Seriously, why should we, who are not bound to an NDA, not be able to post second hand info that you hear from people under NDA?
I could care less about an NDA which I did not sign but I do want to know what is going on in games so why not start a WikiLeak site for MMORPGs?
Because beyond YOU and your need for self-satsifaction and instant gratifcation there are hundreds of families who's very livelihoods rely on the outcomes of these ventures. If it is so important for you to know right now whats going on in any game, get your checkbook out and invest.
Seriously, why should we, who are not bound to an NDA, not be able to post second hand info that you hear from people under NDA?
I could care less about an NDA which I did not sign but I do want to know what is going on in games so why not start a WikiLeak site for MMORPGs?
Because beyond YOU and your need for self-satsifaction and instant gratifcation there are hundreds of families who's very livelihoods rely on the outcomes of these ventures. If it is so important for you to know right now whats going on in any game, get your checkbook out and invest.
..|..
I think the real issue is posting screen shots and videos, not opinions.
The developers own the intellectual property rights to those screenshots.
It's against the rules here, but anyone on a forum that allows it can say, I'm playing SWTOR beta right now, and it sucks, or it's cool. How can you verify if they are full of crap, or really playing? Adn certainly it's not a breach of any contract or property right to lie.
So yea, the real issue is the screenshots and videos IMO.
Seriously, why should we, who are not bound to an NDA, not be able to post second hand info that you hear from people under NDA?
I could care less about an NDA which I did not sign but I do want to know what is going on in games so why not start a WikiLeak site for MMORPGs?
People will generally agree that most people are stupid. It's almost, but not quite, given. You would have stupid people post second-hand information, that is very likely to change, so that there can be more vitriolic debate by stupid people who hage issues with their ego and need vitriolic debate to make themselves feel better? Call me cynical, but that's the way I see it. Not that you necessarily see it that way, of course, but that this is what I see the outcome of your proposal.
We need more creative, committed developers, less purely business oriented producers, and people who actually enjoy playing roleplaying games in this genre. We don't need something like WikiLeaks. Until folks in the gaming industry once again realise that they are primarily making some sort of functional piece of art and until players once again realise that mmorpgs are rpgs, playing them as such, we're not going to see very much that is positive.
No, we don't need more second hand information or people violating reasonable NDAs. We need what I've said above.
(1)TL:DR must be your way of saying that thinking hurts. Then again, this may explain why it looks like you responded to the post without using your brain. (2) It's not about community, is it? You just have nothing better to do.
Seriously, why should we, who are not bound to an NDA, not be able to post second hand info that you hear from people under NDA?
I could care less about an NDA which I did not sign but I do want to know what is going on in games so why not start a WikiLeak site for MMORPGs?
Because beyond YOU and your need for self-satsifaction and instant gratifcation there are hundreds of families who's very livelihoods rely on the outcomes of these ventures. If it is so important for you to know right now whats going on in any game, get your checkbook out and invest.
..|..
lol let's be honest. companies upholding NDA's aren't homeless people praying for a break in life so they can afford necessities or simple pleasures. these are profit warehouses that are trying to save face so that they're pre-order sales may remain intact or continue to increase and despite the fact of what the game is truly like in the end. the whole "protecting the game from hasty opinion in its vulnerable stages" is a nice euphemism and often true, but good games need not worry about such things. ignorant people will be ignorant no matter what, but people will not ignore your game if it is truly good. it will sustain itself on its own merits and not the on deception of its early stages.
Seriously, why should we, who are not bound to an NDA, not be able to post second hand info that you hear from people under NDA? I could care less about an NDA which I did not sign but I do want to know what is going on in games so why not start a WikiLeak site for MMORPGs?
Because beyond YOU and your need for self-satsifaction and instant gratifcation there are hundreds of families who's very livelihoods rely on the outcomes of these ventures. If it is so important for you to know right now whats going on in any game, get your checkbook out and invest. ..|..
lol let's be honest. companies upholding NDA's aren't homeless people praying for a break in life so they can afford necessities or simple pleasures. these are profit warehouses that are trying to save face so that they're pre-order sales may remain intact or continue to increase and despite the fact of what the game is truly like in the end. the whole "protecting the game from hasty opinion in its vulnerable stages" is a nice euphemism and often true, but good games need not worry about such things. ignorant people will be ignorant no matter what, but people will not ignore your game if it is truly good. it will sustain itself on its own merits and not the on deception of its early stages.
That's just silly. You don't need a Wikileaks for MMORPG to protect yourself from the corporate pirates who are making these games. Just Don't Buy Them Until They Release And Are Reviewed By The Public. It's not rocket science. It's not even science. There's hardly even math involved.
*edit* Also, the games belong to the companies that write them. It's their product to do with as they will. They actually have some rights related to the games. The general public does not. The rights and freedoms come into play when the general public has the choice to pay for the game or not. It's not the game publisher's fault that the general public is unwilling and incapable of exercising their rights.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Nonsense, the companies would still have beta tests, as beta leaks currently exists. We just need a site to collect them all. After all, what interest do I have in what a company wants to keep secret?
They want my money? Well I want full info about their products. Including what went down during alpha/beta testing.
Well guess what? that info is none of your buisness unless you participated, and doubt they care if they lose one sale because of it.
Really, beta/alpha info has absolutely no use to anyone thats not in it, as all that matters to someone buying the game is whats in the game when its released.
If we're paying money for it, it's our business.
Stop. No.
You are entitled to the finished product that you pay for - nothing more. There is only one game where I can think where you had to pay to be in the beta testing (can't recall the name of that right now though) - and even then, only that person who has paid for it should be privy to the information.
You get what you pay for.
Put through the personal paces of my crippled fingers.
This site is not public property they enforce their own rules and the reason NDA breaking is not allowed is because of their partnership with several companies, all of these beta giveaways, advertising, interviews, if they start allowing this and everyone is free to do whatever they want then companies will be less than cooperative with this website.
I like it as it is, I really dont know anyone that I play games with that have not been able to find information on betas if they really wanted, that is the whole point of having a community of friends you play with, this website however is good to have a broad view of everyone else and in such wide community rules must be enforced.
Until you pay a dime for a game you are not entitled to ANYTHING regarding the game, the same way you should not spend a single dime unless you have been given satisfactory information, it is that simple. If your not happy with the NDA of X game, then you should not pay for it.
Seriously, why should we, who are not bound to an NDA, not be able to post second hand info that you hear from people under NDA?
I could care less about an NDA which I did not sign but I do want to know what is going on in games so why not start a WikiLeak site for MMORPGs?
Because beyond YOU and your need for self-satsifaction and instant gratifcation there are hundreds of families who's very livelihoods rely on the outcomes of these ventures. If it is so important for you to know right now whats going on in any game, get your checkbook out and invest.
..|..
lol let's be honest. companies upholding NDA's aren't homeless people praying for a break in life so they can afford necessities or simple pleasures. these are profit warehouses that are trying to save face so that they're pre-order sales may remain intact or continue to increase and despite the fact of what the game is truly like in the end. the whole "protecting the game from hasty opinion in its vulnerable stages" is a nice euphemism and often true, but good games need not worry about such things. ignorant people will be ignorant no matter what, but people will not ignore your game if it is truly good. it will sustain itself on its own merits and not the on deception of its early stages.
That's just silly. You don't need a Wikileaks for MMORPG to protect yourself from the corporate pirates who are making these games. Just Don't Buy Them Until They Release And Are Reviewed By The Public. It's not rocket science. It's not even science. There's hardly even math involved.
*edit* Also, the games belong to the companies that write them. It's their product to do with as they will. They actually have some rights related to the games. The general public does not. The rights and freedoms come into play when the general public has the choice to pay for the game or not. It's not the game publisher's fault that the general public is unwilling and incapable of exercising their rights.
Someone just poured a delicious layer of awesomesauce on this thread. Not mentioning any names, but it rhymes with WizardPhones.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Because leaks break trade secrets, which exist in first place to stimulate innovation by ensuring you have time to derive rewards from it. That it is abused for everything to the detriment of general public is another topic of a much broader scope.
Also, there is no free speech in private places, there is behave or get out.
Seriously, why should we, who are not bound to an NDA, not be able to post second hand info that you hear from people under NDA?
I could care less about an NDA which I did not sign but I do want to know what is going on in games so why not start a WikiLeak site for MMORPGs?
Because beyond YOU and your need for self-satsifaction and instant gratifcation there are hundreds of families who's very livelihoods rely on the outcomes of these ventures. If it is so important for you to know right now whats going on in any game, get your checkbook out and invest.
..|..
lol let's be honest. companies upholding NDA's aren't homeless people praying for a break in life so they can afford necessities or simple pleasures. these are profit warehouses that are trying to save face so that they're pre-order sales may remain intact or continue to increase and despite the fact of what the game is truly like in the end. the whole "protecting the game from hasty opinion in its vulnerable stages" is a nice euphemism and often true, but good games need not worry about such things. ignorant people will be ignorant no matter what, but people will not ignore your game if it is truly good. it will sustain itself on its own merits and not the on deception of its early stages.
That's just silly. You don't need a Wikileaks for MMORPG to protect yourself from the corporate pirates who are making these games. Just Don't Buy Them Until They Release And Are Reviewed By The Public. It's not rocket science. It's not even science. There's hardly even math involved.
*edit* Also, the games belong to the companies that write them. It's their product to do with as they will. They actually have some rights related to the games. The general public does not. The rights and freedoms come into play when the general public has the choice to pay for the game or not. It's not the game publisher's fault that the general public is unwilling and incapable of exercising their rights.
This!! Read this post, for those of you who think you are entitled to the information.
Now for something else:
It's the developer's property to do as it wishes. If it wishes to release it all pre-launch, that's their decision. If they decide to use an NDA, then that's their decision. They. OWN. the. rights. to. their. property. You. do. not. Being a paying customer does not matter. Any company should listen to their customers and keep them happy, as it's up to the customers whether they stay in business or not, but they do not have to.
You are an artist, and some company hired you to design something really special, something that has never been seen before in your field of design. And yes, if it sell very well, as your company believes it will, you will receive a huge bonus on top of what they're paying you.
Now, another employee loves your idea sooo much, that he posts it to all his friends on sites. Another company sees this design on the net, loves it, then designs the exact thing you just spent time and effort on, sells it first, and makes a huge sum from the SAME DESIGN YOU WERE HIRED FOR, yet you see NO profit, no bonuses from the company WHO STOLE YOUR DESIGN IDEA. All because someone else posted your design to show others before you were paid for the work.
The gaming market is huge, hungry for new ideas, and companies do fight dirty to be the next big contender in the gaming industry. That includes hunting the net for ideas.
Do you want YOUR marketable idea in the hands of another company, who will not pay you for your efforts if they can get your idea FOR FREE?
Thought not....
My workplace has an NDA in place for a reason. We've lost an account before, worth over 1.8 MILLION, due to one of our (ex)employees posting info on the net about it. He does not work there any longer, and the rest just missed out on a VERY lucrative account due to someone's stupidity. And bonuses. And the company had to lay off a few people, as well.
See? There can be VERY good reasons for an NDA. At least in this, and many other cases like it, no company wants idiots to reveal anything until it's time. That could cost them money.....sometimes, a HELL of a lot of money.
Why? Every leak would just show it is a WoW clone.
--When you resubscribe to SWG, an 18 yearold Stripper finds Jesus, gives up stripping, and moves with a rolex reverend to Hawaii. --In MMORPG's l007 is the opiate of the masses. --The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence! --CCP could cut off an Eve player's fun bits, and that player would say that it was good CCP did that.
What we need is lawsuits for companies who use misinformation to advertise their MMOGs to consumers, such as the company who had control of Dark and Light. I spent countless hours reading information about that game and when it came to beta testing it was quickly discovered it was a shell of a game they described. Imagine if there was no beta testing and all those people who played it had to pay it? There has to be some compensationn for the value of time (whatever that is to a MMOG player...) and money they invested into the game. We already have enough leaks if you look for them (Darth Hater for SW:TOR, for example ... and I found him out on this website!).
To me a Wikileaks for MMORPGs would be benefitual, however, as there could be more attention to lesser-known companies who have a gem of a product and the leaks could be of a positive nature rather than a purely negative one. However, unless they don't know what the final product will be, the company will most likely already post these kinds of things on their own website and attract the attention of people on websites like these.
I do think there needs to be transparecy when it comes to information about MMOGs. The more is hidden, the more likely something is not quite right and by the time you actually know it they got your money and your credit card information. I don't know if I agree with that scenario.
Comments
the bigger issue is how increasingly business is choking what little there is left in the art of video games--NDA or not.
It's not possible to stop beta leaks. As fast as you shut a site down, another pops up.
Hadn't intended to, but after reading this thread I watched some videos from the SWTOR beta. Looks pretty good.
Because beyond YOU and your need for self-satsifaction and instant gratifcation there are hundreds of families who's very livelihoods rely on the outcomes of these ventures. If it is so important for you to know right now whats going on in any game, get your checkbook out and invest.
..|..
http://www.speedtest.net/result/7300033012
I think the real issue is posting screen shots and videos, not opinions.
The developers own the intellectual property rights to those screenshots.
It's against the rules here, but anyone on a forum that allows it can say, I'm playing SWTOR beta right now, and it sucks, or it's cool. How can you verify if they are full of crap, or really playing? Adn certainly it's not a breach of any contract or property right to lie.
So yea, the real issue is the screenshots and videos IMO.
People will generally agree that most people are stupid. It's almost, but not quite, given. You would have stupid people post second-hand information, that is very likely to change, so that there can be more vitriolic debate by stupid people who hage issues with their ego and need vitriolic debate to make themselves feel better? Call me cynical, but that's the way I see it. Not that you necessarily see it that way, of course, but that this is what I see the outcome of your proposal.
We need more creative, committed developers, less purely business oriented producers, and people who actually enjoy playing roleplaying games in this genre. We don't need something like WikiLeaks. Until folks in the gaming industry once again realise that they are primarily making some sort of functional piece of art and until players once again realise that mmorpgs are rpgs, playing them as such, we're not going to see very much that is positive.
No, we don't need more second hand information or people violating reasonable NDAs. We need what I've said above.
(1)TL:DR must be your way of saying that thinking hurts. Then again, this may explain why it looks like you responded to the post without using your brain.
(2) It's not about community, is it? You just have nothing better to do.
You can probably go to 4chan or some niche forum and find someone who will give out info on upcoming games.
Some people go as far as to host their game sessions on a live feed, but it is annoying trying to find them.
lol let's be honest. companies upholding NDA's aren't homeless people praying for a break in life so they can afford necessities or simple pleasures. these are profit warehouses that are trying to save face so that they're pre-order sales may remain intact or continue to increase and despite the fact of what the game is truly like in the end. the whole "protecting the game from hasty opinion in its vulnerable stages" is a nice euphemism and often true, but good games need not worry about such things. ignorant people will be ignorant no matter what, but people will not ignore your game if it is truly good. it will sustain itself on its own merits and not the on deception of its early stages.
That's just silly. You don't need a Wikileaks for MMORPG to protect yourself from the corporate pirates who are making these games. Just Don't Buy Them Until They Release And Are Reviewed By The Public. It's not rocket science. It's not even science. There's hardly even math involved.
*edit* Also, the games belong to the companies that write them. It's their product to do with as they will. They actually have some rights related to the games. The general public does not. The rights and freedoms come into play when the general public has the choice to pay for the game or not. It's not the game publisher's fault that the general public is unwilling and incapable of exercising their rights.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Stop. No.
You are entitled to the finished product that you pay for - nothing more. There is only one game where I can think where you had to pay to be in the beta testing (can't recall the name of that right now though) - and even then, only that person who has paid for it should be privy to the information.
You get what you pay for.
Put through the personal paces of my crippled fingers.
This site is not public property they enforce their own rules and the reason NDA breaking is not allowed is because of their partnership with several companies, all of these beta giveaways, advertising, interviews, if they start allowing this and everyone is free to do whatever they want then companies will be less than cooperative with this website.
I like it as it is, I really dont know anyone that I play games with that have not been able to find information on betas if they really wanted, that is the whole point of having a community of friends you play with, this website however is good to have a broad view of everyone else and in such wide community rules must be enforced.
Until you pay a dime for a game you are not entitled to ANYTHING regarding the game, the same way you should not spend a single dime unless you have been given satisfactory information, it is that simple. If your not happy with the NDA of X game, then you should not pay for it.
Someone just poured a delicious layer of awesomesauce on this thread. Not mentioning any names, but it rhymes with WizardPhones.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Because leaks break trade secrets, which exist in first place to stimulate innovation by ensuring you have time to derive rewards from it. That it is abused for everything to the detriment of general public is another topic of a much broader scope.
Also, there is no free speech in private places, there is behave or get out.
This!! Read this post, for those of you who think you are entitled to the information.
Now for something else:
It's the developer's property to do as it wishes. If it wishes to release it all pre-launch, that's their decision. If they decide to use an NDA, then that's their decision. They. OWN. the. rights. to. their. property. You. do. not. Being a paying customer does not matter. Any company should listen to their customers and keep them happy, as it's up to the customers whether they stay in business or not, but they do not have to.
Here is the business end of the NDA.
You are an artist, and some company hired you to design something really special, something that has never been seen before in your field of design. And yes, if it sell very well, as your company believes it will, you will receive a huge bonus on top of what they're paying you.
Now, another employee loves your idea sooo much, that he posts it to all his friends on sites. Another company sees this design on the net, loves it, then designs the exact thing you just spent time and effort on, sells it first, and makes a huge sum from the SAME DESIGN YOU WERE HIRED FOR, yet you see NO profit, no bonuses from the company WHO STOLE YOUR DESIGN IDEA. All because someone else posted your design to show others before you were paid for the work.
The gaming market is huge, hungry for new ideas, and companies do fight dirty to be the next big contender in the gaming industry. That includes hunting the net for ideas.
Do you want YOUR marketable idea in the hands of another company, who will not pay you for your efforts if they can get your idea FOR FREE?
Thought not....
My workplace has an NDA in place for a reason. We've lost an account before, worth over 1.8 MILLION, due to one of our (ex)employees posting info on the net about it. He does not work there any longer, and the rest just missed out on a VERY lucrative account due to someone's stupidity. And bonuses. And the company had to lay off a few people, as well.
See? There can be VERY good reasons for an NDA. At least in this, and many other cases like it, no company wants idiots to reveal anything until it's time. That could cost them money.....sometimes, a HELL of a lot of money.
lol troll'd
btw I wasn't advocating for some mmo wikileaks.
no need to attempt to understand what someone writes when you can misinterpret it and then self-fulfill your own rant about it.
shame on me. I should have known better.
Wikileaks is an ongoing CIA/MOSSAD Psycological Warfare operation...NO we do not need a wikileaks for MMOGs!
Why? Every leak would just show it is a WoW clone.
--When you resubscribe to SWG, an 18 yearold Stripper finds Jesus, gives up stripping, and moves with a rolex reverend to Hawaii.
--In MMORPG's l007 is the opiate of the masses.
--The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence!
--CCP could cut off an Eve player's fun bits, and that player would say that it was good CCP did that.
What we need is lawsuits for companies who use misinformation to advertise their MMOGs to consumers, such as the company who had control of Dark and Light. I spent countless hours reading information about that game and when it came to beta testing it was quickly discovered it was a shell of a game they described. Imagine if there was no beta testing and all those people who played it had to pay it? There has to be some compensationn for the value of time (whatever that is to a MMOG player...) and money they invested into the game. We already have enough leaks if you look for them (Darth Hater for SW:TOR, for example ... and I found him out on this website!).
To me a Wikileaks for MMORPGs would be benefitual, however, as there could be more attention to lesser-known companies who have a gem of a product and the leaks could be of a positive nature rather than a purely negative one. However, unless they don't know what the final product will be, the company will most likely already post these kinds of things on their own website and attract the attention of people on websites like these.
I do think there needs to be transparecy when it comes to information about MMOGs. The more is hidden, the more likely something is not quite right and by the time you actually know it they got your money and your credit card information. I don't know if I agree with that scenario.