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A different approach to MMORPG's: Trials of Ascension!
Harris34
Member Posts: 8
Hey everybody!
I want to introduce you all to a great game in development, Trials of Ascension.
It's an MMO with a very different approach than such games as WoW and EQ2 (both good in their own right). I'm going to let the features do the talking:
- Permanent Death. After 100 lives (will be tweaked during beta) your character dies for good. No longer will people charge blindly against an opponent they know they cant beat. Death finally means something in a game. You will have to rely on your friends to survive the wilds. There wont be zerg battles, because people will fear losing too many lives.
- 18 Races. There will be many variety of races to choose from. All the way from a powerful dragon, to a fluttering pixie.
(Full race list here: http://www.shadowpool.com/compendium.php )
- Skill System. Instead of cookie cutter classes, you have the option to choose what skills you like. There is a near limitless cap on how far your skills can go. There will be plenty of freedom to be what you want. . But be careful, the broader your skill set, the harder it is to raise individual skills. Skills also atrophy over time, so you better keep sharp.
- Innovations. When working with a particular skill, whether it be wood work or cooking, your character has a chance to discover a unique innovation to do said skill. So, you may be the only person in the entire world that knows how to build a particular ship, or know how to make a special soup. Will you teach your innovation to others? Or will you collect on the immense riches you could reap from it?
- Religions. Religions play an important role in the game. Players can be actual priests of their faiths. they run their own shrines and can even become the Heirophant of their religion! Your actions are tracked with all of the gods of TerVarus, so dont try to anger them! Will you follow Dalgar, the God of War, or Arolian, or Caduceas, the God of Life?
- Combat. Gone are the days of "caveman" style combat. It will take player skill as well as character stats to win in battle. An element of "twitch" is in the game. You will have to aim your attacks, and one hit kills are possible. A fresh out of the womb newbie has a chance to beat a seasoned vet if he plays his cards right.
- Player Driven Economy. No set prices, no NPC merchants. If you want something, you'll have to buy, make, or steal it from another player to get it. Economists wet dream. Over 90% of the worlds items will be player made.
- Player Run Settlements. Players will be able to come together to make their own cities. It wont be easy, it will take alot of work, and every part of the city will have to be built by the hands of the players. No plopping down 2mil gold and a city appears out of nowhere. Settlements can mint their own coins, set specific laws, build up armies. Settlements will develop trade routes, form allliances, engage in war. All of this handled by the players themselves.
- Dynamic Weather System. Earthquakes, tornadoes, floods. All will be in the game, and can strike at any time. You will be able to see storms forming. You will even be able to navigate by the stars.
- No Static Quests. There will be no quests in ToA. It is up to the players to run their own lives. Do you want to go on an adventure and climb that mountain up there? Do you want to lead your settlement to that dragon who has been harrassing your land? Or are your goals more modest? Do you want to run the best tavern TerVarus has ever seen? How about becoming a politican? It's all made possible by the players, not some lifeless NPC telling you to go collect 20 beaver pelts to level up your sword skills. There will be a dynamic campaign manager staff to provide an overarching story line. A drunken dwarf in a tavern mumbling about a cave he saw in the mountains could set off a world war over a mystical artifact.
- Complete, Unrestricted PvP combat. No safe zones, no honor system. If it's walking, it can be killed. That doesnt mean their arent consequences. Somone might see you and report you to the settlement near by. Maybe the word has gotten out about your taste for human flesh, and the settlement leader levies a bounty on your head.
I could go on and on. For a complete list of features, be sure to check here:
http://www.shadowpool.com/features.php
There are many more features not listed there. For those interested in knowing more, peruse the official site, as well as the fan site OGRE found in the links section. Pay particular attention to the developer quote database at OGRE for tons and tons of information. You will be reading all night!
Now,
ToA is not scheduled to come out anytime soon. There is no release date, and they have not announced beta as of yet. There are only 4 screenshots on the site. This may perplex some of you, and put you off from the game. I dont blame you. It takes a certain kind of individual to follow a game that has no clear release point.
They just released a new site with updated info and screenshots from the new engine. They write new lore stories every week, and have dev and character chats ever month or so. They just hired a community manager, which points to the fact they are getting to a stage in development where one will be needed. The devs are on the boards all the time, and even drop on IRC to chat with the fans. You will also find that the ToA community is one of the friendliest communities you will find.
I know alot of you are jaded from the ongoing Mourning fiasco, and I am with you there. BUT, we have to give the small dev houses a chance to prove their worth. ToA is different because of the professional nature the developers, community manager, and mods stick to.
My fingers are brutally tired from all of this typing, so i'll leave it at that. If you have any questions, please feel free to ask me.
Comments
Give me a shout out when it's close to release, or at least in an Open Beta format. Until then, it's vaporware.
Do you say that about Vanguard, Dark and Light, and the dozens of other games on this forum that arent in Open beta yet?
If so, thats a sad way to think.
It sounds interesting on paper, but I can already see features that aren't going to make it into prime time because of development problems. Communism looked good on paper until you added the 'human' element.
Legitimate claim, no doubt.
The devs have said they will either release the game as currently intended, or not at all. How much stock we should put in those words is unknown for sure. They dont have a publisher breathing down their neck, and they have already taken 3 years to get to this point, so i'm inclined to believe them.
But, everyone should go into it with a healthy dose of skeptisicm. That's how we avoid being fanboys.
My biggest skeptical view on this is on the topic of building your castles, becoming a dragon, attacking armies, making your own government, and how much of a high end computery ou would need.
Actually, if I understand correctly, he feels that way because the game doesn't even have a release date to speak of. Dark and Light (can't speak for Vanguard) has a release date.
Also, Dark and Light won't even be having an open beta, if you didn't know.
_____________________________________
"Io rido, e rider mio non passa dentro;
Io ardo, e l'arsion mia non par di fore."
-Machiavelli
Wasn't DnL's original release date April '05? Release dates mean nothing for MMORPGS, a good release date would be: when its done.
The way I see it unless it's about to be released or has gone gold there is still no way to know for certain if a game will be released. So best not to pay attention till it's certain to come out is I think the train of thought here is. I actaully understand it as well. One game I was really looking forward to, could see myself playing, that looked like it was about to be released cause it was already insanely stable and working even in Alpha form since it was using the Unreal Tornament engine was Ultima X: Odyssey. Anyone could see from the movies, reports from the public events, and talking with devs and those that tested the game at events that the game was ready and solid. Then EA goes and moves that section of the company to Cali causing majority of the staff to quit cause they didn't want to move. Thus the game was canceled before it could go into beta(which might not have been that long as well from the look of things) and be released.
So even if a game has a release date, gets into beta(Wish for example), it's not certain it will come out. Some peopel just rather not over hype themselves or set themselves up for disappointment. One of the newest examples is Mourning and the state it is in at the moment. Then there is Horizons for example when it came out, or even Asheron's Call and Shadowbane to certain degrees. Just to many disappontments have taken place.
Dark and Light looks great but there is no way I'm going to give it a serious looking at until I hear it's gone gold and then I'll look at it again. I learned my lesson from UXO and Wish.
That is exactly what I say to each and every one of those games. They are all hype, promise, asipiration, and potential. They all represent the possibility of the future, but none of them have arrived.
I have been around the block enough times to know better than to hang my hat on the musings of a development team. They say what they want to do, and if they are lucky they will get to do most of it...but they will never do it all, and if they are unlucky (or incompetant) they will do little of what they propose.
End result? Disappointed fans and a whole host of "promises" that become "lies" in the eyes of the once-faithful. It's a pointless exercise in frustration.
Instead I prefer to simply note the game's title and wait until it can be proven to contain contents and features. When Open Beta rolls around the feature set is 95-99% complete and it is no longer speculation. Then, and only then, do I take an active interest in the proposed features of a game. Until then, it's vaporware in my view.
wow Imagine this, me arguing the other side of what Ianubisi said.. just like the old days of the perma-death discussion.
Expecting a game to 100% of the content it states in alpha/pre-alpha is silly, but likeing the general idea is good.
WoW had the same basic idea from the start, thats what I liked, thats what I followed, and in the end I was happy.
Again I am rather biased because I have been following ToA for a loooong time, If shadowpool did a media blackout, I might say "vapour" but there is just too much signs of life in the game.
THey have revamped the engine, they are are hiring more people, and funding is a none issues for them at last notice. The devs talk with people, and hold events, and they arent shy about when they got somthing new to say.
With most of the games that go Vapor, they tend to go through "media blackouts" and other such stunts, where as they try to die peacfuilly, where as ToA is showing signs of growth.
I understand that many of you.. well some of you are biased because you have been through horizons, and Wish, and Dawn... I was a follower of all three, Horizons especially.
The thing is, you can say "oh look at these games" but thats just looking at the worst case, pessimistic point.
Maybe its just me, but I like to give people and ideas the benifit of the doubt. They have shown no sign of dieing, infact they have shown the exact opposite. These people are pouring their hearts out into a game, and I think in turn, they deserve some credit.
You cant say "all mmorpgs that go off on a limb and try somthing totally differnt" will become vapour, thats just what happened before. And yes you can predict the future from the past, but sometimes you gota give things the positive, and not dwell on past experience. You start to live in the past, and base all your decisions on past experience, and you can miss out on a lot.
so in conclution, dont be so pessimistic, just because it happened before doesnt meen it is the most likely outcome for the future, thats a very unhappy way to live =D
after 6 or so years, I had to change it a little...
So, i take it no one wants to discuss the game based on its feature set, and only talk about whether its vaporware or not?
Let's at least attempt to have a positive discussion. I'm willing to bet most of the people who dismiss the game as vaporware havent even checked out their site and forums.
Oh, and can the admin of the site change the screenshots to the new ones on the site? The ones on MMORPG.com are from the old engine, and are vastly inferior to the new ones.
Hmmm, I believe that is Vanguard's release date.
What is your point exactly?
So by your logic, a new company cant produce a quality game. By that same token, the Vanguard team cant make anything but an everquest clone because they havent done any unique things before?
I wasnt asking for a debate on whether the game was going to be released or not. EVERY game could end up on the cutting room floor, small developer or not. So that should be taken out of the discussion.
Anyone want to discuss the features, screenshots (the new ones please), the community, the devs, anything that can presently be talked about without conspiracy theories about the viability of release?
So all the new games coming down the pipeline should just be ignored until they are released? I'm afraid you are living in a dreamworld bud. Games dont get released unless there is a fanbase to support them. The only way games get that support is if people take a chance on following the game.
Again, should people stop following Vaguard then? You dont know if it will be under-developed or not. Should people have stopped following EQ2 because it was a clone of EQ1?
Like i said, taking away the potential for being cancelled, under-developed, or a clone (which all games qualify for), what do people think of the features and screenshots?
Hmmm, I believe that is Vanguard's release date.
I dont think so, i was never waiting for Vanguard, but i was for DnL and i remember waiting for april for this.
Even if it WAS Vanguards release date it proves my point more because now vanguard isnt even listen anywhere from now to one year from now, on upcoming games, which proves that a release date is useless unless you've played beta and know its ready for a launch
Since vaporware = a game that has not been released yet, then technically yes ToA is vaporware. Can we move on from this now? If we were to stop talking about 'games not released yet' that would leave us pretty short of things to discuss.
I am looking forward to ToA, for the first time I will be able to live in a virtual world, something I have been longing for since I first owned a computer.
*Signature*The Pessimist says the cup is half empty. The Optimist says the cup is half full. The Pragmatist says the cup is half full of air. The Engineer says the cup is operating at 50% capacity. The Psychologist says the cup is your mother. The Punk Kid also says the cup is your mother. The Cricket Player says his cup is definately full. Everyone knows that Pamela Andersons cups are full. The Defendant says it was like that when he found it. Me, I just ask the waitress for a refill.
They just don't want to discuess anything Harris, they just want to B*tch.
Personally, i've been following ToA for 3-4 months now. The community is great, and the Devs are open as any i've ever met.
I am looking forward the to religion system.
Religion has always been a background thing in the past, limited to Roleplayers who invented gods or found a few in the lore of a game. anyone could be a "priest" or "cleric" or "Paladin" without ever choosing a god. With ToA, the Gods watch what you do. If you become a follower of Omnus (the god of the dead) and start raising an Undead army, you can bet your sweet coin that you better keep a long distance between your little army and any shrine to Caduceas ( the goddess of life).
At what point did I suggest that people should stop following a game? I merely stated that that is what I do. I am not nearly egotistical or self-centered enough to think that my way is the way everyone should follow.
That's absolutely correct, and 100% of the reason why I do not get my hopes up waiting for features that may be implemented.But I'll wager you an entire month's salary that that entire list will not be in the game at release.
I didn't follow EQ2's development, just like I'm not following D&L, ToA, Vanguard, DDO, LotR, and numerous other titles.
Whether you follow it or not is entirely your choice. Make it, and be happy with it...and stop pretending like I'm dictating your actions.
I am highlighting my own approach to these games, which you may choose to ignore to your heart's content...I promise you won't hurt my feelings. If you don't like my approach, feel free to lavish as much attention on these games as you like...in fact, post about them daily and make your true feelings known. But know that you will face people who will be skeptical. Learn to live with them, because you sure as hell are not going to shout them down.
We get your point ianubisi. you aren't interested until this game releases. So you have nothing further to add to this discussion. Have a nice day and see you around.
geld:
I think ToA will be one of the first of a new type of MMOG; Virtual worlds. Worlds where there is almost complete player freedom. You can do whatever you want. But there are consequences for your actions. The player interacts with the world around them, but the world changes, and not always in the players favor. If it's snowing, you better be able to keep yourself warm. Don't wear platemail in the desert unless you have a high heat tolerance. Rain might rust away poor quality metals.
There won't be a "con" system in ToA. You won't have a clue how skilled or unskilled your choosen opponient might be. Crafters will have real economical value. weapons, armor, items will all have to be made by someone.
Housing will also have a very valuable comodity here. You don't just rent one of an infinate number of apartments (i.e EQ2). Each house and new settlement will have to be built by the players. And housing isn't limited by zones (DAoC) or by specific building locations (Horizons). Settlements won't spring up over night either (SWG, SB) a small 2-3 room home would take someone 2-3 REAL days to build!
Everything is up to the PCs to decide, not NPCs. There isn't any need for SXP (D&L) because NPC's won't be running the cities or selling the goods, the players will. If you aren't good at talking to others, you won't be a good politician.
You'll see plenty of me around, I can assure you of that.
I'll talk about the feature set and potential problems. I don't care if it's not out yet. I do like some of the ideas and think it sounds cool, but, call me jaded, with the maturity of users out there, I think a lot of exploitation will take place.
1. I like the idea of permadeath. I always have and think it should be implemented more commonly. But, this is going to lead to problems with some players creating newbies to PK someone who is higher level, so that they don't risk their own avatar. Whether this will be a problem or not, I don't know, but I can see it happening.
2. If they can balance 18 races, then that would be a good accomplishment. Or, if they don't balance the races, but make the more powerful races the object of a quest or something. Otherwise, you will have a lot of one race running around, simply because they are the most powerful. The problem with a lot of MMORPG's, is the 'powergamer' factor, which is bigger than a lot of you might realize. These are the people who play the game simply to 'beat' it, or be the first to the top. I'm not saying it's a bad way or the wrong way, just that the dev's need to keep it in mind.
3. That sounds a lot like the skill system in UO. I, personally, hated that way. I bought UO when it first came out. Hacked away at a practice dummy for half an hour, got bored, then walked out of town with another guy where we promptly got eaten by a bear. It wasn't even a contest. But, if they can pull it off where raising your skills doesn't turn into a grind fest, then I'm all for it.
4. The innovations idea sounds cool, but you can only have so many variations on a skill before they start seeming the same, or worse, are viewed as totally worthless other than being unique. It will be interesting to see how they implement this.
5. I can already see problems with combat, in that latency is going to play a factor. Broadband is going to do much better than dialup. I will wait to see how they will balance that issue.
6. The weather system is being implemented in Dark and Light as well. I think it's a good idea and sure as heck beats the current weather implementations in other MMORPG's currently.
7. Religions/player run (whatever) - This is the meat of the problem that I see. I think the developers are putting too much faith in the players. Sorry guys, but I've been in too many games and I am familiar with the vagaries of humanity, especially on the internet. If it can be exploited, it will be. People will talk up a good game, but few will do anything. The economy will be thrown out of whack within the first month, if not the first week. People come into these games to have fun and play, not to have to work, which is what it seems to me to be suggesting. But, I'll keep an open mind and we'll see.
8. No quests means no direction. No direction means no idea of what to do. People like to be led. They like having their lives directed without much input from them. This is another ideal that looks good on paper, but that's because you don't have the 'human' element in it. This is one I don't see much future for.
9. Another game tried this kind of approach, Asheron's Call. Some liked it, some didn't. There's got to be some sort of safety mechanism built into this or it will be exploited and ultimately fail.
Those are my take on the different features that are being implemented. Of course, this is just my view on the subject and some will agree while others won't. But regardless, this is a game I'll keep checking up on as it does sound like it has a couple of features I like.
1) single character servers
2) they have no intention of "balancing" the races in the classical sense. each has strengths and weaknesses, advantages and disadvantages. i.e. full grown dragons will take many many people to kill, BUT the trip there will be hard. the dev's predect 1/500 will actually make it to adulthood. and it will take ALOT of play time to actually make it there (think 5+ months here)
3) skills are skills. heh
personally i like a skills system vs a level system
4) Innovations will come from a HUGE pool, and they'll be relatively rare. like a new type of sword blade, or a new design for a building, or discovering a new dye color.
5) i agree here, but i won't be doign much combat
6) Agree
7) there will be no coin at the begining of the game. it is up to the settlements to mint their own coin, if they want to use them instead of barter. and one settlements coin might not be accepted in another. Monsters won't drop coin either, just what they might have made themselves, or looted from someone's corpse. There will be some work involved, depending on how you play, but the work vs reward balance will be a good one.
8) There is a strong history to the world, and there will be GM's to guide the story line. You just won't see the pointless "go hunt 5 badgers, get two dingo tails, and the scales from a laser lizard and i will give you 3 silver and a potion." what do you leaves a mark on the world. Once you kill a monster, that particular monster will never respawn again. (unless it's a pc)
I'm not trying to argue or anything, but your points have been brought up before and this is what is known that the devs are trying to do to prevent failure.
I take this as a reasonable discussion, Elys, so no worries about that. You've answered some points, yet brought up questions about others.
1. That solves part of the problem, though I can still see ways of exploiting it, but there's not much you can do to get around it, and since it would be a hassle, I don't see it being used much.
2. So dragons will be like 'jedi' in SWG, in that it takes a long time to achieve that status, but once they get there, they are quite powerful. Well, this becomes a design issue and one that only time will really tell, so it's a 'wait and see'.
3. I prefer skills over level/classes as well, but when you introduce decay into it, then it becomes a 'grind' type environment if it's not implemented well. We'll just have to see how it's done.
4. Again, I see problems with innovations, but, again, it's a 'wait and see' type thing, as it's too early to comment on its implementation.
7. The whole idea behind money, is that you're assigning an artificial value to an item that intrinsically has no value. I can't say anything for certain, of course, but I don't think any of the developers are economists, so I foresee problems with their vision. Then there was the idea that money from one city might not be good for another, which then becomes a hindrance to explorers, who then have to find something that the city they need to trade in finds valuable. Let's just say that from what I've seen so far, I'm not sure the idea has been fully thought through, though it does sound good on paper.
8. I don't doubt the storyline or the GM participation. I'm doubting the motivation of the average player. They want to see a gradual progression of their effort, to give them a sense of accomplishment for their time spent. Without the 'someone to tell them what to do' aspect, this would be lacking, so the average player might feel a bit lost when confronted with 'total' freedom.