You can't log in and start PvPing. You can log in, join a corp, and take part in zerg PvP where you're an insignificant factor. You DEFINITELY can't be a pirate as you will just get creamed. You can be a trader, sure, but not without heavy Corp support holding your hand with access to materials. Being a miner sounds fun... lol. PvE?
Within 3 days of starting eve i was pirating people with success. Started training skills, can fliped in a belt and waited.
Alternatively, I could of pve'd, traded, or what ever i wanted to do providing i abide by the rule "i crawl before i walk"
I don't understand, you want to be a "hero" as soon as you login?
As for WoW, imo i think some games "do it better" but just dont have the numbers because they are over shadowed by WoW. That said yes it does have alot of "Polish"
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
Trialing Eve atm I can honestly say that whole "In Eve you can do whatever you want from the start" is quite simply silly.
You can't log in and start PvPing. You can log in, join a corp, and take part in zerg PvP where you're an insignificant factor. You DEFINITELY can't be a pirate as you will just get creamed. You can be a trader, sure, but not without heavy Corp support holding your hand with access to materials. Being a miner sounds fun... lol. PvE? Come on...
I've been logging into this Eve trial for over a week now and I've yet to 'group' with anyone. This is probably like the 3rd or 4th time I've trialed this game. I joined a Corp, haven't really seen anyone from it on, much less interacted with anyone. I get in there and fly around solo. I just started getting into exploration and hopefully that will tickle my interest, but at the moment it's waning. It's starting to feel more like a screensaver than an MMO.
The only thing I'm really enjoying at this point is the slow pace allows me to text my girl at will.
Just to be clear I've played WoW but I haven't played it in months. I have no intention of getting Cata. I don't even really 'like' the game, but I can recognize that they're doing something right.
Actualy there is a video on youtube done by two ppl who took I guess 2 days old characters with Rifters (frigate, smallest ship what you can use for pvp) and they succesfuly did some PvP, ofc if you are at big fight you are just a small part of it but insignificant factor? Small ships are using for warp disruptors and web so your enemy cant warp away and he cant run away so even like that you can be significant factor. You can be a pirate - join pirate corporation and start ganking with em.
Trader in EvE is a guy who simply buy low price product and sell it somewhere else with high price - so you can do it from start (after getting transport ship after tutorial) you are just not making so much money on it. Miner.. yea for some ppl most boring I actualy liked it and there are ppl who do it whole time. PvE? Yea there is even PvE in EvE and now after new update Sansha forces are coming - more PvE.
Thing about noone in corp.. simple answer, you joined wrong corp.
Blizz is doing something right ofc but.. you think CCP not? Player senat is realy great idea, I think no other game has that. (and its realy only an example of tons of other things)
Since you told your story in EvE let me tell mine. After I completed a tutorials I started to mine and trade cause I wanted to be peaceful man here, joined a corporation which was in wormhole and without war so I have freedom in high sector in safe place. Than my corp joined alliance - so I started to train PvP skills because we were at war now and I moved to 0.0 sector where Im not safe at all, I already did some PvP (ofc I died here because Im noob in EvE - you always die if you are new in game). After few days at this alliance I even participated in battle where were around 500+ ppl. Almost always is something happening around - yea sometimes I cant join the operations because of my lame ships and skills - like in every other MMO. But mostly I can join even with my lame skills and ships.
P.S. I understand some ppl dont like EvE because its too slow, they dont like sci-fi, you dont have your "avatar" just a ship etc. But EvE just fits best for MMO (massive multiplayer and online)- which game has all ppl on one server (and its not because they have so low number of ppl). And you cant be a "crafter" from start, thats true.
Played: Lineage 2,Guild Wars 1 and 2, Age of Conan, Ragnarok Online, LOTRO, World of Warcraft, League of Legends, EvE online Tried: KAL Online, Face of Mankind, ROSE online Playing: CS:GO
Thinking through the list of games, I think the key successes of WOW are:
PVP doesn't revolve around zerging. This makes my decisions important.
You're rewarded for playing. (Sandboxes often reward you for AFKing in front of ore nodes. Some games even reward you with progression regardless of whether you log in or not.) This makes my decisions important.
Combat involves many distinct abilities, and CC isn't overpowered. With combat being a huge part of so many games, if the game of combat isn't fun, the MMORPG isn't either.
Unnecessary timesinks are reduced or eliminated.
In addition to solid technical implementation.
I actualy think that rewards are bad thing in WoW. Because its almost like work, you do this and you get "payed". Ofc that getting rewards is ok and people love when they get stuff, but also makes them kinda greedy. I met one guy in other MMO who told me that PvP in that game suck because there is no reward in it - so no point of playing the PvP, but.. how about fun?
From my point of view ppl who defend WoW mostly talk about why they love WoW, but for me is discussion about MMOs more about finding a game which realy fits to MMORPG standart. What I mean is - massive multiplayer roley playing game. For me always MMOs are kinda a try of companies make online world - but shouldnt be that world like real world? I mean ofc we are tired of real world thats why we play games but also we would like to run from this world to another. And WoW doesnt feel to me like "real" world. All things which are here are mostly separate. And yea if you are doing quests you can also mine around or do open pvp but.. Its realy not it. RPGs are always trying to impress you by living world most similar to real one - for ex. Oblivion. Thats why I think Blizz is so successful because they do mostly simple games where you can relax by doing simple things and turn your brain off (kinda). Those games are just not too complicated. WoW is like Counter Strike of MMOs.
I understand why WoW has so many players playing the game, but for me is for years best online games EvE online - player senat, huge world on one server, so many possibilites and things you wouldnt even imagine it could be there - it just feel like real sci-fi online world.
All games offer rewards. WOW just offers them with a superior cadence and structure. Is this similar to "work"? Sure, if you want to look at it that way. But no game gets away from that (and certainly not EVE.) All games have action-reward loops.
Regarding the player complaining about PVP rewards, I'm sure if the game in question had fun PVP that he wouldn't have complained (or at least his complaint would be tempered by the fact that he continued playing the game.) Even fun PVP games can be made more fun with the right rewards.
Regarding paragraph 2, of course WOW players will mostly talk about why they love WOW, and neglect to mention whether it fits to some definition of a "MMORPG standard". If a game is fun and lovable, what else matters? Nothing.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
I joined a Corp, haven't really seen anyone from it on, much less interacted with anyone. I get in there and fly around solo. I just started getting into exploration and hopefully that will tickle my interest, but at the moment it's waning. It's starting to feel more like a screensaver than an MMO.
The only thing I'm really enjoying at this point is the slow pace allows me to text my girl at will.
Just to be clear I've played WoW but I haven't played it in months. I have no intention of getting Cata. I don't even really 'like' the game, but I can recognize that they're doing something right.
In any game, no matter what it is, if you join a guild/clan/corp/hootenanny, what have you nad you don't see anyone for days then that MUST be a sure sign you've joined the wrong group of people.
don't blame the game for that.
Otherwise, "yeah" even if you aren't a wow player and you try the game, you can see that they are successful at what they do..
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Thinking through the list of games, I think the key successes of WOW are:
PVP doesn't revolve around zerging. This makes my decisions important.
You're rewarded for playing. (Sandboxes often reward you for AFKing in front of ore nodes. Some games even reward you with progression regardless of whether you log in or not.) This makes my decisions important.
Combat involves many distinct abilities, and CC isn't overpowered. With combat being a huge part of so many games, if the game of combat isn't fun, the MMORPG isn't either.
Unnecessary timesinks are reduced or eliminated.
In addition to solid technical implementation.
I actualy think that rewards are bad thing in WoW. Because its almost like work, you do this and you get "payed". Ofc that getting rewards is ok and people love when they get stuff, but also makes them kinda greedy. I met one guy in other MMO who told me that PvP in that game suck because there is no reward in it - so no point of playing the PvP, but.. how about fun?
From my point of view ppl who defend WoW mostly talk about why they love WoW, but for me is discussion about MMOs more about finding a game which realy fits to MMORPG standart. What I mean is - massive multiplayer roley playing game. For me always MMOs are kinda a try of companies make online world - but shouldnt be that world like real world? I mean ofc we are tired of real world thats why we play games but also we would like to run from this world to another. And WoW doesnt feel to me like "real" world. All things which are here are mostly separate. And yea if you are doing quests you can also mine around or do open pvp but.. Its realy not it. RPGs are always trying to impress you by living world most similar to real one - for ex. Oblivion. Thats why I think Blizz is so successful because they do mostly simple games where you can relax by doing simple things and turn your brain off (kinda). Those games are just not too complicated. WoW is like Counter Strike of MMOs.
I understand why WoW has so many players playing the game, but for me is for years best online games EvE online - player senat, huge world on one server, so many possibilites and things you wouldnt even imagine it could be there - it just feel like real sci-fi online world.
All games offer rewards. WOW just offers them with a superior cadence and structure. Is this similar to "work"? Sure, if you want to look at it that way. But no game gets away from that (and certainly not EVE.) All games have action-reward loops.
Regarding the player complaining about PVP rewards, I'm sure if the game in question had fun PVP that he wouldn't have complained (or at least his complaint would be tempered by the fact that he continued playing the game.) Even fun PVP games can be made more fun with the right rewards.
Regarding paragraph 2, of course WOW players will mostly talk about why they love WOW, and neglect to mention whether it fits to some definition of a "MMORPG standard". If a game is fun and lovable, what else matters? Nothing.
Ok lets take it from another view. I realy like Nirvana and I realy dont think so they are better musicians than Mozart or Vivaldi even if I love em more and I listen to it way more. Thats what I mean, objectivity.
And I wanted from ppl to try to compare WoW, noone did that at this topic so far, so there is what I meant for ex.
WoW vs. hmm, Lineage 2
WoW is more focused on solo gaming as you proceed to maximum level, but Lineage is more group thing, yes you can solo too you just find mobs easy for you to kill but in group there is always a benefit in Lineage. On the other hand Lineage is mostly grind, only few quests but WoW is quest based leveling process which makes it kinda more interesting sometimes, but as we speak about MMO I think its realy about multiplayer so Lineage wins this for me (but its realy close - WoW quests guide you mostly through whole world instead in Lineage you need to explore - which has also fun in that), there is a lot of solo games out there so why pay for soloing monthly? But its true in WoW are group quests and I hope after Cata there is more of em but even so those group quests are not so played ppl skip them because even if you get better equipment from it you can get that equip few hours later so its no harm if you dont do that quest.
If we look at crafting WoW wins on whole line for me even if lineage has interesting crafting kinda but you need special character for it to make it, or spoiler for getting more materials - but also it makes ppl to party more because both of em are not so good fighters. But Wow provides a lot of crafting possibility of many different proffesions so you can choose what you like most. About endgame, Lineage 2 offers cool dungeons cool bosses but its different from WoW and I think both games has its specifis and actualy none is wining, WoW has raids, arenas, WG, open world pvp etc. Lineage 2 has freakin bosses and castle siege so both can provied different kind of fun. Also "secondary" profession like cooking, fishing etc. I think WoW wins this.
So what I think has lack at WoW is definitely group play and community for that. But its mostly because WoW dont teach you how to group play whole game till you reach maximum lvl where you are forced to group if you want to do raid and dungeons. Thats also why you see many ppl in PvP just running around without any reason and trying to kill everyone - means they lose cause they dont care about arena objective. Lineage has better group play even because you can take to dungeon as many ppl as you want but at WoW you have actual number of ppl who can enteter - or at least who should enter, its true you can always try it with lower number but not with higher.
EDIT: I havent been playing both games for some time so if something changed Im sorry about disinformations. And I was playing WoW on PvE server so there is ofc a possibility that ppl on PvP server are used to group more.
Played: Lineage 2,Guild Wars 1 and 2, Age of Conan, Ragnarok Online, LOTRO, World of Warcraft, League of Legends, EvE online Tried: KAL Online, Face of Mankind, ROSE online Playing: CS:GO
and most importantly: 87 normal and heroic dungeons and
80 + different Battlegrounds (since 1 month seperated into X1-X4, X5-X9 per bracket), Arena's, RvR zones, open wold PvP, Raids on cities etc...)
.
So what is interesting is that these 80+ dungeons and 80+ seperated Battlegrounds are available 24/24 Hr on every server and they are backed up by a ridiculously big open world with flying, underwater worlds, gathering professions and thousands of pieces to support it all.
It will take far more than 500 million dollars to come up with "MORE" than this.
and most importantly: 87 normal and heroic dungeons and
80 + different Battlegrounds (since 1 month seperated into X1-X4, X5-X9 per bracket), Arena's, RvR zones, open wold PvP, Raids on cities etc...)
.
So what is interesting is that these 80+ dungeons and 80+ seperated Battlegrounds are available 24/24 Hr on every server and they are backed up by a ridiculously big open world with flying, underwater worlds, gathering professions and thousands of pieces to support it all.
It will take far more than 500 million dollars to come up with "MORE" than this.
So that is putting "polished" in numbers.
Can you get some numbers of how much it launched with for comparison sakes?
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
and most importantly: 87 normal and heroic dungeons and
80 + different Battlegrounds (since 1 month seperated into X1-X4, X5-X9 per bracket), Arena's, RvR zones, open wold PvP, Raids on cities etc...)
.
So what is interesting is that these 80+ dungeons and 80+ seperated Battlegrounds are available 24/24 Hr on every server and they are backed up by a ridiculously big open world with flying, underwater worlds, gathering professions and thousands of pieces to support it all.
It will take far more than 500 million dollars to come up with "MORE" than this.
So that is putting "polished" in numbers.
Can you get some numbers of how much it launched with for comparison sakes?
While those numbers would be fun to see, I'm not sure how they change the fact that upcoming MMO titles have to compete with World of Warcraft how it is now, not with how it was in 2004.
and most importantly: 87 normal and heroic dungeons and
80 + different Battlegrounds (since 1 month seperated into X1-X4, X5-X9 per bracket), Arena's, RvR zones, open wold PvP, Raids on cities etc...)
.
So what is interesting is that these 80+ dungeons and 80+ seperated Battlegrounds are available 24/24 Hr on every server and they are backed up by a ridiculously big open world with flying, underwater worlds, gathering professions and thousands of pieces to support it all.
It will take far more than 500 million dollars to come up with "MORE" than this.
So that is putting "polished" in numbers.
Can you get some numbers of how much it launched with for comparison sakes?
While those numbers would be fun to see, I'm not sure how they change the fact that upcoming MMO titles have to compete with World of Warcraft how it is now, not with how it was in 2004.
That is indeed the problem: the longer it takes the more difficult it will get to even speak of a competition.
New people are not interested in paying more to get less.
Leave the room of traditional MMORPG's, that's the only way of making a new market.
I see the next big hit: Call of Duty franchize rapped up in an MMO world.
2011 will not bring anything over WOW. It will all be less instead of more.
MMO's and games in general are like foods they all have their own taste and people either like it or they dont i find debating games too be a utter waste of time because no matter how crappy or how good a game is their always gonna be a crowd they appeal too wow is just huge because well its easy on the computers its got an actual marketing team that actually does their jobs buy getting it out there too the public easy game too get sucked into too.
Polish in itself doesn't make for a good game. You can empty up your house from all useless furniture, decorations and clean it till is shines. It will look kinda nice and "perfect", but it will also lack character, warmth and homely feeling.
WoW isn't polished in the sense, that there would be a lot of interesting detail and surprises. Pretty much same experience in every area and dungeon with slight change of mechanics and models. They try to balance everything hard, and that takes the life out of the game. Professions are the same, classes have been homogenized more and more, dungeons are nerfed very quickly. Everyhting should be fluid and streamlined, seems to be their design idea, and it's quite boring, if you ask me.
Polish in itself doesn't make for a good game. You can empty up your house from all useless furniture, decorations and clean it till is shines. It will look kinda nice and "perfect", but it will also lack character, warmth and homely feeling.
WoW isn't polished in the sense, that there would be a lot of interesting detail and surprises. Pretty much same experience in every area and dungeon
No detail? Have you seen the circles of air coming out of the mouth of your avatar in Northrend? The thousands of living lvl 1 critters around you when you venture into the world?
15.000 recipies and every profession is the same.... WOW.
I'll try to remember it when I change my Holy paladin into a retribution or a tank-protection one. And that's just one class played completely different in 3 ways. I didn't know my rogue was a mage either.
The problem with you guys are that you lost all reference points when it comes to look at WOW objectively.
You don't see these thousands of different polished things above anymore.
That is also the reason why no other game can even please you anymore.
Because they simply lack "the multiple polished standards" you have been exposed to.
Guys even if I thank you for your discussion please stick to the question: Why you think WoW is best - compare to other mmo.
I mean I asked a lot of WoW players why and they couldnt tell me. So thats why Im asking, I kinda liked the game when I was playing but when I reached max lvl its just boring as hell for me, so im asking WoW lovers who realy love the game and tried any other - why is it better than the game(s) which they tried - even Ultima, Ragnarok online, EQ, Lineage, Warhammer, AoC, dont care which game(s) you choose.
I know it could be long post, but you also can try to do it in short way, I dont want to explain every single feature, just some major stuff - just do it your way.
ive played more than 30 mmorpgs, i actually have like 9 on my pc right now including wow, in my opinion wow is better than all other cos it has the most epic lore, the gameplay mechanics is plain smoother than all others ive tried. The way they mix and work all the classes with the variety of unique races is awesome and really good. The toonie graphic is really nice, it just fits perfectly with all aspects of this game. Many other games have smooth mechanics but lacks other important things like a good lore, good skill / craft / quest system. Some others have a lot of really good stuff like everquest, very varied, but you play EQ / EQ2 and you feel your missing something... like the game doesnt fulfill ur gamer needs. WoW does. Im not a wow fanboy, my favourite games are aoc and metin2, but WoW is just plain outstanding. Look at vindictus, i love its graphics and movement mechanics, but its hack n slash (not everyone likes that) and is too linear, no expansive world, mostly instanced.... stuff like that kills a game (lack of freedom). WoW is not perfect but to me its ranked 1st place as of today
ok... O K.. Its ENOUGH guys.. Realy.. Here is the thing. I would like to ask one simple question to all WoW L O V E R S on this forum. Tell me:
W H Y ???
is WoW so freakin awesome? Why is so best and so most polished than other games? Try to compare WoW to some other MMO game and tell me WHY is WoW better..
P.S. Please use something else than - Blizzard made it. or It has sooo many players. Thx.
well, for starters you could have named a few reasons that made you post that question, not?
anyway, here we go:
the gfx: surely not topnotch, but what blizzard is able to make of it can just be as breathtaking as some of the newest UT engine games anyway, we surely got a deficit of textures here.
the combat: i played alot of mmos, most with better visuals and some with a better approach to the (by far) outdated click your skill and see what happens scheme, BUT: there is not a single mmo out there that actually has a better approach, even the newer ones "just" use the old ideas (polished obviously, non the less the same idea of combat).
WoW's advantage here: they managed to have nearly no lag at all ingame, the combat and movements are fluent as hell, and maybe even abit more accurate than hell :P
the content: the quests, hard core inis, raids and world you get to see with the addon is reeeeaaally interesting, blizz advanced their old way of storytelling with nice little cut scenes, which (imo) spice up the whole adventure thingie abit more, you actually feel like being part of the stories now.
of corz, there is nothing "really" new to wow (maybe the phasing thingie), it's actually just what has been around for years, polished to the max. and even with a totaly new world and skill system it's still one of the most polished games i have seen so far.
if you think different, name some of your points :P
i played dark age, but it was outdated at a certain point.
i played neocron, but the playerbase kinda left *G*
i played planetside, but the gfx got old after a certain time
i tried conan, and i really liked it, but it was too pvp for most players :P
i tried aion, nice gfx but the gameplay is way too much grind.
i tried STO and had nothing to do after 2 weeks ^^
i played warhammer, and i liked it, but the circle zerg was too much for me in the end.
i tried APB, and it went down (comon baby, we are waiting for your return!)
i tried eve, but i am not that much into simulations (hell, nice game anyway)
i play global agenda... well.. i do.
and i played wow, stopped, came back for some moths, stopped again, and hell, i bought the 3rd expension now and SO FAR, i am still playing
wow is just a stable and fun game, and even tho it's a pve game in it's structure, i still wait for a better pvp game so far (okai GA has a better pvp system, but that's about it, without a bigger alliance you wont get to see much more of the game but battlegrounds / merc missions)
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
and most importantly: 87 normal and heroic dungeons and
80 + different Battlegrounds (since 1 month seperated into X1-X4, X5-X9 per bracket), Arena's, RvR zones, open wold PvP, Raids on cities etc...)
.
So what is interesting is that these 80+ dungeons and 80+ seperated Battlegrounds are available 24/24 Hr on every server and they are backed up by a ridiculously big open world with flying, underwater worlds, gathering professions and thousands of pieces to support it all.
It will take far more than 500 million dollars to come up with "MORE" than this.
So that is putting "polished" in numbers.
Numbers, cool, still no compare to other MMO.. Compare numbers with EQ 2, EvE, Lineage 2, AoC or even Runescape. I created this topic because I've never seen someone compare WoW to anything (at least not ppl who like WoW). Those ppl just say what is amazing at WoW, numbers from WoW, stuff from WoW, number of ppl playing WoW etc. But if some of em compared WoW to something it was like WoW is better than this because - list of things at WoW - none list of things from other mmo.
Its easier to defend something if you dont say any information about your "enemy". Those ppl are great propaganda for Blizz. And 80 different batllegrounds? Ok, EvE has 7 500 "battlegrounds" because you can do PvP in every system, try to beat that.
Played: Lineage 2,Guild Wars 1 and 2, Age of Conan, Ragnarok Online, LOTRO, World of Warcraft, League of Legends, EvE online Tried: KAL Online, Face of Mankind, ROSE online Playing: CS:GO
When Eve online releases incarna, the sheer diversity the game would have be enough to contend with the amount of "polish" a game could have, rendering people was not in the games scope, and to implement it would be a great feat.
Originally posted by Chilliesauce
Comparing EVE to WOW is like comparing apple to oranges..no more like apple to pineapple. Two totally different kind of genre.
Thought were comparing "polish"?
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
ok... O K.. Its ENOUGH guys.. Realy.. Here is the thing. I would like to ask one simple question to all WoW L O V E R S on this forum. Tell me:
W H Y ???
is WoW so freakin awesome? Why is so best and so most polished than other games? Try to compare WoW to some other MMO game and tell me WHY is WoW better..
P.S. Please use something else than - Blizzard made it. or It has sooo many players. Thx.
well, for starters you could have named a few reasons that made you post that question, not?
Thx for you respond.
Reason why I aske the question is as I said few times here: I've never seen someone who would say WoW is better than this game because.. and than he would compare those games, its always WoW is better because WoW has.. never its WoW has.. other game has.. and WoW is better because..
Btw best combat for me - Lineage 2 if we take mass PvP (few weeks later it will be maybe EvE for me ), group PvP - definitely Guild Wars, open world PvP and combat system - Age of Conan.
Played: Lineage 2,Guild Wars 1 and 2, Age of Conan, Ragnarok Online, LOTRO, World of Warcraft, League of Legends, EvE online Tried: KAL Online, Face of Mankind, ROSE online Playing: CS:GO
While those numbers would be fun to see, I'm not sure how they change the fact that upcoming MMO titles have to compete with World of Warcraft how it is now, not with how it was in 2004.
That is indeed the problem: the longer it takes the more difficult it will get to even speak of a competition.
New people are not interested in paying more to get less.
Leave the room of traditional MMORPG's, that's the only way of making a new market.
I see the next big hit: Call of Duty franchize rapped up in an MMO world.
2011 will not bring anything over WOW. It will all be less instead of more.
Difficult, yes. But not unachievable. They can compete by using a better graphic engine, by offering a new lore, or by trying to offer new game mechanics. Offering different pricing options such F2P, B2P, Monthly sub of less than 15$/month, or pay-as-you-go would definitely help too.
Thats what i thought too when i started reading this topic. 4 pages later it is more about who got bigger epeen WOW fans or Eve fans..subject of polish got lost somewhere in betwen.
Comparing EVE to WOW is like comparing apple to oranges..no more like apple to pineapple. Two totally different kind of genre.
Yea there is a game which could hurt pride of wow players by being better so we cant compare it, why ppl compare wow with warhammer than? Wow is way older with way more updates and also those games are different, war is pvp focues but wow is pve focused etc..
Played: Lineage 2,Guild Wars 1 and 2, Age of Conan, Ragnarok Online, LOTRO, World of Warcraft, League of Legends, EvE online Tried: KAL Online, Face of Mankind, ROSE online Playing: CS:GO
Thats what i thought too when i started reading this topic. 4 pages later it is more about who got bigger epeen WOW fans or Eve fans..subject of polish got lost somewhere in betwen.
And it drifted to WoW vs Eve thanks to a successful strawman argument.
Part of the question should be , "What is polish?".. Isn't that rather open to interpretation? Chess is polished, and has been around for centuries, but I don't see people racing to play it.. Does polish ONLY apply to what features you have, and should it not apply to features you don't? Such as a car stereo for example.. I can have a car stereo that plays AM/FM with no static, excellent reception, 18 preset stations, equalizer, visual graphics perfect.... No flaws anywhere..... However, it doesn't play cd's or mp3 or tape.... So is it polished?
Comments
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
Actualy there is a video on youtube done by two ppl who took I guess 2 days old characters with Rifters (frigate, smallest ship what you can use for pvp) and they succesfuly did some PvP, ofc if you are at big fight you are just a small part of it but insignificant factor? Small ships are using for warp disruptors and web so your enemy cant warp away and he cant run away so even like that you can be significant factor. You can be a pirate - join pirate corporation and start ganking with em.
Trader in EvE is a guy who simply buy low price product and sell it somewhere else with high price - so you can do it from start (after getting transport ship after tutorial) you are just not making so much money on it. Miner.. yea for some ppl most boring I actualy liked it and there are ppl who do it whole time. PvE? Yea there is even PvE in EvE and now after new update Sansha forces are coming - more PvE.
Thing about noone in corp.. simple answer, you joined wrong corp.
Blizz is doing something right ofc but.. you think CCP not? Player senat is realy great idea, I think no other game has that. (and its realy only an example of tons of other things)
Since you told your story in EvE let me tell mine. After I completed a tutorials I started to mine and trade cause I wanted to be peaceful man here, joined a corporation which was in wormhole and without war so I have freedom in high sector in safe place. Than my corp joined alliance - so I started to train PvP skills because we were at war now and I moved to 0.0 sector where Im not safe at all, I already did some PvP (ofc I died here because Im noob in EvE - you always die if you are new in game). After few days at this alliance I even participated in battle where were around 500+ ppl. Almost always is something happening around - yea sometimes I cant join the operations because of my lame ships and skills - like in every other MMO. But mostly I can join even with my lame skills and ships.
P.S. I understand some ppl dont like EvE because its too slow, they dont like sci-fi, you dont have your "avatar" just a ship etc. But EvE just fits best for MMO (massive multiplayer and online)- which game has all ppl on one server (and its not because they have so low number of ppl). And you cant be a "crafter" from start, thats true.
Played: Lineage 2,Guild Wars 1 and 2, Age of Conan, Ragnarok Online, LOTRO, World of Warcraft, League of Legends, EvE online
Tried: KAL Online, Face of Mankind, ROSE online
Playing: CS:GO
there must be a reason more ppl play it than all other mmos together
All games offer rewards. WOW just offers them with a superior cadence and structure. Is this similar to "work"? Sure, if you want to look at it that way. But no game gets away from that (and certainly not EVE.) All games have action-reward loops.
Regarding the player complaining about PVP rewards, I'm sure if the game in question had fun PVP that he wouldn't have complained (or at least his complaint would be tempered by the fact that he continued playing the game.) Even fun PVP games can be made more fun with the right rewards.
Regarding paragraph 2, of course WOW players will mostly talk about why they love WOW, and neglect to mention whether it fits to some definition of a "MMORPG standard". If a game is fun and lovable, what else matters? Nothing.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
In any game, no matter what it is, if you join a guild/clan/corp/hootenanny, what have you nad you don't see anyone for days then that MUST be a sure sign you've joined the wrong group of people.
don't blame the game for that.
Otherwise, "yeah" even if you aren't a wow player and you try the game, you can see that they are successful at what they do..
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Ok lets take it from another view. I realy like Nirvana and I realy dont think so they are better musicians than Mozart or Vivaldi even if I love em more and I listen to it way more. Thats what I mean, objectivity.
And I wanted from ppl to try to compare WoW, noone did that at this topic so far, so there is what I meant for ex.
WoW vs. hmm, Lineage 2
WoW is more focused on solo gaming as you proceed to maximum level, but Lineage is more group thing, yes you can solo too you just find mobs easy for you to kill but in group there is always a benefit in Lineage. On the other hand Lineage is mostly grind, only few quests but WoW is quest based leveling process which makes it kinda more interesting sometimes, but as we speak about MMO I think its realy about multiplayer so Lineage wins this for me (but its realy close - WoW quests guide you mostly through whole world instead in Lineage you need to explore - which has also fun in that), there is a lot of solo games out there so why pay for soloing monthly? But its true in WoW are group quests and I hope after Cata there is more of em but even so those group quests are not so played ppl skip them because even if you get better equipment from it you can get that equip few hours later so its no harm if you dont do that quest.
If we look at crafting WoW wins on whole line for me even if lineage has interesting crafting kinda but you need special character for it to make it, or spoiler for getting more materials - but also it makes ppl to party more because both of em are not so good fighters. But Wow provides a lot of crafting possibility of many different proffesions so you can choose what you like most. About endgame, Lineage 2 offers cool dungeons cool bosses but its different from WoW and I think both games has its specifis and actualy none is wining, WoW has raids, arenas, WG, open world pvp etc. Lineage 2 has freakin bosses and castle siege so both can provied different kind of fun. Also "secondary" profession like cooking, fishing etc. I think WoW wins this.
So what I think has lack at WoW is definitely group play and community for that. But its mostly because WoW dont teach you how to group play whole game till you reach maximum lvl where you are forced to group if you want to do raid and dungeons. Thats also why you see many ppl in PvP just running around without any reason and trying to kill everyone - means they lose cause they dont care about arena objective. Lineage has better group play even because you can take to dungeon as many ppl as you want but at WoW you have actual number of ppl who can enteter - or at least who should enter, its true you can always try it with lower number but not with higher.
EDIT: I havent been playing both games for some time so if something changed Im sorry about disinformations.
And I was playing WoW on PvE server so there is ofc a possibility that ppl on PvP server are used to group more.
Played: Lineage 2,Guild Wars 1 and 2, Age of Conan, Ragnarok Online, LOTRO, World of Warcraft, League of Legends, EvE online
Tried: KAL Online, Face of Mankind, ROSE online
Playing: CS:GO
Let us put numbers on "polished" in 2010....
9756 quests (99% in the open world)
25.521 armour pieces.
5.423 weapons.
14 professions and around 15.000 recipies
and most importantly: 87 normal and heroic dungeons and
80 + different Battlegrounds (since 1 month seperated into X1-X4, X5-X9 per bracket), Arena's, RvR zones, open wold PvP, Raids on cities etc...)
.
So what is interesting is that these 80+ dungeons and 80+ seperated Battlegrounds are available 24/24 Hr on every server and they are backed up by a ridiculously big open world with flying, underwater worlds, gathering professions and thousands of pieces to support it all.
It will take far more than 500 million dollars to come up with "MORE" than this.
So that is putting "polished" in numbers.
Can you get some numbers of how much it launched with for comparison sakes?
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
While those numbers would be fun to see, I'm not sure how they change the fact that upcoming MMO titles have to compete with World of Warcraft how it is now, not with how it was in 2004.
He who keeps his cool best wins.
if they polish the graphics further then I'll consider it polished.
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My Guild Wars titles
That is indeed the problem: the longer it takes the more difficult it will get to even speak of a competition.
New people are not interested in paying more to get less.
Leave the room of traditional MMORPG's, that's the only way of making a new market.
I see the next big hit: Call of Duty franchize rapped up in an MMO world.
2011 will not bring anything over WOW. It will all be less instead of more.
MMO's and games in general are like foods they all have their own taste and people either like it or they dont i find debating games too be a utter waste of time because no matter how crappy or how good a game is their always gonna be a crowd they appeal too wow is just huge because well its easy on the computers its got an actual marketing team that actually does their jobs buy getting it out there too the public easy game too get sucked into too.
Polish in itself doesn't make for a good game. You can empty up your house from all useless furniture, decorations and clean it till is shines. It will look kinda nice and "perfect", but it will also lack character, warmth and homely feeling.
WoW isn't polished in the sense, that there would be a lot of interesting detail and surprises. Pretty much same experience in every area and dungeon with slight change of mechanics and models. They try to balance everything hard, and that takes the life out of the game. Professions are the same, classes have been homogenized more and more, dungeons are nerfed very quickly. Everyhting should be fluid and streamlined, seems to be their design idea, and it's quite boring, if you ask me.
No detail? Have you seen the circles of air coming out of the mouth of your avatar in Northrend? The thousands of living lvl 1 critters around you when you venture into the world?
15.000 recipies and every profession is the same.... WOW.
I'll try to remember it when I change my Holy paladin into a retribution or a tank-protection one. And that's just one class played completely different in 3 ways. I didn't know my rogue was a mage either.
The problem with you guys are that you lost all reference points when it comes to look at WOW objectively.
You don't see these thousands of different polished things above anymore.
That is also the reason why no other game can even please you anymore.
Because they simply lack "the multiple polished standards" you have been exposed to.
ive played more than 30 mmorpgs, i actually have like 9 on my pc right now including wow, in my opinion wow is better than all other cos it has the most epic lore, the gameplay mechanics is plain smoother than all others ive tried. The way they mix and work all the classes with the variety of unique races is awesome and really good. The toonie graphic is really nice, it just fits perfectly with all aspects of this game. Many other games have smooth mechanics but lacks other important things like a good lore, good skill / craft / quest system. Some others have a lot of really good stuff like everquest, very varied, but you play EQ / EQ2 and you feel your missing something... like the game doesnt fulfill ur gamer needs. WoW does. Im not a wow fanboy, my favourite games are aoc and metin2, but WoW is just plain outstanding. Look at vindictus, i love its graphics and movement mechanics, but its hack n slash (not everyone likes that) and is too linear, no expansive world, mostly instanced.... stuff like that kills a game (lack of freedom). WoW is not perfect but to me its ranked 1st place as of today
well, for starters you could have named a few reasons that made you post that question, not?
anyway, here we go:
the gfx: surely not topnotch, but what blizzard is able to make of it can just be as breathtaking as some of the newest UT engine games
anyway, we surely got a deficit of textures here.
the combat: i played alot of mmos, most with better visuals and some with a better approach to the (by far) outdated click your skill and see what happens scheme, BUT: there is not a single mmo out there that actually has a better approach, even the newer ones "just" use the old ideas (polished obviously, non the less the same idea of combat).
WoW's advantage here: they managed to have nearly no lag at all ingame, the combat and movements are fluent as hell, and maybe even abit more accurate than hell :P
the content: the quests, hard core inis, raids and world you get to see with the addon is reeeeaaally interesting, blizz advanced their old way of storytelling with nice little cut scenes, which (imo) spice up the whole adventure thingie abit more, you actually feel like being part of the stories now.
of corz, there is nothing "really" new to wow (maybe the phasing thingie), it's actually just what has been around for years, polished to the max. and even with a totaly new world and skill system it's still one of the most polished games i have seen so far.
if you think different, name some of your points :P
i played dark age, but it was outdated at a certain point.
i played neocron, but the playerbase kinda left *G*
i played planetside, but the gfx got old after a certain time
i tried conan, and i really liked it, but it was too pvp for most players :P
i tried aion, nice gfx but the gameplay is way too much grind.
i tried STO and had nothing to do after 2 weeks ^^
i played warhammer, and i liked it, but the circle zerg was too much for me in the end.
i tried APB, and it went down (comon baby, we are waiting for your return!)
i tried eve, but i am not that much into simulations (hell, nice game anyway)
i play global agenda... well.. i do.
and i played wow, stopped, came back for some moths, stopped again, and hell, i bought the 3rd expension now and SO FAR, i am still playing
wow is just a stable and fun game, and even tho it's a pve game in it's structure, i still wait for a better pvp game so far (okai GA has a better pvp system, but that's about it, without a bigger alliance you wont get to see much more of the game but battlegrounds / merc missions)
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
Numbers, cool, still no compare to other MMO.. Compare numbers with EQ 2, EvE, Lineage 2, AoC or even Runescape. I created this topic because I've never seen someone compare WoW to anything (at least not ppl who like WoW). Those ppl just say what is amazing at WoW, numbers from WoW, stuff from WoW, number of ppl playing WoW etc. But if some of em compared WoW to something it was like WoW is better than this because - list of things at WoW - none list of things from other mmo.
Its easier to defend something if you dont say any information about your "enemy". Those ppl are great propaganda for Blizz. And 80 different batllegrounds? Ok, EvE has 7 500 "battlegrounds" because you can do PvP in every system, try to beat that.
Played: Lineage 2,Guild Wars 1 and 2, Age of Conan, Ragnarok Online, LOTRO, World of Warcraft, League of Legends, EvE online
Tried: KAL Online, Face of Mankind, ROSE online
Playing: CS:GO
Comparing EVE to WOW is like comparing apple to oranges..no more like apple to pineapple. Two totally different kind of genre.
When Eve online releases incarna, the sheer diversity the game would have be enough to contend with the amount of "polish" a game could have, rendering people was not in the games scope, and to implement it would be a great feat.
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
Thx for you respond.
Reason why I aske the question is as I said few times here: I've never seen someone who would say WoW is better than this game because.. and than he would compare those games, its always WoW is better because WoW has.. never its WoW has.. other game has.. and WoW is better because..
Btw best combat for me - Lineage 2 if we take mass PvP (few weeks later it will be maybe EvE for me
), group PvP - definitely Guild Wars, open world PvP and combat system - Age of Conan.
Played: Lineage 2,Guild Wars 1 and 2, Age of Conan, Ragnarok Online, LOTRO, World of Warcraft, League of Legends, EvE online
Tried: KAL Online, Face of Mankind, ROSE online
Playing: CS:GO
Difficult, yes. But not unachievable. They can compete by using a better graphic engine, by offering a new lore, or by trying to offer new game mechanics. Offering different pricing options such F2P, B2P, Monthly sub of less than 15$/month, or pay-as-you-go would definitely help too.
Thats what i thought too when i started reading this topic. 4 pages later it is more about who got bigger epeen WOW fans or Eve fans..subject of polish got lost somewhere in betwen.
Yea there is a game which could hurt pride of wow players by being better so we cant compare it, why ppl compare wow with warhammer than? Wow is way older with way more updates and also those games are different, war is pvp focues but wow is pve focused etc..
Played: Lineage 2,Guild Wars 1 and 2, Age of Conan, Ragnarok Online, LOTRO, World of Warcraft, League of Legends, EvE online
Tried: KAL Online, Face of Mankind, ROSE online
Playing: CS:GO
And it drifted to WoW vs Eve thanks to a successful strawman argument.
Part of the question should be , "What is polish?".. Isn't that rather open to interpretation? Chess is polished, and has been around for centuries, but I don't see people racing to play it.. Does polish ONLY apply to what features you have, and should it not apply to features you don't? Such as a car stereo for example.. I can have a car stereo that plays AM/FM with no static, excellent reception, 18 preset stations, equalizer, visual graphics perfect.... No flaws anywhere..... However, it doesn't play cd's or mp3 or tape.... So is it polished?