All hardware prices are a ripoff considering depreciation rates.
This is half-true.
I was expecting my original NES to be worth tons by the time N64 came out, but it ended up being worth 10 bucks, at the most, for the console, and about a buck a game. The same stands for old PC parts and software, but not as extensively. When a new Nvidia card comes out, all the old ones drop in price so they get off of the shelves... though nothing quite like how the price of the ps2 and it's games has once the ps3 came out. It's just a faster moving market, so the products see the change in like-terms.
Wish you could have some 'historical value' for old s**t though. Blows my minds how worthless old console goods are when compared to the general rarity of it all.
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60" HDTV = $2000, nope, computer gaming is still cheaper
One of the best things that PC has over consoles is that alot of the best games come to PC. So you can play games from PS3, and 360. I don't think I've found a Wii game for the computer, but I got a Wii for that.
60" HDTV = $2000, nope, computer gaming is still cheaper
Everybody i know already has a tv, so unless your claiming that people that play pc games dont own a tv your point is meaningless.
Also if someone owns a ps3 they have a blueray player also. So they have a tv, and movie player that will last for years.
I dont understand why people are so down on someone just because they prefer one way to play games over another. It's like some of you take it as a personal attack if people dont play the way you do.
My computer can run any game i want (this year) but i doubt i'll keep pumping money in hardware just to play these same overdone mmo's. The few single player games worth playing are on xbox 360 an ps3. I just prefer to drink a few beers on the couch an look at a 60" screen instead of a 19" a foot in front of my face.
PC will always be more expencive , its gota do more whit the same or higher level of hardware.
its not the hardware of a pc that makes game run slower then console games. (using a pc whit windows and the nearest possible configuration as the x360) its the software. pc's work whit layers of software put ontop of each otehr switching cpu power to whatever is on top. due to the need of being able to do anyting the software has a -Huge- cost on preformance. if microsoft would release a Xbox OS for the PC that would boot just like windows does the basic pc's ( $300 or less) would run the same games perfectly. lets not forget that the xbox only uses a x1900 (R600) videocard. actualy its a R500 type but same type of design as the R600. you can find the specs yourself whit no effort on the net.
We all are fools anyway. production cost of pcs and consoles is about 25% or less then the actual retail prizes. all else is tax and profit.
I think that your prices are very inflated. I made my computer 3 years ago for $700 and can run any game like a champ. The only thing that it is missing is that the GPU was made before DX11, so it can only do DX10, as if that is even a noticeable thing. I know for a fact it runs games on a level untouched by even the PS3, graphics wise.
Although this is more expensive than a $300 Xbox or PS3, its the fact that everyone already needs a PC so just save that $300 and buy a $800 machine instead of a $500 computer. That is why I do not believe that cost is an issue here.
The reason for more people playing on consoles than PC is, in my opinion remember, that the average gamer doesnt want to be considered a nerd and wants to be considered casual. But when you start playing games on your PC it opens the door for people to feel like they are nerding out. Also, what is more casual than sitting back on your recliner playing madden or black ops with a wireless controller.
East Carolina University, Computer Science BS, 2011 -------------------- Current game: DAOC
Games played and quit: L2, PlanetSide, RF Online, GuildWars, SWG, COH/COV, Vanguard, LOTRO, WoW, WW2 Online, FFXI, Auto-Assault, EVE Online, ShadowBane, RYL, Rappelz, Last Chaos, Myst Online, POTBS, EQ2, Warhammer Online, AoC, Aion, Champions Online, Star Trek Online, Allods, Darkfall.
Your price estimates seem too high, I just built a comp for around ~$400 which included an AMD Quad Core, 4 GB DDR3 ram, 5770, you don't build a completely new one everytime, you can always reuse your psu, case, usually ram.
My other comp lasted me 3 years fine, running everything high/max, still runs everything fine.
Using your estimate, $1300 every 4 years, is less than a dollar a day, something a person uses everyday I think is worth a dollar a day for it's usage.
With mmo subs being $15 a month, calculate that into 4 years, that's $720, I think a person that spends $15 a month on a game can afford a gaming comp every couple of years.
We all are fools anyway. production cost of pcs and consoles is about 25% or less then the actual retail prizes. all else is tax and profit.
Not true at all with consoles, Microsoft actually loses money on every xbox they sell and I would assume Sony is in the same boat. This is because they make it all back and more from selling licenses to game developers.
We all are fools anyway. production cost of pcs and consoles is about 25% or less then the actual retail prizes. all else is tax and profit.
You have to remember that 25% includes profit both for the manufacturer and the seller.
And that's just the tip of the iceberg. Seller has to cover all costs from his share which includes marketing, logistics, employee payments, rent, electricity, water and all those small things that add up to a huge pile. Small shops are struggling already as they have higher wholesale prices and their margin for profit is very small.
Not to forget that at least here VAT is 23%... That's a big cut from 25% you estimated for taxes and profit.
Edit: After reading again I'm not sure if you mean 25% less than retail prices or less than 25% of the retail prices. 25% of the retail prices sounds more reasonable to me.
Originally posted by lunatisLet's be honest, I do have a core 2 duo, 2 gig of ram, a 500 gig hdd, and a 8800GTS 320MB, and it's not gonna run everything as well as you guys say. Upgrading for a GTX 460 would cost me about 175$ and it would slightly increase performance from my 8800GTS just because of the extra RAM and a FEW more cuda cores... What bugs me is that you never really run the game perfectly smooth at all times, for everything it was intended to. It's nice to hunt bunnies in Westfall but it's nicer to be able to do Fortress Raids in Aion...
Ridiculous, a GTX 460 is so many times faster than an 8800 GTS 320MB that the cards can't even be compared. The 8800GTS 320MB was on a shitty 320bit memory bus and was slower than the 8800 GT. The 8800 GTS 512MB was actually a decent card, to the point of being almost twice as fast as the 8800 GTS 320MB and nothing to do with the extra ram but the fact the GPU in the 512MB version is the G92 while the GPU in the 320MB version was the G80, older tech. Nvidia's f'd up rebranding scheme threw people off a lot with those cards.
A Radeon 5670 is probably twice as fast as an 8800 GTS 320MB. Even on the 8800 though if you actually set the graphics level down to console level (1280x720, low quality textures and effects), you'd still probably overcome most the issues you have. But most MMO's stress the CPU a lot so they are not a good subject for a cheap ass system to run well during raids.
Of course a console's hardware would never handle an Aion raid period. Any game a console can handle though, a cheap ass computer can handle easily.
60" HDTV = $2000, nope, computer gaming is still cheaper
Everybody i know already has a tv, so unless your claiming that people that play pc games dont own a tv your point is meaningless.
How many ppl you actually know 10, 100, 1000? i dont have or havent watched a TV since 2002. Modern TV's can be used with consoles and PC's so if you happen to own one u can scrap that price away from PC too.
Also if someone owns a ps3 they have a blueray player also. So they have a tv, and movie player that will last for years.
i own a PC and i have all those and more + a hardware capability that is 4 year ahead consoles that will last me for years.
I dont understand why people are so down on someone just because they prefer one way to play games over another. It's like some of you take it as a personal attack if people dont play the way you do.
just because you own a Volkswagen and are happy with it doesnt mean that ppl who can/want to drive with Audi/Porsche/Lamborghini should accept the claim of VW owners that they have the latest and best technology with the cheapest price. + the whole argument is universal and isnt exclusive to anyone.
My computer can run any game i want (this year) but i doubt i'll keep pumping money in hardware just to play these same overdone mmo's. The few single player games worth playing are on xbox 360 an ps3. I just prefer to drink a few beers on the couch an look at a 60" screen instead of a 19" a foot in front of my face.
Your personal taste differs from mine .. i dont see any games released to consoles that are worth my time.
take a 24" monitor and measure its width from foot away , then take a 60" TV and measure it from 9 foot away .... doesnt look so big anymore does it ? ( with my non combat pilot/sniper eyesight i would need to be closer to the TV anyways since some of the FPS etc i play have engament ranges up to 2-3km .. when was the last time CoD had anything happening beyond 200m? )
and lots of ppl have then assumption PC gamers play on crappy office chair ... i play on a ergonomic leather mini-couch that is so good it basically only lacks a life support system so u wouldnt have to leave it ever.
no personal attacks intended its just odd why these kinda reasoning pop up in every place you look .. it isnt the responsilbilty of a PC gamer to just bite the argument when others try to standarsize gaming and hardware in general when theres an obvious and vocal group of people who just want more from their gaming experience.
60" HDTV = $2000, nope, computer gaming is still cheaper
Everybody i know already has a tv, so unless your claiming that people that play pc games dont own a tv your point is meaningless.
How many ppl you actually know 10, 100, 1000? i dont have or havent watched a TV since 2002. Modern TV's can be used with consoles and PC's so if you happen to own one u can scrap that price away from PC too.
Also if someone owns a ps3 they have a blueray player also. So they have a tv, and movie player that will last for years.
i own a PC and i have all those and more + a hardware capability that is 4 year ahead consoles that will last me for years.
I dont understand why people are so down on someone just because they prefer one way to play games over another. It's like some of you take it as a personal attack if people dont play the way you do.
just because you own a Volkswagen and are happy with it doesnt mean that ppl who can/want to drive with Audi/Porsche/Lamborghini should accept the claim of VW owners that they have the latest and best technology with the cheapest price. + the whole argument is universal and isnt exclusive to anyone.
My computer can run any game i want (this year) but i doubt i'll keep pumping money in hardware just to play these same overdone mmo's. The few single player games worth playing are on xbox 360 an ps3. I just prefer to drink a few beers on the couch an look at a 60" screen instead of a 19" a foot in front of my face.
Your personal taste differs from mine .. i dont see any games released to consoles that are worth my time.
take a 24" monitor and measure its width from foot away , then take a 60" TV and measure it from 9 foot away .... doesnt look so big anymore does it ? ( with my non combat pilot/sniper eyesight i would need to be closer to the TV anyways since some of the FPS etc i play have engament ranges up to 2-3km .. when was the last time CoD had anything happening beyond 200m? )
and lots of ppl have then assumption PC gamers play on crappy office chair ... i play on a ergonomic leather mini-couch that is so good it basically only lacks a life support system so u wouldnt have to leave it ever.
no personal attacks intended its just odd why these kinda reasoning pop up in every place you look .. it isnt the responsilbilty of a PC gamer to just bite the argument when others try to standarsize gaming and hardware in general when theres an obvious and vocal group of people who just want more from their gaming experience.
Gravang was using buying a tv as a price to include in a console purchase and i was pointing out that people already own a tv so you cant include that in the pricing of a console. If that was the case then when you buy a dvd movie it doesnt really cost $20 it cost $1520. I thought that was obvious.
I'm not standardizing gaming and hardware. The point of this thread is "hardware prices a rip off" you may enjoy only pc games but that doesnt make your hardware any cheaper.
And you see no console games worth your time......lol.... i'll let that comment pass.
Thanks for proving my point that people take it as a personal attack if someone doesn't play the way prefer to play.
We all are fools anyway. production cost of pcs and consoles is about 25% or less then the actual retail prizes. all else is tax and profit.
You have to remember that 25% includes profit both for the manufacturer and the seller.
And that's just the tip of the iceberg. Seller has to cover all costs from his share which includes marketing, logistics, employee payments, rent, electricity, water and all those small things that add up to a huge pile. Small shops are struggling already as they have higher wholesale prices and their margin for profit is very small.
Not to forget that at least here VAT is 23%... That's a big cut from 25% you estimated for taxes and profit.
Edit: After reading again I'm not sure if you mean 25% less than retail prices or less than 25% of the retail prices. 25% of the retail prices sounds more reasonable to me.
Thank you for mentioning that. I sometimes see people mention that these game companies are cleaning up because of how much they charge, how many subsribers, how much they sell, etc.
But there is so much more that goes into running a business.
I'm surprised the margins are that slim as my experience in retail was that, for the most part, there was a 50% mark-up on many items.
People tend to forget how much "fringe" detracts from a company's profits.
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If the cost of the TV shouldn't be counted toward the price of a console, then the cost of computer components that you'd get even if not for gaming shouldn't count toward the cost of a gaming computer. If a gaming computer costs $100 for a video card, plus components that you'd buy because you need a computer for other purposes, then making it a gaming computer only costs you $100. And that's surely cheaper than a console.
Here's another point which I haven't seen anyone touch on.
OP's question, do I want to spend 1100 or 300 every 4 years for a new pc or a new console. Hmmm. What about all the exclusive deals for games we see?
Want the new GT game? Need a playstation - $300. Oh but I want to play Halo too, need an xbox - another $300. Damn I forgot about Zelda for the kids, gonna need a nintendo - yet another $300.
I know so many people who don' have "a" console, they have all 3, because of all the stupid exclusivity deals between games developers and the console makers.
It seems like for all the discussion, we're really back at the same place we were two pages ago, though I'll give credit to Noquarter for mentioned his side-by-side comparisons to confirm how bad console graphics really are.
Consoles use cheap, inferior hardware, that even the absolute cheapest PC completely blows away. GPU-wise, even a $50 PC video card is vastly superior to what consoles come with. Consoles just flat out have crappy, substandard visuals compared to what even a cheap PC can produce, and given their hardware, this should come as no suprise.
I'm also not surprised at Noquarter's mention of how badly Linux ran on his PS3, given that you only have 256mb of system ram to work with in addition to the sub-par GPU. No matter how hard one tries, they are just never going to get a workable multi-purpose computers.
There are also a lot of PC exclusive games that are PC exclusive specifically because they exceed the capbilities of a console.
In short, we're back at the same place we were before: you get what you pay for. Consoles are $300 computers, and $300 worth of computer is exactly what you get for the price of purchasing one. For some of us, who require or even simply want more powerful machines, that just isn't good enough, and we are perfectly justified to spend a little more on a vastly superior system, because consoles are not a better deal. You pay the price of a lousy computer, and that's precisely what you get. If that's what you want, then fine, but don't knock the rest of us who want something decent to do our computing and gaming on.
Hardware vs hardware... Who cares? It's all about the games and sadly these days you need all platforms to experience all the good stuff. If you just PC game you miss out on so much... Same goes for only playing console games. If I wanna play games like Starcraft and Eve I have to turn on the PC, if I wanna play God of war 3 or Uncharted 2 I need to goto my PS3, same goes for Metroid & Zelda with my Wii and Halo & Forza on my 360. In a perfect world all games would be available on all platforms but it Doesn't work that way so this discussion is moot.
Gravang was using buying a tv as a price to include in a console purchase and i was pointing out that people already own a tv so you cant include that in the pricing of a console. If that was the case then when you buy a dvd movie it doesnt really cost $20 it cost $1520. I thought that was obvious.
this has been allready answered by Quizzical so i dont go there
I'm not standardizing gaming and hardware. The point of this thread is "hardware prices a rip off" you may enjoy only pc games but that doesnt make your hardware any cheaper.
the OP was saying that "PC hardware prices are a rip off" and others have said things along the lines that "PC games can barely keep up with consoles" , "You need a 2000$ PC to run games identical on PS3 and 360", and that "PS3 isnt only for gaming but Bluray and Music aswell" ... does my personal preference make the hardware cheaper? NO is the hardware as expensive as OP and number of posters have said? NO
do you need a 2000$ PC to run games with GFX equilevant to PS3 / 360? NO
And you see no console games worth your time......lol.... i'll let that comment pass.
Theres a difference saying i dont see console games that are worth my time and that the few single player games worth playing are on 360 and PS3 ... check your post ... so yea personal preference isnt valid reason to skip console games anymore ?
Thanks for proving my point that people take it as a personal attack if someone doesn't play the way prefer to play.
Thanks for proving the point that when been asked the question "why would you buy a PC for gaming?" no answer is good enough ... and circling the conversation around the price of a current top end GPU doesnt invalidate the fact that theres more options than buying the latest stuff and that when comparing console and PC prices the consoles dont really hold any special "Bang for the Buck" factor over PC's ... most of your post consists of remarks to how you like to play games and i was just answering to them to point out that its your way to play not mine and that though my hardware isnt cheaper because i like PC games they are not more expensive because you like PS3/360 either.
and credit to Noquarter from me too... its nice to see someone actually making the comparisons rather than jumping on Bandwagon based on their own belief's
Gravang was using buying a tv as a price to include in a console purchase and i was pointing out that people already own a tv so you cant include that in the pricing of a console. If that was the case then when you buy a dvd movie it doesnt really cost $20 it cost $1520. I thought that was obvious.
this has been allready answered by Quizzical so i dont go there
I'm not standardizing gaming and hardware. The point of this thread is "hardware prices a rip off" you may enjoy only pc games but that doesnt make your hardware any cheaper.
the OP was saying that "PC hardware prices are a rip off" and others have said things along the lines that "PC games can barely keep up with consoles" , "You need a 2000$ PC to run games identical on PS3 and 360", and that "PS3 isnt only for gaming but Bluray and Music aswell" ... does my personal preference make the hardware cheaper? NO is the hardware as expensive as OP and number of posters have said? NO
do you need a 2000$ PC to run games with GFX equilevant to PS3 / 360? NO
And you see no console games worth your time......lol.... i'll let that comment pass.
Theres a difference saying i dont see console games that are worth my time and that the few single player games worth playing are on 360 and PS3 ... check your post ... so yea personal preference isnt valid reason to skip console games anymore ?
Thanks for proving my point that people take it as a personal attack if someone doesn't play the way prefer to play.
Thanks for proving the point that when been asked the question "why would you buy a PC for gaming?" no answer is good enough ... and circling the conversation around the price of a current top end GPU doesnt invalidate the fact that theres more options than buying the latest stuff and that when comparing console and PC prices the consoles dont really hold any special "Bang for the Buck" factor over PC's ... most of your post consists of remarks to how you like to play games and i was just answering to them to point out that its your way to play not mine and that though my hardware isnt cheaper because i like PC games they are not more expensive because you like PS3/360 either.
and credit to Noquarter from me too... its nice to see someone actually making the comparisons rather than jumping on Bandwagon based on their own belief's
Indeed, amidst the flood of fanboy comments from a lot of people here who clearly know little or nothing about hardware, Noquarter is one of the people making actual useful comparisons.
Some of the claims we're getting from the console side of things have been absolutely amazing, like claiming that PCs have trouble "keeping up" with console graphics when consoles are sporting paltry $30 GPUs (optimistically) and can't generate visuals anywhere near as good as those of even a cheap gaming PC. The price argument doesn't hold up under scrutiny either, of course.
That isn't to say that consoles aren't worth purchase, but there's a reason some of us buy PCs instead, and they're anything but a "ripoff".
To go with what Quizzical pointed out, I'd have about 70% of my present computer anyways, so really, I'm only paying $300 to game on it, and that's for a $1000 system.
I think when it comes to Consoles VS PCs the hardware is just a small part of the equation.
Console games learn to squeeze every ounce of performance they can out of the system. They also have a single system to build for rather than a large variety.
On the other hand, I'm sure all of us have experienced an un-optimized PC game, or one that was optimized for only one architecture. Then add in bad driver implementation, shoddy operating systems, etc.
It seems to me that if the video card market was stalled for a period of time developers would have to optimize their games.
Drop the next-gen marketing and people will argue if the game itself has merit.
I think when it comes to Consoles VS PCs the hardware is just a small part of the equation.
Console games learn to squeeze every ounce of performance they can out of the system. They also have a single system to build for rather than a large variety.
On the other hand, I'm sure all of us have experienced an un-optimized PC game, or one that was optimized for only one architecture. Then add in bad driver implementation, shoddy operating systems, etc.
It seems to me that if the video card market was stalled for a period of time developers would have to optimize their games.
This is about the only reason why I would like to see a greater push towards the console market. Developers have an exact set of hardware to develop for and can really push the boundries of those hardware specs.
The overall "freedom" of PC gaming is both a blessing and a curse. Eventually, you're going to be left out in the cold if you don't upgrade or repurchase a new system. In the long run, PC gaming can be cheaper since you can piece together upgrades for your system instead of replacing for a new console every 5-6 years.
If consoles implemented good keyboard and mouse options, you'd probably see more people willing to play mmos on em.
1100$ average (if you keep the old monitor, 1300$ average with a new monitor with HDMI)
So let's say 1300$.
Do you want to invest 1300$ every 4 years to play video games or 300$?
The only reason you have to upgrade between, is that computer hardware companies encourage game companies NOT to optimize their graphics and/or code to run smooth on YOUR machine.
Power Supply: 66$ (even a 4yo cpu should have a 500W PS)
Hard Drives: 98$ (cheaper exists, but cheaper isnt always better)
DVD Writer: 30$
PC Setup: 50$
Shipping: Probably 50$
TOTAL: 900$ for a new system.
DO NOT NEED: Keyboard, Mouse, Screen, OS.
If you need a new system after only 4 years, you did it wrong the first time. Try doing it right. My GF can game on a 9yo PC, obviously not at max settings anymore. My PC is getting its first upgrade and is 3.5yo. Ill get a 200$ videocard.
If the cost of the TV shouldn't be counted toward the price of a console, then the cost of computer components that you'd get even if not for gaming shouldn't count toward the cost of a gaming computer. If a gaming computer costs $100 for a video card, plus components that you'd buy because you need a computer for other purposes, then making it a gaming computer only costs you $100. And that's surely cheaper than a console.
Wow you guys are really grasping for anything to make your pc cost less than a console.
Why stop there??? Go ahead and add to the cost of consules the stand the tv sits on, or if it's mounted to the wall the cost of your house..lol...add in the chair your sitting on.. and hey just throw in the electric bill too.
If this is how you compare prices your buying something you really need to take a step back and listen to yourself.
If the cost of the TV shouldn't be counted toward the price of a console, then the cost of computer components that you'd get even if not for gaming shouldn't count toward the cost of a gaming computer. If a gaming computer costs $100 for a video card, plus components that you'd buy because you need a computer for other purposes, then making it a gaming computer only costs you $100. And that's surely cheaper than a console.
Wow you guys are really grasping for anything to make your pc cost less than a console.
Why stop there??? Go ahead and add to the cost of consules the stand the tv sits on, or if it's mounted to the wall the cost of your house..lol...add in the chair your sitting on.. and hey just throw in the electric bill too.
If this is how you compare prices your buying something you really need to take a step back and listen to yourself.
that all is part of it. Take a cost accounting class, you should be factoring in power consumption also.
To the caterpillar it is the end of the world, to the master, it is a butterfly.
Gravang was using buying a tv as a price to include in a console purchase and i was pointing out that people already own a tv so you cant include that in the pricing of a console. If that was the case then when you buy a dvd movie it doesnt really cost $20 it cost $1520. I thought that was obvious.
this has been allready answered by Quizzical so i dont go there
I'm not standardizing gaming and hardware. The point of this thread is "hardware prices a rip off" you may enjoy only pc games but that doesnt make your hardware any cheaper.
the OP was saying that "PC hardware prices are a rip off" and others have said things along the lines that "PC games can barely keep up with consoles" , "You need a 2000$ PC to run games identical on PS3 and 360", and that "PS3 isnt only for gaming but Bluray and Music aswell" ... does my personal preference make the hardware cheaper? NO is the hardware as expensive as OP and number of posters have said? NO
do you need a 2000$ PC to run games with GFX equilevant to PS3 / 360? NO
And you see no console games worth your time......lol.... i'll let that comment pass.
Theres a difference saying i dont see console games that are worth my time and that the few single player games worth playing are on 360 and PS3 ... check your post ... so yea personal preference isnt valid reason to skip console games anymore ?
Thanks for proving my point that people take it as a personal attack if someone doesn't play the way prefer to play.
Thanks for proving the point that when been asked the question "why would you buy a PC for gaming?" no answer is good enough ... and circling the conversation around the price of a current top end GPU doesnt invalidate the fact that theres more options than buying the latest stuff and that when comparing console and PC prices the consoles dont really hold any special "Bang for the Buck" factor over PC's ... most of your post consists of remarks to how you like to play games and i was just answering to them to point out that its your way to play not mine and that though my hardware isnt cheaper because i like PC games they are not more expensive because you like PS3/360 either.
and credit to Noquarter from me too... its nice to see someone actually making the comparisons rather than jumping on Bandwagon based on their own belief's
you need to read your earlier posts again. You've totally backtracked and mixed up all your answers till your reply was totally confusing. Wish i could give a reply but i couldn't make sense out of what you were trying to say.
But you said earlier "I dont see any games released to consoles that are worth my time"......your answer in your reply made no sense.
Comments
All hardware prices are a ripoff considering depreciation rates.
Remember, it has to be fun to be a game. Grinding is a bedroom activity, and the point is definitely not to do my wife as fast as possible.
This is half-true.
I was expecting my original NES to be worth tons by the time N64 came out, but it ended up being worth 10 bucks, at the most, for the console, and about a buck a game. The same stands for old PC parts and software, but not as extensively. When a new Nvidia card comes out, all the old ones drop in price so they get off of the shelves... though nothing quite like how the price of the ps2 and it's games has once the ps3 came out. It's just a faster moving market, so the products see the change in like-terms.
Wish you could have some 'historical value' for old s**t though. Blows my minds how worthless old console goods are when compared to the general rarity of it all.
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60" HDTV = $2000, nope, computer gaming is still cheaper
One of the best things that PC has over consoles is that alot of the best games come to PC. So you can play games from PS3, and 360. I don't think I've found a Wii game for the computer, but I got a Wii for that.
Everybody i know already has a tv, so unless your claiming that people that play pc games dont own a tv your point is meaningless.
Also if someone owns a ps3 they have a blueray player also. So they have a tv, and movie player that will last for years.
I dont understand why people are so down on someone just because they prefer one way to play games over another. It's like some of you take it as a personal attack if people dont play the way you do.
My computer can run any game i want (this year) but i doubt i'll keep pumping money in hardware just to play these same overdone mmo's. The few single player games worth playing are on xbox 360 an ps3. I just prefer to drink a few beers on the couch an look at a 60" screen instead of a 19" a foot in front of my face.
PC will always be more expencive , its gota do more whit the same or higher level of hardware.
its not the hardware of a pc that makes game run slower then console games. (using a pc whit windows and the nearest possible configuration as the x360) its the software. pc's work whit layers of software put ontop of each otehr switching cpu power to whatever is on top. due to the need of being able to do anyting the software has a -Huge- cost on preformance. if microsoft would release a Xbox OS for the PC that would boot just like windows does the basic pc's ( $300 or less) would run the same games perfectly. lets not forget that the xbox only uses a x1900 (R600) videocard. actualy its a R500 type but same type of design as the R600. you can find the specs yourself whit no effort on the net.
We all are fools anyway. production cost of pcs and consoles is about 25% or less then the actual retail prizes. all else is tax and profit.
@OP,
I think that your prices are very inflated. I made my computer 3 years ago for $700 and can run any game like a champ. The only thing that it is missing is that the GPU was made before DX11, so it can only do DX10, as if that is even a noticeable thing. I know for a fact it runs games on a level untouched by even the PS3, graphics wise.
Although this is more expensive than a $300 Xbox or PS3, its the fact that everyone already needs a PC so just save that $300 and buy a $800 machine instead of a $500 computer. That is why I do not believe that cost is an issue here.
The reason for more people playing on consoles than PC is, in my opinion remember, that the average gamer doesnt want to be considered a nerd and wants to be considered casual. But when you start playing games on your PC it opens the door for people to feel like they are nerding out. Also, what is more casual than sitting back on your recliner playing madden or black ops with a wireless controller.
East Carolina University, Computer Science BS, 2011
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Current game: DAOC
Games played and quit: L2, PlanetSide, RF Online, GuildWars, SWG, COH/COV, Vanguard, LOTRO, WoW, WW2 Online, FFXI, Auto-Assault, EVE Online, ShadowBane, RYL, Rappelz, Last Chaos, Myst Online, POTBS, EQ2, Warhammer Online, AoC, Aion, Champions Online, Star Trek Online, Allods, Darkfall.
Waiting on: Earthrise
Names: Citio, Goldie, Sportacus
Your price estimates seem too high, I just built a comp for around ~$400 which included an AMD Quad Core, 4 GB DDR3 ram, 5770, you don't build a completely new one everytime, you can always reuse your psu, case, usually ram.
My other comp lasted me 3 years fine, running everything high/max, still runs everything fine.
Using your estimate, $1300 every 4 years, is less than a dollar a day, something a person uses everyday I think is worth a dollar a day for it's usage.
With mmo subs being $15 a month, calculate that into 4 years, that's $720, I think a person that spends $15 a month on a game can afford a gaming comp every couple of years.
Not true at all with consoles, Microsoft actually loses money on every xbox they sell and I would assume Sony is in the same boat. This is because they make it all back and more from selling licenses to game developers.
src: http://www.gamespot.com/news/6140383.html
East Carolina University, Computer Science BS, 2011
--------------------
Current game: DAOC
Games played and quit: L2, PlanetSide, RF Online, GuildWars, SWG, COH/COV, Vanguard, LOTRO, WoW, WW2 Online, FFXI, Auto-Assault, EVE Online, ShadowBane, RYL, Rappelz, Last Chaos, Myst Online, POTBS, EQ2, Warhammer Online, AoC, Aion, Champions Online, Star Trek Online, Allods, Darkfall.
Waiting on: Earthrise
Names: Citio, Goldie, Sportacus
You have to remember that 25% includes profit both for the manufacturer and the seller.
And that's just the tip of the iceberg. Seller has to cover all costs from his share which includes marketing, logistics, employee payments, rent, electricity, water and all those small things that add up to a huge pile. Small shops are struggling already as they have higher wholesale prices and their margin for profit is very small.
Not to forget that at least here VAT is 23%... That's a big cut from 25% you estimated for taxes and profit.
Edit: After reading again I'm not sure if you mean 25% less than retail prices or less than 25% of the retail prices. 25% of the retail prices sounds more reasonable to me.
Ridiculous, a GTX 460 is so many times faster than an 8800 GTS 320MB that the cards can't even be compared. The 8800GTS 320MB was on a shitty 320bit memory bus and was slower than the 8800 GT. The 8800 GTS 512MB was actually a decent card, to the point of being almost twice as fast as the 8800 GTS 320MB and nothing to do with the extra ram but the fact the GPU in the 512MB version is the G92 while the GPU in the 320MB version was the G80, older tech. Nvidia's f'd up rebranding scheme threw people off a lot with those cards.
A Radeon 5670 is probably twice as fast as an 8800 GTS 320MB. Even on the 8800 though if you actually set the graphics level down to console level (1280x720, low quality textures and effects), you'd still probably overcome most the issues you have. But most MMO's stress the CPU a lot so they are not a good subject for a cheap ass system to run well during raids.
Of course a console's hardware would never handle an Aion raid period. Any game a console can handle though, a cheap ass computer can handle easily.
no personal attacks intended its just odd why these kinda reasoning pop up in every place you look .. it isnt the responsilbilty of a PC gamer to just bite the argument when others try to standarsize gaming and hardware in general when theres an obvious and vocal group of people who just want more from their gaming experience.
Gravang was using buying a tv as a price to include in a console purchase and i was pointing out that people already own a tv so you cant include that in the pricing of a console. If that was the case then when you buy a dvd movie it doesnt really cost $20 it cost $1520. I thought that was obvious.
I'm not standardizing gaming and hardware. The point of this thread is "hardware prices a rip off" you may enjoy only pc games but that doesnt make your hardware any cheaper.
And you see no console games worth your time......lol.... i'll let that comment pass.
Thanks for proving my point that people take it as a personal attack if someone doesn't play the way prefer to play.
Thank you for mentioning that. I sometimes see people mention that these game companies are cleaning up because of how much they charge, how many subsribers, how much they sell, etc.
But there is so much more that goes into running a business.
I'm surprised the margins are that slim as my experience in retail was that, for the most part, there was a 50% mark-up on many items.
People tend to forget how much "fringe" detracts from a company's profits.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
If the cost of the TV shouldn't be counted toward the price of a console, then the cost of computer components that you'd get even if not for gaming shouldn't count toward the cost of a gaming computer. If a gaming computer costs $100 for a video card, plus components that you'd buy because you need a computer for other purposes, then making it a gaming computer only costs you $100. And that's surely cheaper than a console.
Here's another point which I haven't seen anyone touch on.
OP's question, do I want to spend 1100 or 300 every 4 years for a new pc or a new console. Hmmm. What about all the exclusive deals for games we see?
Want the new GT game? Need a playstation - $300. Oh but I want to play Halo too, need an xbox - another $300. Damn I forgot about Zelda for the kids, gonna need a nintendo - yet another $300.
I know so many people who don' have "a" console, they have all 3, because of all the stupid exclusivity deals between games developers and the console makers.
I'll stick with my PC thanks.
It seems like for all the discussion, we're really back at the same place we were two pages ago, though I'll give credit to Noquarter for mentioned his side-by-side comparisons to confirm how bad console graphics really are.
Consoles use cheap, inferior hardware, that even the absolute cheapest PC completely blows away. GPU-wise, even a $50 PC video card is vastly superior to what consoles come with. Consoles just flat out have crappy, substandard visuals compared to what even a cheap PC can produce, and given their hardware, this should come as no suprise.
I'm also not surprised at Noquarter's mention of how badly Linux ran on his PS3, given that you only have 256mb of system ram to work with in addition to the sub-par GPU. No matter how hard one tries, they are just never going to get a workable multi-purpose computers.
There are also a lot of PC exclusive games that are PC exclusive specifically because they exceed the capbilities of a console.
In short, we're back at the same place we were before: you get what you pay for. Consoles are $300 computers, and $300 worth of computer is exactly what you get for the price of purchasing one. For some of us, who require or even simply want more powerful machines, that just isn't good enough, and we are perfectly justified to spend a little more on a vastly superior system, because consoles are not a better deal. You pay the price of a lousy computer, and that's precisely what you get. If that's what you want, then fine, but don't knock the rest of us who want something decent to do our computing and gaming on.
Doesn't work that way so this discussion is moot.
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
and credit to Noquarter from me too... its nice to see someone actually making the comparisons rather than jumping on Bandwagon based on their own belief's
Indeed, amidst the flood of fanboy comments from a lot of people here who clearly know little or nothing about hardware, Noquarter is one of the people making actual useful comparisons.
Some of the claims we're getting from the console side of things have been absolutely amazing, like claiming that PCs have trouble "keeping up" with console graphics when consoles are sporting paltry $30 GPUs (optimistically) and can't generate visuals anywhere near as good as those of even a cheap gaming PC. The price argument doesn't hold up under scrutiny either, of course.
That isn't to say that consoles aren't worth purchase, but there's a reason some of us buy PCs instead, and they're anything but a "ripoff".
To go with what Quizzical pointed out, I'd have about 70% of my present computer anyways, so really, I'm only paying $300 to game on it, and that's for a $1000 system.
I think when it comes to Consoles VS PCs the hardware is just a small part of the equation.
Console games learn to squeeze every ounce of performance they can out of the system. They also have a single system to build for rather than a large variety.
On the other hand, I'm sure all of us have experienced an un-optimized PC game, or one that was optimized for only one architecture. Then add in bad driver implementation, shoddy operating systems, etc.
It seems to me that if the video card market was stalled for a period of time developers would have to optimize their games.
Drop the next-gen marketing and people will argue if the game itself has merit.
This is about the only reason why I would like to see a greater push towards the console market. Developers have an exact set of hardware to develop for and can really push the boundries of those hardware specs.
The overall "freedom" of PC gaming is both a blessing and a curse. Eventually, you're going to be left out in the cold if you don't upgrade or repurchase a new system. In the long run, PC gaming can be cheaper since you can piece together upgrades for your system instead of replacing for a new console every 5-6 years.
If consoles implemented good keyboard and mouse options, you'd probably see more people willing to play mmos on em.
Processor (CPU): 155$
Motherboard: 106$
4Gb DDR3 RAM: 70$
Video Card: 206$ (AMD Radeon HD 6850)
Computer Case: 62$ has to fit in something
Power Supply: 66$ (even a 4yo cpu should have a 500W PS)
Hard Drives: 98$ (cheaper exists, but cheaper isnt always better)
DVD Writer: 30$
PC Setup: 50$
Shipping: Probably 50$
TOTAL: 900$ for a new system.
DO NOT NEED: Keyboard, Mouse, Screen, OS.
If you need a new system after only 4 years, you did it wrong the first time. Try doing it right. My GF can game on a 9yo PC, obviously not at max settings anymore. My PC is getting its first upgrade and is 3.5yo. Ill get a 200$ videocard.
Wow you guys are really grasping for anything to make your pc cost less than a console.
Why stop there??? Go ahead and add to the cost of consules the stand the tv sits on, or if it's mounted to the wall the cost of your house..lol...add in the chair your sitting on.. and hey just throw in the electric bill too.
If this is how you compare prices your buying something you really need to take a step back and listen to yourself.
that all is part of it. Take a cost accounting class, you should be factoring in power consumption also.
To the caterpillar it is the end of the world, to the master, it is a butterfly.
you need to read your earlier posts again. You've totally backtracked and mixed up all your answers till your reply was totally confusing. Wish i could give a reply but i couldn't make sense out of what you were trying to say.
But you said earlier "I dont see any games released to consoles that are worth my time"......your answer in your reply made no sense.