You don't get more options, you get less with the ability to pay for more options. Now instead of choice you have to make choices on what you buy if you want into a certain part of the game. Flexability, if you want to play alts or change mains how much will that cost? Crafting? Sure you can pay a minimal amoutn, for a minimal experience. How large is the market for this even? People believing they have gotten a good deal at the expense of what? The day people start saying P2P games are almost as good as a cash shop game is the day we'll know cash shops are better. As it stands only failed MMOs and sub-par games are cash shop. People say they are almost as good as a AAA title, almost...
As I noted with DDO when it went F2P.
It was a "last ditch" move on Turbine to save DDO from going under, as the game was failing as as P2P MMO. It simply wasn't good enough to warrant a subscription for too many people. It went F2P as an attempt to save it...
Almost overnight, DDO became the Darling of the F2P scene, being hailed as proof that F2P MMOs *can* be as good as AAA P2P MMOs!
The incredible irony was lost only on the die-hard F2P fans.
DDO was the first example of a western AAA MMO going F2P so it was pretty much the only option back then.
What DDO proved was that having a better business model (if done right) can get you alot of new players and in the end more moeny for the company. That it was dieing before is just further proof of what a great succes the F2P move was, since it is now alive and thriving. Now you could apply the same model to almost all MMOs to make them better both for players an d the devs. Turbine showed the industry how to do F2P right and the consumers liked it, now the industry follow.
Same with LoTRO. LoTRO went F2P and, again, you see F2P fans marvelling at how many options it has "for a F2P MMO". Go check out the MMOHut "first look" for LoTRO F2P on YouTube. Omer expresses that very sentiment right in the video.
F2P fans are so desensitized to fewer options, less gameplay and lower overall production quality that even a failure of a P2P MMO (DDO) was a gem to them.
That's not saying much for the F2P MMO scene.
Yes it is saying that the DDO/LotrO model is good while there are alot of crappy korean f2p grinders.
As has been stated, the problem many have (myself included) with the F2P model is that instead of the gameplay being designed to keep the player engaged and playing, it's designed to direct them to the cash shop. It's designed to entice them with nifty items that provide convenience, and to get around obstacles and over road-bumps *deliberately designed into the game* in the first place. The difference in them is crystal clear.
A subscription MMO use the same tactics. They want to keep your sub so they make alot of time sinks to get your money. A game that sells you content instead must focus on quality instead or people wont buy it. Seems like this is just another "idea" from F2P haters that F2P=Bad because I say so. And thoose games give you the OPTION to sub if you want to.
It's like driving down a road you've driven a hundred times, to find one day that there's a wall in the middle of it. The wall was never there before, nor does it serve any purpose. On the side of the road is a sign that says "Detour" with an arrow pointing down a narrow side-road.
In the wall is a massive gate, large enough for traffic to flow through. Next to the gate is a guard. As each driver pulls up, but before they turn off to the detour, the guard approaches their car and says, "You'll have to take the detour here and drive around if you need to get through.... *Unless* you want to buy this handy key I can sell you for only $10! It'll save you the hassle of having to drive out of your way *and* save you time! Convenience!". When the drivers object, the guard says "Oh, now don't get testy.. I'm not *forcing* you to buy this key. You are free to drive around like the others. I'm merely offering you the convenience of not having to!". That's basically what F2P/Cash Shop games are like to me.... at least in that aspect.
Yea, long boring metaphores is always a good tactic in debates...
I have other issues with them as well, such as how immersion-breaking it is to go up to a NPC that clearly has a quest, only to be told "You must purchase this content. Click Here To Go To Our Shop!" Why even indicate they have a quest if I can't access it? The answer, of course, is because it's one more opportunity to get me to open my wallet.
If you don't like it... get a subscription. You have the option to get the game as you like it.
In a P2P MMO... I pay my monthly fee, and then do as I wish, at my own pace. In a F2P MMO, I'm hit with a constant barrage of "Sale!" and "Buy!" and other various distractions intended only to get me spend "a little more".
Most P2P MMOs already have a cash shop. I don't spend anything extra than my sub in DDO and LotrO, I even can use the free points I get to buy anything I want which is not possible in P2P MMOs with cash shops.
Sure there are negative aspects of a F2P business model, there always is. But the benefits are so much bigger and it's imo a win win for consumers and the developers.
If WoW = The Beatles and WAR = Led Zeppelin Then LotrO = Pink Floyd
I have other issues with them as well, such as how immersion-breaking it is to go up to a NPC that clearly has a quest, only to be told "You must purchase this content. Click Here To Go To Our Shop!" Why even indicate they have a quest if I can't access it? The answer, of course, is because it's one more opportunity to get me to open my wallet.
In a P2P MMO... I pay my monthly fee, and then do as I wish, at my own pace. In a F2P MMO, I'm hit with a constant barrage of "Sale!" and "Buy!" and other various distractions intended only to get me spend "a little more".
What you just describe is called boxed "expansion" in p2p games which you must purchase from stores to lift the level cap, opening new quests/areas/storylines, and introduce new gears/items.
Who says everyone paying the same sub fee is equal in p2p?? Those who don't own the latest expansions certainly aren't.
According to Cryptics Twitter STO will go F2p if we support COs conversion.
Cryptic is impressed with Turbines offerings and wants a piece of the pie.
What do you guys think of that? Would you make an a free account for CO just so STO could go f2p also?
I think I would. The more Pay as you go options the better.
I wouldn't because it sounds like the typical "hostage holding" tactics this company often employs, if they don't go f2p they will fold as I doubt STO has the population to support the game with the sub fee as they have it and I will not even waste my time making a free account when the logic conclusion is for STO to already be a f2p hybrid model. So I say to them if they think they can make STO survive in the current environment then good luck but no I won't subject myself to becoming an advertising tool for them simply to get them to do the right thing.
The only Cryptic title we ever bought was CoH at launch....me and the wife both got a copy.
In the yrs since we didnt get CO, and STO....so I suppose I really cant comment from current experience with them.
As an outsider looking in, it is my impression that they bend their customers over, and give them a little "How ya doin" poke every so often.
When I think of Cryptic, I will always think of the "Get 5 friends to play, and you will get this exclusive ship"....only to have the ship in their store in no time.
I wonder how many STO subscribers took it on the chin, and actually purchased 5 new accounts to get the item? Being Trekkies, I bet they snared more than a couple of them.
Had they kept the ship exclusive, it wouldnt of been so bad. To turn right around, and offer it for like 5 bucks was like a huge FU to those they suckered out of their money.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
Just like SOE, I'll never try a Cryptic product ever again. I don't care if CO and STO becomes the next WoW in some miraculous fashion. Their actions, in practice and ethics, are utter cr*p.
As far as the F2P conversion in regards to STO, they're already more than halfway there. The greedy bast@rds have the gall to charge a monthly subscription fee AND have an item shop (C-Store). They have the gall to put content into the C-Store when it all should be free, part of the patching, considering how terribly, incompetently incomplete STO is. The game is terrible, but da*n, does Cryptic really like lining the C-Store up.
Ethics... well, then there's the Galaxy-X debacle and douchebaggery that Cryptic did before that ship finally went into the C-Store.
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
Following the success of Turbine’s free-to-play experiment with Dungeons & Dragons Online and Lord of The Rings Online, Cryptic Studios announced that it was switching Champions Online over to the freemium business model. Cryptic CEO Jack Emmert told Eurogamer that the company would be willing to switch Star Trek Online over to the model as well, depending on Champions’ success.
"I'm sure people are wondering whether we'll do it with Star Trek and the question is really how well it does for Champions," said Emmert. "We're not sold one way or the other with Star Trek yet. If people want Star Trek to go free-to-play then get in and play Champions and help make it a great success, because that would send a strong message. If we did Turbine's level of success that would certainly merit the discussion!"
"We hope for a success as big as DDO. That would be great - but I wouldn't say we're betting on it,” Emmert explained. "In other words, I'm not going to say we'll do or die if we don't get five times our revenue or whatever the stats were that Turbine did. We're just hoping to open it up and increase the fanbase, and we'll just wait and see - I'd love it if we got their results, but hey, if that doesn't happen it doesn't happen."
The free-to-play model has been around for a while, mostly in Asian-based MMOs and online titles, but Turbine’s success has helped to open the floodgates for the model in the West.
Basically he's saying we've got two crap games and we're pleading with you to support them . I love the line about help us make CO a successful F2P game so we can do the same crap to STO. All I have to say is wow , this guy has a set of balls on him , stating this crap publically.
STO going F2P will just be another cash grab to get more hard core ST fans into the game. They'll end up spending just as much or more in the C-Store than what a montly sub would have cost. The ones that don't RP will spend a lot upfront then quit because there is nothing to do.
STO going F2P will just be another cash grab to get more hard core ST fans into the game. They'll end up spending just as much or more in the C-Store than what a montly sub would have cost. The ones that don't RP will spend a lot upfront then quit because there is nothing to do.
+1
STO is less than 3 months from being on the market a full year at this point in time and it still hasn't enough content to warrent a subscription past the free month so how the hell do Cryptic expect to hold onto F2P customers to get them to even hit the C-store?
This is just a last ditch effort from Craptic to milk the final few quid from Trek fans before moving on to do the same all over again with their next rushed out the door MMO.
STO going F2P will just be another cash grab to get more hard core ST fans into the game. They'll end up spending just as much or more in the C-Store than what a montly sub would have cost. The ones that don't RP will spend a lot upfront then quit because there is nothing to do.
+1
STO is less than 3 months from being on the market a full year at this point in time and it still hasn't enough content to warrent a subscription past the free month so how the hell do Cryptic expect to hold onto F2P customers to get them to even hit the C-store?
This is just a last ditch effort from Craptic to milk the final few quid from Trek fans before moving on to do the same all over again with their next rushed out the door MMO.
Agree.
I have a hard time in using Cryptic and/or STO/CO and "success" in the same sentence.
The one thing I don't understand is why SOE didn't try to go f2p with Vanguard? Do they simply feel it isn't worth the effort? Not applicable in that game?
Seems to me that would have been the perfect game for them to try out a f2p transition with. Guess they felt differently for whatever reason.
F2P Vanguard would be great.
Why rather going with EQ2?
1) Vanguard has pretty much non existent development team.
2) Vanguard has no player base you could built upon.
3) Vanguard already has bad reputation.
Some more reasons could be found, all in all EQ2 seems better bet to me.
Not to mention SOE has always viewed Vanguard as direct competition to EQ2, thus point #1 above.
"Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan
Had they kept the ship exclusive, it wouldnt of been so bad. To turn right around, and offer it for like 5 bucks was like a huge FU to those they suckered out of their money.
I believe the C-store cost was $20, but your point is valid; $20 dollars in the store versus the $200+ dollars a lot of people spent to get the refer a friend version was definately a giant up yours from Cryptic.
"Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan
what do i have to download to make cryptic go bankrupt and stop making half finished games?
Absolutely nothing; that seems to be the course they set for themselves.
"Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan
As a Lifer I think that when STO goes F2P that would be the best thing that Cryptic ever did. Then they can justify the C-store, the lack of content and I can finaly leave the game with out feeling like I am being taken advantage of everytime I log in to do my dailies and then log off.
As a Lifer I think that when STO goes F2P that would be the best thing that Cryptic ever did. Then they can justify the C-store, the lack of content and I can finaly leave the game with out feeling like I am being taken advantage of everytime I log in to do my dailies and then log off.
You have my deepest sympathies. I bought a life time subscription too, but after having it for about 3 weeks, I started to see all the red lights and managed to get my subscription fee back.
I can tell you that I'm going to be a lot more wary with games that offer life time subscriptions in the future.
As a Lifer I think that when STO goes F2P that would be the best thing that Cryptic ever did. Then they can justify the C-store, the lack of content and I can finaly leave the game with out feeling like I am being taken advantage of everytime I log in to do my dailies and then log off.
You have my deepest sympathies. I bought a life time subscription too, but after having it for about 3 weeks, I started to see all the red lights and managed to get my subscription fee back.
I can tell you that I'm going to be a lot more wary with games that offer life time subscriptions in the future.
The sad thing was, until just fairly recently in the MMO timeline, lifetime subscriptions were decent deals. A few bad apples (Hellgate: London and Cryptic's last two games) aside, they're still reasonable deals as long as you take a few precautions.
"Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan
Well, I never thought of how poorly the game would end up. I played the Beta and Headstart and read the forums and Dev responses to critical short commings and I just took it for granted that Cryptic would fix and improve on the reported things, after all, they have a game that will sell on it's name only, but ... nothing changed. I felt pretty safe since I sprung for the Life Time for Lord of the Rings and am glad I did because that game was worth every penny I spent on it. But as many others stated before, never again will I even look at another Cryptic product.
Comments
If WoW = The Beatles
and WAR = Led Zeppelin
Then LotrO = Pink Floyd
Great. More F2P MMO .. more MMO to dabble in aside from my main one (which i sub).
What you just describe is called boxed "expansion" in p2p games which you must purchase from stores to lift the level cap, opening new quests/areas/storylines, and introduce new gears/items.
Who says everyone paying the same sub fee is equal in p2p?? Those who don't own the latest expansions certainly aren't.
Get a gripe with reality, dude.
The only Cryptic title we ever bought was CoH at launch....me and the wife both got a copy.
In the yrs since we didnt get CO, and STO....so I suppose I really cant comment from current experience with them.
As an outsider looking in, it is my impression that they bend their customers over, and give them a little "How ya doin" poke every so often.
When I think of Cryptic, I will always think of the "Get 5 friends to play, and you will get this exclusive ship"....only to have the ship in their store in no time.
I wonder how many STO subscribers took it on the chin, and actually purchased 5 new accounts to get the item? Being Trekkies, I bet they snared more than a couple of them.
Had they kept the ship exclusive, it wouldnt of been so bad. To turn right around, and offer it for like 5 bucks was like a huge FU to those they suckered out of their money.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
Just like SOE, I'll never try a Cryptic product ever again. I don't care if CO and STO becomes the next WoW in some miraculous fashion. Their actions, in practice and ethics, are utter cr*p.
As far as the F2P conversion in regards to STO, they're already more than halfway there. The greedy bast@rds have the gall to charge a monthly subscription fee AND have an item shop (C-Store). They have the gall to put content into the C-Store when it all should be free, part of the patching, considering how terribly, incompetently incomplete STO is. The game is terrible, but da*n, does Cryptic really like lining the C-Store up.
Ethics... well, then there's the Galaxy-X debacle and douchebaggery that Cryptic did before that ship finally went into the C-Store.
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
Star Trek Online Could Be Cryptic's Next Free-To-Play Title
November 08, 2010 | By: IndustryGamers
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Following the success of Turbine’s free-to-play experiment with Dungeons & Dragons Online and Lord of The Rings Online, Cryptic Studios announced that it was switching Champions Online over to the freemium business model. Cryptic CEO Jack Emmert told Eurogamer that the company would be willing to switch Star Trek Online over to the model as well, depending on Champions’ success.
"I'm sure people are wondering whether we'll do it with Star Trek and the question is really how well it does for Champions," said Emmert. "We're not sold one way or the other with Star Trek yet. If people want Star Trek to go free-to-play then get in and play Champions and help make it a great success, because that would send a strong message. If we did Turbine's level of success that would certainly merit the discussion!"
"We hope for a success as big as DDO. That would be great - but I wouldn't say we're betting on it,” Emmert explained. "In other words, I'm not going to say we'll do or die if we don't get five times our revenue or whatever the stats were that Turbine did. We're just hoping to open it up and increase the fanbase, and we'll just wait and see - I'd love it if we got their results, but hey, if that doesn't happen it doesn't happen."
The free-to-play model has been around for a while, mostly in Asian-based MMOs and online titles, but Turbine’s success has helped to open the floodgates for the model in the West.
Read more at IndustryGamers
http://www.gamedaily.com/articles/news/star-trek-online-could-be-cryptics-next-freetoplay-title/
Basically he's saying we've got two crap games and we're pleading with you to support them . I love the line about help us make CO a successful F2P game so we can do the same crap to STO. All I have to say is wow , this guy has a set of balls on him , stating this crap publically.
what do i have to download to make cryptic go bankrupt and stop making half finished games?
IF THE ONLY DEFENCE FOR CRITICISM OF A GAME IS CALLING SOMEONE A TROLL OR HATER, THAT SAYS A LOT ABOUT THE QUALITY OF THE GAME
STO going F2P will just be another cash grab to get more hard core ST fans into the game. They'll end up spending just as much or more in the C-Store than what a montly sub would have cost. The ones that don't RP will spend a lot upfront then quit because there is nothing to do.
+1
STO is less than 3 months from being on the market a full year at this point in time and it still hasn't enough content to warrent a subscription past the free month so how the hell do Cryptic expect to hold onto F2P customers to get them to even hit the C-store?
This is just a last ditch effort from Craptic to milk the final few quid from Trek fans before moving on to do the same all over again with their next rushed out the door MMO.
Agree.
I have a hard time in using Cryptic and/or STO/CO and "success" in the same sentence.
Just don't see it working out.
Not to mention SOE has always viewed Vanguard as direct competition to EQ2, thus point #1 above.
"Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan
I believe the C-store cost was $20, but your point is valid; $20 dollars in the store versus the $200+ dollars a lot of people spent to get the refer a friend version was definately a giant up yours from Cryptic.
"Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan
Absolutely nothing; that seems to be the course they set for themselves.
"Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan
As a Lifer I think that when STO goes F2P that would be the best thing that Cryptic ever did. Then they can justify the C-store, the lack of content and I can finaly leave the game with out feeling like I am being taken advantage of everytime I log in to do my dailies and then log off.
You have my deepest sympathies. I bought a life time subscription too, but after having it for about 3 weeks, I started to see all the red lights and managed to get my subscription fee back.
I can tell you that I'm going to be a lot more wary with games that offer life time subscriptions in the future.
The sad thing was, until just fairly recently in the MMO timeline, lifetime subscriptions were decent deals. A few bad apples (Hellgate: London and Cryptic's last two games) aside, they're still reasonable deals as long as you take a few precautions.
"Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan
Well if the quality of their Games was equal to Turbine's I imaging they could get a piece of that pie...
But they're not...
Well, I never thought of how poorly the game would end up. I played the Beta and Headstart and read the forums and Dev responses to critical short commings and I just took it for granted that Cryptic would fix and improve on the reported things, after all, they have a game that will sell on it's name only, but ... nothing changed. I felt pretty safe since I sprung for the Life Time for Lord of the Rings and am glad I did because that game was worth every penny I spent on it. But as many others stated before, never again will I even look at another Cryptic product.
My main issue with StO wasn´t the 15$ sub it was the fact that it´s a pretty bad and shallow game.
All statements I make is from my point of view unless stated otherwise.