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The next big MMO will...

MrVicchioMrVicchio Member Posts: 598
in The Pub at MMORPG.COM

Will do one thing, it will change the genre.  I know, profound huh?  But how do you do that?  EQ did it by being "3D", DAoC Was the first to bring meaningful PVP, AO to combine EQ and DAoC into a SciFi world... 

Then Wow came and brought all those pieces together and did it RIGHT.  Since then, many have come to try and emulate WoW but none really changed anything.  They either tried to be WoW (WAR) or they tried gimmicks like Conan to get people interested, but to no avail.   EVE would be the best example of a game changer, but it was niche market, not everyone is into time based learning and puttering around space for hours on end. 

 

So what CAN change?  How about some ideas that bring NEW to the GAME, not "Make it a Fantasy SCI FI!!" that's not change, it's just setting.

 

1.  Separate PVP and PVE.  

 

That's right, when you, the Dev decide to go tinker, you need to make PVE and PVP completely different animals.  If that means all PVP happens "instanced", so be it.  Too many changes to games that are aimed at PVP or PVE radically impact the others.   How many times over the years has WoW changed a skill, an ability (will of the forsaken anyone) because in PVP it was "too much" yet in PVE it was golden?  Or vice versa.  The game that separates the two will "change the game".

 

2.   Design meaningful content for smaller groups.  

As gamers age, and yes, we do that ya know?  We settle down, we get married, we haven't the time we did before to game..  But we are still paying customers.  My wife and I love to do things "together", but so little content really works "together".  You can only level up so many alts..  AO tried this with random difficulty alterable missions, but those were repetitive and dull.  Try running missions in CoH with just two or three people!  

I'm not saying make the rewards the same, but giving a nod to smaller groups with some fun content would be a "Game Changer".

 

3.  PVP that's more then GEAR.  

 

Anyone here recall DAoC back in it's glory days?  You didn't raid those damn dirty Hibs because you would get gear, you did it cause they were the ENEMY.  Albion's honor was at stake.  Sadly, look at the state of PVP in games these days.  WoW?  Gear grindage.  WAR?  HA!  It's keep flipping for gear rolls.  BORE ME TO DEATH.  A three way battle that changes the world, or better, say the PVP portion, would be aces.  Where gear isn't a reward for taking an empty keep, where the fun is in defending AND attacking.  That would "change the game".

 

Those are three ways I can think of, what say you?

Always change your signature.

Comments

  • SgtEchoSgtEcho Member Posts: 139

    Originally posted by MrVicchio

    Will do one thing, it will change the genre.  I know, profound huh?  But how do you do that?  EQ did it by being "3D", DAoC Was the first to bring meaningful PVP, AO to combine EQ and DAoC into a SciFi world... 

    Then Wow came and brought all those pieces together and did it RIGHT.  Since then, many have come to try and emulate WoW but none really changed anything.  They either tried to be WoW (WAR) or they tried gimmicks like Conan to get people interested, but to no avail.   EVE would be the best example of a game changer, but it was niche market, not everyone is into time based learning and puttering around space for hours on end. 

     

    So what CAN change?  How about some ideas that bring NEW to the GAME, not "Make it a Fantasy SCI FI!!" that's not change, it's just setting.

     

    1.  Separate PVP and PVE.  

     

    That's right, when you, the Dev decide to go tinker, you need to make PVE and PVP completely different animals.  If that means all PVP happens "instanced", so be it.  Too many changes to games that are aimed at PVP or PVE radically impact the others.   How many times over the years has WoW changed a skill, an ability (will of the forsaken anyone) because in PVP it was "too much" yet in PVE it was golden?  Or vice versa.  The game that separates the two will "change the game".

     

    2.   Design meaningful content for smaller groups.  

    As gamers age, and yes, we do that ya know?  We settle down, we get married, we haven't the time we did before to game..  But we are still paying customers.  My wife and I love to do things "together", but so little content really works "together".  You can only level up so many alts..  AO tried this with random difficulty alterable missions, but those were repetitive and dull.  Try running missions in CoH with just two or three people!  

    I'm not saying make the rewards the same, but giving a nod to smaller groups with some fun content would be a "Game Changer".

     

    3.  PVP that's more then GEAR.  

     

    Anyone here recall DAoC back in it's glory days?  You didn't raid those damn dirty Hibs because you would get gear, you did it cause they were the ENEMY.  Albion's honor was at stake.  Sadly, look at the state of PVP in games these days.  WoW?  Gear grindage.  WAR?  HA!  It's keep flipping for gear rolls.  BORE ME TO DEATH.  A three way battle that changes the world, or better, say the PVP portion, would be aces.  Where gear isn't a reward for taking an empty keep, where the fun is in defending AND attacking.  That would "change the game".

     

    Those are three ways I can think of, what say you?

    Cool. But no.

  • ShqipShqip Member Posts: 61

    LotRO has separate PvE and PvP 

    image

  • theartisttheartist Member Posts: 553

    Originally posted by SgtEcho

    Originally posted by MrVicchio

    Will do one thing, it will change the genre.  I know, profound huh?  But how do you do that?  EQ did it by being "3D", DAoC Was the first to bring meaningful PVP, AO to combine EQ and DAoC into a SciFi world... 

    Then Wow came and brought all those pieces together and did it RIGHT.  Since then, many have come to try and emulate WoW but none really changed anything.  They either tried to be WoW (WAR) or they tried gimmicks like Conan to get people interested, but to no avail.   EVE would be the best example of a game changer, but it was niche market, not everyone is into time based learning and puttering around space for hours on end. 

     

    So what CAN change?  How about some ideas that bring NEW to the GAME, not "Make it a Fantasy SCI FI!!" that's not change, it's just setting.

     

    1.  Separate PVP and PVE.  

     

    That's right, when you, the Dev decide to go tinker, you need to make PVE and PVP completely different animals.  If that means all PVP happens "instanced", so be it.  Too many changes to games that are aimed at PVP or PVE radically impact the others.   How many times over the years has WoW changed a skill, an ability (will of the forsaken anyone) because in PVP it was "too much" yet in PVE it was golden?  Or vice versa.  The game that separates the two will "change the game".

     

    2.   Design meaningful content for smaller groups.  

    As gamers age, and yes, we do that ya know?  We settle down, we get married, we haven't the time we did before to game..  But we are still paying customers.  My wife and I love to do things "together", but so little content really works "together".  You can only level up so many alts..  AO tried this with random difficulty alterable missions, but those were repetitive and dull.  Try running missions in CoH with just two or three people!  

    I'm not saying make the rewards the same, but giving a nod to smaller groups with some fun content would be a "Game Changer".

     

    3.  PVP that's more then GEAR.  

     

    Anyone here recall DAoC back in it's glory days?  You didn't raid those damn dirty Hibs because you would get gear, you did it cause they were the ENEMY.  Albion's honor was at stake.  Sadly, look at the state of PVP in games these days.  WoW?  Gear grindage.  WAR?  HA!  It's keep flipping for gear rolls.  BORE ME TO DEATH.  A three way battle that changes the world, or better, say the PVP portion, would be aces.  Where gear isn't a reward for taking an empty keep, where the fun is in defending AND attacking.  That would "change the game".

     

    Those are three ways I can think of, what say you?

    Cool. But no.

    I concur.

    Console games like Assassin's Creed Brotherhood and BRINK are blending pve and pvp content to make things more challenging. MMORPG players are just going to have to accept that to move on the same adaption will have to happen.

  • Rockgod99Rockgod99 Member Posts: 4,640

    The Halo MMO.

    That's right I checked my all knowing crystal ball and it says 20 million crazy Ex-Halo fanbois are going to play Halo MMO created by Blizzard/Bungie.

    Ill repost this biznitch in 3-4 years when im right lol...

    image

    Playing: Rift, LotRO
    Waiting on: GW2, BP

  • theartisttheartist Member Posts: 553

    Originally posted by Rockgod99

    The Halo MMO.

    That's right I checked my all knowing crystal ball and it say 20 million crazy Ex-H2 fanbois playing Halo MMO created by Blizzard/Bungie.

    Ill repost this biznitch in 3-4 years when im right lol...

    If it'd get another HALO game on the PC.. Oh wait Bungie's out.

  • VirusDancerVirusDancer Member UncommonPosts: 3,649

    Originally posted by MrVicchio

    1.  Separate PVP and PVE.  

     Do not separate.  If it is a class based game, then work along a simple stat/ability formula to balance classes overall.  If it is not class based, but role based - do the same.  If there are no classes, but templates exist, then again the same.  Hey, guess what - if there are just skills/abilities - tada!   Currently, you usually see both PvP and PvE broken because they have been separated and devs attempt to balance back and forth.  It does not work.

    2.   Design meaningful content for smaller groups.  

     We are talking MMOs - not Co-Op games.  They need to design meaningful content for...for...wait for it...for... massive groups.

    3.  PVP that's more then GEAR.  

    Much like PvE should be more than a GEAR CHECK (cough, cough); yes, PvP needs to be more than a GEAR CHECK.

    I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?

    Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%

  • Garvon3Garvon3 Member CommonPosts: 2,898

    Originally posted by MrVicchio

    Will do one thing, it will change the genre.  I know, profound huh?  But how do you do that?  EQ did it by being "3D", DAoC Was the first to bring meaningful PVP, AO to combine EQ and DAoC into a SciFi world... 

    Then Wow came and brought all those pieces together and did it RIGHT.  ?

    Stopped reading there, gave in, read ahead a little bit, then gave up again. 

     

    If you think PvP and PvE can't work together then you haven't played a well designed MMO and you certainly haven't played DAoC. 

    And if you think WoW brought all the elements of EQ and DAoC together, you clearly didn't play them... If by "did it right" you mean, gutted 90% of the features and released a primitive EQ clone with NONE of the PvP elements of DAoC? 

  • Rockgod99Rockgod99 Member Posts: 4,640

    Originally posted by theartist

    Originally posted by Rockgod99

    The Halo MMO.

    That's right I checked my all knowing crystal ball and it say 20 million crazy Ex-H2 fanbois playing Halo MMO created by Blizzard/Bungie.

    Ill repost this biznitch in 3-4 years when im right lol...

    If it'd get another HALO game on the PC.. Oh wait Bungie's out.

    LOL your right haha damn Crystal ball must be broke.

    Yeah my bad that one was made by Cryptic....

    Ahh! Here it is!

    *Gives a shake*

    ... Starcraft MMO...

    image

    Playing: Rift, LotRO
    Waiting on: GW2, BP

  • theartisttheartist Member Posts: 553

    Originally posted by Rockgod99

    Originally posted by theartist

    Originally posted by Rockgod99

    The Halo MMO.

    That's right I checked my all knowing crystal ball and it say 20 million crazy Ex-H2 fanbois playing Halo MMO created by Blizzard/Bungie.

    Ill repost this biznitch in 3-4 years when im right lol...

    If it'd get another HALO game on the PC.. Oh wait Bungie's out.

    LOL your right haha damn Crystal ball must be broke.

    Yeah my bad that one was made by Cryptic....

    Ahh! Here it is!

    *Gives a shake*

    ... Starcraft MMO...

    A combined effort of Cryptic and Obsidian hired by Microsoft to SAVE the HALO brand!

    I'd...

    Let you have this victory. LoL I don't think I'd touch the thing.

  • AzzkickaAzzkicka Member Posts: 157

    Seperate PVP and PVE completely? lol... i wont be playing any games you like then.  Horrible idea.

  • VirusDancerVirusDancer Member UncommonPosts: 3,649

    It is funny if you stop to think about it.  I was thinking about the three points the OP brings up and how they apply to WoW.  Following up on my previous post:

    WoW balancing has been a clustercoochiecoo in regard to how they have looked at PvP and PvE separately.  Attempt to balance PvP, screw up PvE some.  Try to balance PvE, screw up PvP some.  It is not a case that you need to separate them - you need to look at both before breaking out the buffwand or nerfhammer.

    WoW has gone from 40 man raids, large outdoor raids, etc... to 5 man Heroics, 2-3-5 man Arenas, and 10 man Raids.

    WoW is a gear check.  Whether you are talking PvE or PvP, it is a gear check for the vast majority of the content.  When you get into Arenas, you will get into comps and skill... but for everything else, the only thing preventing you from accomplishing your goals is GEAR.

    So to an extent, it kind of feels like the OP is talking about things that some people will believe Blizzard has done well or has done poorly.  To that same extent, you see a difference of opinions on what "The next big MMO will..."

    I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?

    Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%

  • MrVicchioMrVicchio Member Posts: 598

    Originally posted by Garvon3

    Originally posted by MrVicchio

    Will do one thing, it will change the genre.  I know, profound huh?  But how do you do that?  EQ did it by being "3D", DAoC Was the first to bring meaningful PVP, AO to combine EQ and DAoC into a SciFi world... 

    Then Wow came and brought all those pieces together and did it RIGHT.  ?

    Stopped reading there, gave in, read ahead a little bit, then gave up again. 

     

    If you think PvP and PvE can't work together then you haven't played a well designed MMO and you certainly haven't played DAoC. 

    And if you think WoW brought all the elements of EQ and DAoC together, you clearly didn't play them... If by "did it right" you mean, gutted 90% of the features and released a primitive EQ clone with NONE of the PvP elements of DAoC? 

    Shame you stopped reading, cause you missed the point.  I was aiming that at the DEV'S.  I.E. make changes to PVP, that don't impact PVE.  For example, let's say your DPS class has a great CC for PVE, but that wouldn't work in PVP.  When you enter the PVP area, it's not available to you.

     

    What a concept.

    Always change your signature.

  • MrVicchioMrVicchio Member Posts: 598

    Originally posted by Azzkicka

    Seperate PVP and PVE completely? lol... i wont be playing any games you like then.  Horrible idea.

    You missed that I was refering to what the dev's do, not the GAME itself.  

    Always change your signature.

  • FoomerangFoomerang Member UncommonPosts: 5,628

    The next big mmo will...


    ....most likely not interest me.

    Good thing this is a niche market ;)

  • CastillleCastillle Member UncommonPosts: 2,679

    I thoguht by seperating pvp and pve meant that if a certain power is used in pvp,itll have a different more pvp balanced effect and if you used it in pve, itd have a different more pve balanced effect....

    That way you wont have to worry about pve while balancing pvp and vice versa

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