It is because people tend to be pompus jerks in real life and sense they don't know anyone in the game really they can be as big of jerks as they want and not feel guilty, even bigger jerks than they are in real life.
Admitedly I have been a jerk to people on many occasions while playing MMOs; but, if you were looking at it from my perspective, they deserved it. When someone in a game wants to be a prick, I don't want to be the nice guy anymore; nope, I choose to be the bigger A-Hole and make them cry over a video game that I care nothing about; only the principle of the situation.
To answer your question about why people are jerks in MMOs, like many have already stated; it's because they feel safe hiding behind thousands of miles of wiring and no physical accountability. People are just as bad in the real world; try driving in 5 O'Clock traffic in Houston everyday, you'll see people everyday you just want to shoot in the face to make the world a better place for all.
Now with my case, it has nothing to do with the lack of accountability. Matter of fact I have run into people a few times in the physical world who thought they were protected by their magic bubble. Funny how quickly a person's attitude changes when confronted by a two time war veteran.
I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
Honestly though, with anonymity, why not do what you like, no real consequences?
Isn't it sad that behavior can be so severely modified by lack of accountability?
LOL you know, people were a lot nicer back in UO when running your mouth got you killed, looted, and destitute.
Perhaps fear really is the only base motivation that prevents us all from becoming animal!
If you ask yourself 'why don't I do X' ...well, it is likely that you are afraid of Consequence Y
Fear is not the only and neither the biggest base motivation that prevents us from becoming animals. The dependency on other human beings is. We are jerks when we are young. As we mature we learn how to socialize, ethics and pretty much become civilized because we start to understand that without the help of others we cannot go anywhere. So we start to learn how to create connections.
The same with mmos. I have seen a lot of jerks in wow and that's because no one needs anyones help. Peoples just go around doing the quests alone and sometimes grouping is actually a waste of time. You see this behaviour especially after the launch of lfd tool. No one cares to create a good name for their char, after all they're never gonna play with that team anyway. The only thing that forces players on that game to socialize and create guilds are the raids and I really hope a LFR tool never gets released.
In my experience the true trolls in games typically aren't the rude people you're talking about. The trolls just sit in world chats and are easy to distinguish because they keep retrying the same baiting tactics. Trolls work well on forums cause they can post once and get a bunch of reactions because their post stays there for hours or even days. Doesn't really work in games.
But there are indeed jerks in games. Those people usually seem like mindless ravenous beasts in the way they treat people. My ultimate conclusion is that the game itself has placed them in that mindset by cleverly draging them into a literally endless grind without them recognizing they are indeed grinding. They honestly believe that if everyone else could just "shape up" and be as productive as them, they would be able to get everything they think they need fast enough so that they can finally be "on top." They are merely completionists who havn't yet realized one of the fundamental difference between mmos and single player games: you not only CAN'T be on top (at least for long, and only by half killing yourself to get there) but you're not supposed to try to be.
I've seen myself starting to act this way when i've played too much, and the cure is just to simply stop playing for a while. Go outside and get some fresh air, or even just watch tv instead. Hell, playing a single player game till you fully complete it to get that much craved completionist feeling even works. I currently suggest Fable III
So many people enjoy making others suffer, in MMOs, in forums, in real life. Everywhere. The question why has been discussed by thinkers of many millenia, and I don't think I am any wiser.
My general assumption tho is, it is the unhappy people who in turn want to make others unhappy. A person in peace with himself would not have the drive to harass others.
Just my 5ct.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
You seldom see it in games with twenty and thirty-somethings because most of them are secure with themselves.
Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now working in Network Security. I don't Forum PVP. If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident. When I don't understand, I ask. Such is not intended as criticism.
I think a lot of anger in MMO's have to do with the fact that you don't see the real person behind a character. If I spend hours and hours learning my class it's quite annoying if some random guy comes a long who doesn't know shit about his char. In RL I would think, ah well he's doing his best and I would feel sorry for him when I scold him. In MMO's it's just a character screwing up my game and making it less enjoyable for me.
It's something completely different when you know someone from your guild or as RL friends. You probably partied with them before and know someone a bit. Also you know someones strength and weaknesses and maybe even saw him feeling bad about someone bitching at him. That makes him a human being and someone you should be carefull to hurt.
Also there's the fact that people expect others to be assholes, so they tend to be it themselves. For example, this pug doesn't go that well and others always leave when that happens. So I might as well leave myself.
You seldom see it in games with twenty and thirty-somethings because most of them are secure with themselves.
I would have though that as a person got older these sort of thoughts and actions would become less prevelant, but they don't seem to change in gaming communities.
Take a look around and find some of those really sarcastic and hatefilled posts and click on the posters name and see their posted age and you'll find many older people right along with the teenagers and early twenty-somethings.
I think the lack of consequence and accountability is really the only cause of the phenomenon. I'm of the mind that most of the time the people that make those comments would make the same comments to people face to face, because the conseqences could be much more severe, such as a punch in the face.
Simple. Most people have little self control. They can act right when people hold them accountable, but as soon as that accountability is gone they are their true selves.
I wish I knew who said this; "You can find the true character of a person by how they treat their waiter/cashier." Or something like that. Most people treat waiters and cashiers like shit.
Honestly though, with anonymity, why not do what you like, no real consequences?
Isn't it sad that behavior can be so severely modified by lack of accountability?
LOL you know, people were a lot nicer back in UO when running your mouth got you killed, looted, and destitute.
Perhaps fear really is the only base motivation that prevents us all from becoming animal!
If you ask yourself 'why don't I do X' ...well, it is likely that you are afraid of Consequence Y
Yeah i really miss games where being an asshole could get you in trouble. If someone made a game like that today I would be all over it!
Honestly, that is what I miss most about early UO. You could do almost anything you wanted to, assuming you were willing to live with the consequences....
Consequences....a word that I fear most mmo developers and players are not familiar with anymore.
Everyone whats to declare how UBER they are, in their awesome gear, running there mouth like they would actually be throwing bottles in a bar fight and not hiding under the table.....just don't tell them how hollow all that really is because the only risk they took during their entire ascent to glory was avoiding carpal tunnel from smashing the same 6 keys endlessly while simultaneously watching TV.
Frank 'Spankybus' Mignone www.spankybus.com -3d Artist & Compositor -Writer -Professional Amature
I find that many people aren't jerks if you approach them right, or are just being jerks for a little fun and if you don't act like a newb when they do it they treat you just fine after it. What I see is a lot of people really go out and look for trouble, and they get what the deserve. Don't want to be bothered, don't make yourself a target.
Sent me an email if you want me to mail you some pizza rolls.
It's the age old question, no not the chicken and the egg, why do people insit on being jerks in MMOs ? We all have encountered those who just want to be rude. To me I don't get offended or upset, I just blocked them and move on. But why do you think people want to be rude to you in a game? Because they can, most likely, but are there any other reasons that you can think of? Community is the biggest factor in determining the MMO I will play unless I really really enjoy the MMO I will put up with it. I am really liking my time in Darkfall but the community is bad (but if you join a clan it is the other way around...very nice and helpful). Do 'mean' players piss you off or do you not care?
Mean players annoy the crap out of me. I really wish they had 18+ games to help mimimize "some" of this. Yeah, I know, there's still ahole 18+ ppl out there.. that's why I wrote, "some".
I agree with what you said, as the question applies to being jerks *anywhere* that people can get away with it - because they can. And/or, because they are immature, anti-social (then why play an MMO right?), and other obvious reasons.
Even a game review I read here spoke about the author, pk-ing afk players, pretty much because he could, and he wanted some revenge for being pk'ed as well (which was his excuse for this pathetic behavior, not mine). I was pretty let down to see a contributing reviewer here actually admitting they waited to make sure the player was afk, then attacked them with no fear of dying, etc. and did this mainly because "he could". I could probably kill someone in real life and get away with it too, but does that mean I should do it?. How pathetic is that? Is there even slang for that? I know about res-killing, ganking, and so on, but killing players that aren't even at their friggin pc's??? Jeezus.
Interesting points. What with IGNORE being pretty universal, aren't there consequences to being rude?
I really appreciated City of Heroes and EVE's ability to write notes about other players to yourself. Because frankly, I cant remember the 1000s of people I have teamed with. When I am joining a raid party in CoX and I see I've given someone a single star (out of 5) I can read why. "AFK thru half the raid" etc. are very helpful to keeping me from having an annoying time.
"Never met a pack of humans that were any different. Look at the idiots that get elected every couple of years. You really consider those guys more mature than us? The only difference between us and them is, when they gank some noobs and take their stuff, the noobs actually die." - Madimorga
because in real life they get snot kicked out them or something. behind game million miles away they can be nerd and a bully.
Righty-o. Makes ya wanna pull a Jay and Silent Bob on them.
Anonymity in general brings out the jerk in some people. Back in the day, before caller ID on phones, people would call random numbers and talk smack all the time.
because in real life they get snot kicked out them or something. behind game million miles away they can be nerd and a bully.
Righty-o. Makes ya wanna pull a Jay and Silent Bob on them.
Anonymity in general brings out the jerk in some people. Back in the day, before caller ID on phones, people would call random numbers and talk smack all the time.
Hence the 'outrage' when Blizz threatened to show real names....
I only meet people having fun or relaxing playing mmos.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
Comments
It is because people tend to be pompus jerks in real life and sense they don't know anyone in the game really they can be as big of jerks as they want and not feel guilty, even bigger jerks than they are in real life.
Dustin
Admitedly I have been a jerk to people on many occasions while playing MMOs; but, if you were looking at it from my perspective, they deserved it. When someone in a game wants to be a prick, I don't want to be the nice guy anymore; nope, I choose to be the bigger A-Hole and make them cry over a video game that I care nothing about; only the principle of the situation.
To answer your question about why people are jerks in MMOs, like many have already stated; it's because they feel safe hiding behind thousands of miles of wiring and no physical accountability. People are just as bad in the real world; try driving in 5 O'Clock traffic in Houston everyday, you'll see people everyday you just want to shoot in the face to make the world a better place for all.
Now with my case, it has nothing to do with the lack of accountability. Matter of fact I have run into people a few times in the physical world who thought they were protected by their magic bubble. Funny how quickly a person's attitude changes when confronted by a two time war veteran.
I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
lulz so true
Fear is not the only and neither the biggest base motivation that prevents us from becoming animals. The dependency on other human beings is. We are jerks when we are young. As we mature we learn how to socialize, ethics and pretty much become civilized because we start to understand that without the help of others we cannot go anywhere. So we start to learn how to create connections.
The same with mmos. I have seen a lot of jerks in wow and that's because no one needs anyones help. Peoples just go around doing the quests alone and sometimes grouping is actually a waste of time. You see this behaviour especially after the launch of lfd tool. No one cares to create a good name for their char, after all they're never gonna play with that team anyway. The only thing that forces players on that game to socialize and create guilds are the raids and I really hope a LFR tool never gets released.
Because they can - there's zero accountability.
If people acted the way they did online in real life, they would find themselves very quickly living as hermits.
That's what made that game awesome.
In my experience the true trolls in games typically aren't the rude people you're talking about. The trolls just sit in world chats and are easy to distinguish because they keep retrying the same baiting tactics. Trolls work well on forums cause they can post once and get a bunch of reactions because their post stays there for hours or even days. Doesn't really work in games.
But there are indeed jerks in games. Those people usually seem like mindless ravenous beasts in the way they treat people. My ultimate conclusion is that the game itself has placed them in that mindset by cleverly draging them into a literally endless grind without them recognizing they are indeed grinding. They honestly believe that if everyone else could just "shape up" and be as productive as them, they would be able to get everything they think they need fast enough so that they can finally be "on top." They are merely completionists who havn't yet realized one of the fundamental difference between mmos and single player games: you not only CAN'T be on top (at least for long, and only by half killing yourself to get there) but you're not supposed to try to be.
I've seen myself starting to act this way when i've played too much, and the cure is just to simply stop playing for a while. Go outside and get some fresh air, or even just watch tv instead. Hell, playing a single player game till you fully complete it to get that much craved completionist feeling even works. I currently suggest Fable III
In MMOs? What do you mean?
So many people enjoy making others suffer, in MMOs, in forums, in real life. Everywhere. The question why has been discussed by thinkers of many millenia, and I don't think I am any wiser.
My general assumption tho is, it is the unhappy people who in turn want to make others unhappy. A person in peace with himself would not have the drive to harass others.
Just my 5ct.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Alpha males fighting for position.
You seldom see it in games with twenty and thirty-somethings because most of them are secure with themselves.
I think a lot of anger in MMO's have to do with the fact that you don't see the real person behind a character. If I spend hours and hours learning my class it's quite annoying if some random guy comes a long who doesn't know shit about his char. In RL I would think, ah well he's doing his best and I would feel sorry for him when I scold him. In MMO's it's just a character screwing up my game and making it less enjoyable for me.
It's something completely different when you know someone from your guild or as RL friends. You probably partied with them before and know someone a bit. Also you know someones strength and weaknesses and maybe even saw him feeling bad about someone bitching at him. That makes him a human being and someone you should be carefull to hurt.
Also there's the fact that people expect others to be assholes, so they tend to be it themselves. For example, this pug doesn't go that well and others always leave when that happens. So I might as well leave myself.
This ^^
two words: zero accountability
I would have though that as a person got older these sort of thoughts and actions would become less prevelant, but they don't seem to change in gaming communities.
Take a look around and find some of those really sarcastic and hatefilled posts and click on the posters name and see their posted age and you'll find many older people right along with the teenagers and early twenty-somethings.
I think the lack of consequence and accountability is really the only cause of the phenomenon. I'm of the mind that most of the time the people that make those comments would make the same comments to people face to face, because the conseqences could be much more severe, such as a punch in the face.
Simple. Most people have little self control. They can act right when people hold them accountable, but as soon as that accountability is gone they are their true selves.
I wish I knew who said this; "You can find the true character of a person by how they treat their waiter/cashier." Or something like that. Most people treat waiters and cashiers like shit.
Yeah i really miss games where being an asshole could get you in trouble. If someone made a game like that today I would be all over it!
Honestly, that is what I miss most about early UO. You could do almost anything you wanted to, assuming you were willing to live with the consequences....
Consequences....a word that I fear most mmo developers and players are not familiar with anymore.
Everyone whats to declare how UBER they are, in their awesome gear, running there mouth like they would actually be throwing bottles in a bar fight and not hiding under the table.....just don't tell them how hollow all that really is because the only risk they took during their entire ascent to glory was avoiding carpal tunnel from smashing the same 6 keys endlessly while simultaneously watching TV.
Frank 'Spankybus' Mignone
www.spankybus.com
-3d Artist & Compositor
-Writer
-Professional Amature
I find that many people aren't jerks if you approach them right, or are just being jerks for a little fun and if you don't act like a newb when they do it they treat you just fine after it. What I see is a lot of people really go out and look for trouble, and they get what the deserve. Don't want to be bothered, don't make yourself a target.
Sent me an email if you want me to mail you some pizza rolls.
Mean players annoy the crap out of me. I really wish they had 18+ games to help mimimize "some" of this. Yeah, I know, there's still ahole 18+ ppl out there.. that's why I wrote, "some".
I agree with what you said, as the question applies to being jerks *anywhere* that people can get away with it - because they can. And/or, because they are immature, anti-social (then why play an MMO right?), and other obvious reasons.
Even a game review I read here spoke about the author, pk-ing afk players, pretty much because he could, and he wanted some revenge for being pk'ed as well (which was his excuse for this pathetic behavior, not mine). I was pretty let down to see a contributing reviewer here actually admitting they waited to make sure the player was afk, then attacked them with no fear of dying, etc. and did this mainly because "he could". I could probably kill someone in real life and get away with it too, but does that mean I should do it?. How pathetic is that? Is there even slang for that? I know about res-killing, ganking, and so on, but killing players that aren't even at their friggin pc's??? Jeezus.
Interesting points. What with IGNORE being pretty universal, aren't there consequences to being rude?
I really appreciated City of Heroes and EVE's ability to write notes about other players to yourself. Because frankly, I cant remember the 1000s of people I have teamed with. When I am joining a raid party in CoX and I see I've given someone a single star (out of 5) I can read why. "AFK thru half the raid" etc. are very helpful to keeping me from having an annoying time.
"Never met a pack of humans that were any different. Look at the idiots that get elected every couple of years. You really consider those guys more mature than us? The only difference between us and them is, when they gank some noobs and take their stuff, the noobs actually die." - Madimorga
Online is where peoples true nature come alive. The person they WANT To be in real life but can't.
There is no consequences , the only way to teach jerks is to hurt then emotionaly .
But sorry since online is turning into semi worst then real life , instead of a place for relaxations and debates and idea exchange .
Thats the consequences lately people have to face , sadly the jerks reactions are the only thing working since it causes emotional harm .
While being polite respectfull nice and friendly are always open to abuse .
So infact its not being jerks its that internet evolved and have less patience or tolerance for abusive behaviors .
Those who show it usually get the same back , its nowaday a eye for a eye .
Also it has to do with Real Life education , ethics morals and value , those things most parents dont teach there kids anymore .
The kids dont listen , ask them what morals value and ethics are ?
Sit down with your kids and ask them , you would be suprised how off the charts kids are these days .
They know the answer , but they dont understand what it means .
Righty-o. Makes ya wanna pull a Jay and Silent Bob on them.
Anonymity in general brings out the jerk in some people. Back in the day, before caller ID on phones, people would call random numbers and talk smack all the time.
Hence the 'outrage' when Blizz threatened to show real names....
Why do you insist on being a victim?
I only meet people having fun or relaxing playing mmos.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
Yep, John Gabriel's theory still holds today