What the companies looking to steal WoW's crowd need to realize that it is impossible to do that. For a lot of people playing WoW, its their first MMO. The thing about first MMO is that you really can't settle for another game that tries to be like it.
If X is your first MMO, and you LOVE it, you can't really love a Y MMO that tries to be like X.
GW2 is highly hyped because Arenanet has promised a lot of stuff that people from WoW don't look for in a MMO, i.e. they aren't even targetting the WoW playing crowd, like Rift is trying to.
More companies need to do that. Instead of targeing the market of World Of Warcraft, expand the genre in hopes of bringing millions more. There is unlimited potential, VIdeogames industry is bigger than movies and MOST of it is occupied by console gamers and PC non-MMO gamers and they're all a market.
Demon's Souls is a perfect example of this. It broke the trend of carebear single player RPGs and blasted people back into their Nes days when beating a game was a real challenge. From Software did their own thing. Make this challenging but yet Fair Action RPG with innovative online and PvP.
Even though the game didn't appeal to the casual market, the game becase so popular that it won Gamespot's GoTY 2009 and from a lot of other well respected publications too. They didn't even plan to release it in USA, they thought nobody would buy their game because there is no "Easy" difficulty and how they were proven wrong when the imports demand became so high they were basically forced to release the game in USA. They were not wrong in thinking this way. Demon's Souls is the ONLY game I've played so far, that only gets more harder as you die more. If you die in the game not only will you start from the beginning of the level but with half a health and the enemies will be stronger. It sold on word of mouth and reviews like these, with pretty much zero advertisements :
I'm not saying bring only challenging content to be successful, just do your own thing and if possible try to break the trend. The trend today is carebearness of developers though. But most of them are too afraid they won't get a market if they can't appeal to WoW market, which like I said, they just can't get anyways, not until Blizzard keeps pumping out expansions.
I know it is advertising. . but advertising is to get people hyped up. . so we can't blame them for being disappointed can we?
You can blame yourself only.
I said them . . not me. You didn't read.
Advertising is still used because people believe it. Just because you have learnt your lesson doesn't make it less dishonest.
Can you really "go back to your old haunt and see what has changed"? I don't think so. . their examples are a merchant. . or again a RIFT.
I would say they have only themselves to blame. Which was the reason for the backlash. . which was justified.
Right now this is applicable to dungeons. Once you complete a dungeon you can come back to it at higher levels and you will encounter new monsters, bosses and new areas inside that dungeon will open up.
Sure. . but have the "old" places changed? I just think their calling it dynamic is really just like a random encounter table from the old D&D games. . or having high level content in an old area to come back to. That really isn't dynamic although I see your point.
Are you talking about permanent changes? or dynamic changes to landscape which last a bit longer but resets? permanent changes to landscape can't be done without instances. GW2 which is advertising its dynamic events works on the same principles, say you fail to save a village it will burn and occupied by enemies and stay that way until you drive the enemies out of that village. it is same in RIFT.
When invasions happen, if left unchecked rifts changes landscape the creatures of rifts spawn invasions which takes over the cities and settlements. Till you drive them out that city will be their stronghold.
Well I don't expect this from RIFTS. . .but what I would like to see is that the world will change. . and not with phasing. . that if something happens in the world it makes a difference and stays that way. It is a lot to ask and not what they promised.
I guess my issues is that games have gone more away from open concepts and have become more on rails. . even theme parks. I also don't think that a random vendor or RIFT constitutes a living breathing world. Mind you everyone has promised that and not delivered. UO had hunger and stomach sizes and a dragon was supposed to roam once he ran out of food in his area. . ie players over hunt deer in a forest and they might end up with a bear rampaging through their viillage.
To me this is dynamic. . not scripted with some random elements. A series of interacting elements that could end up with a dragon attacking a city. . that isn't hard coded into a random table. This is a dream I know.
Well I don't expect this from RIFTS. . .but what I would like to see is that the world will change. . and not with phasing. . that if something happens in the world it makes a difference and stays that way. It is a lot to ask and not what they promised.
I agree, but I think we have more chance of that with a small indie game that has a single server - Fallen Earth, for example - as it's nigh on impossible to implement permanently changing worlds across multiple servers.
Well I don't expect this from RIFTS. . .but what I would like to see is that the world will change. . and not with phasing. . that if something happens in the world it makes a difference and stays that way. It is a lot to ask and not what they promised.
I guess my issues is that games have gone more away from open concepts and have become more on rails. . even theme parks. I also don't think that a random vendor or RIFT constitutes a living breathing world. Mind you everyone has promised that and not delivered. UO had hunger and stomach sizes and a dragon was supposed to roam once he ran out of food in his area. . ie players over hunt deer in a forest and they might end up with a bear rampaging through their viillage.
To me this is dynamic. . not scripted with some random elements. A series of interacting elements that could end up with a dragon attacking a city. . that isn't hard coded into a random table. This is a dream I know.
You don't have to expect it because it is already happening. Second beta a lot of players were fighting in silver wood area to keep invaders away from one of the settlements. There were atleast 4 groups fighting the invaders and rifters almos took over it killing every NPC in there including quest givers. Granted it is only beta and there is still of lots of places left to explore, who knows how more aggressive the rift invaders get as we progress to higher level areas.
However some things sound very cool on paper but may not seem that way when implemented in game. Our imagination gets the better of us.
You don't have to expect it because it is already happening. Second beta a lot of players were fighting in silver wood area to keep invaders away from one of the settlements. There were atleast 4 groups fighting the invaders and rifters almos took over it killing every NPC in there including quest givers. Granted it is only beta and there is still of lots of places left to explore, who knows how more aggressive the rift invaders get as we progress to higher level areas.
However some things sound very cool on paper but may not seem that way when implemented in game. Our imagination gets the better of us.
Well that certainly does sound more like what I am talking about and at least it does give some "unexpected" elements to the game which does keep it fresh. I will try the beta again tomorrow and see if I can get a little further. . hoping the world opens up more as well.
Don’t be surprised at the reactions towards Rift. The reactions might be based on personal measures or expectations that stem from generalized studio comments that can be certainly taken a number of ways, including sensational promotion. Maybe what Trion isn't doing so well at is detailing specifics about its' dynamic game-play mechanics. I'm not sure, but at least I am able to experience some early impressions, some positive and some not so positive, from my Beta Event involvement.
Though, I still find it pretty funny at the seemingly ignorance (the lack of knowledge) of some that compare Rift ro WoW or WAR, and try to imply it’s a bad thing to share similar traits or mechanics, as an attempt by one’s comments to be negative or disparaging in an adolescent way, when in-fact most mmo's are amalgamations or an evolved or changed amalgamations none-the-less, of its' predecessors.
I've been guilty of this myopic attitude until I've learned that it's best to self-search exactly and explain precisely what my likes and dislikes are, when posting a review or opinion. So, I've realized It's just pure ignorance to consider that there is something wrong or dissatisfying when World of Warcraft, appealing to some but dissatisfying to others, became that evolved amalgamation, a change of some inherent traits and mechanics, of UO, EQ, Asherson's Call, and Final Fantasy XI, for example.
There’s nothing wrong about that. WoW improved up and shared/took tools, traits, mechanics from existing products and improved upon them. And I can understand that World of Warcraft is probably the only game that some of you have only played, and as a result, might have an impaired point of reference because of it. But to imply or generalize that "...it is just like..." without knowledge or experience of the refined amalgamation of WoW from previous titles, or cant explain your impression reasonably beyond aesthetics or superficial elements of Rift, doesn’t hold much credence, imho.
Sure, use it (WoW, WAR, etc.) as a point of reference. But ‘use’ of a point of reference, and pointing to one or a few superficial features while ignoring a much deeper and broader game-play design landscape, and much more complete on launch, that Rift plans to offer, just might be a sure-tell sign of self-admitted lack of intellectual acuity. Not all, but some.
So don’t be surprised at the reactions towards Rift. Most can tell which reactions are misplaced and which are genuine, I think. I'm a skeptical optimist and will look forward to the Beta 3 event; Rift is just one of several games I’m watching closely.
I see many beta testers from the first 2 betas here that think they know the game in it's entirety but in fact they have not scratch the surface yet.
There is no phasing or extremely limited use of it in Rift because it is stupid and excludes grouping since you are on different parts of a quest and can't help eachother on them.
The rift system in the very first levels of the game is to introduce you to rifts in a semi controlled fashion and not take over the zone. As you adventure deeper into the game you will find multiple different rifts spawning in the same territory and even battling eachother.
The pet thing is a trade off. You can make a pet class but you will be giving up some raw power from classes that don't have pets in the trade off.
Character builds. You are not limited by watered down builds. If you want to go completely down 4 full specs in just one soul tree and not mix anything you can do that. The choices are yours to make and the results are not permanent. You can respec at an npc for gold if you feel one or more of your choices in spec needs adjustment.
There will be entire zones that get taken over at some point in the game by rifts and the quest npc's for whatever you were working on will be gone. You will need to retake those locations in order to continue your questing progression.
Also players will be able to use devices within thier inventory to open rifts in enemy territory to create pandimonium as a launching point for a major PvP assault.
The rifts are one part of a world that has alot going on.
I am sooo happy they don't have phasing used extensively in this game.
You can either enjoy what this company and game are trying to do or go play another game but don't try and paint a picture of the game that is not correct based on information that is only half informed. I would liken that to a person saying the earth is definately flat because you can see on a clear day for as far as you can see and there is no noticable curve.
I tend to agree, Karble. Trion has borrowed elements, game-play mechanics and such from games before them, and intend upon improving upon them. The more inviting and community-centric these mechanics are, the better.
They did actually. The new guild system is a modified system that EQ2 has been running for years. Those two games, they steal stuff from each other. The MMO industry is really cutthroat and that's why beta tests have NDA these days. In some ways it isn't stealing. Some realms of fantasy have common creatures and common themes that people have been known to enjoy.
The story and features of Rift so far appear to be tried and true. Going to enter beta in a bit here, we'll see how it holds up. If this game is similar to WoW it can only be because WoW defined some of the things that make MMOs fun. Therefore every MMO that comes out afterward will "be like WoW". Sort of like new psychedelic rock "sounds like Pink Floyd, man".
True Neutral Half-Elf Ranger Mage Follower Of Silvanus
I logged in today to beta 3 and after 3 hours i realised i played this game before (many times) and am no longer intersteted in that kind of game play. It was very pretty tho and everything ran smooth on a old comp. w
I logged in today to beta 3 and after 3 hours i realised i played this game before (many times) and am no longer intersteted in that kind of game play. It was very pretty tho and everything ran smooth on a old comp. w
This is about the most honest post I have heard about why someone will not play this game. I think you are very truthfull and your post should be reposted in big bold fashion for all to see. This is the proper way to provide feedback on a game.
Basically the game worked good and looked good but maxeborn didn't like this kind of gameplay anymore since it is built upon the traditional games we all know and have played.
I respect your point of view maxeborn. I hope to see you in another game in the future. I will be playing Rifts but will find time to squeeze in some Guildwars 2 and that might be more to your liking.
I logged in today to beta 3 and after 3 hours i realised i played this game before (many times) and am no longer intersteted in that kind of game play. It was very pretty tho and everything ran smooth on a old comp. w
I got accepted into beta 3 today and tried it out for about 6 hours straight. I got to level 13 and while the random events(rifts) we're fun, they got old pretty fast. It really felt like something most of us played before. 8(
They did actually. The new guild system is a modified system that EQ2 has been running for years. Those two games, they steal stuff from each other. The MMO industry is really cutthroat and that's why beta tests have NDA these days. In some ways it isn't stealing. Some realms of fantasy have common creatures and common themes that people have been known to enjoy.
The story and features of Rift so far appear to be tried and true. Going to enter beta in a bit here, we'll see how it holds up. If this game is similar to WoW it can only be because WoW defined some of the things that make MMOs fun. Therefore every MMO that comes out afterward will "be like WoW". Sort of like new psychedelic rock "sounds like Pink Floyd, man".
Very true. I tend to think of MMO's in two eras. Era 1 was EQ-WOW and everything was like EQ. For the most part, games based themselves on the EQ model while some games tried new things. Even WOW, in its early form, was an EQ-clone.
Era 2 is newer-WOW to the present. As WOW diverged from the EQ model, the casual MMO gamer was brought into the fold and games went more casual and new player friendly. Since, all games have been like WOW to capitalize on this new market.
Games from here on out will either be like WOW or have a dev/investor/design team that is content on not having WOW numbers. I am sorry but a hardcore/FFA/sandbox will not have WOW's success in the modern market. To capture WOW's success you either will have to out-WOW WOW (hard to do) or create a totally new MMO experience (which we have yet to see).
With that said, Rift is like WOW which is to be expected. This does not make it a good or bad game, it is what it is. Rift has taken systems from other games and tweaked them, changed them or improved on them. It is a solid game.
If you want it to be anything other than a WOW-like game, then move along. Its design its like it is for a reason and that is not changing. I think its a great game and has enough there for me to play it.
Have I done it before? Sure but the same could be said for every RTS, FPS, MMO, etc... that I have ever played. Age of Empires 3 was more of the same from AOE 1 and 2 but that didn't make it a bad game. I personally accept games for what they are and decide to enjoy them for what they are and not what I want them to be.
Excellent points. The only thing I would disagree with is the "first phase" of MMOs. Ultima Online, the Realm and Meridian had no quests (they had a few in Meridian but they were not as obvious). The first generation was more of a virtual world sandbox type of thing. When designers made those games they thought wouldn't it be fun to play in these game worlds together?! Today they think. . lets make a cool game that people can play alone if they want, while seeing other people run by - and group if they want to.
That was a major shift. . but you are right these games were not going to grab the casual crowd and they are still unlikely to.
We knew how similar Rift will paly similar to WoW.
I think these reactions are because we've seen what Guild Wars 2 is providing: Innovation.
Right from the start GW2 talked about the things ArenaNet talked about things we're sick of in MMOs: Grind, Wall of Text, no RPG, loot steal, LFG problems, have to team up with a jerk because he's the job we need, the fighting style, static world... etc etc.
So I think maybe we (including myself) were thinking that Rift will deliever a new experience.
And we have not played GW2 BUT WE'VE SEEN ENOUGH!
Sad. All you've read is reviews and you make a post like this.
I just poured 2 full, long days into the current beta, and I don't think the game is even close to a wow clone, or whatever-the-hell-people-are-saying. It's completely different than wow, plays totally differently, and so on. It has tons of dynamic events, NONE of which I've ever seen in wow (or pretty much any other game). The graphics look nothing like wow's cartoony style either. They are quite amazing actually. Some of the best effects and graphics I've ever seen in a game - especially the graphics of the different rifts. The multiclassing is awesome - making for completely different types of characters. There's very little grinding, and if anything, the game is too easy. The pvp is even fun, and challenging, and I don't even like pvp, for many, many reasons (and I'm not going into them here).
I've played countless mmos for 10+ years, and not only is this game extremely solid, it's actually fun to play. I'm sure it will be a very solid release. This beta (beta 3?) is *very* solid.
We knew how similar Rift will paly similar to WoW.
I think these reactions are because we've seen what Guild Wars 2 is providing: Innovation.
Right from the start GW2 talked about the things ArenaNet talked about things we're sick of in MMOs: Grind, Wall of Text, no RPG, loot steal, LFG problems, have to team up with a jerk because he's the job we need, the fighting style, static world... etc etc.
So I think maybe we (including myself) were thinking that Rift will deliever a new experience.
And we have not played GW2 BUT WE'VE SEEN ENOUGH!
Sad. All you've read is reviews and you make a post like this.
I just poured 2 full, long days into the current beta, and I don't think the game is even close to a wow clone, or whatever-the-hell-people-are-saying. It's completely different than wow, plays totally differently, and so on. It has tons of dynamic events, NONE of which I've ever seen in wow (or pretty much any other game). The graphics look nothing like wow's cartoony style either. They are quite amazing actually. Some of the best effects and graphics I've ever seen in a game - especially the graphics of the different rifts. The multiclassing is awesome - making for completely different types of characters. There's very little grinding, and if anything, the game is too easy. The pvp is even fun, and challenging, and I don't even like pvp, for many, many reasons (and I'm not going into them here).
I've played countless mmos for 10+ years, and not only is this game extremely solid, it's actually fun to play. I'm sure it will be a very solid release. This beta (beta 3?) is *very* solid.
Um... I've played WoW about a year. This game PLAYS like WoW. Graphics are good. But it PLAYS like WoW.
I played the beta 3 as well.
And no, I have not just read reviews of Guild Wars 2 to make a post like this. I've seen the 50 minutes Guild Wars 2 gameplay.
This game is good for someone looking for WoW + 1 like a guy who put it that way. It's fighting mechanic = WoW fighting mechanics.
When rifts open up, they're hardly dynamic. Here's what GW2 has to say about their dynamic events:
"Because the world is constantly changing through our event system, we've created a living, breathing environment that is especially rewarding for altoholics. The event system will help ensure that every new character you create has a truly unique experience when playing through the game world, making playing new characters more fun and rewarding than in traditional MMOs." But in Rift, this is not true.
But as for the rifts, they open and we close them. I think 90% of the time we'll be able to close the rift. But as for GW2 each dynamic event will be different. You win the dynamic event, it'll lead to different consequences. You loose the dynamic event, it'll lead to different consequences.
But for rift, if we loose, maybe one town gets taken over. I don't see dynamic here.
Anyways, I don't really like WoW, neither do I want to play a game that plays like WoW.
I'm sorry, I have to point this out because it's one of my biggest pet peeves. It's lose NOT loose. Loose is what my ex-wife was. Lose is what happens when you do not win.
Personally, I find the combat system to be similar to WoW, but with subtle differences that put it above WoW in many aspects. However, that is like comparing apples to oranges. Blizzard didn't come up with anything groundbreaking in WoW, from beta through the current game. The interface and other aspects are similar in nearly every MMO out there, regardless of genre. The only thing that has happened with WoW over the last few years is that they've dumbed the game down more and more to the point where a three year old can play it on the first day, and within a few weeks be high enough level to start raiding.
I look back at the years that I've spent gaming, from early MUDs to The Realm, Ultima Online and Meridian 59, then on to EverQuest, EverQuest II, World of Warcraft, Earth and Beyond, Eve, and many, many others, and the one thing that I see is that there is a lot of competition in a flooded market for the attention and money of gamers. No two people are going to have the same opinion of any given game at any given time, which is good. Differences are what make it worthwhile to try new games and help the developers with their ideas and help to nurture them into a game that more people can (and hopefully will) enjoy, play and bring others in to have fun with.
I avoid reading other peoples' reviews of games for the most part, preferring to establish my own opinion by playing the game, not watching an hour long video of game play... Anyone can make an hour long video of gameplay of a game that they want others to have interest in, and spin it to view in any way they wish it to. The proof is in with the end result of the finished product and how it performs and feels to those who are willing and able to put out the funds to buy and continue to play the game.
Well, I'd like to point out: The fighting style is very similar to WoW. After hearing this, one should be prepared what's coming when they go off and buy the game.
And one should certainly give the game a shot before calling quits without even trying the game.
It is better and more refined PRE-LAUNCH then almost all MMO games released in 2010.
That says alot. You have to live under a rock to not want to get this game if you enjoy the classic MMO. It's got plenty of lore, wonderful character flexability, lots of questing, unique dynamic events, scaling graphics, faction based PvP, crafting, exploration, dungeons, ring events, servers with different rulesets, an in game achievement system, incredibly fully featured and flexible GUI and much more.
I do not live under a rock and will be playing this game on release. I think Trion might be the first gaming company in a while to actually live up to player expectations in having a complete, polished, feature rich game at launch and listen to it's potential player base even before release.
I think a lot of people, especially on this forum, just want something different. From what I gathered Rift is pretty much more of the same with a twist (the Rifts).
The one design decision that has some complaints, which are valid imo, is that the game should have been designed with rifts as the core of the game. People have said it is a questing game with rifts as a side event, it should be the other way around.
Ok, I'll play along....... I'd like to know what you and or anyone else would do different in making a next best thing MMORPG..
I've been playing MMO's ever since Ultima Online came out.. There are just two types of MMO's.. Ones that focus on PVP and ones that focus on PVE... There's really no in between.. The only MMO that you can sasy has somewhat balanced pve and pvp is Dark Age of Camelot, but that's just my opinion...
In Rifts, the game is set up like any traditional sandbox MMORPG like EQ, WoW, EQ2, Vanguard, etc. However, the game features Rifts which are pretty similar to WAR's PQ's, just with a little twist.. Also, there will be PvP, the Guardians vs the Defiant.. I'm still yet to see how this system is set up even after participating in all 3 beta events.. I didn't play much this week due to work, and you can only get to level 20.. So, we really don't know how the upper levels will be like in terms of PvP and PVE gameplay.. We can make educated guesses based on the first 20 levels, and we'd probably be pretty accurate on our assessment..
Anyway, I'm not trying to sound like a fanboy or anything.. I look at Rifts and enjoy what the game has to offer from level 1-20.. It plays similar to all of my favorite MMO's I've enjoyed in the past like Everquest, EQ2, WoW, Vanguard, and DAOC "without the rvr" I purposely left off AOC and WAR simply because those two games did NOT have good PVE which I enjoy... With that said, there are features about Rifts which I think are awesome.. I love the different soul systems set up. You could literally multiclass "within the same archtype sphere up to 3 different combinations of classes.. I absolutely love this. It kind of reminds me of classic D&D, without being able to multiclass from opposite archtypes.. It's almost like choosing 3 distinctive classes and molding them into one awesome class.. What isn't cool about that?? For example, the 3 characters I created, I used the warrior tree, rogue tree, and the priest tree.. In the rogue tree I chose to play as a nightblade and ranger. I combined the bad arse melee abilities of the nightblade and mixed them with the awesome ranged abilities of the ranger to make pretty much a cross between the two.. How awesome is that? This is one feature that many will enjoy to tinker with for months and years to come.. No one person will be exactly the same, talk about insane diversity!
I also enjoy the graphics of the player models and environments. I have yet to see player models and environments in any other mmorpg as awesome as Rifts. To me, this truly feels next gen.. Of course, I have a 24 inch lcd 1920-1080 monitor with a 8800 GTS graphics card.. Imagine how it would look on the latest and greatest graphics card.. Simply breathtaking..
Also, I absolutely loved the Iron Tombs dungeon. For a "BEGINNER" dungeon, it felt truly epic for me. I honestly haven't had this much fun since my days in EQ.. I remember playing EQ so many years ago and the first dungeon I ventured to was BlackBurrow,, the dungeon of the gnolls.. Now, this was like a level 10-15 dungeon, however it was the first dungeon you could go to if you started in Quenos area.. Blackburrow doesn't even compare to Iron Tombs in terms of breathtaking awesomeness.. If Iron Tombs was this cool, imagine how the other dungeons are going to be..
Topic change....
I look at many negative posts and it's pretty much the same ridiculous argument.. The negative people want MMORPG's to literally evolve into something completely different than what they really are.. Fantasy MMORPG's are just that.. Players living in a virtual reality fantasy world where they set out and go on adventures to become a legendary figure in their world by basically defeating all the evil in the land,,,, the end... If you ever read fantasy novels, it's ALL THE SAME.. Each particular story is different, but all are the same in terms of the concept.. You can't just change the concept in fantasy novels just like you can't change the concept in fantasy MMORPG's...
So I ask one more time, what would you people change in MMO's to help make it a legendary awesome player experience? I would love to know the secrets hidden in your brains, since you minds must be more evolved than mine...
Rallithon Oakthornn (Retired Heirophant of the 60th season)
An MMO where the world changes, say you could help the bad guys and peaceful villages turn to places that are getting set on fire by orcs, or you help good and that village now has rainbows and unicorns and Koala bears that crap rainbows into your brain as you wake up each morning.
Each server would be different depending on what happens.
Sure hard to implement without a lot of predictability but it would still be awesome.
However, Rift is a pretty good game and the clas system is amazing. Instead of a specific class system, you are a powerful wizard, able to dip into the different disciplines of magic or a great warrior able to switch fighting styles and tactics to meet upcoming challenges. I really want to play this and Beta has only strengthened that.
True Neutral Half-Elf Ranger Mage Follower Of Silvanus
I think a lot of people, especially on this forum, just want something different. From what I gathered Rift is pretty much more of the same with a twist (the Rifts).
The one design decision that has some complaints, which are valid imo, is that the game should have been designed with rifts as the core of the game. People have said it is a questing game with rifts as a side event, it should be the other way around.
Ok, I'll play along....... I'd like to know what you and or anyone else would do different in making a next best thing MMORPG..
I've been playing MMO's ever since Ultima Online came out.. There are just two types of MMO's.. Ones that focus on PVP and ones that focus on PVE... There's really no in between.. The only MMO that you can sasy has somewhat balanced pve and pvp is Dark Age of Camelot, but that's just my opinion...
In Rifts, the game is set up like any traditional sandbox MMORPG like EQ, WoW, EQ2, Vanguard, etc. However, the game features Rifts which are pretty similar to WAR's PQ's, just with a little twist.. Also, there will be PvP, the Guardians vs the Defiant.. I'm still yet to see how this system is set up even after participating in all 3 beta events.. I didn't play much this week due to work, and you can only get to level 20.. So, we really don't know how the upper levels will be like in terms of PvP and PVE gameplay.. We can make educated guesses based on the first 20 levels, and we'd probably be pretty accurate on our assessment..
Anyway, I'm not trying to sound like a fanboy or anything.. I look at Rifts and enjoy what the game has to offer from level 1-20.. It plays similar to all of my favorite MMO's I've enjoyed in the past like Everquest, EQ2, WoW, Vanguard, and DAOC "without the rvr" I purposely left off AOC and WAR simply because those two games did NOT have good PVE which I enjoy... With that said, there are features about Rifts which I think are awesome.. I love the different soul systems set up. You could literally multiclass "within the same archtype sphere up to 3 different combinations of classes.. I absolutely love this. It kind of reminds me of classic D&D, without being able to multiclass from opposite archtypes.. It's almost like choosing 3 distinctive classes and molding them into one awesome class.. What isn't cool about that?? For example, the 3 characters I created, I used the warrior tree, rogue tree, and the priest tree.. In the rogue tree I chose to play as a nightblade and ranger. I combined the bad arse melee abilities of the nightblade and mixed them with the awesome ranged abilities of the ranger to make pretty much a cross between the two.. How awesome is that? This is one feature that many will enjoy to tinker with for months and years to come.. No one person will be exactly the same, talk about insane diversity!
I also enjoy the graphics of the player models and environments. I have yet to see player models and environments in any other mmorpg as awesome as Rifts. To me, this truly feels next gen.. Of course, I have a 24 inch lcd 1920-1080 monitor with a 8800 GTS graphics card.. Imagine how it would look on the latest and greatest graphics card.. Simply breathtaking..
Also, I absolutely loved the Iron Tombs dungeon. For a "BEGINNER" dungeon, it felt truly epic for me. I honestly haven't had this much fun since my days in EQ.. I remember playing EQ so many years ago and the first dungeon I ventured to was BlackBurrow,, the dungeon of the gnolls.. Now, this was like a level 10-15 dungeon, however it was the first dungeon you could go to if you started in Quenos area.. Blackburrow doesn't even compare to Iron Tombs in terms of breathtaking awesomeness.. If Iron Tombs was this cool, imagine how the other dungeons are going to be..
Topic change....
I look at many negative posts and it's pretty much the same ridiculous argument.. The negative people want MMORPG's to literally evolve into something completely different than what they really are.. Fantasy MMORPG's are just that.. Players living in a virtual reality fantasy world where they set out and go on adventures to become a legendary figure in their world by basically defeating all the evil in the land,,,, the end... If you ever read fantasy novels, it's ALL THE SAME.. Each particular story is different, but all are the same in terms of the concept.. You can't just change the concept in fantasy novels just like you can't change the concept in fantasy MMORPG's...
So I ask one more time, what would you people change in MMO's to help make it a legendary awesome player experience? I would love to know the secrets hidden in your brains, since you minds must be more evolved than mine...
I think a lot of people, especially on this forum, just want something different. From what I gathered Rift is pretty much more of the same with a twist (the Rifts).
The one design decision that has some complaints, which are valid imo, is that the game should have been designed with rifts as the core of the game. People have said it is a questing game with rifts as a side event, it should be the other way around.
Ok, I'll play along....... I'd like to know what you and or anyone else would do different in making a next best thing MMORPG..
I've been playing MMO's ever since Ultima Online came out.. There are just two types of MMO's.. Ones that focus on PVP and ones that focus on PVE... There's really no in between.
Yes there is, EVE. CCP did it best, has as good, if not better sustained subscribership numbers than any mainstream mmo since WoW, save Lineage and Aion, and if it werent for the fact that I had to play a ship, but were more character-based sci-fi or fantasy with the same organic game-play mechanics with tiered sector pvevp, I'd be there.
Originally posted by Aethaeryn Originally posted by Elidien
Originally posted by mrbbman
They did actually. The new guild system is a modified system that EQ2 has been running for years. Those two games, they steal stuff from each other. The MMO industry is really cutthroat and that's why beta tests have NDA these days. In some ways it isn't stealing. Some realms of fantasy have common creatures and common themes that people have been known to enjoy. The story and features of Rift so far appear to be tried and true. Going to enter beta in a bit here, we'll see how it holds up. If this game is similar to WoW it can only be because WoW defined some of the things that make MMOs fun. Therefore every MMO that comes out afterward will "be like WoW". Sort of like new psychedelic rock "sounds like Pink Floyd, man".
Very true. I tend to think of MMO's in two eras. Era 1 was EQ-WOW and everything was like EQ. For the most part, games based themselves on the EQ model while some games tried new things. Even WOW, in its early form, was an EQ-clone. Era 2 is newer-WOW to the present. As WOW diverged from the EQ model, the casual MMO gamer was brought into the fold and games went more casual and new player friendly. Since, all games have been like WOW to capitalize on this new market. Games from here on out will either be like WOW or have a dev/investor/design team that is content on not having WOW numbers. I am sorry but a hardcore/FFA/sandbox will not have WOW's success in the modern market. To capture WOW's success you either will have to out-WOW WOW (hard to do) or create a totally new MMO experience (which we have yet to see). With that said, Rift is like WOW which is to be expected. This does not make it a good or bad game, it is what it is. Rift has taken systems from other games and tweaked them, changed them or improved on them. It is a solid game. If you want it to be anything other than a WOW-like game, then move along. Its design its like it is for a reason and that is not changing. I think its a great game and has enough there for me to play it. Have I done it before? Sure but the same could be said for every RTS, FPS, MMO, etc... that I have ever played. Age of Empires 3 was more of the same from AOE 1 and 2 but that didn't make it a bad game. I personally accept games for what they are and decide to enjoy them for what they are and not what I want them to be. Excellent points. The only thing I would disagree with is the "first phase" of MMOs. Ultima Online, the Realm and Meridian had no quests (they had a few in Meridian but they were not as obvious). The first generation was more of a virtual world sandbox type of thing. When designers made those games they thought wouldn't it be fun to play in these game worlds together?! Today they think. . lets make a cool game that people can play alone if they want, while seeing other people run by - and group if they want to. That was a major shift. . but you are right these games were not going to grab the casual crowd and they are still unlikely to.
Well that's just it. WoW was originally an EQ clone with a few improvements. Then it evolved into new things with updates, improvements, and changes. Now it is unique, building the old model into something new. Rift could do that, it is a fun game and the few features that make it stand out are very key and add enough richness to make me like the game better than WoW.
In fact, i played WoW for years, YEARS. Rift is the only new MMO to come out that could possibly cause me to play another game for YEARS. Especially if the dev team stays this responsive. We'll hopefully see lots of new content and features as the game grows.
True Neutral Half-Elf Ranger Mage Follower Of Silvanus
I think Rift is a decent game. If they dropped their self-proclaimed "next gen" marketing people wouldn't have anything to complain about.
This ^. There's really nothing different about the game. The rifts and their "invasions" are distractions; they're a fun way to break up the otherwise simplistic monotony of counting to 15 goblins or whatever.
It's not a terrible MMO as far as MMOs go - it's rock solid, there are great options for character progression, the world and graphics look pretty darn good, the dev team is responsive so far - but it's just another MMO.
It's a MMO with wandering mob packs that can interrupt what everyone's doing.. but it's usually fun when they do.
Trion will have shot themselves in the feet with their marketing. Anyone who enjoys MMOs as they are today and just wants something a little different is likely to really enjoy Rift. Those of us who very much want something different are likely to be disappointed when they try it.
What I don't expect to see is the massive exodus that was witnessed with Aion. I expect there to be plenty of people who are disappointed and quit, but I would be surprised if it doesn't maintain a fair subscription base.
Comments
What the companies looking to steal WoW's crowd need to realize that it is impossible to do that. For a lot of people playing WoW, its their first MMO. The thing about first MMO is that you really can't settle for another game that tries to be like it.
If X is your first MMO, and you LOVE it, you can't really love a Y MMO that tries to be like X.
GW2 is highly hyped because Arenanet has promised a lot of stuff that people from WoW don't look for in a MMO, i.e. they aren't even targetting the WoW playing crowd, like Rift is trying to.
More companies need to do that. Instead of targeing the market of World Of Warcraft, expand the genre in hopes of bringing millions more. There is unlimited potential, VIdeogames industry is bigger than movies and MOST of it is occupied by console gamers and PC non-MMO gamers and they're all a market.
Demon's Souls is a perfect example of this. It broke the trend of carebear single player RPGs and blasted people back into their Nes days when beating a game was a real challenge. From Software did their own thing. Make this challenging but yet Fair Action RPG with innovative online and PvP.
Even though the game didn't appeal to the casual market, the game becase so popular that it won Gamespot's GoTY 2009 and from a lot of other well respected publications too. They didn't even plan to release it in USA, they thought nobody would buy their game because there is no "Easy" difficulty and how they were proven wrong when the imports demand became so high they were basically forced to release the game in USA. They were not wrong in thinking this way. Demon's Souls is the ONLY game I've played so far, that only gets more harder as you die more. If you die in the game not only will you start from the beginning of the level but with half a health and the enemies will be stronger. It sold on word of mouth and reviews like these, with pretty much zero advertisements :
http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/acz2t/let_me_tell_you_about_demons_souls/
I'm not saying bring only challenging content to be successful, just do your own thing and if possible try to break the trend. The trend today is carebearness of developers though. But most of them are too afraid they won't get a market if they can't appeal to WoW market, which like I said, they just can't get anyways, not until Blizzard keeps pumping out expansions.
Well I don't expect this from RIFTS. . .but what I would like to see is that the world will change. . and not with phasing. . that if something happens in the world it makes a difference and stays that way. It is a lot to ask and not what they promised.
I guess my issues is that games have gone more away from open concepts and have become more on rails. . even theme parks. I also don't think that a random vendor or RIFT constitutes a living breathing world. Mind you everyone has promised that and not delivered. UO had hunger and stomach sizes and a dragon was supposed to roam once he ran out of food in his area. . ie players over hunt deer in a forest and they might end up with a bear rampaging through their viillage.
To me this is dynamic. . not scripted with some random elements. A series of interacting elements that could end up with a dragon attacking a city. . that isn't hard coded into a random table. This is a dream I know.
Wa min God! Se æx on min heafod is!
I agree, but I think we have more chance of that with a small indie game that has a single server - Fallen Earth, for example - as it's nigh on impossible to implement permanently changing worlds across multiple servers.
You don't have to expect it because it is already happening. Second beta a lot of players were fighting in silver wood area to keep invaders away from one of the settlements. There were atleast 4 groups fighting the invaders and rifters almos took over it killing every NPC in there including quest givers. Granted it is only beta and there is still of lots of places left to explore, who knows how more aggressive the rift invaders get as we progress to higher level areas.
However some things sound very cool on paper but may not seem that way when implemented in game. Our imagination gets the better of us.
Well that certainly does sound more like what I am talking about and at least it does give some "unexpected" elements to the game which does keep it fresh. I will try the beta again tomorrow and see if I can get a little further. . hoping the world opens up more as well.
Wa min God! Se æx on min heafod is!
Don’t be surprised at the reactions towards Rift. The reactions might be based on personal measures or expectations that stem from generalized studio comments that can be certainly taken a number of ways, including sensational promotion. Maybe what Trion isn't doing so well at is detailing specifics about its' dynamic game-play mechanics. I'm not sure, but at least I am able to experience some early impressions, some positive and some not so positive, from my Beta Event involvement.
Though, I still find it pretty funny at the seemingly ignorance (the lack of knowledge) of some that compare Rift ro WoW or WAR, and try to imply it’s a bad thing to share similar traits or mechanics, as an attempt by one’s comments to be negative or disparaging in an adolescent way, when in-fact most mmo's are amalgamations or an evolved or changed amalgamations none-the-less, of its' predecessors.
I've been guilty of this myopic attitude until I've learned that it's best to self-search exactly and explain precisely what my likes and dislikes are, when posting a review or opinion. So, I've realized It's just pure ignorance to consider that there is something wrong or dissatisfying when World of Warcraft, appealing to some but dissatisfying to others, became that evolved amalgamation, a change of some inherent traits and mechanics, of UO, EQ, Asherson's Call, and Final Fantasy XI, for example.
There’s nothing wrong about that. WoW improved up and shared/took tools, traits, mechanics from existing products and improved upon them. And I can understand that World of Warcraft is probably the only game that some of you have only played, and as a result, might have an impaired point of reference because of it. But to imply or generalize that "...it is just like..." without knowledge or experience of the refined amalgamation of WoW from previous titles, or cant explain your impression reasonably beyond aesthetics or superficial elements of Rift, doesn’t hold much credence, imho.
Sure, use it (WoW, WAR, etc.) as a point of reference. But ‘use’ of a point of reference, and pointing to one or a few superficial features while ignoring a much deeper and broader game-play design landscape, and much more complete on launch, that Rift plans to offer, just might be a sure-tell sign of self-admitted lack of intellectual acuity. Not all, but some.
So don’t be surprised at the reactions towards Rift. Most can tell which reactions are misplaced and which are genuine, I think. I'm a skeptical optimist and will look forward to the Beta 3 event; Rift is just one of several games I’m watching closely.
I see many beta testers from the first 2 betas here that think they know the game in it's entirety but in fact they have not scratch the surface yet.
There is no phasing or extremely limited use of it in Rift because it is stupid and excludes grouping since you are on different parts of a quest and can't help eachother on them.
The rift system in the very first levels of the game is to introduce you to rifts in a semi controlled fashion and not take over the zone. As you adventure deeper into the game you will find multiple different rifts spawning in the same territory and even battling eachother.
The pet thing is a trade off. You can make a pet class but you will be giving up some raw power from classes that don't have pets in the trade off.
Character builds. You are not limited by watered down builds. If you want to go completely down 4 full specs in just one soul tree and not mix anything you can do that. The choices are yours to make and the results are not permanent. You can respec at an npc for gold if you feel one or more of your choices in spec needs adjustment.
There will be entire zones that get taken over at some point in the game by rifts and the quest npc's for whatever you were working on will be gone. You will need to retake those locations in order to continue your questing progression.
Also players will be able to use devices within thier inventory to open rifts in enemy territory to create pandimonium as a launching point for a major PvP assault.
The rifts are one part of a world that has alot going on.
I am sooo happy they don't have phasing used extensively in this game.
You can either enjoy what this company and game are trying to do or go play another game but don't try and paint a picture of the game that is not correct based on information that is only half informed. I would liken that to a person saying the earth is definately flat because you can see on a clear day for as far as you can see and there is no noticable curve.
I tend to agree, Karble. Trion has borrowed elements, game-play mechanics and such from games before them, and intend upon improving upon them. The more inviting and community-centric these mechanics are, the better.
They did actually. The new guild system is a modified system that EQ2 has been running for years. Those two games, they steal stuff from each other. The MMO industry is really cutthroat and that's why beta tests have NDA these days. In some ways it isn't stealing. Some realms of fantasy have common creatures and common themes that people have been known to enjoy.
The story and features of Rift so far appear to be tried and true. Going to enter beta in a bit here, we'll see how it holds up. If this game is similar to WoW it can only be because WoW defined some of the things that make MMOs fun. Therefore every MMO that comes out afterward will "be like WoW". Sort of like new psychedelic rock "sounds like Pink Floyd, man".
True Neutral Half-Elf Ranger Mage
Follower Of Silvanus
Kings of Chaos! Free to play! Great PvP!
I logged in today to beta 3 and after 3 hours i realised i played this game before (many times) and am no longer intersteted in that kind of game play. It was very pretty tho and everything ran smooth on a old comp. w
This is about the most honest post I have heard about why someone will not play this game. I think you are very truthfull and your post should be reposted in big bold fashion for all to see. This is the proper way to provide feedback on a game.
Basically the game worked good and looked good but maxeborn didn't like this kind of gameplay anymore since it is built upon the traditional games we all know and have played.
I respect your point of view maxeborn. I hope to see you in another game in the future. I will be playing Rifts but will find time to squeeze in some Guildwars 2 and that might be more to your liking.
Same EXCAT thing with me.
Guild Wars 2's 50 minutes game play video:
http://n4g.com/news/592585/guild-wars-2-50-minutes-of-pure-gameplay
Everything We Know about GW2:
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/287180/page/1
I got accepted into beta 3 today and tried it out for about 6 hours straight. I got to level 13 and while the random events(rifts) we're fun, they got old pretty fast. It really felt like something most of us played before. 8(
Excellent points. The only thing I would disagree with is the "first phase" of MMOs. Ultima Online, the Realm and Meridian had no quests (they had a few in Meridian but they were not as obvious). The first generation was more of a virtual world sandbox type of thing. When designers made those games they thought wouldn't it be fun to play in these game worlds together?! Today they think. . lets make a cool game that people can play alone if they want, while seeing other people run by - and group if they want to.
That was a major shift. . but you are right these games were not going to grab the casual crowd and they are still unlikely to.
Wa min God! Se æx on min heafod is!
Sad. All you've read is reviews and you make a post like this.
I just poured 2 full, long days into the current beta, and I don't think the game is even close to a wow clone, or whatever-the-hell-people-are-saying. It's completely different than wow, plays totally differently, and so on. It has tons of dynamic events, NONE of which I've ever seen in wow (or pretty much any other game). The graphics look nothing like wow's cartoony style either. They are quite amazing actually. Some of the best effects and graphics I've ever seen in a game - especially the graphics of the different rifts. The multiclassing is awesome - making for completely different types of characters. There's very little grinding, and if anything, the game is too easy. The pvp is even fun, and challenging, and I don't even like pvp, for many, many reasons (and I'm not going into them here).
I've played countless mmos for 10+ years, and not only is this game extremely solid, it's actually fun to play. I'm sure it will be a very solid release. This beta (beta 3?) is *very* solid.
Um... I've played WoW about a year. This game PLAYS like WoW. Graphics are good. But it PLAYS like WoW.
I played the beta 3 as well.
And no, I have not just read reviews of Guild Wars 2 to make a post like this. I've seen the 50 minutes Guild Wars 2 gameplay.
This game is good for someone looking for WoW + 1 like a guy who put it that way. It's fighting mechanic = WoW fighting mechanics.
When rifts open up, they're hardly dynamic. Here's what GW2 has to say about their dynamic events:
"Because the world is constantly changing through our event system, we've created a living, breathing environment that is especially rewarding for altoholics. The event system will help ensure that every new character you create has a truly unique experience when playing through the game world, making playing new characters more fun and rewarding than in traditional MMOs." But in Rift, this is not true.
But as for the rifts, they open and we close them. I think 90% of the time we'll be able to close the rift. But as for GW2 each dynamic event will be different. You win the dynamic event, it'll lead to different consequences. You loose the dynamic event, it'll lead to different consequences.
But for rift, if we loose, maybe one town gets taken over. I don't see dynamic here.
Anyways, I don't really like WoW, neither do I want to play a game that plays like WoW.
Guild Wars 2's 50 minutes game play video:
http://n4g.com/news/592585/guild-wars-2-50-minutes-of-pure-gameplay
Everything We Know about GW2:
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/287180/page/1
I'm sorry, I have to point this out because it's one of my biggest pet peeves. It's lose NOT loose. Loose is what my ex-wife was. Lose is what happens when you do not win.
Personally, I find the combat system to be similar to WoW, but with subtle differences that put it above WoW in many aspects. However, that is like comparing apples to oranges. Blizzard didn't come up with anything groundbreaking in WoW, from beta through the current game. The interface and other aspects are similar in nearly every MMO out there, regardless of genre. The only thing that has happened with WoW over the last few years is that they've dumbed the game down more and more to the point where a three year old can play it on the first day, and within a few weeks be high enough level to start raiding.
I look back at the years that I've spent gaming, from early MUDs to The Realm, Ultima Online and Meridian 59, then on to EverQuest, EverQuest II, World of Warcraft, Earth and Beyond, Eve, and many, many others, and the one thing that I see is that there is a lot of competition in a flooded market for the attention and money of gamers. No two people are going to have the same opinion of any given game at any given time, which is good. Differences are what make it worthwhile to try new games and help the developers with their ideas and help to nurture them into a game that more people can (and hopefully will) enjoy, play and bring others in to have fun with.
I avoid reading other peoples' reviews of games for the most part, preferring to establish my own opinion by playing the game, not watching an hour long video of game play... Anyone can make an hour long video of gameplay of a game that they want others to have interest in, and spin it to view in any way they wish it to. The proof is in with the end result of the finished product and how it performs and feels to those who are willing and able to put out the funds to buy and continue to play the game.
Well, I'd like to point out: The fighting style is very similar to WoW. After hearing this, one should be prepared what's coming when they go off and buy the game.
And one should certainly give the game a shot before calling quits without even trying the game.
Guild Wars 2's 50 minutes game play video:
http://n4g.com/news/592585/guild-wars-2-50-minutes-of-pure-gameplay
Everything We Know about GW2:
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/287180/page/1
It is better and more refined PRE-LAUNCH then almost all MMO games released in 2010.
That says alot. You have to live under a rock to not want to get this game if you enjoy the classic MMO. It's got plenty of lore, wonderful character flexability, lots of questing, unique dynamic events, scaling graphics, faction based PvP, crafting, exploration, dungeons, ring events, servers with different rulesets, an in game achievement system, incredibly fully featured and flexible GUI and much more.
I do not live under a rock and will be playing this game on release. I think Trion might be the first gaming company in a while to actually live up to player expectations in having a complete, polished, feature rich game at launch and listen to it's potential player base even before release.
Ok, I'll play along....... I'd like to know what you and or anyone else would do different in making a next best thing MMORPG..
I've been playing MMO's ever since Ultima Online came out.. There are just two types of MMO's.. Ones that focus on PVP and ones that focus on PVE... There's really no in between.. The only MMO that you can sasy has somewhat balanced pve and pvp is Dark Age of Camelot, but that's just my opinion...
In Rifts, the game is set up like any traditional sandbox MMORPG like EQ, WoW, EQ2, Vanguard, etc. However, the game features Rifts which are pretty similar to WAR's PQ's, just with a little twist.. Also, there will be PvP, the Guardians vs the Defiant.. I'm still yet to see how this system is set up even after participating in all 3 beta events.. I didn't play much this week due to work, and you can only get to level 20.. So, we really don't know how the upper levels will be like in terms of PvP and PVE gameplay.. We can make educated guesses based on the first 20 levels, and we'd probably be pretty accurate on our assessment..
Anyway, I'm not trying to sound like a fanboy or anything.. I look at Rifts and enjoy what the game has to offer from level 1-20.. It plays similar to all of my favorite MMO's I've enjoyed in the past like Everquest, EQ2, WoW, Vanguard, and DAOC "without the rvr" I purposely left off AOC and WAR simply because those two games did NOT have good PVE which I enjoy... With that said, there are features about Rifts which I think are awesome.. I love the different soul systems set up. You could literally multiclass "within the same archtype sphere up to 3 different combinations of classes.. I absolutely love this. It kind of reminds me of classic D&D, without being able to multiclass from opposite archtypes.. It's almost like choosing 3 distinctive classes and molding them into one awesome class.. What isn't cool about that?? For example, the 3 characters I created, I used the warrior tree, rogue tree, and the priest tree.. In the rogue tree I chose to play as a nightblade and ranger. I combined the bad arse melee abilities of the nightblade and mixed them with the awesome ranged abilities of the ranger to make pretty much a cross between the two.. How awesome is that? This is one feature that many will enjoy to tinker with for months and years to come.. No one person will be exactly the same, talk about insane diversity!
I also enjoy the graphics of the player models and environments. I have yet to see player models and environments in any other mmorpg as awesome as Rifts. To me, this truly feels next gen.. Of course, I have a 24 inch lcd 1920-1080 monitor with a 8800 GTS graphics card.. Imagine how it would look on the latest and greatest graphics card.. Simply breathtaking..
Also, I absolutely loved the Iron Tombs dungeon. For a "BEGINNER" dungeon, it felt truly epic for me. I honestly haven't had this much fun since my days in EQ.. I remember playing EQ so many years ago and the first dungeon I ventured to was BlackBurrow,, the dungeon of the gnolls.. Now, this was like a level 10-15 dungeon, however it was the first dungeon you could go to if you started in Quenos area.. Blackburrow doesn't even compare to Iron Tombs in terms of breathtaking awesomeness.. If Iron Tombs was this cool, imagine how the other dungeons are going to be..
Topic change....
I look at many negative posts and it's pretty much the same ridiculous argument.. The negative people want MMORPG's to literally evolve into something completely different than what they really are.. Fantasy MMORPG's are just that.. Players living in a virtual reality fantasy world where they set out and go on adventures to become a legendary figure in their world by basically defeating all the evil in the land,,,, the end... If you ever read fantasy novels, it's ALL THE SAME.. Each particular story is different, but all are the same in terms of the concept.. You can't just change the concept in fantasy novels just like you can't change the concept in fantasy MMORPG's...
So I ask one more time, what would you people change in MMO's to help make it a legendary awesome player experience? I would love to know the secrets hidden in your brains, since you minds must be more evolved than mine...
Rallithon Oakthornn
(Retired Heirophant of the 60th season)
An MMO where the world changes, say you could help the bad guys and peaceful villages turn to places that are getting set on fire by orcs, or you help good and that village now has rainbows and unicorns and Koala bears that crap rainbows into your brain as you wake up each morning.
Each server would be different depending on what happens.
Sure hard to implement without a lot of predictability but it would still be awesome.
However, Rift is a pretty good game and the clas system is amazing. Instead of a specific class system, you are a powerful wizard, able to dip into the different disciplines of magic or a great warrior able to switch fighting styles and tactics to meet upcoming challenges. I really want to play this and Beta has only strengthened that.
True Neutral Half-Elf Ranger Mage
Follower Of Silvanus
Kings of Chaos! Free to play! Great PvP!
This.
Yes there is, EVE. CCP did it best, has as good, if not better sustained subscribership numbers than any mainstream mmo since WoW, save Lineage and Aion, and if it werent for the fact that I had to play a ship, but were more character-based sci-fi or fantasy with the same organic game-play mechanics with tiered sector pvevp, I'd be there.
Era 2 is newer-WOW to the present. As WOW diverged from the EQ model, the casual MMO gamer was brought into the fold and games went more casual and new player friendly. Since, all games have been like WOW to capitalize on this new market.
Games from here on out will either be like WOW or have a dev/investor/design team that is content on not having WOW numbers. I am sorry but a hardcore/FFA/sandbox will not have WOW's success in the modern market. To capture WOW's success you either will have to out-WOW WOW (hard to do) or create a totally new MMO experience (which we have yet to see).
With that said, Rift is like WOW which is to be expected. This does not make it a good or bad game, it is what it is. Rift has taken systems from other games and tweaked them, changed them or improved on them. It is a solid game.
If you want it to be anything other than a WOW-like game, then move along. Its design its like it is for a reason and that is not changing. I think its a great game and has enough there for me to play it.
Have I done it before? Sure but the same could be said for every RTS, FPS, MMO, etc... that I have ever played. Age of Empires 3 was more of the same from AOE 1 and 2 but that didn't make it a bad game. I personally accept games for what they are and decide to enjoy them for what they are and not what I want them to be.
Excellent points. The only thing I would disagree with is the "first phase" of MMOs. Ultima Online, the Realm and Meridian had no quests (they had a few in Meridian but they were not as obvious). The first generation was more of a virtual world sandbox type of thing. When designers made those games they thought wouldn't it be fun to play in these game worlds together?! Today they think. . lets make a cool game that people can play alone if they want, while seeing other people run by - and group if they want to.
That was a major shift. . but you are right these games were not going to grab the casual crowd and they are still unlikely to.
Well that's just it. WoW was originally an EQ clone with a few improvements. Then it evolved into new things with updates, improvements, and changes. Now it is unique, building the old model into something new. Rift could do that, it is a fun game and the few features that make it stand out are very key and add enough richness to make me like the game better than WoW.
In fact, i played WoW for years, YEARS. Rift is the only new MMO to come out that could possibly cause me to play another game for YEARS. Especially if the dev team stays this responsive. We'll hopefully see lots of new content and features as the game grows.
True Neutral Half-Elf Ranger Mage
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Kings of Chaos! Free to play! Great PvP!
This ^. There's really nothing different about the game. The rifts and their "invasions" are distractions; they're a fun way to break up the otherwise simplistic monotony of counting to 15 goblins or whatever.
It's not a terrible MMO as far as MMOs go - it's rock solid, there are great options for character progression, the world and graphics look pretty darn good, the dev team is responsive so far - but it's just another MMO.
It's a MMO with wandering mob packs that can interrupt what everyone's doing.. but it's usually fun when they do.
Trion will have shot themselves in the feet with their marketing. Anyone who enjoys MMOs as they are today and just wants something a little different is likely to really enjoy Rift. Those of us who very much want something different are likely to be disappointed when they try it.
What I don't expect to see is the massive exodus that was witnessed with Aion. I expect there to be plenty of people who are disappointed and quit, but I would be surprised if it doesn't maintain a fair subscription base.