Well this time Mr. Murphy has given us a more balanced review, if but still rather on the cheerleading side. As I mentioned before UI and control issues are not too hard to fix though its true some MMO’s launch with a dodgy setup even those MMO’s have it sorted a month into play.
It is the wider issues of whether you can call a game which is so solo a MMO and the balance and fairness of PvP which are more of a concern.
"What? how can you dumb this game down for masses? it is a super hero theme game which is meant to be casual fun. Why do people always throw this line as if means something?"
Any game can be dumbed down, because a game is based on Supers does not mean it has to be 'casual' or for designed for idiots.
And i still don't understand how can this game be anything more then what it is? casual fun. Are you telling me this MMO is too complex for idiots?
/facepalm
Have you played it ? if not then you should try it. It is more challenging than WoW and most casual mmos I have played or tried.
If that's true popinjay, that's odd. And very sad. The most famous heroes in DCU weren't magical at all. Same goes for the villains. Superman and Green Lantern are the only ones off the top of my head I can think of with actual super powers, without going into the titans/gods section of the universe. There were plenty of powerful heroes that used only their brains and their brawn, and did a good job of it, too. Where are all the Batmans (though I guess he'd fall under gadgets), Rich Dragons, Guardians, Nightwings, Vigilantes, etc?
From what I've seen (and granted I could be missing something here), if you want to be something in the game you are given these choices:
Tanking: Fire or Ice based.
Crowd Control: Gadgets, Tricks or Mental based.
Healing: Nature or Sorcery based.
Within each tree there are skills which seem to be retundant amongst them so it doesn't matter much what you choose in that tree. It's when you try to move out of that tree that you're gonna have problems.
If you pick anything with Fire and Ice and want to sit far away hurling deathballs at mobs, you're going to wonder why people keep asking your 125 pound female toon themed on Johnny Flame to tank the bosses. You'll say you want to dps, they'll say tough luck... we need a tank to get that mission done. I know you HATE tanking, but their reply will be then why did you pick a tanking toon?
If you say something sensible like.. because I like fire spells, they'll say good luck with that.
Like it or not, because they are the ones with the tanking talents people aren't going to expect Fire and Ice people to be sitting back there doing dps, so if you pick these trees you're going to have to learn to tank. That is something people don't expect when they start playing but will probably run into down the line.
Unless you're actually lucky enough to have a Fire or Ice guy already wanting to tank, then everyone will be fine with your "DPS only" role.
The system is a lot deeper than that and a simple answer would be “I’m not specced that way”. When you queue for a alert mission you specify the role you want to play so you won’t end up being asked to tank a pickup mission unless you clicked that as the role you wanted to play. Same for healers and controllers. Also you are putting points you earn into one of two power sets, or iconic powers (combat combos and travel powers are a separate pool) so there isn’t a shortage of alternative options if you pick fire/ice but don’t want to tank. You just end up with a role that you never switch to. There do seem to be enough points awarded that you could build multiple roles well although gear might need to be switched around somewhat. That’s not really a bad thing either as it gives everyone the ability to play more than one role as needed. I guess the alternative is your group stops mid way though a mission and disbands because the tank decided to afk for a hour to run to the store and get some cigarettes.
The system is a lot deeper than that and a simple answer would be Im not specced that way.
I went a little off-subject there.
I meant to say that if you are anything but a Fire or Ice based toon, you are NOT tanking. They did not design this game with that in mind specifically.
If you want to play a healer but like to be a Mental or Gadget toon, you're not going to be able to do it, no matter how you spec. You don't have heals.
The system has nice flexibility WITHIN it's tree for sure, but it's extremely limited to what you are going to do based on what type of base power you choose.
You simply cannot play a tank as a Sorcery, Gadget or things like that. Your ONLY choices are Fire or Ice.
Game looks fantastic, and actually runs without a hitch. Something that no other MMO that looks this good has pulled off. Of course that's just my experience, but my computer hasn't been high end since 08', and it runs this game maxxed out without a drop in framerates as of yet. Biggest concern would be a lack of non-combat activities. There's no crafting, no secret identities, no player housing, no mini-games, etc. Not a big deal for those who just want to hop in and beat up on some villians/heroes, but for those looking for depth may find themselves walking away too soon.
However, will have to see at what rate they add things in after release. They need to get the other three power sets in ASAP for example. The groundwork for a very successful launch is there however, and it's SOE, they're very unlikely to have server shakeups on launch day. At least assuming they've learned from their mistakes in the past.
Have you played it ? if not then you should try it. It is more challenging than WoW and most casual mmos I have played or tried.
yes i am playing it for almost 2 weeks. So i can tell you with surety that its not challenging more or less than WOW even though i don't know why are you even comparing two completely different MMOS.
The system is a lot deeper than that and a simple answer would be “I’m not specced that way”.
I went a little off-subject there.
I meant to say that if you are anything but a Fire or Ice based toon, you are NOT tanking. They did not design this game with that in mind specifically.
If you want to play a healer but like to be a Mental or Gadget toon, you're not going to be able to do it, no matter how you spec. You don't have heals.
The system has nice flexibility WITHIN it's tree for sure, but it's extremely limited to what you are going to do based on what type of base power you choose.
You simply cannot play a tank as a Sorcery, Gadget or things like that. Your ONLY choices are Fire or Ice.
Two choices.
As compared to what? Even CO doesn’t let you pick your role and powers separately. Sure you could spread your points out among different power lines in CO but that’s just going to hurt you as you need most of your points in one line to get to the most powerful abilities and that largely defines a fixed role/play style. Yes, your power set choice defines what roles you have access to (there are three per power) but depending on the role you are currently in (you can switch anytime out of combat) your powers change behavior somewhat. So if you are in a damage role your powers take on extra damage properties while if you in a tank role they have some threat or buffing/healing abilities. On top of that you have separate trees for Iconic powers, travel powers, and your weapon style that add a lot of customization and flavor to your toon. On first glance when I looked at it my first thought was “this is way more limiting then something like CO” but after playing with it for awhile I don’t think that’s the case. By separating your weapon style and power set they created a huge variety of choices for different play styles, and if you add on top of that travel and iconic powers then the choices facing a character becomes huge.
I do have a few criticism of the game but the way they designed powers and roles isn’t one of them.
If that's true popinjay, that's odd. And very sad. The most famous heroes in DCU weren't magical at all. Same goes for the villains. Superman and Green Lantern are the only ones off the top of my head I can think of with actual super powers, without going into the titans/gods section of the universe. There were plenty of powerful heroes that used only their brains and their brawn, and did a good job of it, too. Where are all the Batmans (though I guess he'd fall under gadgets), Rich Dragons, Guardians, Nightwings, Vigilantes, etc?
From what I've seen (and granted I could be missing something here), if you want to be something in the game you are given these choices:
Tanking: Fire or Ice based.
Crowd Control: Gadgets, Tricks or Mental based.
Healing: Nature or Sorcery based.
Within each tree there are skills which seem to be retundant amongst them so it doesn't matter much what you choose in that tree. It's when you try to move out of that tree that you're gonna have problems.
If you pick anything with Fire and Ice and want to sit far away hurling deathballs at mobs, you're going to wonder why people keep asking your 125 pound female toon themed on Johnny Flame to tank the bosses. You'll say you want to dps, they'll say tough luck... we need a tank to get that mission done. I know you HATE tanking, but their reply will be then why did you pick a tanking toon?
In over a month of playing this has never happened to me. You don't need to have a tank role to be a tank. Ice tanking isn't even working properly right now and doesn't mitigate damage, fire tanking only increases health points marginally and gives no overall defensive buffs. This is coming way out of left field. Tanking relies specifically on being able to hold aggro, nothing more about taking more damage, because roll spamming, dodging and blocking -- you know, like actual skill, will be a better tank then the guy in the tank role who thinks he's supposed to stand there and take damage.
If you say something sensible like.. because I like fire spells, they'll say good luck with that.
Like it or not, because they are the ones with the tanking talents people aren't going to expect Fire and Ice people to be sitting back there doing dps, so if you pick these trees you're going to have to learn to tank. That is something people don't expect when they start playing but will probably run into down the line.
Yes, they are, everyone in your group can see what role you are, in the alerts, in groups, and in arenas. If you are in a damage role, then they aren't expecting you to be a tank all the time., you're obviously in a damage role. I run a nature character, that means I can heal. When I'm in game people know I'm running a healer spec and I've never been asked, EVER, "Can you turn on your healer role, we really need a healer for this mission." If I'm in an alert or in a group, its about coordination, yeah I'll heal, because healing myself means healing the group, and I know the little nuances of the nature characters that make them a great mix between damage and healing like on the fly role switching which no other class can do, so yeah, I'll throw down some heavy heals, but I've never been asked to play the way someone else wants me to play.
Unless you're actually lucky enough to have a Fire or Ice guy already wanting to tank, then everyone will be fine with your "DPS only" role.
Over exaggeration, plain and simple. You don't want a player being forced into a role they don't know how to play. They've increased the difficulty quite a bit in the last patch, even for some basic mobs. People need to play with what they are comfortable with and what they can play well and coordinate with the rest of the group to be successful. 4 Damage dealers can pass the Oolong alert, even with the crazy mini-bots in their current state. Tactics and skill beat roles and gear in this game, every time, hands down. Thats why my level 5 single bladed nature user I created last night could take out level 18s on the PvP server, 1 on 1.
Honestly, I think CO is a better game than this, and I had REALLY high hopes. I mean, if they wanted to make an MMOFPS they shoulda talked to the guys at Hi-Rez who know how to do it right.
This just seems like some kind of disjointed 3rdf person action game. So, since I can't use my mouse on my action bar, when I want to use that ability on the 9 key, I have to take my hands off my movement keys to activate it? Or buy a special keybaord? Or remap it in some silly way? Come on. Also, even if you're a ranged attacker, you're basically forced into melee constantly, which you might as well use anyway because it's probably more powerful.
We already knew about the lack of customization and powers (which again, they dont' even hold a candle to CO in that department or even CoX)... Three travel power?
What are they bringing to the table really? Unwieldy twich combat? I love twich combat, FPS's, MMO's, hybrid's, etc, but I don't know... I am SO disappointed with this game.
**Edit
Not to be a naysayer, but I'm betting this game ends up in the same boat as every other MMO released in the last 5 years. In a matter of months people will be complaining and not give much of a crap about it except for the few diehards.
This isn't a click to activate game, and it was never meant to be, You don't click your abilities in action games, you click abilities in standard MMOs. What ability do you have on the 9 key? You only have 8 abilities! 6 abilities, one consumable, and 1 trinket. .... So thats somewhat questionable right there.
3 Travel powers? Acrobatics has 2 different modes of travel built in, super speed has speed force to increase the speed by double and so does flight. You can run up walls with super speed, can't do that in CO or CoX. You can cling to walls, use zip lines, double jump, the system is more robust mechanically then CoX or CO could dream of ever making.
This is an ACTION game not an FPS. I LOVE global agenda, I played it for months non-stop, this combat system gives me the same rush I get when I played GA. Its rare to find someone in game right now that truly understands the combat, how combos work, and what you are supposed to do in certain situations.
Ranged players who know how to play ranged, like myself, know how to gain range and what abilities to use. Bad players shouldn't be the constant when deciding how complex or varied this games combat is.
Have you played it ? if not then you should try it. It is more challenging than WoW and most casual mmos I have played or tried.
yes i am playing it for almost 2 weeks. So i can tell you with surety that its not challenging more or less than WOW even though i don't know why are you even comparing two completely different MMOS.
Saying that is not more or less challenging than WoW is completely inaccurate. I'm not quite sure what you have been playing for the past 2 weeks then.
I'm not comparing this two power limitation system for tanking or healing to anything above. To make an obsevation you don't really always have to say "WoW did this but this doesn't".
Earlier I was making a comparison with CO about something else, but this is just my personal bugaboo about only Fire and Ice trees tanking, this isn't a comparison.
I just think it's VERY LIMITING that with a universe as HUGE as DC is... you have only TWO trees to tank with; Fire and Ice given the resources they had to work with.
Sometimes, you don't need a term paper to list all the cons vs another game. But if truth be told on a case by case basis, other than the IP I think Champions Online did a better job with just about everything including character customization and skillsets and UI. And that's Cryptic we're talking about.
This game's UI is so clumsy it's not funny. You end up pushing so many wrong buttons and constatly looking down it's just crazy because you can't even look down and mouse over what skill is sitting on your hotbar. I don't think I've ever had to hit my ESC key this much in a MMO just to reset everything. It's just short of that bungling FFXIV UI for selecting skills.
I'm not sure why people have to devote brain cells to remembering what every single skill does on your hotbar, when in any other MMO you can simply MOUSE over it to read it or just read it. It's sad that in a MMO in this day and age, you have to remember that to cast "Fireball", you make two right mouse clicks and one tug on the right ear and for "Fire Whirlwhirl" its three Clydesdale horsestomps, two left button clicks and a partridge in a peartree.
The game has many good points, but it's seems less of a MMO than a regular console game... maybe that's what they intended though so idk. But it's still beta so we'll see.
3 Travel powers? Acrobatics has 2 different modes of travel built in, super speed has speed force to increase the speed by double and so does flight. You can run up walls with super speed, can't do that in CO or CoX. You can cling to walls, use zip lines, double jump, the system is more robust mechanically then CoX or CO could dream of ever making.
This is so disengenious, it's not even funny.
You're really trying to defend the travel powers in DCUO vs Champions?
Champions Travel Powers:
?Flight - The standard for comparison. ?Superspeed - Fastest travel power; restricted to ground movement. ?Teleportation - Only inertia-free travel power; requires constant reactivation. ?Swinging - Least precise, most engaging; requires constant reactivation. ?Jet Boots - Fastest flight; slowest acceleration, no jetpack option. ?Fire Flight - Flight, but with colored flame aura. ?Earth Flight - Flight, but with a chunk of whatever you were standing on. ?Super Jump - Slow walking, fast and high jumping; can't reach all rooftops. ?Acrobatics - Run fast, jump high; not as fast or as high as Super Speed or Super Jump. ?Ice Slide - Faster and harder to corner than flight; sinks downwards. ?Tunneling - Avoid enemies - and lofty places. ?Rocket Jump - Superjump, now with more science. ?Hover Disk - Fast, flying, color options; no shape options, worst cornering.
And they had all those travel powers at launch as far as I remember.
The game mechanics in this game aren't that deep. They aren't bad but seriuosly friend.. you know they aren't deep at all as a MMO player.
Have you played it ? if not then you should try it. It is more challenging than WoW and most casual mmos I have played or tried.
yes i am playing it for almost 2 weeks. So i can tell you with surety that its not challenging more or less than WOW even though i don't know why are you even comparing two completely different MMOS.
Saying that is not more or less challenging than WoW is completely inaccurate. I'm not quite sure what you have been playing for the past 2 weeks then.
Why the hell you keep comparing this to WOW? they have nothing in common. Its been 2 days i have been playing DCUO and i am lvl 10 and still have to see anything challenging about it. Its a nice casual game and i am definitely going to buy it but from where does WOW keep coming in the discussion?
Who could have thought that WOW could bring super power like USA to its knees?
Originally posted by Arcken
To put it in a nutshell, our society is about to hit the fan, grades are dropping, obesity is going up,childhood the USA is going to lose its super power status before too long, but hey, as long as we have a cheap method to babysit our kids, all will be well no? Im picking on WoW btw because its the beast that made all of this possible
3 Travel powers? Acrobatics has 2 different modes of travel built in, super speed has speed force to increase the speed by double and so does flight. You can run up walls with super speed, can't do that in CO or CoX. You can cling to walls, use zip lines, double jump, the system is more robust mechanically then CoX or CO could dream of ever making.
This is so disengenious, it's not even funny.
You're really trying to defend the travel powers in DCUO vs Champions?
Champions Travel Powers:
?Flight - The standard for comparison.
?Superspeed - Fastest travel power; restricted to ground movement.
?Teleportation - Only inertia-free travel power; requires constant reactivation.
?Swinging - Least precise, most engaging; requires constant reactivation.
?Jet Boots - Fastest flight; slowest acceleration, no jetpack option.
?Fire Flight - Flight, but with colored flame aura.
?Earth Flight - Flight, but with a chunk of whatever you were standing on.
?Super Jump - Slow walking, fast and high jumping; can't reach all rooftops.
?Acrobatics - Run fast, jump high; not as fast or as high as Super Speed or Super Jump.
?Ice Slide - Faster and harder to corner than flight; sinks downwards.
?Tunneling - Avoid enemies - and lofty places.
?Rocket Jump - Superjump, now with more science.
?Hover Disk - Fast, flying, color options; no shape options, worst cornering.
And they had all those travel powers at launch as far as I remember.
The game mechanics in this game aren't that deep. They aren't bad but seriuosly friend.. you know they aren't deep at all as a MMO player.
Out of everything I've posted this is your major gripe.
Earth flight is almost the exact same as ice slide, which is the same as fire flight, which is the same as flight which is the same as hover disk. The nuances don't even matter, its pretty much all the same mode of travel, you just have to decide if you want to gimp your character or not. Aside from the fact that all they are are travel powers, and the only one that actually has any sort of functionality is teleportation because you can get away when you're in the middle of battle, everything else is pretty much just flash with nothing to show for it.
In the end none of it matters because you don't utilize them for anything of purpose in CO, you run around and PvE, or PvP with your other heroes who mainly make premade builds and change them with every patch because you can respec whatever you want whenever you want with no consequence.
The game mechanics are much deeper then many people seem to be giving them credit for. Its just not the boring auto attack combat CO decided to implement. The combat isn't for everyone, but just because people can't understand it or aren't good at it, doesn't mean it isn't deep.
Combat doesn't have to be very "deep" either when its skill based. If by "deep" as an MMO player you mean getting 20 skills on a bunch of bars and sitting there hitting one key after another, being stuck in a particular role, and having gear and predetermined abilities mean more than player skill, then this non-deep kind of combat is quite a breath of fresh air.
While SOE has plenty of bugs to take care of before launch, they've nailed the basic framework. Costume pieces and content is quite literally a trivial matter as these grow over time and are merely aesthetic. The underlying gameplay is what will keep much of the population and they've hit that out of the park.
Out of everything I've posted this is your major gripe.
In the end none of it matters because you don't utilize them for anything of purpose in CO, you run around and PvE, or PvP with your other heroes who mainly make premade builds and change them with every patch because you can respec whatever you want whenever you want with no consequence.
The game mechanics are much deeper then many people seem to be giving them credit for. Its just not the boring auto attack combat CO decided to implement. The combat isn't for everyone, but just because people can't understand it or aren't good at it, doesn't mean it isn't deep.
Combat doesn't have to be very "deep" either when its skill based.
It matters if someone is into themes, which most players are. They spend loads of time in the character creation making a particular toon to play. Travel powers lend to that feel of environment and developers know this. Otherwise, you'd have just one form of travel for everyone and they'd focus on gameplay. Speaking of which...
Deep is one person's opinion as you showed. You're even asking what "deep" really means. Rest assured and semantics aside, I think most people in general know what deep means in regards to gamplay.
You are correct about one thing though, games with gimmicks like this UI aren't for eveyone.
The gaming graveyard is chock full of neato games that a small percentage of people thought "Gee, this is SUPER cool UI and aiming feature and requires a lot of skill to play. I don't understand why our game is failing.. if people just weren't so stupid they'd see it's really a great game but not for everyone. But people just want to have skills labeled on the hotbar or they quit... morons!"
We will know in a year's time how this one with it's cool feature of "hide and go click" works out.
Out of everything I've posted this is your major gripe.
In the end none of it matters because you don't utilize them for anything of purpose in CO, you run around and PvE, or PvP with your other heroes who mainly make premade builds and change them with every patch because you can respec whatever you want whenever you want with no consequence.
The game mechanics are much deeper then many people seem to be giving them credit for. Its just not the boring auto attack combat CO decided to implement. The combat isn't for everyone, but just because people can't understand it or aren't good at it, doesn't mean it isn't deep.
Combat doesn't have to be very "deep" either when its skill based.
It matters if someone is into themes, which most players are. They spend loads of time in the character creation making a particular toon to play. Travel powers lend to that feel of environment and developers know this. Otherwise, you'd have just one form of travel for everyone and they'd focus on gameplay. Speaking of which...
Deep is one person's opinion as you showed. You're even asking what "deep" really means. Rest assured and semantics aside, I think most people in general know what deep means in regards to gamplay.
You are correct about one thing though, games with gimmicks like this UI aren't for eveyone.
The gaming graveyard is chock full of neato games that a small percentage of people thought "Gee, this is SUPER cool UI and aiming feature and requires a lot of skill to play. I don't understand why our game is failing.. if people just weren't so stupid they'd see it's really a great game but not for everyone. But people just want to have skills labeled on the hotbar or they quit... morons!"
We will know in a year's time how this one with it's cool feature of "hide and go click" works out.
I suppose we will. I can already tell you though, this game will do much better than CO. It may not stand up to a powerhouse like SWTOR, but this will become the dominant game in the super hero subgenre. We can revisit this 6 months after release and see.
Out of everything I've posted this is your major gripe.
In the end none of it matters because you don't utilize them for anything of purpose in CO, you run around and PvE, or PvP with your other heroes who mainly make premade builds and change them with every patch because you can respec whatever you want whenever you want with no consequence.
The game mechanics are much deeper then many people seem to be giving them credit for. Its just not the boring auto attack combat CO decided to implement. The combat isn't for everyone, but just because people can't understand it or aren't good at it, doesn't mean it isn't deep.
Combat doesn't have to be very "deep" either when its skill based.
It matters if someone is into themes, which most players are. They spend loads of time in the character creation making a particular toon to play. Travel powers lend to that feel of environment and developers know this. Otherwise, you'd have just one form of travel for everyone and they'd focus on gameplay. Speaking of which...
Deep is one person's opinion as you showed. You're even asking what "deep" really means. Rest assured and semantics aside, I think most people in general know what deep means in regards to gamplay.
You are correct about one thing though, games with gimmicks like this UI aren't for eveyone.
The gaming graveyard is chock full of neato games that a small percentage of people thought "Gee, this is SUPER cool UI and aiming feature and requires a lot of skill to play. I don't understand why our game is failing.. if people just weren't so stupid they'd see it's really a great game but not for everyone. But people just want to have skills labeled on the hotbar or they quit... morons!"
We will know in a year's time how this one with it's cool feature of "hide and go click" works out.
I suppose we will. I can already tell you though, this game will do much better than CO. It may not stand up to a powerhouse like SWTOR, but this will become the dominant game in the super hero subgenre. We can revisit this 6 months after release and see.
Doing better than CO is damning with faint praise.
I also don't care for the DCOA UI. Didn't like the clickety click mouse manipulation aspect of so many of the powers. Though that is a personal call. Still, the interface is enough to make me pretty much write off playing the game.
Also not so enthused with the supposed humor combined with the over the top Mwaaahaaaha of the villains. I mean, The Flash making a 'Back in a Flash' joke? C'mon.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
Perhaps we have different ideas about what we expect from a Supers MMO? This may answer the difference of opinion in the dumbed down / casual debate. I come from a CoX background, I expect a Supers MMO to have a depth at least as good as that MMO. If I came from a CO background my standards would not be as high, as CO is a more casual game.
I never play a MMO before launch, that just is asking for ennui to hit you from day one. This may well turn out to be a more casual bash, but a far superior one to CO which is fine but then it should be marketed as such.
Out of everything I've posted this is your major gripe.
In the end none of it matters because you don't utilize them for anything of purpose in CO, you run around and PvE, or PvP with your other heroes who mainly make premade builds and change them with every patch because you can respec whatever you want whenever you want with no consequence.
The game mechanics are much deeper then many people seem to be giving them credit for. Its just not the boring auto attack combat CO decided to implement. The combat isn't for everyone, but just because people can't understand it or aren't good at it, doesn't mean it isn't deep.
Combat doesn't have to be very "deep" either when its skill based.
It matters if someone is into themes, which most players are. They spend loads of time in the character creation making a particular toon to play. Travel powers lend to that feel of environment and developers know this. Otherwise, you'd have just one form of travel for everyone and they'd focus on gameplay. Speaking of which...
Deep is one person's opinion as you showed. You're even asking what "deep" really means. Rest assured and semantics aside, I think most people in general know what deep means in regards to gamplay.
You are correct about one thing though, games with gimmicks like this UI aren't for eveyone.
The gaming graveyard is chock full of neato games that a small percentage of people thought "Gee, this is SUPER cool UI and aiming feature and requires a lot of skill to play. I don't understand why our game is failing.. if people just weren't so stupid they'd see it's really a great game but not for everyone. But people just want to have skills labeled on the hotbar or they quit... morons!"
We will know in a year's time how this one with it's cool feature of "hide and go click" works out.
I suppose we will. I can already tell you though, this game will do much better than CO. It may not stand up to a powerhouse like SWTOR, but this will become the dominant game in the super hero subgenre. We can revisit this 6 months after release and see.
Doing better than CO is damning with faint praise.
I also don't care for the DCOA UI. Didn't like the clickety click mouse manipulation aspect of so many of the powers. Though that is a personal call. Still, the interface is enough to make me pretty much write off playing the game.
Also not so enthused with the supposed humor combined with the over the top Mwaaahaaaha of the villains. I mean, The Flash making a 'Back in a Flash' joke? C'mon.
I guess you missed the part where the game was based of a comic book property. It is going to have its over the top and stupid jokes. I mean the Flash makes stupid jokes all the time some funny some not so much it is what the character does. Over the top is comic books. I mean how more over the top can you get than Superman?
"You think this "A" stands for France?" Captain America
I played in the beta a bit, not a bad game but by level 9 or so I was so bored that I logged out and never went back, They got a good concept but the combat is far to overly repetive, and the missions got boring really quick since its essentally the same stuff over and over. Mainly it was the bland combat system that turned me off to the game.
"An MMORPG could be completely diffirent from WoW. Just look at games like Dofus, Wizard101 or EVE. But as it is, most of the Western MMOs are trying to succeed by out-WoWing WoW. It's like an army of 10 sports games made about same sports, and barely none about other sports. WoW clone is an accurate description of those games, it manages to convey much information with only two words." -Poster on mmorpg.com
Rift: World of Warcraft clone #9321 Nothing special to see here move along.
3 Travel powers? Acrobatics has 2 different modes of travel built in, super speed has speed force to increase the speed by double and so does flight. You can run up walls with super speed, can't do that in CO or CoX. You can cling to walls, use zip lines, double jump, the system is more robust mechanically then CoX or CO could dream of ever making.
This is so disengenious, it's not even funny.
You're really trying to defend the travel powers in DCUO vs Champions?
Champions Travel Powers:
?Flight - The standard for comparison.
?Superspeed - Fastest travel power; restricted to ground movement.
?Teleportation - Only inertia-free travel power; requires constant reactivation.
?Swinging - Least precise, most engaging; requires constant reactivation.
?Jet Boots - Fastest flight; slowest acceleration, no jetpack option.
?Fire Flight - Flight, but with colored flame aura.
?Earth Flight - Flight, but with a chunk of whatever you were standing on.
?Super Jump - Slow walking, fast and high jumping; can't reach all rooftops.
?Acrobatics - Run fast, jump high; not as fast or as high as Super Speed or Super Jump.
?Ice Slide - Faster and harder to corner than flight; sinks downwards.
?Tunneling - Avoid enemies - and lofty places.
?Rocket Jump - Superjump, now with more science.
?Hover Disk - Fast, flying, color options; no shape options, worst cornering.
And they had all those travel powers at launch as far as I remember.
The game mechanics in this game aren't that deep. They aren't bad but seriuosly friend.. you know they aren't deep at all as a MMO player.
Out of everything I've posted this is your major gripe.
Earth flight is almost the exact same as ice slide, which is the same as fire flight, which is the same as flight which is the same as hover disk. The nuances don't even matter, its pretty much all the same mode of travel, you just have to decide if you want to gimp your character or not. Aside from the fact that all they are are travel powers, and the only one that actually has any sort of functionality is teleportation because you can get away when you're in the middle of battle, everything else is pretty much just flash with nothing to show for it.
In the end none of it matters because you don't utilize them for anything of purpose in CO, you run around and PvE, or PvP with your other heroes who mainly make premade builds and change them with every patch because you can respec whatever you want whenever you want with no consequence.
The game mechanics are much deeper then many people seem to be giving them credit for. Its just not the boring auto attack combat CO decided to implement. The combat isn't for everyone, but just because people can't understand it or aren't good at it, doesn't mean it isn't deep.
Combat doesn't have to be very "deep" either when its skill based. If by "deep" as an MMO player you mean getting 20 skills on a bunch of bars and sitting there hitting one key after another, being stuck in a particular role, and having gear and predetermined abilities mean more than player skill, then this non-deep kind of combat is quite a breath of fresh air.
While SOE has plenty of bugs to take care of before launch, they've nailed the basic framework. Costume pieces and content is quite literally a trivial matter as these grow over time and are merely aesthetic. The underlying gameplay is what will keep much of the population and they've hit that out of the park.
Sorry to say, but saying that ice slide and earth flight are the same pretty much shown that either you have not use them or you are simplifying things a lot. Ice slide works with high inertia just like sort kind of skating that make them difficult to control a bit but more fun depending on the theme of your character.
While travel powers in DCUO has a tree of skills, they are actually powers that counts to the 6 power limits in the hotbar. So saying that in DCUO you can use your travel power to hit somebody is partially true but what it is not said is that you need to have the skill mapped into your hotbar like any other power. If we take them like that we could count lunges and some repels from CO and CoX are travel power skills, the main difference is that you can take them independent from your travel power.
About the CO autoattack, again I am not sure if you actually understand CO mechanics, energy builder as its name shown is for getting energy for the other powers. However, they are not the only source of energy in the game, depending on your build it can even be possible to neglect the energy builder in most combats. So the main difference is that I use energy builder in worst cases about 40%(low levels), most cases at high level 10-15% of the time. While in DCUO you have to use weapons about 70% of the time.
I think you said that weapons are the bread and butter of DCUO, which I agree but the problem is that they are mostly better than powers and are required to generate energy. So Weapons >>> Powers which in imho is kind of weird for a superhero mmo. I have said many times that I like the idea of powers and weapons separated but they are still indeed linked but not complementary since weapons don't cost energy, produce energy so powers are dependant on them and they are pretty powerful.
DCUO has great qualities but it is not really superior to either CO or CoX, since they went for a completely different crowd.
I have tried a bit ice and concentrating on fire at this point, which set do you think is the deepest one? and which weapon would be good for it. I am all for trying it, so I might change my current perception on DCUO.
It is a fun game but The PC version is so delayed, laggy, glitch, world down glitch-fun and occasional random crash here n there but other then that i like it a lot
It is a fun game but The PC version is so delayed, laggy, glitch, world down glitch-fun and occasional random crash here n there but other then that i like it a lot
I don't believe the PC version was anymore delayed than the PS3 version. I also don't know about "so delayed". They have only delayed it once. They only set one date and then delayed that date.
"You think this "A" stands for France?" Captain America
There is no lack of content .. jeez, im no fan of current DCO (yes im in beta) but holy crap, who says there is lack of content is likely attact by servere blindness.
I got my char up to lvl 20 (currect server cap) and have done over 130 mission in the past 3 days :P
you start whit one contact..you do missions , you turn them in. (your lvl 8-+ now) hey look..in the journal more mission..however next missions of Lex are lvl 12..hmm im level 8..lets go do a few for circle..those are lvl 5-8 and lets do the other contact also..
there done..all level 5-8 missions done, crap! im level 14 now! let do lex again.. or shall i do the instances ? (allerts/pvp)
perhaps a little sightseeing tour mission..theya re silly but give easy xp..or perhaps one of the many race tracks , those have great xp.
serious guys. the game has some mayor flaws in my few but content is not one of them at all. and when was the last game you ever worked for a single contact/quest giver?
the idea is you do them all, so your renown whit those fractions goos up. that will enable you later in the game to buy all ionic armor sets and mix match those to your own likening whit the more regulair sets and pieces.
its a great MMOAG (massive multi online action game) they jsut gota work on the UI (but its clear its a work in progress) and a few other things but its a beta.. the bank action house, tailor .. they all aint even in game yet. there are bugs random wierdness.
my main iseu is it being a MMOAG and not a MMORPG sofar, no social gameplay at all , nearly everyting is soloable (expect openworld bosses) once I played the game a day I made a new toon and since then have not died a single time in any of the instanced missions till now (lvl20) and got the "hard" feats - means you do use any special "charge or ionic powers" during the mission to defeat it. - on all but one mission..darn misclick :P
People will be suprided how much fun this game really is. Infact it is so much fun I'm hoping Guild Wars 2 will be delayed so I can play more DCUO. I know it is odd for me to say that but the game is just way too much fun and that is a good thing. The game has its flaws(minor ones) but there is nothing that they can't fix.
Comments
Have you played it ? if not then you should try it. It is more challenging than WoW and most casual mmos I have played or tried.
Well idk i guess as far as the class associations and what they do... You can make it , tank, dps , healer. Ive actually tanked.. in my Parties...
Its actualy stops everyone from dieing guys.... its crazy
The system is a lot deeper than that and a simple answer would be “I’m not specced that way”. When you queue for a alert mission you specify the role you want to play so you won’t end up being asked to tank a pickup mission unless you clicked that as the role you wanted to play. Same for healers and controllers. Also you are putting points you earn into one of two power sets, or iconic powers (combat combos and travel powers are a separate pool) so there isn’t a shortage of alternative options if you pick fire/ice but don’t want to tank. You just end up with a role that you never switch to. There do seem to be enough points awarded that you could build multiple roles well although gear might need to be switched around somewhat. That’s not really a bad thing either as it gives everyone the ability to play more than one role as needed. I guess the alternative is your group stops mid way though a mission and disbands because the tank decided to afk for a hour to run to the store and get some cigarettes.
I went a little off-subject there.
I meant to say that if you are anything but a Fire or Ice based toon, you are NOT tanking. They did not design this game with that in mind specifically.
If you want to play a healer but like to be a Mental or Gadget toon, you're not going to be able to do it, no matter how you spec. You don't have heals.
The system has nice flexibility WITHIN it's tree for sure, but it's extremely limited to what you are going to do based on what type of base power you choose.
You simply cannot play a tank as a Sorcery, Gadget or things like that. Your ONLY choices are Fire or Ice.
Two choices.
"TO MICHAEL!"
Game looks fantastic, and actually runs without a hitch. Something that no other MMO that looks this good has pulled off. Of course that's just my experience, but my computer hasn't been high end since 08', and it runs this game maxxed out without a drop in framerates as of yet. Biggest concern would be a lack of non-combat activities. There's no crafting, no secret identities, no player housing, no mini-games, etc. Not a big deal for those who just want to hop in and beat up on some villians/heroes, but for those looking for depth may find themselves walking away too soon.
However, will have to see at what rate they add things in after release. They need to get the other three power sets in ASAP for example. The groundwork for a very successful launch is there however, and it's SOE, they're very unlikely to have server shakeups on launch day. At least assuming they've learned from their mistakes in the past.
yes i am playing it for almost 2 weeks. So i can tell you with surety that its not challenging more or less than WOW even though i don't know why are you even comparing two completely different MMOS.
Bite Me
As compared to what? Even CO doesn’t let you pick your role and powers separately. Sure you could spread your points out among different power lines in CO but that’s just going to hurt you as you need most of your points in one line to get to the most powerful abilities and that largely defines a fixed role/play style. Yes, your power set choice defines what roles you have access to (there are three per power) but depending on the role you are currently in (you can switch anytime out of combat) your powers change behavior somewhat. So if you are in a damage role your powers take on extra damage properties while if you in a tank role they have some threat or buffing/healing abilities. On top of that you have separate trees for Iconic powers, travel powers, and your weapon style that add a lot of customization and flavor to your toon. On first glance when I looked at it my first thought was “this is way more limiting then something like CO” but after playing with it for awhile I don’t think that’s the case. By separating your weapon style and power set they created a huge variety of choices for different play styles, and if you add on top of that travel and iconic powers then the choices facing a character becomes huge.
I do have a few criticism of the game but the way they designed powers and roles isn’t one of them.
Over exaggeration, plain and simple. You don't want a player being forced into a role they don't know how to play. They've increased the difficulty quite a bit in the last patch, even for some basic mobs. People need to play with what they are comfortable with and what they can play well and coordinate with the rest of the group to be successful. 4 Damage dealers can pass the Oolong alert, even with the crazy mini-bots in their current state. Tactics and skill beat roles and gear in this game, every time, hands down. Thats why my level 5 single bladed nature user I created last night could take out level 18s on the PvP server, 1 on 1.
This isn't a click to activate game, and it was never meant to be, You don't click your abilities in action games, you click abilities in standard MMOs. What ability do you have on the 9 key? You only have 8 abilities! 6 abilities, one consumable, and 1 trinket. .... So thats somewhat questionable right there.
3 Travel powers? Acrobatics has 2 different modes of travel built in, super speed has speed force to increase the speed by double and so does flight. You can run up walls with super speed, can't do that in CO or CoX. You can cling to walls, use zip lines, double jump, the system is more robust mechanically then CoX or CO could dream of ever making.
This is an ACTION game not an FPS. I LOVE global agenda, I played it for months non-stop, this combat system gives me the same rush I get when I played GA. Its rare to find someone in game right now that truly understands the combat, how combos work, and what you are supposed to do in certain situations.
Ranged players who know how to play ranged, like myself, know how to gain range and what abilities to use. Bad players shouldn't be the constant when deciding how complex or varied this games combat is.
Saying that is not more or less challenging than WoW is completely inaccurate. I'm not quite sure what you have been playing for the past 2 weeks then.
Nothing.
I'm not comparing this two power limitation system for tanking or healing to anything above. To make an obsevation you don't really always have to say "WoW did this but this doesn't".
Earlier I was making a comparison with CO about something else, but this is just my personal bugaboo about only Fire and Ice trees tanking, this isn't a comparison.
I just think it's VERY LIMITING that with a universe as HUGE as DC is... you have only TWO trees to tank with; Fire and Ice given the resources they had to work with.
Sometimes, you don't need a term paper to list all the cons vs another game. But if truth be told on a case by case basis, other than the IP I think Champions Online did a better job with just about everything including character customization and skillsets and UI. And that's Cryptic we're talking about.
This game's UI is so clumsy it's not funny. You end up pushing so many wrong buttons and constatly looking down it's just crazy because you can't even look down and mouse over what skill is sitting on your hotbar. I don't think I've ever had to hit my ESC key this much in a MMO just to reset everything. It's just short of that bungling FFXIV UI for selecting skills.
I'm not sure why people have to devote brain cells to remembering what every single skill does on your hotbar, when in any other MMO you can simply MOUSE over it to read it or just read it. It's sad that in a MMO in this day and age, you have to remember that to cast "Fireball", you make two right mouse clicks and one tug on the right ear and for "Fire Whirlwhirl" its three Clydesdale horsestomps, two left button clicks and a partridge in a peartree.
The game has many good points, but it's seems less of a MMO than a regular console game... maybe that's what they intended though so idk. But it's still beta so we'll see.
"TO MICHAEL!"
You're really trying to defend the travel powers in DCUO vs Champions?
Champions Travel Powers:
?Flight - The standard for comparison.
?Superspeed - Fastest travel power; restricted to ground movement.
?Teleportation - Only inertia-free travel power; requires constant reactivation.
?Swinging - Least precise, most engaging; requires constant reactivation.
?Jet Boots - Fastest flight; slowest acceleration, no jetpack option.
?Fire Flight - Flight, but with colored flame aura.
?Earth Flight - Flight, but with a chunk of whatever you were standing on.
?Super Jump - Slow walking, fast and high jumping; can't reach all rooftops.
?Acrobatics - Run fast, jump high; not as fast or as high as Super Speed or Super Jump.
?Ice Slide - Faster and harder to corner than flight; sinks downwards.
?Tunneling - Avoid enemies - and lofty places.
?Rocket Jump - Superjump, now with more science.
?Hover Disk - Fast, flying, color options; no shape options, worst cornering.
And they had all those travel powers at launch as far as I remember.
The game mechanics in this game aren't that deep. They aren't bad but seriuosly friend.. you know they aren't deep at all as a MMO player.
"TO MICHAEL!"
Why the hell you keep comparing this to WOW? they have nothing in common. Its been 2 days i have been playing DCUO and i am lvl 10 and still have to see anything challenging about it. Its a nice casual game and i am definitely going to buy it but from where does WOW keep coming in the discussion?
Who could have thought that WOW could bring super power like USA to its knees?
Originally posted by Arcken
To put it in a nutshell, our society is about to hit the fan, grades are dropping, obesity is going up,childhood the USA is going to lose its super power status before too long, but hey, as long as we have a cheap method to babysit our kids, all will be well no?
Im picking on WoW btw because its the beast that made all of this possible
Out of everything I've posted this is your major gripe.
Earth flight is almost the exact same as ice slide, which is the same as fire flight, which is the same as flight which is the same as hover disk. The nuances don't even matter, its pretty much all the same mode of travel, you just have to decide if you want to gimp your character or not. Aside from the fact that all they are are travel powers, and the only one that actually has any sort of functionality is teleportation because you can get away when you're in the middle of battle, everything else is pretty much just flash with nothing to show for it.
In the end none of it matters because you don't utilize them for anything of purpose in CO, you run around and PvE, or PvP with your other heroes who mainly make premade builds and change them with every patch because you can respec whatever you want whenever you want with no consequence.
The game mechanics are much deeper then many people seem to be giving them credit for. Its just not the boring auto attack combat CO decided to implement. The combat isn't for everyone, but just because people can't understand it or aren't good at it, doesn't mean it isn't deep.
Combat doesn't have to be very "deep" either when its skill based. If by "deep" as an MMO player you mean getting 20 skills on a bunch of bars and sitting there hitting one key after another, being stuck in a particular role, and having gear and predetermined abilities mean more than player skill, then this non-deep kind of combat is quite a breath of fresh air.
While SOE has plenty of bugs to take care of before launch, they've nailed the basic framework. Costume pieces and content is quite literally a trivial matter as these grow over time and are merely aesthetic. The underlying gameplay is what will keep much of the population and they've hit that out of the park.
It matters if someone is into themes, which most players are. They spend loads of time in the character creation making a particular toon to play. Travel powers lend to that feel of environment and developers know this. Otherwise, you'd have just one form of travel for everyone and they'd focus on gameplay. Speaking of which...
Deep is one person's opinion as you showed. You're even asking what "deep" really means. Rest assured and semantics aside, I think most people in general know what deep means in regards to gamplay.
You are correct about one thing though, games with gimmicks like this UI aren't for eveyone.
The gaming graveyard is chock full of neato games that a small percentage of people thought "Gee, this is SUPER cool UI and aiming feature and requires a lot of skill to play. I don't understand why our game is failing.. if people just weren't so stupid they'd see it's really a great game but not for everyone. But people just want to have skills labeled on the hotbar or they quit... morons!"
We will know in a year's time how this one with it's cool feature of "hide and go click" works out.
"TO MICHAEL!"
I suppose we will. I can already tell you though, this game will do much better than CO. It may not stand up to a powerhouse like SWTOR, but this will become the dominant game in the super hero subgenre. We can revisit this 6 months after release and see.
Doing better than CO is damning with faint praise.
I also don't care for the DCOA UI. Didn't like the clickety click mouse manipulation aspect of so many of the powers. Though that is a personal call. Still, the interface is enough to make me pretty much write off playing the game.
Also not so enthused with the supposed humor combined with the over the top Mwaaahaaaha of the villains. I mean, The Flash making a 'Back in a Flash' joke? C'mon.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
Perhaps we have different ideas about what we expect from a Supers MMO? This may answer the difference of opinion in the dumbed down / casual debate. I come from a CoX background, I expect a Supers MMO to have a depth at least as good as that MMO. If I came from a CO background my standards would not be as high, as CO is a more casual game.
I never play a MMO before launch, that just is asking for ennui to hit you from day one. This may well turn out to be a more casual bash, but a far superior one to CO which is fine but then it should be marketed as such.
I guess you missed the part where the game was based of a comic book property. It is going to have its over the top and stupid jokes. I mean the Flash makes stupid jokes all the time some funny some not so much it is what the character does. Over the top is comic books. I mean how more over the top can you get than Superman?
"You think this "A" stands for France?" Captain America
I played in the beta a bit, not a bad game but by level 9 or so I was so bored that I logged out and never went back, They got a good concept but the combat is far to overly repetive, and the missions got boring really quick since its essentally the same stuff over and over. Mainly it was the bland combat system that turned me off to the game.
"An MMORPG could be completely diffirent from WoW. Just look at games like Dofus, Wizard101 or EVE. But as it is, most of the Western MMOs are trying to succeed by out-WoWing WoW. It's like an army of 10 sports games made about same sports, and barely none about other sports. WoW clone is an accurate description of those games, it manages to convey much information with only two words."
-Poster on mmorpg.com
Rift: World of Warcraft clone #9321 Nothing special to see here move along.
Sorry to say, but saying that ice slide and earth flight are the same pretty much shown that either you have not use them or you are simplifying things a lot. Ice slide works with high inertia just like sort kind of skating that make them difficult to control a bit but more fun depending on the theme of your character.
While travel powers in DCUO has a tree of skills, they are actually powers that counts to the 6 power limits in the hotbar. So saying that in DCUO you can use your travel power to hit somebody is partially true but what it is not said is that you need to have the skill mapped into your hotbar like any other power. If we take them like that we could count lunges and some repels from CO and CoX are travel power skills, the main difference is that you can take them independent from your travel power.
About the CO autoattack, again I am not sure if you actually understand CO mechanics, energy builder as its name shown is for getting energy for the other powers. However, they are not the only source of energy in the game, depending on your build it can even be possible to neglect the energy builder in most combats. So the main difference is that I use energy builder in worst cases about 40%(low levels), most cases at high level 10-15% of the time. While in DCUO you have to use weapons about 70% of the time.
I think you said that weapons are the bread and butter of DCUO, which I agree but the problem is that they are mostly better than powers and are required to generate energy. So Weapons >>> Powers which in imho is kind of weird for a superhero mmo. I have said many times that I like the idea of powers and weapons separated but they are still indeed linked but not complementary since weapons don't cost energy, produce energy so powers are dependant on them and they are pretty powerful.
DCUO has great qualities but it is not really superior to either CO or CoX, since they went for a completely different crowd.
I have tried a bit ice and concentrating on fire at this point, which set do you think is the deepest one? and which weapon would be good for it. I am all for trying it, so I might change my current perception on DCUO.
It is a fun game but The PC version is so delayed, laggy, glitch, world down glitch-fun and occasional random crash here n there but other then that i like it a lot
I don't believe the PC version was anymore delayed than the PS3 version. I also don't know about "so delayed". They have only delayed it once. They only set one date and then delayed that date.
"You think this "A" stands for France?" Captain America
There is no lack of content .. jeez, im no fan of current DCO (yes im in beta) but holy crap, who says there is lack of content is likely attact by servere blindness.
I got my char up to lvl 20 (currect server cap) and have done over 130 mission in the past 3 days :P
you start whit one contact..you do missions , you turn them in. (your lvl 8-+ now) hey look..in the journal more mission..however next missions of Lex are lvl 12..hmm im level 8..lets go do a few for circle..those are lvl 5-8 and lets do the other contact also..
there done..all level 5-8 missions done, crap! im level 14 now! let do lex again.. or shall i do the instances ? (allerts/pvp)
perhaps a little sightseeing tour mission..theya re silly but give easy xp..or perhaps one of the many race tracks , those have great xp.
serious guys. the game has some mayor flaws in my few but content is not one of them at all. and when was the last game you ever worked for a single contact/quest giver?
the idea is you do them all, so your renown whit those fractions goos up. that will enable you later in the game to buy all ionic armor sets and mix match those to your own likening whit the more regulair sets and pieces.
its a great MMOAG (massive multi online action game) they jsut gota work on the UI (but its clear its a work in progress) and a few other things but its a beta.. the bank action house, tailor .. they all aint even in game yet. there are bugs random wierdness.
my main iseu is it being a MMOAG and not a MMORPG sofar, no social gameplay at all , nearly everyting is soloable (expect openworld bosses) once I played the game a day I made a new toon and since then have not died a single time in any of the instanced missions till now (lvl20) and got the "hard" feats - means you do use any special "charge or ionic powers" during the mission to defeat it. - on all but one mission..darn misclick :P
People will be suprided how much fun this game really is. Infact it is so much fun I'm hoping Guild Wars 2 will be delayed so I can play more DCUO. I know it is odd for me to say that but the game is just way too much fun and that is a good thing. The game has its flaws(minor ones) but there is nothing that they can't fix.