to be a brilliant story-driven experience.
Back to Pre-CU SWG flightless birdy for you...
MMORPG History:
Playing - EVE Online.
Played (Retired) - AO, SWG, MxO, WoW, RFO, SoR, CoX, EQ2, GW, L2, Vanguard, LotRO, AoC, TCoS, Aion.
Favourite MMO - Pre-CU SWG, 3 Years, 4 Accounts, 2 Pre-CU Jedi (1 Pre-9).
Awaiting - Star Wars: The Old Republic, The Secret World, Earthrise.
I couldn't agree with you more elocke. I'll most likely be subbing multiple accounts so that I can play all 16 Advanced Classes in the game. In BioWare's single-player RPG's I play them until I have exhausted every possible class build and storyline and I expect to do the same with SW:ToR.
I'll also have a main, probably a fully dark Sith Marauder (unless something else appeals more after release) that I will use for endgame activities such as raiding and PvP. Although, I really hope BioWare comes up with something new instead of traditional style raiding. However, I will also take care not to neglect my alts as I really want to fully experience the game.
P.S. Sorry for double post.
MMORPG History:
Playing - EVE Online.
Played (Retired) - AO, SWG, MxO, WoW, RFO, SoR, CoX, EQ2, GW, L2, Vanguard, LotRO, AoC, TCoS, Aion.
Favourite MMO - Pre-CU SWG, 3 Years, 4 Accounts, 2 Pre-CU Jedi (1 Pre-9).
Awaiting - Star Wars: The Old Republic, The Secret World, Earthrise.
One feature being added need not exclude something else.
That said, I would be pissed if my main character was at an automatic and permanent disadvantage when he hit the level cap, as opposed to characters created through the Legacy system.
But it is too early to tell what the system will entail, he only dropped the name (which has been going around since 2007).
A good system which only encourages to reroll might be a very nice feat for a player like me however, I've traditionally always stuck with one character for a very long time, because I never got any enjoyment out of doing the same stuff twice.
I don't rush to the cap, but I usually try to complete everything there is on one character.
TOR is actually the first game where I'm considering rolling multiple classes.
Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!
Your post is more opinionated then mine
Anyways .. i played all sorts of games in the past 28 years except for RTS and sims (never could get into those). I did play all different types of MMORPG's too and enjoyed several of them.
I'm not in the least disgruntled that swtor isn't swg, i never expected it to be.
I admit Pre-CU SWG is my favorite mmo ... but i also enjoyed WoW for many years.
What bored me in this demo was the gameplay, not the VO. The gameplay is of the type i have been playing for the past few years and growed tired of.
Regarding AI ... in my demo, the npc's i was fighting were all bags of potatoes ... barely moving at all. Not just me, but also my 3 gaming buds that were playing the demo agreed on this. Again, it was early stages and they might have decided to do that on purpose for an easy demo.
As stated in my previous post ... this game is probably just not for me ... but there will surely be a market for it.
I expect to be buying it though .. as my mates will ... and every game becomes fun when playing with friends.
Mmorpg and replayability... those two words put together just seem very, weird, to me. Maybe ive lost touch with what mmorpgs have become. Maybe i dont know wth im doing in this genre anymore heh. Ive just never thought of an mmorpg as something i actually ever finish, let alone start over again. I guess im stuck forever on the story of one character and the world he/she lives in.
Touche Marlon, indeed mine comes across as more opinionated, and slightly harsh too now that I re-read it. Sorry about that.
I think we just have to agree to disagree on this game.
One thing we do agree on though - Every game is fun when you play with friends!
MMORPG History:
Playing - EVE Online.
Played (Retired) - AO, SWG, MxO, WoW, RFO, SoR, CoX, EQ2, GW, L2, Vanguard, LotRO, AoC, TCoS, Aion.
Favourite MMO - Pre-CU SWG, 3 Years, 4 Accounts, 2 Pre-CU Jedi (1 Pre-9).
Awaiting - Star Wars: The Old Republic, The Secret World, Earthrise.
they are doing this heirloom system to ppl twink his alts and grief ppl and be l33t on pvp? (serious queston)
they are Wowfiyng the game even more? (dont take me bad )
Great article. I am a leisurely player as well...I love to experience the story and all the side quests, and I get yelled at for being so far behind in levels by my buds lol. One of my buds asks me how I can just start over with a new character in one of the games we play, with the possibility that there may be some repetition in quests...I asked him how many of the same endgame raids he had done to get equppied out. He said seventy something, accounting for DKP's, sometimes it took 10 of the same raid to get one item drop...go figure...I would much rather enjoy a new story arc ( with some repetition) than endgame myself into oblivion on the same few raids, but, to each his/her own. I am glad there are different play styles out there, makes the world a better place. I just can't wait for the game to come out. I hope I am the last one to get to the level limit
U Have 1 Toon 80 in WoW. This means u are a MMO Hater. U have put 3K or more into have the Best of the Best toon on your server and u are so scared of losing your stuff and your 3K investment that every MMO sucks but WoW. Pls don't let me lose all my Work and have to start over.It would be the end of the world. It is almost as bad as a Person who buys a Power Level because why even play the game. Just so u can say Hey look what I got. A True MMO is about xp it all with your friends,Not putting ppl down because they don't got a good enough Armor rating. I was one of the 1st to 70 on my server and did the end game over and over so much that I had to leave WoW it was just so boring after I ran end game for over a year. I wouldn't have left for that year if WoW had better Replay. But they don't have no replay. U got the same sht after lv 20 so for 50 lv's u are doing the same quest. So I couldn't reroll a alt and make him into a God,I did make 2 into uber toons. Which thats face it end game is only great for 1 toon and your alt it is only good for a quick set of armor. Why must of the ppl I know have 2-4 80's is because if someone need this class for these run ,then there like ok I will jump on Joe blow and be right over. Long story short ,don't make up story because u put a ton of money and are afraid to lose your 80 uber toon.Because everyone went to another MMO.
Order of the Silver Star, OSS
ESKA, Playing MMORPG's since Ultima Online 1997 - Order of the Silver Serpent, Atlantic Shard
That said, what is the game of ST:TOR?
What can I do in it with whatever class I choose to play it with other than leveling that class and experiencing its scripted story?
What is there that will keep me playing it after I finished leveling it and experienced or finished its story other than playing another class?
All this is really not clear at this time about SW:TOR
Order of the Silver Star, OSS
ESKA, Playing MMORPG's since Ultima Online 1997 - Order of the Silver Serpent, Atlantic Shard
Many of the MMO features found in a game like WoW will be in TOR. It will be 90% open world gaming. Erickson said that the starter worlds will be 60% solo and 40% group. After that, the game will switch to 40% solo and 60% group on the home planet and increasing the grouping content as you gain levels and move to new planets. So yes, in the videos we see from level 1 to 7 or 8 show mostly the story and starter areas. So this will be solo and story focused to help you learn your class. Like the starter areas in a game like WoW or LOTRO or even AoC Tortage. But all of the players will be in an open world questing at the same time. With just 2 classes per starter world and 4 starter worlds. It won't be like STO with all instances or AoC night time solo missions.
The class story arc is a SPG level RPG element in this MMO. It is not the only feature of TOR. It is what is different, so it is what they focus on atm. Raids, group quests, dungeons, PvP and crafting will be in this game. We obviously don't know how they will work yet, but it will be in the game. Unless every dev is lying.
You can believe what you will and other will believe what they will. But only the dev's know for sure. We will all find out next year who was right and who was wrong. But one thing is for sure. You are wrong to say it will only be a SPG co-op game.
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them?
R.A.Salvatore
Artemisentr4, thank you for the information, I appreciate it.
It somehow changes my outlook on that game a bit.
We all post our own opinions and replies to the Articles we read. And My original post was done in that sense.
And so, me seeing SW:TOR as a Single Player game is an opinion formed based on the available information. You yourself said that we do not have information on many features that people associate with an MMORPG.
At this time with what available information there is for that game, it looks like a Single Player game, when and if they release more information about other features, then my opinion will be adjusted and change accordingly.
So really this is not about who is right and who is wrong. We can all be right and all be wrong, it all depends upon the available information.
As for WoW, I am not playing it anymore. And I do not think I will go back to it either, it is a shallow game in comparison to what I seek in an MMORPG, why did I play it? because there was nothing better around and since everyone is tryng to clone it, I did enjoy its PvP however, it is the only feature I really had fun with in WoW.
So, I sure hope that SW:TOR will not be a WoW clone (except the PvP system) with a Vocal Story as overlay, I am hoping it will have some of the features I seek (which Star Wars Galaxies did untill it got Wowised as well).
BTW, do you know if it will have open PvP in it in those open spaces where people will be questing (or at least in PvP servers)?
Cheers!
Order of the Silver Star, OSS
ESKA, Playing MMORPG's since Ultima Online 1997 - Order of the Silver Serpent, Atlantic Shard
If I had never played an online game before and I listened to your arguement I would definatly say i was a journey person.
However after playing for a while i realise I am most definatly a destination person and this is beause I play MMOs to play with people and the people i cherish playing with most are my real life mates. The problem here is we all level at different speeds. We of course try having characters we only play with each other but these never end up being our favourite characters.
No game has yet come up with a satisfactory system to be able to play characters of all levels together. Even CoH with its mentoring system and every mentoring system since has just not quit worked. With City of Heroes (i have not checked in with CoH in past few years) you either mentor low level characters up which ment low lvl / weak characters would run high level missions with their high level friends but these missions would take 3 or 4 times as long as a mission your own level and only worth the same XP as once your own lvl missions. So yes you can play with your friends but with a big penalty.
The other way arround a high level mentors down to low lvl but again, he get a big penalty of little or no XP.
Considering all this it suits us have a game where 40-60% of the content is at level cap. becuase we can all expierience it togther without the problem of all being different levels.
You make good points, and I agree as far as level based games go.
It is entirelly different with Skill basedgmaes, where there are no predetermined classes or levels.
The best one to offer new Character old Character synergy was SWG, if you just started today you could party up with a 2 year old player and you would get automatically the defense rating and Damage potential of the highest character in the party.
This permited you to do Missions independently of your Skills and Attributes with any player and engage the same Mobs that they engage, while you may not have all ofthe abilities that came with higher skills you still could contribute and play with friends n matter whenyou started.
Star Trek Online now has a similar mechanism too which i find great.
The problem with the journey is that most games focus their experience on the first journey which is about develloping your character to reach the first destination in order to embark on the next journey, but more often than not there is no next journey because all of the focus of the game is on the leveling experience and expect players to enjoy leveling up.
There are very few players that enjoy leveling up. So in that sense I am a Destination player, however once I reach that first destination I become a Journey player and seek the new and long Journey, which is nowhere to be found more often than not.
Again UO and SWG for me were great because they had that second long Journey. Touk me 2 months to reach the first destination in UO, then enjoyed the Journey for 5 years.
Order of the Silver Star, OSS
ESKA, Playing MMORPG's since Ultima Online 1997 - Order of the Silver Serpent, Atlantic Shard