Due to it taking less teamwork to get stuff going there is a tendency that it is not as easy to get coordinated stuff going.
That is true, but that just means it takes a little bit more for us to get what we once had in terms of teamwork - still possible, and thus what you put into it is what you get in return
Due to it taking less teamwork to get stuff going there is a tendency that it is not as easy to get coordinated stuff going.
That is true, but that just means it takes a little bit more for us to get what we once had in terms of teamwork - still possible, and thus what you put into it is what you get in return
Haha, for that you would need patience, disciplined players instead of "fast action arcade kiddies" or in other words - players from the good ol´days! The few remaining dinos (vets) are on the best way to become just don quichotes and fight against windmills. One after another will dissapear unless there are the "fast action kiddies" left - when they got bored (which can be by far faster than the old players was getting bored - and driven away from the game -) then the "convoy" simply moves to the next ego-shooter (after BGE is done).
It's a really open environment - the game offers and delivers in return what you put into it.
Sadly as of lately people have not put too much into it, and don't get the awesome game in return that it can be.
The one thing that really irked me about the game: it has the whole map of Europe at half scale yet all the action takes place between the FBs and the towns. Unless you did resupply missions from further back or spawned from another city you never even saw vast expanses of the map. It's all just fly-over country. I don't know why they never tried to get the fight out of the towns. Too hard to code I guess....
Originally posted by Pauker Originally posted by Szyporyn Due to it taking less teamwork to get stuff going there is a tendency that it is not as easy to get coordinated stuff going. That is true, but that just means it takes a little bit more for us to get what we once had in terms of teamwork - still possible, and thus what you put into it is what you get in return
Haha, for that you would need patience, disciplined players instead of "fast action arcade kiddies" or in other words - players from the good ol´days! The few remaining dinos (vets) are on the best way to become just don quichotes and fight against windmills. One after another will dissapear unless there are the "fast action kiddies" left - when they got bored (which can be by far faster than the old players was getting bored - and driven away from the game -) then the "convoy" simply moves to the next ego-shooter (after BGE is done).
My statement still holds water, it just takes more putting into it to get more back in return.
Pauker you should know better, especially if you are (still?) in KGW!
It should be named there where ton of more players in the past. Funny I rember a road map way back when given by the rats and guess what none of this crap we got today was in it. Talk about going down the wrong path.
"This game is that good people can't stop talking about it"
Indeed Stug, at least the game is too good (still) to let it went down the wrong direction further and further; thats why it is worth to try everything that devs finally will open their eyes and ears (and watch the numbers of players patch after patch during their TOE implemention untill current situation)
Recently I didn´t posted issues i am hating at BGE and playschool forums, but today I´ve seen a thread at barracks dissapearing "magically" - no sign of violating the TOS. It was just somewhat critical with the direction of the games evolution. The majority of the players stated, that they don´t like BGE is becoming an arcade style fast action shooter and aplauded the game in the past (several patches/years ago).
I do hate, when devs/mods just going to delete a whole thread without any explanation/statement. Okay, i can understand, that some of the statements in the topic was "salt in the devs wounds" - but hey, why they are going to delete whole topics if they just didn´t fit in their agenda? Does they (devs) really think they can just delete the truth and install their own parallel-universe into the brain of each customer? - That doesn´t work and doesn´t bring subscribers back into the game; instead it mirrors an pretty arrogante style to deal with a dwindling playerbase.
I wonder why devs cannot except, that there are still a lot player in game who don´t like the direction the game is heading and on the other hand complain about too few ressources for creating new (important and addictive) things for the game.
It sometimes seem, that devs are quite happy with the current low population in game - crazy!
Okay mods of BGE - go on and drive some more players away, it is your game!
The majority of the players stated, that they don´t like BGE is becoming an arcade style fast action shooter and aplauded the game in the past (several patches/years ago).
There may be people on this website who may like and appreciate that gameplay idea you know?
Although I quit playing in 2008, I am keeping a close look at this game's evolution however the mmorpg blog has not been updated for a while. Anything new on the radar screen? What are the Rats working on?
The majority of the players stated, that they don´t like BGE is becoming an arcade style fast action shooter and aplauded the game in the past (several patches/years ago).
There may be people on this website who may like and appreciate that gameplay idea you know?
Just sayin...
My statement of "the majority of players....." was relayed to the posters in the deleted thread.
Thats okay with me when other people have a different opinion - even if i would have the admin power to eliminate their different opinion (to mine) in their statements - i never ever would delete a post with oposite opinion for just making them "a dead mouth". It wouldn´t make my own opinion more or less valuable - same as theirs. But deleting posts of players who indeed are holding a different opinion with a different expectation of the game doesn´t make the current game better or the "yes-sayers" opinions more (or less) valuable.
Do you know what is the effect of deleting almost everything and everybody´s statement, when it goes contrary to the current crs agenda?
With such a behavior they (devs) cut themselfs from a wider feedback of a wider players audience.
There shouldn´t be "good opinions with lots of value" and "bad opinions with almost no value, so such statements needs to get deleted" - there should be only "customers opinions - all with the same amount of value"
From what i´ve noticed (inside and outside of "playschool forums") in many different forums, there IS indeed a huge potential of players (which currently turned their back on the game or are planning to let their subscription running out) - the majority of this players would INDEED welcome a roll back of the game to 1.2x (pre TOEs).
Just guess who´s Server population would be more numerous - the current game server or a hypothetical parrallel-server with the game in a version of pre TOEs. I bet, the older version of the game would enjoy within a year by far more players than at the current live server can be counted! - Even when the game evolates further in the current direction, i will hold my bet more easy.
I´ve explained, what the difference of the "wow-effect" of new shiny bushes, trees, avatars and new playable units on the other side is. It is very simple:
Eyecandies for shure makes players the first few mission having a "WOW-feeling", but for how long? New units provide addition for so much longer - players need to learn the pro´s and con´s of a new unit, then they need a lot of practise playing with the new unit untill they become experts. Just take a rifleman - when spawning into a new uppolished shiny world with lots of eyecandies - what does it means? Yes, it is still a rifleman!
Or just think about a matty-driver - does his tank move a little bit faster in an uppolished world? No, it is still a relatively slow moving matty - and doesn´t become a cromwell due to FRUs, PPOs, ragdoll, etc.
Same old map, same old stuff to play in the same old brigade rotation/stacking again and again doesn´t become less boring with eyecandies.
But yeah, it is fine with me, if there are players for whom little nice blowing flowers at the northern part of the map in the wide wastelands are more important than a new unit to play.
Normally when discussing something with somone there is a technique you can use called "fogging" saying "I agree but..."
Im going to be polite and not fog you and say that I don't agree with your comment about a server with the old 1.2 rulest vs the new ruleset.
Reason being is the current rulesets where created after the old ruleset effectively broke the game and people were leaving the game (2004?) and new recruits were not staying (remember the exit survey results????). TOE's and AO's came in along as a new and fresh ruleset and the game picked up again. Great.
Remember that some MMO's last less than 1 year and WWIIOL has lasted 4 years since the last rules shake up which I know you would agree with me proves the uniqueness of this game and the game world.
Now we are at a new crossroads after 4 years , new spawning possibility (non fixed spawnpoints - awesome!!!!) which pushes play back to the (arguably) Infantry squads.
When you claim, that the old ruleset (1.2x) evectively broke the game - what does we have now? Even when the game was broken in the past - it had more players than now! Just follow the topics in playschool.
Okay, lets do some mathematics:
I think you can agree, that in the past (when the game was "broken") there was by far much more players - let that numbers call "X". As you said, there was a decline of players back in the old days, which we call "Y".
After TOEs another amount of players left the game - "A", while others returned - "B"; the numbers in game what we have currently in game, lets call "C".
I´ll give you that "Y" > "A", but you should consider "X" and "C" too. The percentage of "Y" compared to "X" isn´t as huge as the percentage of "A" compared to "C". The current numbers are pretty close to the critical mass - below that numbers, the game is becoming unplayable because of too low numbers. With each step further away from a simulation "A" will increase, while "B" doesn´t mean all will remain in game for long term. Just think about the long term players - their number is getting lower and lower. Indeed we can say, that even the numbers of "Y" is larger than "C".
(X-Y)>((B-A)+C)
Another note, you should consider:
When going back the playschool forum and read the topic of all the TOE-supporters - where have their majority went recently? They left the game in the periode between TOEs have been implemented and now. Substract from current numbers the lobby which is still in game but favours a pre TOE ruleset, then you will see that clearly a second server with a pre-TOE ruleset will have more numbers than the current servers. I think in one way the devs. don´t dare to bring up a different server including a pre TOE ruleset - with different subscription and different fees, because then the live-server with current ruleset will be almost dead - at least by far under the critical mass.
On the other hand - the argument that the pb cannot afford a splitting into 2 groups of players - cannot hold water, because sooner or later the preTOE-lobby will leave the game because of the game drifting more and more into BF2 style plus the TOE/AO/HC problems, plus the lack of new units.
Like it or not, but the lobby of pre TOE is close to 40 % of the current players - a server with pre TOE ruleset will gain numbers from returning "A"s; while the current live-server hasn´t seen the return of "Y"s now for some years - they will propably not come back in the next years too - maybe because of the arcade-style we can see now and even more in the future.
This is, why i forsee a much stronger population of a second serverset with pre TOE ruleset than the population of a 1.3x rulesetserver.
Tanking aint fun anymore - especially when TIER 2 hits in and bazookas and shreks became available.
Nothing has changed and for tankers there is ony one option left - spawning in and rushing to hostile spawns and try to camp them as long as possible. AT-Inf spawning from FRUs seems to be all over the area and the former lone wolf rambo sapper is on steroids now with his RPAT. They don´t mind running out about 2k from a town to kill tanks and reammo on a hidden FRU somewhere.
It doesn´t make sense to search a hostile FRU with a 40 tons MBT. The claims, that tanks only should go with Inf-cover or other tanks in team doesn´t prevent Mr. Uber-RPAT to blow one or two tanks before he get killed.
Btw. which Inf-player is willing to stay with a tank far away from towns for several hours and besides that - that Inf cannot stop a sneaky RPAT anyway before the tank gots blow up.
Comments
Hm, you are right with your first sentence - (and several patches ago)
Unfortunately the environment isn´t that open as it used to be years before
Unfortunately the current environment doesn´t "reward" patience players - nor does the gameplay is doing so;
Unfortunately that causes more and more "fast action-kiddies" are playing, while vets are leaving and
Unfortunately - Your´e right, "fast action kiddies" doesn´t give a damn and put nothing into the game than fast arcade action
Unfortunately current environment and gameplay supporting those kiddies and that makes the game went away from a sim.
Due to it taking less teamwork to get stuff going there is a tendency that it is not as easy to get coordinated stuff going.
That is true, but that just means it takes a little bit more for us to get what we once had in terms of teamwork - still possible, and thus what you put into it is what you get in return
Haha, for that you would need patience, disciplined players instead of "fast action arcade kiddies" or in other words - players from the good ol´days! The few remaining dinos (vets) are on the best way to become just don quichotes and fight against windmills. One after another will dissapear unless there are the "fast action kiddies" left - when they got bored (which can be by far faster than the old players was getting bored - and driven away from the game -) then the "convoy" simply moves to the next ego-shooter (after BGE is done).
The one thing that really irked me about the game: it has the whole map of Europe at half scale yet all the action takes place between the FBs and the towns. Unless you did resupply missions from further back or spawned from another city you never even saw vast expanses of the map. It's all just fly-over country. I don't know why they never tried to get the fight out of the towns. Too hard to code I guess....
My statement still holds water, it just takes more putting into it to get more back in return.
Pauker you should know better, especially if you are (still?) in KGW!
Only thing I don't like about WWIIOL is the sappers that carry pixie-dust charges!
"I Win" Buttons shoul;d not exist in this game unless historical factors in real life :-).
This thread should be renamed "Everything was so much better in the old days".
Whiners.
It should be named there where ton of more players in the past. Funny I rember a road map way back when given by the rats and guess what none of this crap we got today was in it. Talk about going down the wrong path.
NO, i just think about renaming this thread in:
"Whats not allowed to say in Playschool"
Indeed Stug, at least the game is too good (still) to let it went down the wrong direction further and further; thats why it is worth to try everything that devs finally will open their eyes and ears (and watch the numbers of players patch after patch during their TOE implemention untill current situation)
Recently I didn´t posted issues i am hating at BGE and playschool forums, but today I´ve seen a thread at barracks dissapearing "magically" - no sign of violating the TOS. It was just somewhat critical with the direction of the games evolution. The majority of the players stated, that they don´t like BGE is becoming an arcade style fast action shooter and aplauded the game in the past (several patches/years ago).
I do hate, when devs/mods just going to delete a whole thread without any explanation/statement. Okay, i can understand, that some of the statements in the topic was "salt in the devs wounds" - but hey, why they are going to delete whole topics if they just didn´t fit in their agenda? Does they (devs) really think they can just delete the truth and install their own parallel-universe into the brain of each customer? - That doesn´t work and doesn´t bring subscribers back into the game; instead it mirrors an pretty arrogante style to deal with a dwindling playerbase.
I wonder why devs cannot except, that there are still a lot player in game who don´t like the direction the game is heading and on the other hand complain about too few ressources for creating new (important and addictive) things for the game.
It sometimes seem, that devs are quite happy with the current low population in game - crazy!
Okay mods of BGE - go on and drive some more players away, it is your game!
There may be people on this website who may like and appreciate that gameplay idea you know?
Just sayin...
Although I quit playing in 2008, I am keeping a close look at this game's evolution however the mmorpg blog has not been updated for a while. Anything new on the radar screen? What are the Rats working on?
Wish I could still access The Barracks forum
My statement of "the majority of players....." was relayed to the posters in the deleted thread.
Thats okay with me when other people have a different opinion - even if i would have the admin power to eliminate their different opinion (to mine) in their statements - i never ever would delete a post with oposite opinion for just making them "a dead mouth". It wouldn´t make my own opinion more or less valuable - same as theirs. But deleting posts of players who indeed are holding a different opinion with a different expectation of the game doesn´t make the current game better or the "yes-sayers" opinions more (or less) valuable.
Do you know what is the effect of deleting almost everything and everybody´s statement, when it goes contrary to the current crs agenda?
With such a behavior they (devs) cut themselfs from a wider feedback of a wider players audience.
There shouldn´t be "good opinions with lots of value" and "bad opinions with almost no value, so such statements needs to get deleted" - there should be only "customers opinions - all with the same amount of value"
From what i´ve noticed (inside and outside of "playschool forums") in many different forums, there IS indeed a huge potential of players (which currently turned their back on the game or are planning to let their subscription running out) - the majority of this players would INDEED welcome a roll back of the game to 1.2x (pre TOEs).
Just guess who´s Server population would be more numerous - the current game server or a hypothetical parrallel-server with the game in a version of pre TOEs. I bet, the older version of the game would enjoy within a year by far more players than at the current live server can be counted! - Even when the game evolates further in the current direction, i will hold my bet more easy.
I´ve explained, what the difference of the "wow-effect" of new shiny bushes, trees, avatars and new playable units on the other side is. It is very simple:
Eyecandies for shure makes players the first few mission having a "WOW-feeling", but for how long? New units provide addition for so much longer - players need to learn the pro´s and con´s of a new unit, then they need a lot of practise playing with the new unit untill they become experts. Just take a rifleman - when spawning into a new uppolished shiny world with lots of eyecandies - what does it means? Yes, it is still a rifleman!
Or just think about a matty-driver - does his tank move a little bit faster in an uppolished world? No, it is still a relatively slow moving matty - and doesn´t become a cromwell due to FRUs, PPOs, ragdoll, etc.
Same old map, same old stuff to play in the same old brigade rotation/stacking again and again doesn´t become less boring with eyecandies.
But yeah, it is fine with me, if there are players for whom little nice blowing flowers at the northern part of the map in the wide wastelands are more important than a new unit to play.
Normally when discussing something with somone there is a technique you can use called "fogging" saying "I agree but..."
Im going to be polite and not fog you and say that I don't agree with your comment about a server with the old 1.2 rulest vs the new ruleset.
Reason being is the current rulesets where created after the old ruleset effectively broke the game and people were leaving the game (2004?) and new recruits were not staying (remember the exit survey results????). TOE's and AO's came in along as a new and fresh ruleset and the game picked up again. Great.
Remember that some MMO's last less than 1 year and WWIIOL has lasted 4 years since the last rules shake up which I know you would agree with me proves the uniqueness of this game and the game world.
Now we are at a new crossroads after 4 years , new spawning possibility (non fixed spawnpoints - awesome!!!!) which pushes play back to the (arguably) Infantry squads.
@ Stug:
When you claim, that the old ruleset (1.2x) evectively broke the game - what does we have now? Even when the game was broken in the past - it had more players than now! Just follow the topics in playschool.
Okay, lets do some mathematics:
I think you can agree, that in the past (when the game was "broken") there was by far much more players - let that numbers call "X". As you said, there was a decline of players back in the old days, which we call "Y".
After TOEs another amount of players left the game - "A", while others returned - "B"; the numbers in game what we have currently in game, lets call "C".
I´ll give you that "Y" > "A", but you should consider "X" and "C" too. The percentage of "Y" compared to "X" isn´t as huge as the percentage of "A" compared to "C". The current numbers are pretty close to the critical mass - below that numbers, the game is becoming unplayable because of too low numbers. With each step further away from a simulation "A" will increase, while "B" doesn´t mean all will remain in game for long term. Just think about the long term players - their number is getting lower and lower. Indeed we can say, that even the numbers of "Y" is larger than "C".
(X-Y)>((B-A)+C)
Another note, you should consider:
When going back the playschool forum and read the topic of all the TOE-supporters - where have their majority went recently? They left the game in the periode between TOEs have been implemented and now. Substract from current numbers the lobby which is still in game but favours a pre TOE ruleset, then you will see that clearly a second server with a pre-TOE ruleset will have more numbers than the current servers. I think in one way the devs. don´t dare to bring up a different server including a pre TOE ruleset - with different subscription and different fees, because then the live-server with current ruleset will be almost dead - at least by far under the critical mass.
On the other hand - the argument that the pb cannot afford a splitting into 2 groups of players - cannot hold water, because sooner or later the preTOE-lobby will leave the game because of the game drifting more and more into BF2 style plus the TOE/AO/HC problems, plus the lack of new units.
Like it or not, but the lobby of pre TOE is close to 40 % of the current players - a server with pre TOE ruleset will gain numbers from returning "A"s; while the current live-server hasn´t seen the return of "Y"s now for some years - they will propably not come back in the next years too - maybe because of the arcade-style we can see now and even more in the future.
This is, why i forsee a much stronger population of a second serverset with pre TOE ruleset than the population of a 1.3x rulesetserver.
Even a year later nothing has changed besides much lower population - need to necromance
Tanking aint fun anymore - especially when TIER 2 hits in and bazookas and shreks became available.
Nothing has changed and for tankers there is ony one option left - spawning in and rushing to hostile spawns and try to camp them as long as possible. AT-Inf spawning from FRUs seems to be all over the area and the former lone wolf rambo sapper is on steroids now with his RPAT. They don´t mind running out about 2k from a town to kill tanks and reammo on a hidden FRU somewhere.
It doesn´t make sense to search a hostile FRU with a 40 tons MBT. The claims, that tanks only should go with Inf-cover or other tanks in team doesn´t prevent Mr. Uber-RPAT to blow one or two tanks before he get killed.
Btw. which Inf-player is willing to stay with a tank far away from towns for several hours and besides that - that Inf cannot stop a sneaky RPAT anyway before the tank gots blow up.
Its total crap now to spawn a tank.