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You Guys are Overthinking Everything
donjn
Member UncommonPosts: 816
I used to be a regular on these boards for a while. But more and more I stopped coming here. It is because every thread is the same: Sandbox this, sandbox that. Lots of anti-WoW thoughts, and how gaming has been dumbed down. The general tone of this board is almost always a downer.
You do not have to be a fanboy of one MMO at a time. Feel like playing a sandbox? Go play Saga of Ryxom or Ultima Online for a month. Want some good pvp? Go play Warhammer for a month. Bounce around. No one was really meant to stick with and support ONE GRAND MMO for all time.
Right now, I am playing the new WoW expansion and I am having a blast. Then I come to this place, and it is depressing.
You are chasing the perfect MMO just like chasing the perfect woman or perfect anything.
It does not exist.
Comments
The new expansion is only 3days old ... sure i can believe you have a blast .
Well I had the best hours playing tetris , doesn´t mean it will get old
Honestly ANTI - WoW this site , its farther from the truth , tons here play WoW .
And are more hyped up in selling it , then actually playing it .
Game experience of people are so low in the WoW area , they fall straight in the fanbase wow forums .
The average Q.Q er .
So please stop hyping up the product more , cause its like hyping up idiocy , this is again WotLK , again TBC , same story.
3 days doesn´t mean a thing when the endgame is about *BIG TRUMPET SOUND* raiding !! and gear collecting !!!
About the sandbox , people are tired cause there sandbox is being just that , full of sand once there isn´t enough people to play with , They need there new dose of drama , but its hard when sandbox chase away people cause of the grinding curve.
Well here you see tons of hype cause they hope GW2 is going to be there ultimate ideal dream .
No subscription fee , and a fuly fledge sandbox/themepark/dynamic MMO (people please wake up >.<)
That will allow them to do everything they ever set there dreams too .......
Now sorry maybe you should visit only official forums , cause i like these forums , atleast people can speak there truth .
Even if most dont even know what the truth is anymore :P .
while I agree with most of your post, the truth is there is nothing wrong with being critical of a game.
Unlike women, our voices have a say over the games that are produced. While I will forfeit that money speaks alot louder than criticism, II still have to say pity thou that judge the judgers.
The gaming industry should be striving for perfection.
We as individuals should be striving for perfection.
When the external world may not be able to exceed or meet or expectations or our desires, we as individuals have the ability to focus on those expectations internally.
Look its quite simple.
If we as consumers do not like a product, it is one thing to complain, but is it not more admirable to not only complain, but also create solutions?
Yes the sandbox, wow sux rhetoric is played out, but the overall sentiment should be that there is a demographic out there who is not being represented by the current state of games. If I was intrested in making money, should I not strive to incorporate this group into our market share?
Well, if one paid attention to these forums, you would start to see ideas and ways to do this in the future.
So while I agree with you to an extent, I have to say: "whatever"
To the caterpillar it is the end of the world, to the master, it is a butterfly.
If the trend towards F2P continues, you very well may see this amount of 'bouncing' between titles. At the moment there is less immersion in most games that you dont become personally 'invested' into your character. The only reason boiuncing betwen games isnt so prevalent is due to subscription costs.
Torrential: DAOC (Pendragon)
Awned: World of Warcraft (Lothar)
Torren: Warhammer Online (Praag)
I agree, people do overthink things, and tend get too hung up on what a game is labeled as, even the "massively" part of "mmo" constantly gets over analyzed lol. When something does not match up 100% as what it is labeled as, it automatically gets negative marks right from the start.
Proving what point that the average people are dumber and dumber .
Having a blast doesn´t mean you need to come to read about people having a blast !
You know what they are in game having a blast .
IF all of us care about having FUN you wouldn´t even be here waisting time !!
You would be following the quest hub that is almost none stop FED EX extreme !!
Chase the golden arrow !! godsake i had to take a break , no wonder people powerlevel in the game .
Atleast its a lot shorter then chasing the golden arrow .
I don't overthink everything, or do I? maybe I do I'm not sure. I think I need to go away and think about this for a little while.
If you feel insulted then you wear the boots , if you dont feel insulted then you ignore it .
Honestly this is what i meant with hyping the product without even actually playing it !!
Thank you for proving my point , you know what this game does , is overburn your sense that other game becomes rubbishe !!
Good for you to follow that mentality cause 3 days is good enough to base your experience on !!
How can you not be 1/3 of 81 in 3 days , you do the quest hub in hyal , be the time you end up in 4 hours you are 81 +
You do the quest hub in vashij its slower much slower , you still end up in 2 days at 82 !!
So have a blast cause really dont come crying in 1 month when , you find out that stuff is no fun and its the same story .
Seriously people are already farming heroics on my server , so you want to say they wont be burned out in 2 months ?
So same reason you quit at 70 , will apply again when you quit at 85 , nothing new nothing special .
Why cause there community stinks , and you are the first to falter when the going gets tough .
See how this thread became about WoW when WoW was only a part of my post?
My post is so much bigger than this.
But yes, in many ways, my point has been proven.
And I wonder, how mistakenly, this thread will eventually be moved into the WoW forum...
lol, wow.. (and I do not mean wow as in the game) seriously? Fastest thread to get trolled in a long time.
What's dumb is people trying to argue that WoW is a bad game. It is a great game, and always has been. The frustration is that there aren't any examples of another MMO done as well as WoW, but for a different audience.
Some would define different audience as "hard core". Meh. Having more meaningful defeat (ship destruction in EVE, dying in Vanguard, etc.) isn't more hard core, it's just a different mechanic that is more interesting to some players.
Personally, I always wished Vanguard was better at launch, and had as much attention put into it as WoW. Then you could have a fantasy themed MMO that is a little more...wide open immersive while WoW can be the "MMO for everyone".
I think the only criticism you can level at WoW is that it fundamentally altered the MMO industry, so you rarely see an MMO that has the polish of WoW, while catering to a different audience (for me Vanguard was the closest fantasy PvE MMO that could have filled that role, while EVE is doing a stellar job filling the open PVP role).
And proven what that best the people who argue about negativity .
Are the one saying hindsights to everything ?
Honestly the best people are the one who can judge themselfs and proof themself able to seperate games from reality .
They dont need to read about negative stuff , this site offers more then that .
But since you dont even read the articles that the wonderfull SITE offers .
The daily base articles about how others percieve it !!
You grasping about having a blast , that people should change cause of ANTI WOW sentiments .
Maybe if you go to wow main forums !! not server forums please (Cause usual battern about QUE (2 hours plus) )
Then you can have a wonderfull sense of oh ME TOO ME TOO having fun .
while some of us here do read all what MMORPG has to offer , and if i cannot give honest opnion about a game ,
I PAY I PLAY , I FREAKING RUN A GUILD , cause it offends mister senstive here , cause he rather do nothing but having fun
and is the first to run off , when games becomes no fun .
But then points to the blacksheeps , who are still trying hard to maintain a community , spirit d´corpse of the old days .
Well please be my guest , you know what start a guild , work for free and put up with the WOW Community .
Share you fun and devote your time to it , instead of moaning about it .
I want one really great game that has expansions and depth to last for a year or two for me to explore all the content. Reason why is several.
1. Lazy. Don't want to have to download and learn a new GUI, way to play, macro set up, every month.
2. My PC specs should last for at least 4 years. Gaming rigs are never cheap. Spend $500 on a gaming pc and get crap frame rates now and no frame rates 5 months from now. Spend $1200 and you will be set for 1 and a half years.
3. MMORPG's should not be a shallow affair like FPS that you play thru all content in 2 months. They should be a progressive long lasting experiance filled with all the good gaming moments we expect.
I am not asking for the perfect MMO. just one with enuff polish and depth that it it builds on and provides new concepts to the great games that have come before it. THe original WoW was deep, The expansions were to short and to easy. You shouldn't be able to complete themso quickly. The designers are just getting lazy with level design and need to go back and look at what EQ did to make progression more interesting.
Oh so you are stereo typing that all organisers must have NO LIFE .
You are stereo typing the types you have to ask for guides (online) the people who answers people questions in game .
Instead of sending them out onto the net .
Honestly WoW is burning up those people faster then they can be replaced !
You know cause of those people I AM CASUAL !! (but soon they going to scream i am hardcore again)
And honestly how can you not calculate , you have 81 1/3 in 3 days , thats even with the slowest speed .
You will be 85 by the mid januari , unless you dont play at all !!
You know its these attitude i love to read about who is running the gaming industry .
Those attitude that , YOUR FUN is everything that matters , that the game is dumb down for , in the end all people staying with MY FUN IS ALL THAT MATTERS , aren´t having fun at all .
Thats the truth of the game , when your FUN is no longer FUN , you move on !!
Leaving holes in guilds and groups , that do comprimise .
So here we have 2 people saying , point proven , when they are actually the cause the problems .
Lets face it.
Arguing about who is correct in reference to an opinion of a game is ridiculous.
This thread is in relation to:
Sandbox vs themepark
WOW vs Anti wow
People happy with their games vs those who remain unsatisfied
We, as a community do intricately dissasemble the philosphical elements of the genre wre are supposed to like.
I think what some people fail to realize is you have a split community here.
Those hwo are happy with their specific game and the extreme of that being the fanboy, and those who see potential for what the genre is capable of, the extreme of that being the very disatisfied "wow haters"
Wow haters, due in part to the bandwagon it created, are frustrated at the causality of its success.
Wow is the most lucrative mmo in history, regardless of who did it first, wow appealed to milions and cashed in on it. The problem is it has polluted the genre with publishers who insist on the games they invest in meeting specific parameters associated with wow. Hence the reason why every game is associated with WOW "wow clone".
que the asian grindfest f2p's
while I understand it was not the first, it was the first to make a video game company BILLIONS. That kind of impact you cant deny. So if we all could leave this here, accept it and move forward as the divided community that we are, maybe we can survive until GW2 :-)
To the caterpillar it is the end of the world, to the master, it is a butterfly.
But the problem isn't inherent with WoW. It was successful, but to say that it is their fault that most MMO developers to come after aren't at fault for trying to cheaply copy a winning formula to cash in is folly.
That's like blaming Avatar for The Last Airbender.
Again, the frustration is that MMO players who want something specific (sandbox play, free for all PVP, more "old school" structure) want a game that has those, plus the polish and attention of WoW.
Spolier: there won't be a game like that, because no MMO will have the base that WoW has.
Honestly i dont need a WoW base and in that feature wow failed tremendous for me .
Especially after that fiasco of guild perks and daily guild cap .
For players WoW is fun , but for organisers its nothing but frustration .
And i really hope SWTOR is going to be different , and no i dont need 5 million western people and 7 million people (i will never play with in the world asian market)
But wow structure this year is going to really fail for both hardcore and casuals (hardcore cause they will be overbuned in 2 months , casual cause they will face the same dillema or even worst in 3 months ) since hardcore quit .
Casuals in a dungeon farming gear is a nightmare , when they are low performance and no patience cause of its no FUN to wipe .
Sorry if you are watiing for a new mmo , dont bother with wow cataclysme , it will ruin all sense of fed ex , when you start a new mmo , this one is really FED EX extreme , if you do , dont say i didn´t warn you .
That all future mmo you play , you will have a feeling i did it all before .
What are these 'organizers' and why are they not considered players?
OP, you should know by now that forums are basically for complaints.
I hope you're joking. They didn't put millions of dollars into that game just to be different. Their gonna appeal to the same market of casuals, you know, the one you despise so much. The casual market really is where the money is today, and considering that EA (only guys worse than Activision) is backing them, you know their gonna go where the money is.
Honestly, why do something different and, i dare use the word, "hardcore" and appeal to a gamer when you can make it accessible and "casual" and get the whole family involved. Nintendo did it with the Wii and people laughed at them. Five years later those very people are playing catch up with their own motion controllers and casual games.
So don't get your hopes up. by your definition, it will be Fed Ex ... with a lightsaber.
Ever been a raid or guild leader? It's more demanding than it seems. Set up a guild forum, set up and event calendar, recruit the needed players, make sure everybody is online on time to start, look for replacements when needed, setup the DKP or whatever loot distribution system, organize crafters so that everybody has the needed raiding consumables, set up your Ventrilo/TS server. For each hour you have spent raiding your raid leader has probably spent another hour preparing the event. Your raid leader has probably been working really hard to provide you and the rest of your guild some good fun... And then you abruptly leave the game or the guild and the raid leader has to recruit a new member, organize runs to gear him/her up. explain the tactics again...
I hope that answers your question.
Your answer was good with the first sentence and kind of went down a bit from there.
Most good guild leaders pawn jobs off to several people in a guild. Webpage usually goes to a person good at web pages. Sometimes raids are assigned to officers as well. The sign up for the raids are usually on the web page with class specific slots available depending on the raid. The only real work the raid leader has to do is have meetings with the officers and the guild once in a while to handle drama and promotions and guild kicks.
The only real work associated with "organizers" is if they are doing pick up groups or trying to fill gaps in needed player types for raiding. Most of the other stuff the guild leader can just spam the guild URL to people for info in reguards to raiding. Alot of games have complete write ups on how to defeat a boss encounter or entire dungeons step by step. This URL info can also be spammed or listed ahead of raiding times on the webpage for people new to the guild or the particular raid being attempted.
You have not answered my question: Ever been a raid or a guild leader? Trust me, it's not as easy as you make it look.
Yes I have been a guild leader in several games. There is work involved, but it's more a meta game that makes the game as a whole more interesting. It is not for the feint of heart or the easily disorganized. Most of the work is put in initially, several hours. After that it becomes much easier.
My first guild as leader we didn't have a home page or anything. It was just based on in game Guild chat and Posted Messages of the day with info on raid times. Those days were work indeed. Alot of chaos and alot of drama. It is definately not for everyone.
Well, so at least we agree on something, and I ll use your own words: It is not for the feint of heart or the easily disorganized.
And I guess you are better than me at delegating responsabilities onto officers, or maybe I am bad at choosing officers and I just get slackers, hehe. Still, that was my point. There's people in these games working for the community. Raid leaders were just used here as an example. Some other guys implement UIs, others run unofficial events, some others write those dungeon guides that you mentioned...
I guess those are the "organizers" we were talking about. It's people who give some extra to the community. They are commited to the community and the game in some way or another. Obviously, these people tend to "think too much" (using the OP's expression) and game/guild hopers don't make it easy for them.